Be a Bad Vegan | Andy Shovel & Pete Sharman | TEDxClapham
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- Опубликовано: 18 июл 2018
- Andy Shovel and Pete Sharman explain their vision for a new form of veganism. Although they're now co-founding a well-funded meat-alternative brand, they previously just spent the last 4 years running their beef burger delivery business. Andy Shovel and Pete Sharman have been solving problems in food since 2012. Back then it was how to deliver the perfect burger to Londoners’ homes - crucially with minimal product degradation. They founded what is now a small chain of upmarket burger delivery shops called Chosen Bun. They successfully sold the business to a large fast-food operator in 2016. Now they’re tackling an arguably even more important problem - how to save the world with plant-based meat products. (NOT)MEAT is their new well-funded startup that aims to convert the 97% meat-eater market head-on.
Andy Shovel and Pete Sharman have been solving problems in food since 2012. Back then it was how to deliver the perfect burger to Londoners’ homes - crucially with minimal product degradation. They founded what is now a small chain of upmarket burger delivery shops called Chosen Bun. They successfully sold the business to a large fast-food operator in 2016. Now they’re tackling an arguably even more important problem - how to save the world with plant-based meat products. (NOT)MEAT is their new well-funded startup that aims to convert the 97% meat-eater market head-on. This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at www.ted.com/tedx
Basically, be a bad vegan until you become a good vegan. It's not a new form of veganism. It's called transition.
Abra Cadavra thank you!!!!
It’s to encourage more people to transition. I think that unfortunately, the nosiest of people in the vegan community are very militant and are adamant in their belief that an all or nothing approach is the best way to reduce animal harm (even though it isn’t in the long run because it discourages people from staying vegan in the first place). This video simply shows people who have only heard those noisy vegans that it’s okay to take the transition slowly and still occasionally consume animal products until you are comfortable giving them up entirely.
allison the 'all or nothing' vegan militants you mentioned are most certainly paid meat industry 'vegans', whose " why I stopped being vegan' videos infest online sites like YT.
@@breadcrumbs3530 Stop using the word militant. Someone being passionate does not make them militant. I'm so tired of people claiming that vegans expressing their views is violent. How? You can't just change the meaning of words. Just stop.
@Abra Cadavra Absolutely. This is one of the reasons I don't like flexitarian, pesciterian, vegetarian etc., they are all end positions rather than seen as a step along the path. This "bad vegan" thing is just rewarding people and telling them they've done enough when clearly they haven't. Encouraging "becoming vegan" or "on the way to vegan" would do the same job of stopping people feeling judged (even though we would judge them way more for not even trying), while letting them know that they should always be looking to improve.
Veganism is actually really easy if you have the right mindset
Yes yes yes.
Yes
☝️☝️
after watching earthlings i literally cant stomach meat anymore. that movie did the hard part for me
And supplements
Humans are so obsessed with meat & cheese lol. The most overlooked addictions on the planet if you ask me.
Absolutely addicted, except that I think salt may be worse... I mean, it's there to make meat more palatable, and cheese too... without salt, both kinda go bleah and I don't think people would eat either. I've recently made my whole food plant based diet salt free and it took a few weeks but now lentils beans rice and all veggies have much more flavor than when I first dropped the salt. Sense of taste is coming back. As far as I know, we don't have taste-receptors on our tongues for fats nor amino acids/protein, I wonder what salt-free meat and cheese would taste like, but I doubt it'd have the depth of character of my veggies :D I'm not gonna bother finding out tho. But yes, the general state of addiction to quite many things is dramatic and severe today.
mdansson 100% agree
Viva Nailah Meat and cheese are just tasty foods that cause a dopamine release. Humans are addicted to dopamine.
c'est la vegan The fact you stated “Humans are addicted to dopamine” shows you don’t know what your talking about
Dopamine is one of causes of addiction .
God satan Addiction is a weird word. Perhaps habit is better. I really don't know what I'm talking about. But I do know that dopamine plays a significant role in the brain's reward system and that it's all very complex. We're wired to eat what tastes good, which is usually calorie-dense food.
Vegan 11 years - I was a hardcore meat eater but found extreme reward in switching to plants for my health, better environmental impact, better for animals and humans. It was a no brainer. There is a bit of a learning curve but with RUclips, and the internet things are much easier today than they were 11 years ago when there was a limited selection of vegan foods. I read the book Whole by T Colin Campbell and in that book it made a lot of sense. If you care about your health stick to as much whole plant foods than all these vegan processed foods. I have seen vegans overweight, high cholesterol and so on... the reason is because they went from eating things like whole foods and began eating the thousands of processed vegan products out there. I first thought of these vegan products as complimentary to a whole food plant based diet not the center piece or for people either in transition or people who were not just there yet but wanted to eat a less harmful product. I think as vegan we need to rethink what we think is healthy. Many of the products out there are really just as unhealthy as the product it is suppose to emulate. My argument here is for the return to nature and eat more whole plant foods. We have become processed people.
There is a place though for better than meat products but long term I hope people will realize their health is the most important thing they have and sticking to whole foods is their best long term option.
Look up ex-vegan videos.
i agree so many ppl think that just cuz ur vegan ur healthy but ur not if ur mainly eating the “fake meat, cheese” and stuff. although i mainly eat plants sometimes i do enjoy a good “fake meat” food. i’m impressed on how good they can make em taste tbh. but i think if the fake stuff gets people to switch then eat as much of it as u want lol
@@fine100 anecdotal.
"return to nature" appeal to nature fallacy, what's natural doesn't necessary mean it's the right thing to do, however I do agree we should we eating more whole plant foods.
