Imo Mercedes has never really had an outstanding strategy/ pit crew, they mostly got carried by having a dominant car, with incredible drivers. They just never really showed how mid those aspects were because their car was so fast it didn't matter. This isn't uncommon for them, it's just now they don't have the best car by a mile, their errors cost them far more.
Something you are not considering is that, by running the car illegally low, Mercedes had an advantage over other teams. With a proper setup they might have been slower.
Red Bull has been operating brilliantly for years. That is why max has been able to steal a bunch of wins in the Mercedes dominated years, when their car (and engine, more precisely) wasn’t good enough.
Right, right...cheating (and not getting penalized), getting huge breaks from the Race Director, but hey! That's called "operating brilliantly" by their fanbois.
agreed. people think that max is the reason why RB won some races prior to 2021. that's a huge disservice and disrespect to their aggressive strategies and their ability to capitalize on some mercedes strategical blunders (happened more often than you'd think) combined with the fact that mercedes were traditionally weak at some tracks like monaco and singapore.
@@WebShaman01 I truly realize that hating on Red Bull gives you some sense of superiority and no amount of common sense would convince you to part ways with your moronic convictions but still here I go. Do you hate on Merc for their illegal testing ahead of 2014 regulations?
Oooof. Watch 'The Race' video on the topic. Of course Red Bull faces challenges on bumpier tracks, because they make an effort to avoid disqualification. This is also why Mercedes managed to 'close the gap.' Does this take away from Leclerc's stunning qualifying lap? Does it take away from Lewis's best race of the season? Of course, it does. They may bend the rules, but since we can't quantify the advantage gained, it doesn't matter? I'd love to see both of them competing at the front, but Red Bull did a better job and emerged victorious... yet again.
I think we can see how important James Vowles was for the team, the team used to make far less strategic mistakes when he was still a part of the team. And we have also seen a significant improvement in Williams as a whole since Vowles moved there. Losing him was a blow to Merc
I've been an inspection engineer for over 10 years and regularly check a sample % of critical steelwork for thickness. A failure rate of 50% of a sample would definitely prompt an expansion of the test, and there is enough control and expertise in F1 to make every team turn in their planks and wear plates for further testing. This absolutely should still happen now, and everyone (in terms of commentry) should pile the pressure on for them to do this. Given that this test and rule is about safety and not performance, it's highly comparable to what my tests are and why they are expanded when finding a non conformance; you must test everything to find all of the failing parts to ensure no one is putting dangerous equipment back into use at full operating stress. If this was one of the tests for proper setup of the wheel nuts, and 2 of 4 cars tested were found to be running loose by the end of the race, that is grounds and proportional to check everyone's regardless of inconvenience.
@@diegovillavicencio3172 If there's a higher chance of certain teams running their cars too low (maybe according to pre race inspections), scrutineers can single out teams, which is what probably happened here. This probably isn't a 50% fail rate, just a 100% fail rate of suspected offenders. Other plank Wear inspections: Australian: Zhou and Sainz Azerbaijan: Russel and Ocon Silverstone: Leclerc Hungarian: Russel and Sainz Italian: Russel and Leclerc Spanish: Hamilton and Hülkenberg Singapore: Max and Alonso Zandvoort: Lando and Hülkenberg As you can see, it's circuit specific and only a few get picked out each time, at a maximum of 2. Due to limited practice running on high fuel loads, more teams had a higher risk of running their car too low.
@@Ivovify there's nothing absurd with testing only a % due to practicality, I haven't contested that, but as an engineering principle, if you only run safety tests on samples and do nothing extra when that sample fails, the whole test is flawed and pointless. You also need to be able to ensure test that there isn't another damage mechanism causing the failure that is outside of the scope of responsibility of the team, and that's revealed if all cars are tested. In terms of practicality, it's a part that shouldn't be discarded, therefore should be possible to gather all planks and wear plates from every team. Everything will have a unique identifier down to each and every nut and bolt (has to, only way to utilise a cost cap) so just get these from the teams when their trucks land in Mexico
The checks were confirmed not to be random, which makes sense, they monitor the bouncing of the cars and then check the suspicious cars+the ones around
The checks are always random, that's the official rule. It's just that the FIA says random, but most of the time checks the podium sitters and somebody else, which is kinda unfair.
I’ll say this, and this is something I’ve thought even since Hybrid Era. Mercedes bad strategies were masked because of how good their car was, and now that their car isn’t leagues better than everyone else, those poor strategies and bad decision making is being exposed a lot more.
yeah and red bull are alot stronger strategy wise as well. they probably have the best strategists on the grid just look how often red bull picked up a win here and there even though merc was miles ahead is crazy now the tables have turned and merc is litteraly nowhere other than that single win george got last year
When you are faster you have more strategic options, I see a lot of Criticism of Ferrari, and they deserve it, but there are also Races where they are criticised and if you go and look at the Data, they simply were not fast enough(example 2022 Hungarian GP), and if you are gaining 1 second a lap to all the other(yes that is Red Bull's margin in long runs this season) even qualification is meaningless, many Races this season I am sure if Verstappen started 20th he would have still won. The Abu Dhabi GP 2021 is another example, Mercedes did not mess up strategy, it was fair of them to assume the Race wasnt restarting, and had FIA followed its procedures and not screw other drivers(those who did not get to unlap behind Max) they would have ended in a Safety car and I am sure, had Lewis stopped, Verstappen would not and Gain track position, because we all saw Verstappen was not going to win that race on pace that is for sure.
I think something you failed to realize is that perhaps sir hamilton and leclerc were only this quick due to lowering their ride height which gave them a edge over norris and officer Verstappen who were running with a higher ride height to protect the plank with as a result less grip
Not really, the performance gained would be under a tenth, if any was gained at all. The ride height wasn't illegal, it was the plank wear. Mercedes will run the same low ride height in Mexico cause there they don't have to fear for too much wear.
I don't think Mercedes spoiled Hamilton's victory. The truth is that if he hadn't been racing with such a low car, he probably wouldn't have even been in the fight for the race. Running the car that low will improve at least a couple of tenths in a lap, which means a gain of several seconds on a race with 60 laps. That's why i dont think lewis would be in the fight with a legal ride height. Runnning the car lower brings huge gains in performance, especially at a track with an entire sector comprised of fast corners, like it is the case at austin.
Especially looking at the performance differences between Hamilton and Russell Their performance usually weren't that far, and in COTA, it shows that they had significant performance differences (though you could say that car #63 might haven't been updated yet)
Mate, how can you say all these things while having no informations about it. Lets stop thinking we know everything in the sport we don't know if they gained an advantage or not
@@alexlacl8730 indeed, but not with RB19's kind of performance (when the RB19 itself weren't as fast as they usually perform here) compared to Russell's more reasonable pace
@@alexlacl8730 Because we know the Merc performs poorly with higher setups. How convenient that the ONE race they have proper pace is the ONE race they end up being disqualified for licking the road too much.
I mean it can be argued that Lewis did have an advantage by having his car set up to run too low. Idk, I dont kbow what's up with Mercedes recently I mean they were never the perfectly oiled machine thst Red Bull is now, I guess thats how you can kinda see them getting exposed operationally. What they could have gotten away with before when they were dominant, they cant get away with now.
@@KoeiNLBased on the information we have its possible the ride height wasn't the main factor to the pace, Lewis always performs well on this track, the upgraded floor for the car hopefully helped too, and Red Bull were slower than usual because of the surface. Its easy to blame it on ride height and its easy to discredit Lewis, but Charles didn't seem to have more pace. I guess we'll see for sure in Mexico and Brazil 👀
Yeah, Merc has always been very weak operationally. But the performance gain from running the car lower apparently gained him well under a tenth per lap, so probably didn't make a difference on race pace.
