Understandably a lot of people have commented about the weird camera effects and hat in this video. The subject of this video to me is very much about perspective and how we see things. I suppose that I wanted to make this video seem a little different to my normal videos. Foreign. Strange. I wanted the watchers to view this separately from my other videos and not feel on familiar ground. Perhaps it didn't work, but that was the idea.
scholagladiatoria even if i agree with your opinions on M1 and hmb as they are point by systems, i would disagree about modern béhourd (silent d by the way) since it is a ground or give system. You say that a medival fighters would "stab in gaps" rightly perhaps as it's what the documents tell us but i can say from experience that you will not be able to touch the gaps let alone go through the mail and/or gambesson before being run through by your opponent. That is unless he is on the gound or injured which is want a ground or give system considers a win. So yes point by systems are inacurate representations of actual combat but ground or give systems are as practical a rendition of armoured combat as safely feasible and I'd encourage any HEMA practitioner to take part and test the feasibility of some of their techniques
..But pretty sure that the participants in these tournaments would have a decent level of fighting skill - before joining. And that the rules in combat would likely be based on demonstrating that skill to some extent, in a very limited ruleset or focused on specific techniques executed (relatively) safely against an opponent. To go the other way around and say, well, maybe they learned techniques for blows and wrestling purely from the tournament, from following these rules and executing a point marking blow to an armored helmet, that some talented competition-fighters then would use unmodified in an actual fight later.. I'm not sure if that's even likely. It's just skipping over the fact that there'd be some minimal awareness of some kind of fighting system, and likely some training in it, involved before the competitions take place. Not that there aren't sagas or historical sources that mention fighters decending into an insane brawl, fighting like animals and biting each other in the end, etc. But it's described as something barbaric and ridiculous, uncultured, even in.. year 800 in Norway. Just saying that people trained fighting systems of some kind, and then would design tournament rules based on what would require control, skill and strength in that system. There's all kinds of techniques in chinese martial arts that take immense skill to perform, but that are not (and can't be) used in this way in a real fight, for example. But they've designed systems that seek to allow you to train safely. And then to apply the technique in a restricted sparring type duel, safely, while performing it in a way that - when you modify it - then has obvious combat application. And if you "master" that in training - you're still an amateur. You haven't fought an actual opponent yet with the skill you've developed, explored how it works, after you actually have the potential - at this point as an amateur - to do it. I'm saying that just because a fist-fight in a schoolyard authentically decends into who can hammer their fists down over someone until they cover their heads, before someone throws themselves at their legs so everyone fall over while screaming loudly, etc. That's not an argument for saying that this is how real fighting naturally develops. It's like arguing that the most sublime and superior martial art is one where the opponents don't have any kind of trained skill with anything. It's very zen, I'll give you that, but it doesn't really make sense.
Love the theory. In practice, it’s giving me a headache. I’m ten minutes in, gotten the gist of what you’re saying, finished the advertisement, and I’m signing off.
Hey there mate, I have finally finished working and could sit down and watch this video. I think you did a very good job and I actually now agree with most (not all) the points you bring up. Now I gotta go out film my next video (in a pizzeria while eating pizza, I'm not joking xD) but as soon as I get a chance (soon) I will tell you what points I agree with and what I don't. Thanks pal! Have a good one! Metatron/Metaman/MetalGear/Metaltron(?)/Raph ;) ps: Your recent video about the butt and the bayonet is priceless xD xD xD
I wish more people on the internet treated each other with the same respect and cordiality shown by the Metatron and Matt in these comments. Pointing out where you believe someone is incorrect or perhaps more accurately where you believe a colleague may not have considered certain contexts for the material covered in the discussion, doesn't have to devolve into bickering. Cheers to both gentlemen, I'm enjoying the content of both creators in a positive environment.
Honestly, I always thought your "anger" was directed more to how the sport is presented to the public than to the fighters/athletes. I believe you even said that, although I might remember wrongly.
...oh. I thought Matt would fight Metatron in full plate. Got excited there for a moment until I realilzed what the video is actually about. What a pity.
They both train in HEMA. But yes, even Ralph knows that Matt would probably plow through him. Even Thomas from Medieval Review knows that Matt would win against him, and he has his own club.
In that regard I always wanted to see them have at least a side thing totally focused on grappling. As funny as seeing them pointlessly bash each other over the head can be. Also in ones where the rules are fall over and you are out I'm always surprised by the lack of tripping or attempting to hook the legs especially in 2 on 1 situations.
It's mostly about the skill level. Twe lower the skill is between the combatants, the more you see hugging. If you check out 5v5 finals in BotN, for example, you wont see much of that.
Hello. There is another type of Medieval fighting that we do at medieval festival, (in Romania) called tap fights. You get points for a clean blow to the head or body. The difference to full contact is that you fight until a set ammount of points so you don't go all out attacking. HEMA can play a big part in this type of fighting. You are not allowed to stab. It is usually done wearing a gambeson, helmut, gauntlets and sometimes maile. It is one on one.
Depends on the rules and the weapon they are using I'd say. Matt doesn't specialise in Longswords if I'm correct and Skall does Longswords, so if everyone was using their main weapons, I'd give it to Skall, assuming his leg is fine because a Longsword is going to win in reach.
Very nice video. I felt it was a reasonable explanation. Having watched a few reaction videos, it was nice to see the angle that this was specifically tournament fighting and not real combat - which makes a LOT of sense.
"If you like unicycling while playing the bagpipes, go and do it" You say that in jest, but there is someone in my town who dresses up in various costumes (always with a kilt though!) and unicycles around the downtown area while playing the bagpipes. He calls himself "the unipiper."
Well this is impressive, you've tackled a difficult and complex issue that really divides people and you've done it comprehensively and reasonably. This is one of the best videos on the topic and in HEMA generally that I've ever seen. I can't fault anything you say, it's all accurate and bears out my own thinking and personal experience. Last winter I got fed up with the keyboard wanking that I was seeing around the topic of M1/BOTN and I went and trained with some of the English BOTN guys, and everything you're saying sounds familiar to me. They didn't make any claims about what they were doing being lethal historical armoured combat, (that's actually people who don't do it just commenting on RUclips on their behalf) they didn't even really have much of a sense of the sources on Beaufort/tourneys, they just enjoyed getting into armour and smashing the fuck into each other with metal swords. After I crippled one of their guys in the first minute of them throwing me into their training, they were also pretty respectful and inquisitive about HEMA. These are tough, big, strong sons of bitches and they're a great crew of people, and I can't recommend highly enough that if you're a HEMA practitioner like myself, you give this a go at least once. I had to take 4 days out with flights to do it for a weekend, and I camped out in the snow in a field and it was all worth it. Exactly as you say, Matt, it gives you a perspective on armoured combat that you can't get in any way other than taking and receiving full strength strikes in armour. For all the technical differences in how they go about it (which are significant) they do capture, I think, a sense of the aims that 14th/15th century tournaments had; to test nerve and strength and to keep the warrior class active when not at war. I don't like to make or hear arguments from authority, but on this topic there is too much heat and very little light, I would encourage everyone to give this a go before criticising it; it might not be what we in HEMA consider historically accurate, but it has value and it's harder than it looks, a lot harder than sitting behind a computer armchair analysing what you see. So, thanks for this video Matt, you're well regarded in the HEMA community and I'm really glad that you've put this out there, hopefully as you suggest it might even advance our own practice. Cheers.
Well put! Whenever I see HEMA people bashing HMB/IMCF, I always have to wonder if they also discount jousting because it doesn't represent what was done on the medieval battlefield. (Definitely not aimed at Matt!) I've inquired about historical sources for rules as well (to little effect), but hopefully this idea gets more traction now. Anyway, combat to the death wasn't the only martial activity that the knights took part in and I'm really glad to see a prominent HEMA person actually acknowledging that in the full contact sports context.
When you all claim what you do is a SPORT...yes, there is no issues between HEMA and what you do. The issue comes when you all claim things BEYOND it being a sport. The issue is, there are people in your group who claim otherwise.
+ColdNapalm42 -- Just to be clear, are you saying that the early attempts to explore the tournament aspect of the medieval knightly culture cannot possibly add anything to HEMA, even context-wise? Because that's what it sounds like you are saying.
Your nuanced approach on almost all topics is my absolute favourite thing about your channel and your approach to making videos. Thank you for this video Matt.
I've been an avid Martial Arts (HEMA included) enthusiast my whole life. I've trained and sparred armed and unarmed, eastern and western styles, and I've always wanted to be able to use all these things combined. Buhurt matches allow me to combine all these things, to some extent, while forcing me to stay in the best shape I've ever been. It may look weird for the people who don't understand, but most fighters have a background in some other MA, and once you get used to seeing the person fighting underneath the armor, the whole thing comes to life. Buhurt is a (Historical European) Martial Art in the same way boxing is: a non-lethal, highly contrived, yet still dangerous combat sport. I don't see what all the fuss is about. As a Hemaist and Steelfighter it hurts me to see Buhurt matches being shat on all the time for no good reason. Wanna know how realistic it is? Find a club and ask to attend practice. You'll be surprised by how friendly and supportive the steelfighting community can be.
My god I would love to, at this point I've barely had enough to buy a sword and certainly don't have the 4,000+ $ to buy a harness that is both safe and authentic. If you've got the resources though all the power to you, I envy you.
I don't know about other chapters, but the NY Armored Combat League has full and partial harness and weapon loaners for the team. It might not be the most comfortable (or best smelling) gear you'll see, but if you want to join us money should not be what's stopping you :)
Henrique Nakamura I live in Australia hahaha. Although that does sound awesome, I've definitely been keeping an eye out for a while. I'm definitely not prepared to pack my stuff and join a team tomorrow but definitely something I'm looking at trying in the future.