@@oomfiekat anecdotals have some importance, don't dismiss them cuz "tHeY aNeCdOtEs"
If you think eating meat is a personal choice you’re forgetting someone. That’s not a judgement that is just reality. Choose love brothers and sisters 💚
Choice, culture and traditions shouldn't have victims on the other end. So many people still don't realise that when they consume foods they create a demand for that and then the meat and dairy industries keep the supply going, that's what 'supply and demand' means, the indirect funding of slaughter and cruel slavery. They really need to think about it and make the connection.
Vegan for the Planet, the animals and each other
🌎 🐔🐖🐄🐐🐟 ✌💗
Lovelutionary u have -200 IQ congrats
FlyBoy787900
no u
FlyBoy787900 and since when are you any better? You need to stop deflecting and try to actually understand people’s point of view. I’m not trying to be mean, I just want people to not just be rude but try to understand or at least hear their views without even giving it a chance.
@@Dedess11 wow, you must be really insecure.
This is nonsense.
People love to hear good news about their bad habits, and this just perpetuates that.
Right out of Dr. John McDougall's mouth. "People love to hear good news about their bad habits." So true. Rationalization and excuses.
They are perpetuating the stereotype that going vegan is too hard and to please buy their products... Wow. =|
stgermaing going vegan is hard tho, extremely hard but worth it obviously
YourGalCharlotte I actually didn’t find it hard at all. The hardest part however was how people treated me, the food change was fun and exciting. Another aspect not addressed by why it’s great to eat a full range of plant based foods is the health benefits, eating mock meats is fine on occasion but I honestly lost over 100 pounds just from cutting out animal products.
stgermaing You do realize that telling someone who is finding it really hard to give up meat that, “Oh, I didn’t find it hard at all” is pretty condescending. Meat eaters should be allowed to take baby steps because going full on vegan all at once is almost guaranteed to fail and once that happens, they probably won’t want to try it again. Allowing room for some cheat meals creates a positive connection with less meat and will encourage them to continue their road to full veganism.
Allison Koester your perception of condescension is misplaced. MY experience going vegan was easy (food wise) but someone else’s could be different. (Intersectional veganism) This video represents the attitude of “its too hard so just wait for our product to be able to go vegan” IMO.
I’d rather eat meat once a month than ever swallow any fake meat product. Sorry. It can’t be good processing any food.
Im a badass vegan.
Me too!!!
word
Abra Cadavra nooh heheh
Forever Vegan ya bro
Forever vegan!!
This ted talk just isnt accurate, It literally doesn't deserve a better explanation than that. Giving out false perceptions to people in order to further gain points on their product while trying to diminish what their product stands for at the same time
Going through the comments I can assure you: There is an stereotype and people are reinforcing it. This is a path to actually become a vegan. They are giving options.
As a vegan and as a human i have to say this is a terrible talk. jaysus.
Says he whose video from 2016 has 86 views........
EJ_2012 S says he who has no videos with zero views....
Actually this comedic approach relates to people quite well! I would love to be a bad vegan occasionally and it would've made my conversion a lot easier. However my allergies come back for months if I eat animal products. I love what veganism has done for me but this is a great way to share it.
Agreed 100%. It was hard to watch. I did to see where it was going, only to understand I will never get that time back. SMH
It was pretty painful, I kept skipping forward waiting for them to get to the point. I couldn't finish it. lol
As a vegan, i dont entirely hate this. But at some point we need to get animals and their secretions off our plates
They have a fundamental misunderstanding of what veganism is. It's an ethical belief that humans do not have the right to use animals. Sure, we aren't perfect and we all make mistakes (I actually misread a label and bought non-vegan mascara by mistake just a few days ago), but if you knowingly, willingly eat a hamburger, then you are not vegan because you thought it was okay to pay for and eat that animal's flesh, however rarely you do so. It's obviously better to eat and use fewer animals and eating one hamburger a year is by far better than eating one a week, but please accept that you're a flexitarian/reduceatarian.
Esormai Is it not better and much clearer if we just said 'plant based' as vegan as you said is a lifestyle and not just a diet.. doesn't make sense saying half vegan/flexitarian/reduceatarian/etc?? it's like saying half/almost/a third pregnant.
ElleV Pavan, I'm sorry. English is not my mother tongue and while I think I speak it mostly well, I often struggle with words which have similar meanings. Please, can you explain more the difference between reduceitarian, flexitarian, and plant-based?
Esormai your English is great, the reply to your comment was poorly written and made a bad point.
Esormai I think that vegans calling them felxitarians is proving their point that veganism is this elitist label, and you are judged for a misstep when eating meat once a year. I'm pretty sure that their belief of not using animals is still there. That philosophy is still in tact. But many years of eating meat, does condition the body and that misstep shouldn't cause that type of judgement from vegans.
Whatever the label, I think way more people can follow such a lifestyle and in the end of the day it will benefit animals more than strict veganism. The more I proceed to veganism the more I see that not many people understand our morals. Most people don't want to kill animals but they don't view them as individuals who deserve respect and dignity, therefore they don't mind eating meat just to please their taste buds. Therefore I think that not eliminating meat completely and just reducing it is feasible for more people and the harm we do to animals will reduce at a higher pace.
I really had such a love/hate with this video more than any other TED Talk. I am a vegan and will continue to be a vegan and I full heartedly agree with the idea of everyone doing so as soon as possible even if they can't stand not living without eating animal products. It ends long-suffering and enslavement, greatly reduces the pollution throughout our environment, and is overall so much healthier for our bodies to avoid cancers and diseases. I am excited these guys are doing this and hope that they can pursue all vegan food. Vegan food doesnt have to be healthy it just has to be right for our planet and others suffering because in the end what we decide to do to our individual health is our decision but we should decide for the rest of the world and let them suffer because of our actions.
