Good video! I'm not racing to the trail head from my house so I don't mind going slower on MTB tires when the stoke factor is so high on technical single-track. Sure, sometimes I ride my MTB on the same trails. Both are fun and very different.
you keep saying longer wheelbase, I do not think that word means what you think it means...more tire patch for sure, but the frame geo sets the wheelbase
Yes and no, the frame does decide the range of wheelbase. But bigger/wider tires increase the diameter of the complete wheel, and by then does actually increase the wheelbase of the bicycle. Its pretty simple to measure if you are curious
Been running 2.2 race kings after I had 45mm panaracer gravelkings. It's the dream setup for the terrain in my area. Keep in mind the Maxxis Ikon (590g) tests like absolute shit in rolling resistance at 27w. While the Race Kings (600g) are closer to 15w rolling resistance. The 47mm specialized pathfinders (575g not that much lighter eh? ;) ) recommended later on in the video test at around 20w. Am I saying Race Kings are the be all end all for gravel? No definitely not, some of the other points around how it makes the bike 'feel' are valid. But this video and with the comparison of the Ikon's is not a good choice.
This is such nonsense. The Maxxis Ikons are dog-slow, just like other Maxxis tires. They are basically 10 watts slower than the Conti Race King or Schwalbe Thunder Burt. Also, on the road those two tires outperform basically any gravel tire because they're made of thicker compounds to account for the narrower surface area.
Race kings on my old diverge were just as fast as the pathfinders they replaced on gravel. Slower on pavement though.
21 день назад+2
"on the road those two tires outperform basically any gravel tire" -- demonstrably false "because they're made of thicker compounds" -- BS generalization
As a fellow OC rider (living in HB and ride a lot of the same trails you do), I've landed on the Pirelli Cinturato Gravel M. I went from the 38mm pathfinders > 45mm gravel M > 40mm Tufo Thunduro > 45mm Cinturato gravel M. My decision to go back to the Cinturato Ms was mainly based on the amount of additional control I get when on the dirt. They are a few watts slower than the Tufos, but in my experience - it doesn't really matter. Sure, it might take a couple more minutes for me to hit the trails, but I end up having a better time graveling because I feel more confident through having more control (especially in crystal cove). I've ridden a mix of social and endurance group rides on my crux with the cinturato Ms and had no problems. For the faster group rides? I just ride my road bike.
I actually daily run Conti 2.2 Race Kings on my Enve Mog for dry days and 2.0 Race Kings on “wet” days. Absolutely love it, have set some QOMs on and off road and won’t go back. I use the EnVe hooked 3.4 tubeless rim fyi.
@ oh yeah, much tighter clearances with the 2.2s. Approx 4mm tire to seat tube and 6mm chain stays. I put frame protection film in those areas just in case but so far no rubbing! ❤️
Correction: your wheelbase doesn't change. The axles do not move when you change your tire size. Only when you have flip thingies like the giant revolt
I've been using the tubeless Specialized Pathfinder Pro 700 x 47c tires on my Crux (they measure out to 2"). They are slick enough for road and with just enough bite for gravel (not mud though). Mind you, this is my road AND off road setup/only bicycle I own.
Not my sort of riding hut the discussions are fascinating. Blown away by how far things have come in the last 30 years. Keep on challenging, exploring and, most importantly enjoying. For me a big thanks to you all for your stories.
Had a good laugh hearing Aspens and fast rolling in once sentence🤣 Ikons aren't that far by the way. And apparently tire choice somehow affects wheelbase now? 😂
I switched from 44mm Tufo Thunderos, which were a very fast gravel tire to 27.5 x 2.2 Race Kings and have not noticed any change in speeds on the road or mild gravel, but definitely faster on anything bumpy or chunky. Only downsides are the drone on pavement, and 29 x 2.2 tires are going to have massive toe overlap on smaller gravel frames due to the larger total circumference (why I went down to 27.5). Maxxis tires are great for actual MTBing where grip matters more than rolling resistance, but they are terrible when rolling resistance matters more.
Congrats, you picked terrible tyres that dont fit your frame, against all advice to go 650B. Who wouldve guessed the tyres dont fit and are slow? lol Get a 650B wheelset, 2.2 RaceKing ProTection, tubeless and boom all of those solved
I'd love for you to pick up a 650b/27.5" wheelset and mountain bike tires and do a compare/contrast with 700c/29" wheels and the same mountain bike tires. I find that the RAM (radius as measured) of a 650b wheelset paired with mountain bike tires is more similar to a 700c wheelset with gravel tires than a 700c wheelset with mountain bike tires. I would guess that the rotational weight reduction of a 650b wheelset would be noticeable.
This has been a hot topic over the last 6 months. I’m currently riding an s-works Crux, and use it for gravel and cyclocross, your comments about tyre choice and clearance are key. In the UK our gravel is more mud, than gravel, and when it’s sticky, even using a 33c tyre for cross, it risks the rear stay getting some frame rub. So, the widest I’ve ridden is the 47mm Pathfinder which was great on dusty gravel during the summer. Now for the winter I’m running the 44mm WTB Raddler, and like you there is a fair amount or tarmac to cover before and after the fun gravel sections. These seem to be pretty good for this time of year. As for MTB tyres on a gravel bike, well I’m sort of in the ‘Why not just have a drop bar MTB?’ camp, and have recently considered something like a Specialized Epic, with both a suspension fork and a solid fork. This seems like it would be a lot of fun and allow me to ride on some of the more gnarly stuff. Anyways, I enjoyed the vlog and interested to see what you do next with the bike.