Hi Matt. I would have to say that your view on the full-contact game is much more well-informed than it was in your previous video about it that I saw and on which I commented. Good job in pointing out that HEMA is about the treatises and the full-contact game is a sport. I think more should be made of the fact that HEMA is a school- and learning- based art, while full-contact fighting is a ruleset for competition. To "compare" them is like comparing eating a steak and fixing a salad. I am not sure what the difference would be if we used rules directly copied from some specific tournament instead of these, which are inspired by them. One thing about the current rules is that they do not limit the techniques used beyond the bounds of safety. There is no regulation, reward, or requirement to match the techniques that can be found in treatises. This will allow the actual fighting to evolve based on the skills and inclinations of the fighters and whatever training they may have had before entering the sport, and then evolve according to the trial and error of attempting to use techniques in the game. This is much like the early days of MMA, where "pure" martial artists found their arts limiting, and things that seemed to be successful took on a new vogue, until someone figured out how to combat it. This is very exciting to me, and, I imagine, a martial arts or fight sport scholar; to see the development of a new martial art/fight sport (call it what you like) right before your eyes! Personal matter of taste: Why do we use steel instead of plastic or wood? i) Steel 2) plastic does not his as hard as steel, and is not steel 3) wood shatters and splinters, and is not steel 4) Steel. We like steel. :) Two nitpicks: what you are calling "ICF" may be the International Medieval Combat Federation, or IMCF. The USA group for that sport it the Armored Combat League, or ACL. I am not sure why the weapons in the full contact game have a reputation for being heavy. Although I will admit it was hard to find a sword I liked in America our first year out, As long ago as 2012 there were very nicely weighted and balanced weapons I found in Europe, and now the IMCF and ACL have rules that enforce a weight range that is about the same as historical averages.
The rules lately have developed in several groups limiting the weapon weights to safer levels that happen to coincide with certain historical averages. And even if you can find some monster weapons, that is more about the individual's taste than the organizers of the sport handing our heavy weapons.
Right now I am looking at the new international HMB guidelines to weapons and they give weight brackets as 1.3-1.7 for single-handed sword and 1.7-2.3 for longsword. "Historical averages" would be 0.8-1.2 for single-handed and 1.4-1.8 for longswords. That is about a half-kilo, a pound difference.
I was at an event, getting drunk with the at the time USA coach for the US BOTN team (we'd done fighting before HEMA was a term, and included a lot of HEMA folk in our early crew) and he said, flat out, "We're not doing historical fighting. We're the new version of the Roman gladiators, fighting to distract the masses"
As someone who does HMB/IMCF for a few years, I really appreciate your video, Matt. There's still some information left out, but I'm glad you did research for this and kept yourself objective on the subject.
M1 is entertainment. People who are going to "call it out" because it isn't historically accurate just look dumb to me. Like Matt said, it isn't lethal. "Look ! They're not even thrusting! Lame!"... well... no kidding, they're not trying to actually kill each other. "Look! MMA is lame! No eye gouging! I could kick Conor McGregor's ass! Just like I did in that video game!" At a certain point, these armchair critics and larping wannabe warriors are getting pretty cringe. (Not referring to Matt here - he seems to understand what reality is vs entertainment / sport)
Smile Titans some people value authenticity and honestly. U probably dont. But whats to disagree about being historically correct and conserving true hostory (even in the form of sport). And if u listened to metatron video, he didnt have a prob with the sport itself, but more with the pretence it would be historically accurate. That would be the same as disinformation, or writing random (more entertaining) info on history books. An other example is watching inaccurate history movies. Yes they are for entertainment, but i do still get pissed if they “rape” known history. Thats just idiocracy at its finest. Deliver Just for the money, just for entertainment is quite mentally underdeveloped imo..
I think, aside from Buhurt, another possible interpretation of what M1 & co are doing is actually Bloßfechten, just with period protection. And it makes a lot of sense: armour is intended to protect from Bloßfechten-techniques, that's why Harnischfechten was developed. And the scoring system also represents this, since you get points for hits on the head, body, etc... Just like in Kendo, where you basically get points for hitting the armour, since the armour was specifically developed to protect the parts of the body which are eligible targets. Nobody criticizes a kendoka for not going for the gaps in the armour. Coming from HEMA myself, I experienced that many of our lot, seeing armour, immediately think of Harnischfechten, which might be true in a HEMA context, but does not have to be so universally. Whether the techniques used by the fighters are martially sound or not is another question, but I personally don't see any problems with using a Bloßfechten scoring system in combination with armour. After all, in HEMA we also don't try to stab under the mask...
Thank you for a balanced and fair account of the phenomenon. And especially for your points about how the form itself can actually teach something. As all training and sparring systems.
Finally some sense. Thank you! I immediately asked Metatron whether he would discount jousting as well, because it doesn't represent what was done on the medieval battlefield, but apparently he responds to videos alone.
Great video and good break-down of what I think - as a practioner of the sport - HMB is all about. As for the points around 11:30 - 14:00 I get what you are saying, but I also disagree with it; HMB is mostly a spectator sport, and by having steel weapons and non-tournament armour the spectacle for the audience is better. I do understand why this might irritate the most hardcore HEMA-people and history enthustiastics, but you have to also admit that they're a tiny minority of the population. If you're trying to create a tournament that attracts big masses, you have to play around the majority. Some sports are dedicated to serve only the people who have fun doing it (for example, Finnish padded-weapons fighting where my own background is in), but HMB is definitely is not amongs those. Its about the spectacle for the audience and the rush for the fighters. Take care!
Not sure I agree, metatron pointed out the repeated and reckless spinning back swings in the video he referenced as being a big reason why it wasn't realistic, I think that regardless of tournament or not, a trained swordsman keeps his form. In a tournament a knight would reference his training, they wouldn't just turn it into a bar room brawl. It might degenerate to that at times but a knight would have everyone watching and would not want to be seen as a sloppy brawler. They would want to exemplify the huge investment that his employers and teachers had made in training him. If you could just put on armor and swing for the fences then what's the point keeping a knight in your service, just give the tough guys in your village swords when you need to go to battle. The m1 guys should get all the respect for putting their health on the line but the skill level is not there from what I have seen.
Dustin Thurmond can I say that it's mostly Russians who do that, the spin is something they like to do to put more force behind the blow, the goal with that is to give people concussions through their armour and well, when there is money on the line they sometimes try to win through TKO rather than points scoring.
Metatron really over-focuses on that "spinning thing." IT is what one guy did in one match, and he won that match. He does nto understand how and why it can be effective, and in that match the fighter overdid it. Metatron shoulud have given that detail a rest a long time ago.
New York Knights Combat after watching that video and a couple others. It literally looks like a spinning backfist with a sword in his hands. I def do NOT want to get into spins, twirls, and pirouettes again (i still feel the same about it) but i do feel like i see a lot of hand to hand combat techniques in these competitions and a lot less fencing techniques. It looks out of place to my perception, personally.
A lot of time in those videos focusing on the spinning, as if that one thing done by that one guy in that one fight was the entire sport in microcosm. As a critique of the individual fighter's choice of attack in that fight is fine, but he really piuts topo much significance on it. This guy doesn't even mention it.
It is a fundamental impossibility to have sparring or tournament fighting that accurately represents historical lethal combat because it would require actual fighting to the death.
Of course. But what you could have is historical tournament fighting that looks more like historical tournament fighting, with historical tournament fighting equipment and rules.
Well, depending on how you feel about criminals on Death Row we could recreate lethal historical battles and combat. It would be a lot cheaper than most of the current means of execution and would mean their deaths have at least some value/benefit to the world. I don't expect many to agree with me in this regard honestly, but I think if someone volunteered for the program (or other experiments like experimental surgeries) we could use their life to benefit humanity.
What if I want to see armored tournament fighting? No one says what they would change from M1/BoN to have armored tournament fighting more realistic. Change to percussive weapons? If I can hit you with a sword, I can hit you with a mace.
honestly the only way we'll get to see that is incorporating MUCH higher tech armor. There have been discussions on the topic... the tech is here, but it's still a bit pricey. Not quite DARPA prices anymore, but still at Olympic Sports gear prices. Armor with built in accelerometers, cut proof undersuits with conductive outer surfaces and 3d0 impact fabric underlayers, computer controls, possibly in built TENS systems to simulate disabling effects.
It's so cool to see a video from someone being objective about a topic and explaining differences between each situations without being totally biased/triggered. Keep up the great work.
You guys miss the point completely. HMB is in no way intended to be a recreation of medieval lethal combat, it is a VERY GOOD recreation of combat a plaisance. The melee rules in particular are almost exactly matched to historical tournaments (except the part about disamament). We have plenty of sources describing beating each other intentionally on the armor with no thrusts and strikes to unarmored bits actually forbidden. Second important note: The tournaments which "steel fighters" (the general self-monnicker in USA for the various leagues) combete in are very close to tournaments actual medieval knights fought in, and they considered it a pretty good way to train for war. Fiore says go fight in tournaments because you build strength and techniques and won't get hurt. The manuals are a slanted view of medieval fighting because they specifically focus on what you need to know for "real" combat that you DIDN'T already learn from fighting tourney since you were a novice squire. If more HEMA people did buhurt then their often terrible redactions of the texts would be a lot better. Third, your point about baleen is way off target...records specify baleen, rebated steel, and sharp steel and there is no reason at all to believe only baleen is authentic. You are wrong that anyone says "This is how medieval knights fought in war." They do say, "This is how medieval knights fought." and that statement is not untrue even if it doesn't tell the whole story.
Also, you should totally fight steel...You are in England? Go find some White Company fighters and try duels, profight, and buhurt. Give each format a real, honest try, then come back and post another video with your thoughts and experiences.