These guys are like the "pick-me's" of veganism lmao
Yea it took me a minute but I thought so too smh
Their not vegans they are flexitarians.
Rachael Wood the ol "see food" diet.. ya see food, ya eat it.
Can't fault them for trying to do better, but i wish they would use a term that does not include the word vegan. That is probably the cause of the numerous downvotes. Of course, they are too business-savvy to not use that already established word.
Abraham D Yeah, I suppose less meat is better than the "meat makes a meal" mentality.
those flexitarians want that vegan prestige.
they aren't flexitarians.. they are vegans, they say bad vegan for vegans that eat fake meat
Renard Dubois T'as pas regardé les premières 40 secondes de la vidéo mec. ils bouffent un mac do, leurs définition de "bad vegan" c'est des gens qui payent quand même de temps en temps pour la mort d'un animal. En gros ce sont des flexitariens.
Renard Dubois they walked on stage eating a Big Mac and proclaiming that eating a burger once a year is perfectly reasonable? They aren’t vegans
eating a vegan burger of course
Renard Dubois
It was actuel flesh from a slaughtered cow.
It is not that hard to become full vegan. When I first started veganism I thought I would never eat good food again but I was extremely wrong. I have everything a meat eater has without an animals throat having to be sliced open. Being a bad vegan is not right because you are still in support of the animal agriculture industry. If you want to start becoming vegan just do the 22 day vegan challenge where people guide you on what food to eat that is tasty and nutritious.
Bruisley I’m not vegan myself but isn’t it about more than meat, like makeup products and medicine tested in animals, clothes and furniture which have animal products, even some wines aren’t vegan due to the processing
That’s really a pretty bad way to promote veganism, just saying. Telling someone who is struggling to give up meat that, “Oh, it’s not that hard” is extremely condescending and just makes you seem apathetic and unapproachable. Recommending taking small steps and congratulating them for every success is a much better form of activism that reduces the chances of one backing out of veganism.
I agree with you completely. I found it quite easy as well and found that the food was very yummy.
Vegan food is FREAKING AWESOME -even gluten free, soy free, gum free veganism is awesome. I am currently considering some form of backsliding due to health issues that seem to stem from this diet, but it certainly isn't from a lack of delicious food. My joints, brain fog and hair are suffering horribly for the past year. I'm so CONFLICTED.
let people make the changes they see fit and contribute to whatever degree they see fit. and everyone will know how far they are capable or how far they want to do it. stop with that discourse of being just like me, think just like me, eat like I do. With that attitude they only push people away.
Why use the word vegan when it's not vegan? I don't understand.
clickbait
To promote it to more people which therefore will help more animals overall.
@@MasculineIdeal those two clowns onstage are promoting THEMSELVES, not veganism
@@billjoe39 it's the same under capitalism
@@aagantuk7370 not everybody accepts crass 'showmanship' as shown in the video, as being the norm
Giving up meat was so much easier than giving up cheese. We need to develop authentic-tasting, plant-based stilton, cheddar, camembert, roquefort etc.
JE Hoyes ihmo vegan chesse ale way better than normal. They taste like the american fake chesse which im big fan of
arek k Yes, they taste a bit like weak, processed cheese.
I’ve been making my own to get a more cultured taste but it’s so time-consuming. So far, in the UK at least, no one has made anything that would give anyone that cheese rush we all long for. And while they’re at it, they should look at making authentic-tasting salmon, tuna and mackerel.
Kyle Callahan in chcemical also? I doubt
I agree that vegan cheese isn't always the best taste wise. But I had some real cheese a few months back and the taste was just yuck. No clue how I ever loved that stuff.
arek k just google it.Chemicals are natural and theyre everywhere but this particular one makes you addicted.
I think making themselves relatable and interesting to omnivores is great but throwing other protein alternative companies or other vegans under the bus kinda sucks. From what I understand, a way to produce clean meat without FBS had already been developed. And just like what you said about your own product, their technology keeps getting better and costs keep getting lower. So its all the same. Anyway, I enjoyed your speaking style. Thanks guys.
Uh. Nope I don't think I am. I have been watching the plant based food space develop for years now and am quite familiar with this pragmatic approach. Just saying no need to knock their peers in the industry. Focusing on one's own strengths looks way more pro.
Haha! Change is so hard! Let’s just tell everyone to keep doing what they’re doing and feel better about it!
It's not hard once you realise you're eating a 'person' with feelings, thoughts and love for their children. Watch 'Dairy is Scary' & 'Game changers' etc & you won't go back x
Yeah I know! It is! Wow! So glad I saw this! This has really inspired me to do very little!!
Speaking as a 'full-time' vegan, I'm living for this movement :)
Some like it hard and some like it soft. This was as soft as the message gets.
Andy and Pete, the product sounds great and I applaud your efforts to develop it. However, the way you are discussing veganism is very harmful and I would ask you to please change tack in this regard. The framing of your argument helps to perpetuate the false stereotype that vegans are militant and patronising people, and moreover, that veganism is "extreme" and unrealistic. For people living in a developed society, and even for many people living in developing societies, it is a perfectly realistic and achievable diet. What IS extreme is the slaughter of billions of animals every year when there are a myriad of alternatives available to us that do not involve any animal cruelty.
There is also a very big philosophical and ethical problem that comes with promoting veganism on the sole or primary basis of the fact that there are vegan products that taste like meat available. This validates the idea that humans possess an unquestionable right to eat animal products (and to cause all the harm that comes with doing so), and that unless an alternative can be offered, then we have a right to continue this prolific abuse of animals. It is necessary that people understand the ethical reasons for being vegan, otherwise we will never have a satisfactory solution to the problem.
