The year is 2050, league is played by less than 100 people. T1 has finally reached Masters, "Macaiyla I did it!" he yells excitedly. The sound echoes through the empty trailer. Macaiyla left long ago...
The year is 2050, league is played by less than 100 people. QTpie has finally reached rank 1, "Lisha I did it!" he yells excitedly. The sound echoes through the empty mansion. Lisha had left long ago...
yep LOL is now dota. was saying it when i saw the patch notes through out update 8, kept saying, this looks more and more like dota, then BAM its fking dota
The problem is that it appears they accidentally deleted Marksmen champions from viability. Moving them to different roles should be the goal, not just pushing them off to the side.
yeah the thing is, what made me play league and not DOTA was that, now is just chaos, is just I like sdtale meta and that was what many pro players and people like about the game, I understand that you either hate it or love it, But I as a ex-master adc main, have decayed to plat 1 because they just decided to take a shit on me, its not balancing, its just "we care more about the money than staying loyal to what made the people stay playing our game" and its not just adc, all of my freinds have stopped playing the game beacuse it dosent make sense any more, its not league og legends, its another shit, it would have been better to just create another fucking MOBA or some shit, fuck Riot Games and their balance teams.
in higher divisions they weren´t played anyways, you always had about 3 to 5 adc´s reigning supreme above all others, resulting in the others not really being played^^ i think in terms of viability you could say the same thing right about now, there still are good marksmen you can play into tanks or mages botlane, but there also is bad ones that will pretty much lose any matchup or don´t build well against what`s meta
I think you need to get your brain checked. ADCs occupied bot lane for 7 seasons, and throughout this period of time there hasnt been non-adcs that were played in the bot lane in professional games without being considered as troll pick/champ by casters. Its time assassins or mages get to go to bot lane without being considered a troll pick, like how kai'sa/ezreal got to play jungle or lucian got to play mid/top. Oh and don't worry. I mained nidalee until season 7 came and absolutely destroyed it. Just learn a new champ and stop being so "traditionalist" like your name says. The game evolves, and one day we might even have tanks mid and assassins as support
Bryan Toh Thats like saying tanks and bruisers are op because they occupied top for 8 seasons,and mages and assassins are op because they occupied mid for 8 seasons or that supports are broken because they have been bot for 8 seasons...thats fucking retarded,now tanks and bruisers have 3 lanes,adcs have none Also we do have an assassin support and tanks indeed go mid like galio or maokai,bloody hell have you even bothered playing before talking?
Personally I've been loving the esports scene right now. For months people were complaining that LoL was getting stale, boring, and predictable. Saying that earlier seasons were better. Now we're basically back to season 2 or 3 and we never know what exactly to expect. And people won't stop bitching about it. The thing is, people just like to bitch, moan, and complain about everything. They didn't really miss the earlier seasons, they just want to complain. As far as pros having to play things they aren't comfortable with I say git gud. A basketball player may have one role they are best in, but you bet your ass they have to know how to play the other roles if it ever comes to that. Now, as an ADC main, I do feel like Riot did ADCs a little dirty (except for Ezreal fuck him they need to nerf him more imo), but I understand that they wanted to switch things up. Darius x Blitz botlane is a fucking blast. And it's been nice to try different things and experiment. The game ain't gonna die any time soon. And games have lasted longer than LoL has been alive. WoW is still doing pretty well almost 20 years later! LoL still has a shload of players and the esports scene is still going strong, and like you said, the pros gotta learn to be more flexible, it's time we got some new blood on the scene that's more adaptable and unpredictable. Bringing in new strategies and playstyles. LoL changes faster than any IRL sport, so it's obvious that the career of any esports personality is going to go by faster than IRL sports. A basketball player has 10-20 years in their career and it's looking like an esports career is around 5-10 years at max so far. In conclusion, this type of thing hasn't been done before (except WoW), esports is still in infancy and the scene still has some growing to do. I feel like all this doomsaying is doing nothing but annoying people at this point. There's nothing concrete and until it actually does die, we should just accept that LoL is going to be here the next year, and next year we should assume the same for the next. It's utterly pointless to continue on saying LoL is dead or dying until Riot announces they're shutting down the servers.
Thank you good sir. I love it when an ADC main comes and speaks good about the new meta. I'm a jungle main myself but ADC is probably my second best role (Even though I fucking despise playing any role other than jungle unless i'm duoing) so I have some experience with the bot lane and how the meta works down there. I did main it for a little while but that was back when I was bouncing to and from characters/roles and was still silver xd. The meta down there was stale and boring so I'm glad that I actually have some interest in a role that isn't jungle now. Edited: spelling mistakes
I actually like this, LoL was getting a bit stale with the exact same comps over and over and over and- However, the issue seems to be when someone's, well, JOB or career is to play an ADC... then, yeah, ouch.
Yeah. League is having a riot. In Dota, we call this Thursday. Chill you guys. When the dust settles and small tweaks are made, this is probably going to be a brave new world for a lot of you. Have fun with it. Your pro players will find ways. Never underestimate human creativity.
Every second Thursday we have a patch. It alternates between some gameplay and mechanics balance tweaks (e.g. item cost changes, buyback cost changes, kill and building bounty changes) in one patch and hero changes in the next. It's not crazy for us to see sudden meta shifts when patches hit, carry heroes being used as supports, hard carries ("hard" being a classification of the ones that take the most farm to come online but scales with items the hardest) being almost un-viable picks, or players taking up new roles in the team. Heck, players switching roles an farm priority and lane from game to game is a norm. Frankly, in my opinion, its fun to watch pros get creative.
Riot needs two metas a competitive (and flex queue) meta and a solo queue meta, this way the pro play scenario can be less volatile and team focussed and solo queue can be somewhere where one or two players win lane and guide their team to victory. Some key differences can be bounties being global in one and individual on another queue. Another example is complex champions like ryze and azir who riot struggle to balance for both pros and casuals, can have different stats in each queue.
The guy that talks in these videos is spot on. Great work man. I could listen to ANY story you have to tell, even if I could give zero fucks otherwise. Great narrative. :D
until a few weeks ago, i not put much time into league in over a year, because they were doing too much to upend the knowledge i had of the game - now, it does seem like, at the moment, it has stabilized a bit, so i have started playing some again, but that year+ gap should say something, as someone who has played since season 3, but almost entirely missed season 8
I actually like these marksman changes cause ADC’s could burst squishies before they could even cast an ability which is not what they’re meant for and we’re way too strong for being simple ranged right click champs
Although I think the changes makes it interesting with all the different picks possible, as a marksman man I miss the fun I used to get from the early game skirmishes at bot, and then the fun maintained as I had to make more actions per minute later in order to stutter step with a higher attack speed late game
I don't think marksmen should be as unpopular as they've been lately, but I do think they shouldn't have the undisputed dominance in what is picked. They should just be as good as every other option if played correctly.
ThatShinyPiplup the problem was that marksmen mains went from having a defined place next to a support to carry them through early game, to having no place on the rift. It was as game changing as we have gotten in a long time. It wasn't just the "op" champs that got nerfs. Kalista for example needed a buff compared to how other champions of similar skill level were performing. Every adc got nerfed. Weather they needed it or not, every ad lost base stats in an already early game meta. If this happened during ardent meta this would have been fine.
back when theres the variety of colorful smite in 2015, i dont considered playing adc in botlane but as an APC all ap carry to burst adc without kiting so much. the red smite + lichbane is awesome back from the day hehe
I love this meta! It feels like old league again and I've missed that league so much! I genuinely get to play Volibear and Teemo as a duo bot and I'm not accused of trolling! Long live the crazy meta!
What's the big deal you ask? It's the constant change in lieu of a lack of ability to balance to keep us playing. It's fine for pros that can knock out 50 new games of a meta champ but those of us that play here and there get our main crushed in a single patch it gets kinda tiring and annoying. If they could balance it would be fine.
nfc14g its a lot harder to balance a game like league rather than lets say dota. Dota has simple ass champs, even niggas like invoker and chen are realistically hella simple. Where as in league you have the most non sensical champs that are nye impossible to balance without fucking the game up entirely.
nfc14g Me personally I wanted the change to happen. League games just became stale, the same shit all the time all the time. At least in dota you can have some people make batshit crazy awesome picks that work out. Hell in dota the postions are a suggestion. If you wanna go 2 top 3 mid, if you got a good enough strat you might just win
Falci Main yeah DotA is a much more balanced game. For example last world champs DotA players used around 90% of champions. League used 30-40%. Stale is not the issue, they just don't know how to balance so there's such a small amount of effective champions
Falci Main yeah some of the champ design is quite ambitious and they do pull it off well a lot of the time which is great, especiall when they don't have to change anything. It's when they do need to balance it almost always goes awry. The community all seem to go x champ is busted because of x. X would fix that right up. Then Rito goes and does y. Almost every time lol.
At the end of the day whether a player liked it or not, it just depends on their own character. If you like routine you hate the meta, if you like to be dynamic you’d love the meta change. Myself hated that because I’ve spent so much time to learn the hidden rules of being an ADC, learn how to kite better with marksman etc, but i am now quite useless into the game.