I started doing HMB after also trying Fiore (was less tempting due to the lack of physical exercise that HMB provides in absolute abundance, as well as the intensity and variety provided by HMB - group fights, duels, etc.) and at no point did anyone claim it was HEMA. In fact, the instructor specifically mentioned that it's quite different from HEMA, and the equipment is not fully historical, because you can't thrust, and that changes the entire dynamic of how things work in HMB. The only claim is that it's their interpretation of how you could bring the medieval foot tournament back into the modern age, in a relatively safe way, and if you ask them which other activity it's like, they'll answer MMA rather than HEMA.
I had done a bit of searching after seeing Metatron's video and came across this term bahord (bahurd, behord, however it's spelled), so clearly some practitioners are aware of the idea (I believe it was the Battle Heritage website). I hope this video does go some way to improving matters, but I do sincerely believe that for a long time, the general misunderstanding of the public and many practitioners will hold this activity back.
That's actually a great point! I remember seeing Henry VIII's tournament armour prepared for Field of Cloth of Gold. The original armour intended to be used had plates even on the armpits. It encased the wearer pretty much entirely. It was incredible.
You surprised me here, Matt. I know that you are well-spoken, educated in these matters and are trying to look at everything from more angles, however this time you've outdid yourself. This is an excellent analysis of this sport movement that is so balanced and visibly unbiased that I can hardly imagine anyone doing a better job. You made some pretty strong points here. Thank you for this video.
We just wanna fight that's what armored combat is about for alot of us. Dont care about the rules just want a place for combat. If a new armored combt gets made based on the manuscripts I'll also be doing that . I'm in the process of starting my own where you even have to hike to get to the tournament and can fight other fighters along the way . I Enjoy ur videos thanks for posting .
Great point regarding the differences between sport fighting vs combat. We see the same parallel today with military combatives vs MMA and other combative sports. Each has slightly different techniques and tactics.
Matto Eastono comes to the rescue and brutally dispenses medieval combat red pills all around. Thank you for articulating your thoughts and ides so eloquently and succinctly, Matt.
Baleen is made of keratin, which makes up hair and fingernails in humans, and is a component in the outer layer of skin. Keratin also makes up rhinoceros horn. Apparently, due to its strength and flexibility, it was used by the Inuit of North America to make bows, which were further strengthened with sinew.
Point of order: hmb/imcf combat rules are found in king Rene's tournament manual from the 15th century. We compete in the now resurrected sport of medieval tournament fighting.
Great video, I was very dissapointed in how dismissive Skallagrim was of the sport. I would say Battle of the Nations has brought the idea of the medieval tournament back to life, it has gone from a distant past to living, if modified, history.
I saw both videos too. And you bring better the point I commented in the last one. Thank you for making this video and bring light to a kinda controversial topic in the comunity.
I love Battle of the Nations, and I agree with everything said in this video. 21 vs 21 is the most fun for me, and I think it's the most "realistic" category (before anyone jumps at me - I don't mean to say it's actually realistic, but it's more realistic than the other categories) - they actually stick together in a formation and use some tactics (for example, guys with short weapons start in the front to get in close combat while those with polearms start behind and try to keep the distance). 5 vs 5 is ok, but usually it starts as 5 separate single fights, and whoever manages to get the first takedown gains a huge advantage. 1 vs 1 with swords is utterly retarded, usually it looks like they're just bashing each other without any concern for defense. 1 vs 1 with polearms is much better.
Hello there @Scholagladiatoria, I’m a HMB fighter from Australia, but excluding that i have worked in HEMA, both Fiore de Liberi and Tal Hoeffer and if i were to put HMB as a sport under the microscope, i would have to say it is more akin to modern day mixed martial arts. Before moving on to swordplay, i’ve had about eight years of boxing experience followed by a few years of MMA. At least in my time, and this may not be representative of the rest of the community, but i do feel like they all have their place in the fighting community. As with any martial art, HEMA can be found quite strict in the way it is taught, but HMB does feel quite lax in comparison. This can be a great starting point given that the armour has full coverage when worn appropriately and when worn in HMB sport fighting, you will quickly build up your conditioning to being able to wear it for a relatively substantial amount of time. I am not one for the reactionary culture of youtube, but i was hoping you might be able to discuss your thoughts on sport fighting in the modern sense and maybe draw a connection to HMB. It was a good video by the way, thanks for discussing your thoughts :)
Randomly back on this video again today. I will state this 1. M1 is not exactly HMB but a more UFC style fighting in a modern medieval setting 2. HMB/IMCF are based on rules of historical tournaments, not actual warfare with added rules to protect fighters better. 3. HEMA is not the only way to fight. It is based a lot on noble dueling, but it is not a guarantee way to fight, win, and being better. I have, myself, beaten many good HEMA trained people. One of the reasons is that they limit themselves to interpreting manuals rather than looking on what works better in the moments and armor you are in, your opponent is wearing, and long experience in armor. Good HMB fighters know how to control an opponent in armor, take down, where to hit, and how to take a hit. I also seen many HEMA fighters adopt styles from training in HMB to add to the inventory. It is not HEMA itself that I am bashing: it is this mentality of "I am right and you're wrong, but I haven't truly fought hard in armor. Hema is the one true God of medieval fighting" 4. We are not actually attempting to kill someone. It may seem like it, but we are not trying to kill a fighter. 5. Everything is easier said than done. People can comment on if they know this, do that, etc... it is of course easier in the mind to do than actually facing reality. It takes a lot of consistent training to be able to fight decently in armor and be comfortable in how it all moves and feels. It takes a lot of courage to put the armor on and walk in the arena. A lot of people who haven't faced such things won't understand until it all happens. 6. You won't see actual combat and shouldn't see in armor. It would require people trying to actually kill people which would be murder in this day of age and not acceptable.
I've been interested in hema for a couple of years (tomorrow's my first actual lesson😄) but I like watching stuff like M1. It's just an easy thing to watch without needing too much backstory.
exactly my thought when I first time saw M1. it's not to resemble the medieval war, it's a medieval tournament recreation. and that's why I think it's brilliant. don't get me wrong I love HEMA, the style and the historical representation behind it, but to say you only have to touch your opponent to score and reset the stans is not a very competitive scene, in Boxing, MMA, you receive and deliver the hits without having to separate after every hit. that's why I love you Matt.
This my be a bit random, but anyone who can actually play the bag pipes while riding a unicycle should post a video, because that's sounds incredibly difficult and impressive
SadFace Music You mean the focus and distance changes? Pretty sure that's all they are. Why would anyone go to the trouble of a fake backdrop or even a greenscreen of their own spare room?!
it's RUclips's 'stability' thing. Matt must have forgot a tickbox when it was uploaded, and the 'helpful' stability system is just screwing with a static scene
Thanks on the mention of Buhurt. It would really interest me how the historical sport actually work. Aside the small mentioning in history books and that there were instances were blood feuds ended by both teams using sharp weapons I have seen very little on how they conducted a Buhurt and determined a winner.
I fight for Team Japan in the IMCF. I agree with Matt Easton. The fighting is very much like medieval tournament fighting melee a pied (buhurt) in that blunted steel weapons are used and armor is worn and the goal is to knock opponents to the ground.
You know.. ive been watching you since 10k or so.. and you always keep it classy. im double subbed and I want to again thank you for helping me with my urban fantasy book.
competative steel armoured combat including thrusts and wrestling has been done in holkand since at least 1999, but also in france, australia, us, norway, etc. there is evidence for pulling blows in smithfield and the deeds of haques de lalaing fir instance, also jeu de la hache shows some interesting aspects of the mores and rules of footcombat.
You know what the obvious answer to this is, right? To have your own proper Tournament-style challenge/event at this year's FightCamp... That way you'd get to be involved, it'd be historically accurate, and you could open it up for all the M1-BOTN people to join in, too...
Great video! Unrelated topic question: How did the british cavalry train to not hit their own horse with their swords? Was hitting the horse a constant issue among cavalry? How did they protect the horse from enemy comatants? How did they prepare for having their horse struck down from underneath them?
Sounds like the difference between wrestling, the sport, and street fighting. If you are an accomplished wrestler you don't learn to incorporate a lot of kicks to the groin and eye gouging, but you do learn fundamentals of movement and weight placement etc. that are vital in hand to hand "combat".
From what I know several reinactment groups in Russia are now trying to recreate tournaments. So for the "St. George Tournament" in Moscow they try to follow the rules of XV cenuty German (I suppose) tournaments as close as possible concidering somewhat limited sources and really limited budget (well, they don't have a whole duchy working for half a year to just run this event). And in Vyborg they have a "St. Olaf Tournament" that is more of late XIV - early XV century thing, but only a "foot" part of it.
If anyone, Matt included, is interested in getting involved in HMB in England and Wales search for Battle Heritage on Facebook. We have trained with nylon weapons in the past but, because we tent to strike for the helmet a lot, they have been broken quite regularly.
tbh, i may be wrong, but i never saw a depiction of battle from historical times where they use half swording in pitched battle, its bashing with the swords(which sometimes unrealistically cut trough plate), half swording seems to be more focused on armored duels for civilians found on treatises just having 2 opponents
I'm glad you made this video. I have a lot of respect for Metatron and his knowledge and I enjoy his videos, but I felt a lot of his criticisms of M1 were unnecessary and insensitive, as well as that he didn't really acknowledge the valid objections people made to his video, instead making what I felt were somewhat disingenuous refutations of the more ambiguous statements. While I don't necessarily agree that M1 (which, for what it's worth, I have no real interest in, personally) should be more historically-focused, I can understand why you (and many others) would find that more interesting and I think you handled the issue much more sensitively, and pretty much just better than anyone else I've heard talk about this. I feel like you just about never make a video that isn't knowledgeable and mature about whatever the topic is, even on the videos that are just an excuse for blatant innuendos.
