Effie Trinket reviews The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- (SPOILER TIMESTAMPS BELOW) Effie Trinket and I both offer our thoughts on The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes by Suzanne Collins - the brand prequel to The Hunger Games Trilogy. What is the government even for? What drives evil? Why does this all link to Dominic Cummings and Fireman Sam? All will be revealed.
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(BTW this comment has spoilers for the prequel).
One aspect I loved was Lucy Gray originating the Hanging Tree Song and the song Katniss sings to Rue. In context of the trilogy, the fact that these two songs become symbolic of the rebellion is FANTASTIC, because I think it adds an extra layer as to why Snow would have despised Katniss. Not only was she challenging his way of life but she was reminding him of the only time he felt love towards someone and used those songs as weapons. He had positive and negative memories attached to those two songs but by having Katniss weaponise them against him and the Capitol regime we are given insight and added depth to his hatred towards her. AH I just think it was just a great little addition to Snow's motives/feelings in the trilogy.
Yes! And the fact that Lucy Gray was harvesting Katniss when he turned against her.
Hanna Erftenbeck The little easter eggs like that throughout the book were so nice. Made me feel like I was a part of a secret club or something 😂
I totally agree! I loved that added layer to hatred from snow! It will make reading them so different! I also loved all of the Easter eggs! Like the lamb stew and everything!! I don’t know if I would’ve liked it as much if I wasn’t such an obnoxious hunger games fan 😅. I also thought it was interesting how he mentioned simple things like the date. I can’t recall Katniss ever mentioning knowing the date... idk if that matters, but I thought it was strange how it wasn’t something she cared about.
Andrea Zearley yeah the reaping being on American Independence Day was fascinating and I don’t think it was mentioned before. And there was one line later on the train to 12 where Snow acknowledged to himself that Panem used to be North America and I’m not sure if that fact was ever clearly stated in the trilogy so I appreciated seeing it in this.
And also his dislike of mockingjays as they provide a threat as it is something he can't control.
right, so running away with lucy gray is just snow's idea of fulfilling the cottage core aesthetic
SPOILERS !!
I actually really enjoyed this book. Mind you, the original Hunger Games trilogy was a huge part of my formative years when they came out so reading the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes was a big trip down memory and nostalgia lane for me. But, I actually think Collins' characterization of Snow not only makes a lot of sense but gels well with Katniss' characterization as well. Throughout the whole book, Snow consistently CHOOSES evil, oppression, and ignorance over awareness, morality, and good. We see this exemplified through Collins placing foils like Sejanus, Lucy Gray, and even Tigris in his story. Those characters challenge the ideas of the Capitol and embody morality, fundamental good, and hints of rebellion. However, we see Snow's inner monologue and know that he is, at his core, selfish, self-pitying, disillusioned, and entitled. The other "good" characters serve as an opportunity to radicalize Snow in the opposite direction but they ultimately fail.
In my eyes, Snow at the beginning of the book, is not an inherently evil character. He is a victim of circumstance just like Katniss. I think Collins is trying to encourage us to ask "If we are all born out of circumstances we cannot control, what kind of agency do we have and what change can we create?" Katniss chooses to use her circumstance in her favor and be a force for good for her family, friends, community, and country. Snow consciously chooses to feel bitterness and entitlement for his circumstances and, as a result, feels wronged. He is owed a certain path in life and will lie, cheat, and murder to get there. Anyways, I feel as though Collins is trying to make us understand that heroes, villains, anti-heros, revolutionaries, etc are not just born. We all inherit the social, political, and economic realities of our world but, at the end of the day, we all have agency. I think despite the depressing and bleak themes of the Hunger Games world, this bit is freeing and incredibly positive.
Rant over!! side note: how do I get a mother like Ma Plinth
Very nice observations ✌️
I also loved the book and your view on it was very interessting to read :D
Same!! THG Trilogy holds a special place in my heart as it was the first YA novel that I read that wasn't school-assigned. I agree that Snow, in his core, is condescending, manipulative, privileged, cunning, person. He is the Snake in the title.
"are you, are you
coming to the tree
where they strung up a man
they say who murdered three"
I know that bit is about the original man who got hung but also.. Snow murdered three in this book and him saying that is what caused everything to go down with Lucy Grey 😳
Also I thought Snow's almost irrational dislike of jabberjays was unintentionally hilarious. Makes it so much more satisfying to remember that the Mockingjay brings down his empire in the future.
On the heritage & ethnicity of District 12, I think Suzanne Collins was both implying that many of the District 12 people were of an Indigenous background, but are also Appalachian. She directly says early on that District 12 is in a region formerly known as Appalachia, which is a region of the South Eastern United States spanning the stretch of the Appalachian mountains. Appalachian heritage is multi-racial, the home of Bluegrass music & dance (as shown in the Mockingjay Part 1(?) movie during the dance scene in District 13), and a culture historically held in place by the coal industry & demands of corporations outside it. The region is still greatly affected by poverty and food scarcity, and seen, as Collins describes District 12, the most detested by the rest of the country. Effie's response to District 12 is a response that I myself have experienced from people towards my culture. As a Kentuckian (one of the Appalachian states), I connect so deeply to the representation of District 12 as inheritors of Appalachian heritage and reading Katniss as an Appalachian protagonist as well as Indigenous is, well, EVERYTHING!