A mtb doesn’t allow for higher gearing to the degrees that a gravel bike can, not to mention the position it puts you in is less aerodynamic. If your goal is only to ride for fun then sure, do a mtb. But a gravel race with a mtb isn’t the ideal setup
Well Dylan Johnston has long sung the praises of mtb tyers on “gravel” especially the xc ones. There more supple and faster in many case than gravel tiers. They can also be lighter. But bike certainly need to be designed for it. Thunder burts, race kings are fantastic tyres for fire road type gravel tracks
Sounds like a 650b tire might be the better choice to retain a bit more nimbleness in a gravel bike. For the same width it’s lighter and the smaller diameter makes it feel less sluggish. Not to mention it’s less likely to rub against the seat tube.
My gravel bike is more on the adventure side and I run Maxxis Aspens 2.10 with 650s. To help on the efficiency side, I upgraded the hub bearings in my DT Swiss hubs to ceramic. Like you said, it's great in off-road, singletrack situations.
Piling on for a 650B comparison video with the Crux. For rides with lots of twisty smooth singletrack I really like the older Bontrager 650x2.0 XR1 Team Issues. They are light at 540g and super fun and nimble. Nice round profile with small knobs. Probably a crap mtn bike tire but really good for gravel. Also lowers your gear ratios with the smaller diameter which makes steep climbs easier. For faster fire road gravel I prefer the 700x44 Thunderos.
Exactly my thoughts - for anyone who rides “normal” gravel loops (which in actuality are usually 50/50 tarmac/gravel in my case) I think some 40-42s are perfect. The right mix of light and capable. Tthe gravel M (and for me the pathfinders) are super good for a fast gravel bike that could also hang for some km with road riders if you need to. Great video!
Great video! I agree with you 100% however there is so much data proving otherwise. One thing DJ and others claim is the they may perceive (sound, look, and feel) to be slower because they are smoother ….. do you think that’s possible? Gcn did a video testing 3 widths same tire on smooth surface and they were almost all the same. I believe the middle width was fastest by very small margin. I’m sure the 50 felt slower but it really wasn’t in the case. Thoughts?
I've been running a 2.25 Maxxis Aspen ST in the front and Thunder Burt 2.25 on my Stigmata V4. Living in Utah riding gravel 95% of the time, this has been a game changer for me. The rumored Pathfinder Pro 50 could hit the sweet spot in this category.
If you tried decent mtb tyres ie schwalbe thunder burts, you would see a great difference, ther light and fast rolling.. even racing rays which offer more grip are still faster and lighter than the maxxis you tried
Do the specialized riders like Beers, Sofia, Lance required to ride Pathfinders? It's so course dependent.. I like the sworks pathfinders in 42 because they are pretty light but roll great on mostly paved rides here in Coachella valley CA area.
Very well considered and I concur. I'm trying a few 45s right now, I've had some time on 50s, and played very briefly on some 2.1s. Although the 2.1s were so fun on trails, etc, each step up in size is taking away performance in other areas just as you said. No free lunch. gg
The only way to increase wheelbase on a bike is to increase the axle to axle distance. No matter the wheel or tire size the contact patch will always be directly below the axle.
I have a hardtail with 2.2 ikons that feels pretty slow and sluggish on tarmac. I'm thinking of changing to a gravel bike so I might look at one with 50mm max gravel tires as I want my new gravel bike to feel zippy which my hardtail certainly does not. Thanks for the video.
did you think about the Rene Herse Oracle Ridge (700C x 48 mm)... would be interesting how they compare to the XC and the wider Gravel Tires. I assume that in the ultralight casing they might be very fast and comfortable
Right now 45mm Pirelli Gravel H on my crux. Always priority rolling resistens over grip, regardless bike discipline. It's easier to compensate for bad grip with good bike skill, than slow rolling tyres.
Unfortunately I can't fit a 2.2 Conti Race King on the rear of my Trek Checkpoint (which currently is running 700x40 Pirelli P-Zero Race tires for road riding; I don't own a road bike). I was thinking about building up some spare i26 XC rims with road hubs into a really burly gravel setup, but since I can only fit a 2.1 at the largest in the rear, I don't think I'm going to. I also have a rigid Trek 1120 fork for my Santa Cruz Chameleon, which I ran at the beginning of this year with i40 rims and 29x3.0/2.5. The bike was fast once you got up to speed, but getting there was a chore, and the lack of traction was hard to deal with. I recently put a 160mm fork on it and some cheap Bontrager carbon wheels (both rotated off my e-bike), and it shreds. But I want to go back to the rigid sometime soon, probably with some Race Kings on those carbon hoops, and with a Flexx Enduro bar to help at least a bit with the traction. The biggest problem for making a truly fast rigid XC bike out of the Chameleon is the small chainring. According to Santa Cruz, the max chainring is 34 or 32 oval. Right now it has a 30t oval.
Put those exact tires on my gravel bike specifically for a couple of gravel grinders that were 90% off road in ATV trails. Perfect for those occasions, but I took them off immediately after since it feels like deploying a parachute every time I hit pavement.
Ikon was a bad choice to make a decision on .. Aspen st, thunder Burt or race king .. the thunder Burt and race king are faster than all of the gravel tires that you mention.. ikon is prob 7 watts slower and heavier. The race king and thunder Burt are lighter than some of the tires you mentioned as well.
I think that Gravel bikes would benefit from 29x2.2 tires. However, the tires have to be very light at about 600 grams. And, Ideally they would come with a Gravel tread pattern. A tread pattern like the Pathfinder Pro would be my choice.
For me, when I have longer distance rides - say 50-75+ miles and the rides include off road (single/double track) my go-to is a gravel bike with 40mm tires. I ride both Tufo Thundero's and Conti Terra Speeds. For shorter rides that have some fun technical trails, then I ride my mountain bikes. On pavement, Race Kings feel slower than Terra Speeds. (Sorry Dillon.) So, mtb tires plus drop bars just ain't my thing.
