"The real contradiction - is people want more and more service, more cops on the deed, smaller classrooms for their kids (!), better highways - and then when it comes to paying for it, to hell with it!" 54 years and this still holds water so much it hurts.
@Qimodis taxpayers do. And as somebody who is in a lower tax bracket, I think the system we have for how we tax people according to their wealth works for us in the lower income brackets right now. Then there is businesses, which is where the vast majority of tax revenue comes from.
The problem is that taxpayers already pay sooooo much in taxes. Every tax payer, whether rich or middle class, they collectively pay so much. Government wastes the taxes on things that aren't worth it, they pay for things that shouldn't cost as much. Have you heard of the 150$ hammer?
@@rameynoodles152 TLDR: tax raises on rich (not middle, not low) class people might do some good, but that money must be spent wisely. And that money could also come from parts of the gov't that are _flowing_ with money. I guarantee there are obscene amounts of money held by the top 1% (even though it's admittedly not the same group of people at the top 1%, the principle of wealth inequality remains the same). CEOS of companies, banks, and filthy rich investors who fck everyone below them get bailouts from the government or other rich people while that money could be used for literally anything else. Think "too big to fail", and the Gamestop hedge- fund short- stockers who lost all their money on failed investments & then continued to invest the same exact way. It _does_ matter how the govt's money is used, and that money overwhelmingly goes to subsidies for things Americans don't want (corn syrup), the military industrial complex, or bailouts. While the education system, for example, is infamous for getting obscene amounts of money (and should, in my opinion, get more), the fact of the matter is that money is only as useful as what you spend it on. iPads and laptops to "be modern" and unnecessary renovations are wastes of money, but there are other wastes that are more subtle. For example, the inclusion of English Language learners (and kids who are REALLY behind) in the same classes as everybody else. It "saves" money, but at the cost of _everyone's education_ (yes, including their own). Having different categories of education wouldn't increase the number of classes, really. But it isn't done in many schools because reasons.
I'm just mesmerized by the amount of passion you hear in everyone's voices when they debate with one another, making sure to get their opinions across. And then for the listeners to not only agree or disagree, but to state their own reason on why they do or don't. It's something I don't see much of nowadays since most people I've encountered with are either soft spoken, making sure not to step on any toes or when they do have an opinion on something, they get angry if you don't agree with them which just leads to useless name calling or violence. Long story short, this documentary was just a breath of fresh air. That little statement at 15:31 was my favorite part from that meeting.
Elombe Kisala logic of adults arguing for the sake of resolution, not to be correct. These folks are open minded, earnest, and good listeners and talkers. It’s incredible to see this
This guy really gets it. When he talks about the broader issues and political struggle as opposed to just narrow bread and butter for members, that’s exactly what we need to think about today in rebuilding labor power and fixing American politics.
"YOU'RE not a professional" makes me so angry, that attitude is why they have to be at that table! "A civil servant who took an exam" is most certainly a professional. amazing the disdain people can have for the working class
It's only true. You can't possibly know more than someone who is experienced in the field. Should a nurse who works in a clinic be put up against a doctor who has years and years of research studies and has treat patients more than you do any good to the society at all?
@@SwordsmanRyan This is the question -- does a certificate make one a "pro?" Or are "pro" credentials only for a University degree holder -- or perhaps a college-level Associate degree??
@@MR-nl8xrYou gotta stop being this naive, and admit that power balance isn't the same! 3 people in the US have more money than 50% of the population! So your proposal is just corporate propaganda, punching down! The workers productivity increased, and without the workers the billionaires won't exist! So when workers bargain for better wages and benefits, you as a working class man (I assume) have to stand in solidarity, instead of acting like a temporarily embarassed billionaire! ALL the media is doing is to divide us so we re easily conquered! The billionaires would have us work for slavery wages and conditions if they can get away with it, so know which side you re on! This cucked libertarian working class perspective is disconnected from reality, naïve and hilarious! Wake up
Thank you Elmo. I have enough clips and stories I want to tell to take a lifetime but unfortunately, I don't have a lifetime left to tell them. But I'll keep plugging away at it. David Hoffman
@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker you have one of the best channels on RUclips. It is so amazing to see people just as they were in the times that pop-culture and history have romanticized. It's always weird to see these films and realize that a lot of these people are no longer with us; but we have a unique opportunity to peak into times past and see what life was really like for them. Thank you so much for your hard work and for giving us the opportunity to experience history with you.
David Hoffman, I hope you know that as a Professional Industrial Officer for a Union in Sydney, Australia, on the other side of the world, 56 years after this was recorded; I took notes. Thank you for capturing this slice of social history. I'll be using it in negotiations next week.
Seriously one of the most interesting films I've watched about the labor movement and maybe my favorite short documentary. Strong characters, meaningful scenes, and a powerful message about the ideas that uphold the labor movement. Fantastic work, especially for the time!
funny hearing people talk like that in nyc. i mean the accent is still there in the newer generations like me but its different. sounds like my grandparents
Hello Mr. David! I am the younger generation from Russia. I like your Videos! They have much history and present episodes. It is interesting to compare how the two great countries have evolved. Now it can be seen. Thanks you, what we can to seeing it!
The negotiations from 11.08 are something special. I admire and salute their passion and darn frankness which is missing today, I will infact take a leaf from their book!
My grandfather is the man in the dark jacket sitting to the left of the man in the white collard shirt with dark tie, he smokes a cigar at one point. Louis A. Addesso . RIP
This is such a funny thing to compare how things worked then to now having a brother in DC37 and a father who was a long time member who knows the ins an outs, like the fact that commissioners STILL HAVE PERSONAL DRIVERS.