I couldn't agree more about this This new IE is very strong,even stronger than the old one,gotta admit it , but the point is u have to build other critation at first before u can actually make the IE useful with its passive. A 1000km way build doesnt make players feel comfortable anyway
I personally love this. Early on, people didn’t know what was best in the game, but the meta of “tank/bruiser top, ganking jungler, mage/assassin mid, ranged ADC and support bot” emerged pretty quickly, because it all worked the best with the game. But then the pros started to experiment. They swapped bottom and top to gain an advantage, and back then, Riot pushed back. They added extra armor to the top and mid turrets so that playing a solo bot lane meant you lost your turret. They added specific jungle items to prevent lane roles from getting enough experience from jungle monsters to get a real advantage. They did things for the sake of keeping the meta consistent, and it felt really bad. So I’m glad they’re changing the approach, and allowing for experimentation. Whether you like the specific things they’ve done or not, I hope you can agree that the enjoyment of the game is more important than the consistency of the pro scene
This meta might not be the best but I really like their intention. It open up the team comp by making marksman not compulsory. It's has been awhile I am excited about competitive league. Can't wait to see this year's world as this meta pans out.
Let's face it league needs this in dota there are HUGE meta swings usually twice a year, and to top it all off you can play most heroes in a multitude of different roles, this change might even get my back into league (quit during S4)
I think Riot has to be cautious about frequent changes. The thing that mainly had me move away from league was that I had a period where i simply didnt have the time to play and keep up with changes and when i came back the whole Game had changed. I was basically playing like an entire skill tier below what i was before. That got me so annoyed that I switched to cs and never looked back. While changes like that are good at mixing up gameplay i think riot really has to give a lot of thought about Timing and frequency of patches in order to give pros time to adapt and be a peak Performance for competiton. After all seeing some pro do insane stuff is was keeps you interested and striving for more
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the current meta. Not to suggest that more variety is bad -- _I'm all for shaking things up a bit_ -- but I don't find this clown fiesta fun to play. I prefer when games like this have a good semblance of structure to them, e.g. when characters have clearly defined roles, strengths and weaknesses. There's not much point in running the traditional Marksman-ADC when we can just _meme it up_ with Yasuo/Xerath bot or whatever and get the same level of success. This _"Anything goes"_ meta is what I'd expect from something like URF or ARAM, but not the *core game.* It makes things _too_ unpredictable, and more than anything just tells me that Riot isn't confident with what they want League to be. And _no,_ I don't think the game was getting "too stale". There's more than enough content in the game as is to keep it alive and healthy. Hell, just switching roles from ADC (my main) to Top is enough to keep me coming back. And it's not like there's isn't a constant flow of new content: whether it be new skins, game modes on rotation or entirely new champions. The game was _already_ in a healthy, stable state -- All Riot had to do was maintain this state with constant small fixes to make sure nothing was _too_ overpowered/underpowered. You do that, and you can keep the game alive for as long as you want. _(EDIT): I'm also not convinced that this was the right way to go about things if their intent was to attract new players. The larger, more "casual" (for lack of a better term) market of players IS, always HAS BEEN and always WILL BE very "one and done". Players find the "new, hot game", pick it up for a month or so, and then drop it once the next game comes around. Nothing Riot does will convince them to stick with League because that's just not how they operate. By contrast, competitive gamers, i.e. the ones that keep League alive, will naturally find their way to the game and stick with it if they like it -- but they'll only like it if it's made with competitive play in mind. And to reiterate what I mentioned above, why should they care about choosing a specific role and getting better at it, if any random champion can waltz in and get the same results?_
Nah, off-meta picks like Lucian/Vayne Top or are fun every now and then for the cheese factor (the same way Yasuo Bot is fun every now and them), but I'd definitely prefer that they stay firmly in the Bot lane while Darius/Camille/etc. stay dominant in the Top lane. And actually, if I can give Riot props for one thing it's that Top lane has *finally* been getting a share of the love. It just irks me that picking Irelia Bot is _not_ considered trolling while picking Tristana _is._
But the real question here is SHOULD the game's roles be clearly defined. The reason you could win against a typical bot lane with a "fiesta" comp is because the dynamics of the two "meme" champions counter the enemy champions. It's because for so long most people are used to every bot lane being ADC+SUPP VS ADC+SUPP that they fail to realize that ADD+SUPP isn't a perfect combo, and has counters like any other type of pick. edit: another reason the "meme" comp could win is also because people are so used to "normal" ADC+SUPP matchups that they simply don't know how to fight something different, which is a bad thing imo because something shouldn't be so defined that if something different is picked you have no idea how to deal with it.
StrunDoNhor Totally agree with what you said. As an adc main i hate how only 2 or 3 of them are viable now, there are 10 or so adcs that i cant play anymore simply because they can't deal with the people coming bot lane early game, they weren't made to. The item change doesn't help also i feel it was better for bruisers and mele crit champs than adcs. As you said i don't mind them changing up the game, let those bruisers come bot but at least make adcs viable, i see 1 adc every 10 or so games nowdays.
thing is this is the old league we are experiencing. we asked for the old league days and not to be confined to the meta, Riot delivered. Legit in comparison to before mid season there were only a few combinations bot, but now, you can mix and match your own and discover your own meta and test it against others. I went from an unranked lux player to top 61st in oce from experimenting with lux bot as an adc. The meta is exiting because you never know which champs your going to be up against, mid/top is a little stale but even then interesting picks like the taric yi can be made and karthus nunu. Overall, this meta sucks for people who cant adapt and think of combinations/strategies that work, but for those that are innovative and can discover new and interesting combinations to beat out opponents its like a dream come true. Sure it may not be overall healthy atm, however the meta is yet to settle and some slight adjustments to adcs will bring them back, remember it only takes a few small number tweaks, ratios and even adc item buffs for them to become op.
What's so difficult about this? Starcraft pro players change their playstyles and races played all the time. Smash Players play a huge variety of characters and know all their moves. Dota pro players consistently pick over 95% of the hero pool in the game, and individual players make huge shifts in playstyle, from support, to mid, to carry. Even in matches from one game to the next in a concurrent series, those players change their priority in farm frequently. What is it about League of Legends that makes doing the same harder or not as doable?
It's a type of mentality that's been enforced by Riot. People that haven't experienced the breadth of variety in other games think League of Legends is made of solid gold when it's actually just polished shit (rhetorically speaking).
The thing with Starcraft and Smash is that the game is meant to be played as a solo player. As a solo, you’re more accustomed to changing up the play style to best suit how you can win. In games such as Dota and League, you have 5 players. Now you have a team of players that have their unique specialities. Give it or take, individual games such as Smash or Starcraft REQUIRE you to know how to play different races/characters, and style. Everyone here can be great as one race/character but will also be able to play others and have a counter strat or cheese they know in the other. In a team environment, you are expected to be at the TOP of your role. That’s why they were chosen. Now you have a shift that’s not part of your yearly routine. Whereas in Dota, that’s part of the meta since forever, the change and need to adapt, League can injure a players career who has played 6 years to best master let’s say mage mid. Now you’re in unfamiliar territory playing support mid as the best player in the world. Or jungle as one of the most competent top laners. Or worst case scenario, you just lost your job because a team game requires the better adaption of 5 players. With individuals, they take time to learn things because that’s part of their meta. With 5, you’re splitting the things each needs to master. You ask why it’s difficult? Imagine NFL where you make Tom Brady go from QB to Linebacker or some catcher. He’ll go from the best quarterback of the century to riding the bench. He doesn’t have the greatest build, his defense isn’t insanely good, but he does have the game sense to know how to make use of his role.
@KujouJ1 The only reason why League pros have difficulty in adapting is because the game has been designed so rigidly for so long. If Dota and other games can do it, League should be striving for the same kind of diversity and flexibility not just in their meta, but in their pro-players. This is why I find the comparison to sports odd--most esports games are patched consistently and the meta constantly fluxes with it. You can't expect the same kind of stability that a sport that hasn't been changed over many, many, many years will have.
Tbh everyone thats happy about the changes are ppl that didn't play markman only. its the ppl that played other lanes and dies to markmans. Its feel horrible to have everyone you played nerf to the point that your not strong enough to be pick in games because champs from other role can bully and kill you at every stage of of the game. Though what worse is that you cant even be picked anywhere else because markman can only be played with supp cuz they are weak in lane.
This. ADC main here, and this was the last straw for me. We get ONE good season as marksmen, and then they gut ALL the crit adcs. I'm done with League, and honestly I don't miss it.
Yeah screw people who are self aware enough to realize that only being good at one thing is bad in a team game where you aren't always guaranteed to get your main role or champion. I'm a support main who mostly plays Soraka, but that doesn't mean I can't play other roles. It's my responsibility to be good enough at a sufficient number of roles, plus a few picks for each role, so that if things don't go to plan i'm not a liability, because doing right by my team is more important than my own personal ego. If Riot changes something or you get autofilled and you suddenly can't play the game, that's 1000% on you, and you were never really good at this game.