@@michaelheckel9857 awesome thanks for the insight! Shopping for a new setup and seeing what else is capable of running Burts/Kings aside from the Seigla
Cornering on pavement with mtb tires is especially miserable! Have you tried Rene Herse knobby tires? They corner like slicks on pavement yet grip super well on gravel. Get the ultra light casing. I have 48mm 650b on my cannondale topstone … super!!
I think you have to try the light casing tires. The proponents almost all say the Maxxis ones are suboptimal. But if one is not racing, for me the question about equipment is always, am I going to get dropped because of gear?
Great video, as always! This week I celebrated a national cycling holiday known as New Bike Day! Took delivery of my dream bike, the Pinarello Grevil F3 in Champagne gold. Was able to fit my carbon hunt wheels and currently running my favorite tires 700 X 45 Perrelli Cinturato gravel H. I’m in the market for 700 X 50 tire for this bike and wondering your recommendation. My gravel route is similar to yours with maybe 50% road.
Thunder Burt in the front, Aspen ST in the back. Or if space is tight, 50 Pirellis in the back. Seems quick to me and no punctures for the whole season 😅
I don't think you should end this topic without using proper low rolling resistance tyres. This is what the whole thing is about. I'm currently using 29x2.25 racekings and I notice a bit more rolling resistance on tarmac compared to the Tufo Thunderos I was using before, but it feels great off road. The higher trail and general height of the bike make it feel like a truck though 😂
Ikons aren't known to be the fastest option from Maxxis. Its why you see those racers you mention more likely on a Continental Speed King or Race King, because it's faster without being much slower on the road. In fact the Race King isn't that much slower than the Panaracer GravelKing SK and faster than the Maxxis Rambler gravel tire. I hated the rambler and GK SK, but loved the RaceKing 29x2.0 and 29x2.2(frame max) on my gravel bike.
50mm Schwalbe G-One Bite on 650B wheels. End up at about same diameter as 700x40mm so the geo of the bike is not messed up. 535g for each tire which is not much more than the same tire in the 700x40mm size.
To me, gravel is off-road. 😂 The thing to consider is how and where and even when the bike will be ridden. I'll be taking my bike everywhere and while I love speed, getting to my destination matters more. I'm currently on 26" wheels and I plan to make the front tyre wider than the rear; seeking to nail A/Ts. My trails are dusty and sandy in the dry season whilst becoming muddy and full of puddles in the rainy season. I'm just amazed that some will complain when their location gives them mouthwatering options...😢 Well, these are my thoughts.😊
Fwiw I run 2.1 ThunderBurts and none of the comparisons ring true. They are the same weight as a Schwalbe G-one R in 45mm and are easily faster in terms of rolling resistance than almost every gravel tire out there and you still get the cushed ride feel and lower puncture risk.
That's my very question but reverse. What is the best gravel tire/ width on a mountain bike 🤔 I have a specialized rockhopper base 2025 and trying to find out if it would make a better hybrid than a hybrid would make as a mountain bike 🤔 If so then there's no need for me to keep a trek fx 2 2023
I would actually recommend 33C Limus if you're riding snow (or a fatbike). The tyres cut through the snow and the big knobs hook up really well. The in-between tyre sizes just kinda make things harder--they don't float on top of the snow like fatbikes do, and they don't cut through to the hardpack underneath like CX tyres.
@@thedownunderverse I've had a good experience at 40mm, but I don't think I'll go much beyond that. My next bike will be an all-road, and I'm sure I'll be perfectly fine from 30-40mm. If I want more than that, I'll grab my MTB.
Maxxis ikon run faster than gravel tyres , it's the casing that makes them faster than gravel tyres, the crux is the limitations. My gt grade with ikons rolls almost as fast on the road as my pathfinders. You just need a better gravel frame to gain the advantages.
I have the ultimate gravel bike, trek super cal gen 1. Its ready for when i want to go single track or gravel. Gravel bikes are just another reason to spend more money.
Great feedback. Pretty content with the S-W Pathfinder 42s w Roval Terra CLX on my Crux as as my one wheelset. Too lazy to swap a second road wheelset or a more XC wheelset. Also, will "re-subscribe" once I figure out if you're the Crux guy again. ;)
Can you use a mountain bike wheel as a replacement for a 700c gravel wheel? I'm a big lad, and keep destroying my rims. I would thing mountain bike wheels would be stronger.
It seems the one bike to do it all is becoming a thing. Maybe in part because of the ridiculous prices of new bikes. Gravel bikes and endurance bikes have become close in geometry, and that may indeed negate the need for a 2nd bike. MTBs are a different story imo. Or at least I think it is challenging to have just one bike for road, gravel and difficult off road where you may want different gearing, wider handlebars and suspension.
Ikon aren't the right tire for this. They're a decent training mtb tire, not a low rolling resistance race tire like race king. So obviously you can't be amazed.
Common sense tells anyone that tire choice will be determined by the nature of the course you are riding/competing on. for example, on a personal note, I live much of the year in Colorado where we have some pretty rough "gravel" courses and I appreciate having mountain bike tires. I also spend a good deal of time in northern Thailand, where, gravel racing is as much as 40 percent pavement/concrete and smoother gravel to packed dirt. I certainly don't need a mountain bike width/weight tire for these courses. A 40mm tire is more than enough. At the gravel world Championship race in Belgium a month or so ago, some riders were on road bikes and even 38mm tires. While I, along with some others, personally had the opinion the course was too tame, mountain bike sized tires would have been ridiculous. "gravel" bikes and gravel riding and racing covers a very wide spectrum and one set of tires won't take you to top level performance in all situations.
