I'll say, something you haven't touched on is just the meta-rule that, in general, when a videogame gives you a challenge (for example, a skill check) afterwards it rewards you. It tells you that the challenging path is the good one, that there's rewards there. Not Disco Elysium. Skill checks there are just skill checks. You can very well win a skill check in order to do a *horrible* thing and go down a really bad path (like shaving your mustache)
That's a brilliant point, that one completely went over my head (and I did shave the beard too). Sometimes they take this to an even sadistic level, like with the unopenable door.
@@EphemeraEssays the unopenable door isn't really what I'm describing though, that one is a check that breaks another meta-rule all together: that challenges *are* actually challenges, and not auto-wins or auto-losses. What I'm describing is the game putting a challenge that leads you to a path you would never go down otherwise, just simply because you feel like the game is designed to lead you down that route by placing challenges in your way. You know the saying, "you know you're going the right way if you find enemies in front of you"? That's what I'm talking about. This way, the game breaks the fourth wall and tells you directly: take responsibility for your own decisions, treat what you see as if it was real.
@@katethegoat7507 Ahhhh I see, absolutely! That's definitely a big meta-rule, and replaying the game recently made me realise just how often this happens. Can't add this to the video now, but I hope you don't mind if I pin your comment!
Two early skill checks in the game demonstrate this perfectly imo: -Failing the skill check to sneak out of the hotel. you run away and flip off the manager, but as you’re running you accidentally crash into a woman in a wheelchair. you take minor health damage, but everybody just feels sorry for you. so sorry, in fact, that’s the manager decides to lower the debt you owe him. -passing the skill check to throw the boule. two men are playing a ball game in a crater and you take one of their boules and launch it into the ocean. it makes you feel good, but for all intents and purposes, you ruined their game just to feel good about yourself.
The boule is such a good one! I really like how (at least in my game) I found another ball in a gym for them to use, went to hand it over to them like I solved a puzzle, and they understandably go "What? No this isn't a boule ball, we can't use this, you cretin"
While I do agree with your overall thesis here (mostly), I did find the whole section about paying off the repairs of your room kind of funny, because I got it sorted out on the first day by just *yelling* at Joyce to give me enough money to pay for the room, with no real consequences for it. There's a lot of moments like that, where you can bungle or even outright *fail* your way into a solution, and to me that's because Disco Elysium is as interested in failure as it is success. The game actively encourages you to act like whatever brand of weirdo you choose, and living by the consequences of your weirdo actions. Red checks, ones that can't be attempted again, are pretty rare, and retries on regular skill checks are pretty easy to come by. It's not a game about failing early but overcoming your failures through hard work and effort, it's an ultimately hopeful game about being a fuckup that fails constantly but keeps trying *anyway.* That was my takeaway, at least.
Yeah, that part was what threw me off as well. On my first playtrough i didn't really struggle with it, i just asked joyce and was like "oh, okay. So this is how you're meant to do it" and do it on any other playtroughs ever since. Except for the one where i wanted to roleplay as a "fuck garte" hobocop and Kim actually forces me to rent the room, just gives me the money and teaches me about the pawnshop. Which is the second part that bothered me about that segment. While he says that you only find spare change in drawers, the very building he shows has a lot of items that pawn for significant sums. Another "ah i see, so this is how you get the money in this game" moment.
I think the thought "The Precarious World" really speaks to that last point. To quote it: (Spoiler space) "How *not* to lose? It is impossible not to. The world is balanced on the edge of a knife. It’s a game of frayed nerves. You’re pushed on by numbers and punitive measures: pain, rejection, and unpaid bills. You can either play or you can crawl under a boat and waste away -- turn into salt or a flock of seagulls. Your enemies would *love* that. Or you can fight. The only way to load the dice is to keep on fighting." If you take the thought that's all about "how not to lose," it straight up tells you "you *will* lose, but keep going anyway." This is one of those thoughts that speaks to the player as much as it does to Harry, like the bunker door you can't open. At one point, even, there *is* a little boat on the beach, and you can point it out to Kim, suggest to use it as shelter, something Precarious World _explicitly tells you not to do._ (And, of course, "losing" the game makes you do much the same, as you join the drunks in the fishing village.) Disco Elysium basically screams that "failure" is only when you give up. If people want to save scum, they can, but it doesn't necessarily produce a "better" experience-as Sorry Cop proves, failure can be just as addicting as success. Rather, Precarious World asks you to live with the failed rolls more, because without them, without that dichotomy between fail state and win state, we would have no real reason to proceed in *anything.*
I have to disagree on calling Sorry-Cop a 'punishment'. It negates the damage from failed skill checks, which is the second best passive effect of any copo-type after art cop's morale healing and xp bonus on conceptualization passives, and can be triggered by copo-type based events like the cockatoo book in the library. Most copotypes get their value from increased skill cap, and while sorry-cop does give a pain threshold cap boost, It has enough innate value that conceptualization explicitly says it is a good dual-type.
That's really interesting. My thought was that the Sorry Cop felt like a punishment emotionally, especially because the skills seem to almost make fun of you when it first comes up. The fact that, if you stick to it, it becomes a strength rather than a weakness is a great turn, and looks like another really nice bit of storytelling. Good point!
@@EphemeraEssays I think it's a bit of both, because YES mechanically you are healed by failed checks, but psychologically? That's indicating that Harry is just somehow reveling in wallowing in failure. Yeah, mechanically it's amazing, but I also felt like there was something to be learned from that. You can't just keep saying "Oh man, I fucked up. I'm such a piece of shit. I'm sorry!" You actually have to take your lumps, get back up, and actually do better with your life. Of you can be a Sorry Cop, none of the other copotypes are going to be jealous of it anyway.
@@EphemeraEssays Honestly i felt the same way as you did in my playthrough. It feels like a biting commentary meant to subvert a "good karma" type players' expectation of emotional reward for abiding by our as a players' notion of social ettiquette. We learn that apologizing and owning ones' mistakes makes one more likely to be seen as empethhatic and responsible, so being negged by the games' narrator for this is...hilariously refreshing to me.
@@HumanisticJones It's like the drug system - it is mechanically rewarding, and when you wonder where the addiction mechanics are - they're right there. You are addicted to higher stats. And giving them up is an ordeal. It is not easy. You will suffer. But taking the easy route doesn't mean you will be better in the end.
@@EphemeraEssays I got sorry cop on my first playtrough as well but it never felt like punishment or like it was my own failure. From the very start of the game, it was made very clear that harry IS a sorry failure even before the player takes over, so it felt quite logical and in-character to me. I never really thought of harry as my "avatar" in the game world but as just another interesting, quirky character i wanted to find out more about.
I suck at selling DE to my friends cos I can't explain it, but I call it an 'incremental' game. It feels like it progresses SO slowly, to the point where days are ending and you feel like you've done jackshit except accidentally become a facist or smthing, but by the last Shivers check before you leave the island - EVERYTHING you did adds up and gives you a solid 97% of passing.
There's a theory I've encountered that, especially with roleplaying games, there are three types of players. First, there are "gameists", those who see the experience as something that's supposed to be won or lost with the appropriate amount of luck or skill. Next, there are "simulationists" who want a game that mimics a slice of real life as much as possible to create an experience of immersion. Lastly, there are "narrativists" who want the game to tell a compelling story. All three are legitimate approaches to playing a roleplaying game, and there are games that appeal to any of them. And no individual necessarily is purely only one of those three categories; you can be a gameist with respect to one game and a narrativist with respect to another. Disco Elysium is perfect for a narrativist, but if you're a gameist, it will frustrate the hell out of you. Some games, like visual novels, don't really even pretend to be the kind of thing a gameist will want and gameists know to avoid them, but to a gameist who hasn't researched this one, Disco Elysium might feel like a bait-and-switch. With its stats and challenges, it feels like it should have gameist appeal, but it intentionally sabotages players who approach it with that mindset. As you point out in the video, the game doesn't fight fair. If you can shift your mindset when playing this game to a narrativistic one, that sabotage becomes part of the story and the game works brilliantly. If that's not the kind of experience a player wants (and that's not for everyone!), they should steer clear of this one.
I love this. I'm a gameist at heart who tries as hard as possible to be a narrativist (even got an art degree) and Disco Elysium and Outer Wilds are the games that made me glad to have a foot in both worlds. Games have the potential to be absurdly intricate and the content can be easily lost if you're not familiar with their language, but more and more the language of games is actually multiple languages at once. I believe we are in a tipping point where games will start to be more respected as art and Disco Elysium is at the forefront of it because of the way it can juggle its game with it narrative aspects. As the video said, Disco Elysium is a game more revered by those who actually finished it because it's so much more than just for gameists where the gratification is instantaneous.