I love it personally, more variety, plus it reminds me of dota's meta where finally almost everything is viable, if you put it in the right place, when you pick swain bottom on my smurf and get called troll but stomp, is now the meta and I love it.
whether you're happy or not, you only have 2 option : adapt or quit. i rarely play league. but after this guy explains what does patch 8.10 onward does, i have a flashback about dota 7.00
I kinda like the meta because of the unpredictability, it forces you to expand your hero/champion pool (bot plays mage, jungle plays support, etc) and do the unthinkable (4 protect mid on-hit/rageblade adc)
expanding your champion pool, forcing you to pause learning macro play such as map awareness, controlling minion waves and taking out objectives, and just makes you learn other champions kits and combos. it forces you to learn champions instead of the game which is a big reason why people are hard stuck because they never learn the game only champions. I don't like this meta
For me, as an ADC Main (MF One Trick Pony), it's a bad meta tbh, I know that consistency is needed here but, it depends on other players if they like to play other champions and learn
da real rulezbreaker tell that to all the adc that dont have a dash or any build in dmg that is only viable because their main dmg sources was basic remove from the game
so what? The entire concept that team compositions are frozen in place and can not change because you need 1adc 1supp etc ect is boring. Now you dont know what tactic or composition the opposing team could have thought up. Before you already knew, because there was only 1 viable way to compose a team.
da real rulezbreaker it matters if your love playing the role that was gutted because well think of it from where we come from having every thing you thought was fun about the game removed and not being able to play in any role cause you cant even survive
hm, i see where youre coming from but the meta in general and especially the competitive scene is gonna get a lot more exciting overall. i havent played lol in years tbh and i dont know how much the adcs are fucked, are they not viable at all anymore? Like of the many team compositions that could(will?) become viable now there should be some where adcs are in right?
da real rulezbreaker pretty much all the adc are fucked to the point of they are not even worth playing that why the adc are not played in pro scene so it may look cool from the outside but in game you feel horrible
Gregory Samuel Teo Yea so that makes those AD Carries unviable as hell. If you try to even play a crit ADC have fun because you need 3 items to even kill squishies.
"meta" is the state of the game that arises from the playerbase's response to the changes made by the devs. Just because you don't like the change made by the devs, doesn't make the meta "not a new meta".
Everything would be pretty ok, but the nerfs on adc's were slightly too harsh. Now you literally need 3+ items to deal any sort of damage if you're playing something else (not lucian, ezreal..), where as any sort of other champion that is played in botlane right now kills you off at level 3, with no items in 1.5 rotations. I was an ADC main and playing one right now seems to be just asking to drop your LP to the bottom of the pit. I am fine with facing a mage or what ever, but atleast give me a chance to fight back instead of some quality 'if you die once buddy, you're fucked, even god damn supps will ruin you' gameplay.. As I recall, these changes were ment for the idea that anyone could carry if you're good enough, though if you're playing traditional adcs, that aint happening. Simple thing, look at Imaqtpie, former top 20-ish NA adc main, currently fighting for his life against the D1 police.
More champions being viable in different positions is a great thing, but i also need to be able to lock in Jinx, twitch, vayne, or kogmaw without getting reported for greifing, and right now, i cant do that.
I've actually been having alot more fun with this current meta and enjoyed watching pro play so much more were it doesn't seem like you have to wait 30min for something to happen.
I don't play League so I don't know what a lot of this means even after he explained it but I play a lot of Overwatch and the meta in that game is VERY stale and VERY unfun it's part of the reason why so many players left and I would love for OW to become more like current LoL as I understand it because it sounds like it's much more unpredictable and exciting and has opened the door for more fun and wild strats but like I said I don't know anything about LoL so I might be off the mark
I have to laugh at the ADC mains complaining. Now you know how we supports felt all these years when the likes of Annie, Morgana, Zyra, Kennen, Shen, and Karma invaded our role and made Sona, Soraka, and Taric obsolete to the point that they needed to be reworked.
Manoj I've played 5 games of dota, and i've heard 15 screaming russians, and was flamed in 2 games for not being as good as the rest of the team (yeah being a player with 5 games put up against a player with 3k) If over half of the european server population is Russian, then I don't think it's a welcoming community (Cyka blyat report)
I might be a little biased as a tank support main, but I hate this meta. Its just not fun fighting against mages and assasins. Not to mention the only viable adc's are also ADC's I hate playing with or against.
My problem with the meta isn't the new strategies being used. My issue is the apparent death of the viability of an entire category of champions: marksmen.
Its like that dota 2 meme where a famous player by the name of n0tail says "anything can work". Riot and the players have put that shit to the test it seems
Adc main, I can’t play any adc without being considered trolling from my team. Also this might sound stupid but if I’m playing a hyper carry adc, I’m sacrificing my early game for a late game. But the problem is I pick someone like Vayne into a let’s say, Brand. He outdamages me early mid , and late. Unless I have 6 items I’m useless. Bring back old IE and the game would be fine.
It's not an accident this happens immediately after franchising. As long as it stays to roster swaps teams are not going to feel a lot of this pain financially. That burden is only on the players who helped elevate it to it's current level of popularity. It's something riot could not have done without first making sure team owners become dependent on riot rather then their roster.
The caster on Riot got "speculation" (I don't know the right term) that the reason SKT keep on losing is because they can't easily adopt to those metas. I'm not a great player but I know 2 AP champions are really scary especially if you can't kill them immediately on a team fight like what happened on game 5 of their series with G2.
The recent changes helped to prevent big snowballs, so getting a shut down is like get a tower, im falling in love with League again, cause there are so much things to do and try, you DON'T HAVE TO search as always the best BUILDS AND RUNES FROM PROS, YOU CAN IMPROVISE, LIKE BEFORE
Lmao some people in the comments say they played this one role for more than 3 years in a row and now its gone. Like, srsly - "100+ different champs? Naaaaaaah, just gonna play MF 10000o0o0o times."
SO.. what I am hearing is the pros are not really pros because they only know how to play 1 role and are like 'derp nao I lernn two roles how do?" AT least that is what it sounds like to me. For me you should be able to throw any champion in any role and the a 'pro' should be able to lay that as excellent as they would a traditional champion and role combo.
like everything had been revolving around adcs can sups protect them can mid laners burst them can jgers help them snowball can top laners absorb their damage but now you have a choice to play the game however you want
Adcs are literally trash - according imqtp, doubleliftt, and phylol. Not for anything, but I think their opinions on this have a bit more weight then yours.
Agreed. Its so funny how lots of lol people dont understand on why we MOBA gamers should learn to adapt because its 2018 lots of new game categories that gathers more audience rather than the old caegories like MOBA who has lots of competitive market like dota vs lol.
Faker and bjerksen got hit the most in this because they’re solid mid players with great mechanics. Although they have great mechanics they can’t move instantly to support. Some people are build just for one role.
I was very mad at them, cause i was unable to play my main kassadin against this heavy early game stompers. But now they made kassadin great again. Quadras and Pentas!
Ive been playing league for 4 years and i love these changes. This is the best thing thats happened to league, period. The diversity and fun to be had is amazing
The difference between this and old changes, was that jungle and support were broken early, they fixed jungle so the level 3 gank wasn’t great, but supports were too good, lulu and Janna did too much poke and let their adcs free farm, although they don’t go all in, they still pushed opponents into tower and went even, but since you have ardent, your adc is stronger than the other. And playmaking supports, especially with ignite, were too strong early game. But riot nerfed the wrong role, adcs. And it messed up the game
It’s not a freedom in draft or champion diversity when marksmen are just being pushed out of the game, especially crit ones. Champion diversity should be champs in every role, like in earlier seasons of league, or like huni picking Lucian top, but this is not it, this is a change in the bot lane since adcs can no longer get the gold they need since new adc items are ridiculous in price and delay adc spike despite us being in a “ff at 15 meta”.
IMO every lane should be able to snow ball and carry in their own ways, top either gets very tanks or split pushes, jungle tries to out path his opponent so he can dominate more resources and get more lanes ahead, and mid can get ahead and roam to open up the map for his team. Adcs should focus on getting gold and getting his core items to carry, those items used to be balanced since they were a bit cheaper than traditional items and were just as effective because zeal items were cheap, and can only be utilized well by adcs, or weaker early game champs, like yi. And support had no place, you just try to get the adc fed, which created an illusion that adcs were much stronger, but the real reason was because supports were very strong and too easily fed kills and cs, which allowed the adc to hit earlier item spikes. So why not a nerf in support? Idk, but adcs are in a very bad position rn, and strats like gold funneling just aren’t good.
"hes gonna play taric in a professional game" Id like to remind everyone of Albus NoX using their mains and absolutely destroying the team they faced. Poppy/Anivia. Yes they went on to lose over stupidity, but it just goes to show its about the players and in no way shape or form the meta. Take any team and give them off roles with top meta picks and give the other team normal rolls with #1 mains and see who comes out on top. Just something that always got under my skin when I hear castors talk about it.
No, you were never forced to have a marksman, but without one, you would lose after 30 minutes when their marksmen can right click on you and crit for 1k dmg, 2 shotting you. And, with no marksmen, any tanks they have are now unkillable. The meta is not determined by the players, it's determined by whatever is op at the time, which is determined by riot's balance patches.