No general right or wrong. Completely dependent upon where you ride. For where I live, I ride much more on my monster gravel bike with 2.25” tyres than my gravel bike wearing 45c tyres. But that’s because of where I ride.
I have the luxury to be able to own a gravel bike and a hardtail MTB, so not putting MTB tires on my gravel bike any time soon. On technical terrain, i much prefer a proper mtb.
I'm pretty annoyed with the whole wide tires thing. I like to ride the bare minimum needed for the terrain I'm riding down to about 40c. I like to ride slicks too. My goto race tire is either a Strade Bianci or a 44c Rene Hersch Snoqualimie Xtra light. I may throw on a 45c G-One RS if it's going to be rough. If you're riding smooth gravel roads you're not going to go faster on a 2.X MTB tire than you are on a 40c Strade Bianci. If you riding what you're riding the video or some single track then sure go bigger, but like you said, just ride the MTB.
I think the best way to go about this is to pick the tire that makes you the happiest while riding. If you’re not a pro racer, there’s no need to overthink it.
21 день назад
Anyone hailing wide tires saying they have lower RR even on the road and not mentioning that the rule says "provided the pressure is EQUAL" is a fraud. Equal pressure means running mtb tires on pressures that will fu*k you up big time on rough terrain and road imperfections because as has been experimentally proved and theoretically argued (by none other than Silca on their blog for example), the wider the tire WITH THE SAME PRESSURE the harder the bumps feel because of the mass of air and rubber that has to be displaced. Try pumping a 50mm tire to 3bars and then do the same with a CX tire. Funny thing is that the 2.2" Continental Race King Performance tested in 2023 by BRR has higher RR across the board compared to my 40mm Challenge Gravine and the same applies to the 2.0" Race King. With tubeless I can run crazy low pressures offroad, handle fall/winter weather infinitely better and then pump it up for road and be decently quick AND comfortable, unlike on a MTB tire.
@ Cool. It’s probably been won on 33s and cantis back in the day. Every pro I saw this year ran the biggest tire that would fit. The descents were treacherous for me on 50s and I’m a fairly good descender.
@@Timmeh2Buck it’s just weird that gravel racing has been around for 10+ years and the pros were all mostly using 40s up until 2023 and winning Did they change the race route in 2024? It looked brutal
The problem is most people got influenced from “professional racers” using MTB tires on the lifetime Grand Prix Series….which are super chunky 100 mile + gravel and MTB races. 99.9% of RUclips commenters ain’t riding on… The gravel world championships was were just won on 40 mm tires. Great honest review and reality check here
He’s using a slow tire. My bike can’t clear 2.2 RaceKing ProTections, but it can fit the 2.1 Thunder Burt Super Grounds. I rode those most of the summer and compared them to the 45mm Maxxis Ramblers I used before and the Thunder Burts were slightly faster on a few gravel areas I timed them on. Felt noticeably better on rougher gravel too. That tire doesn’t have a ton of tread so I’m assuming it’s down to the wider contact patch.
What was used to win the gravel worlds doesn't matter at all. Van der Poel could have won using his cx bike, but that doesn't mean it was the best bike for the job. He's the 7x cx world champion. Have you seen him launch an attack at Paris-Roubaix and glide over the terrible terrain at 55 km/h? Does that mean I should ride it on a road bike as well? Absolutely not.
What’s the ideal gravel bike + mountain bike tire setup? 👇🏻
I take my xc hard tail to a lot of gravel events if I actually feel like I need mountain bike tires.
Good video! I'm not racing to the trail head from my house so I don't mind going slower on MTB tires when the stoke factor is so high on technical single-track. Sure, sometimes I ride my MTB on the same trails. Both are fun and very different.
you keep saying longer wheelbase, I do not think that word means what you think it means...more tire patch for sure, but the frame geo sets the wheelbase
Yes and no, the frame does decide the range of wheelbase. But bigger/wider tires increase the diameter of the complete wheel, and by then does actually increase the wheelbase of the bicycle. Its pretty simple to measure if you are curious
@@timmikkelsen2747 wheelbase is the distance between axles, which isn't affected by wheel diameter
@@fugalfunkster8868 Because the front fork is at angle, the larger the wheel, the further out in front the contact patch will be
@@loveskating3 nope, the contact patch may change in area, but it's center doesn't move
@@loveskating3 Wheelbase is axle to axle. You could put a 20" wheel/tire setup on there, it wouldn't change the wheelbase.
Been running 2.2 race kings after I had 45mm panaracer gravelkings. It's the dream setup for the terrain in my area.
Keep in mind the Maxxis Ikon (590g) tests like absolute shit in rolling resistance at 27w. While the Race Kings (600g) are closer to 15w rolling resistance. The 47mm specialized pathfinders (575g not that much lighter eh? ;) ) recommended later on in the video test at around 20w.
Am I saying Race Kings are the be all end all for gravel? No definitely not, some of the other points around how it makes the bike 'feel' are valid. But this video and with the comparison of the Ikon's is not a good choice.
That's how I felt about the Race King(black chili version) vs the GravelKing SK's(plus the regular) I've tried.
This is such nonsense. The Maxxis Ikons are dog-slow, just like other Maxxis tires. They are basically 10 watts slower than the Conti Race King or Schwalbe Thunder Burt. Also, on the road those two tires outperform basically any gravel tire because they're made of thicker compounds to account for the narrower surface area.