I feel like im generally a "gamerist" and I loved this game. in fact I really dont play any visual novels. But a friend who loves visual novels played this game and really didnt like it frustrated him, and he quit. In fairness to your rule I may be outside the normal "gamerist" as I really like hard games like dark souls etc and this is a hard game but def in a different sense
I tend to appreciate all 3 categories you defined, on the gameist side though I actually thought disco was excellent. It requires a different mind set to play the game as a gameist but you can find it very rewarding. I have created multiple "builds" over my 6+ playthroughs. While I wouldn't say this area is the games greatest strength, it is there. A key to enjoying is as a gameist though is to not treat it as a power fantasy. The world is unforgiving, and sometimes a little unfair, but you can build and optimize in order to get the kind of story you want. Say you want to really dig into people, go purple skills. Want to know as much about the world as possible go blue, ect. The game will reward you for building into any of these areas. You can "win" but you need to change the definition of "winning" from the tradition victory conditions of "complete everything and beat the bag guy" to more of a "I built a character who played their role as well as I could build them to do so. Interestingly enough, trying to play the game as a "gameist" can lead to you creating characters you may not have thought of otherwise giving you a narrative experience different than that of role playing the character as "you" or other architypes you might think of.
This is much more apt for actual roleplaying games, as the CRPG versions tend to lean heavily towards 'gamism'. Naturally enough. Note that the mere presence of a story does not make a narrativist game, the *game mechanics being primarily made to interface directly with the narrative* makes a narrativist game. By 'interface directly' I mean 'explicitly choose the story', not just ludonarrative cohesion. In fact ludonarrative cohesion is probably a less narrativist and more simulationist thing. If a game makes you undergo a tense bomb-defusing sequence that's not narrativism, if it pops a screen saying 'hey do you want to successfully defuse the bomb? It'll change the story like this...' that is narrativist. A Visual Novel is probably the closest thing to a narrativist computer game, even more so than TTRPGs, at least once you've played it a few times (having choices that are, just slightly obscured 'which story arc do you want') it lacks the aspect of *creation*, in that you aren't writing the story, only experiencing it. Likewise almost all video games shy of... something like The Sims, Dwarf Fortress, that kind of thing? Actually, The Sims is a quite balanced version of this triad, for a computer game, though leaning narrativist. It's simple enough to master that an intermediate player is making choices based primarily on the narrative they desire. Simulationist computer games are very rarely 'rpgs' mechanically speaking, because you can interact with computer games in ways other than rolling dice. ARMA or KSP are highly simulationist games. ... 1:25 Actually the zombie game is a pretty good example to narrativism, and its subversion an example of a game being *less* narrativist. It's tacitly posited as a story choice, even though there's no actual reason it has to end up this way. On some level the subverted version is still a narrative choice, but the layer of abstraction makes disocciates it from a conscious player manipulation of the story and more into 'an event that happens'. Though purely as written it's not making it more gamist or simulationist, but just more random. @PSPbrtag "I love this. I'm a gameist at heart who tries as hard as possible to be a narrativist (even got an art degree) and Disco Elysium and Outer Wilds are the games that made me glad to have a foot in both worlds." Outer wilds is not really Narrativist because you do not mechanically interact with the story. It's a simulationist playground with a modest amount of gamism. In fact, you don't really know what the story is to begin with, you're discovering it, rather than manipulating it, as you play. @Keldorah "Disco Elysium is for gameist role-players what SpecOps the Line was for gameist FPS players." I mean... SpecOps was pretty gamist. Again, 'having a story' is not the same thing as narrativist. Narrativist Spec Ops might, for example, see you as a player chosing to take on madness points as an explicit mechanic (perhaps in order to win fights, but it also means you can't avoid causing crises, creating a reinforcing downward spiral)
I think it's much less about luck and much more about your combination of skills plus the choices you make, and then a little bit of luck. You get bonuses for approaching things more methodically, observing carefully, asking the right questions. A white check might be 40% chance when you first look at it, but if you hold off and observe or ask some more first, you might find suddenly it's 75% because of +3 "asked about the thing/saw the thing"" points, without even investing any new skill points.
I was thinking about those meta rules you laid out and realized Pathologic checks the ones you mentioned. Thinking about it, Disco and Pathologic are quite similar. Both games have this downtrodden messiah of sorts who dumpster dives, solves mysteries and abuses his authority to disgusting degrees.
This is one of my favourite aspects of the game, personally. It's first few hours are genuinely quite harrowing, but they make the moments where you do improve yourself and you don't simply retreat into the void as you did before so much more rewarding. Great video!
I have absolutely no clue how such a low view video got into my algorithm, but I'm glad it did. Love the editing and suberb audio quality for such a small channel. Keep doing what you're doing, it's great!
I played as sorry cop at my playthrough and I liked every single minute of it. While I was at it, i definetly had been reflecting my own mistakes with people, and it resonated with me on a higher level. I dealt with the story as sort of "redemption arc" for Harry, and it felt like Harry was on a right path at the end of the story. What a beautiful game
I had a pretty successful first run of the game tbh, it took me a while to get the body down but it got done and i solved the case, missed some stuff so I played again. I passed that 3% skill check on throwing up first go which felt incredible
That must have been a totally different experience, I haven't even considered how that first playthrough must feel if you get really lucky with the skill checks
@@EphemeraEssays The systems reminded me a lot of playing dnd so I may be more primed to accept some bad rolls as well. I can 100 percent see how it would be discouraging to get bad rng early game tho especially if you're more accustomed to traditional video game mechanics
@@EphemeraEssays It really depends a lot on what your skills are too, and your choices. If you happen to have a lot of Logic, Perception, Visualization etc you do *much* better on puzzles and questioning people for example. And you can add bonuses to skill checks by just asking the right questions and observing carefully.
One of the best examples of video games as a legitimate form of artistic expression. Beautiful game I've recently completed my first play through and its quickly secured a spot in my top 5 for best games ever made
I really like the point I've heard somewhere: usually in video games if you fail a quest you just miss a piece of content, but Disco Elysium actually accounts for fails as something intended, and you go on with your playthrough (and that's brilliant). In a way, it is a game about fails and an eventual redemption, which happens even if you mess up in the process (and oh boi you will!). That being said, for me that didn't work that well: in my first playthrough I chose to put almost all my points into Inland Empire, have fun on my own and ignore other characters. That led to some interesting stuff, but by the end of the game Harry was as delusional and lonely as he was at the beginning. Also I missed a lot of content, but that was my fault because I guess I was trying to see how far you can go into your Inland Empire. That, however, amplified the redemption at the end of my second playthrough, where I tried to make things right, bond (and dance) with Kim, etc. So though you can't fail the game mechanically (failing a check never leads to "game over", and often gives you some fun content), you can fail it metaphysically by being a self-centered prick in denial :) Or at least that means you should come back later and retry it. Anyway, I really appreciate that you dissect very concrete (and at the same subtle) aspects of the game! With Disco Elysium it's easy to fall into talking about more abstract themes, but understanding how it achieves its effects on people requires a more focused perspective (like the one presented in your video).
I like that taking a side is important. Being a non thinking centrist avoidant of conflict resolves nothing, and only serves to promote the status quo. As the ideological goal posts move around, you are discouraged from saying "uhh whatever's in the middle is fine, as long as I am not a target of criticism and don't have to take a firm stance on anything." Very cool. I like that a lot.
Absolutely! It does feel really disappointing when games see the "perfect non-confrontational" option as a reward, like you're supposed to be satisfied by finding out the secret choice that makes the choice meaningless.
Disco Elysium is a game for a certain type of person who is not likely to play games in the first place. (I know multiple people who the story, writing, and philosophical bent of the story and game would strongly resonate with, but don't play games..much like the characters within the game itself.). I barely play games anymore myself, but luckily I played it, and loved it! A masterpiece.
Disco elysium was one of the first games I played after about a 20 year break. Trying to find other games to move onto is hard as the obtuse nature of it was engaging making others since seem a bit hollow
It is really difficult to find anything that equals it. You may be interested in Planescape: Torment. It's one of the inspirations for Disco Elysium, with similar gameplay, and despite it's age holds up incredibly well
"What about the struggle to come?" "Harrier will stand with the people. Harrier will stand with Revachol." "..." "Remember, the party never surrendered."