Tbh its not that bot lane is more open its more of they nerf a role to a point where they cant be played. Its like saying remove all hp items and defs item and call it a new meta where you dont have to play a tank in top lane
What pisses me off is we get a meta where I can play Lucian in the bot lane and not be trolling my team. And then all this he'll breaks loose. I love LOL but this is just another ding among many that starting to add up to me looking for another game and place.to take my money.
To Be Fair... Pro Players just LOVE to play these new crazy comps and thats actually what keeps the game feel fresh and enjoyable, the silly things... the small but silly things... Just look at the smile on their faces when they make their picks... you will understand why...
Watching the pro league now is better than ever but playing the actual game is like biting your balls off, its just a painful experience. So much so that I am thinking of just giving up and so are a lot of the people I know which is a shame because the game can be fun.
Yep, imagine if the NFL suddenly banned the wide receiver mid-season. That's basically what Riot did. A lot of old time adc mains, like myself, are just done with the game. Yeah, mid laners and top laners are 'having fun' taking their champs bot, but adc mains...we're either raging or quitting. Personally, I'm out.
Moving focus from objectives to kills seems not great to me. Though i haven't played in over 2 years, i don't want it to just be a slug fest, there are other games for that
Teams start coming up with innovative, interesting and really intelligent strategies and the people who think that a game which has a static role boring role for each member is shitting themselves
This definetly sucks for people who get their income by maining ADC, but i'm a support main (around gold level) and this has yet to affect even one of my games for the worse. But for what it's worth, it's always a good idea to have a large pool of champions you can play, and to be adaptable. It's sort of like those people who 'can't support', or feed if they're assigned anything but their main role. You're not really that good at League if you can only do one thing really well. I'm sort of a Soraka support onetrick, but I don't feed my ass off in any other role. I'm not a great jungler because I don't enjoy many jg champs or the role itself, but I can at least not feed my ass off if I get forced to play that way. I think that's the minimum you should expect from any player in this game. You don't have to own and master every champion, but if you don't get your main pick or Riot changes some stuff and you suddenly can't play the game anymore, that's 100% on you. I do feel bad for the pros though, that's a very different situation than non-pro players just complaining because the meta changed and they have to stretch out of their comfort zone a little bit. Also as a support main i've seen some shit, so supporting a Nasus botlane isn't even a new situation for me, I can take that kind of bullshittery in stride, so even if the new meta does affect one of my games, it's not really that bad. And then there's the Cho/Kog lane I just faced last game. And no, the Kog wasn't the ADC, the cho was...at least I think. That lane made next to no sense, but then again, as confused as I was as to what they were doing, the people playing that lane had zero idea what they were doing either, and it sucked for them, because we were playing Vayne/Soraka, and both of us were good with our champs, had good synergy, and were against two confused idiots who didn't know what they were doing. If anything, this new meta is a good thing if you aren't a pro player, because half the time it means that if you stick with what's comfortable, you'll be against people who think up is suddenly down and black is suddenly white and adc chogath and support kogmaw (both with smite, pretty sure they were just trolling, definetly were duo) is a good call. I also just want to point out that back when League started, people just did whatever botlane and it mostly worked out. The meta is a good thing, but it's not great to be 100% reliant on it. Sometimes a weird pick works, and sometimes it doesn't. Personally, I prefer to stick with what my team will know and understand. Innovation is great, but sometimes when you do quirky stuff it can mess up your team because they don't know what to expect, and even if it's really well thought out and works really well, you can kinda hamstring your teammates if they don't know the strategy you're using. So it's generally a good idea to stick to the meta because it increases your chance of winning, not because the meta is a cut and dried perfect way to play the game.
I'm absolutely fine with Riot trying to keep League fresh - but they've killed a role to do it. Most of my time feels like its been wasted trying to get better at ADC, only for it to binned out the window just as I felt comfortable....
The reason i left lol after reaching D3 in s4 (or 5 cant remember now) was partialy that the game had become too "meta or nothing". Riot tried to change that by reworking champions all the time but that wasnt the issue. Especially in high elo you had to play the meta champions otherwise your chances of winning were very little. Combined with super fixed lane roles, it made the game boring. And i dont get the "unpredictable" argument, worlds this far pretty much proves that the game is in a balanced state but now finally you can pick something a little unconventional without being destroyed. After seeing this, maybe i will return and check out the game once more.
The problem is how strong they made the support role. Too much gold income/dmg/good items. This makes the winning adc into a monster. Change support back to what it used to be pls.
This is just my opinion, if this would continue eventualy this will be the new meta and adc will die, making games 30 mins below. This will be a thing probably until riot plays the game they made. They need to experience this kind of meta change and see if this need fixing ( i hope so) . For now i expect this meta will just last till oct to nov. (Plis dont.)
I’m an ad main and it’s not the fact that other things are viable bot lane it’s the fact that in order to do that riot made it nigh impossible to play ads in the bot lane this is not increased diversity it’s commuting genocide against an entire category of champions
No offense to lol players. But in dota or dota2. Pros can adapt depending on their strat. And there are alot more meta changes in dota or dota2 than in lol.
auear I mean can you blame them? They spent their life practicing a particular role in order to be the best on that role and to have that stripped away or change will be devastating for them
The year is 2050, league is played by less than 100 people. T1 has finally reached Masters, "Macaiyla I did it!" he yells excitedly. The sound echoes through the empty trailer. Macaiyla left long ago...
Eloheaven21 The year is 2050. T1 is dead on twitch and on the Internet. He has 1 viewer watching him.
This re-ignited my depression
The year is 2050
I still dont understand LoL references, but watch the videos.
i get its a joke but it would actually funny if t1 didnt get masters already
The year is 2050, league is played by less than 100 people. QTpie has finally reached rank 1, "Lisha I did it!" he yells excitedly. The sound echoes through the empty mansion. Lisha had left long ago...
Riot : *drops huge patch*
League Players : *cries*
Osfrog : *laughs in dota*
Yeah for real, every few months osfrog just decides to fuck shit up lmao
Riot really doesn’t want Uzi to win one world championship tittle.
Well, he won 1. Forgot what that is. But I think it's not worlds.
Ricky Manalo thats MSI not worlds
Riot is not forcing you to play different role. They are telling u to play different champions im every role. Like dota.
yep LOL is now dota. was saying it when i saw the patch notes through out update 8, kept saying, this looks more and more like dota, then BAM its fking dota
Man with you pick adc against something different you lose, and thats bullshit. every Champion should be vaible and thats Cleary not happening.
The problem is that it appears they accidentally deleted Marksmen champions from viability. Moving them to different roles should be the goal, not just pushing them off to the side.
yeah the thing is, what made me play league and not DOTA was that, now is just chaos, is just I like sdtale meta and that was what many pro players and people like about the game, I understand that you either hate it or love it, But I as a ex-master adc main, have decayed to plat 1 because they just decided to take a shit on me, its not balancing, its just "we care more about the money than staying loyal to what made the people stay playing our game" and its not just adc, all of my freinds have stopped playing the game beacuse it dosent make sense any more, its not league og legends, its another shit, it would have been better to just create another fucking MOBA or some shit, fuck Riot Games and their balance teams.
makes sense to copy a failing game as a successfull game dev
The game mechanic is starting to feel like dota
i dont even play LoL why am i watching this
This meta feels like a return to season 1/ preseason 1. Very fun for the game, but a nightmare for pro players.
If this meta stays, I won’t.
Jon Natale bye-bye
gtfo, change is needed and this one is welcome.
Jon Natale me too
you will not be noticed or missed
Make crit great again.
Manuel Méndez bring back my Xayah :’(
Pichu Xayah is still strong. Just look at Doublelift. He can still carry on that champ
yeah let's make crit adc good at every stage of the game again, adc aren't meant to be strong in the early game
Pichu Try Lethality Xayah
Manuel Méndez crit is cancer,this is better for game
While they do give more interesting games, it doesn’t reflect the fact that all those traditional adcs are completely not played anymore
they are played alot in lower elo, which is the majority.
in higher divisions they weren´t played anyways, you always had about 3 to 5 adc´s reigning supreme above all others, resulting in the others not really being played^^ i think in terms of viability you could say the same thing right about now, there still are good marksmen you can play into tanks or mages botlane, but there also is bad ones that will pretty much lose any matchup or don´t build well against what`s meta
Whats wrong with that? ADCs has been at the top of the meta for forever, its time that they fall down the tierlist like assassins and tank supports
I think you need to get your brain checked. ADCs occupied bot lane for 7 seasons, and throughout this period of time there hasnt been non-adcs that were played in the bot lane in professional games without being considered as troll pick/champ by casters. Its time assassins or mages get to go to bot lane without being considered a troll pick, like how kai'sa/ezreal got to play jungle or lucian got to play mid/top.