I found value in the way Suzanne Collins dealt with Snow as protagonist. She didn't justify his actions but she explained them in a way that made sense to me. I could relate to certain aspects of Snow. It didn't make him any less unlikeable but I found it quite a chilling example of how there's a little bit of the villain and the tyrant in many of us. For instance, Snow's dream of going through university and becoming an officer and obsession with good grades is something I can identify with. I'd like to think I wouldn't do the things he does to get there but it's not that Snow wanted to do these things out of sadism. A message I took away is that yes, circumstances impact choices and we also have agency to make out own choices ... But how many of us would really choose the right thing?
That's something I find so powerful about the hunger games books ...the events seem so farfetched so you think "I'd never do that" but there are elements that are eerily similar to present day and make you consider the corruption in the now
And yeah one could find similarities with this book and the hunger games in terms of the "circumstances pushing people to hard choices" but the difference is Katniss' choices did feel very justified and motivated out of self preservation and protection of others but Snow's was motivated by desire for power and status and money. All the classic villain motivations .... but all these things also motivate most ordinary seemingly good people
Spoilers!
I wanted to point out how it is never confirmed that Lucy Gray is killed. If I remember correctly Snow even wonders what truly happened to her and he probably would have found her body or blood when he was walking around.
Effie's monologue is the best piece of political satire I've ever read :P
hahah I improvised it, so I'm glad it worked for you!
I think there is no problem at all with humanizing a villain. Villains aren't always supernatural beings that exist separately from "normal people". I think villains that are humans with real emotions and experiences are the best and most frightening ones. It reminds us that people are complex and bad people aren't "other" they are US. It's not that we should validate their reasons for being bad at all. But I think by understand why they are who they are makes human society hold a mirror up to itself and see what they can become when the right amount of societal failure and personal choices come together.
It would also be incredible dangerous to view villains as completely other, like "normal" people couldn't become evil. We all can , as you said, if societal failure does enough of its shit to us.
I agree. I think that those who conduct evil for evil’s sake is an outlier while the majority of evil that people practice follows closely along the lines of the banality of evil theory.
Spoilers
I think it's unclear if she died. I think it's likely she was hit, but I think the author wanted to leave it open ended like the girl in the song
I agree! I read it as ambiguous, and was taken back by the reading that it was a certainty. A fantastic scene though
I agree! Reading that part it didn’t even seem obvious to me that he successfully shot her, he was pretty delusional at that point and I read it as him imagining her cry. Rereading the passage, I think he probably did hit her but it doesn’t read as her being dead.
The way I read that scene was that she disappeared like a ghost (allusion to the song/poem) and that Snow did want to kill her (in self-defense of course) but that she tricked him with her snake and escaped to join the Free World. I also inferred this because in the final few pages, Snow says that he doesn’t think about what happened to Lucy and her songs in district 12 and he’d be happy for them to be forgotten. I may be totally off in my reading but like y’all have said, Snow killing Lucy Gray never even crossed my mind.
@@ShivangiBhasin I don't think Lucy grey was ever in their 'own hungergames' I think that he was just being delusional. Nothing Lucy grey does suggests anything different. I don't believe Lucy grey would/could of planted a snake (it would've slivered away) I honestly believe it got there on it's own and snow warped that in his mind to convince himself that Lucy is out to kill him. Also based on her knowledge of Snakes I don't know why she would of planted a harmless one to kill him (the nurse later says that the snake wasn't poisonous and I think this is the moment snow realizes what he's done). I also don't think she'd be singing if she was out to kill him or if she knew he was out to kill her
I do think a deep rooted theme is how people with priveledge feel they have a lot more to lose than those without, even though what they have to lose is more superficial, in comparison and that they see what they have to lose is still more important than those that have nothing. But those that have nothing still have something to lose and as much as he proclaims he is in love with Lucy Gray, his own self survival, like in the hunger games, is worth sacrificing what he is as a person. I also thought it intersting as it seems he doesn't change so much as a character, but at the start he hopes to liken himself to his mother, and by the end he only mentions his father. Personally, I find suzanne collins' writing easy to read, the world of Panem enthralling and unfortunately Snow someone I didn't really care for but couldn't pass up on the opportunity to read more about the world of the capitol and the districts. But a further book to answer all the unanswered questions would be very JK Rowling
Also, do you not think as much as it didn't set up for why he got so evil, it does set up why he hates Katniss specifically so much; a girl, from district 12, singing songs, represented as a mockingjay that he finds so repulsive
I found it interesting that the only keepsake he had left in the end was his fathers compass. His mother's powder and his photos were all destroyed, erasing any connection he would have had for his kind mother.
I understand wanting to look more at Lucy Gray (we forever stan), but what I loved about Collins choosing Snow as a narrator was because how much he contrasted Katniss. He's not as likable as her, he's much more well off. Living through that world as a Capitol citizen was informative to the way that Collins is reflecting on our own. There are definitely lackluster parts in that choice, but I liked it.
I loved all the choices she made to make him obvious as an antithesis to katniss; his hatred of mockingjays, his comfort in underground spaces, his disdain for music towards the end
It would have been so interesting to get Tigris’ perspective imo, as she comes from the same background but ultimately takes a drastically different turn and helps the rebels! In Mockingjay Part 2, we see her helping the rebels by sheltering them in her boutique and that she’s basically turned herself into a tiger lady hybrid (Carol Baskin is shook). Would have loved to see a comparison between the cousins and how they grew apart later on in life.