I also see a large issue with the way you have made light of eating a Big Mac, wearing leather, etc. Again, this makes a mockery of the horrors taking place in the animal agriculture industry, and helps to ease people's guilt about participating in it. I completely agree with you that we have a problem about the way many people perceive veganism - that is, the absurd expectation that vegans must flawlessly carry out their diet, and that any blemishes in their attempts to do so will render them a fraud and "kicked out" of the club. Again, this is an idea that is perpetuated more by non-vegans than it is by vegans, usually as an excuse for not even giving veganism a go. If somebody tries to go vegan and after a month of being a vegan they have a burger, this is no reason to forget the entire thing. If this happens, one should simply accept it as a mistake and continue doing their best to be vegan (in exactly the same way we would do in pursuing anything else that we wanted to achieve). So in that sense I absolutely agree with you that we must promote this idea that we should not expect ourselves to be perfect as vegans (or of course in any regard). However, it is extremely harmful to promote the idea that if you decide to have a burger, or an egg, or some milk every now and again, then it's all just a bit of a laugh and a giggle and hey mate don't worry about it. If anything, THIS attitude will cause people to slide back into a non-vegan lifestyle, if they have given no consideration to the ethical issues and think that dabbling with animal products is acceptable.
Bottom line, I think your product has outstanding potential but please rethink the way you promote it under the banner of veganism. Please get in touch with me if you want to discuss this further.
DJheapzgood I agree completely with your comment. I think that people should be able to come to the realization that veganism is the only way to live. However, I think that both you and I suffer from the same affliction. Which is that we give people too much credit. Mostly in two ways... Firstly, we expect the average person given all the same information that we were given that made us go vegan will care about it enough to make the change. Secondly, we think that the willpower that it takes to live vegan once they decide to change is prevelent enough in today's society. I don't have all the answers, I prefer your way of thinking, but maybe these guys' message is the only way to reach those countless people that would have never even considered giving veganism a go.
DJheapzgood well said. thanks.
vegan monkey, yes I think there is something in what you're saying if we keep in mind that most people arrive at veganism as a result of their social conditioning being gradually eroded. For me, I know it took multiple conversations with multiple people over multiple years before I saw the light. So, if this message allows some people to begin on that journey of erosion then that can only be a good thing but (as you and I both agree) it certainly shouldn't be an argument/perspective that is leading the vegan charge. Another thing that particularly bothers me about their presentation is the fact that it seems clear that profit is really their main driver. Sure, they mentioned sustainability, but they did so in a way that suggested that, given that the world will get to a point where we are _forced_ to look for sustainable options, they want to make sure they have a foothold in that market early and it's merely a bonus for them that it happens to be good for the planet and for animals' welfare. I cannot see that they really take the ethics of veganism seriously (or even the environmental issues) if they are prepared to get up on stage eating Big Macs and cracking jokes about it.
No way jose!
I am a vegan, and you got to get a sense of humor. Vegans are pretty obnoxious about their choices, and if you have never met one, then you are not telling the truth. All you have to do is to read the replies to get that most vegans are hateful and judgmental. More bees with honey- and that's all I got to say about that.
I'm a vegan and I think this is great because it appeals to meat-eaters, Unlike most companies that appeal to vegans who already know the harms of the meat industry.
Veganism Sint about appealing to meat eaters it's about liberating animals.
but meat-eaters are exactly the people that need to learn about the harms of the meat industry.
veganism is not about being in a club. a vegan is a person who actually doesn't want to harm animals. if you want to do things that harm animals, you're simply not a vegan. if you decide not to do things that needlessly harm animals, you're a vegan. simple as that.
But wouldn't you rather people who dont care about the exploitation of animals still ate a plant based diet? Even if they dont care about animals welfare?
SO they just "but bacon"-ed the intro of their talk. Wow. Bad form, gents. But veganism isn't a religion.
So...because meat eaters are feeling some sort of way about veganism, they are deciding to change the term? Get out of here!
I wonder if they flex the condition of their marriages, or flex the work at their jobs, or flex sobriety.
Come on.
Actually, yes.. You can flex the condition of your marriage, job, ...
thegazette they aren’t vegans, their product is and they’re trying to find better tasting vegan food. You are missing the point.
They have a long way to go before truly grasping what is to be vegan.
These guys really failed to fully explain what they meant by being a "bad vegan", did they mean flexitarian or just not vegan at all? It seemed like their message was just to try to sell their product to meat-eaters and tell them that they dont have to be vegan to buy it. They didn't bother to talk about what veganism is really about like getting people to be aware of the impact of their food choices. Also, in my experience the vegan community is not nearly as exclusive as they seem to think. The vegans that I know encourage people to start out by just reducing their meat consumption and do something like meatless mondays because we know it's not an easy transition for heavy meat-eaters. And that comparison to religion was just so far off. Religious communities are really not all that inclusive and welcoming, there are some that have very strict rules just like there are some vegans that are more militant. The difference in the percentage of the population is that religion has been passed down and taught over generations, whereas veganism is only recently becoming more well known and children aren't being brought up into veganism as they are into religion.
These guys are absurd. They are not bad vegans. They are nonvegans. It's like saying I'm a bad non-dog eater. I still occasionally think it's acceptable to slice a dog's throat for my convenience and pleasure. You know, a bad non-dog eater.
Maybe those are vegan Big Macs? 🤷♀
Maybe, but still a confused message to project.
I don’t think they were vegan Big Macs considering one, they do t exist and two they subsequently spoke about it being perfectly ok to eat animal flesh ie a Big Mac once a year......just my deduction.