Oh and don't worry. I mained nidalee until season 7 came and absolutely destroyed it. Just learn a new champ and stop being so "traditionalist" like your name says. The game evolves, and one day we might even have tanks mid and assassins as support
Bryan Toh Thats like saying tanks and bruisers are op because they occupied top for 8 seasons,and mages and assassins are op because they occupied mid for 8 seasons or that supports are broken because they have been bot for 8 seasons...thats fucking retarded,now tanks and bruisers have 3 lanes,adcs have none
Also we do have an assassin support and tanks indeed go mid like galio or maokai,bloody hell have you even bothered playing before talking?
Personally I've been loving the esports scene right now.
For months people were complaining that LoL was getting stale, boring, and predictable.
Saying that earlier seasons were better.
Now we're basically back to season 2 or 3 and we never know what exactly to expect. And people won't stop bitching about it.
The thing is, people just like to bitch, moan, and complain about everything. They didn't really miss the earlier seasons, they just want to complain.
As far as pros having to play things they aren't comfortable with I say git gud. A basketball player may have one role they are best in, but you bet your ass they have to know how to play the other roles if it ever comes to that.
Now, as an ADC main, I do feel like Riot did ADCs a little dirty (except for Ezreal fuck him they need to nerf him more imo), but I understand that they wanted to switch things up. Darius x Blitz botlane is a fucking blast. And it's been nice to try different things and experiment.
The game ain't gonna die any time soon. And games have lasted longer than LoL has been alive. WoW is still doing pretty well almost 20 years later! LoL still has a shload of players and the esports scene is still going strong, and like you said, the pros gotta learn to be more flexible, it's time we got some new blood on the scene that's more adaptable and unpredictable. Bringing in new strategies and playstyles. LoL changes faster than any IRL sport, so it's obvious that the career of any esports personality is going to go by faster than IRL sports. A basketball player has 10-20 years in their career and it's looking like an esports career is around 5-10 years at max so far.
In conclusion, this type of thing hasn't been done before (except WoW), esports is still in infancy and the scene still has some growing to do. I feel like all this doomsaying is doing nothing but annoying people at this point. There's nothing concrete and until it actually does die, we should just accept that LoL is going to be here the next year, and next year we should assume the same for the next. It's utterly pointless to continue on saying LoL is dead or dying until Riot announces they're shutting down the servers.
Ryan Madison fcking god, finnaly a voice of reason.
Thanks man. I'm just getting sick to death of all this dumb shit. Glad to see I'm not alone either!
Thank you good sir. I love it when an ADC main comes and speaks good about the new meta. I'm a jungle main myself but ADC is probably my second best role (Even though I fucking despise playing any role other than jungle unless i'm duoing) so I have some experience with the bot lane and how the meta works down there. I did main it for a little while but that was back when I was bouncing to and from characters/roles and was still silver xd. The meta down there was stale and boring so I'm glad that I actually have some interest in a role that isn't jungle now.
Edited: spelling mistakes
Ryan Madison just wanna say wow has been like 14-15 years not 20, but the warcraft franchinse is over 20
Ryan Madison Maybe my Fiddle Sticks mid lane meta can finally happen. Loving the games current state.
I actually like this, LoL was getting a bit stale with the exact same comps over and over and over and-
However, the issue seems to be when someone's, well, JOB or career is to play an ADC... then, yeah, ouch.
barty1995 Playing one role in league might make you amazing. But playing multiple roles amazingly makes you better than the guy that can only do one.
LynustheJok3r so then it’s the old argument, would you be a jack of all trades or master of one?
Exactely my thoughts.
Been playing since season 2, and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon.
Its way more fun and interesting without having to play the same strategy every game.
Yeah. League is having a riot. In Dota, we call this Thursday.
Chill you guys. When the dust settles and small tweaks are made, this is probably going to be a brave new world for a lot of you. Have fun with it. Your pro players will find ways. Never underestimate human creativity.
What do you mean by thursday?
probably their patch day :P
Every second Thursday we have a patch. It alternates between some gameplay and mechanics balance tweaks (e.g. item cost changes, buyback cost changes, kill and building bounty changes) in one patch and hero changes in the next.
It's not crazy for us to see sudden meta shifts when patches hit, carry heroes being used as supports, hard carries ("hard" being a classification of the ones that take the most farm to come online but scales with items the hardest) being almost un-viable picks, or players taking up new roles in the team. Heck, players switching roles an farm priority and lane from game to game is a norm.
Frankly, in my opinion, its fun to watch pros get creative.
and unsurprisingly, thats what they're doing. playing the same strategy every game
Funnelling. Good one mate, got any others?
That 'what the fuck' at the beginning got me laughing 😂😂
Riot needs two metas a competitive (and flex queue) meta and a solo queue meta, this way the pro play scenario can be less volatile and team focussed and solo queue can be somewhere where one or two players win lane and guide their team to victory. Some key differences can be bounties being global in one and individual on another queue. Another example is complex champions like ryze and azir who riot struggle to balance for both pros and casuals, can have different stats in each queue.
Awesome video. Nice editing, speaking, etc. Well done.
9:27 "different and creative strategies" *playes video of master yi right clicking and spamming q*
he skill shot
he triccshot
but most importantly
he flick shot
Congrats on 300k! Really deserved it 👌👌👌
The guy that talks in these videos is spot on. Great work man. I could listen to ANY story you have to tell, even if I could give zero fucks otherwise. Great narrative. :D
until a few weeks ago, i not put much time into league in over a year, because they were doing too much to upend the knowledge i had of the game - now, it does seem like, at the moment, it has stabilized a bit, so i have started playing some again, but that year+ gap should say something, as someone who has played since season 3, but almost entirely missed season 8
I actually like these marksman changes cause ADC’s could burst squishies before they could even cast an ability which is not what they’re meant for and we’re way too strong for being simple ranged right click champs
Although I think the changes makes it interesting with all the different picks possible, as a marksman man I miss the fun I used to get from the early game skirmishes at bot, and then the fun maintained as I had to make more actions per minute later in order to stutter step with a higher attack speed late game
I don't think marksmen should be as unpopular as they've been lately, but I do think they shouldn't have the undisputed dominance in what is picked. They should just be as good as every other option if played correctly.
ThatShinyPiplup the problem was that marksmen mains went from having a defined place next to a support to carry them through early game, to having no place on the rift. It was as game changing as we have gotten in a long time. It wasn't just the "op" champs that got nerfs. Kalista for example needed a buff compared to how other champions of similar skill level were performing. Every adc got nerfed. Weather they needed it or not, every ad lost base stats in an already early game meta. If this happened during ardent meta this would have been fine.
And honestly I think it's a bad thing that a role is SO defined that once it gets shaken up everyone loses their shit
back when theres the variety of colorful smite in 2015, i dont considered playing adc in botlane but as an APC all ap carry to burst adc without kiting so much. the red smite + lichbane is awesome back from the day hehe
I love this meta! It feels like old league again and I've missed that league so much! I genuinely get to play Volibear and Teemo as a duo bot and I'm not accused of trolling! Long live the crazy meta!
I agree 100%
veigar apc is a pretty fun time. if only i knew how to play azir...
Fk u troller report ur ass if I see u 😈
I left 2 years ago and came back solely because of this new meta. I love it.
What's the big deal you ask? It's the constant change in lieu of a lack of ability to balance to keep us playing. It's fine for pros that can knock out 50 new games of a meta champ but those of us that play here and there get our main crushed in a single patch it gets kinda tiring and annoying. If they could balance it would be fine.
nfc14g its a lot harder to balance a game like league rather than lets say dota. Dota has simple ass champs, even niggas like invoker and chen are realistically hella simple. Where as in league you have the most non sensical champs that are nye impossible to balance without fucking the game up entirely.
nfc14g Me personally I wanted the change to happen. League games just became stale, the same shit all the time all the time. At least in dota you can have some people make batshit crazy awesome picks that work out. Hell in dota the postions are a suggestion. If you wanna go 2 top 3 mid, if you got a good enough strat you might just win
Falci Main yeah DotA is a much more balanced game. For example last world champs DotA players used around 90% of champions. League used 30-40%. Stale is not the issue, they just don't know how to balance so there's such a small amount of effective champions
Falci Main yeah some of the champ design is quite ambitious and they do pull it off well a lot of the time which is great, especiall when they don't have to change anything. It's when they do need to balance it almost always goes awry. The community all seem to go x champ is busted because of x. X would fix that right up. Then Rito goes and does y. Almost every time lol.
At the end of the day whether a player liked it or not, it just depends on their own character. If you like routine you hate the meta, if you like to be dynamic you’d love the meta change. Myself hated that because I’ve spent so much time to learn the hidden rules of being an ADC, learn how to kite better with marksman etc, but i am now quite useless into the game.