Hi Matt. Love your stuff!! I'm going to throw my two cents into the ring, as I have done HEMA and I currently do ACL (Armored Combat Leagues; what we call it in the states). I can't speak for other groups, but my group fights by a "third point of contact" ruleset, where if you get your opponent to kneel or hit the the ground, he's out. The techniques we use, which include grappling, focus on forcing opponents to the ground, which is historically inspired. Additionally, the armor that we use *must* be historically based, and so hardened spring steel is very common amongst fighters. That said, it is NOT HEMA, and I am fully aware of that, but HEMA currently offers no equivalent for people interested in fighting with armor, at least in my area. So everyone who's on fire for fighting in armor, who might gravitate towards HEMA, instead choose ACL. That said, I think that there needs to be crossover between both HEMA and ACL, because both pursue similar, if not identical interests. I plan on eventually doing both, once funds are in order, so that I can take the techniques from HEMA and apply them to ACL. I think both communities could really grow from that crossover.
Wasn't tournaments from the 12th century to late 14th century done almost exclusively on horse back ( with possibly some personnel on foot)? the whole point was unhorsing the opponents. Charny's writing on the subject deal mostly about who get the horse, and stuff in various situations.
Bernard Emmerich indeed, and the source matt brings up in the form of renes book of the tournament is also on horseback! and based on specifically german styles rene saw in Schaffhausen in 1436, not the norm in france. foot combat DID involve thrusts and probably sharp(ish) weapons ( deeds of jaques de lalaing and combat of the 30)
Matt, I watch Metatron's videos occasionally (not nearly like I watch yours though) and I totally agree that he fell down a hole when he made that video. He is at that point in a RUclips's life where he has a following but is still relatively small. I was really surprised that his video on M1 has so few dislikes. As a person who doesn't have much interest in M1 but a lot in HEMA, I saw a few videos of it and thought it looked kinda cool, like a less serious take on medieval combat. Metatron on the other hand probably also only saw a few videos of it and immediately passes judgement and denounces the entire thing as BS. and his following blindly defends him ferverously by liking his and going to video responses which disagree with him and disliking en masse. I hope you don't do anything like that. I doubt you will though since you're probably one of the few HEMA RUclipsrs who tries to stay objective about things.
I agree with you. I think he just say that one video and extrapolated everything from that one fighter who likes to do that "spinning move." He did not even try to research the style of armor or the construction of it.
Except I feel like he seems to be missing the entire point of M1. He even says that M1 is based on a points system, yet he questions why they don't use techniques like half-swording or use maces and warhammers and pollaxes. Modern day boxing also uses a points system, you know. That's like asking why boxers don't try to gouge each other's eyes out and try to snap each other's necks. Not everything has to adhere to principles of historical warfare. That's the problem with the RUclips HEMA community. It seems like a lot of people lack the ability to think critically for themselves. It really feels like a circlejerk sometimes, with people just regurgitating the same thing over and over again (like the whole spinning thing, community's massive overreaction to Game Theory's video etc.), and holding a holier-than-thou attitude and claiming superiority over any other fighting system involving medieval weapons.
Catch_Me_If_You_Can: I respectfully disagree with you on that. In fact, he does too, as he took back a few things and said that he, himself, believed he was "mostly" right, not completely right.
I consider this basically the same as sport fencing, just with a historical veneer. I think the indignation of HEMA and historical enthusiasts comes partly from them lacking the media outreach of this sport. Hence, most people see this sport on TV and think it's based in actual historical swordfighting, which it is not, and then might dismiss actual HEMA ("...because I saw something different on TV"). It's the same issue as with people getting their ideas about historical combat purely from historical films and television (where most productions can't be bothered to portray plausible historical fighting). You're right that this sport historical fencing is a lot closer to buhurt fighting at period tournaments.
I think sometimes people misundestand both HEMA and Armored fighting. There are comments like "they are just brawling, they have no technique, they are only swinging their arms around, that's not at all like the manuals". Well, most of the manuals represent 1v1 combat, and I assure you, when you are fighting a buhurt in an arena with 9 others fighters, there's not much room, or opportunity for fancy guards and textbook strikes. There is however, a lot strategy involved and some technique involved, but people sometimes want to see fancy coreographed fights.
I wonder how close (or not) the buhurt mass battles (e.g. 150vs150) are to historical life&death battles. Not the fighting techniques, but more the overall movement, communication etc. Of course there are still many differences between battles in buhurt, some more coordinated some less. I would say most of them are at least more accurate than what we see in a lot of movies regarding the front line, because in a lot of movies there isn't really a front line, just chaos everywhere where nobody would really know who's who and who's where.
I have to be honest, I was sort of expecting to shudder a bit on this video. However, it was a really pleasant and balanced view. I especially like where you kick in about 10-15 minutes in.
As someone speaking from the full contact side of this, I have to agree with most of what you said. As always very reasonable and we'll thought out. As for the trigger point, I have to say while I understand your point and can agree with it, you have to recognize the main reasons behind it and address that as well. Those reasons being headlines/clicks and ticket sales. When explaining what I do to others, I personally explain it as "European kendo" to get the point across as simply as possible. Even though obviously it's not. But I am an individual that can take the time to explain if needed. Also I'm not interested in making money off that fact. Rather than attack the sport and it's participants, address the real cause and make appeals for education and understanding. Not name calling and macho posturing. I also agree that there needs to be standards and uniformity generally on the field. But also I ask people like you to pick up the gauntlet and start offering classes or training periods of non-buhurt style combat. And perhaps even work to field your own team or send members to a national team. Right now the people going out and starting clubs are usually "sports only" people. There will always be those clubs. But if there are more hema origin groups that can field fighters and offer a voice within the sport in support of reasonable rules like armor and weapon standards, then maybe we can make this sport many kinds of people can take part in. The sport is new and going through growing pains. Perhaps in the future we can set standards for instructors like requiring an essay on the history of the sport (just for example) and help educate out the misconceptions. But one step at a time.
I think that using metal swords is done to make it more intense. Audinces would start associating it with LARPing (it would still not be the same, I am talking about perceptions) if they were smacking eachothers armour with nylon swords, which would reduce both viewers and practitioners.
"Baleine" literally means "whale" in French, but it was also used sometimes to refer to specific uses for whale baleen, the fringe-like dental structure that some whales use to filter prey from the water they ingest. Baleen is whale teeth, not bone. For example, historical corsets with "baleines" had baleens as a structural reinforcement.
Amazing response. Hit the pro's and cons where needed. i for one will continue to watch things like battle of the nations because its guys in plate armor going at it! something i'd love to see in films and Series. What is your opinions on SCA in terms of realism and fantasy. good points and bad points and general understanding of it!
Understandably a lot of people have commented about the weird camera effects and hat in this video. The subject of this video to me is very much about perspective and how we see things. I suppose that I wanted to make this video seem a little different to my normal videos. Foreign. Strange. I wanted the watchers to view this separately from my other videos and not feel on familiar ground. Perhaps it didn't work, but that was the idea.
scholagladiatoria even if i agree with your opinions on M1 and hmb as they are point by systems, i would disagree about modern béhourd (silent d by the way) since it is a ground or give system. You say that a medival fighters would "stab in gaps" rightly perhaps as it's what the documents tell us but i can say from experience that you will not be able to touch the gaps let alone go through the mail and/or gambesson before being run through by your opponent. That is unless he is on the gound or injured which is want a ground or give system considers a win. So yes point by systems are inacurate representations of actual combat but ground or give systems are as practical a rendition of armoured combat as safely feasible and I'd encourage any HEMA practitioner to take part and test the feasibility of some of their techniques
..But pretty sure that the participants in these tournaments would have a decent level of fighting skill - before joining. And that the rules in combat would likely be based on demonstrating that skill to some extent, in a very limited ruleset or focused on specific techniques executed (relatively) safely against an opponent.
To go the other way around and say, well, maybe they learned techniques for blows and wrestling purely from the tournament, from following these rules and executing a point marking blow to an armored helmet, that some talented competition-fighters then would use unmodified in an actual fight later.. I'm not sure if that's even likely. It's just skipping over the fact that there'd be some minimal awareness of some kind of fighting system, and likely some training in it, involved before the competitions take place.
Not that there aren't sagas or historical sources that mention fighters decending into an insane brawl, fighting like animals and biting each other in the end, etc. But it's described as something barbaric and ridiculous, uncultured, even in.. year 800 in Norway. Just saying that people trained fighting systems of some kind, and then would design tournament rules based on what would require control, skill and strength in that system.
There's all kinds of techniques in chinese martial arts that take immense skill to perform, but that are not (and can't be) used in this way in a real fight, for example. But they've designed systems that seek to allow you to train safely. And then to apply the technique in a restricted sparring type duel, safely, while performing it in a way that - when you modify it - then has obvious combat application.
And if you "master" that in training - you're still an amateur. You haven't fought an actual opponent yet with the skill you've developed, explored how it works, after you actually have the potential - at this point as an amateur - to do it.
I'm saying that just because a fist-fight in a schoolyard authentically decends into who can hammer their fists down over someone until they cover their heads, before someone throws themselves at their legs so everyone fall over while screaming loudly, etc.
That's not an argument for saying that this is how real fighting naturally develops. It's like arguing that the most sublime and superior martial art is one where the opponents don't have any kind of trained skill with anything. It's very zen, I'll give you that, but it doesn't really make sense.
Foreign? Strange?
Someone has been watching too much David Lynch. :D
Love the theory. In practice, it’s giving me a headache. I’m ten minutes in, gotten the gist of what you’re saying, finished the advertisement, and I’m signing off.
Is Matt so heavy he bends space around him?
Tyrion Lannister make the little man fly
tyrion lannister Thank fuck I'm not the only one, I thought I was still drunk.