Agreed. Using the excuse of leather products and toiletry/makeup products tested on animals is a lame excuse. I’m vegan and I don’t use any animal products in any part of my life. Going vegan was one of the easiest things I have ever done. And why would I want to use toiletry (saying that because I don’t wear makeup - also a good option for taking better care of your skin) products that were tested on animals? No thanks. These guys are just making excuses for people and it’s unnecessary because people are good at making their own excuses. What a waste of a TedTalk. They’re just saying that going vegan is too hard for people which is ridiculous. Does anyone know what discipline is?
Rich Wilson this is just a way to get people on their way to veganism. Sadly almost all people can't snap out of their zombie state of mind.
These guys just criticized cultured/vegan meat companies only to tell us that theirs is better, without telling us why and how it is better. Doesn't seem like they give a damn about animals or the environment. Typical slimeball salesmen…
c'est la vegan I thought that was pretty obvious by what they said.
I know this is off-topic, but I love your username.
Hayley Oesch :D
Sophie Benson They might work on their presentation! They come off quite insincere. Feels like they're just trying to cash in on veganism's growing popularity. And that's fine, cause I'm sure most other veg companies are doing the same thing. But why is (NOT)MEAT better than other vegan and cultured meat companies? They didn't explain much, only criticized their competitors.
THANK YOU.
I could only watch 2 and a half minutes before clicking out. This is a cringe talk.
Good call that man. I got to 3:20. For the animals.
Agreed.
same
By working on another meat alternative (sounds a lot like Beyond Meat), if these guys are successful, they are in the end going to save millions more animals than any single vegan because they will be helping to create more vegans with their efforts. Worth the watch.
Bad veganism is a really bad way to say it. I like flexatarian way more. I would rather them be fully vegan, but any meat free meal helps the cause.
It's not flexitarianism.. it's just being a real vegan but with fake meat..
@@renarddubois940 if that's what flexitarian actually meant I'd support it 100% but it doesn't sadly. To most people it just means eating animal products whenever convenient.
Big mack ?! Not even if they ll pay me instead, makes me sick only thinking...
I’m an a American but I just realized I’ve never tried a Big Mac before
You CAN'T do it = buy out product?
That's a tough pill to swallow for someone who knows people CAN do it.
I hope TED discourages marketing into their talks from now on..
Look at the smiles on their faces. Those of the smiles of people who are bullying others.
Ends with "good meat eaters" and "bad vegans" hmm.. something went very wrong
comment section confirms strongest barrier to entry in existance
Honestly. I find the talk entertaining but the people here are just 🤦♂️. If you want people to join your cause, don't shame and guilt them.
I love how so many people in the comments are literally saying the exact things that make the 94 percent NOT want to try going vegan at all. They think if they do, they be judged if they slip up even the tiniest amount. Let people make mistakes, my god. Anyways, I really like what these guys are saying. They realize that guilt tripping the MASS MAJORITY of the planet into becoming vegan is never going to work, we need to think of something else, something better.
Veganism is an animal rights movement so it’s not something you do day in and day out, you can’t care about animals on Monday but pay for them to be killed on Tuesday. People who do this are not bad vegans they’re just not vegan.
People like this is what we need. Helping build a kinder and better world for our children.
Reading the comments, it seems like vegans want to own that term to mean a person who doesn’t use or eat any animals products based on ethical reasons. I’m fine with that. I have recently gone to not eating any animal products, mainly for my health, and clearly it would be better for the planet if most people cut way back on meat/diary/eggs. If everyone ate mostly plant based with occasional animal products we all would be a lot better off. If true vegans still shudder at that, that is fine, they are leading the way to an even better world. But I get their point in the video, we needed the Prius to pave the way for a future of all electric cars. They are saying let’s get the majority of the population to “bad vegansim”, then we can improve from there.
There is no almost ethical, kinda compassionate, or slightly humane...either your a vegan or you arent. either you make the compassionate desicions to not harm animals (as practically as possible) or you dont.
Nothing wrong with baby steps for the food addicted. Actually this comedic approach relates to people quite well! I would love to be a bad vegan occasionally and it would've made my conversion a lot easier. However my allergies come back for months if I eat animal products. I love what veganism has done for me but this is a great way to share it.
This ignores the people who are vegans purely for health / diet. Not every vegan is vegan for ethical reasons.
Yep...And when 7 billion people have only one burger per year, that is still a lot of animals dying.
Haha I ended as soon as "love of meat" was mentioned. I only deal in absolutes and there is absolutely no love in meat. Only vice, money, avoidance of truth, and lots of filth. These are the qualities consumed and integrated into our beings when we eat flesh and secretions. Love is watching beautifully colored fruit grow and hang abundantly like gifts from trees. Love is bringing children to strawberry patches and apple orchards and community gardens, not slaughter houses. But these truths may not be for the frail of mind. And here we are
Wow TED talks just lost the minimal credibility they were hanging onto. "84% of vegans revert back to being an omnivore" - um newsflash, they weren't ever vegan they were most likely plant based such as yourselves. Being vegan isn't a "diet" like how you keep referring to it, it's a philosophy. SMH
Curvey Vegan "..they weren't ever vegan.." What close minded nonsense! People with sincerely held beliefs CAN and DO change their stance. Just because it's a "philosophy " doesn't matter either- adherents of any philosophy can change their opinions too! The truth is, a lot of ex vegans will return to the vegan lifestyle, but the more they feel condemnation and judged, the less likely it will happen.
edit - ex 'plant based diet followers'.
don't get hang up on word definitions...
plant based can be a diet that is mainly plants but still incorporates some animal products, so it's not the term you're looking for either.
vegan is currently is best and most catchy word we have to describe a diet of purely plants, so many people use the word as such.
you need to realize that word definitions ultimately do not come from dictionaries but from mainstream usage.