I couldn't agree more about this
This new IE is very strong,even stronger than the old one,gotta admit it , but the point is u have to build other critation at first before u can actually make the IE useful with its passive. A 1000km way build doesnt make players feel comfortable anyway
I personally love this. Early on, people didn’t know what was best in the game, but the meta of “tank/bruiser top, ganking jungler, mage/assassin mid, ranged ADC and support bot” emerged pretty quickly, because it all worked the best with the game. But then the pros started to experiment. They swapped bottom and top to gain an advantage, and back then, Riot pushed back. They added extra armor to the top and mid turrets so that playing a solo bot lane meant you lost your turret. They added specific jungle items to prevent lane roles from getting enough experience from jungle monsters to get a real advantage. They did things for the sake of keeping the meta consistent, and it felt really bad. So I’m glad they’re changing the approach, and allowing for experimentation. Whether you like the specific things they’ve done or not, I hope you can agree that the enjoyment of the game is more important than the consistency of the pro scene
This meta might not be the best but I really like their intention. It open up the team comp by making marksman not compulsory. It's has been awhile I am excited about competitive league. Can't wait to see this year's world as this meta pans out.
Let's face it league needs this in dota there are HUGE meta swings usually twice a year, and to top it all off you can play most heroes in a multitude of different roles, this change might even get my back into league (quit during S4)
I think Riot has to be cautious about frequent changes. The thing that mainly had me move away from league was that I had a period where i simply didnt have the time to play and keep up with changes and when i came back the whole Game had changed. I was basically playing like an entire skill tier below what i was before. That got me so annoyed that I switched to cs and never looked back. While changes like that are good at mixing up gameplay i think riot really has to give a lot of thought about Timing and frequency of patches in order to give pros time to adapt and be a peak Performance for competiton. After all seeing some pro do insane stuff is was keeps you interested and striving for more
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the current meta. Not to suggest that more variety is bad -- _I'm all for shaking things up a bit_ -- but I don't find this clown fiesta fun to play. I prefer when games like this have a good semblance of structure to them, e.g. when characters have clearly defined roles, strengths and weaknesses.
There's not much point in running the traditional Marksman-ADC when we can just _meme it up_ with Yasuo/Xerath bot or whatever and get the same level of success. This _"Anything goes"_ meta is what I'd expect from something like URF or ARAM, but not the *core game.* It makes things _too_ unpredictable, and more than anything just tells me that Riot isn't confident with what they want League to be.
And _no,_ I don't think the game was getting "too stale". There's more than enough content in the game as is to keep it alive and healthy. Hell, just switching roles from ADC (my main) to Top is enough to keep me coming back. And it's not like there's isn't a constant flow of new content: whether it be new skins, game modes on rotation or entirely new champions.
The game was _already_ in a healthy, stable state -- All Riot had to do was maintain this state with constant small fixes to make sure nothing was _too_ overpowered/underpowered. You do that, and you can keep the game alive for as long as you want.
_(EDIT): I'm also not convinced that this was the right way to go about things if their intent was to attract new players. The larger, more "casual" (for lack of a better term) market of players IS, always HAS BEEN and always WILL BE very "one and done". Players find the "new, hot game", pick it up for a month or so, and then drop it once the next game comes around. Nothing Riot does will convince them to stick with League because that's just not how they operate. By contrast, competitive gamers, i.e. the ones that keep League alive, will naturally find their way to the game and stick with it if they like it -- but they'll only like it if it's made with competitive play in mind. And to reiterate what I mentioned above, why should they care about choosing a specific role and getting better at it, if any random champion can waltz in and get the same results?_
Nah, off-meta picks like Lucian/Vayne Top or are fun every now and then for the cheese factor (the same way Yasuo Bot is fun every now and them), but I'd definitely prefer that they stay firmly in the Bot lane while Darius/Camille/etc. stay dominant in the Top lane.
And actually, if I can give Riot props for one thing it's that Top lane has *finally* been getting a share of the love. It just irks me that picking Irelia Bot is _not_ considered trolling while picking Tristana _is._
But the real question here is SHOULD the game's roles be clearly defined. The reason you could win against a typical bot lane with a "fiesta" comp is because the dynamics of the two "meme" champions counter the enemy champions. It's because for so long most people are used to every bot lane being ADC+SUPP VS ADC+SUPP that they fail to realize that ADD+SUPP isn't a perfect combo, and has counters like any other type of pick.
edit: another reason the "meme" comp could win is also because people are so used to "normal" ADC+SUPP matchups that they simply don't know how to fight something different, which is a bad thing imo because something shouldn't be so defined that if something different is picked you have no idea how to deal with it.
The future is now old man
Evidently so
StrunDoNhor Totally agree with what you said. As an adc main i hate how only 2 or 3 of them are viable now, there are 10 or so adcs that i cant play anymore simply because they can't deal with the people coming bot lane early game, they weren't made to. The item change doesn't help also i feel it was better for bruisers and mele crit champs than adcs. As you said i don't mind them changing up the game, let those bruisers come bot but at least make adcs viable, i see 1 adc every 10 or so games nowdays.
thing is this is the old league we are experiencing. we asked for the old league days and not to be confined to the meta, Riot delivered. Legit in comparison to before mid season there were only a few combinations bot, but now, you can mix and match your own and discover your own meta and test it against others. I went from an unranked lux player to top 61st in oce from experimenting with lux bot as an adc. The meta is exiting because you never know which champs your going to be up against, mid/top is a little stale but even then interesting picks like the taric yi can be made and karthus nunu. Overall, this meta sucks for people who cant adapt and think of combinations/strategies that work, but for those that are innovative and can discover new and interesting combinations to beat out opponents its like a dream come true. Sure it may not be overall healthy atm, however the meta is yet to settle and some slight adjustments to adcs will bring them back, remember it only takes a few small number tweaks, ratios and even adc item buffs for them to become op.
I prefer this kind of meta where the team who is creative and understands the meta has an edge but skill is something that can outshine everything
What's so difficult about this? Starcraft pro players change their playstyles and races played all the time. Smash Players play a huge variety of characters and know all their moves. Dota pro players consistently pick over 95% of the hero pool in the game, and individual players make huge shifts in playstyle, from support, to mid, to carry. Even in matches from one game to the next in a concurrent series, those players change their priority in farm frequently. What is it about League of Legends that makes doing the same harder or not as doable?
It's a type of mentality that's been enforced by Riot. People that haven't experienced the breadth of variety in other games think League of Legends is made of solid gold when it's actually just polished shit (rhetorically speaking).
Melee players definitely don't change up their characters lol... They main one and the game never changes. But newer smashes ya I agree
The thing with Starcraft and Smash is that the game is meant to be played as a solo player. As a solo, you’re more accustomed to changing up the play style to best suit how you can win. In games such as Dota and League, you have 5 players. Now you have a team of players that have their unique specialities.
Give it or take, individual games such as Smash or Starcraft REQUIRE you to know how to play different races/characters, and style. Everyone here can be great as one race/character but will also be able to play others and have a counter strat or cheese they know in the other.
In a team environment, you are expected to be at the TOP of your role. That’s why they were chosen. Now you have a shift that’s not part of your yearly routine. Whereas in Dota, that’s part of the meta since forever, the change and need to adapt, League can injure a players career who has played 6 years to best master let’s say mage mid. Now you’re in unfamiliar territory playing support mid as the best player in the world. Or jungle as one of the most competent top laners. Or worst case scenario, you just lost your job because a team game requires the better adaption of 5 players. With individuals, they take time to learn things because that’s part of their meta. With 5, you’re splitting the things each needs to master.
You ask why it’s difficult? Imagine NFL where you make Tom Brady go from QB to Linebacker or some catcher. He’ll go from the best quarterback of the century to riding the bench. He doesn’t have the greatest build, his defense isn’t insanely good, but he does have the game sense to know how to make use of his role.
well put friend
@KujouJ1 The only reason why League pros have difficulty in adapting is because the game has been designed so rigidly for so long. If Dota and other games can do it, League should be striving for the same kind of diversity and flexibility not just in their meta, but in their pro-players.
This is why I find the comparison to sports odd--most esports games are patched consistently and the meta constantly fluxes with it. You can't expect the same kind of stability that a sport that hasn't been changed over many, many, many years will have.
Aren't they creating ranks for each position in season 10? How do you rank up adc if you have to play ryze bot lane to get through laning phase?
Tbh everyone thats happy about the changes are ppl that didn't play markman only. its the ppl that played other lanes and dies to markmans. Its feel horrible to have everyone you played nerf to the point that your not strong enough to be pick in games because champs from other role can bully and kill you at every stage of of the game. Though what worse is that you cant even be picked anywhere else because markman can only be played with supp cuz they are weak in lane.
This. ADC main here, and this was the last straw for me. We get ONE good season as marksmen, and then they gut ALL the crit adcs. I'm done with League, and honestly I don't miss it.
Yeah screw people who are self aware enough to realize that only being good at one thing is bad in a team game where you aren't always guaranteed to get your main role or champion.
I'm a support main who mostly plays Soraka, but that doesn't mean I can't play other roles. It's my responsibility to be good enough at a sufficient number of roles, plus a few picks for each role, so that if things don't go to plan i'm not a liability, because doing right by my team is more important than my own personal ego.
If Riot changes something or you get autofilled and you suddenly can't play the game, that's 1000% on you, and you were never really good at this game.
I love it personally, more variety, plus it reminds me of dota's meta where finally almost everything is viable, if you put it in the right place, when you pick swain bottom on my smurf and get called troll but stomp, is now the meta and I love it.
whether you're happy or not, you only have 2 option : adapt or quit.
i rarely play league. but after this guy explains what does patch 8.10 onward does, i have a flashback about dota 7.00
I quit.