We've crossed Matt's event horizon.
that is how heavy a longsword is, unlike the super light superior katana
Massive, but yes, it is seriously weirding me out watching him warp the space around him.
Hey there mate, I have finally finished working and could sit down and watch this video. I think you did a very good job and I actually now agree with most (not all) the points you bring up.
Now I gotta go out film my next video (in a pizzeria while eating pizza, I'm not joking xD) but as soon as I get a chance (soon) I will tell you what points I agree with and what I don't.
Thanks pal! Have a good one!
Metatron/Metaman/MetalGear/Metaltron(?)/Raph ;)
ps: Your recent video about the butt and the bayonet is priceless xD xD xD
Looking forward to it mate, have a nice pizza - I wish I was there in Palermo to enjoy one with you!
I wish more people on the internet treated each other with the same respect and cordiality shown by the Metatron and Matt in these comments. Pointing out where you believe someone is incorrect or perhaps more accurately where you believe a colleague may not have considered certain contexts for the material covered in the discussion, doesn't have to devolve into bickering.
Cheers to both gentlemen, I'm enjoying the content of both creators in a positive environment.
Honestly, I always thought your "anger" was directed more to how the sport is presented to the public than to the fighters/athletes. I believe you even said that, although I might remember wrongly.
Oh, gosh. Just go marry each other already.
MrVvulf There seems to be a whole community of these historical/fighting RUclipsrs, and the respect they show each other is great.
...oh. I thought Matt would fight Metatron in full plate. Got excited there for a moment until I realilzed what the video is actually about. What a pity.
I would pay to watch that and sell popcorn!
Rumblefin same, isn't Matt double the size of Metatron though?
maybe not in size - but in greatness ;-)
Huh .... Matt actually trains. He would wreck Metatron.
They both train in HEMA. But yes, even Ralph knows that Matt would probably plow through him. Even Thomas from Medieval Review knows that Matt would win against him, and he has his own club.
I always called it "Heavy Metal Hugging" since that's what every melee bout seems to descend into.
In that regard I always wanted to see them have at least a side thing totally focused on grappling. As funny as seeing them pointlessly bash each other over the head can be.
Also in ones where the rules are fall over and you are out I'm always surprised by the lack of tripping or attempting to hook the legs especially in 2 on 1 situations.
It's mostly about the skill level. Twe lower the skill is between the combatants, the more you see hugging. If you check out 5v5 finals in BotN, for example, you wont see much of that.
TheMetalPenguin I think the Battle of Nations duels can be pretty interesting. But other than that it gets boring watching it rather fast
There are as many attempts to do that as there are opportunities. But like anything in battle, it;s easier said than done.
If they all trained in judo then it would take forever, because everyone woud know how to counter what everyone else is trying to do ;)
Hello. There is another type of Medieval fighting that we do at medieval festival, (in Romania) called tap fights. You get points for a clean blow to the head or body. The difference to full contact is that you fight until a set ammount of points so you don't go all out attacking. HEMA can play a big part in this type of fighting. You are not allowed to stab. It is usually done wearing a gambeson, helmut, gauntlets and sometimes maile. It is one on one.
I'd PAY to see Matt, Skall, Meta, Lindy, and Shad fight each other!!
I'll bring the popcorn!
Codename Jinn my money is on matt ftw
I put my money on Matt. It is a matter of experience.
Depends on the rules and the weapon they are using I'd say. Matt doesn't specialise in Longswords if I'm correct and Skall does Longswords, so if everyone was using their main weapons, I'd give it to Skall, assuming his leg is fine because a Longsword is going to win in reach.
@@dazeen9591 Well, assuming his arms aren't acting up either. That man hurts himself more than an emo.
Very nice video. I felt it was a reasonable explanation. Having watched a few reaction videos, it was nice to see the angle that this was specifically tournament fighting and not real combat - which makes a LOT of sense.
"If you like unicycling while playing the bagpipes, go and do it" You say that in jest, but there is someone in my town who dresses up in various costumes (always with a kilt though!) and unicycles around the downtown area while playing the bagpipes. He calls himself "the unipiper."
ARR0WMANC3R I must see this video or disbelief
Sounds like someone living their damn best life.
Well this is impressive, you've tackled a difficult and complex issue that really divides people and you've done it comprehensively and reasonably. This is one of the best videos on the topic and in HEMA generally that I've ever seen. I can't fault anything you say, it's all accurate and bears out my own thinking and personal experience. Last winter I got fed up with the keyboard wanking that I was seeing around the topic of M1/BOTN and I went and trained with some of the English BOTN guys, and everything you're saying sounds familiar to me. They didn't make any claims about what they were doing being lethal historical armoured combat, (that's actually people who don't do it just commenting on RUclips on their behalf) they didn't even really have much of a sense of the sources on Beaufort/tourneys, they just enjoyed getting into armour and smashing the fuck into each other with metal swords. After I crippled one of their guys in the first minute of them throwing me into their training, they were also pretty respectful and inquisitive about HEMA. These are tough, big, strong sons of bitches and they're a great crew of people, and I can't recommend highly enough that if you're a HEMA practitioner like myself, you give this a go at least once. I had to take 4 days out with flights to do it for a weekend, and I camped out in the snow in a field and it was all worth it. Exactly as you say, Matt, it gives you a perspective on armoured combat that you can't get in any way other than taking and receiving full strength strikes in armour. For all the technical differences in how they go about it (which are significant) they do capture, I think, a sense of the aims that 14th/15th century tournaments had; to test nerve and strength and to keep the warrior class active when not at war. I don't like to make or hear arguments from authority, but on this topic there is too much heat and very little light, I would encourage everyone to give this a go before criticising it; it might not be what we in HEMA consider historically accurate, but it has value and it's harder than it looks, a lot harder than sitting behind a computer armchair analysing what you see. So, thanks for this video Matt, you're well regarded in the HEMA community and I'm really glad that you've put this out there, hopefully as you suggest it might even advance our own practice. Cheers.
This ^ Right here.
Thanks, it's good to know that it makes sense and seems reasonable.
Well put! Whenever I see HEMA people bashing HMB/IMCF, I always have to wonder if they also discount jousting because it doesn't represent what was done on the medieval battlefield. (Definitely not aimed at Matt!) I've inquired about historical sources for rules as well (to little effect), but hopefully this idea gets more traction now.
Anyway, combat to the death wasn't the only martial activity that the knights took part in and I'm really glad to see a prominent HEMA person actually acknowledging that in the full contact sports context.
When you all claim what you do is a SPORT...yes, there is no issues between HEMA and what you do. The issue comes when you all claim things BEYOND it being a sport. The issue is, there are people in your group who claim otherwise.
+ColdNapalm42 -- Just to be clear, are you saying that the early attempts to explore the tournament aspect of the medieval knightly culture cannot possibly add anything to HEMA, even context-wise? Because that's what it sounds like you are saying.
It would be awesome if some HEMA enthusiasts got together and create a combat sport based on historical tournaments.
I totally agree in that
I would join that immediately... IF I had the money. Armour is sooo expensive!
but then people would just go on and shit on that for no good reason...
I hope they wouldn't shit on that.^^ And I don't understand your sentence (English = no Mothertongue)
Schwertschwinger He means that it would end up transforming into garbage.
Your nuanced approach on almost all topics is my absolute favourite thing about your channel and your approach to making videos. Thank you for this video Matt.
I've been an avid Martial Arts (HEMA included) enthusiast my whole life. I've trained and sparred armed and unarmed, eastern and western styles, and I've always wanted to be able to use all these things combined. Buhurt matches allow me to combine all these things, to some extent, while forcing me to stay in the best shape I've ever been. It may look weird for the people who don't understand, but most fighters have a background in some other MA, and once you get used to seeing the person fighting underneath the armor, the whole thing comes to life. Buhurt is a (Historical European) Martial Art in the same way boxing is: a non-lethal, highly contrived, yet still dangerous combat sport. I don't see what all the fuss is about. As a Hemaist and Steelfighter it hurts me to see Buhurt matches being shat on all the time for no good reason. Wanna know how realistic it is? Find a club and ask to attend practice. You'll be surprised by how friendly and supportive the steelfighting community can be.
This ^ right here. Nice to see you here, Henrique!
I came here to defend our honor, but I see you beat me to it Z. !
My god I would love to, at this point I've barely had enough to buy a sword and certainly don't have the 4,000+ $ to buy a harness that is both safe and authentic. If you've got the resources though all the power to you, I envy you.
I don't know about other chapters, but the NY Armored Combat League has full and partial harness and weapon loaners for the team. It might not be the most comfortable (or best smelling) gear you'll see, but if you want to join us money should not be what's stopping you :)
Henrique Nakamura I live in Australia hahaha. Although that does sound awesome, I've definitely been keeping an eye out for a while. I'm definitely not prepared to pack my stuff and join a team tomorrow but definitely something I'm looking at trying in the future.
Ah damn, I thought there was a full contact fight in this vid.
Hi Matt. I would have to say that your view on the full-contact game is much more well-informed than it was in your previous video about it that I saw and on which I commented. Good job in pointing out that HEMA is about the treatises and the full-contact game is a sport. I think more should be made of the fact that HEMA is a school- and learning- based art, while full-contact fighting is a ruleset for competition. To "compare" them is like comparing eating a steak and fixing a salad.
I am not sure what the difference would be if we used rules directly copied from some specific tournament instead of these, which are inspired by them. One thing about the current rules is that they do not limit the techniques used beyond the bounds of safety. There is no regulation, reward, or requirement to match the techniques that can be found in treatises. This will allow the actual fighting to evolve based on the skills and inclinations of the fighters and whatever training they may have had before entering the sport, and then evolve according to the trial and error of attempting to use techniques in the game.