Yes! I am so interested in what happened to her after
Omg I can’t believe I didn’t realize it was her from Mockingjay! I thought the name was familiar but didn’t make the connection. This is very thrilling, thanks for the comment!
yes! I would've wanted to know what happened between them, how did she become a stylist in the games and then shunned(?)!
I was so surprised this didn't get bought up! I don't really understand why the link is there other than to be an Easter egg for people who remembered her from Mockingjay? I'll have to go back and read that bit again to see if there is any explanation once you know the context
I also thought that Tigrises perspective would have been interesting to hear and would have brought more depth to the plot.
Lucy Gray most likely can’t have died, in my opinion. It’s intentionally left vague, but what convinces me that she survives is that The Hanging Tree survives. I think that song became known in District 12 is because Lucy Gray kept singing it, and with good reason. That’s how it got passed down and how Katniss knows it.
Except it says multiple times through the book that Maude Ivory only needs to hear a song once to know it, and she loved that song. The song would survive regardless, so this isn’t confirmation, or even an indication one way or another. It’s still entirely open ended.
So, Lucy is the Songbird and Snow is the snake. Thats really cool, actually.
And also! The poem you mentioned where "Lucy became lost in the snow " or some such, I was like "oohhhh she did tho, didnt she?"
I find it interesting you didn’t find a message in the book. I took the message as being about privilege and how, even though he had a difficult upbringing, he’s still incredibly privileged as a capitol citizen. I personally thought it was a great metaphor for white privilege in particular
It also was a FASCINATING Insight on how people can be raised into a warped perception of superiority over people. Despite being so badly treated in his life he chose the capital which was the cause of his troubles over and over. And how he is convinced he did things justly and right. I loved it. It was realistic he never would just say he’s a bad guy or think about how he is in the wrong. In his mind he is completely the hero. Doing good. It’s horrible and In his character
This. Also the fact that Lucy was acceptable to fall in love with because she acted “capitol”. The way mixed race people tend to get a bit more of a pass from privileged whites in that they aren’t FULLY other.
It's literally just about Hobbesian/Lock-esque ideals. Not white privilege.
@@ninjaproskills0077 please educate yourself. black people are still killed simply for the colour of their skin, and a select few black people being tokenised into opportunities does not absolve the much greater, systemic racism in every which way. if you're a fan of the hunger games and that fictional world i don't understand how you can think we live in a world where racism and prejudice don't exist
@@ninjaproskills0077 I dont know what world you are living in in which you belive that white privaledge doesn't exist, you are just clearly a delusional racist.
Did anyone notice that in the 4th movie Tigris is the one who helps Katniss and the rebels and states that she used to be a designer for the hunger games but Snow one day decided she wasn’t pretty enough and basically destroyed her life. His own cousin who in this book he seems very attached to. I noticed it when rewatching the movies and am shocked that no one else has picked up on it. It really shows how much Snow has spiraled with age.
Whaaaat? She's the Tiger woman from mockingjay? Ahhh
Idk.. after reading the book I feel like Tigris wouldn’t enjoy being a designer for children in the hunger games. She reminded me very much of Cinna. And you know she was friendly with the rebels. I feel like Snow could have had her killed, but gave her the peace of ignoring her and allowing her the freedom to leave the hunger games and disowning her as part of the family. If it was anyone else who wanted to quit being a designer or who was a sympathizer, he’d kill them... like he did with Cinna.
Andrea Zearley Possibly but her dialogue in the film was literally her saying that she was a designer until Snow decided she wasn’t pretty enough and her face was literally that of a tiger, hinting that Snow did that to her face.
I thoroughly enjoyed this book. I do agree that I wish I could've known more of what Lucy Gray was going through in the games, but I found the earlier parts of the book quite riveting, while a lot of people were uncomfortable with the pacing. This book does leave me wanting more knowledge about the war and about the other games, but it does help me understand Snow's character more... even though it also makes me hate him more. His treatment of the people in his life at the end of the book was despicable!
I really enjoyed the book and found it to be a welcome read during quarantine! A big theme I got from it was how desensitized the Capitol citizens were to the concept of the Hunger Games. Especially considering how new of a concept it was to their society. Even though no one was obligated to watch them, no one was fighting against them. I found it fascinating how the students (in general) had little attachment to their tributes. The tributes were just a school project. There was such a profound detachment there between grades and concrete, life-changing actions - the former being considerably more valuable. And I thought it was very important to see just how easy it was for the people in the Capitol (Capitol children, no less) to think of ideas that would make the Hunger Games more entertaining and less boring... as if the Capitol citizens need to gain something more tangible that directly benefits them - a child's life is not satisfactory. The emphasis on and the value of performance and entertainment (as seen in the Hunger Games as a developing concept and in Lucy Gray as a character) over morality was so thought-provoking, and I was really able to relate that to our world today, specifically the investments so many individuals and corporations have in the entertainment industry, celebrity culture, etc. There were many times throughout the book when the focus was on some form of entertainment (like just describing the actions, no matter how small, in the arena or presenting entire song lyrics or poems), as opposed to really diving into the bigger and more challenging social/political/etc. issues at hand. I thought the book was very clever and had some interesting commentary in that regard.