I kinda like the meta because of the unpredictability, it forces you to expand your hero/champion pool (bot plays mage, jungle plays support, etc) and do the unthinkable (4 protect mid on-hit/rageblade adc)
not good for adc mains i cant carry 1 v 9 now i need team
honestly, I'm a top main but now I go adc cause I don't want any other champ besides an actual adc in the bot lane because i think it's stupid
expanding your champion pool, forcing you to pause learning macro play such as map awareness, controlling minion waves and taking out objectives, and just makes you learn other champions kits and combos. it forces you to learn champions instead of the game which is a big reason why people are hard stuck because they never learn the game only champions. I don't like this meta
i am sorry, but it is champions and not heroes. thank you!
For me, as an ADC Main (MF One Trick Pony), it's a bad meta tbh, I know that consistency is needed here but, it depends on other players if they like to play other champions and learn
wow this sounds like league is actually becoming fun now :o
da real rulezbreaker tell that to all the adc that dont have a dash or any build in dmg that is only viable because their main dmg sources was basic remove from the game
so what? The entire concept that team compositions are frozen in place and can not change because you need 1adc 1supp etc ect is boring.
Now you dont know what tactic or composition the opposing team could have thought up.
Before you already knew, because there was only 1 viable way to compose a team.
da real rulezbreaker it matters if your love playing the role that was gutted because well think of it from where we come from having every thing you thought was fun about the game removed and not being able to play in any role cause you cant even survive
hm, i see where youre coming from but the meta in general and especially the competitive scene is gonna get a lot more exciting overall. i havent played lol in years tbh and i dont know how much the adcs are fucked, are they not viable at all anymore? Like of the many team compositions that could(will?) become viable now there should be some where adcs are in right?
da real rulezbreaker pretty much all the adc are fucked to the point of they are not even worth playing that why the adc are not played in pro scene so it may look cool from the outside but in game you feel horrible
It's not a new meta it's just Riot deliberately gutted adc's so now you're forced to play a bruiser
not all adcs were gutted too, just crit ones.
Gregory Samuel Teo Yea so that makes those AD Carries unviable as hell. If you try to even play a crit ADC have fun because you need 3 items to even kill squishies.
i recently saw some pros trying to funnel crit tris... it was a hilarious experiment.
"meta" is the state of the game that arises from the playerbase's response to the changes made by the devs.
Just because you don't like the change made by the devs, doesn't make the meta "not a new meta".
It's not most effective tactic avaible! It's just Riot forced it into being most eff... wait...
Everything would be pretty ok, but the nerfs on adc's were slightly too harsh. Now you literally need 3+ items to deal any sort of damage if you're playing something else (not lucian, ezreal..), where as any sort of other champion that is played in botlane right now kills you off at level 3, with no items in 1.5 rotations. I was an ADC main and playing one right now seems to be just asking to drop your LP to the bottom of the pit. I am fine with facing a mage or what ever, but atleast give me a chance to fight back instead of some quality 'if you die once buddy, you're fucked, even god damn supps will ruin you' gameplay..
As I recall, these changes were ment for the idea that anyone could carry if you're good enough, though if you're playing traditional adcs, that aint happening. Simple thing, look at Imaqtpie, former top 20-ish NA adc main, currently fighting for his life against the D1 police.
I mean it’s fun not having to worry about a curve crit attack that hit you around the corner because a range attack that’s so far
More champions being viable in different positions is a great thing, but i also need to be able to lock in Jinx, twitch, vayne, or kogmaw without getting reported for greifing, and right now, i cant do that.
I've actually been having alot more fun with this current meta and enjoyed watching pro play so much more were it doesn't seem like you have to wait 30min for something to happen.
Yup no need to prolong the game if you get ahead.
I don't play League so I don't know what a lot of this means even after he explained it but I play a lot of Overwatch and the meta in that game is VERY stale and VERY unfun it's part of the reason why so many players left and I would love for OW to become more like current LoL as I understand it because it sounds like it's much more unpredictable and exciting and has opened the door for more fun and wild strats but like I said I don't know anything about LoL so I might be off the mark
it's patch 9.8 now buddy, the most weird shit that works is sona taric and that might be gutted soon just like frostmancy, zzz rip
I have to laugh at the ADC mains complaining. Now you know how we supports felt all these years when the likes of Annie, Morgana, Zyra, Kennen, Shen, and Karma invaded our role and made Sona, Soraka, and Taric obsolete to the point that they needed to be reworked.
WE, DOTA 2 PLAYERS, WELCOMES LOL PLAYERS, AND ACCEPT THEM HAPPILY.
wow, never seen a dota player like you.
E G G typical toxic LoL player. It's not your fault.
Charlie Chavez that's the difference between casual gamers vs hardcore gamers
Manoj I've played 5 games of dota, and i've heard 15 screaming russians, and was flamed in 2 games for not being as good as the rest of the team (yeah being a player with 5 games put up against a player with 3k)
If over half of the european server population is Russian, then I don't think it's a welcoming community (Cyka blyat report)
Soul lol, yeah for that you need to find some new friends who are not as toxic as those people. And play as a 5 man party.
I might be a little biased as a tank support main, but I hate this meta. Its just not fun fighting against mages and assasins. Not to mention the only viable adc's are also ADC's I hate playing with or against.
My problem with the meta isn't the new strategies being used. My issue is the apparent death of the viability of an entire category of champions: marksmen.
Bang please dont leave!
League is like a molten rock being reshaped, right now we have chaos but by the end of it all a new meta will develop.
Its like that dota 2 meme where a famous player by the name of n0tail says "anything can work". Riot and the players have put that shit to the test it seems
Waaaay too late for them to do it though.
Adc main, I can’t play any adc without being considered trolling from my team. Also this might sound stupid but if I’m playing a hyper carry adc, I’m sacrificing my early game for a late game. But the problem is I pick someone like Vayne into a let’s say, Brand. He outdamages me early mid , and late. Unless I have 6 items I’m useless. Bring back old IE and the game would be fine.
It's not an accident this happens immediately after franchising. As long as it stays to roster swaps teams are not going to feel a lot of this pain financially. That burden is only on the players who helped elevate it to it's current level of popularity. It's something riot could not have done without first making sure team owners become dependent on riot rather then their roster.
Pre-season 11.
-Me: Finally, i can being a good ADC with the new items.
*Riot nerfs critical items and critical damage*.
Ah, fuck up!.
The caster on Riot got "speculation" (I don't know the right term) that the reason SKT keep on losing is because they can't easily adopt to those metas. I'm not a great player but I know 2 AP champions are really scary especially if you can't kill them immediately on a team fight like what happened on game 5 of their series with G2.
The recent changes helped to prevent big snowballs, so getting a shut down is like get a tower, im falling in love with League again, cause there are so much things to do and try, you DON'T HAVE TO search as always the best BUILDS AND RUNES FROM PROS, YOU CAN IMPROVISE, LIKE BEFORE
Oh noes, my role isnt Op anymore, but I cant play anything else, what am I going to do.
The game is almost 9 years old, and 9 years of same map position. I don't know why no one question about that?
Lmao some people in the comments say they played this one role for more than 3 years in a row and now its gone. Like, srsly - "100+ different champs? Naaaaaaah, just gonna play MF 10000o0o0o times."
SO.. what I am hearing is the pros are not really pros because they only know how to play 1 role and are like 'derp nao I lernn two roles how do?"
AT least that is what it sounds like to me.
For me you should be able to throw any champion in any role and the a 'pro' should be able to lay that as excellent as they would a traditional champion and role combo.
We have gone back to Season 1 onwards to the return of season 2
I don't mind the changes. I just wish they wouldn't happen so fast. If i step away from the game for 2 weeks, im Bronze all of a sudden.
like everything had been revolving around adcs
can sups protect them
can mid laners burst them
can jgers help them snowball
can top laners absorb their damage
but now you have a choice to play the game however you want
At the expense of an entire class and a completely different meta to achieve this.
It's not like adc are trash now
Lucian, ezreal, kai'sa and jhin are still perfectly viable
It's only that you have choice other than adc
Adcs are literally trash - according imqtp, doubleliftt, and phylol. Not for anything, but I think their opinions on this have a bit more weight then yours.
While DOTA 2 has a gameplay patch every 2 weeks.
Time to say goodbye to league
Agreed. Its so funny how lots of lol people dont understand on why we MOBA gamers should learn to adapt because its 2018 lots of new game categories that gathers more audience rather than the old caegories like MOBA who has lots of competitive market like dota vs lol.
why are you here tho?
Yea but usually those patches don't make heroes unviable
@mark vincent simeon because we subscribe to the channel? does it say exclusive League channel anywhere? not sure why you butthurt over it thou.
Faker and bjerksen got hit the most in this because they’re solid mid players with great mechanics. Although they have great mechanics they can’t move instantly to support. Some people are build just for one role.
I was very mad at them, cause i was unable to play my main kassadin against this heavy early game stompers. But now they made kassadin great again. Quadras and Pentas!