Curvey Vegan, surveys in the US show that about half of vegans here are like me; we choose it primarily for the health benefits. The reduction in animal cruelty and lighter environmental impact being great bonuses. Unilaterally defining vegans as solely due to reducing cruelty to animals would unnecessarily alienate half of your allies. We "plant based" eaters also want to reduce cruelty to animals, it's just not our first priority.
Frank Randall no they literally weren't vegan. That study lumped vegans and vegetarians together, and they found that the vast majority of people who quit were doing it as a diet.
They make a great point, that is, for meat eaters to eat less meat. Giving tasty alternatives to meat eaters, whose only choice right now, is eat salad or eat a burger, will lead to more vegan meals and less meat meals. They are brilliant and I applaud them and I am a vegan.
1operamom if three time a day all you can decide between is a burger or a salad, you seriously need to up you cooking. I mean, I think of myself as a not so good cook, but I eat a lot of food and hardly ever a salad....
Hi Sabrina, I am not talking about myself eating a choice of between a salad and a burger. I am referring to a person on the typical American diet, who pretty much eats starch and meat and a salad once a year.
Yes, people that eat like that need to up their game, I agree. It is going to take...well, actually I don't know what it is going to take for people to begin to care about their health, but the vegan products that replace meat, are a good start for them.
For me, it feels like I didn't really know how to cook before I became vegan and began to watch the Happy Pear cooking videos; the fearless way they threw in ingredients without measuring, explaining how to get layers of flavor and what kinds of vegetables to use etc. etc. But in the world we live in, where the mindset is to eat lots of meat and fast food, if you don't cook, not sure how health will ever find its way to ones door.
Thank you for being an understanding vegan.
I know y’all are mad but they’re being realistic. A majority of the population being 25% or 50% vegan (plant based flexitarian whatever) will create a greater change in corporations accommodating vegan products. Opposed to 6% of the population being let’s be real 80-99% vegan lmao. They ate the burgers to be relatable to their audience so they went in feeling open to what they had to say. It’s NOT and ideal world, but there has to be more patience.
Scoria would you advocate for more stealing, less stealing, or no stealing?
Reduction is great, but you cant advocate for reduction, only advocate for zero.
Most people are already non-vegan, so why advocate for them being non-vegan?
There are other labels other than vegan and non-vegan. If it's great, then let it be.
+Thanas Stefanis V Cause stealing is already considered wrong in society, and eating meat isn't.
Most people won't even consider if you tell them to stop all animal products, they will say it's too hard for them.
But if you tell them to reduce it, over time they will see it's not so impossible as they first thought.
I agree a 100% to this. :) And eating meat all days of the week will be something we did in the past pretty soon I think. I think more people will reduce their meat/ dairy/ egg intake if meat becomes more expensive. In Sweden it's talk of a meat-tax and I hope it will become a reality.
Their product is the 'Prius' of vegan food, not 'Tesla' level yet. But if it becomes successful, it will significantly reduce the consumption of meat and the suffering that billion of animals endure every year. On top of that, people who want to be vegan will have a much easier transition. Isn't that what vegan want? I'm vegan and fully support these guys. Everyone can become vegan at anytime. Meat eater can be vegan for one day and it's already helping the world. We all know plant-based diet is the way to go and pretty much the only way. But like any dramatic changes, it will be slow and painful. We might not have enough time, 90% of fish will extinct in 2048, remember? Any development to reduce meat consumption is encouraged and should be welcome.
I really thought it was a joke in the beginning... a shame it wasn't. I don't really understand how we can help veganism by perpetuating the stereotype that it is to hard to go vegan.
Why not be a Flexitarian for the transition period? I am trying 2/2 which is 2 months (58 days to be exact) of a Whole Food Plant Based (WFPB) vegan diet and then 2 days of whatever I want to eat. Works great for me! I know I can have my burger and fries, a steak, all-you-can-eat pastries and ice cream but just not every day. Gotta wait for my 2-day open period. Then I do eat locally raised animal products, certified humane, preferably. The other times I am learning the new tastes of vegan foods and help the planet and the animals and my health. Lost 15 pounds in my first 58 days and lost some aches and pains, probably due to reducing inflammation and getting more nutrients from plants (greens, berries, herbs and spices). Watching Dr. Greger's you tube videos keeps me excited to stay on track! He rocks!
You've been wearing a leather belt for years, you go vegan, keep the belt. Wear it till it's done then buy a vegan one. It's not that serious. These dudes are salesmen, they love hyperbole.
That was awesome. The message of veganism has never been conveyed so nicely. Hats off.
I don't like the principles on which this is based but it's probably an aproach that will conduce to a greater reduction in animal consumption. Maybe the attitudes will come easier after the habits change.
I think this is a great strategy! It’s incredibly important to be realistic and forgive yourself (and others!) for mistakes made on a vegan journey. Especially when all around us every day of our lives society tells us not to be vegan. All forward momentum counts, not just the final step to your goal.
This talk was pretty interesting...gave me a lot to think about. I think I'll still be a "good" vegan...:) But I appreciate the conversation!
Any movement away from animal consumption is a win. Well done guys.
meeting halfway is always a point on the path to better world for everyone, thanks
Love your Idea!
Just go whole food plant based where you eat a vegan diet and don’t have to deal with the label of vegan.
I never had problem switching to whole food plant based lifestyle from being a carnivore upon understanding the ethical and moral need for it. Seem like these two don’t have a strong enough convictions to overcome their desire to consume steak and chips for five minutes of decadence. Heck, I still hope their method of transitioning works for them.
has the product been launched yet? where can we find it?