This is much like the early days of MMA, where "pure" martial artists found their arts limiting, and things that seemed to be successful took on a new vogue, until someone figured out how to combat it. This is very exciting to me, and, I imagine, a martial arts or fight sport scholar; to see the development of a new martial art/fight sport (call it what you like) right before your eyes!
Personal matter of taste: Why do we use steel instead of plastic or wood? i) Steel 2) plastic does not his as hard as steel, and is not steel 3) wood shatters and splinters, and is not steel 4) Steel. We like steel. :)
Two nitpicks: what you are calling "ICF" may be the International Medieval Combat Federation, or IMCF. The USA group for that sport it the Armored Combat League, or ACL.
I am not sure why the weapons in the full contact game have a reputation for being heavy. Although I will admit it was hard to find a sword I liked in America our first year out, As long ago as 2012 there were very nicely weighted and balanced weapons I found in Europe, and now the IMCF and ACL have rules that enforce a weight range that is about the same as historical averages.
At least couple of years ago bouhurt fighters in Eastern Europe loved 1.5-2 kilo swords and even heavier top-balanced falchions )
The rules lately have developed in several groups limiting the weapon weights to safer levels that happen to coincide with certain historical averages. And even if you can find some monster weapons, that is more about the individual's taste than the organizers of the sport handing our heavy weapons.
Right now I am looking at the new international HMB guidelines to weapons and they give weight brackets as 1.3-1.7 for single-handed sword and 1.7-2.3 for longsword. "Historical averages" would be 0.8-1.2 for single-handed and 1.4-1.8 for longswords. That is about a half-kilo, a pound difference.
Source for historical averages, please?
I was at an event, getting drunk with the at the time USA coach for the US BOTN team (we'd done fighting before HEMA was a term, and included a lot of HEMA folk in our early crew) and he said, flat out, "We're not doing historical fighting. We're the new version of the Roman gladiators, fighting to distract the masses"
As someone who does HMB/IMCF for a few years, I really appreciate your video, Matt. There's still some information left out, but I'm glad you did research for this and kept yourself objective on the subject.
M1 is entertainment. People who are going to "call it out" because it isn't historically accurate just look dumb to me. Like Matt said, it isn't lethal. "Look ! They're not even thrusting! Lame!"... well... no kidding, they're not trying to actually kill each other. "Look! MMA is lame! No eye gouging! I could kick Conor McGregor's ass! Just like I did in that video game!" At a certain point, these armchair critics and larping wannabe warriors are getting pretty cringe. (Not referring to Matt here - he seems to understand what reality is vs entertainment / sport)
This ^ right here.
Smile Titans some people value authenticity and honestly. U probably dont. But whats to disagree about being historically correct and conserving true hostory (even in the form of sport). And if u listened to metatron video, he didnt have a prob with the sport itself, but more with the pretence it would be historically accurate. That would be the same as disinformation, or writing random (more entertaining) info on history books. An other example is watching inaccurate history movies. Yes they are for entertainment, but i do still get pissed if they “rape” known history. Thats just idiocracy at its finest. Deliver Just for the money, just for entertainment is quite mentally underdeveloped imo..
what authenticity? this are duels and grouped combats, like tournamants of Mid-ages, wake up, and yes you are one of these armchair critics too
I think, aside from Buhurt, another possible interpretation of what M1 & co are doing is actually Bloßfechten, just with period protection.
And it makes a lot of sense: armour is intended to protect from Bloßfechten-techniques, that's why Harnischfechten was developed.
And the scoring system also represents this, since you get points for hits on the head, body, etc...
Just like in Kendo, where you basically get points for hitting the armour, since the armour was specifically developed to protect the parts of the body which are eligible targets. Nobody criticizes a kendoka for not going for the gaps in the armour.
Coming from HEMA myself, I experienced that many of our lot, seeing armour, immediately think of Harnischfechten, which might be true in a HEMA context, but does not have to be so universally.
Whether the techniques used by the fighters are martially sound or not is another question, but I personally don't see any problems with using a Bloßfechten scoring system in combination with armour.
After all, in HEMA we also don't try to stab under the mask...
Thank you for a balanced and fair account of the phenomenon. And especially for your points about how the form itself can actually teach something. As all training and sparring systems.
Finally some sense. Thank you! I immediately asked Metatron whether he would discount jousting as well, because it doesn't represent what was done on the medieval battlefield, but apparently he responds to videos alone.
Great video and good break-down of what I think - as a practioner of the sport - HMB is all about. As for the points around 11:30 - 14:00 I get what you are saying, but I also disagree with it; HMB is mostly a spectator sport, and by having steel weapons and non-tournament armour the spectacle for the audience is better. I do understand why this might irritate the most hardcore HEMA-people and history enthustiastics, but you have to also admit that they're a tiny minority of the population. If you're trying to create a tournament that attracts big masses, you have to play around the majority. Some sports are dedicated to serve only the people who have fun doing it (for example, Finnish padded-weapons fighting where my own background is in), but HMB is definitely is not amongs those. Its about the spectacle for the audience and the rush for the fighters. Take care!
Not sure I agree, metatron pointed out the repeated and reckless spinning back swings in the video he referenced as being a big reason why it wasn't realistic, I think that regardless of tournament or not, a trained swordsman keeps his form. In a tournament a knight would reference his training, they wouldn't just turn it into a bar room brawl. It might degenerate to that at times but a knight would have everyone watching and would not want to be seen as a sloppy brawler. They would want to exemplify the huge investment that his employers and teachers had made in training him. If you could just put on armor and swing for the fences then what's the point keeping a knight in your service, just give the tough guys in your village swords when you need to go to battle. The m1 guys should get all the respect for putting their health on the line but the skill level is not there from what I have seen.
Dustin Thurmond can I say that it's mostly Russians who do that, the spin is something they like to do to put more force behind the blow, the goal with that is to give people concussions through their armour and well, when there is money on the line they sometimes try to win through TKO rather than points scoring.
Metatron really over-focuses on that "spinning thing." IT is what one guy did in one match, and he won that match. He does nto understand how and why it can be effective, and in that match the fighter overdid it. Metatron shoulud have given that detail a rest a long time ago.
New York Knights Combat after watching that video and a couple others. It literally looks like a spinning backfist with a sword in his hands. I def do NOT want to get into spins, twirls, and pirouettes again (i still feel the same about it) but i do feel like i see a lot of hand to hand combat techniques in these competitions and a lot less fencing techniques. It looks out of place to my perception, personally.
what's a long time? Doing two videos in a week is a long time? Get off it.
A lot of time in those videos focusing on the spinning, as if that one thing done by that one guy in that one fight was the entire sport in microcosm. As a critique of the individual fighter's choice of attack in that fight is fine, but he really piuts topo much significance on it. This guy doesn't even mention it.
It is a fundamental impossibility to have sparring or tournament fighting that accurately represents historical lethal combat because it would require actual fighting to the death.
Of course. But what you could have is historical tournament fighting that looks more like historical tournament fighting, with historical tournament fighting equipment and rules.
Indeed, and that would be good. It is just a pity that it is pretty much impossible to have something that looks like battle field fighting.
Well, depending on how you feel about criminals on Death Row we could recreate lethal historical battles and combat. It would be a lot cheaper than most of the current means of execution and would mean their deaths have at least some value/benefit to the world.
I don't expect many to agree with me in this regard honestly, but I think if someone volunteered for the program (or other experiments like experimental surgeries) we could use their life to benefit humanity.
What if I want to see armored tournament fighting? No one says what they would change from M1/BoN to have armored tournament fighting more realistic. Change to percussive weapons? If I can hit you with a sword, I can hit you with a mace.
honestly the only way we'll get to see that is incorporating MUCH higher tech armor. There have been discussions on the topic... the tech is here, but it's still a bit pricey. Not quite DARPA prices anymore, but still at Olympic Sports gear prices. Armor with built in accelerometers, cut proof undersuits with conductive outer surfaces and 3d0 impact fabric underlayers, computer controls, possibly in built TENS systems to simulate disabling effects.
A great video in clarifying and calming things down. This really helps so thank you for putting out your knowledge and thoughts out here.
It's so cool to see a video from someone being objective about a topic and explaining differences between each situations without being totally biased/triggered. Keep up the great work.
You guys miss the point completely. HMB is in no way intended to be a recreation of medieval lethal combat, it is a VERY GOOD recreation of combat a plaisance. The melee rules in particular are almost exactly matched to historical tournaments (except the part about disamament). We have plenty of sources describing beating each other intentionally on the armor with no thrusts and strikes to unarmored bits actually forbidden. Second important note: The tournaments which "steel fighters" (the general self-monnicker in USA for the various leagues) combete in are very close to tournaments actual medieval knights fought in, and they considered it a pretty good way to train for war. Fiore says go fight in tournaments because you build strength and techniques and won't get hurt. The manuals are a slanted view of medieval fighting because they specifically focus on what you need to know for "real" combat that you DIDN'T already learn from fighting tourney since you were a novice squire. If more HEMA people did buhurt then their often terrible redactions of the texts would be a lot better. Third, your point about baleen is way off target...records specify baleen, rebated steel, and sharp steel and there is no reason at all to believe only baleen is authentic. You are wrong that anyone says "This is how medieval knights fought in war." They do say, "This is how medieval knights fought." and that statement is not untrue even if it doesn't tell the whole story.
Also, you should totally fight steel...You are in England? Go find some White Company fighters and try duels, profight, and buhurt. Give each format a real, honest try, then come back and post another video with your thoughts and experiences.
I started doing HMB after also trying Fiore (was less tempting due to the lack of physical exercise that HMB provides in absolute abundance, as well as the intensity and variety provided by HMB - group fights, duels, etc.) and at no point did anyone claim it was HEMA. In fact, the instructor specifically mentioned that it's quite different from HEMA, and the equipment is not fully historical, because you can't thrust, and that changes the entire dynamic of how things work in HMB.