@@mikevonspeed4396 . No it isn't. It's like if they had a wear limit rule for tyres. You could 'over-wear' them, buy they wouldn't have been illegal when you put them on! The car set up with a fairly low ride-height, but within the rules, so it was perfectly legal at the start of the race. But the COTA track is really bumpy and the kerbs are high, so the car bottomed out a lot more than expected, wearing the plank down. At 9 out of 10 tracks on the calendar there would not have been any problem at all. The car would be set up just the same and the plank wouldn't wear as much.
If F1 is going to continue with the sprint format, they should factor in how the teams can prevent this from happening. If we’re being honest, the sprints are mainly to make the sport more money but if it is negatively impacting the race result, they should reconsider or make amendments
Really it’s just Ferrari and Merc with Red Bull envy. They’ll do whatever to try to win when they know Max is starting in 6th. Parc ferme sure, but they cheated. Norris’ and Verstappen car were both checked and had nothing like Leclerc and Hamilton. If anything Norris would’ve raced harder than those guys because he’s never won before
They should check ALL cars, not just 4 out of 20. Who knows, there MAY have been like 10 cars that should've been disqualified but they all got to keep their points because they weren't checked. It's just wrong on so many levels. Hell, some of them even got more points because the people in front of them lost theirs. Imagine how a championship might be decided (in a non-dominant year) just because the FIA decided to check some cars and not others. This is beyond dumb.
I dont get how this is the only comment I see about this so far, this is a massive issue. If you're not going to do it for all of them then dont do it at all. Theres just so many holes with this 'sampling' method. For one, a team like Williams or heck even Ferrari can take a massive risk and put an illegal part in there and just hope theyre not randomly selected for that part check. Then you have this race, who knows how many cars were illegal, maybe if 14/20 were illegal the FIA would have to rethink any disqualification bc it would be clear the sprint race + track made the rules a bit difficult to comply with. But no, the FIA choses only 4 cars, its mind numbing honestly. I wonder if Mercedes or Ferrari can appeal, if not, its even more stuffed.
Well Merc likes to run their car lower than they should in the ground effect era. Just look last year when they had been willing to give their drivers extreme purpoising for a bit more performance.
My understanding was that all cars were visually inspected & only 4 looked problematic, that's why Charles car was tested. It could explain the outright performance difference between Charles & Carlos & Lewis & George. In 1994 when Schumacher was disqualified, Hill (the eventual race winner) stated that Williams raised his ride height for that reason & it cost between 0.1 & 0.2 seconds a lap. So the Mercedes could have had a big performance advantage due to ride height. We will see in Mexico.
I think for me, it also speaks to just how impressive Max has been, to clutch a win, despite having break issues and just how strong the car is, that even with handicaps and other cars running below the legal limit.
It probably was illegal but fia made an exception because its RB. Remember in 2021 when they allowed red bull to make rear wing adjustments during qualifying.
Yeah the merc was great last week but lets not forget Max was nursing a braking issue throughout the race and would have probably won by 20 seconds if it weren't for that. We can play this game of 'what if' for so many races.
I doubt Lewis was unaware of what is happening to his car. Fact more cars aren't checked for this is an eye opener. Could mean maybe they were gambling it wouldn't be checked this time.
Actually, from all the sources I've heard, the performance gain from the ride height was marginal at best. We're talking significantly under a tenth per lap
In the Sprint Max ended wit a gap of 9.4 seconds without break issues so in the main race one could argue that without those issues, he could have ended with at least 9.4 second advantage ... so really at the end Merc being so near RB in this race more a mirage
You should understand tyre saving... when they know they can't fight the car ahead the settle into a pace.... to merely look at the gaps is silly. During the sprint Leclerc and Hamilton just ran a pace to protect thier tyres as the deg wasn't understood with limited running, but why would you consider that..... Typical Max nut swinger oblivious to what is actually happening.
11 месяцев назад+4
Well, starting a half-hour sprint with 70kg less fuel in board is a very different beast. Max's brake issues only became apparent much later in the race. And "being so near to RB" in an illegal car isn't a mirage, it's cheating. ;)
I'm a Lewis fan, but best not to speak your heart in the comments where haters lurk and troll all day I'm gonna hibernate till Sunday 😂 #trollsincoming
Im surprised that neither of those cars you showed in the beginning had any paint on the planks, In sports car racing that is standard practice, either spray paint or cross hatch marks. After each session you can check the planks and see how/where it is being worn out and adjust RH or dampers accordingly. My team was fortunate enough to be in P2 when the winner was DSQ this year at Watkins 6hr.
@@spartantv6268 if the high class took out the 7 as well as the 6, I'd have stopped watching on the spot. Comiserations to WTR, their Petit Le Mans curse is absurd.
You contracting yourself in the video. On one hand you say that ride hide isn't effecting as much, the other hand Red Bull is bad when they need to change their ride hide... I saw a photo of Verstappen righthide over the curbs next to LH and leclerc and it was a big difference. They both sparked where max his car I felt I could put my hand between. Bottas also noticed that it was a bad weekend for them but if they needed to change their ride hight it would have hurt them even more. Don't underestimate the ride height, but we will see next couple of races.
There was a substantial performance advantage by running the car too low. Therefore the DQ's were justified. Ironically this rule was imposed because of the porpoising antics that were instigated by Mercedes. And about the what could have been ........ like AD2021, he should have pitted (earlier).
I'm guessing you're new to this sport? First, the performance advantage is not substantial. It's only worth about 1 to 2 seconds over the entire race, not each lap. Second, that plank rule was not Mercedes doing, it has been around since 1994 following the accident that killed Ayrton Senna. You must be talking about the floor edge being raised, now that was Mercedes. And why bring up AD2021? Insecure much? 😂 human error...
It’s quite hypothetical. We don’t know how Mercedes would have fared against McLaren, let alone Red Bull, if they raised the ride height to safe levels - similar to the cars that passed the test, namely Red Bull and McLaren. I mean George got beaten by the Ferraris. So the car didn’t work for him; at the same time he didn’t get dsq. Maybe he ran a more conservative setup, and that’s the performance Mercs get out of that car at safe ride height? We don’t know for sure without any proof. Well, we may find out in Mexico.
What? Of course Georges car didn't fail the test. His car wasn't even tested. Only 4 cars were tested (Max, Lewis, Lando and Charles), and out of those, 2 failed. That's 50%, so if every car was tested, probably around 10 cars would've been disqualified
It’s also key to remember that the driver plays a big part in how long the pit stop is; if one driver is consistently getting faster pit stops than the other something the driver is doing is affecting it. Checo usually gets faster pit stops than Max - stopping PERFECTLY placed plays a big part in stop time
If Lewis had a legal ride height, his performance wouldn’t have been as good. Higher ride height is synonymous with less performance. Mercedes didn’t cost him the win.
tbh nobody knows, there is no way to know how much performance was gained from lowering the floor of the W14, and no one will ever know. It might have been enough to pass the McLaren or he probably would have stayed in P4, but no one can claim to know, not even the Merc guys.
@@oliverapex7924 I hope you understand that wear is not only depending on ride height. Also the setup of dampers has a huge impact. And at the end how much do you ride the curbs. Who claimed that the height was the same between Hamilton and Russell?