Dude, I thought this video was one I've been sleeping on by a big creator. But I just realized you're only 3 videos in. Salute for the quality, I really want to see more of your work!
When I played this game I stopped for a long time. Then I decided to declare that "I would beat this game without save scumming so that I would actually beat it". Not alot of games force you to overcome something like that.
Personally I was never bothered about these aspects about the game, and didn't view them in at all the same light as you. It was refreshing to have a game that was more like an actual tabletop roleplaying game in structure. Instead of expecting and being disappointed the game didn't follow the cookie cutter format of most games, I enjoyed the rare change of pace. Most of the time I find the all paths lead forward so no choices matter kinds of games pretty worthless, and I wish we'd get more games like Disco Elysium.
Very good content. For me there was a specific moment I felt really hopeless in this game and it was awesome, I'll write it below but spoilers: -It was when you find your car in the ice. Since Harry forgot his identity and was crearly fucking up his job, I decided to play as professional as possible, with all his quirks but no drugs, alchool, finding all the clue, trying to help people around, being supportive ecc ecc... classical good guy character. but while doing this, tales of Harry's drunken antics continued to surround me, reminding me of what a failure I was, of all the staff I lost (memory included), but deep down I knew that if I remained focused by the end of the game it could have been a new beginning for Harry. Then I found the car... and the sheer realization of the damages and costs made me genuily a bit nauseated. Even if I catch the killer in an hour it was still a colossal fuck up and that point I just passed the bridge, I didn't even had a clue on how close I was to find it. I know that by the end you can get a positive ending, but in that moment, on the bench with kim I really felt hopeless and it was awesome that the game can convey such emotions
disco elysium is a game that made me feel like not a protagonist, but just another citizen of the city,, there is no hero, no backing off from your bad deeds, characters remember the shit you said or the good stuff you did, you're just another human circled by other humans, there is none of that bs of guaranting your win everytime bcs you're the player, i love this game to death
I think your videos are very promising and unique!! The focal point of audience feedback is so small yet so original. I don't think anyone else would have discovered these in this angle.
All I did was save, redo and retry. Eventually I understood the skillset upgrade and the options and what clothes to wear. Best game I have played in a long time, it is different and that is what I am grateful for.
This is the work of a philosopher, recognizing the fundamental points where the game make us feel the way it did, congrats i found it extremely well tought
Nice work! I finished the game some time ago in 3 sessions cause I enjoyed it so much. Friends that I have recommended the game to have dropped it after just a few hours, even though they seemed to enjoy it. This video explained a little bit why that could be. The algorithm has really recommended me some gold here. I subscribed because I saw how small this channel still is, excited for more.
Great video! I just finished the game and I didn't have much time to analyse it in my head but you're totally right. Disco elysium intentionaly makes you think like you're doing terribly even tho you follow the expected path and it really makes for a very unique experience
Wow, rarely do I stumble upon content that manages to say something new about Disco Elysium. And yet you've managed to do it! Congrats, this is a really good video with some very original and valuable ideas^^
You really put into words what I couldn't put my finger on with this game. I've never finished it but have attempted it twice because I find it fascinating, and watching your video makes me want to take a third crack at it.
Great essay, Precise and to the point. But I don't think sorry cop is for punishment, it's more of a call-out to player behavior, players tend to appease the npcs necause they don't want to be extremists or because they want to be nice, and the game makes fun of you for that. But it's also an encouragement to play differently, the thought even makes you lose less points of morale and health for failure, it's clearly a way for the game to tell you meta-narratively to take risks and behave differently. Can't wait for more essays from you
That's true, punishment may have been the wrong word. It is true that it feels like one though, based on the reaction I've seen from my friends More to come!
Good video, although i would mention that collecting trash isn't really a trap because only talking makes time pass, so you only waste like 2 minutes inserting the trash in the machine. It's definitely almost completely useless, though, and it does make it all feel more hopeless.
I played this game for the first time recently and I was kinda stunned at how close to my TTRPG sessions the skillchecks were. I messed up a bunch of easy checks but somehow managed to get the body down and not throw up on the first try. It is exhilerating passing a hard check and hilarious flubbing an easy one. Yes it can be frustrating but then again? The character you're playing doesn't really deserve to be the cool hero. He's a pos who has to deal with the consequence of his action. I mean... it is great fun but if people were told this one thing: "you are not the hero of this story. You're playing a shitty person, a cop, an addict, a douche." They would have a different way of getting into it. The same way when you tell a new Dark Souls player that they have to be prepared to die a lot. It changes your expectation and prevents being thrown or insulted.
I'm in the process of playing the game right now, and I never had a sense of looming dread hanging over me when it came to my money problems. I was excited at the idea of a special dialogue choice with kim where I have to either beg or convince him to sleep in his police car, because Garte would have kicked me out of the hotel by then. Garte gave off huge "I am so done with your shit.." vibes that I assumed there is no way he would ever let me stay at the whirling in rags if I didn't pay for the damages. Strangely enough though, I was so efficient at hoarding money and lucky enough that I internalized a thought that helped me pass a skill check with Joyce. I had the money I needed to pay for the damages on day 1 and I had 40 Real left to spare as well. From that point I found another solution to the constant 20 real you have to pay each night to stay at the whirling, so money didn't become a problem late game either. In other words, I'm both really lucky and I have a way of looking at stuff that makes my eyes light up and want more of it, when things go south :P
i seem to have had such a different experience to what you describe here. when you ask joyce for money she will just pay your dept. i fucking loved her for that! and i got the body down on day 2. but after day 1 i stopped playing for a while because i felt there was a timer running out to solve the case at a certain day and i felt like i couldn't do it. so, for me it wasn't the money that was percieved as a problem but the feeling that i wasn't accomplishing anything and time was running out. when i failed some checks in the beginning i was awed by how easily kim interviened and saved me which made me love him so much right from the start. a very interesting video! i never thought that making you feel inadequate on day 1 was coscious choice by the game developers.
Maybe our experience with RPGs is different but I barely had anything to do by the evening of day 1 on my first ever playthrough Oh shit, the Hades background music is a nice touch
Storing the dead body in a fridge? Kim just put it in the car off screen in my playthrough, makes me feel like I missed something key or that there are more differences than I thought with the Nintendo Switch version...
This was something I definitely did on my first playthrough last year, but I couldn't get it to happen for the footage. I'm playing on PC, so maybe it was removed?
No difference in the versions, just different options you can choose. You'll always end up with Kim driving the body off(i think), but if you do some specific checks and dialogue you can find a freezer to temporarily store the body, making it easier to find the bullet.
I've never done the fridge idea, either. (I'm playing the PC version.) Putting it in the car actually takes it away so that you can't examine it later. Putting it in the fridge saves it so that you can examine it before you send it away. ****SPOILER ALERT******* My preferred way if getting it down is shooting the buckle. That way you can do the examination right away and don't have to involve ... other parties. You can either get some lucky rolls or savescum your way through it.
I played on Nintendo switch and got the fridge. Not on my first play through of that bit, though, because the game really makes you think you’re crazy for thinking there’s something else.
@@hoesmadx2469 I don't think you'll get the quest to refrigerate the body if you already find its secrets on first try. It's a fun side quest, stuff such as Garte's reaction if you ask if you can store the corpse in the Whirling's fridge...
did a build that was most like myself for my first run. finished in it maybe 4 days playing it non-stop. my favorite game ever i think. however i dont believe i'll be replaying it any time soon.
The first time I played Disco Elysium I was sad and frustrated, so my first couple of hours in the game were rough, specifically because of how hopeless it feels at first, the dialogue as well. I'm glad I decided to try again some other day because this game is incredible, it has become one of my favorites.
Great video ! Continue doing essays because you do that very well ! You point to these little things I've felt while playing Disco Elyseum but couldn't really put words into. Thanks !
Strange I couldn’t set it down finished it as soon as I could. I felt so enraptured in it’s world that I accepted it’s rules. They felt natural like a part of another world. It was a part of the whole the story they were giving me.
I had the same experience on my first playtrough as well and think thats probably the best way to approach the game. Surrender and curiosity. Accepting the premise and seeing where it leads, what story it tells you. Finding out what kind of person the main character is, what kind of place revachool is. Starting the game as a detective who lost his memory was perfect to put me in that investigative mindset.
Luckily before I played this gem I knew from researching without spoiling myself this game was made to fail stuff and playes best if you have some really good and some really bad stats. This information is key, I think. Whomever you encourage to play Disco Elysium give them this one advice!