Ive been playing league for 4 years and i love these changes. This is the best thing thats happened to league, period. The diversity and fun to be had is amazing
bring back devourer tf and I'll play again
it's called dark harvest tf, maybe.
The difference between this and old changes, was that jungle and support were broken early, they fixed jungle so the level 3 gank wasn’t great, but supports were too good, lulu and Janna did too much poke and let their adcs free farm, although they don’t go all in, they still pushed opponents into tower and went even, but since you have ardent, your adc is stronger than the other. And playmaking supports, especially with ignite, were too strong early game. But riot nerfed the wrong role, adcs. And it messed up the game
It’s not a freedom in draft or champion diversity when marksmen are just being pushed out of the game, especially crit ones. Champion diversity should be champs in every role, like in earlier seasons of league, or like huni picking Lucian top, but this is not it, this is a change in the bot lane since adcs can no longer get the gold they need since new adc items are ridiculous in price and delay adc spike despite us being in a “ff at 15 meta”.
IMO every lane should be able to snow ball and carry in their own ways, top either gets very tanks or split pushes, jungle tries to out path his opponent so he can dominate more resources and get more lanes ahead, and mid can get ahead and roam to open up the map for his team. Adcs should focus on getting gold and getting his core items to carry, those items used to be balanced since they were a bit cheaper than traditional items and were just as effective because zeal items were cheap, and can only be utilized well by adcs, or weaker early game champs, like yi. And support had no place, you just try to get the adc fed, which created an illusion that adcs were much stronger, but the real reason was because supports were very strong and too easily fed kills and cs, which allowed the adc to hit earlier item spikes. So why not a nerf in support? Idk, but adcs are in a very bad position rn, and strats like gold funneling just aren’t good.
"hes gonna play taric in a professional game" Id like to remind everyone of Albus NoX using their mains and absolutely destroying the team they faced. Poppy/Anivia. Yes they went on to lose over stupidity, but it just goes to show its about the players and in no way shape or form the meta. Take any team and give them off roles with top meta picks and give the other team normal rolls with #1 mains and see who comes out on top. Just something that always got under my skin when I hear castors talk about it.
yeah but they're playing offrole 😂
league was a "free" game.. players made the meta.. the game itself never said that you should always have marksman in your team.. so what's the harm?
No, you were never forced to have a marksman, but without one, you would lose after 30 minutes when their marksmen can right click on you and crit for 1k dmg, 2 shotting you. And, with no marksmen, any tanks they have are now unkillable. The meta is not determined by the players, it's determined by whatever is op at the time, which is determined by riot's balance patches.
if.. they can even last 30 min. 30 min. a league game is too long.
and.. no.. marksmen can''t kill tanks anymore
Its fine if meta allow no adc but there should be a balance between roles set up.
Tbh its not that bot lane is more open its more of they nerf a role to a point where they cant be played. Its like saying remove all hp items and defs item and call it a new meta where you dont have to play a tank in top lane
probably one of the greatest patch riot have done were back at s1 again
What pisses me off is we get a meta where I can play Lucian in the bot lane and not be trolling my team. And then all this he'll breaks loose. I love LOL but this is just another ding among many that starting to add up to me looking for another game and place.to take my money.
To Be Fair... Pro Players just LOVE to play these new crazy comps and thats actually what keeps the game feel fresh and enjoyable, the silly things... the small but silly things... Just look at the smile on their faces when they make their picks... you will understand why...
Watching the pro league now is better than ever but playing the actual game is like biting your balls off, its just a painful experience. So much so that I am thinking of just giving up and so are a lot of the people I know which is a shame because the game can be fun.
This is why sports like hockey make huge changes every season so its not the same old meta every year and people don't get bored of it.
Wait...
Yep, imagine if the NFL suddenly banned the wide receiver mid-season. That's basically what Riot did. A lot of old time adc mains, like myself, are just done with the game. Yeah, mid laners and top laners are 'having fun' taking their champs bot, but adc mains...we're either raging or quitting. Personally, I'm out.
Moving focus from objectives to kills seems not great to me. Though i haven't played in over 2 years, i don't want it to just be a slug fest, there are other games for that
Teams start coming up with innovative, interesting and really intelligent strategies and the people who think that a game which has a static role boring role for each member is shitting themselves
Ive been climbing to plat with singed bot for 2 years now. Meta is not that new. Its just being discovered.
This definetly sucks for people who get their income by maining ADC, but i'm a support main (around gold level) and this has yet to affect even one of my games for the worse. But for what it's worth, it's always a good idea to have a large pool of champions you can play, and to be adaptable. It's sort of like those people who 'can't support', or feed if they're assigned anything but their main role. You're not really that good at League if you can only do one thing really well. I'm sort of a Soraka support onetrick, but I don't feed my ass off in any other role. I'm not a great jungler because I don't enjoy many jg champs or the role itself, but I can at least not feed my ass off if I get forced to play that way.
I think that's the minimum you should expect from any player in this game. You don't have to own and master every champion, but if you don't get your main pick or Riot changes some stuff and you suddenly can't play the game anymore, that's 100% on you.
I do feel bad for the pros though, that's a very different situation than non-pro players just complaining because the meta changed and they have to stretch out of their comfort zone a little bit.
Also as a support main i've seen some shit, so supporting a Nasus botlane isn't even a new situation for me, I can take that kind of bullshittery in stride, so even if the new meta does affect one of my games, it's not really that bad.
And then there's the Cho/Kog lane I just faced last game. And no, the Kog wasn't the ADC, the cho was...at least I think. That lane made next to no sense, but then again, as confused as I was as to what they were doing, the people playing that lane had zero idea what they were doing either, and it sucked for them, because we were playing Vayne/Soraka, and both of us were good with our champs, had good synergy, and were against two confused idiots who didn't know what they were doing. If anything, this new meta is a good thing if you aren't a pro player, because half the time it means that if you stick with what's comfortable, you'll be against people who think up is suddenly down and black is suddenly white and adc chogath and support kogmaw (both with smite, pretty sure they were just trolling, definetly were duo) is a good call.
I also just want to point out that back when League started, people just did whatever botlane and it mostly worked out. The meta is a good thing, but it's not great to be 100% reliant on it. Sometimes a weird pick works, and sometimes it doesn't. Personally, I prefer to stick with what my team will know and understand. Innovation is great, but sometimes when you do quirky stuff it can mess up your team because they don't know what to expect, and even if it's really well thought out and works really well, you can kinda hamstring your teammates if they don't know the strategy you're using. So it's generally a good idea to stick to the meta because it increases your chance of winning, not because the meta is a cut and dried perfect way to play the game.
I'm absolutely fine with Riot trying to keep League fresh - but they've killed a role to do it. Most of my time feels like its been wasted trying to get better at ADC, only for it to binned out the window just as I felt comfortable....
The reason i left lol after reaching D3 in s4 (or 5 cant remember now) was partialy that the game had become too "meta or nothing".
Riot tried to change that by reworking champions all the time but that wasnt the issue. Especially in high elo you had to play the meta champions otherwise your chances of winning were very little.
Combined with super fixed lane roles, it made the game boring.
And i dont get the "unpredictable" argument, worlds this far pretty much proves that the game is in a balanced state but now finally you can pick something a little unconventional without being destroyed.
After seeing this, maybe i will return and check out the game once more.
Last metas are boring, you was easily guessing what will happen. Now it is unpredictable and that makes it fun.
Riot change meta : All player base freak out.
Icefrog change META, MAP POSITION, ITEM, ALL HERO CHANGES : All player base "hmmm, ok. Let's do this'
As an ADC Main this really hurts me😢
Can you do the story of Smoothie? Or C9 Support Player "Smoothie"
I actually like this season/meta more than ardent and tank..
The problem is how strong they made the support role. Too much gold income/dmg/good items. This makes the winning adc into a monster. Change support back to what it used to be pls.
This is just my opinion, if this would continue eventualy this will be the new meta and adc will die, making games 30 mins below. This will be a thing probably until riot plays the game they made. They need to experience this kind of meta change and see if this need fixing ( i hope so) . For now i expect this meta will just last till oct to nov. (Plis dont.)
I’m an ad main and it’s not the fact that other things are viable bot lane it’s the fact that in order to do that riot made it nigh impossible to play ads in the bot lane this is not increased diversity it’s commuting genocide against an entire category of champions
I think Riot just hit the "FUCK IT" button.
No offense to lol players. But in dota or dota2. Pros can adapt depending on their strat. And there are alot more meta changes in dota or dota2 than in lol.
kiddies what do u expect from Lol players? they cry all the time!
clyde kiamco and That's why dota died first.
How is it dead. When the TI's prize pool go to 20million? Hmmmmmm..
Who gives a fuck about the prize pool. It's dead, get over it.
It's not dead though. It's very alive and doing well. Although League is on another level compared to Dota.
Riot banned my account so I stopped playing league for good but I still watch these videos
the pros just cry because their can't do well with this meta.
auear I mean can you blame them? They spent their life practicing a particular role in order to be the best on that role and to have that stripped away or change will be devastating for them