Not really since their car isn't the most dominant. Merc made plenty of mistakes in the past when they had some pressure. I don't think that Merc ever was great on their strategies, etc. Not horrible, but just in the region of good rather than great. A lot of the times they had to deal with Ferrari. Ferrari makes everyone look operationally like a genius.
No, they haven't. This is a mirage just like last year, as Red Bull stopped serious development of its 2023 car a long time ago. Once again, Mercedes and Ferrari have been suckered into wasting resources for this year.
@@dereksbooks it very likely carries over. mercedes's concept can be further developed using this year and it will give them a better indication over the winter break as to how/where to take their concept.
Hamilton/Merc saving Perez from Hamilton. Lots of points thrown away in Qatar by crashing into Russell and now lots of points thrown away by going with a too low ride height in an attempt to get more performance.
Mercedes need to stop with all the team spirit nonsense and and start hiring people based on merit. There, I said it. It’s holding the team back. Unfortunately a cut throat environment always yields results. I’m sorry but it needs to be said.
Well no, they didn't. He was DSQd for having the ride height too low, so it wouldn't have mattered if he'd crossed the line in P1. And if they'd run the car legally, they would have been too slow. Such a nothing video as usual, there was no way Mercedes could have won that race legally
No he wasn't. There was nothing illegal about the ride height. He was dq'd because the plank wore down to much meaning that the car bottomed out a lot.
I believe Mexico will be interesting, the biggest thing about México is that due to Altitude they all Run Monaco Style wings, and have lower than Monza levels downforce, so it is a track that favours mechanical Grip, we know Red Bull has much better tyre where and that will probably decide it, however in qualifying things might be different.
Some don't understand the rules. The cars were more unsafe than illegal. There is no such thing as having an illegal ride hight. You can go as low or high as you want. The issue is the plank at the bottom of the floor. The rule says that the plank shouldn't have less then 9cm wear. This is a very old rule and put in place for safety reasons. It was after Senna's death that this rule came into affect. So it's more that the cars were ran in an unsafe state then them gaining anything. If more cars were tested, more would have been DQ'd. The cars ran under a lot more stress over the sprints weekend, compared to a normal race weekend. The track is very bumpy as well. That means Merc can run their car exactly the same way next weekend and not have the same wear on the floor. That is why Hamilton and team is actually happy, as this means, once they change rear suspension(anti-squat) next year, they will be able to get the wished aero advantage.
This is interesting. Full race length reverse grid, but what about the points. Hmm. Same point system as normal GP? okay. Then sunday Normal race. Uhh, what if no overtakes happen for all races, then that would make both the pole and bottom sitter the WDC.. Teams might also consider the p10 or p11 in quali to have a safe spot for contention on both races. Maybe a different point system for reverse grid could work.
sir leavis really needs to finally come outta closet to declare himz da frist clay mixer in da formula 1 as well , thus it is requirement to gibz him anotha total
Just omit the sprint. It does not add anything to the sport, it takes away crucial time to have best Sunday race. I think a good Sunday race is what a fan can ask for
Love this channel, Alot of teams could genuinely do alot worse than having a race analysis off you mate when the dust has settled,They might learn a thing or 2
The cars selected are not random in this case: these are the cars with highest probability that they violated the plankrule based on the past races. So they may be the only ones as they were prime suspects for violating this rule. (This is in contrast to some other tests that do apply to random cars: if that would be the case, 50% would be alarming.)
@@10Exahertz Imagine the mercedes fans freaking out again if Verstappen would not have been checked. They selected Hamilton and Leclerc based on expected/projected plank degradation based on the setup and in race speed patterns. These checks normally cost quite a bit of time, so they typically only check the cars that have higher risk of violating the designated parameters. So with Ferrari and Mercedes running a low car setup on a very bumpy track and in addition a sprintrace: they have very high risk of violating this rule. And now my speculations why they didn't do both mercs/ferraris: - It may be that due to time restrictions that they did not check both cars. - Maybe a bit political: disqualifying 4 drivers would be a bad image for the sport - FIA doesn't care too much about the second drivers as they didn't fight for the win - Which cars should be tested could have been fixed before the race on sunday, so the choice would be either 4 or 8 long technical tests.
@@lmr4403 If theyre not checking all of the cars and dont allow teams to appeal its nonsense. Verstappen is fine, its clear RBR raised the ride height OD. But to not check sainz and russell is criminally negligent. Photos show Sainz and Russell with the same amount of sparks under the car, this is ridiculous. I understand if theres a time limit but how long does it really take to measure the plank? If theyre not going to do it for all cars allow an appeal at the very least. Checking for if cars are within the regulations randomly or based off of a 'hunch' is not just.
@@10Exahertz There are every weeks MANY checks either based on suspicion or random checks. In hindsight: yes, definitely they should have checked both mercs and ferraris.
Considering McLaren’s floor was found not excessively worn as the Mercedes and Ferrari, would it not be safe to assume McLaren also raised their ride height so also had their performance compromised? Bear in mind that everyone was pretty much having problems with their brakes so it was not just the Redbull of Max that was compromised…
I still love the fact that mercedes "cheated" to get a second place, but Ferrari managed to "cheat", and STILL only finish 6th... Not only can't Ferrari build a winning car, but even when cheating, they still only get mediocre results! I know this wasn't intentional in all fairness, but the narrative is so much funnier if you assume they did it on purpose, hoping to not be picked out after the race.
FIA doesn't have to change anything lol. This isn't some new track, the teams have years of historical data they plug into their sim to help measure all this... And there wasn't any massive technical overhaul in the rules to effect this.
To be fair if the car wasn’t riding at a illegal ride height anyways they wouldnt have been able to compete. Rb19 at that ride height it destroys the W14 like it has all season
The FIA /stewards have just a limited time period to test the legality of the cars so they check different things on different cars . Plank wear is usually only checked on bumpy tracks and even then not 4 but 1 or 2 but when the stewards expect a lot of wear they check the ones who they think might fail .So they clearly doubted the legality of the Mercedes and Ferrari and to avoid to be called byass they checked also Red Bull and McLaren.
Luckily also Max´s and Lando´s planks also were tested and ride height could seriously hampered them during the race. So I do think Mercedes looked closer than they really are.
@@StevenQ74Not on bumpy tracks. These cars perform best when they have a stable ride height as the floors can’t be mechanically sealed. Running too low on a bumpy track actually negatively impacts car performance.
A engineer generally is cautious. If there is a potential problem a engineer does more to protect than not. A lower car has more grip great for a team with low high end speed like Mercedes.
Aldas come one mate, dont hang on the copium so much. Mercedes being able to ride so low and Red Bull had to ride so high, gave a major performance difference between these two. And still Red Bull won. Merc knew this 100% because after the Sprint they check the wear on the floor. So they just gambled they would not be checked after the race. They cheated, they gambled and they lost. Now dont let the bias come one and youll see the truth
Sorry but your single dimension math is wrong. Yes Mercedes made mistake leaving Lewis 4 more laps out, but then again he had 4 laps younger tires, and for that had big pace advantage in final stages of the race. Hence with older tires he would not have pulled back so much time, and he still would not win. (difference would be preaty much the same). Also, like Brundle said in Sky, Max would go all out in last few laps (because he is interested only in winning, not second places), no matter brakes issues...
The biggest reason wasn't the track or the sprint race. It was the teams wanting to run the car low to get faster times down the straights. Plane and simple Everyone on the grid is trying to catch Redbull. Both those teams chose to go after the high speed part of the track leading them to lower heights.