Lucy Gray wanting to run away with Snow parallels/echoes Gale wanting to run away with Katniss in the first/second book of the trilogy. Interesting too that both Katniss and Snow have both suffered great losses, but go about surviving in very different ways. Sejanus had a very Peeta-like vibe, I thought. Also hints that the Games are already more manipulative than they first appear, as it’s mo way it’s a coincidence that Sejanus has to mentor Marcus.
I loved your review!!! I also realized how this book reinforces the theory that during the reaping, people don't get chosen randomly but the capitol choose who they wanna punish. Because Snow put cameras around the fences, so they knew Katniss was breaking the law and therefore choose Prim to punish her and anyone who thought they could scape. But they
underestimated her and that's what killed the capitol.
Katniss's father was the one who brought her into the woods for the first time. They swam in the same lake Snow's weapon/evidence was hidden. The mine explosion that killed him was not an accident.
Do we think Katniss's mum is descended from Covey people since she and Prim have blonde hair rather than looking indigenous like the others in district 12?
This is my thought too. I even suspected Katniss of not actually being related to them.
I think maude ivory is katniss and prim's paternal grandmother
I think all of the merchant class in district 12 have that coloring, not just the covey. But I 100% think they’re at least somewhat related because her father taught her the hanging tree song, which was taboo and probably not shared often outside of the family.
But in the books it says Katniss' Dad always used to sing so wouldn't it have been him?
I suspected it was her father who was linked to them, being the one who passed music down to Katniss? Also with the trips to the lake... He seems more linked to the covey in my mind. What do you think?
I loved the book, however, I would love to have that scene when Snow kills Lucy wayyyy before and have more information on how Snow became president at the end
How did SNow become president? One word, "poison"
Same!
@@mikaylamason8075 Yes, and we see how he did that to Dean Highbottom. But I wanted to know his life in the University and his internship. I think the part where he got sort of adopted was a hurried way to end his poverty-stricken life.
so many people didn't like the book because they wanted diferent things from the story and its background. I didn't expect anything, was glad to read what authot decided to show us. I don't think it is important to know how US has fallen, just the reason being global warming and natural dysasters is enough, whatever she would write, we could find desatisfying because in our minds it was different. Her choise to show that Capitol was really hurt during war and long after, how it damaged people's perspective is quite intresting, for me Snow did increasingly became worse human being, he didn't start snow clean, but giving his situation he tried his best to survive, and manage his expectations, which is such hard psychological thing (talking from experience). The difference is - we knew who he will become, and we vitnessed his turning point, so honestly after Lucy Gray and Sajanus it didn't matter how he would have risen in ranks, there was no way back. For me the last 100 pages was so hard to read, I delayed it and read it slowly, knowing that bad things will happen, which could not be avoided,but still not knowing how the story is going to turn. So the hunting part of Lucy Gray was so chilling to me, suddenly all of his worst qualities came together and he showed his true colours for everyone to see including himself, sure he reasoned with himself, but for longest time him being nice to a girl who doesn't have anything was his saving grace (to himself and his appearance to others). It is great writing, the book is about him growing, finishing school and becoming adult, everything is just extra and I am glad about it. Sure there are extra questions and wonderings, but I ranther get this little snippet and not random tweets like J.K.Rowling does destroying set images of characters and the world.
I mean, maybe it's just my brain, but the tributes in the zoo reminded me of the situation on the southern border here in the US - where kids are literally being put in cages.
HEY! enjoyed the zoo insight massively, esp. after speaking about it in the chat
Definitely - has made me want to re-read my books on seeing etc !
Not that long ago, they had Africans on display at the worlds fair that included mock villages. Afterwards one of the African Pygmies was just displayed in a cage with Chimpanzees at the Bronxe Zoo. All because they were trying to 'prove' Darwin's theory of evolution.
ruclips.net/video/nY6Zrol5QEk/видео.html link to video mentioned in my last comment
Most of the names she uses are from Roman history as well. She reminds me of Anne Rice in the way that she researches history and incorporates it into her fiction to make it grounded and relatable.
I think it's especially interesting considering the Roman names are mostly people from the capitol (basically). People from other districts either have names related to what their district does (e.g. from District 1 (luxury) Glimmer, Gloss and Cashmere or from 11 (agriculture Thresh (as in to thresh grains) or Twill from 8 (textiles)) or just "normal" English names or names that seem made up - possibly even evolved versions of English names.
Leena your videos are killing it recently !!
Aw thank you!
I also wished we got Lucy and Sejanus’ POVs! At the ending, I thought Lucy survived or, at least, it made more sense to me that she survived because Snow couldn’t track her once she drowns out all the sound with the mockingjays.
That Fireman Sam reference just threw me right back
you're welcome!
I also very much enjoyed it.