Absolutely. That’s why I bought a pair of 2.2 Thunder Burt for my next Gravel bike!! The inflate to 52c which is fine
Agreed, using Maxxis to begin with is terrible lol run some Racekings or Thunderburts for a better experience
Exactly
Race kings on my old diverge were just as fast as the pathfinders they replaced on gravel. Slower on pavement though.
"on the road those two tires outperform basically any gravel tire" -- demonstrably false
"because they're made of thicker compounds" -- BS generalization
As a fellow OC rider (living in HB and ride a lot of the same trails you do), I've landed on the Pirelli Cinturato Gravel M. I went from the 38mm pathfinders > 45mm gravel M > 40mm Tufo Thunduro > 45mm Cinturato gravel M.
My decision to go back to the Cinturato Ms was mainly based on the amount of additional control I get when on the dirt. They are a few watts slower than the Tufos, but in my experience - it doesn't really matter. Sure, it might take a couple more minutes for me to hit the trails, but I end up having a better time graveling because I feel more confident through having more control (especially in crystal cove).
I've ridden a mix of social and endurance group rides on my crux with the cinturato Ms and had no problems. For the faster group rides? I just ride my road bike.
I actually daily run Conti 2.2 Race Kings on my Enve Mog for dry days and 2.0 Race Kings on “wet” days.
Absolutely love it, have set some QOMs on and off road and won’t go back.
I use the EnVe hooked 3.4 tubeless rim fyi.
I’ve seen some others running race king 2.2’s on their mogs, is space tight in the rear, any rub
@ oh yeah, much tighter clearances with the 2.2s. Approx 4mm tire to seat tube and 6mm chain stays. I put frame protection film in those areas just in case but so far no rubbing! ❤️
Correction: your wheelbase doesn't change. The axles do not move when you change your tire size. Only when you have flip thingies like the giant revolt
I've been using the tubeless Specialized Pathfinder Pro 700 x 47c tires on my Crux (they measure out to 2"). They are slick enough for road and with just enough bite for gravel (not mud though). Mind you, this is my road AND off road setup/only bicycle I own.
Brilliant video, spot on, my exact findings when attempting similar set up
Not my sort of riding hut the discussions are fascinating. Blown away by how far things have come in the last 30 years. Keep on challenging, exploring and, most importantly enjoying. For me a big thanks to you all for your stories.
Had a good laugh hearing Aspens and fast rolling in once sentence🤣
Ikons aren't that far by the way.
And apparently tire choice somehow affects wheelbase now? 😂
this is a fashion channel not a racing channel haven't you heard?
I switched from 44mm Tufo Thunderos, which were a very fast gravel tire to 27.5 x 2.2 Race Kings and have not noticed any change in speeds on the road or mild gravel, but definitely faster on anything bumpy or chunky. Only downsides are the drone on pavement, and 29 x 2.2 tires are going to have massive toe overlap on smaller gravel frames due to the larger total circumference (why I went down to 27.5).
Maxxis tires are great for actual MTBing where grip matters more than rolling resistance, but they are terrible when rolling resistance matters more.
Congrats, you picked terrible tyres that dont fit your frame, against all advice to go 650B. Who wouldve guessed the tyres dont fit and are slow? lol
Get a 650B wheelset, 2.2 RaceKing ProTection, tubeless and boom all of those solved
I'd love for you to pick up a 650b/27.5" wheelset and mountain bike tires and do a compare/contrast with 700c/29" wheels and the same mountain bike tires. I find that the RAM (radius as measured) of a 650b wheelset paired with mountain bike tires is more similar to a 700c wheelset with gravel tires than a 700c wheelset with mountain bike tires. I would guess that the rotational weight reduction of a 650b wheelset would be noticeable.
What happened with the Enve Fray? Updates with the 1x vs 2x? 42 vs 46? 😄
No pressure, just really curios 🤣
This has been a hot topic over the last 6 months. I’m currently riding an s-works Crux, and use it for gravel and cyclocross, your comments about tyre choice and clearance are key. In the UK our gravel is more mud, than gravel, and when it’s sticky, even using a 33c tyre for cross, it risks the rear stay getting some frame rub.
So, the widest I’ve ridden is the 47mm Pathfinder which was great on dusty gravel during the summer. Now for the winter I’m running the 44mm WTB Raddler, and like you there is a fair amount or tarmac to cover before and after the fun gravel sections. These seem to be pretty good for this time of year.
As for MTB tyres on a gravel bike, well I’m sort of in the ‘Why not just have a drop bar MTB?’ camp, and have recently considered something like a Specialized Epic, with both a suspension fork and a solid fork. This seems like it would be a lot of fun and allow me to ride on some of the more gnarly stuff.
Anyways, I enjoyed the vlog and interested to see what you do next with the bike.
A mtb doesn’t allow for higher gearing to the degrees that a gravel bike can, not to mention the position it puts you in is less aerodynamic. If your goal is only to ride for fun then sure, do a mtb. But a gravel race with a mtb isn’t the ideal setup
@@TyTy22_oh for sure, mtb with drop bars would be a lot of fun.
@ if only I had the budget for a mtb AND a drop bar mtb 😮💨
Well Dylan Johnston has long sung the praises of mtb tyers on “gravel” especially the xc ones. There more supple and faster in many case than gravel tiers. They can also be lighter. But bike certainly need to be designed for it. Thunder burts, race kings are fantastic tyres for fire road type gravel tracks
Sounds like a 650b tire might be the better choice to retain a bit more nimbleness in a gravel bike. For the same width it’s lighter and the smaller diameter makes it feel less sluggish. Not to mention it’s less likely to rub against the seat tube.
From my experiences riding on technical singletrack, It's a night and day difference.
My gravel bike is more on the adventure side and I run Maxxis Aspens 2.10 with 650s. To help on the efficiency side, I upgraded the hub bearings in my DT Swiss hubs to ceramic. Like you said, it's great in off-road, singletrack situations.
