This is my thinking exactly. As soon as heard blue / gold to white. I honestly think its a reference to that putting it in UK vs US as an Easter egg / meme
"Who was Shallan's Mother" Christian over here acting like we all don't already know what he's gonna say... To be fair, I also subscribe to the Chanarach theory.
Shout out to Jake for speaking my truth. I really picked up on it with Kaladin's boots, and so many people found that ish cute. It's definitely the stereotypical noble trope that it's just so natural for her. I don't think people understand the realities of a caste system that they're in. But I also agree that she would be so boring if she was more self aware.
To be fair, Shallan had basically never been allowed to leave her yard before minus a few festivals every two years. I don’t think she’s a bad person. I think she has literally never had the chance to be around people other than her family and a couple servants.
Every time I get to the part where Kaladin points this out to Shallan, I want him to mention the boots (or even the party when she first arrives)! Unfortunately, he's too stuck on his recent imprisonment to make that argument, but to his credit, that'd be in the forefront of my mind, too.
Re: Blue and Gold vs. White dress - in the hardcover I have, the early scene has Shallan's mom in a dress of white, but later in the book (chapter 88) there's a mention of "Red carpet. Once white." at the start of a paragraph, and the color of the dress is mentioned as "blue and gold" in there.
If you're going to go so far into the weeds for looney theories as to Shallan's mom then go all the way. Her mom is Vin; having been "Returned" by Endowment.
Just to add to the discourse. I have the ebook collection of Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, and Oathbringer all bundled into one book. This edition has "a woman in blue and gold".
Elokar and Nale would be funny because he would have to keep him in line and prevent him from breaking the rules while also being unable to act out on his dislike of Elokar. If they were assigned by someone to work together, Nale would be unable to just abandon him. Elokar would be like a Cremling barnacle
Nobody mentioned that Shallan's mom was killed with a shardblade, so that means her dad covered that up as well. So did he go after the eyes like the Weeper or did he give her the Red Viper Treatment?
The clue to Shallans mom is a Herald that i found on my last reread is pretty strong imo. All through the books people use a Heralds name and body part as an exclamation or curse. Shallan says, "mother soul!" in that same manner. She also refers to Testament in the safe as her mothers soul. Well Chans body focus also happens to be the soul. Ive never seen anyone else point this out.
US hard cover copyright 2014. Contradiction within the same book that I caught as I am finishing my re-read of WoR. Chapter 10, page 136 (flashback sequence discussed in this episode) : "Father carried Shallan over the body of a woman in white." Chapter 88, page 1059 (confronting her past in Urithiru): "Shallan walked to the other corpse, the one facedown in the beautiful dress of blue and gold."
So I believe the reason for the change is the carpet was supposed to be white. Leatherbound will have blue and gold as the dress. Heralds are also easy to kill without their blades. They are highly invested beings who get to do nothing with the power. Also, sadly the Rock novella isn’t coming until 2025 or 26. Sanderson is working on Secret Project 5.
On behalf of Jimmy, I think you need to add "Gavilar is resurrected from his soulcast statue" to the bingo card. Whether or not he then becomes Odium's champion is another matter. And I agree on the spren death - the obvious first thought would be Sil but I think the Stormfather makes more sense, with Dalinar dying and his spren being killed with him. With the Stormfather dead, stormlight is not replenished and things are, you know, not great going into the second arc.
2014 1st Edition Hardback, Chapter 10 white, Chapter 88 blue and gold. Chapter 10 was a flashback while chapter 88 was Shallan recreating the scene with her lightweaving to remember what happened. Which one is more accurate? Or was chapter 10 a mistake that got caught later?