For me, playing this game is easy because I know that even when I fail I'm just walking down a different path the author's and developers crafted with just as much care as the others. It might not be how I wanted to story to go but I'm more than willing to see how it ends
When I first played Disco Elysium, I chose the options that were the most narratively interesting, and it rewarded me for it. When I gave it to my boyfriend to play, he didn't enjoy it partly because he was trying to do things 'right' and conceal his amnesia.
That's quite interesting to hear. On my first playtrough i was just trying to find out about Harry and the world and quite afraid to mess things up. But my first impulse to do my best was to be honest. Harry couldn't remember a thing, so that's what i told everyone who asked. Trying to conceal that seemed like a surefire way to mess up and get in trouble. And as everyone seemed quite helpful, understanding and encouraging, especially Kim, i felt confirmed in my choice.
Amazing video, what an excelent analysis! I loved the mechanics of Disco Elysium and watching this video I realized how the game plays with you while you're playing it and thinking you know how things work in its world. But you don't (on the first play). I hope you create more videos. Congratulations for this amazing work!
After reading the title of the video and watching it with my thoughts, my thoughts were very different. I wonder if you did to us what disco elysium did? :D if so you're really good dude
Those who can't remember the struggle? Dude, the struggle will be with me always. It'll be more persistent than the Force. Though maybe, as one of the people who bounced off it within the first few hours :p . Took a pretty long break playing other games before I decided to give it another go 😅😅
Loved that they built up a world so similar to ours but so alien you cant use your knowledge from our world. You play as a person with lost memories but you really have no knowledge about this world and you need to learn everything to be able to use/refere it... and its works so well in the first time. You can build up the world around you to make like you are a big joker, a mysterious supernatural cop, a swindler, a rockstar, a classic noir detective or a dirty bad coop. You can take political stands, learn complex scientific part of the world and all these doesnt matter at the end really. This how to react part was realyl storng in the first playthrough, especially because you know nothing. If you play it nicely even that you are a police officer will surprise you (and then when you learn being a police officer in this world is not exactly equal than being a police officer in ours). So you can start to making up theories about you got attacked, your car got stolen, you got drugged...stc just to take you off the case. And these are all slowly collapsing while you discover how bad was you are. And here you can take a stand if you feel this need to be deffended or take another turn and of course most of the people just back off. Later when you know all of these and you just build up with an aim of become one other you go with that.
Definitely! I can't remember the last time a game allowed you this wide range of possibility to roleplay different characters, and it's so rewarding that it encourages you to on later playthroughs to make up a new personality to play as.
I totally missed the point, because what I learned from Disco Elysium was that Red and Yellow Skills are OP, which unironically made me go to the gym and improve my life.
I'm 'only' about 19 hours in, and 3% finished, but I feel that this is a game that requires multiple play throughs. Epoch Philosophy did a great analysis of the game and its existentialist concepts - the smile, the amnesia, politics, history, revolutions - the subject creating its own identity. Yr take I can fit in there with this analysis, along side it, because existentialism is essentially metaphysics. What is essence in the first place, as in, existence before essence? That's metaphysics in a nutshell. U take Harry and create his essence after he's literally thrown into an existence, that just happens to be the game's environment. The game unabashedly plays with this idea of what it means to be in this world and how to create your identity in response to that. No silly optimism or self help references. Hopelessness is the very basis of the game's existentialist leaning.
That's a fantastic point, another developer could have easily came out with a simplistic "optimistic" angle that would ring hollow and ignorant in the reality of this world. I'm glad they didn't do that. I have not seen the Epoch video on it, need to check it out!
I never got the Sorry Cop copotype in my playthrough. The apologies and wallowing in self-pity didn't call out to me, outside of a few comedic moments. What I tried to do was make things right - move on, do the investigation, and become a communist oracle of the apocalypse.
Yeah I have a friend who hit that first day wall and just couldn't continue. Just the oppressive despair, constantly being told he was shit and that the world itself wasn't much better really turned him off. But I just love this game so much, even if the ending is a bit disappointing every time. Mechanically it's one of the most interesting RPGs I've ever played, and I love the fact that there is basically no combat. You don't just go around beating up random thugs in back alleys like you would in most RPGs, violence is considered the worst outcome in most situations.
Oh yeah, the ending and the solution of the case kinda sucks. It feels so out of left field and unrelated to what you did before. It makes it quite transparent that the case is just an excuse to be curious, ask question and explore the world (and Harry). But it sure works very well for that.
I disagree. I can understand that DE gives me Measurehead as a racist and the boy's room as a commie, but I have no understanding of what these words actually mean, because people keep redefining them around me all the time. So I don't use Social Concepts while gaming. I also feel free to beg for money in this game. Aside from Evert. That cheap bastard can eat his chair. Fuck it, I got big bank from the old lady that taught me about the pale. Not that I understand how this affected the political plot. I was a radical centrist who listened to everyone, but found no one's solutions as ideal. Okay I watched it till the end now and hearing that summary made me tear up, because I ofc was a sorry cop as well and I soon became an Art SuperCop, because it was my answer to this circumstance. Thank you for recapping and reminding me off this journey. And especially of how it felt at the beginning. on my first 2-3 20min attempts before my actual full playthrough. I love Voliotion, IE and Concept
SPOILERS!! The video essay is pretty good, however I had a pretty different experience, this probably depends on what abilities and dialog options you choose and your luck. The cop types I was recognized for were the superstar cop and the art cop. In the end I went for "Actual Art Degree" but didn't develop the superstar cop thought "Some kind of Superstar" (although looking back it would have been funny). Perhaps next time I might go for Some kind of superstar, although being an art cop was pretty satisfying as well. I painted the town red! But you could also argue that being an art cop is the worst, like the description says, lol. I didn't struggle with the same things you described: I had plenty of money - to the point that I even had the ultraliberal thought, but I didn't develop it in the end. I was unsure about the ideologies as they were presented, I hesitated between moralism and ultraliberalism but didn't commit to either like a true moralist. Taking off the body was actually easy for me. The thing I failed a lot was convincing Titus to tell me stuff (I even committed suicide with game over twice... the second one was just over the amusement of the dialog), because I had the Authority of 1 as I played a thinker archetype . Also I failed to lift the barbell twice and couldn't try anymore like a true nerd. I actually stopped playing for a few weeks and returned later to finish the game due to not being sure how to convince Titus to talk. After coming back I just kept investigating and managed to find some plot points and also managed to raise my authority to 3 with thoughts and items so I could roll a success with Titus. The endgame was actually very satisfying and I got the best ending. But to be honest I never felt like I was "winning", it was quite the struggle, that much is true.
This is a great video. And the game was great, I loved it for these reasons cuz like you said it put me in the shoes of Harry. I am Raphael Ambrosius Costeau
The only way to load the dice is to keep on fighting.
I'll say, something you haven't touched on is just the meta-rule that, in general, when a videogame gives you a challenge (for example, a skill check) afterwards it rewards you. It tells you that the challenging path is the good one, that there's rewards there.
Not Disco Elysium. Skill checks there are just skill checks. You can very well win a skill check in order to do a *horrible* thing and go down a really bad path (like shaving your mustache)
That's a brilliant point, that one completely went over my head (and I did shave the beard too). Sometimes they take this to an even sadistic level, like with the unopenable door.
@@EphemeraEssays the unopenable door isn't really what I'm describing though, that one is a check that breaks another meta-rule all together: that challenges *are* actually challenges, and not auto-wins or auto-losses.
What I'm describing is the game putting a challenge that leads you to a path you would never go down otherwise, just simply because you feel like the game is designed to lead you down that route by placing challenges in your way. You know the saying, "you know you're going the right way if you find enemies in front of you"? That's what I'm talking about.
This way, the game breaks the fourth wall and tells you directly: take responsibility for your own decisions, treat what you see as if it was real.
I still remember winning the skill check with the petanque ball, and watching Harry throw the ball into the ocean lol
@@katethegoat7507 Ahhhh I see, absolutely! That's definitely a big meta-rule, and replaying the game recently made me realise just how often this happens. Can't add this to the video now, but I hope you don't mind if I pin your comment!
@@EphemeraEssays absolutely don't mind!
Two early skill checks in the game demonstrate this perfectly imo:
-Failing the skill check to sneak out of the hotel. you run away and flip off the manager, but as you’re running you accidentally crash into a woman in a wheelchair. you take minor health damage, but everybody just feels sorry for you. so sorry, in fact, that’s the manager decides to lower the debt you owe him.
-passing the skill check to throw the boule. two men are playing a ball game in a crater and you take one of their boules and launch it into the ocean. it makes you feel good, but for all intents and purposes, you ruined their game just to feel good about yourself.