The only claim is that it's their interpretation of how you could bring the medieval foot tournament back into the modern age, in a relatively safe way, and if you ask them which other activity it's like, they'll answer MMA rather than HEMA.
I had done a bit of searching after seeing Metatron's video and came across this term bahord (bahurd, behord, however it's spelled), so clearly some practitioners are aware of the idea (I believe it was the Battle Heritage website). I hope this video does go some way to improving matters, but I do sincerely believe that for a long time, the general misunderstanding of the public and many practitioners will hold this activity back.
Matt further cements his position as the best HEMA youtube channel. Really educational take on this particular controversy.
That's actually a great point! I remember seeing Henry VIII's tournament armour prepared for Field of Cloth of Gold. The original armour intended to be used had plates even on the armpits. It encased the wearer pretty much entirely. It was incredible.
Excellent video. I love the careful and complete explanation. No imposing your own preference, but rather just clarifying the matter.
The wobbly video made this unpleasant to watch, so I Listened :) Another great upload Matt. Thanks.
You surprised me here, Matt. I know that you are well-spoken, educated in these matters and are trying to look at everything from more angles, however this time you've outdid yourself. This is an excellent analysis of this sport movement that is so balanced and visibly unbiased that I can hardly imagine anyone doing a better job. You made some pretty strong points here. Thank you for this video.
Bloody hell that hat makes you look like a reality bending elf xD
We just wanna fight that's what armored combat is about for alot of us. Dont care about the rules just want a place for combat. If a new armored combt gets made based on the manuscripts I'll also be doing that . I'm in the process of starting my own where you even have to hike to get to the tournament and can fight other fighters along the way . I Enjoy ur videos thanks for posting .
Great point regarding the differences between sport fighting vs combat. We see the same parallel today with military combatives vs MMA and other combative sports. Each has slightly different techniques and tactics.
Unlike other videos this is a damn good response that makes sense. Liked and Subbed I hope you continue this quality up.
Thank you for this full, well-documented, informative, and most importantly, unbiased video on the topic. Thank you.
Matto Eastono comes to the rescue and brutally dispenses medieval combat red pills all around. Thank you for articulating your thoughts and ides so eloquently and succinctly, Matt.
Baleen is made of keratin, which makes up hair and fingernails in humans, and is a component in the outer layer of skin. Keratin also makes up rhinoceros horn.
Apparently, due to its strength and flexibility, it was used by the Inuit of North America to make bows, which were further strengthened with sinew.
Point of order: hmb/imcf combat rules are found in king Rene's tournament manual from the 15th century. We compete in the now resurrected sport of medieval tournament fighting.
Wasn't expecting the hat! Great discussion video, good points and well spoken. Always enjoyable mate :)
Great video, I was very dissapointed in how dismissive Skallagrim was of the sport. I would say Battle of the Nations has brought the idea of the medieval tournament back to life, it has gone from a distant past to living, if modified, history.
I saw both videos too. And you bring better the point I commented in the last one. Thank you for making this video and bring light to a kinda controversial topic in the comunity.
Insightful and well spoken, great video to expand the discussion. The tournament rule concept is interesting!
I love Battle of the Nations, and I agree with everything said in this video.
21 vs 21 is the most fun for me, and I think it's the most "realistic" category (before anyone jumps at me - I don't mean to say it's actually realistic, but it's more realistic than the other categories) - they actually stick together in a formation and use some tactics (for example, guys with short weapons start in the front to get in close combat while those with polearms start behind and try to keep the distance).
5 vs 5 is ok, but usually it starts as 5 separate single fights, and whoever manages to get the first takedown gains a huge advantage.
1 vs 1 with swords is utterly retarded, usually it looks like they're just bashing each other without any concern for defense. 1 vs 1 with polearms is much better.
Hello there @Scholagladiatoria, I’m a HMB fighter from Australia, but excluding that i have worked in HEMA, both Fiore de Liberi and Tal Hoeffer and if i were to put HMB as a sport under the microscope, i would have to say it is more akin to modern day mixed martial arts. Before moving on to swordplay, i’ve had about eight years of boxing experience followed by a few years of MMA. At least in my time, and this may not be representative of the rest of the community, but i do feel like they all have their place in the fighting community. As with any martial art, HEMA can be found quite strict in the way it is taught, but HMB does feel quite lax in comparison. This can be a great starting point given that the armour has full coverage when worn appropriately and when worn in HMB sport fighting, you will quickly build up your conditioning to being able to wear it for a relatively substantial amount of time. I am not one for the reactionary culture of youtube, but i was hoping you might be able to discuss your thoughts on sport fighting in the modern sense and maybe draw a connection to HMB. It was a good video by the way, thanks for discussing your thoughts :)
Randomly back on this video again today. I will state this
1. M1 is not exactly HMB but a more UFC style fighting in a modern medieval setting
2. HMB/IMCF are based on rules of historical tournaments, not actual warfare with added rules to protect fighters better.
3. HEMA is not the only way to fight. It is based a lot on noble dueling, but it is not a guarantee way to fight, win, and being better. I have, myself, beaten many good HEMA trained people. One of the reasons is that they limit themselves to interpreting manuals rather than looking on what works better in the moments and armor you are in, your opponent is wearing, and long experience in armor. Good HMB fighters know how to control an opponent in armor, take down, where to hit, and how to take a hit. I also seen many HEMA fighters adopt styles from training in HMB to add to the inventory. It is not HEMA itself that I am bashing: it is this mentality of "I am right and you're wrong, but I haven't truly fought hard in armor. Hema is the one true God of medieval fighting"
4. We are not actually attempting to kill someone. It may seem like it, but we are not trying to kill a fighter.
5. Everything is easier said than done. People can comment on if they know this, do that, etc... it is of course easier in the mind to do than actually facing reality. It takes a lot of consistent training to be able to fight decently in armor and be comfortable in how it all moves and feels. It takes a lot of courage to put the armor on and walk in the arena. A lot of people who haven't faced such things won't understand until it all happens.
6. You won't see actual combat and shouldn't see in armor. It would require people trying to actually kill people which would be murder in this day of age and not acceptable.
I've been interested in hema for a couple of years (tomorrow's my first actual lesson😄) but I like watching stuff like M1. It's just an easy thing to watch without needing too much backstory.
How do I double thumbs up? That was some balanced, well thought out stuff right there. Your awesome grows ever stronger Mr Easton.
whats going on with the video at 1:15 looks like some kind of auto focus issue
Scott Kingsun Looks cool though. Looks like spacetime getting curved.
It's Matt's mad editing skills. How bout those intro cuts too!
I think Matt stepping around makes the camera shake and the stabilization algorithm warps the image somewhat.
Looks like warp stabilisation to me.
Amzing! love the clarification and points made in the video.
exactly my thought when I first time saw M1. it's not to resemble the medieval war, it's a medieval tournament recreation. and that's why I think it's brilliant. don't get me wrong I love HEMA, the style and the historical representation behind it, but to say you only have to touch your opponent to score and reset the stans is not a very competitive scene, in Boxing, MMA, you receive and deliver the hits without having to separate after every hit.
that's why I love you Matt.
This my be a bit random, but anyone who can actually play the bag pipes while riding a unicycle should post a video, because that's sounds incredibly difficult and impressive
Not sure if green screen... or full poster printout of fake wall.... either way, love your vids as always, discogrey
SadFace Music You mean the focus and distance changes? Pretty sure that's all they are. Why would anyone go to the trouble of a fake backdrop or even a greenscreen of their own spare room?!
JonMacFhearghuis Wooooooosh!
it's RUclips's 'stability' thing. Matt must have forgot a tickbox when it was uploaded, and the 'helpful' stability system is just screwing with a static scene
lol discogrey is catching on
John Tse I mean, "context" has been fine and all, but discogrey is legit gold.
camera seems to be freaking out for some reason?
What in the name of the sun happened to the perspective on your video? Wow.
I'm not even mad, that's amazing.
Thanks on the mention of Buhurt. It would really interest me how the historical sport actually work. Aside the small mentioning in history books and that there were instances were blood feuds ended by both teams using sharp weapons I have seen very little on how they conducted a Buhurt and determined a winner.
I fight for Team Japan in the IMCF. I agree with Matt Easton. The fighting is very much like medieval tournament fighting melee a pied (buhurt) in that blunted steel weapons are used and armor is worn and the goal is to knock opponents to the ground.
You know.. ive been watching you since 10k or so.. and you always keep it classy. im double subbed and I want to again thank you for helping me with my urban fantasy book.
Thanks :-)
Very objective, balanced opinions and analysis of the subject. I found the video quite interesting.
competative steel armoured combat including thrusts and wrestling has been done in holkand since at least 1999, but also in france, australia, us, norway, etc.
there is evidence for pulling blows in smithfield and the deeds of haques de lalaing fir instance, also jeu de la hache shows some interesting aspects of the mores and rules of footcombat.
Matt, is there a treatise on playing the bagpipes while riding a unicycle? Dante.
Even the universe yields to Matt Easton once he gets going
Could you do a whole video on typical historical tournament rules?
Do you think it would be possible to have gear or a ruleset that would closely mimic historical armored warfare combat?
You know what the obvious answer to this is, right?
To have your own proper Tournament-style challenge/event at this year's FightCamp...
That way you'd get to be involved, it'd be historically accurate, and you could open it up for all the M1-BOTN people to join in, too...
Y’all should try Armored Combat. You might like it.
Trust you to bring a logical, even handed perspective to the subject.
Great video.
Great video!
Unrelated topic question: How did the british cavalry train to not hit their own horse with their swords? Was hitting the horse a constant issue among cavalry? How did they protect the horse from enemy comatants? How did they prepare for having their horse struck down from underneath them?