1:25:15 my theory is that she already knows the desolations are her fault and the 5th ideal will be her saying that it was a consequence of killing her mother but "it's not my fault"
1) Jake and Jimmy need to be on together sometime. You can have a three way conversation 2) Lift/Dalinar movie already exists. It’s called What About Bob. Lift is Bob and Dalinar is Dr. Leo Marvin
Re the lullaby. Shallon and Kaladin in the cubby she cut in the side of the chasm, it’s so small that they have to sit with his arms around her and she goes to sleep…the Wind(runner) will rock your basket. Brandon’s foreshadowing skills and tools are amazing!
Best episode yet!!! You convinced me! I’m not easy to convince but that dress color change blew my freakin’ mind!!!! The world ended and Shallan WAS to blame. PS - Michael Kramer is amazing and Lift is hysterical! Just sayin’.
My Kindle version (I’m from the US) says Blue and Gold! As for the discrepancies that you’re having, I think the versions with “White” are just the ones that were printed before the change, and it has nothing to do with region. Same with the audiobook - it was recorded before the book was released, so it has the old version.
You probably know this… typically in bingo each person has a random board so they aren’t all the same. So… maybe we need a bit of programming to generate those or it would be fun if we could pick what we want on our board from a list (25 spots and you need 5 in a row to win) and then make it ourself and post our board to a group. Maybe, Christian, you make little squares of each thing - ex: “sus cremling” or “Chanarach is Shallan’s mom” and maybe we can all pick something guaranteed for the “free” square. I’m thinking we can say what page we get bingo to see who won - perhaps we put a page number for each space we get.
Re Shallan not thinking of others. Part of her trauma is due to her father abusing her siblings every time Shallan does something wrong and how this affects her. I do think she cares for others close to her but she has that classist/racist opinion of everyone not being equal. I also do think people who are mentally unwell can be incredibly introspective.
My Gollancz UK paperback edition says white. LOL love this mystery, great work guys. It MUST be important if it bugged Brandon enough to change it. But which is real and which is misdirection...
This one was unhinged. As in: the door to the stormshelter got blown wide open and it's somewhere on the other side of Roshar now... They're looking for the door, Christian. They want their door back.
In Polish hardcover from 2020 in 10th chapter: "w bieli" (in white). In 88th chapter: "w pięknej niebiesko-złotej sukni" (in beautiful blue and gold dress).
I had to check all my versions, which are American, and they all said white. Also I always thought that shallan’s mom killed the other person first and that is why there was blood because if shallan killed him then there wouldn’t have been any blood from him either Edit: yo, thanks for reading my spam read
@@codywatkins17 I got the impression that it was Lin actually. Mom and the Skybreaker decide to kill Shallan, maybe Shallan screams or something, Lin bursts in, fights the Skybreaker, who was the one originally going to kill her, while they are busy fighting mom decides to finish the job, Shallan in a panic summons Testament as a Blade and stabs her.
The best case for heralds being able to have children, in my opinion, is the Idrian Royal Locks on Nalthis. The Returned on Nalthis are cognitive shadows, much like Heralds; they can have children. There’s a WOB about this in the Warbreaker Annotations. Two different sets of magic pointing to the same direction. I’m curious to see how Honour and the Heralds thought it would be a good idea to pit 10 humans against hundreds of fused on Braize. Seems dumb. Of course they’d be captured and tortured. We’re probably not getting answers on this until arc 2. There’s multiple reference points saying the final desolation was inevitable. I’d like to know why that was so. There’s an epigraph from Taravangian’s Diagram which says “the desolation can and will sit where it will” or something similar. There’s also Thaidakar in the book 5 prologue saying he’s not sure how much they actually catalysed the desolation (with axindweth giving Ulim to Venli I think). If it was inevitable, I think Shallan might be able to forgive herself for killing Chana assuming Chana is mummy davar. Hopefully this will be answered in Book 5.
*** Spoilers ahead ***Now that the prologue was officially released, we can compare it to the prologue he released two years ago. A notable change was the description of Shalash. In the previously released prologue, they described her with flaming red hair for some reason Brandon took that out in the main draft. Thought you would find that interesting..