*Norrr-MAN!!* 😆
I thought the reason why the games weren't well covered was because there was next to no camera presence in the tunnels
I'm still waiting for a powerful and compelling argument that the seam is Indigenous. If we consider the history of Appalachian mining it tells a VERY clear race story. British workers had the better jobs, and the most dangerous work was done by migrants from Italy and Eastern European. These 2 ethnic groups were rigid in Appalachia. Deeply tied to the 'coal miner' myth is 'rebellion', as all around the globe, miners strikes compelled mass change. It seems unspoken that District 11 can work as allegory to slavery, so it seems far more logical for me to read a historical contextuality in District 12. The seam are Eastern Europe/Italy, just like the Appalachian coal miners were. Olive skin is extremely common in people with roots from this part of the world. Mila Kunis is exactly the description of the working class miners: olive skin, light eyes, straight black hair. And she is Eastern European. The physical descriptors combined with the historical contextuality paint a far more likely picture that the seam represent the Eastern European and Italian workers that worked in Appalachian coal mining.
Thinking about this further, I would also suggest that District 13 works as a better allegory for the terrible treatment of Native American's. Considering the civil war links, it is from this period that I personally contextualise Panem's structures. In this timeframe it was not 'olive' skin that was associated with Indigenous people. The census would use the word 'copper' to describe their skin. Copper... like a coin? Like... Alma Coin? Further, it was during this time that America basically told Native American's to stay out the way in exchange for peace. No taxes, their own land. We know that 13 struck a similar deal with Panem. Of course, a deeply upsetting history of Native American reservations exists, including the use of these reservations as a place to dump nuclear waste. Reservations have become infested with nuclear waste and because they are not treated with the same health standards of American land, it is legal to leave these places nuclear wastelands. Further still, we know that smallpox eradicated a large portion of Native Americans, and within District 13 - smallpox kills an entire generation.
Also Peeta as Peat (a great observation) strengthens the idea that the 'merchant' classes of 12 represent the British/Irish early immigrants.
Love this reading of District 12-especially because Collins is explicit about the district formerly being Appalachia. It's clear in their coal mining, obviously, but also in their connection to folk music, ties to holistic medicine, multi-ethnic and multi-racial history, and subjugation via the coal industry & generational poverty.
loved the talk on politics!!! it becomes a lot deeper and food for thought that way. I do not really plan to read it so this was great!
I love the smell of books and the feel of the paper too. It's why i refuse to read on an electronic device.
loved hearing all your thoughts on this!!
i defo see your point about backing out of the world a bit and getting more info on Panem before and how we got to that point, I wasn't actively hoping for it so don't think I was as bothered about it not being there but i would also love that background info. also agree on the pacing issues!! it really didn't need to be THAT long
i overall liked it a lot though and am thinking a lot about the political philosophy behind it and the Hobbes vs Locke thing. I liked that it was a subversion of the villain origin story we're used to and basically gave us Snow's past and how it informed him but made the point that he still actively made the choices that led to him becoming the tyrannical leader of the trilogy - Tigris still grew up in the same circumstances and didn't hold his worldviews.
**slight spoilers here** my theory is that Katniss is descended on her dad's side from Maude Ivory - they mention Maude can remember any song after hearing it once and her dad was the one who taught her the songs and was musical. Not sure if I actually wanted it confirmed in canon but that's what i'm going with (also Maude Ivory makes a point to say she liked the name Katniss which i'm taking as another nod 😂)
I thought the same think when reading the book (that Maude is the paternal grandmother of Katniss)! I think it’s definitely true because Collins isn’t about useless ties, you know? With all of those in there, it can’t be a coincidence. It’s crazy to think about Katniss and Snow being related in another world! And I think that definitely adds to his hatred of her, she reminds him of the covey with her songs (even though she’s not like them in any other way).
Snow reminds me of Julius Cesar. Not many know Cesar was just like Coriolanus. Came from a rich family that lost it all, status, wealth, and respect. As a child he had a drive to get it all back at any cost and did it through a military route and we all know how that turned out. Very successful...for awhile then splat. However, Snow also reminds me of Katniss, just trying to survive, cares deeply about family, and is willing to do anything to make it in the world they were born into.
It might amuse you to know that the suffix "-anus" is quite common in Roman names of adopted sons (emperor Augustus used to be called Octavius and after Julius Caesar adopted him, he was renamed Octavianus).
Cheers to me keeping a straight face as our teacher explained "the -anus was a gift from the adoptive father to his son".
Omg 😆😆😆😆😆😆🙌
Catching up on old videos and gosh the point about power and empathy is so good. The effie speech, yesss Leena.
I never had the specific thought of what the government is there for- to manage and support the population, whatever it looks like? Or maintain an idea of what their perfect status quo is?
I agree, it's not something we're encouraged to think about! I've always assumed it's the first one you mentioned, but as I've grown older I've realised that's probably naive and we all need to sit down and have a conversation about what it is and actually what we'd like it to be.
This is what I needed, I loved this book, and I need to stress over a 'fictional' dystopia for a change... it took me back to a more carefree version of myself.
"just girly thoughts" so on point, really love your rhetoric and how you put your point across! So much amazing insight in one video(throughout)! The monologue is fantastic! And not gonna lie really glad I don't have to read the entire 500 pages now, thank you
The Effie section is so iconic wow. Such a funny & intelligent riff. Love it!
I absolutely fell in love with your channel after finding your previous video and I’m so glad I can watch this now 😭💛
Also, I highly recommend the “Uglies” series, it’s also a dystopian future scape with a lot of interesting themes of what it means to be happy and what true freedom is
Also, I would LOVE for the next book (if there are more to come) to be from Tigress’ perspective - given that she’s Snow’s cousin, then becomes part of the prep team for the Hunger Games, and finally helps hide Katniss and her team in her costume shop in Mockingjay. Her story holds so much promise and I’m putting this out here so the universe (and Suzanne Collins) can manifest it into reality!!!