Piling on for a 650B comparison video with the Crux. For rides with lots of twisty smooth singletrack I really like the older Bontrager 650x2.0 XR1 Team Issues. They are light at 540g and super fun and nimble. Nice round profile with small knobs. Probably a crap mtn bike tire but really good for gravel. Also lowers your gear ratios with the smaller diameter which makes steep climbs easier. For faster fire road gravel I prefer the 700x44 Thunderos.
Exactly my thoughts - for anyone who rides “normal” gravel loops (which in actuality are usually 50/50 tarmac/gravel in my case) I think some 40-42s are perfect. The right mix of light and capable. Tthe gravel M (and for me the pathfinders) are super good for a fast gravel bike that could also hang for some km with road riders if you need to. Great video!
As in, Pirelli Gravel M?
Great video! I agree with you 100% however there is so much data proving otherwise. One thing DJ and others claim is the they may perceive (sound, look, and feel) to be slower because they are smoother ….. do you think that’s possible? Gcn did a video testing 3 widths same tire on smooth surface and they were almost all the same. I believe the middle width was fastest by very small margin. I’m sure the 50 felt slower but it really wasn’t in the case. Thoughts?
I've been running a 2.25 Maxxis Aspen ST in the front and Thunder Burt 2.25 on my Stigmata V4. Living in Utah riding gravel 95% of the time, this has been a game changer for me. The rumored Pathfinder Pro 50 could hit the sweet spot in this category.
Haven’t seen/heard this rumor yet…
The Schwable Rick Pro looks great too. Why the ST up front and not another TB up front.
Agreed, I don’t understand why that configuration…
@@mellissanash7517 Just personal preference. The Aspen ST in the 170 compound is a massive tire and works great up front around 15 psi.
I’ve seen some others running race king 2.2’s on their stiggys, is space tight in the rear, any rub?
If you tried decent mtb tyres ie schwalbe thunder burts, you would see a great difference, ther light and fast rolling.. even racing rays which offer more grip are still faster and lighter than the maxxis you tried
Do the specialized riders like Beers, Sofia, Lance required to ride Pathfinders? It's so course dependent.. I like the sworks pathfinders in 42 because they are pretty light but roll great on mostly paved rides here in Coachella valley CA area.
The answer to "ideal" is in the casing. Try Mezcals or Continental Race Kings...they are fast rolling mtb tires...even on tarmac.
Very well considered and I concur. I'm trying a few 45s right now, I've had some time on 50s, and played very briefly on some 2.1s. Although the 2.1s were so fun on trails, etc, each step up in size is taking away performance in other areas just as you said.
No free lunch.
gg
The only way to increase wheelbase on a bike is to increase the axle to axle distance. No matter the wheel or tire size the contact patch will always be directly below the axle.
I have a hardtail with 2.2 ikons that feels pretty slow and sluggish on tarmac.
I'm thinking of changing to a gravel bike so I might look at one with 50mm max gravel tires as I want my
new gravel bike to feel zippy which my hardtail certainly does not.
Thanks for the video.
did you think about the Rene Herse Oracle Ridge (700C x 48 mm)... would be interesting how they compare to the XC and the wider Gravel Tires. I assume that in the ultralight casing they might be very fast and comfortable
Right now 45mm Pirelli Gravel H on my crux. Always priority rolling resistens over grip, regardless bike discipline. It's easier to compensate for bad grip with good bike skill, than slow rolling tyres.
Unfortunately I can't fit a 2.2 Conti Race King on the rear of my Trek Checkpoint (which currently is running 700x40 Pirelli P-Zero Race tires for road riding; I don't own a road bike). I was thinking about building up some spare i26 XC rims with road hubs into a really burly gravel setup, but since I can only fit a 2.1 at the largest in the rear, I don't think I'm going to. I also have a rigid Trek 1120 fork for my Santa Cruz Chameleon, which I ran at the beginning of this year with i40 rims and 29x3.0/2.5. The bike was fast once you got up to speed, but getting there was a chore, and the lack of traction was hard to deal with. I recently put a 160mm fork on it and some cheap Bontrager carbon wheels (both rotated off my e-bike), and it shreds. But I want to go back to the rigid sometime soon, probably with some Race Kings on those carbon hoops, and with a Flexx Enduro bar to help at least a bit with the traction. The biggest problem for making a truly fast rigid XC bike out of the Chameleon is the small chainring. According to Santa Cruz, the max chainring is 34 or 32 oval. Right now it has a 30t oval.
Put those exact tires on my gravel bike specifically for a couple of gravel grinders that were 90% off road in ATV trails. Perfect for those occasions, but I took them off immediately after since it feels like deploying a parachute every time I hit pavement.
Ikon was a bad choice to make a decision on .. Aspen st, thunder Burt or race king .. the thunder Burt and race king are faster than all of the gravel tires that you mention.. ikon is prob 7 watts slower and heavier. The race king and thunder Burt are lighter than some of the tires you mentioned as well.
I think that Gravel bikes would benefit from 29x2.2 tires. However, the tires have to be very light at about 600 grams. And, Ideally they would come with a Gravel tread pattern. A tread pattern like the Pathfinder Pro would be my choice.
For me, when I have longer distance rides - say 50-75+ miles and the rides include off road (single/double track) my go-to is a gravel bike with 40mm tires. I ride both Tufo Thundero's and Conti Terra Speeds. For shorter rides that have some fun technical trails, then I ride my mountain bikes. On pavement, Race Kings feel slower than Terra Speeds. (Sorry Dillon.) So, mtb tires plus drop bars just ain't my thing.