US large paperback 2017 version here: “Father carried Shallan over the body of a woman in blue and gold.”
This is fucking wild. Like Ruin screwing with things. Maybe the ORIGINAL is the truth rather than the most current version
The white / blue and gold detail is all I need to be 100% convinced!!!!!
I’d love to have longer episodes like this one more often! It was great
Audiobook version has white dress. Its like that internet meme a few years back where people saw different colours.
This is my thinking exactly. As soon as heard blue / gold to white. I honestly think its a reference to that putting it in UK vs US as an Easter egg / meme
@@ErragallI thought of the meme dress too…. But didn’t consider it could be an intentional troll… omg
"Who was Shallan's Mother"
Christian over here acting like we all don't already know what he's gonna say...
To be fair, I also subscribe to the Chanarach theory.
blue and gold is breaking my mind
Shout out to Jake for speaking my truth. I really picked up on it with Kaladin's boots, and so many people found that ish cute. It's definitely the stereotypical noble trope that it's just so natural for her. I don't think people understand the realities of a caste system that they're in. But I also agree that she would be so boring if she was more self aware.
To be fair, Shallan had basically never been allowed to leave her yard before minus a few festivals every two years. I don’t think she’s a bad person. I think she has literally never had the chance to be around people other than her family and a couple servants.
Yes!! It hit me hardest during her argument with Kaladin when they were stuck in the chasm.
Every time I get to the part where Kaladin points this out to Shallan, I want him to mention the boots (or even the party when she first arrives)! Unfortunately, he's too stuck on his recent imprisonment to make that argument, but to his credit, that'd be in the forefront of my mind, too.
Re: Blue and Gold vs. White dress - in the hardcover I have, the early scene has Shallan's mom in a dress of white, but later in the book (chapter 88) there's a mention of "Red carpet. Once white." at the start of a paragraph, and the color of the dress is mentioned as "blue and gold" in there.
Mine is exactly the same
If you're going to go so far into the weeds for looney theories as to Shallan's mom then go all the way. Her mom is Vin; having been "Returned" by Endowment.
Just to add to the discourse. I have the ebook collection of Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, and Oathbringer all bundled into one book. This edition has "a woman in blue and gold".
I have the ebook bundle that’s all four in one epub and it’s also blue and gold. I’m aghast.
Elokar and Nale would be funny because he would have to keep him in line and prevent him from breaking the rules while also being unable to act out on his dislike of Elokar. If they were assigned by someone to work together, Nale would be unable to just abandon him. Elokar would be like a Cremling barnacle
Congrats on finding this detail guys!!
And what do we find in the French 2023-2024 edition? "bleu et or" in chapters 10 and 88 🎉
Yo, audio aint bad
The narrator for The Lies of Locke Lamora is soooooo good too and I don't hear that one mentioned enough, so here I am. lol
Nobody mentioned that Shallan's mom was killed with a shardblade, so that means her dad covered that up as well. So did he go after the eyes like the Weeper or did he give her the Red Viper Treatment?
I have to say, that the best buddy interactions that I’ve ever read came from Steven Erikson, in the Malazan series.
Possibly a cliche choice, but Tehol and Bugg get me every time :D
@@joshwhite8862 😆
The clue to Shallans mom is a Herald that i found on my last reread is pretty strong imo. All through the books people use a Heralds name and body part as an exclamation or curse. Shallan says, "mother soul!" in that same manner. She also refers to Testament in the safe as her mothers soul. Well Chans body focus also happens to be the soul. Ive never seen anyone else point this out.
US hard cover copyright 2014. Contradiction within the same book that I caught as I am finishing my re-read of WoR.
Chapter 10, page 136 (flashback sequence discussed in this episode) : "Father carried Shallan over the body of a woman in white."
Chapter 88, page 1059 (confronting her past in Urithiru): "Shallan walked to the other corpse, the one facedown in the beautiful dress of blue and gold."