Just finished reading and raced to finish watching this video (I'd watched as much as I could when I was about half way thru the book).
Definitely felt that 500+ pages was excessive- some parts really seemed to lag like the whole section after Coriolanus becomes a peacekeeper. I would've loved to see more allusions to pre-war and the foundation of Panem. I do think that the most gripping part of the book was the section where Lucy Gray and Coriolanus are going to escape District 12.
After reading this it makes sense that Snow hates Katniss so much since she is a constant reminder of the Lucy Gray (a district 12 contestant, possibly related to the Covey, sings The Hanging Tree). Also his hatred of District 13 later on in the book as a symbol of the loss of his family's financial stability and privilege.
I’ve just had a thought about Katniss’ family, bearing in mind the fact that I haven’t yet read this book (thanks, uni finals), and that I skipped the heavy duty spoilers! Is there meant to be a (somewhat heavy-handed) implication that Katniss’ family are partly descended from the travellers, because of Prim and their mother’s blonde hair, and the family’s knowledge of music/the Hanging Tree song? Especially since they’re a group that defies easy categorisation and (from what I can tell) have a bit of a subversive air about them, albeit with some serious internalised prejudices? Or am I reading into things without literally having read said things...?
Yeah I also think katniss might be related to the covey (travelling people) because of her knowledge of the songs and of the lake in the forest, though I think she d be related to them on her father side maybe as I seem to remember he was the one who taught her these things. I did a bit of digging around the Internet and people think katniss might be maude ivory s granddaughter
@@elenas9832 Everdeen? More like EverGREEN. I am totally on board with this fan theory.
okay i'm deffo writing this classics and the hunger games video now...so much classics
oh bless you trying to say panem et circences
@@EllenJones do it! lol and help me, what am latin
@@leenanorms let me finish my diss first *stares at graphs of literal latin* (but seriously, could this be my way in to make everyone realise how great classics is? unlikely but I WILL TRY)
I had to rewatch the beginning portion a couple of times because I kept getting distracted by the amazing CURLS
I really loved your thoughts on this book !
On a less serious note - the hair definitely suits you ❤
I really loved this book, but I wish we got more on how Snow and the other gamemakers developed the games over the years, and how the Capitol and the culture of the people who live there evolved. I love Collins' world-building and I hope we get to see more of it in the future (i.e. please give us another prequel and please put young Mags in it)
Omg a book from Mags perspective would be awesome!
Thank you for making this video! It's the whole reason I rushed to get hold of the book and immediately came here as soon as I was done!
Totally agree the ending made this book. I was getting very tired of the love story but the references to Snow 'owning' Lucy Gray and 'territory' made me hopeful that I wasnt supposed to be invested. I also wish we had more world building but for me more so at the end to link the stories together (wish we knew why Tigris ended up helping the rebels). I found the Easter eggs a bit corny, the world was similar enough that I thought all the references to Mockingjays and fire were overdone - although things like the lamb stew and the lake were quite fun. I agree the lyrics were unnecessary, the only useful ones were those of the Lucy Gray song and the hanging tree.
I'd love to know if the political interpretation would be so strong if it wasn't for the current climate but it definitely speaks to the motives of those that govern and why government exists.
im a huge hunger games trilogy fan and i had mixed feelings about this book, it wasn't really what i expected but i also didn't know what to expect. i enjoyed it overall though and i think Snow's character development and internal monologue vs the way others viewed him was really interesting though as you said having it from his perspective wasn't always fantastic for the pacing.
one of the main things that i took away from this book is about how the war with the districts was never really over they just changed the landscape in a significant way.
there are no winners in war but i don't think war is about winning or losing. war is ultimately about control and power. when we look at the western intervention in the middle east a lot of people would say that a lot of it was about oil, which is probably right but why? because the people who control resources have the most power, they can create scarcity or abundance and choose who gets the privilege or misfortune of either one. nowadays war is also about profit, selling arms, creating new weapons technologies, controlling borders, and fearmongering/terrorism. war is one of the most profitable industries and the world's richest countries are also the world's biggest arms exporters and nuclear states.
it's about using fear, violence, poverty and scarcity to control people instead of bombs and tanks. it's about finding a way to make good people, normal people complicit in massive atrocities and to normalise them and even make them a celebrated part of culture. in our own countries we use these things to maintain power and control and we invade and exploit foreign countries to do the same.
the whole thing of separating ourselves from other animals, creating zoos, hunger games and protecting the white race links in with colonial/imperialist values. we distanced ourselves from other animals so we could exploit and control them, we dehumanised indigenous peoples so we could steal their land, we racialised people so that we could exploit their bodies and erased their culture to disempower them. human is a political identity and it's synonymous with whiteness, which is a capitalist cisheteropatriarchal white supremacist creation
i think both the prequel and the original trilogy very much mirror the real world as it is and has been with the threat of climate change, war, institutional abuse, oppression, capitalism, governments, pagentry and celebrity etc but it feels like ballad of songbirds and snakes is more focused on the purpose of war and conflict whereas hunger games is like war is bad. my eyes are going funny from looking at the screen now so im done rambling and i cba rereading to check this is coherent but hopefully it actually seems relevant to the book(s)
I'm really interested in your review, but I'll have to wait until I've finished the book!