I put CONTINENTAL Race Kings in 2.2 on a wheelset with Duke rims, Pirope spokes and Nonplus Components hubs on my MOG 🙏🏻👌🏻👍🏻
I’ve seen some others running race king 2.2’s on their mogs, is space tight in the rear, any rub
@vegasbornmedia 8mm space in the rear 👌🏻
Rims are 26mm inner witdh
@@michaelheckel9857 awesome thanks for the insight! Shopping for a new setup and seeing what else is capable of running Burts/Kings aside from the Seigla
Cornering on pavement with mtb tires is especially miserable!
Have you tried Rene Herse knobby tires? They corner like slicks on pavement yet grip super well on gravel. Get the ultra light casing. I have 48mm 650b on my cannondale topstone … super!!
I think you have to try the light casing tires. The proponents almost all say the Maxxis ones are suboptimal. But if one is not racing, for me the question about equipment is always, am I going to get dropped because of gear?
Great video, as always! This week I celebrated a national cycling holiday known as New Bike Day!
Took delivery of my dream bike, the Pinarello Grevil F3 in Champagne gold. Was able to fit my carbon hunt wheels and currently running my favorite tires 700 X 45 Perrelli Cinturato gravel H.
I’m in the market for 700 X 50 tire for this bike and wondering your recommendation. My gravel route is similar to yours with maybe 50% road.
Thunder Burt in the front, Aspen ST in the back. Or if space is tight, 50 Pirellis in the back. Seems quick to me and no punctures for the whole season 😅
Would love a video of gravel trails you ride in Socal.
I don't think you should end this topic without using proper low rolling resistance tyres. This is what the whole thing is about. I'm currently using 29x2.25 racekings and I notice a bit more rolling resistance on tarmac compared to the Tufo Thunderos I was using before, but it feels great off road. The higher trail and general height of the bike make it feel like a truck though 😂
Ikons aren't known to be the fastest option from Maxxis. Its why you see those racers you mention more likely on a Continental Speed King or Race King, because it's faster without being much slower on the road. In fact the Race King isn't that much slower than the Panaracer GravelKing SK and faster than the Maxxis Rambler gravel tire. I hated the rambler and GK SK, but loved the RaceKing 29x2.0 and 29x2.2(frame max) on my gravel bike.
50mm Schwalbe G-One Bite on 650B wheels. End up at about same diameter as 700x40mm so the geo of the bike is not messed up. 535g for each tire which is not much more than the same tire in the 700x40mm size.
I am a big fan of 650B wheels with wide tires. Great on and offroad. Pirelli‘s Gravel H in 45mm are my go-to.
To me, gravel is off-road. 😂
The thing to consider is how and where and even when the bike will be ridden. I'll be taking my bike everywhere and while I love speed, getting to my destination matters more.
I'm currently on 26" wheels and I plan to make the front tyre wider than the rear; seeking to nail A/Ts. My trails are dusty and sandy in the dry season whilst becoming muddy and full of puddles in the rainy season. I'm just amazed that some will complain when their location gives them mouthwatering options...😢
Well, these are my thoughts.😊
IKONs are just so buzzy, sounding and feeling, when rolling on pavement or hardback. can't recommend enough a set of Rene herse 48's on a crux.
Fwiw I run 2.1 ThunderBurts and none of the comparisons ring true. They are the same weight as a Schwalbe G-one R in 45mm and are easily faster in terms of rolling resistance than almost every gravel tire out there and you still get the cushed ride feel and lower puncture risk.
Nice one! I would try the RaceKings if they fit :)
I think you hit the nail on the head 👌
That's my very question but reverse. What is the best gravel tire/ width on a mountain bike 🤔
I have a specialized rockhopper base 2025 and trying to find out if it would make a better hybrid than a hybrid would make as a mountain bike 🤔
If so then there's no need for me to keep a trek fx 2 2023
I would actually recommend 33C Limus if you're riding snow (or a fatbike). The tyres cut through the snow and the big knobs hook up really well. The in-between tyre sizes just kinda make things harder--they don't float on top of the snow like fatbikes do, and they don't cut through to the hardpack underneath like CX tyres.
Gravel is better on 33c. Cross riders know it. Gravel Worlds won on 33c.
@@thedownunderverse I've had a good experience at 40mm, but I don't think I'll go much beyond that. My next bike will be an all-road, and I'm sure I'll be perfectly fine from 30-40mm. If I want more than that, I'll grab my MTB.
Maxxis ikon run faster than gravel tyres , it's the casing that makes them faster than gravel tyres, the crux is the limitations. My gt grade with ikons rolls almost as fast on the road as my pathfinders. You just need a better gravel frame to gain the advantages.
I have the ultimate gravel bike, trek super cal gen 1. Its ready for when i want to go single track or gravel. Gravel bikes are just another reason to spend more money.
Lfg been waiting for this
Great feedback. Pretty content with the S-W Pathfinder 42s w Roval Terra CLX on my Crux as as my one wheelset. Too lazy to swap a second road wheelset or a more XC wheelset. Also, will "re-subscribe" once I figure out if you're the Crux guy again. ;)
Nonsense. You strapped on anchors for comparison.
Try some Maxxis ASPEN ST or Race King Protection with a nice 650B Carbon wheelset, it will makes a huge difference ;)
I like 650b 2.1" Vittoria Mezcal on my gravel bike
This is the way, though I can fit 700c * 2.25, the tire rules...
Can you use a mountain bike wheel as a replacement for a 700c gravel wheel? I'm a big lad, and keep destroying my rims. I would thing mountain bike wheels would be stronger.
Not really, they have different axle sizes. Look into getting your own wheels laced up, pair 32 spokes with some strong rims and they'll hold
@@michaelmechex Perfect, thanks for that.