So I believe the reason for the change is the carpet was supposed to be white. Leatherbound will have blue and gold as the dress.
Heralds are also easy to kill without their blades. They are highly invested beings who get to do nothing with the power.
Also, sadly the Rock novella isn’t coming until 2025 or 26. Sanderson is working on Secret Project 5.
On behalf of Jimmy, I think you need to add "Gavilar is resurrected from his soulcast statue" to the bingo card. Whether or not he then becomes Odium's champion is another matter.
And I agree on the spren death - the obvious first thought would be Sil but I think the Stormfather makes more sense, with Dalinar dying and his spren being killed with him. With the Stormfather dead, stormlight is not replenished and things are, you know, not great going into the second arc.
2014 1st Edition Hardback, Chapter 10 white, Chapter 88 blue and gold.
Chapter 10 was a flashback while chapter 88 was Shallan recreating the scene with her lightweaving to remember what happened. Which one is more accurate? Or was chapter 10 a mistake that got caught later?
I think it was a mistake caught later, because the carpet is white. The dress shouldn't be the same color as the carpet.
1:25:15 my theory is that she already knows the desolations are her fault and the 5th ideal will be her saying that it was a consequence of killing her mother but "it's not my fault"
I like it!
1) Jake and Jimmy need to be on together sometime. You can have a three way conversation
2) Lift/Dalinar movie already exists. It’s called What About Bob. Lift is Bob and Dalinar is Dr. Leo Marvin
Re the lullaby. Shallon and Kaladin in the cubby she cut in the side of the chasm, it’s so small that they have to sit with his arms around her and she goes to sleep…the Wind(runner) will rock your basket. Brandon’s foreshadowing skills and tools are amazing!
Best episode yet!!! You convinced me! I’m not easy to convince but that dress color change blew my freakin’ mind!!!! The world ended and Shallan WAS to blame. PS - Michael Kramer is amazing and Lift is hysterical! Just sayin’.
My new US trade paperback version Words of Radiance has Blue and Gold.
My Kindle version (I’m from the US) says Blue and Gold! As for the discrepancies that you’re having, I think the versions with “White” are just the ones that were printed before the change, and it has nothing to do with region. Same with the audiobook - it was recorded before the book was released, so it has the old version.
You probably know this… typically in bingo each person has a random board so they aren’t all the same. So… maybe we need a bit of programming to generate those or it would be fun if we could pick what we want on our board from a list (25 spots and you need 5 in a row to win) and then make it ourself and post our board to a group. Maybe, Christian, you make little squares of each thing - ex: “sus cremling” or “Chanarach is Shallan’s mom” and maybe we can all pick something guaranteed for the “free” square. I’m thinking we can say what page we get bingo to see who won - perhaps we put a page number for each space we get.
I wanna hear more Jake-Shallan analysis!
Re Shallan not thinking of others. Part of her trauma is due to her father abusing her siblings every time Shallan does something wrong and how this affects her. I do think she cares for others close to her but she has that classist/racist opinion of everyone not being equal. I also do think people who are mentally unwell can be incredibly introspective.
Shout out to Freelancer York, RvB was the shit. RIP RT
My Gollancz UK paperback edition says white. LOL love this mystery, great work guys. It MUST be important if it bugged Brandon enough to change it. But which is real and which is misdirection...
I have the US mass market paperback and it says blue and gold.
Totally on board with the dress theory 😂 if the leather bound says white, it's defo because Brandon thinks it was too obvious
My first edition hard cover says "white" and my mass market trade paperback says "blue and gold"
The Way you describe Shallan is just describing the majority of wealthy people 😂😂😂
what happened to the animated backgrounds?
is the dress blue and gold or white and black?
The inconsistency in the book editions remind me of how Ruin would change things that were not written in metal! Just some food for thought.
Nice!
Waiting for the discussion on the pre-release chapters feels like training for waiting on the back 5 Stormlight books.....