I’m so grateful for the thought and work you put into making these videos! Really enjoyed your commentary on the book. (And the final looks was great too)
I think the point of the book is to explain why Snow hated Katniss so much that it blinded him to the real threat to his power - Coin.
**SPOILER**
What I really didn't like is that at the end he got everything he wanted without having to pay a price for it. He rationalizes all his actions by telling himself it was his only choice. As I was reading I kept remembering his death, how he would die laughing as the world he built collapsed. It seems like he never really had to pay a price for his power, he got everything by telling himself it was his only choice. I think the end of this book broke my heart the same way that the end of 1984 did: no matter what we do, we all lose to power
God I love your videos so much, they really hit hard every time? So much respect for you, it's a joy to watch and consider these things.
One word masterful! I love the thoughts and the depth of thinking that you go into Lena. Thanks for opening my mind and making me reed more
No one else I know has read this book yet so I haven't been able to discuss it with anybody, so it feels great to hear that you agree with me! I also found it a little difficult to find an overarching message in this book. I was disappointed with several things in the book, one of which being the end of Lucy Gray's story. The ending seemed very abrupt and odd. I agree that we could've gotten there much sooner
This video is fantastic. I also cringed at every 'Snow lands on top' mentioned in the book (at least once a chapter.. for those who haven't read!). I don't think Sejanus' POV would've added much narrative as he is pretty open about his past and present feelings. I was also really hoping for more explanation on how the Capitol/Districts set up came to be. More viewpoints from within the Capitol during this time to compare with the Katniss era would have been welcome also. The zoo and the arena gave us more of a Games perspective than the daily goings on of Capitol citizens. I'm glad I read this but I agree that we were left in a middle ground with no macro/micro speculation!!
I'm very cautious about villain stories, that try to humanize them. I have no problem with them being humanized. What I have problems with is it being shown that their eventual decisions are justified. I'm not sure I will read this - but I'm happy you covered it.
Just brilliant. The depth and commentary of your reviews are always appreciated ❤️
Omg your hair suits you like this!!
Brilliant video!! I just finished “reading” the audiobook.
I'am interested to know what do you think about the katniss mentions , i think it amazing when the said "I think I'll go dig up some katniss since we got the fire going on anyway" , like the rebellious action that actually started before katniss and petta won , but then katniss brought the fire, also snow said " i thought they weren't ready" he did not thought that the revolution will be that fast.
And also earlier in the book when snow and lucy gray talked about how she said " if the capitol wasn't in charge.." and then clerk carmine found katniss and lucy said " little to early yet" .
this video is everything 🤗 so many good thoughts here about the book. you have me rethinking my original takeaways
Now I'm gonna get the audiobook from my library!!
Yes! the audiobook was my jam too but listening to that guy speak the lyrics of the songs was rough, if you do it check out this girl's version, it really brings it to life - ruclips.net/video/WTiROMfcKiI/видео.html
Another great video! 😄 Made me re-think the ending, and see it in a different light.
You make me want to buy the book and read it so I can watch all of this 😭
Great video! The audio is a little low, but I could still listen as long as I stopped eating :') Found your channel through the previous Hunger Games video and I'm hooked!!
We actually don't know if Lucy Gray is dead ☹
This is just such good content, absolutely loving it!
I’m not sure this book works without first having read The Hunger Games trilogy. I’d be really interested to get the perspective of someone who hasn’t read the trilogy and reads the two series, once every book is out, in the order of the events within. While I really enjoyed Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, I can’t quite parse out how much of that enjoyment came from the book itself rather than from my love of the Hunger Games series. ;Ballad felt a bit contrived compared to the original story.
I watched kayley hyde's video and she reads the book while focusing on the consumer/ marketing perspective. Its really interesting hearing her talk about the book while focusing on that perspective than snow.
I'm so excited for this, oh my god. And I just finished reading the sequel yesterday so perfect timing
This was a great much-needed revision break!
For me, the overarching theme of the book was continuous war, that people can’t self-govern without dissolving into cannibalism, and that order, even a tyrannical one, is necessary to keep them in control, to keep them scared. I mean there’s a reason Collins shares the quotes by Rousseau, John Locke, and Hobbes; she was clearly trying to position Snow in that age-old debate - not necessarily to resolve it for good but to show what circumstance lead people to come to their conclusions about human nature and how they must be organised.
We learned about "Bread and Circuses" in Rome during my history class, and the Hunger Games was the first thing I thought of.
Also, I feel like today we could say "Bread and Celebrity Gossip" instead, lol
The book seemed to be shaky on its decision to rely upon the Snow we saw in the films or the Snow seen in the books. The film had an opportunity to look outside the perspective of Katniss, and used it to further flush out Snow. A powerful example is Snow's justification of the HungerGames to the Head Game Maker: Hope. Dr. Volumnia Gaul seemed like she might have been slightly edging Snow in this direction, yet the explicit connection remains only in the film. This brings up a question of the relation of a character from the book to the film. Are they the same? Can their motivations be shared cross-medium?
In Shakespeare's play Coriolanus, Volumnia is the name of Coriolanus' mother who tried to make her son a consul.