Remember 18 cars bounced ...porpoise all races last year,where were all the technology, elite engineering and expertise ? Where? In the back room eating Chucky Cheese with Honda money!
Saying he'd shave that much off his time isn't right tho. If he came behind a driver no matter what that extra point something of a second, he'd still be behind that driver, negating a lot of that extra time saved. In other words, not as straight forward as "X seconds saved in race".
Pretty simple, they set the car up too low and wore their planks too much. The car was noticeably faster. Hamilton and Leclerc had nothing to do with it.
Lewis Hamilton needs to leave Mercedes. I can’t believe I’m saying this but it’s becoming apparent. I can’t believe he’s still patient with all of this crap they keep doing same with Charles in my opinion.
Si por lealtad a un equipo no debe dejar qué lo pisoten como le hacen esto es una trampa bien echa pará despretijialo por qué la prensa es lo peor que puede existir y los que opinan no dicen nada de Toto solo Hamilton el debería irse de Mercedes... tiene madera cómo empresario y muchos que lo apoyan dedicarse a su escuela de pilotos o de científicos le iría mucho mejor y no se está ganando un desprestigio...
11 месяцев назад
That's funny... we know for certain that Red Bull and Sauber chose a more "conservative" setup to avoid running afoul of the regulations. Aston Martin and Haas changed their setup in parc fermé and subsequently had to start from the pitlane. But with so much at stake for Mercedes and Ferrari they should be "excused" because they had too little time to diligently ensure that their cars are in compliance? (Remember, Alpine did the "decent thing" when they were facing plank wear issues with their new upgrades after the sprint in Baku... but hey, who gives a sh*t about Alpine, right? This is Sir Lewis we're talking about here.) Maybe introducing upgrades to a sprint weekend, when time is limited, isn't the brightest idea to begin with? Fact of the matter is, Mercedes and Ferrari were deliberately taking a risk to gain an advantage that post-race turned out to be unfair. Surely, the engineers, whose job it is to monitor and check even the minutest details, must have been aware that plan wear could be "problematic", suggesting otherwise would imply gross negligence if not incompetence. It can be argued, they were intentionally taking a "calculated gamble", the chances to get away with illegal plank wear are much greater than one may think. Plank wear is only one of many criteria that CAN be checked, it just so happened that it was "drawn out of the hat" in Austin to be included in the post-race checklist. And in case a team is selected for scrutiny the chances for the "bad egg" to be picked are 50:50. (Wonder why George was "slow AF" in comparison to Sir Lewis in the "same" car?)
if Lewis car was set at the legal height, giving him less underfloor downforce, he would simply have been slower and he probably wouldn't even have finished 2nd. So logic is it.
Tbh imagine if Lewis did win and then got DSQ'd. Would have led to the biggest meltdown on F1 social media since AD21
I can hear RocketPoweredMohawk laughing his arse off now.
If Lewis had a legal ride height, he wouldn’t have the performance to be where he got anyway.
Mercedes didn’t cost him a win, that’s just silly.
Yup
Russells car had the same ride hight, where was he?@@eduardosantana8300
@@oliverapex7924Russell's car wasn't chosen for testing.
Wrong strategy AND bad pitstops, Merc definitely threw it away there
Mercedes seem to be taking a page out of Ferrari's book there
Yeah....
They need to make changes in their strategy team.
2nd this year is still very decent. Hindsight is 20/20. You can predict what may have happened.
Imo Mercedes has never really had an outstanding strategy/ pit crew, they mostly got carried by having a dominant car, with incredible drivers. They just never really showed how mid those aspects were because their car was so fast it didn't matter. This isn't uncommon for them, it's just now they don't have the best car by a mile, their errors cost them far more.
Something you are not considering is that, by running the car illegally low, Mercedes had an advantage over other teams. With a proper setup they might have been slower.
Red Bull has been operating brilliantly for years. That is why max has been able to steal a bunch of wins in the Mercedes dominated years, when their car (and engine, more precisely) wasn’t good enough.
Right, right...cheating (and not getting penalized), getting huge breaks from the Race Director, but hey! That's called "operating brilliantly" by their fanbois.
agreed. people think that max is the reason why RB won some races prior to 2021. that's a huge disservice and disrespect to their aggressive strategies and their ability to capitalize on some mercedes strategical blunders (happened more often than you'd think) combined with the fact that mercedes were traditionally weak at some tracks like monaco and singapore.
@@WebShaman01 I truly realize that hating on Red Bull gives you some sense of superiority and no amount of common sense would convince you to part ways with your moronic convictions but still here I go. Do you hate on Merc for their illegal testing ahead of 2014 regulations?
@@no1washerezz that is also why when RB dominates, they *really* dominates
Merc will get their slow car better
Oooof. Watch 'The Race' video on the topic. Of course Red Bull faces challenges on bumpier tracks, because they make an effort to avoid disqualification. This is also why Mercedes managed to 'close the gap.' Does this take away from Leclerc's stunning qualifying lap? Does it take away from Lewis's best race of the season? Of course, it does. They may bend the rules, but since we can't quantify the advantage gained, it doesn't matter? I'd love to see both of them competing at the front, but Red Bull did a better job and emerged victorious... yet again.
I think we can see how important James Vowles was for the team, the team used to make far less strategic mistakes when he was still a part of the team. And we have also seen a significant improvement in Williams as a whole since Vowles moved there. Losing him was a blow to Merc
I have never made that link, but you are absolutely spot on. Great remark
I've been an inspection engineer for over 10 years and regularly check a sample % of critical steelwork for thickness.
A failure rate of 50% of a sample would definitely prompt an expansion of the test, and there is enough control and expertise in F1 to make every team turn in their planks and wear plates for further testing. This absolutely should still happen now, and everyone (in terms of commentry) should pile the pressure on for them to do this.
Given that this test and rule is about safety and not performance, it's highly comparable to what my tests are and why they are expanded when finding a non conformance; you must test everything to find all of the failing parts to ensure no one is putting dangerous equipment back into use at full operating stress.
If this was one of the tests for proper setup of the wheel nuts, and 2 of 4 cars tested were found to be running loose by the end of the race, that is grounds and proportional to check everyone's regardless of inconvenience.
Nice to see actual competent logic and expertise in a statement. Well said!
This has been done this way for 30 years...never heard complains before and now suddenly it is absurd we don't test all cars.
Why would this be?
@@Ivovifyhow can you be okay with the fact that probably half of the grid cheated in a race and only 2 cars out of 20 were disqualified?
@@diegovillavicencio3172
If there's a higher chance of certain teams running their cars too low (maybe according to pre race inspections), scrutineers can single out teams, which is what probably happened here.
This probably isn't a 50% fail rate, just a 100% fail rate of suspected offenders.
Other plank Wear inspections:
Australian: Zhou and Sainz
Azerbaijan: Russel and Ocon
Silverstone: Leclerc
Hungarian: Russel and Sainz
Italian: Russel and Leclerc
Spanish: Hamilton and Hülkenberg
Singapore: Max and Alonso
Zandvoort: Lando and Hülkenberg
As you can see, it's circuit specific and only a few get picked out each time, at a maximum of 2.
Due to limited practice running on high fuel loads, more teams had a higher risk of running their car too low.
@@Ivovify there's nothing absurd with testing only a % due to practicality, I haven't contested that, but as an engineering principle, if you only run safety tests on samples and do nothing extra when that sample fails, the whole test is flawed and pointless.
You also need to be able to ensure test that there isn't another damage mechanism causing the failure that is outside of the scope of responsibility of the team, and that's revealed if all cars are tested.