The boule is such a good one! I really like how (at least in my game) I found another ball in a gym for them to use, went to hand it over to them like I solved a puzzle, and they understandably go "What? No this isn't a boule ball, we can't use this, you cretin"
While I do agree with your overall thesis here (mostly), I did find the whole section about paying off the repairs of your room kind of funny, because I got it sorted out on the first day by just *yelling* at Joyce to give me enough money to pay for the room, with no real consequences for it.
There's a lot of moments like that, where you can bungle or even outright *fail* your way into a solution, and to me that's because Disco Elysium is as interested in failure as it is success. The game actively encourages you to act like whatever brand of weirdo you choose, and living by the consequences of your weirdo actions. Red checks, ones that can't be attempted again, are pretty rare, and retries on regular skill checks are pretty easy to come by.
It's not a game about failing early but overcoming your failures through hard work and effort, it's an ultimately hopeful game about being a fuckup that fails constantly but keeps trying *anyway.* That was my takeaway, at least.
Yeah, that part was what threw me off as well. On my first playtrough i didn't really struggle with it, i just asked joyce and was like "oh, okay. So this is how you're meant to do it" and do it on any other playtroughs ever since. Except for the one where i wanted to roleplay as a "fuck garte" hobocop and Kim actually forces me to rent the room, just gives me the money and teaches me about the pawnshop.
Which is the second part that bothered me about that segment. While he says that you only find spare change in drawers, the very building he shows has a lot of items that pawn for significant sums. Another "ah i see, so this is how you get the money in this game" moment.
I think the thought "The Precarious World" really speaks to that last point. To quote it:
(Spoiler space)
"How *not* to lose? It is impossible not to. The world is balanced on the edge of a knife. It’s a game of frayed nerves. You’re pushed on by numbers and punitive measures: pain, rejection, and unpaid bills. You can either play or you can crawl under a boat and waste away -- turn into salt or a flock of seagulls. Your enemies would *love* that. Or you can fight. The only way to load the dice is to keep on fighting."
If you take the thought that's all about "how not to lose," it straight up tells you "you *will* lose, but keep going anyway." This is one of those thoughts that speaks to the player as much as it does to Harry, like the bunker door you can't open. At one point, even, there *is* a little boat on the beach, and you can point it out to Kim, suggest to use it as shelter, something Precarious World _explicitly tells you not to do._ (And, of course, "losing" the game makes you do much the same, as you join the drunks in the fishing village.)
Disco Elysium basically screams that "failure" is only when you give up. If people want to save scum, they can, but it doesn't necessarily produce a "better" experience-as Sorry Cop proves, failure can be just as addicting as success. Rather, Precarious World asks you to live with the failed rolls more, because without them, without that dichotomy between fail state and win state, we would have no real reason to proceed in *anything.*
“MONEYYYYYYY!!!!”
I have to disagree on calling Sorry-Cop a 'punishment'. It negates the damage from failed skill checks, which is the second best passive effect of any copo-type after art cop's morale healing and xp bonus on conceptualization passives, and can be triggered by copo-type based events like the cockatoo book in the library. Most copotypes get their value from increased skill cap, and while sorry-cop does give a pain threshold cap boost, It has enough innate value that conceptualization explicitly says it is a good dual-type.
That's really interesting. My thought was that the Sorry Cop felt like a punishment emotionally, especially because the skills seem to almost make fun of you when it first comes up. The fact that, if you stick to it, it becomes a strength rather than a weakness is a great turn, and looks like another really nice bit of storytelling. Good point!
@@EphemeraEssays I think it's a bit of both, because YES mechanically you are healed by failed checks, but psychologically? That's indicating that Harry is just somehow reveling in wallowing in failure. Yeah, mechanically it's amazing, but I also felt like there was something to be learned from that. You can't just keep saying "Oh man, I fucked up. I'm such a piece of shit. I'm sorry!" You actually have to take your lumps, get back up, and actually do better with your life. Of you can be a Sorry Cop, none of the other copotypes are going to be jealous of it anyway.
@@EphemeraEssays Honestly i felt the same way as you did in my playthrough. It feels like a biting commentary meant to subvert a "good karma" type players' expectation of emotional reward for abiding by our as a players' notion of social ettiquette. We learn that apologizing and owning ones' mistakes makes one more likely to be seen as empethhatic and responsible, so being negged by the games' narrator for this is...hilariously refreshing to me.
@@HumanisticJones
It's like the drug system - it is mechanically rewarding, and when you wonder where the addiction mechanics are - they're right there. You are addicted to higher stats. And giving them up is an ordeal. It is not easy. You will suffer. But taking the easy route doesn't mean you will be better in the end.
@@EphemeraEssays I got sorry cop on my first playtrough as well but it never felt like punishment or like it was my own failure.
From the very start of the game, it was made very clear that harry IS a sorry failure even before the player takes over, so it felt quite logical and in-character to me.
I never really thought of harry as my "avatar" in the game world but as just another interesting, quirky character i wanted to find out more about.
I suck at selling DE to my friends cos I can't explain it, but I call it an 'incremental' game. It feels like it progresses SO slowly, to the point where days are ending and you feel like you've done jackshit except accidentally become a facist or smthing, but by the last Shivers check before you leave the island - EVERYTHING you did adds up and gives you a solid 97% of passing.
There's a theory I've encountered that, especially with roleplaying games, there are three types of players. First, there are "gameists", those who see the experience as something that's supposed to be won or lost with the appropriate amount of luck or skill. Next, there are "simulationists" who want a game that mimics a slice of real life as much as possible to create an experience of immersion. Lastly, there are "narrativists" who want the game to tell a compelling story. All three are legitimate approaches to playing a roleplaying game, and there are games that appeal to any of them. And no individual necessarily is purely only one of those three categories; you can be a gameist with respect to one game and a narrativist with respect to another.
Disco Elysium is perfect for a narrativist, but if you're a gameist, it will frustrate the hell out of you. Some games, like visual novels, don't really even pretend to be the kind of thing a gameist will want and gameists know to avoid them, but to a gameist who hasn't researched this one, Disco Elysium might feel like a bait-and-switch. With its stats and challenges, it feels like it should have gameist appeal, but it intentionally sabotages players who approach it with that mindset. As you point out in the video, the game doesn't fight fair. If you can shift your mindset when playing this game to a narrativistic one, that sabotage becomes part of the story and the game works brilliantly. If that's not the kind of experience a player wants (and that's not for everyone!), they should steer clear of this one.
I love this. I'm a gameist at heart who tries as hard as possible to be a narrativist (even got an art degree) and Disco Elysium and Outer Wilds are the games that made me glad to have a foot in both worlds. Games have the potential to be absurdly intricate and the content can be easily lost if you're not familiar with their language, but more and more the language of games is actually multiple languages at once. I believe we are in a tipping point where games will start to be more respected as art and Disco Elysium is at the forefront of it because of the way it can juggle its game with it narrative aspects. As the video said, Disco Elysium is a game more revered by those who actually finished it because it's so much more than just for gameists where the gratification is instantaneous.
I feel like im generally a "gamerist" and I loved this game. in fact I really dont play any visual novels. But a friend who loves visual novels played this game and really didnt like it frustrated him, and he quit. In fairness to your rule I may be outside the normal "gamerist" as I really like hard games like dark souls etc and this is a hard game but def in a different sense
I tend to appreciate all 3 categories you defined, on the gameist side though I actually thought disco was excellent. It requires a different mind set to play the game as a gameist but you can find it very rewarding. I have created multiple "builds" over my 6+ playthroughs. While I wouldn't say this area is the games greatest strength, it is there. A key to enjoying is as a gameist though is to not treat it as a power fantasy. The world is unforgiving, and sometimes a little unfair, but you can build and optimize in order to get the kind of story you want. Say you want to really dig into people, go purple skills. Want to know as much about the world as possible go blue, ect. The game will reward you for building into any of these areas. You can "win" but you need to change the definition of "winning" from the tradition victory conditions of "complete everything and beat the bag guy" to more of a "I built a character who played their role as well as I could build them to do so.
Interestingly enough, trying to play the game as a "gameist" can lead to you creating characters you may not have thought of otherwise giving you a narrative experience different than that of role playing the character as "you" or other architypes you might think of.
Disco Elysium is for gameist role-players what SpecOps the Line was for gameist FPS players.