Not me finally being able to watch this after bookmarking it 3 years ago 😂
Came here (way late to the party) to add that the zoo - and it's purpose as a show of colonial power - further connects to the Roman 'panem et circenses', and thus the capitol, quite elegantly.
The "circuses" in ancient Rome were gladiatorial combat and games in which slaves, prisoners, criminals, etc. fought *each other* and *animals* for show - often to the death.
As gladiatorial shows evolved they came to show off exotic animals such as crocodiles and elephants, and people(!!!!), from conquered lands in order to demonstrate Rome's domination of the known world, much like the purpose of zoos in the colonial period, and much like the capitols power over the districts.
In either zoos, Rome's circuses, or the capitol, those that were part of the ruling system, could come and marvel at how "exotic", "savage", or "unusual" the outsiders were (I.e. animals and people) while celebrating their power over them.
And by connecting the three together, it adds to the themes presented in the books regarding dehumanization, power, and the fetishization of the two.
I love that frustrating sigh: "This is so depressing." > That's me while reading the Hunger Games, which I did last week. So depressing..
Hey. Since the release of this prequel I've seen a LOT of people upload the complete audiobook onto youtube, and when you go and look in the comments it's everyone being so happy it's online for free and the rest of the comments are peoples 'bookmarks'. I feel so angry about this, particularly after having seen all your video's about publishing and what goes into making a book and how many people actually work on it and how reasonably this book is actually priced. I can get the paperback for 16 euro's, and that's the average amount you pay for books. It's not crazy expensive, and I just don't understand why people think it's okay to just post audiobooks online of new releases/books that aren't supposed to be free and available for everyone. I don't know if this is something that you want to talk about, or something you knew about. Just wanted to let you know. And maybe for other people reading this. It's NOT okay to read books like this, please just buy the book, get it from the library, get an audiobook subscription.
Definitely report the videos. I think it's okay to post audiobook versions of books that are in the public domain or maybe classics that have already sold loads of copies but new releases? It's a bit off.
@@rhythmandblues_alibi public domain is definitely a different story! But yeah, I do report all of them.
Does anyone have thoughts on the theory Maude Ivory is an ancestor of Katniss
Your hair looks amazing!!!
I would have liked the perspective of some of the other characters - if we had a few Lucy Gray chapters there may have been an opportunity to find out about the Panem’s deeper history, such memories of her Covey parents telling stories about the old days and what happened to the world. Sejanus, Trigris, Dr Gaul, even some of the Capitol students or other tributes. A change in perspective, I think, may have made for a richer story rather than Coriolanus just being a git all the time. However, I did enjoy the story and found most of it quite captivating.
WHAT IF TIGRESS KNEW CINNA AND KNEW HOW SNOW HATED MOCKINGJAYS SO THATS WHY CINNA DRESSED KATNISS AS A MOCKINGJAY
omg i love the spoil-o-meter!! its so cute
I think the districts were segregated 1 to isolate them and cause hated and division between them and 2 into races that are stereotypes eg the native and romani people being District 12 mining, in nature and poverty
11 is black people who do agriculture. A throw back to slavery?
3 is technology I think these people are Asian from the way they're described and the stereotype of being smart. Ect
14:40 I love the third HALF of the book... it makes so much mathematical sense 😂😅
Loved the Effie Ending!!
My absolute favourite thing from this book was taking the lyrics and making convincing folk songs out of them... That may have been it though.
So snows name must have been given to him in the war right so maybe the fam always wanted him to be in power.
Had this in my recommended and I was like: "Cool! I'll watch this next!"
Then my sister came into my room and said: "I've ordered the new hunger games book for you."
I now have mixed feelings.
So, I don't know about other people's interpretations, but I've always felt that the Capitol would be situated in Salt Lake City thereabouts, given what we know about the placement in geography of where it might be in the previous books. Now, if you want to speculate that SLC is the location of the Capitol, there is something you should know. Because SLC was founded by Mormons, other LDS people would know this, "Snow" is a VERY old LDS/Mormon family name, like very old, there were Snows in SLC since the beginning of the settlement. Because I've always had the association of the Capitol being SLC, having the name Snow for someone based out of the Capitol never felt strange to me, because it is a legitimate family name that exists even now. Now, of course, I don't know if that was Collins' intent, or if she even knew about that when she wrote it (who knows, there are Mormons everywhere in the US and Canada, hahaha, or at least have family and friends that are), maybe she would know this small detail and did it anyways
Also, from being someone with family in Utah, and especially after my last experience visiting SLC, I could see SLC being the Capitol, hahah, just as it is now, hahaha, of course, not all the people there are like that, but it is a bubble and people can be very self-absorbed there and materialistic
No no no this book has more questions than answers. Snow is Tigres cousin how did Tigers end up being a stylus in hunger games years later. I say, to make a name for herself also to get away from snow. Also how was Lucy living in Candices house 60 years before Katniss did, are they related? too many coincidence. A other thing The book never said snow killed Lucy, he shot at her but he don’t know if he hit her.One other thing why is Lucy’s Gray’s name in the book 5000 times.
This was brilliant esp the Effie ending 🤌
What's the full name of that purple book about zoos and animals? Would really want to read it!
This was so good!
ugh LEENA. ffs this is my bath viewage and now I have to weigh up leaping out after 15 minutes or not watching at all. UGH WHY IS MY LIFE SO HARD