Wow, I'd just like to say I'm a vegan and I think it's great what these 2 guys are doing . A lot of people are making negative comments about these guys, which is fine because that's your opinion, but also just realize how much these guys are doing for veganism. Have you created a new vegan product that will help more non-vegans go vegan? .... I didn't think so. So please let's all just take a step back and remember that most of us used to eat meat too and applaud and encourage these guys for their efforts!
Darlene R LOL
Let them call themselves whatever they want! Yes technically they’re not vegan but in the bigger picture who cares about labels, this laid back approach is gonna be waaay more effective in reaching out to meat eaters and growing the vegan movement than the angry stereotype
Thanks that was a great idea
I don't miss meat, I make my own and veggies and lentils taste better to me. For me, as a kid, I always liked side dishes better. Meat was the chore on my plate and always was hard to chew and made me feel unwell. Hamburger used to give me a headache and chicken would give me a stomach ache. Roast beef would also give me a headache.
As long as your health, values, and ultimate goals derive from Good Veganism!!!
Spot on!
Awesome show! Great work for better humanity!
It took me years of transition from animal products to vegetable based diet. It isn't an overnight shift. Body needs time to adjust the production of different fluids.
I used to call myself "veganish". The all or nothing mentality turns most people away. It's difficult to be a strict vegan in a very meat and cheese heavy world. If you can convince the majority of people to greatly reduce animal product consumption rather than punish them for ever slipping up you will see a much greater impact than a small percentage of people staying a strict vegan.
They made some valid points, especially about not being militant and letting people transition to less meat (heavily paraphrased), but it took them forever to get there, and I barely got past them gulping down food with their microphones on.
It's a shame that so many vegans on here care more about their own egos than animals' lives. If every person consumed significantly less animal products, fewer animals would die. That doesn't make eating animals right, but the fact is that innocent lives would be saved. If you put your egos and moral superiority aside, you would see that being more inclusive and encouraging (rather than embracing an "all or nothing" attitude which turns the majority of people off) could save millions of animals. Isn't that the most important thing???
Yeah and they are so blind to their egos.
Totally agree.
Amen! People saying that it’s easy to transition are lacking compassion for all the non-vegans. While they say their beliefs are actually based on compassion, and that that is the nr 1 reason to go vegan , because it’s morally wrong to kill and exploit animals. Just because it was easy for them, doesn’t mean it is for others. I also believe the all or nothing attitude is not the was to go, because all you do the it set up people for faillure. I am personally working towards a plant based diet, and it will take some time because I have to totally re-learn how to cook all my favorite meals, and I love to cook so that makers it easier. So I can imagine that if you don’t like to cook it’s very hard because we need to eat 3 times a day. It it simply impossible for most people to go vegan from one day to the next because people have to make significant changes which cost energy. Compassion means you are trying to understand feelings from another that you don’t experience yourself, so if the whole vegan club is so good at that please keep that in mind when you are pointing fingers at people who are trying to do the right thing ❤️ stop saying it is easy, cause for most people it is not.
I think it's funny how many ppl assume all vegans are extremists. Most of us are just chill and have a deep love for tempeh. :)
"I know to-fu" says the jedi master!! :)
I don't think you guys understand what veganism is... I'll leave it at that. The comments speak for themselves!
I think they are just saying transitioning to veganism
What arrogant men! Clearly in it for the business/profit. Horrible video ridiculing people who are trying to put reducing animal suffering ahead of their own tastes and tradition.
Wouldn't you rather people had the same horrible views against vegans and still didn't care about animal welfare, but ate significantly less meat or even no meat at all? Wouldn't you rather businesses were in it for the profit and ridiculed moral vegans if that meant more people ate a planet based diet? If you were a vegan youd care about the outcome of less meat consumption not the way we got there or your own ego
Veganism is more than just eating a plant based diet. You can be following a plant based diet and not be vegan.
Veganism is a lifestyle.. not harming/exploiting/slaughtering sentient animals needlessly. PLEASE MAKE THE DISTINCTION.
That's called clean eating. People have been doing that for years.
This is ridiculous. It's important that people understand that veganism IS NOT A DIET. It is an ethical stance. These two guys say veganism means you don't eat eggs, milk, or flesh. No, that is not what veganism means. It means you do your very best to avoid supporting cruelty to human and nonhuman animals. That is all.
And it's irritating that these two guys, after learning about veganism, decide to intentionally support cruelty by buying two burgers just so that they can make a speech about how it's okay to call yourself a vegan while knowingly, and needlessly supporting animal cruelty. It's complete nonsense. Eat vegan burgers if you like burgers so much. For every food that nonvegans eat, there is a vegan version for it.
I am currently wearing a nice vegan belt that resembles leather and there are several companies that make belts like this. Also, it's not expensive and you can find it on Amazon. They are so extra.
Why would anybody want to be “called” a vegan, if they’re not a vegan?
Does it matter why if less animals suffer as a result?
This is why I say I mostly eat a vegan diet it makes it more acceptable to meat eaters and they are more likely to try it for themselves
Why did they bring those big macs 😭😭😭
My 3 school age kids and I went vegan a few years ago, and it's been quite easy. We litterally eat the same exact way, just in a vegan version. I mean, there's everything out there already these days.
This is basically Kalel.
Yes! Exactly! My wife and I are 100% plant based when it comes to eating. She is more hardcore “healthy”, I’ll eat Beyond Meat and others occasionally. I love these companies as they ARE helping to save the planet! Easy step one for carnivores
Fantastic ted talk great angle to attack the problem
I randomly went 100% vegan last year and only lasted about 4 months. Now I'm flexitarian, planning to go vegetarian next year then full vegan after that
Wish they'd just encourage people to be flexitarians tbh. This talk felt really messy, but I get the core of their message I think
Thumbs down for stereotyping vegans
If it took the stereotyping of vegans to reduce meat consumption by meat eaters, wouldn't you be okay with that? Why care about your ego more than a decrease in animal suffering?