This is much more apt for actual roleplaying games, as the CRPG versions tend to lean heavily towards 'gamism'. Naturally enough. Note that the mere presence of a story does not make a narrativist game, the *game mechanics being primarily made to interface directly with the narrative* makes a narrativist game. By 'interface directly' I mean 'explicitly choose the story', not just ludonarrative cohesion. In fact ludonarrative cohesion is probably a less narrativist and more simulationist thing. If a game makes you undergo a tense bomb-defusing sequence that's not narrativism, if it pops a screen saying 'hey do you want to successfully defuse the bomb? It'll change the story like this...' that is narrativist.
A Visual Novel is probably the closest thing to a narrativist computer game, even more so than TTRPGs, at least once you've played it a few times (having choices that are, just slightly obscured 'which story arc do you want') it lacks the aspect of *creation*, in that you aren't writing the story, only experiencing it. Likewise almost all video games shy of... something like The Sims, Dwarf Fortress, that kind of thing? Actually, The Sims is a quite balanced version of this triad, for a computer game, though leaning narrativist. It's simple enough to master that an intermediate player is making choices based primarily on the narrative they desire.
Simulationist computer games are very rarely 'rpgs' mechanically speaking, because you can interact with computer games in ways other than rolling dice. ARMA or KSP are highly simulationist games.
...
1:25 Actually the zombie game is a pretty good example to narrativism, and its subversion an example of a game being *less* narrativist. It's tacitly posited as a story choice, even though there's no actual reason it has to end up this way. On some level the subverted version is still a narrative choice, but the layer of abstraction makes disocciates it from a conscious player manipulation of the story and more into 'an event that happens'. Though purely as written it's not making it more gamist or simulationist, but just more random.
@PSPbrtag
"I love this. I'm a gameist at heart who tries as hard as possible to be a narrativist (even got an art degree) and Disco Elysium and Outer Wilds are the games that made me glad to have a foot in both worlds."
Outer wilds is not really Narrativist because you do not mechanically interact with the story. It's a simulationist playground with a modest amount of gamism. In fact, you don't really know what the story is to begin with, you're discovering it, rather than manipulating it, as you play.
@Keldorah
"Disco Elysium is for gameist role-players what SpecOps the Line was for gameist FPS players."
I mean... SpecOps was pretty gamist. Again, 'having a story' is not the same thing as narrativist. Narrativist Spec Ops might, for example, see you as a player chosing to take on madness points as an explicit mechanic (perhaps in order to win fights, but it also means you can't avoid causing crises, creating a reinforcing downward spiral)
I had the body down in my first try, It's seriously surreal that I missed out on this feeling of inadequacy and impotence by luck. I was too lucky.
I think it's much less about luck and much more about your combination of skills plus the choices you make, and then a little bit of luck. You get bonuses for approaching things more methodically, observing carefully, asking the right questions. A white check might be 40% chance when you first look at it, but if you hold off and observe or ask some more first, you might find suddenly it's 75% because of +3 "asked about the thing/saw the thing"" points, without even investing any new skill points.
I was thinking about those meta rules you laid out and realized Pathologic checks the ones you mentioned. Thinking about it, Disco and Pathologic are quite similar. Both games have this downtrodden messiah of sorts who dumpster dives, solves mysteries and abuses his authority to disgusting degrees.
This is one of my favourite aspects of the game, personally. It's first few hours are genuinely quite harrowing, but they make the moments where you do improve yourself and you don't simply retreat into the void as you did before so much more rewarding. Great video!
I have absolutely no clue how such a low view video got into my algorithm, but I'm glad it did. Love the editing and suberb audio quality for such a small channel. Keep doing what you're doing, it's great!
I played as sorry cop at my playthrough and I liked every single minute of it. While I was at it, i definetly had been reflecting my own mistakes with people, and it resonated with me on a higher level. I dealt with the story as sort of "redemption arc" for Harry, and it felt like Harry was on a right path at the end of the story.
What a beautiful game
I had a pretty successful first run of the game tbh, it took me a while to get the body down but it got done and i solved the case, missed some stuff so I played again. I passed that 3% skill check on throwing up first go which felt incredible
That must have been a totally different experience, I haven't even considered how that first playthrough must feel if you get really lucky with the skill checks
@@EphemeraEssays The systems reminded me a lot of playing dnd so I may be more primed to accept some bad rolls as well. I can 100 percent see how it would be discouraging to get bad rng early game tho especially if you're more accustomed to traditional video game mechanics
@@EphemeraEssays It really depends a lot on what your skills are too, and your choices. If you happen to have a lot of Logic, Perception, Visualization etc you do *much* better on puzzles and questioning people for example. And you can add bonuses to skill checks by just asking the right questions and observing carefully.
One of the best examples of video games as a legitimate form of artistic expression. Beautiful game I've recently completed my first play through and its quickly secured a spot in my top 5 for best games ever made
I really like the point I've heard somewhere: usually in video games if you fail a quest you just miss a piece of content, but Disco Elysium actually accounts for fails as something intended, and you go on with your playthrough (and that's brilliant). In a way, it is a game about fails and an eventual redemption, which happens even if you mess up in the process (and oh boi you will!).
That being said, for me that didn't work that well: in my first playthrough I chose to put almost all my points into Inland Empire, have fun on my own and ignore other characters. That led to some interesting stuff, but by the end of the game Harry was as delusional and lonely as he was at the beginning. Also I missed a lot of content, but that was my fault because I guess I was trying to see how far you can go into your Inland Empire. That, however, amplified the redemption at the end of my second playthrough, where I tried to make things right, bond (and dance) with Kim, etc. So though you can't fail the game mechanically (failing a check never leads to "game over", and often gives you some fun content), you can fail it metaphysically by being a self-centered prick in denial :) Or at least that means you should come back later and retry it.
Anyway, I really appreciate that you dissect very concrete (and at the same subtle) aspects of the game! With Disco Elysium it's easy to fall into talking about more abstract themes, but understanding how it achieves its effects on people requires a more focused perspective (like the one presented in your video).
I like that taking a side is important. Being a non thinking centrist avoidant of conflict resolves nothing, and only serves to promote the status quo. As the ideological goal posts move around, you are discouraged from saying "uhh whatever's in the middle is fine, as long as I am not a target of criticism and don't have to take a firm stance on anything." Very cool. I like that a lot.
Absolutely! It does feel really disappointing when games see the "perfect non-confrontational" option as a reward, like you're supposed to be satisfied by finding out the secret choice that makes the choice meaningless.
Disco Elysium is a game for a certain type of person who is not likely to play games in the first place. (I know multiple people who the story, writing, and philosophical bent of the story and game would strongly resonate with, but don't play games..much like the characters within the game itself.). I barely play games anymore myself, but luckily I played it, and loved it! A masterpiece.
Disco elysium was one of the first games I played after about a 20 year break. Trying to find other games to move onto is hard as the obtuse nature of it was engaging making others since seem a bit hollow
It is really difficult to find anything that equals it. You may be interested in Planescape: Torment. It's one of the inspirations for Disco Elysium, with similar gameplay, and despite it's age holds up incredibly well
"What about the struggle to come?"
"Harrier will stand with the people. Harrier will stand with Revachol."
"..."
"Remember, the party never surrendered."
Dude, I thought this video was one I've been sleeping on by a big creator. But I just realized you're only 3 videos in.
Salute for the quality, I really want to see more of your work!
I will write another comment with an argument later when I can get my thoughts together though.
When I played this game I stopped for a long time. Then I decided to declare that "I would beat this game without save scumming so that I would actually beat it". Not alot of games force you to overcome something like that.
I see a new Disco Elysium video essay. I click like and enjoy hearing another person's insights into the best written game of all time.
Personally I was never bothered about these aspects about the game, and didn't view them in at all the same light as you. It was refreshing to have a game that was more like an actual tabletop roleplaying game in structure. Instead of expecting and being disappointed the game didn't follow the cookie cutter format of most games, I enjoyed the rare change of pace. Most of the time I find the all paths lead forward so no choices matter kinds of games pretty worthless, and I wish we'd get more games like Disco Elysium.
the final quote is genuinely moving, and it is facts
Very good content. For me there was a specific moment I felt really hopeless in this game and it was awesome, I'll write it below but spoilers:
-It was when you find your car in the ice. Since Harry forgot his identity and was crearly fucking up his job, I decided to play as professional as possible, with all his quirks but no drugs, alchool, finding all the clue, trying to help people around, being supportive ecc ecc... classical good guy character. but while doing this, tales of Harry's drunken antics continued to surround me, reminding me of what a failure I was, of all the staff I lost (memory included), but deep down I knew that if I remained focused by the end of the game it could have been a new beginning for Harry.