In terms of practicality, it's a part that shouldn't be discarded, therefore should be possible to gather all planks and wear plates from every team. Everything will have a unique identifier down to each and every nut and bolt (has to, only way to utilise a cost cap) so just get these from the teams when their trucks land in Mexico
The checks were confirmed not to be random, which makes sense, they monitor the bouncing of the cars and then check the suspicious cars+the ones around
The checks are always random, that's the official rule. It's just that the FIA says random, but most of the time checks the podium sitters and somebody else, which is kinda unfair.
Eyy, you got a stunning profile pic!!
@@gauravmalltarlok5354 They only check point scorer to begin with.
I’ll say this, and this is something I’ve thought even since Hybrid Era. Mercedes bad strategies were masked because of how good their car was, and now that their car isn’t leagues better than everyone else, those poor strategies and bad decision making is being exposed a lot more.
Yeah, even in 2020 with the Mercedes W13, Max only got wins at Silverstone and Abu Dhabi, but he had strategy to thank for those.
yeah and red bull are alot stronger strategy wise as well. they probably have the best strategists on the grid just look how often red bull picked up a win here and there even though merc was miles ahead is crazy now the tables have turned and merc is litteraly nowhere other than that single win george got last year
@@scsutton1wasn't 2020 W11?
Yeah.. Imagine having better strategies with a faster car. Craaaazyyyyyyy
When you are faster you have more strategic options, I see a lot of Criticism of Ferrari, and they deserve it, but there are also Races where they are criticised and if you go and look at the Data, they simply were not fast enough(example 2022 Hungarian GP), and if you are gaining 1 second a lap to all the other(yes that is Red Bull's margin in long runs this season) even qualification is meaningless, many Races this season I am sure if Verstappen started 20th he would have still won. The Abu Dhabi GP 2021 is another example, Mercedes did not mess up strategy, it was fair of them to assume the Race wasnt restarting, and had FIA followed its procedures and not screw other drivers(those who did not get to unlap behind Max) they would have ended in a Safety car and I am sure, had Lewis stopped, Verstappen would not and Gain track position, because we all saw Verstappen was not going to win that race on pace that is for sure.
I think something you failed to realize is that perhaps sir hamilton and leclerc were only this quick due to lowering their ride height which gave them a edge over norris and officer Verstappen who were running with a higher ride height to protect the plank with as a result less grip
This...somehow it seems people tend to forget this.
Not really, the performance gained would be under a tenth, if any was gained at all. The ride height wasn't illegal, it was the plank wear. Mercedes will run the same low ride height in Mexico cause there they don't have to fear for too much wear.
thats speculation at best.
@@gauravmalltarlok5354but red bull will run lower height also in Mexico. No chance for others
@gauravmalltarlok5354 do you even know what plank wear means and why it happens? 😂
I don't think Mercedes spoiled Hamilton's victory. The truth is that if he hadn't been racing with such a low car, he probably wouldn't have even been in the fight for the race. Running the car that low will improve at least a couple of tenths in a lap, which means a gain of several seconds on a race with 60 laps. That's why i dont think lewis would be in the fight with a legal ride height. Runnning the car lower brings huge gains in performance, especially at a track with an entire sector comprised of fast corners, like it is the case at austin.
Especially looking at the performance differences between Hamilton and Russell
Their performance usually weren't that far, and in COTA, it shows that they had significant performance differences (though you could say that car #63 might haven't been updated yet)
Mate, how can you say all these things while having no informations about it.
Lets stop thinking we know everything in the sport we don't know if they gained an advantage or not
@@hectornecromancer5308no Lewis always destroyed his teammates in COTA
@@alexlacl8730 indeed, but not with RB19's kind of performance (when the RB19 itself weren't as fast as they usually perform here) compared to Russell's more reasonable pace
@@alexlacl8730 Because we know the Merc performs poorly with higher setups. How convenient that the ONE race they have proper pace is the ONE race they end up being disqualified for licking the road too much.
I mean it can be argued that Lewis did have an advantage by having his car set up to run too low. Idk, I dont kbow what's up with Mercedes recently I mean they were never the perfectly oiled machine thst Red Bull is now, I guess thats how you can kinda see them getting exposed operationally. What they could have gotten away with before when they were dominant, they cant get away with now.
Most of the Mercedes competence was bought out by RBR. And it shows.
Its 100% the ride height giving him speed. Both RB and McLaren ran their cars much higher because of the bumpiness of the track.
@@KoeiNL We need to wait until Mexico to see that, so nothing is 100% certain really.
@@KoeiNLBased on the information we have its possible the ride height wasn't the main factor to the pace, Lewis always performs well on this track, the upgraded floor for the car hopefully helped too, and Red Bull were slower than usual because of the surface.
Its easy to blame it on ride height and its easy to discredit Lewis, but Charles didn't seem to have more pace. I guess we'll see for sure in Mexico and Brazil 👀
Yeah, Merc has always been very weak operationally. But the performance gain from running the car lower apparently gained him well under a tenth per lap, so probably didn't make a difference on race pace.
I mean they cost him a win by giving him an illegal car in the first place.
They didn't give him and illegal car. The setup was perfectly legal, but inappropriate for this track,
@@dansegelov305true, but it was just dumb to not build in room for margine..
Well, of course. They cost him P2 at that
@@dansegelov305lol thats a illegal setup
@@mikevonspeed4396 . No it isn't. It's like if they had a wear limit rule for tyres. You could 'over-wear' them, buy they wouldn't have been illegal when you put them on!
The car set up with a fairly low ride-height, but within the rules, so it was perfectly legal at the start of the race. But the COTA track is really bumpy and the kerbs are high, so the car bottomed out a lot more than expected, wearing the plank down.
At 9 out of 10 tracks on the calendar there would not have been any problem at all. The car would be set up just the same and the plank wouldn't wear as much.
If F1 is going to continue with the sprint format, they should factor in how the teams can prevent this from happening. If we’re being honest, the sprints are mainly to make the sport more money but if it is negatively impacting the race result, they should reconsider or make amendments
Every other team seems to have done okay.
Really it’s just Ferrari and Merc with Red Bull envy. They’ll do whatever to try to win when they know Max is starting in 6th. Parc ferme sure, but they cheated. Norris’ and Verstappen car were both checked and had nothing like Leclerc and Hamilton. If anything Norris would’ve raced harder than those guys because he’s never won before
@@eduardosantana83002 out of the 4 teams tested failed
@@eduardosantana8300 Because only 4 cars got tested
F1 Should, but will they?
They should check ALL cars, not just 4 out of 20. Who knows, there MAY have been like 10 cars that should've been disqualified but they all got to keep their points because they weren't checked. It's just wrong on so many levels. Hell, some of them even got more points because the people in front of them lost theirs. Imagine how a championship might be decided (in a non-dominant year) just because the FIA decided to check some cars and not others. This is beyond dumb.
I dont get how this is the only comment I see about this so far, this is a massive issue. If you're not going to do it for all of them then dont do it at all. Theres just so many holes with this 'sampling' method.
For one, a team like Williams or heck even Ferrari can take a massive risk and put an illegal part in there and just hope theyre not randomly selected for that part check.
Then you have this race, who knows how many cars were illegal, maybe if 14/20 were illegal the FIA would have to rethink any disqualification bc it would be clear the sprint race + track made the rules a bit difficult to comply with.
But no, the FIA choses only 4 cars, its mind numbing honestly.