Why complicate?! Just make lentil burgers people! 😆
I totally agree. Dont lentilburgers taste great!! :)
Nice
you two should be on the stage! congratulations on your talk
Thanks Sam, yours was fantastic.
It's the same with anything that's positive: "it's better to have a million people doing a good thing imperfectly than a hundred people doing it perfectly." My brother is a great example of this. He respects and agrees with my veganism, but right now he feels like he can't give meat up, so he has meat-free days in the week, and makes sure to buy local and more ethical/sustainable meat/animal products as much as he can.
Before I became vegan, I just decided to eat animal products only a few days a week. From there, I started switching to plant-based substitutes here and there and eventually, giving up all of the non-vegan food I loved became easy, because I knew I could still enjoy the taste of them. I am a vegan now, but it would not have been easy for me to just jump into it immediately. I had to start somewhere.
I have been vegan 29yrs and l have no intention of going back to a diet of cruelty.
Even as a meat eater I was never that obsessed with meat that, as currently a vegetarian, I need a meat substitute to make my meals enjoyable and palatable
If you really want to be ahead of the curve boys then use ORGANIC produce to make your non meat products as this is the most ethical way forward.
These guys may just be trying to sell their product, but they have a point. Our society is no where close to becoming vegan as a whole. Yes, there has been an increased popularity and acceptance of veganism lately, but a large portion of that is people trying out a 'fad.' I'm a (good) vegan, but I know that it's highly unlikely that veganism will be adopted globally, never mind any time soon. Dairy has become a sort of addiction and the only way to get rid of an addiction is to gradually decrease consumption. As for meat, I believe that humans are meant to eat it, but in moderation. The idea of 'bad veganism' or gradual veganism world not be perfect, but at least the idea could create change in a more widespread way. The all or nothing ideal of the vegan community is too intimidating for many and it's what keeps people away. The world I'd like to see doesn't have to be strictly vegan, but one that eats sustainably.
Your argument does not have coherence. I'm looking forward to when law and legislation override personal preference and make veganism widespread. Secondly, humans are naturally herbivores (the canine teeth argument, the digestive system argument, plus heart disease argument). The "everything in moderation" argument has also been seriously debunked. Even small amounts of meat cause cancer, just as small amounts of any poison cause death. There is no such thing as "smoking healthy in moderation" and the same goes for class 1 carcinogenic meats. You're looking for a middle-ground that simply doesnt exist.
I freakin love impossible meat and so do my meat eating friends and family when I cook for them 🤷🏼♀️
The first time I tried to become vegan I also failed. I probably didn't pick the best time in my life to do it, because it was right when I had moved from Brazil to the United States as a teenager and I, who was already a picky eater, didn't seem to find nearly as many things as I liked to eat in the US at first, so my diet seemed restrict even without veganism. I was also trying to have my diet be completely vegan. Anyway, I felt like I was going crazy not eating meat. I also did it mainly because of animal cruelty. However, at 20, I found even more reasons to decrease my meat consumption. I started eating meat (actually, beef, pork, and chicken, and such) only one day every three days, but I actually didn't find it that hard because I still was eating eggs and sometimes fish, so I just decided to go ahead and stop with the other meats indefinitely. I definitely decreased my consumption of animal products a lot. Now, at 21, I am trying to decrease my consumption of eggs and fish, but it's been hard because I am living in a dorm and eating the dorm food (I am luck they give me something else instead of meat when meat is in the day's meal) and I am actually in Japan now, so it's been already hard adjusting to the new culinary. I think I will be eating the occasional sushi for the rest of my life, but I still like where I am at and where I am going with my diet even though it may not be perfect.
(About fake meat products, I actually ate a fake hamburger a few months ago and thought, "wow, this seems like real meat," but my friends ate it and told me it was pretty different. The point is, after you stop eating meat, you may not be able to tell the difference between the fake meat you are eating and the real meat you used to eat without eating the meat again. Honestly, even for actual meat, I ate actual chicken a couple of times in the last year and was disappointed that they wasn't as good as I remembered. I was like, "I broke my streak for THIS?")
I was like these guys is a joke. But after the speech they are geniuses
The 84% stat is vegetarian not vegan and those who went vegan for the animals were most likely to stick by the lifestyle. Yes being a bad vegan is a potential step up, but be a bad vegan for a bit and see how easy it is then become a real vegan!
The analogy between veganism and church is spot on: vegans would be more successful in spreading their message if they only changed their approach and embraced everybody that tries to eat less meat, flexitarians, bad vegans or whatever they want to call themselves.
Manuel Aprile no it’s not. Vegans think it is immoral to unnecessarily exploit and kill animals.
It’s like Christians seeing ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill’, but killing someone once a year. No Christian would accept that.
I mean, religions accept a whole lot of "sins". If people who use condoms couldn't enter churches, the latter would get pretty much empty. That's the kind of behavior I think would benefit the vegan/vegetarian cause.
The whole point of this talk is to appeal to meat-eaters/vegetarians and to recognise how difficult a lot of people would find going vegan. To all these vegans bashing it and essentially saying they're not in this exclusive vegan club- its ridiculous. They're doing a lot more positive things for the movement buy making it easier for non-vegans to transition; rather than bringing down people who are trying to make a change. This movement isn't really about all you perfect vegans, who find it really easy. It's about getting as many people as possible to reduce as much of their animal product consumption as possible. Yes if the whole world went vegan tomorrow it'd be amazing. But things don't work like that and gradually cutting back and making veganism more socially accessible to the majority, may realistically, eventually lead to a vegan planet.