Then I found the car... and the sheer realization of the damages and costs made me genuily a bit nauseated. Even if I catch the killer in an hour it was still a colossal fuck up and that point I just passed the bridge, I didn't even had a clue on how close I was to find it. I know that by the end you can get a positive ending, but in that moment, on the bench with kim I really felt hopeless and it was awesome that the game can convey such emotions
disco elysium is a game that made me feel like not a protagonist, but just another citizen of the city,, there is no hero, no backing off from your bad deeds, characters remember the shit you said or the good stuff you did, you're just another human circled by other humans, there is none of that bs of guaranting your win everytime bcs you're the player, i love this game to death
Absolutely fucking love that you used Paul Looney's Kim theme to accentuate this videos ending.
It's such a good piece!
I think your videos are very promising and unique!! The focal point of audience feedback is so small yet so original. I don't think anyone else would have discovered these in this angle.
All I did was save, redo and retry. Eventually I understood the skillset upgrade and the options and what clothes to wear. Best game I have played in a long time, it is different and that is what I am grateful for.
Please enjoy some free engagement and may the algorithm bestow your work unto the masses.
This is the work of a philosopher, recognizing the fundamental points where the game make us feel the way it did, congrats i found it extremely well tought
Hearing mandus as background music in a youtube video on disco elysium? You sir, are a man of culture
Nice work! I finished the game some time ago in 3 sessions cause I enjoyed it so much. Friends that I have recommended the game to have dropped it after just a few hours, even though they seemed to enjoy it. This video explained a little bit why that could be. The algorithm has really recommended me some gold here. I subscribed because I saw how small this channel still is, excited for more.
Great video! I just finished the game and I didn't have much time to analyse it in my head but you're totally right. Disco elysium intentionaly makes you think like you're doing terribly even tho you follow the expected path and it really makes for a very unique experience
Good video. Clearly my pattern recognition ability is weak because I didn't realize that any of these things were breaks from the norm.
Disco Elysium is a game where you can die before you're even conscious. I think that captures what sort of experience it is quite succinctly.
Wow, rarely do I stumble upon content that manages to say something new about Disco Elysium. And yet you've managed to do it! Congrats, this is a really good video with some very original and valuable ideas^^
The ending is beautiful, summarizes everything just great
You really put into words what I couldn't put my finger on with this game. I've never finished it but have attempted it twice because I find it fascinating, and watching your video makes me want to take a third crack at it.
Definitely do! It's well worth it 😊
Do it, the final act is the best part imo, it's a roller coaster
Great essay, Precise and to the point. But I don't think sorry cop is for punishment, it's more of a call-out to player behavior, players tend to appease the npcs necause they don't want to be extremists or because they want to be nice, and the game makes fun of you for that. But it's also an encouragement to play differently, the thought even makes you lose less points of morale and health for failure, it's clearly a way for the game to tell you meta-narratively to take risks and behave differently.
Can't wait for more essays from you
That's true, punishment may have been the wrong word. It is true that it feels like one though, based on the reaction I've seen from my friends
More to come!
Good video, although i would mention that collecting trash isn't really a trap because only talking makes time pass, so you only waste like 2 minutes inserting the trash in the machine. It's definitely almost completely useless, though, and it does make it all feel more hopeless.
Great analysis. Can't wait to see more content!
I played this game for the first time recently and I was kinda stunned at how close to my TTRPG sessions the skillchecks were. I messed up a bunch of easy checks but somehow managed to get the body down and not throw up on the first try. It is exhilerating passing a hard check and hilarious flubbing an easy one. Yes it can be frustrating but then again? The character you're playing doesn't really deserve to be the cool hero. He's a pos who has to deal with the consequence of his action. I mean... it is great fun but if people were told this one thing: "you are not the hero of this story. You're playing a shitty person, a cop, an addict, a douche." They would have a different way of getting into it. The same way when you tell a new Dark Souls player that they have to be prepared to die a lot. It changes your expectation and prevents being thrown or insulted.
It's sad that sleeping in the dumpster isn't actually possible. You lose the game if you do.
The devs of Disco Elysium are some of the very few marxists i actually respect.
This was great keep going mate
really cool analysis
This is really high tier content well written and engaging I hope that the algorithm gives you a good bump, liked and subscribed
These videos are amazing. I hope more people find your content
just started it, not gonna finish because i still havent played disco elysium but i am gonna watch both your other videos, i can tell theyll be great
Amazing video! Always great to discover new video essayists
Just wanted to point out your parting words were pretty good, great video.
I'm in the process of playing the game right now, and I never had a sense of looming dread hanging over me when it came to my money problems.
I was excited at the idea of a special dialogue choice with kim where I have to either beg or convince him to sleep in his police car, because Garte would have kicked me out of the hotel by then.
Garte gave off huge "I am so done with your shit.." vibes that I assumed there is no way he would ever let me stay at the whirling in rags if I didn't pay for the damages.
Strangely enough though, I was so efficient at hoarding money and lucky enough that I internalized a thought that helped me pass a skill check with Joyce.
I had the money I needed to pay for the damages on day 1 and I had 40 Real left to spare as well.
From that point I found another solution to the constant 20 real you have to pay each night to stay at the whirling, so money didn't become a problem late game either.
In other words, I'm both really lucky and I have a way of looking at stuff that makes my eyes light up and want more of it, when things go south :P
i seem to have had such a different experience to what you describe here. when you ask joyce for money she will just pay your dept. i fucking loved her for that! and i got the body down on day 2. but after day 1 i stopped playing for a while because i felt there was a timer running out to solve the case at a certain day and i felt like i couldn't do it.
so, for me it wasn't the money that was percieved as a problem but the feeling that i wasn't accomplishing anything and time was running out.
when i failed some checks in the beginning i was awed by how easily kim interviened and saved me which made me love him so much right from the start.
a very interesting video! i never thought that making you feel inadequate on day 1 was coscious choice by the game developers.
Maybe our experience with RPGs is different but I barely had anything to do by the evening of day 1 on my first ever playthrough
Oh shit, the Hades background music is a nice touch
Wonderful video!
Storing the dead body in a fridge? Kim just put it in the car off screen in my playthrough, makes me feel like I missed something key or that there are more differences than I thought with the Nintendo Switch version...
This was something I definitely did on my first playthrough last year, but I couldn't get it to happen for the footage. I'm playing on PC, so maybe it was removed?
No difference in the versions, just different options you can choose. You'll always end up with Kim driving the body off(i think), but if you do some specific checks and dialogue you can find a freezer to temporarily store the body, making it easier to find the bullet.
I've never done the fridge idea, either. (I'm playing the PC version.)
Putting it in the car actually takes it away so that you can't examine it later. Putting it in the fridge saves it so that you can examine it before you send it away.
****SPOILER ALERT*******
My preferred way if getting it down is shooting the buckle. That way you can do the examination right away and don't have to involve ... other parties. You can either get some lucky rolls or savescum your way through it.
I played on Nintendo switch and got the fridge. Not on my first play through of that bit, though, because the game really makes you think you’re crazy for thinking there’s something else.
@@hoesmadx2469 I don't think you'll get the quest to refrigerate the body if you already find its secrets on first try. It's a fun side quest, stuff such as Garte's reaction if you ask if you can store the corpse in the Whirling's fridge...
did a build that was most like myself for my first run. finished in it maybe 4 days playing it non-stop. my favorite game ever i think. however i dont believe i'll be replaying it any time soon.
you should do a playthrough with all of the stats maxed
People are too used to power fantasies.
This is the first video I've seen about this fantastic game that discusses this aspect of it - which I very much felt when I played it.
shout out to my people who got rockstar cop the first time
The first time I played Disco Elysium I was sad and frustrated, so my first couple of hours in the game were rough, specifically because of how hopeless it feels at first, the dialogue as well. I'm glad I decided to try again some other day because this game is incredible, it has become one of my favorites.
Great video ! Continue doing essays because you do that very well ! You point to these little things I've felt while playing Disco Elyseum but couldn't really put words into. Thanks !
"All the things I felt but couldn't really put into words" is why I personally love watching video essays, so this is incredible to hear. Thank you!
The Sorry Cop is more akin to penance rather than punishment. The Detective escapes the punishment by apologizing profusely.
Strange I couldn’t set it down finished it as soon as I could. I felt so enraptured in it’s world that I accepted it’s rules. They felt natural like a part of another world. It was a part of the whole the story they were giving me.