I wonder if Mercedes or Ferrari can appeal, if not, its even more stuffed.
And when they did. It turns out only both of them ran illegally low
Well Merc likes to run their car lower than they should in the ground effect era. Just look last year when they had been willing to give their drivers extreme purpoising for a bit more performance.
At the cost of Lewis' spine
“Only RB could have won” more like only Max could have one.
My understanding was that all cars were visually inspected & only 4 looked problematic, that's why Charles car was tested. It could explain the outright performance difference between Charles & Carlos & Lewis & George. In 1994 when Schumacher was disqualified, Hill (the eventual race winner) stated that Williams raised his ride height for that reason & it cost between 0.1 & 0.2 seconds a lap. So the Mercedes could have had a big performance advantage due to ride height. We will see in Mexico.
I think for me, it also speaks to just how impressive Max has been, to clutch a win, despite having break issues and just how strong the car is, that even with handicaps and other cars running below the legal limit.
How do you bring max into this, his breaks were fine. He just made excuses because Hamilton was nearing him.
@@joshn1678average lh fan
@@joshn1678average DTS fan
@@joshn1678alleging someone lying while their driver got caught cheating red-handed 🤣
@@kyrie6910 average max bandwagon gloryhunter"fan"
I'm glad max's car was one of the ones that got tested because if not and lewis gets dsq, imagine the crying from hamilton fans
Exactly
It probably was illegal but fia made an exception because its RB. Remember in 2021 when they allowed red bull to make rear wing adjustments during qualifying.
@@andrewmelton2686whatever you say mate 🤷
Hamilton keeps living rent free...
@@daveruda Keep telling yourself that lie
Yeah the merc was great last week but lets not forget Max was nursing a braking issue throughout the race and would have probably won by 20 seconds if it weren't for that. We can play this game of 'what if' for so many races.
I doubt Lewis was unaware of what is happening to his car. Fact more cars aren't checked for this is an eye opener. Could mean maybe they were gambling it wouldn't be checked this time.
They didn't cost him a win. With the ride height raised he wouldn't have had the pace even with a perfect strategy and execution.
Actually, from all the sources I've heard, the performance gain from the ride height was marginal at best. We're talking significantly under a tenth per lap
In the Sprint Max ended wit a gap of 9.4 seconds without break issues so in the main race one could argue that without those issues, he could have ended with at least 9.4 second advantage ... so really at the end Merc being so near RB in this race more a mirage
Let them dream lol, Ham got close! We are getting better, yet Max was having breaking issues and he start from 6th lol.
You should understand tyre saving... when they know they can't fight the car ahead the settle into a pace.... to merely look at the gaps is silly. During the sprint Leclerc and Hamilton just ran a pace to protect thier tyres as the deg wasn't understood with limited running, but why would you consider that..... Typical Max nut swinger oblivious to what is actually happening.
Well, starting a half-hour sprint with 70kg less fuel in board is a very different beast. Max's brake issues only became apparent much later in the race.
And "being so near to RB" in an illegal car isn't a mirage, it's cheating. ;)
Even with the DQ, watching Lewis try his damnest for the win put a huge smile on my face. He’s still P2 in my heart.
Official result is what matter, not your what your heart feels
@@BlueCollar80dude is allowed to feel happy for his driver. Go get a life
A$$@@BlueCollar80
I'm a Lewis fan, but best not to speak your heart in the comments where haters lurk and troll all day
I'm gonna hibernate till Sunday
😂
#trollsincoming
@@emc5890 well he can, but it still dont change the fact that Lewis dont deserve that P2 and someone need to remind him of that.
Im surprised that neither of those cars you showed in the beginning had any paint on the planks, In sports car racing that is standard practice, either spray paint or cross hatch marks. After each session you can check the planks and see how/where it is being worn out and adjust RH or dampers accordingly. My team was fortunate enough to be in P2 when the winner was DSQ this year at Watkins 6hr.
Please no don't remind me of the skidblock saga, being a Porsche fan this year has been frustrating enough, especially after Petit Le Mans.
@@Xiphactinus Petit was quite a shame overall in GTP imo
@@spartantv6268 if the high class took out the 7 as well as the 6, I'd have stopped watching on the spot. Comiserations to WTR, their Petit Le Mans curse is absurd.
You contracting yourself in the video. On one hand you say that ride hide isn't effecting as much, the other hand Red Bull is bad when they need to change their ride hide... I saw a photo of Verstappen righthide over the curbs next to LH and leclerc and it was a big difference. They both sparked where max his car I felt I could put my hand between. Bottas also noticed that it was a bad weekend for them but if they needed to change their ride hight it would have hurt them even more.
Don't underestimate the ride height, but we will see next couple of races.
If the car wasnt ran that low, he would have lost pace. Maybe just a sec, maybe losing 5 places.
There was a substantial performance advantage by running the car too low.
Therefore the DQ's were justified.
Ironically this rule was imposed because of the porpoising antics that were instigated by Mercedes.
And about the what could have been ........ like AD2021, he should have pitted (earlier).
I'm guessing you're new to this sport?
First, the performance advantage is not substantial. It's only worth about 1 to 2 seconds over the entire race, not each lap.
Second, that plank rule was not Mercedes doing, it has been around since 1994 following the accident that killed Ayrton Senna. You must be talking about the floor edge being raised, now that was Mercedes.
And why bring up AD2021? Insecure much? 😂 human error...
@@ReyG316Lewis should have pitted in Abu Dhabi. Stop crying.
@@quigglyz Human error champ 🤣
LH should have pitted (sooner), than he had a better chance of winning (like AD2021)
Merc strategy blundered again.
Anyway Merc gambled and lost
iconic how the lower floor helped his performance this race and merc + him complained for days to raise the ride height since he was faking backache.
It’s quite hypothetical. We don’t know how Mercedes would have fared against McLaren, let alone Red Bull, if they raised the ride height to safe levels - similar to the cars that passed the test, namely Red Bull and McLaren.
I mean George got beaten by the Ferraris. So the car didn’t work for him; at the same time he didn’t get dsq. Maybe he ran a more conservative setup, and that’s the performance Mercs get out of that car at safe ride height? We don’t know for sure without any proof.
Well, we may find out in Mexico.
Russell was not tested (neither Carlos), so you do know nothing.
@@rensvanderploeg1945 That’s what I also meant. My comment is as speculative as this video.
Yeah, I agree, all we can say is that Mexico will actually tell us about the real performance. Good thing though it isn't far away.
What? Of course Georges car didn't fail the test. His car wasn't even tested.
Only 4 cars were tested (Max, Lewis, Lando and Charles), and out of those, 2 failed. That's 50%, so if every car was tested, probably around 10 cars would've been disqualified
It’s also key to remember that the driver plays a big part in how long the pit stop is; if one driver is consistently getting faster pit stops than the other something the driver is doing is affecting it. Checo usually gets faster pit stops than Max - stopping PERFECTLY placed plays a big part in stop time
Yeah true. But over the season on average, I think Ham and Rus has had fairly similar stop times. Both equally bad
I mean,come on.. There should be something Checo can do better than Max..
Maybe the FIA should consider getting rid of sprint races 💀
If the car was on the legal height , lewis wouldnt have been as fast as he was.
Lewis mentioned that he stopped off the mark in his pitstop, so id say the Russel times might be more representative
I thought it was a team. Lewis is always so proud on the team. Why split now?
I’m tired of Mercedes I swear to god
5 years domination (except 2017 - 2018) but still win
(Correct me if I'm wrong)
I can’t stand Red Bull.