It seems the one bike to do it all is becoming a thing. Maybe in part because of the ridiculous prices of new bikes. Gravel bikes and endurance bikes have become close in geometry, and that may indeed negate the need for a 2nd bike. MTBs are a different story imo. Or at least I think it is challenging to have just one bike for road, gravel and difficult off road where you may want different gearing, wider handlebars and suspension.
Ikon aren't the right tire for this. They're a decent training mtb tire, not a low rolling resistance race tire like race king. So obviously you can't be amazed.
Common sense tells anyone that tire choice will be determined by the nature of the course you are riding/competing on. for example, on a personal note, I live much of the year in Colorado where we have some pretty rough "gravel" courses and I appreciate having mountain bike tires.
I also spend a good deal of time in northern Thailand, where, gravel racing is as much as 40 percent pavement/concrete and smoother gravel to packed dirt. I certainly don't need a mountain bike width/weight tire for these courses. A 40mm tire is more than enough.
At the gravel world Championship race in Belgium a month or so ago, some riders were on road bikes and even 38mm tires. While I, along with some others, personally had the opinion the course was too tame, mountain bike sized tires would have been ridiculous. "gravel" bikes and gravel riding and racing covers a very wide spectrum and one set of tires won't take you to top level performance in all situations.
great video, great insights, keep up the good work.
PS: haters gonna hate
47mm pathfinder may be a good sweet spot
No general right or wrong. Completely dependent upon where you ride. For where I live, I ride much more on my monster gravel bike with 2.25” tyres than my gravel bike wearing 45c tyres. But that’s because of where I ride.
I have the luxury to be able to own a gravel bike and a hardtail MTB, so not putting MTB tires on my gravel bike any time soon. On technical terrain, i much prefer a proper mtb.
I'm pretty annoyed with the whole wide tires thing. I like to ride the bare minimum needed for the terrain I'm riding down to about 40c. I like to ride slicks too. My goto race tire is either a Strade Bianci or a 44c Rene Hersch Snoqualimie Xtra light. I may throw on a 45c G-One RS if it's going to be rough. If you're riding smooth gravel roads you're not going to go faster on a 2.X MTB tire than you are on a 40c Strade Bianci. If you riding what you're riding the video or some single track then sure go bigger, but like you said, just ride the MTB.
I think the best way to go about this is to pick the tire that makes you the happiest while riding. If you’re not a pro racer, there’s no need to overthink it.
Anyone hailing wide tires saying they have lower RR even on the road and not mentioning that the rule says "provided the pressure is EQUAL" is a fraud. Equal pressure means running mtb tires on pressures that will fu*k you up big time on rough terrain and road imperfections because as has been experimentally proved and theoretically argued (by none other than Silca on their blog for example), the wider the tire WITH THE SAME PRESSURE the harder the bumps feel because of the mass of air and rubber that has to be displaced. Try pumping a 50mm tire to 3bars and then do the same with a CX tire. Funny thing is that the 2.2" Continental Race King Performance tested in 2023 by BRR has higher RR across the board compared to my 40mm Challenge Gravine and the same applies to the 2.0" Race King. With tubeless I can run crazy low pressures offroad, handle fall/winter weather infinitely better and then pump it up for road and be decently quick AND comfortable, unlike on a MTB tire.
Spot on. It’s getting stupid. 33c is the way to go. 👌🏻
Depends on what im doing. Most of the time I ride 90% road - 10% offroad. So a fast gravel tire suits me the most.
Race Big Sugar next year and revisit this idea.
Big Sugar 2023 Pro womens was won on 40s
@ Cool. It’s probably been won on 33s and cantis back in the day. Every pro I saw this year ran the biggest tire that would fit. The descents were treacherous for me on 50s and I’m a fairly good descender.
@@Timmeh2Buck it’s just weird that gravel racing has been around for 10+ years and the pros were all mostly using 40s up until 2023 and winning
Did they change the race route in 2024? It looked brutal
38 mm Rene Herse
40mm anyday!
33mm !
The problem is most people got influenced from “professional racers” using MTB tires on the lifetime Grand Prix Series….which are super chunky 100 mile + gravel and MTB races. 99.9% of RUclips commenters ain’t riding on…
The gravel world championships was were just won on 40 mm tires. Great honest review and reality check here
He’s using a slow tire. My bike can’t clear 2.2 RaceKing ProTections, but it can fit the 2.1 Thunder Burt Super Grounds. I rode those most of the summer and compared them to the 45mm Maxxis Ramblers I used before and the Thunder Burts were slightly faster on a few gravel areas I timed them on. Felt noticeably better on rougher gravel too. That tire doesn’t have a ton of tread so I’m assuming it’s down to the wider contact patch.
Actually, Voss won Gravel Worlds on 33c. Cross sizes are where it’s at
What was used to win the gravel worlds doesn't matter at all. Van der Poel could have won using his cx bike, but that doesn't mean it was the best bike for the job. He's the 7x cx world champion. Have you seen him launch an attack at Paris-Roubaix and glide over the terrible terrain at 55 km/h? Does that mean I should ride it on a road bike as well? Absolutely not.
@@michaelmechex of course it matters. If one cares at all about efficiency.
@ my point is the wider tire is “always better” trend is bullshit
No bro! Apples and oranges, get a clue.
Cycling is so complicated! 😂😂
truth is you just picked slow mtb tires.
Yes, just bot maxxis they are slow! Running thunder burt 2.1 on my MOG and it’s great! I won’t run maxxis again, only sponsored riders run maxxis 😂
This guys doesn’t actually know what his talking about. Noticed this on a couple of vids now