I had the same experience on my first playtrough as well and think thats probably the best way to approach the game. Surrender and curiosity.
Accepting the premise and seeing where it leads, what story it tells you. Finding out what kind of person the main character is, what kind of place revachool is.
Starting the game as a detective who lost his memory was perfect to put me in that investigative mindset.
banger video brother man
I think the "infernal engine" is our brains -- those voices endlessly chattering... but I like your interpretation better.
Music from Return of the Obra din
great stuff mate
Luckily before I played this gem I knew from researching without spoiling myself this game was made to fail stuff and playes best if you have some really good and some really bad stats. This information is key, I think. Whomever you encourage to play Disco Elysium give them this one advice!
You're right, and the friends I mentioned who gave up on the game gave it another chance after I "subtly" tried to hint at this hahaha
For me, playing this game is easy because I know that even when I fail I'm just walking down a different path the author's and developers crafted with just as much care as the others. It might not be how I wanted to story to go but I'm more than willing to see how it ends
Except the failed Authority check with Kim in the church. I refuse to walk down that path, instant reload most recent save.
When I first played Disco Elysium, I chose the options that were the most narratively interesting, and it rewarded me for it. When I gave it to my boyfriend to play, he didn't enjoy it partly because he was trying to do things 'right' and conceal his amnesia.
That's quite interesting to hear.
On my first playtrough i was just trying to find out about Harry and the world and quite afraid to mess things up. But my first impulse to do my best was to be honest.
Harry couldn't remember a thing, so that's what i told everyone who asked. Trying to conceal that seemed like a surefire way to mess up and get in trouble.
And as everyone seemed quite helpful, understanding and encouraging, especially Kim, i felt confirmed in my choice.
Amazing video, what an excelent analysis! I loved the mechanics of Disco Elysium and watching this video I realized how the game plays with you while you're playing it and thinking you know how things work in its world. But you don't (on the first play). I hope you create more videos. Congratulations for this amazing work!
Actually a fresh look. Kudos
I begged for money at every chance and made bank.
I loved the game, its like an interactive book. Got a happyending too, as much as that was possible in the world it is set in.
this was extremely well done
After reading the title of the video and watching it with my thoughts, my thoughts were very different. I wonder if you did to us what disco elysium did? :D if so you're really good dude
Those who can't remember the struggle? Dude, the struggle will be with me always. It'll be more persistent than the Force.
Though maybe, as one of the people who bounced off it within the first few hours :p . Took a pretty long break playing other games before I decided to give it another go 😅😅
Excellent video.
Loved that they built up a world so similar to ours but so alien you cant use your knowledge from our world. You play as a person with lost memories but you really have no knowledge about this world and you need to learn everything to be able to use/refere it... and its works so well in the first time. You can build up the world around you to make like you are a big joker, a mysterious supernatural cop, a swindler, a rockstar, a classic noir detective or a dirty bad coop. You can take political stands, learn complex scientific part of the world and all these doesnt matter at the end really.
This how to react part was realyl storng in the first playthrough, especially because you know nothing. If you play it nicely even that you are a police officer will surprise you (and then when you learn being a police officer in this world is not exactly equal than being a police officer in ours). So you can start to making up theories about you got attacked, your car got stolen, you got drugged...stc just to take you off the case. And these are all slowly collapsing while you discover how bad was you are. And here you can take a stand if you feel this need to be deffended or take another turn and of course most of the people just back off. Later when you know all of these and you just build up with an aim of become one other you go with that.
Definitely! I can't remember the last time a game allowed you this wide range of possibility to roleplay different characters, and it's so rewarding that it encourages you to on later playthroughs to make up a new personality to play as.
Надежда умирает последней.
It only took one year from RUclips algorithm to suggest your channel to me....
I totally missed the point, because what I learned from Disco Elysium was that Red and Yellow Skills are OP, which unironically made me go to the gym and improve my life.
I'm 'only' about 19 hours in, and 3% finished, but I feel that this is a game that requires multiple play throughs. Epoch Philosophy did a great analysis of the game and its existentialist concepts - the smile, the amnesia, politics, history, revolutions - the subject creating its own identity. Yr take I can fit in there with this analysis, along side it, because existentialism is essentially metaphysics. What is essence in the first place, as in, existence before essence? That's metaphysics in a nutshell. U take Harry and create his essence after he's literally thrown into an existence, that just happens to be the game's environment. The game unabashedly plays with this idea of what it means to be in this world and how to create your identity in response to that. No silly optimism or self help references. Hopelessness is the very basis of the game's existentialist leaning.
That's a fantastic point, another developer could have easily came out with a simplistic "optimistic" angle that would ring hollow and ignorant in the reality of this world. I'm glad they didn't do that.
I have not seen the Epoch video on it, need to check it out!
Great video man!
Joyce gave me 130 real day 1 so I wasn’t ever that worried about the debt.. but it took me ages to get past measurehead or get the body down.
Good video!!
actually good content
really solid end quote
Great video, surprised by the low view and sub count. Fantastically done!
I never got the Sorry Cop copotype in my playthrough. The apologies and wallowing in self-pity didn't call out to me, outside of a few comedic moments. What I tried to do was make things right - move on, do the investigation, and become a communist oracle of the apocalypse.
I RECOGNIZE 'MANDUS' PLAYING IN THERE AT 9:21
Somehow, it felt fitting to Joyce hahaha. Her own theme song {Just called Joyce) feels pretty similar
I always get money from Joyce so I don't have to pawn off Kim's hubcaps.
you got me to look into the game. It looks so good.
I am a simple man. I see a Disco Elysium essay and I subscribe
Yeah I have a friend who hit that first day wall and just couldn't continue. Just the oppressive despair, constantly being told he was shit and that the world itself wasn't much better really turned him off.
But I just love this game so much, even if the ending is a bit disappointing every time. Mechanically it's one of the most interesting RPGs I've ever played, and I love the fact that there is basically no combat. You don't just go around beating up random thugs in back alleys like you would in most RPGs, violence is considered the worst outcome in most situations.
Oh yeah, the ending and the solution of the case kinda sucks. It feels so out of left field and unrelated to what you did before.
It makes it quite transparent that the case is just an excuse to be curious, ask question and explore the world (and Harry). But it sure works very well for that.
I disagree. I can understand that DE gives me Measurehead as a racist and the boy's room as a commie, but I have no understanding of what these words actually mean, because people keep redefining them around me all the time. So I don't use Social Concepts while gaming.
I also feel free to beg for money in this game. Aside from Evert. That cheap bastard can eat his chair. Fuck it, I got big bank from the old lady that taught me about the pale. Not that I understand how this affected the political plot. I was a radical centrist who listened to everyone, but found no one's solutions as ideal.
Okay I watched it till the end now and hearing that summary made me tear up, because I ofc was a sorry cop as well and I soon became an Art SuperCop, because it was my answer to this circumstance. Thank you for recapping and reminding me off this journey. And especially of how it felt at the beginning. on my first 2-3 20min attempts before my actual full playthrough.
I love Voliotion, IE and Concept
SPOILERS!!
The video essay is pretty good, however I had a pretty different experience, this probably depends on what abilities and dialog options you choose and your luck. The cop types I was recognized for were the superstar cop and the art cop. In the end I went for "Actual Art Degree" but didn't develop the superstar cop thought "Some kind of Superstar" (although looking back it would have been funny). Perhaps next time I might go for Some kind of superstar, although being an art cop was pretty satisfying as well. I painted the town red! But you could also argue that being an art cop is the worst, like the description says, lol.
I didn't struggle with the same things you described: I had plenty of money - to the point that I even had the ultraliberal thought, but I didn't develop it in the end. I was unsure about the ideologies as they were presented, I hesitated between moralism and ultraliberalism but didn't commit to either like a true moralist. Taking off the body was actually easy for me. The thing I failed a lot was convincing Titus to tell me stuff (I even committed suicide with game over twice... the second one was just over the amusement of the dialog), because I had the Authority of 1 as I played a thinker archetype . Also I failed to lift the barbell twice and couldn't try anymore like a true nerd. I actually stopped playing for a few weeks and returned later to finish the game due to not being sure how to convince Titus to talk. After coming back I just kept investigating and managed to find some plot points and also managed to raise my authority to 3 with thoughts and items so I could roll a success with Titus. The endgame was actually very satisfying and I got the best ending. But to be honest I never felt like I was "winning", it was quite the struggle, that much is true.
This is a great video. And the game was great, I loved it for these reasons cuz like you said it put me in the shoes of Harry. I am Raphael Ambrosius Costeau