This one was unhinged. As in: the door to the stormshelter got blown wide open and it's somewhere on the other side of Roshar now...
They're looking for the door, Christian. They want their door back.
In Polish hardcover from 2020 in 10th chapter: "w bieli" (in white).
In 88th chapter: "w pięknej niebiesko-złotej sukni" (in beautiful blue and gold dress).
US paperback, 1st edition, blue & gold
Oh man, if you guys haven't listened to the Dresden Files audio books, James Marsters is an amazing narrator!
I have US hardcover and paperback and they are different. Hardcover has white and paperback has blue and gold.
Shalash gets the dustbringer flashback chapters, not Chanarach.
I realized this about 3/4 of the way through the episode
I had to check all my versions, which are American, and they all said white.
Also I always thought that shallan’s mom killed the other person first and that is why there was blood because if shallan killed him then there wouldn’t have been any blood from him either
Edit: yo, thanks for reading my spam read
Thanks for the great suggestion!
@@codywatkins17 I got the impression that it was Lin actually. Mom and the Skybreaker decide to kill Shallan, maybe Shallan screams or something, Lin bursts in, fights the Skybreaker, who was the one originally going to kill her, while they are busy fighting mom decides to finish the job, Shallan in a panic summons Testament as a Blade and stabs her.
The best case for heralds being able to have children, in my opinion, is the Idrian Royal Locks on Nalthis. The Returned on Nalthis are cognitive shadows, much like Heralds; they can have children. There’s a WOB about this in the Warbreaker Annotations. Two different sets of magic pointing to the same direction.
I’m curious to see how Honour and the Heralds thought it would be a good idea to pit 10 humans against hundreds of fused on Braize. Seems dumb. Of course they’d be captured and tortured. We’re probably not getting answers on this until arc 2.
There’s multiple reference points saying the final desolation was inevitable. I’d like to know why that was so. There’s an epigraph from Taravangian’s Diagram which says “the desolation can and will sit where it will” or something similar. There’s also Thaidakar in the book 5 prologue saying he’s not sure how much they actually catalysed the desolation (with axindweth giving Ulim to Venli I think). If it was inevitable, I think Shallan might be able to forgive herself for killing Chana assuming Chana is mummy davar. Hopefully this will be answered in Book 5.
The carpet is white with blood on it. A white dress on white carpet doesnt make sense visually. It would bother Brandon enough to fix it.
*** Spoilers ahead ***Now that the prologue was officially released, we can compare it to the prologue he released two years ago. A notable change was the description of Shalash. In the previously released prologue, they described her with flaming red hair for some reason Brandon took that out in the main draft. Thought you would find that interesting..
Didn’t miss an announcement on the next episode?
I have the Tor hardcover 15th print got it last year and it says White.
No need to trash Kramer and Reading. They're amazing. Lack of Honor on your part. Fill your time with more positive thoughts.
Wasn’t trashing them, just said that I prefer Pacey’s narration of First Law that’s all. I respect the hell out of Kramer and Reading.
What are the odds that y'all would read word-for-word the one chapter with the color difference???? Lol unbelievable luck!
my paperback is blue and gold
First edition US hardcover says woman in white
In the German translation (paperback) it's blue and gold 💙💛
I have the spanish version and it says "azul y oro" (blue and gold)
5:30 Jeff Hays just blows me away. @SoundboothTheaterLive
Thor paperback, 2015, blue&gold in both scenes.
Blue and gold on my e-reader
Mass market edition is blue and gold
I have a soft cover edition - which reads women in blue and gold
And then I have a hardcover edition that reasons women in white.
Help I'm lost in Roshar and my guides have abandoned me for 2 weeks! Where's the next episode ? Lol
Apologies for the delay, it has been a scheduling nightmare! Just a few days away now.
The German language Audible audiobook (2014) says the woman is wearing white! Sus...
And then he took red hair out of the prologue too. Why is he doing this to us?!?!
Audiobook says white
Jake