@@oliverapex7924I can’t stand you
I swear down on me nan's grave
Try being a Ferrari fan…..🥲
They do NOT pick random cars. They chose Hamilton, Leclerc, Max, and Lando.
random is random. stop crying
@@adamkeller4724random just means anyone can get chosen, idk why no one is saying that, it's not just chosen out of a hat
FIA can choose random and also specific cars
If Lewis had a legal ride height, his performance wouldn’t have been as good. Higher ride height is synonymous with less performance. Mercedes didn’t cost him the win.
Neither did he himself
@@HMSVanguard46 nope. He never had a chance in his current car to begin with.
Russell had exact same ride hight!
tbh nobody knows, there is no way to know how much performance was gained from lowering the floor of the W14, and no one will ever know. It might have been enough to pass the McLaren or he probably would have stayed in P4, but no one can claim to know, not even the Merc guys.
@@oliverapex7924 I hope you understand that wear is not only depending on ride height. Also the setup of dampers has a huge impact. And at the end how much do you ride the curbs. Who claimed that the height was the same between Hamilton and Russell?
Mercedes have really stepped their game down since having a midfield car for the last years
Hamilton needs to consider moving to McLaren.
Not really since their car isn't the most dominant. Merc made plenty of mistakes in the past when they had some pressure. I don't think that Merc ever was great on their strategies, etc. Not horrible, but just in the region of good rather than great. A lot of the times they had to deal with Ferrari. Ferrari makes everyone look operationally like a genius.
No, they haven't. This is a mirage just like last year, as Red Bull stopped serious development of its 2023 car a long time ago. Once again, Mercedes and Ferrari have been suckered into wasting resources for this year.
@@dereksbooks it very likely carries over. mercedes's concept can be further developed using this year and it will give them a better indication over the winter break as to how/where to take their concept.
Yeah, and Lulu is washed up.
Hamilton Knew his car setup and said lets go for it. He is not innocent
Team superiority is saving Perez against Sir Lewis.
Hamilton/Merc saving Perez from Hamilton. Lots of points thrown away in Qatar by crashing into Russell and now lots of points thrown away by going with a too low ride height in an attempt to get more performance.
“Sir” 😂
@@quigglyz He is a Sir. Just a fact.
Surprised the Ferrari is so far up in the Pit Stop Championship
Actually pitstop Is the only good thing Vasseur has done today
Meanwhile leclerc who start on pole to DSQ -_-
The photos shown on Reddit clearly show that Ferrari was a little too low but Mercedes was another tier beyond Ferrari. Easily 10mm too low.
Mercedes need to stop with all the team spirit nonsense and and start hiring people based on merit. There, I said it. It’s holding the team back.
Unfortunately a cut throat environment always yields results. I’m sorry but it needs to be said.
You can't hire what is already being employed by RBR.
"Random cars" picks the podium and pole sitter hmmmm
Lesson = don't bring upgrades on Sprint weekends
A cheater is a cheater regardless of the excuses you want to find to say otherwise.
I agree. With the exemption of Singapore, if Max wasn't dominating, Checo won - same pit stop crew, strategy (or pure luck), same car, same team.
Ferrari: s🅱️inalla
Merc: let's emulate that
Well no, they didn't. He was DSQd for having the ride height too low, so it wouldn't have mattered if he'd crossed the line in P1. And if they'd run the car legally, they would have been too slow. Such a nothing video as usual, there was no way Mercedes could have won that race legally
💯
No he wasn't. There was nothing illegal about the ride height.
He was dq'd because the plank wore down to much meaning that the car bottomed out a lot.
@@dansegelov305it still increased the performance of the car , because it got lowered
Such an advantage Leclerc was racing for the Win 😂
I believe Mexico will be interesting, the biggest thing about México is that due to Altitude they all Run Monaco Style wings, and have lower than Monza levels downforce, so it is a track that favours mechanical Grip, we know Red Bull has much better tyre where and that will probably decide it, however in qualifying things might be different.
Looks like fumbling the pit strategy isnt just a Ferrari thing anymore.
People feeling sad for Hamilton meanwhile ferrari, Charles and fans : just another ferrari weekend 😂
Some don't understand the rules. The cars were more unsafe than illegal. There is no such thing as having an illegal ride hight. You can go as low or high as you want.
The issue is the plank at the bottom of the floor. The rule says that the plank shouldn't have less then 9cm wear. This is a very old rule and put in place for safety reasons. It was after Senna's death that this rule came into affect. So it's more that the cars were ran in an unsafe state then them gaining anything.
If more cars were tested, more would have been DQ'd. The cars ran under a lot more stress over the sprints weekend, compared to a normal race weekend. The track is very bumpy as well.
That means Merc can run their car exactly the same way next weekend and not have the same wear on the floor. That is why Hamilton and team is actually happy, as this means, once they change rear suspension(anti-squat) next year, they will be able to get the wished aero advantage.
If one car fails, then they all should get tested.
Im convinced the Mercedes pit crew do this on purpose to Hamilton so they can help Russell 😂
Hi great video i know it's a very common type of videos but i'd love to see what if video, like what if senna survived and what same for clark
friday 2x practice. quali sat, reverse grid sprint, normal grid gp. this would deffo spread some points better for next seasons and more prac time
That would work along with those practices maybe being 1 hour and 30 minutes each
This is interesting. Full race length reverse grid, but what about the points. Hmm. Same point system as normal GP? okay. Then sunday Normal race. Uhh, what if no overtakes happen for all races, then that would make both the pole and bottom sitter the WDC.. Teams might also consider the p10 or p11 in quali to have a safe spot for contention on both races. Maybe a different point system for reverse grid could work.
sir leavis really needs to finally come outta closet to declare himz da frist clay mixer in da formula 1 as well , thus it is requirement to gibz him anotha total
It’s amazing That the main thing that is killing formula one is formula one itself
Just omit the sprint. It does not add anything to the sport, it takes away crucial time to have best Sunday race.
I think a good Sunday race is what a fan can ask for
Don't know, if the ride heigth was correct, the car would have been slower. So no dsq but also less chance to win.
their low ride height probably made their car faster regardless
Love this channel, Alot of teams could genuinely do alot worse than having a race analysis off you mate when the dust has settled,They might learn a thing or 2
The cars selected are not random in this case: these are the cars with highest probability that they violated the plankrule based on the past races. So they may be the only ones as they were prime suspects for violating this rule.
(This is in contrast to some other tests that do apply to random cars: if that would be the case, 50% would be alarming.)
then why werent the four cars checked all Merc and Ferrari???
@@10Exahertz Imagine the mercedes fans freaking out again if Verstappen would not have been checked.
They selected Hamilton and Leclerc based on expected/projected plank degradation based on the setup and in race speed patterns.
These checks normally cost quite a bit of time, so they typically only check the cars that have higher risk of violating the designated parameters. So with Ferrari and Mercedes running a low car setup on a very bumpy track and in addition a sprintrace: they have very high risk of violating this rule.
And now my speculations why they didn't do both mercs/ferraris:
- It may be that due to time restrictions that they did not check both cars.
- Maybe a bit political: disqualifying 4 drivers would be a bad image for the sport
- FIA doesn't care too much about the second drivers as they didn't fight for the win
- Which cars should be tested could have been fixed before the race on sunday, so the choice would be either 4 or 8 long technical tests.
@@lmr4403 If theyre not checking all of the cars and dont allow teams to appeal its nonsense. Verstappen is fine, its clear RBR raised the ride height OD. But to not check sainz and russell is criminally negligent. Photos show Sainz and Russell with the same amount of sparks under the car, this is ridiculous.