Sounds like the difference between wrestling, the sport, and street fighting. If you are an accomplished wrestler you don't learn to incorporate a lot of kicks to the groin and eye gouging, but you do learn fundamentals of movement and weight placement etc. that are vital in hand to hand "combat".
Matt's words are so powerful he disrupts the fabric of the universe.
From what I know several reinactment groups in Russia are now trying to recreate tournaments. So for the "St. George Tournament" in Moscow they try to follow the rules of XV cenuty German (I suppose) tournaments as close as possible concidering somewhat limited sources and really limited budget (well, they don't have a whole duchy working for half a year to just run this event). And in Vyborg they have a "St. Olaf Tournament" that is more of late XIV - early XV century thing, but only a "foot" part of it.
If anyone, Matt included, is interested in getting involved in HMB in England and Wales search for Battle Heritage on Facebook.
We have trained with nylon weapons in the past but, because we tent to strike for the helmet a lot, they have been broken quite regularly.
Thank you for a very well balanced view of the steel fighting options. I someday need to try some HEMA options.
tbh, i may be wrong, but i never saw a depiction of battle from historical times where they use half swording in pitched battle, its bashing with the swords(which sometimes unrealistically cut trough plate), half swording seems to be more focused on armored duels for civilians found on treatises just having 2 opponents
You talked about what armor and weapons they used in historical tournament fighting, but what were the rules? What made someone the victor?
Matt Easton, everybody. Always giving the sensible opinion, always considering context. Long Live The Easton!
Pd.: Loved the hat.
Damn you Matt, now I'm not sure if I'm wasted or not.
Awesome video as always
I'm glad you made this video. I have a lot of respect for Metatron and his knowledge and I enjoy his videos, but I felt a lot of his criticisms of M1 were unnecessary and insensitive, as well as that he didn't really acknowledge the valid objections people made to his video, instead making what I felt were somewhat disingenuous refutations of the more ambiguous statements. While I don't necessarily agree that M1 (which, for what it's worth, I have no real interest in, personally) should be more historically-focused, I can understand why you (and many others) would find that more interesting and I think you handled the issue much more sensitively, and pretty much just better than anyone else I've heard talk about this. I feel like you just about never make a video that isn't knowledgeable and mature about whatever the topic is, even on the videos that are just an excuse for blatant innuendos.
Hi Matt. Love your stuff!! I'm going to throw my two cents into the ring, as I have done HEMA and I currently do ACL (Armored Combat Leagues; what we call it in the states). I can't speak for other groups, but my group fights by a "third point of contact" ruleset, where if you get your opponent to kneel or hit the the ground, he's out. The techniques we use, which include grappling, focus on forcing opponents to the ground, which is historically inspired. Additionally, the armor that we use *must* be historically based, and so hardened spring steel is very common amongst fighters. That said, it is NOT HEMA, and I am fully aware of that, but HEMA currently offers no equivalent for people interested in fighting with armor, at least in my area. So everyone who's on fire for fighting in armor, who might gravitate towards HEMA, instead choose ACL. That said, I think that there needs to be crossover between both HEMA and ACL, because both pursue similar, if not identical interests. I plan on eventually doing both, once funds are in order, so that I can take the techniques from HEMA and apply them to ACL. I think both communities could really grow from that crossover.
Wasn't tournaments from the 12th century to late 14th century done almost exclusively on horse back ( with possibly some personnel on foot)? the whole point was unhorsing the opponents. Charny's writing on the subject deal mostly about who get the horse, and stuff in various situations.
Bernard Emmerich
indeed, and the source matt brings up in the form of renes book of the tournament is also on horseback!
and based on specifically german styles rene saw in Schaffhausen in 1436, not the norm in france.
foot combat DID involve thrusts and probably sharp(ish) weapons ( deeds of jaques de lalaing and combat of the 30)
Matt, I watch Metatron's videos occasionally (not nearly like I watch yours though) and I totally agree that he fell down a hole when he made that video.
He is at that point in a RUclips's life where he has a following but is still relatively small. I was really surprised that his video on M1 has so few dislikes. As a person who doesn't have much interest in M1 but a lot in HEMA, I saw a few videos of it and thought it looked kinda cool, like a less serious take on medieval combat. Metatron on the other hand probably also only saw a few videos of it and immediately passes judgement and denounces the entire thing as BS. and his following blindly defends him ferverously by liking his and going to video responses which disagree with him and disliking en masse.
I hope you don't do anything like that. I doubt you will though since you're probably one of the few HEMA RUclipsrs who tries to stay objective about things.
I agree with you. I think he just say that one video and extrapolated everything from that one fighter who likes to do that "spinning move." He did not even try to research the style of armor or the construction of it.
Except I feel like he seems to be missing the entire point of M1. He even says that M1 is based on a points system, yet he questions why they don't use techniques like half-swording or use maces and warhammers and pollaxes. Modern day boxing also uses a points system, you know. That's like asking why boxers don't try to gouge each other's eyes out and try to snap each other's necks. Not everything has to adhere to principles of historical warfare.
That's the problem with the RUclips HEMA community. It seems like a lot of people lack the ability to think critically for themselves. It really feels like a circlejerk sometimes, with people just regurgitating the same thing over and over again (like the whole spinning thing, community's massive overreaction to Game Theory's video etc.), and holding a holier-than-thou attitude and claiming superiority over any other fighting system involving medieval weapons.
The difference is, M1 says it represents *Historical Medieval Combat* when it doesn't. Boxers don't say boxing represents a real street fight.
Take it up with he marketing department. Then enjoy the sport for what it is.
Catch_Me_If_You_Can: I respectfully disagree with you on that. In fact, he does too, as he took back a few things and said that he, himself, believed he was "mostly" right, not completely right.
Looks like your camera was also a hardcore fan of M1
In Game of Thrones there is a mention of a melee during the Hand's tourney. In which they use blunt weapons
It's a bit more than a mention actually haha
I consider this basically the same as sport fencing, just with a historical veneer. I think the indignation of HEMA and historical enthusiasts comes partly from them lacking the media outreach of this sport. Hence, most people see this sport on TV and think it's based in actual historical swordfighting, which it is not, and then might dismiss actual HEMA ("...because I saw something different on TV"). It's the same issue as with people getting their ideas about historical combat purely from historical films and television (where most productions can't be bothered to portray plausible historical fighting). You're right that this sport historical fencing is a lot closer to buhurt fighting at period tournaments.
I think sometimes people misundestand both HEMA and Armored fighting. There are comments like "they are just brawling, they have no technique, they are only swinging their arms around, that's not at all like the manuals".
Well, most of the manuals represent 1v1 combat, and I assure you, when you are fighting a buhurt in an arena with 9 others fighters, there's not much room, or opportunity for fancy guards and textbook strikes. There is however, a lot strategy involved and some technique involved, but people sometimes want to see fancy coreographed fights.
I wonder how close (or not) the buhurt mass battles (e.g. 150vs150) are to historical life&death battles. Not the fighting techniques, but more the overall movement, communication etc. Of course there are still many differences between battles in buhurt, some more coordinated some less. I would say most of them are at least more accurate than what we see in a lot of movies regarding the front line, because in a lot of movies there isn't really a front line, just chaos everywhere where nobody would really know who's who and who's where.
Im sorry but it that a rust spot on your fedder just below your left thumb? see 15:39
I don't suppose you have any links to the book you mentioned at 10:20?
I have to be honest, I was sort of expecting to shudder a bit on this video. However, it was a really pleasant and balanced view. I especially like where you kick in about 10-15 minutes in.
As someone speaking from the full contact side of this, I have to agree with most of what you said. As always very reasonable and we'll thought out. As for the trigger point, I have to say while I understand your point and can agree with it, you have to recognize the main reasons behind it and address that as well.
Those reasons being headlines/clicks and ticket sales. When explaining what I do to others, I personally explain it as "European kendo" to get the point across as simply as possible. Even though obviously it's not.
But I am an individual that can take the time to explain if needed. Also I'm not interested in making money off that fact. Rather than attack the sport and it's participants, address the real cause and make appeals for education and understanding. Not name calling and macho posturing.
I also agree that there needs to be standards and uniformity generally on the field. But also I ask people like you to pick up the gauntlet and start offering classes or training periods of non-buhurt style combat. And perhaps even work to field your own team or send members to a national team.
Right now the people going out and starting clubs are usually "sports only" people. There will always be those clubs. But if there are more hema origin groups that can field fighters and offer a voice within the sport in support of reasonable rules like armor and weapon standards, then maybe we can make this sport many kinds of people can take part in. The sport is new and going through growing pains. Perhaps in the future we can set standards for instructors like requiring an essay on the history of the sport (just for example) and help educate out the misconceptions. But one step at a time.
And here we have Matt, being the adult of the whole scene.
Kind of like a responsible dad to the youtube HEMA community.
I think that using metal swords is done to make it more intense. Audinces would start associating it with LARPing (it would still not be the same, I am talking about perceptions) if they were smacking eachothers armour with nylon swords, which would reduce both viewers and practitioners.
Matt where did you get that really cool hat?
"Baleine" literally means "whale" in French, but it was also used sometimes to refer to specific uses for whale baleen, the fringe-like dental structure that some whales use to filter prey from the water they ingest.
Baleen is whale teeth, not bone.
For example, historical corsets with "baleines" had baleens as a structural reinforcement.
Amazing response. Hit the pro's and cons where needed. i for one will continue to watch things like battle of the nations because its guys in plate armor going at it! something i'd love to see in films and Series.
What is your opinions on SCA in terms of realism and fantasy. good points and bad points and general understanding of it!
Can anyone name some main sources that speak of rules and types of combat types for period tournaments from 14th - 16th century?