I understand if theres a time limit but how long does it really take to measure the plank? If theyre not going to do it for all cars allow an appeal at the very least.
Checking for if cars are within the regulations randomly or based off of a 'hunch' is not just.
@@10Exahertz There are every weeks MANY checks either based on suspicion or random checks. In hindsight: yes, definitely they should have checked both mercs and ferraris.
Lets not forget if the set the right hight properly, they would have been slower and he properly would not have been on the podium
Sprint race was illegal as well just like Leclerc. Karma Wolf wanted to raise ride height!
Both Merc and SF admitted they got the setup wrong. No excuses, they failed. I'm sure others would too if checked tbh. Max and Lando were good.
What happened to "my team doesn't make mistakes"?
The lower the car the faster it goes it’s simple , just look at Russell’s car that will give you a true race pace
That's why Max Verstappen is not in love with the sprint format...
Considering McLaren’s floor was found not excessively worn as the Mercedes and Ferrari, would it not be safe to assume McLaren also raised their ride height so also had their performance compromised? Bear in mind that everyone was pretty much having problems with their brakes so it was not just the Redbull of Max that was compromised…
I still love the fact that mercedes "cheated" to get a second place, but Ferrari managed to "cheat", and STILL only finish 6th...
Not only can't Ferrari build a winning car, but even when cheating, they still only get mediocre results!
I know this wasn't intentional in all fairness, but the narrative is so much funnier if you assume they did it on purpose, hoping to not be picked out after the race.
FIA doesn't have to change anything lol.
This isn't some new track, the teams have years of historical data they plug into their sim to help measure all this... And there wasn't any massive technical overhaul in the rules to effect this.
To be fair if the car wasn’t riding at a illegal ride height anyways they wouldnt have been able to compete. Rb19 at that ride height it destroys the W14 like it has all season
The FIA /stewards have just a limited time period to test the legality of the cars so they check different things on different cars . Plank wear is usually only checked on bumpy tracks and even then not 4 but 1 or 2 but when the stewards expect a lot of wear they check the ones who they think might fail .So they clearly doubted the legality of the Mercedes and Ferrari and to avoid to be called byass they checked also Red Bull and McLaren.
I don't undertand Toto's comment about not needing to be world champs in pitstops 🤦♂
Surely with a 50/50 fail rate at thar point all cars should be checked.
Luckily also Max´s and Lando´s planks also were tested and ride height could seriously hampered them during the race. So I do think Mercedes looked closer than they really are.
I seriously doubt that this had any real impact on the pace. Sainz and Russell would both also have failed their tests.
Lando bottled an easy lead after the start
Max has a brake issues but he can handle it
@@dereksbooks Running the car lower always has an impact, it makes the car faster, especialy with ground effect cars
@@yudhabagaskara98 wdym he was leading. and theres no way u think that mclaren couldve ever beat the merc or redbull.
@@StevenQ74Not on bumpy tracks. These cars perform best when they have a stable ride height as the floors can’t be mechanically sealed.
Running too low on a bumpy track actually negatively impacts car performance.
A engineer generally is cautious. If there is a potential problem a engineer does more to protect than not. A lower car has more grip great for a team with low high end speed like Mercedes.
Mercedes pitstops are really slow compared to the other top tier teams
“Face value” is that Hamilton and Leclerc were disqualified.
And next Video: How Mercedes gave Hamilton like 80 wins
Aldas come one mate, dont hang on the copium so much. Mercedes being able to ride so low and Red Bull had to ride so high, gave a major performance difference between these two. And still Red Bull won. Merc knew this 100% because after the Sprint they check the wear on the floor. So they just gambled they would not be checked after the race. They cheated, they gambled and they lost. Now dont let the bias come one and youll see the truth
Sorry but your single dimension math is wrong. Yes Mercedes made mistake leaving Lewis 4 more laps out, but then again he had 4 laps younger tires, and for that had big pace advantage in final stages of the race. Hence with older tires he would not have pulled back so much time, and he still would not win. (difference would be preaty much the same). Also, like Brundle said in Sky, Max would go all out in last few laps (because he is interested only in winning, not second places), no matter brakes issues...
Illegal car is illegal brother.
Does anyone notice that LANDO NEVER battles MADMAX for position even if its for P1🤔🤔 but he'll scrap like crazy to keep SLH behind him🤔🤔🤔🤨🤨
The biggest reason wasn't the track or the sprint race. It was the teams wanting to run the car low to get faster times down the straights. Plane and simple Everyone on the grid is trying to catch Redbull. Both those teams chose to go after the high speed part of the track leading them to lower heights.
Remember 18 cars bounced ...porpoise all races last year,where were all the technology, elite engineering and expertise ? Where? In the back room eating Chucky Cheese with Honda money!
They should check every car, to be fair. And you may get half the grid disqualified..😅
Spoiler alert- by running an illegal car
Saying he'd shave that much off his time isn't right tho. If he came behind a driver no matter what that extra point something of a second, he'd still be behind that driver, negating a lot of that extra time saved. In other words, not as straight forward as "X seconds saved in race".
They win and lose as a team
Pretty simple, they set the car up too low and wore their planks too much. The car was noticeably faster. Hamilton and Leclerc had nothing to do with it.
and there teamates?
Lewis Hamilton needs to leave Mercedes. I can’t believe I’m saying this but it’s becoming apparent. I can’t believe he’s still patient with all of this crap they keep doing same with Charles in my opinion.
It’s either that or they have to be a bit more mean to their teams. They need to call them out and they need to stop being so nice
Si por lealtad a un equipo no debe dejar qué lo pisoten como le hacen esto es una trampa bien echa pará despretijialo por qué la prensa es lo peor que puede existir y los que opinan no dicen nada de Toto solo Hamilton el debería irse de Mercedes... tiene madera cómo empresario y muchos que lo apoyan dedicarse a su escuela de pilotos o de científicos le iría mucho mejor y no se está ganando un desprestigio...
That's funny... we know for certain that Red Bull and Sauber chose a more "conservative" setup to avoid running afoul of the regulations. Aston Martin and Haas changed their setup in parc fermé and subsequently had to start from the pitlane. But with so much at stake for Mercedes and Ferrari they should be "excused" because they had too little time to diligently ensure that their cars are in compliance? (Remember, Alpine did the "decent thing" when they were facing plank wear issues with their new upgrades after the sprint in Baku... but hey, who gives a sh*t about Alpine, right? This is Sir Lewis we're talking about here.)
Maybe introducing upgrades to a sprint weekend, when time is limited, isn't the brightest idea to begin with? Fact of the matter is, Mercedes and Ferrari were deliberately taking a risk to gain an advantage that post-race turned out to be unfair. Surely, the engineers, whose job it is to monitor and check even the minutest details, must have been aware that plan wear could be "problematic", suggesting otherwise would imply gross negligence if not incompetence.
It can be argued, they were intentionally taking a "calculated gamble", the chances to get away with illegal plank wear are much greater than one may think. Plank wear is only one of many criteria that CAN be checked, it just so happened that it was "drawn out of the hat" in Austin to be included in the post-race checklist. And in case a team is selected for scrutiny the chances for the "bad egg" to be picked are 50:50. (Wonder why George was "slow AF" in comparison to Sir Lewis in the "same" car?)
if Lewis car was set at the legal height, giving him less underfloor downforce, he would simply have been slower and he probably wouldn't even have finished 2nd. So logic is it.