This is definitely later than 1965. Lindsay didn't become mayor until January 1966. At 13:00, one of the negotiators shouts, "I had a court case back in '66." Victor Gotbaum's muttonchops are definitely post-1970. And look at the hair on the male assistant to the left of Herb Haber. You wouldn't have seen that in '65. Seems more like 1972 or '73.
@@Gabriel-br4qe At 9:22, the city's labor-relations negotiator, Herb Haber (with an assistant to his left who would definitely not have gotten a job with the city wearing his hair like that in 1967 ;), says, "under the freeze, we are limited in the amount of money we can spend". He's talking about Mayor John Lindsay's freeze of city-employee salaries, which was enacted on Aug 16, 1971: tinyurl.com/ydx7e6ny Lindsay left office at the end of 1973. So the footage had to have been shot sometime between August 1971 and December 1973.
10:45 "Make a man whole, and you make a better society. ". Boom. The answers have always existed. But there is too much money to be made from broken men.
Great interviews, fascinating footage, captivating interactions, awesome editing. Good on you for having the foresight to film this when you did, and thanks for putting it up!
I'm impressed at how this is 1965 and yet, regardless of the racial makeup of the class in the beginning of the video, everyone got along and worked together. That is beautiful.
Well, at the very least every one was able to have hard, confronting, & heated conversations without any physical lines being crossed or anyone acting like they just got murdered because of it.
Wow, these guys make me proud to be union, but sad at how low we have devolved since then. This is academy award-Pulitzer prize winning material. Great work Mr. Hoffman!
The recorder was a Nagra II - famous at the time for its quality. The tape at 15" per second. Also high-quality. And we used a boom with a Sennheiser mic. David Hoffman-filmmaker
@@patrickmorrissey3084 I know a member of that union! Have you checked with your president or gone to a meeting lately? If you're sincerely interested, you could look into getting sent to a training. If not through the MMP, possibly through the AFL-CIO. Or potentially the Jobs with Justice leadership training (which is a broader organizing training, but very applicable to the workplace). Check with your president. If leadership appears to be asleep at the wheel in your local, I'm sure folks at the International would be glad to hear from you.
The amazing thing to me about your footage is for just about every thing I see in the news, there is footage you have from decades ago that is similar. Except for maybe the clip you have about people being introduced to computers. Makes me wonder if the tech boom distracted us from staying on top of our problems which are resurfacing today.
@@prun8893 No, the problem is the wealthy who don't want to pay their fair share of taxes, and the politicians who raise taxes on the less affluent so they can give their rich cronies tax cuts and other economic relief. The working classes bear the burden and the fat cats just get fatter.
@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker must've been a transitional period, with lindsay just coming into office. gotbaum also mentions ed hamilton, who would've been managing the budget. i was just a kid, but i always associate lindsay with a particularly turbulent period in nyc industrial relations.
David Hoffman: thank you. This is amazing. I saw your comment and wonder if you can donate all your film somewhere so they can publish everything one day across their multiple lifetimes. Thank you sir, be well
Did Adam Curtis use some of your footage in Hypernormalization? Guy speaking for most of the film has a memorable appearance in Curtis's doc talking about finance guys making thousands of dollars on one transaction ("the slobs!")
Mathew. The sound man carried two microphones. One on a boom which was a Mic with a broad audio pattern and the other was a shotgun microphone which he carried in his hand and aimed in the direction of the key audio. David Hoffman-filmmaker
@@prun8893 it's legitimately scary listening to people like you. You think you're not brainwashed but the big cats have you by the collar. You'll understand one day, but by then it will be far too late.
You know recently for my assignment, I learned that anti-unionism is strong in the South USA. My assignment isn't about that though so that's why I didn't learn much about it
David: Is there any chance that you might have known my wife’s NYC-based uncle Alan Levin (filmmaker)? Al did documentary film and reporting work and collaborated with Bill Moyers for many years. When I first saw a clip from this film I thought it might have been an early project that he might have worked on. Very much of the similar vibe. His 1986 film “Inside the Jury Room” which he did for PBS Frontline was, in my opinion, his masterpiece. I thought your film was excellent and a compelling look at a diverse group of workers going through a painstaking yet necessary negotiation process.
I did not know him. This film is not the style of films in the 1980s. This is from the 1960s and looks it. Although I am very proud to have shot and directed it. David Hoffman - filmmaker
22:00 "I see a lot of the younger leadership that's restless, and want to speak out more within movement and externally within the community.." Some things never go out of fashion. Wonder how Gen-Z and Millenials will use their power to suppress the younger voices 🧐
"Some of those fire officers driving at city hall double of the MVO guys and they sit on their ass much better because they got bigger behinds." "Right, Yes, That's righ- oh I've watched yours spreadin' too." He been watching his behind👀😏
The man at the start reminds me so much of Sollozo from The Godfather. Isit likely some of these guys were tied to the Mob? How gangster does he sound at 21:14 "I wanna wish you nothing but the best, but I fear the worst.." Hollywood stuff right there.
In Norway some smaller to mid sized companies try to fight Unionization and when they need allot of help, because they are failing or other like wondering about laws and such, they become member of the national EMPLOYER Union (NHO). This Union fight for the interests of the corporations and the field as a whole (the latter more in context of trade, exports and such), but the benefit for workers in this context is that as soon as a company becomes a member of the Employer Union. The Employer Union recommends them accepting their workers to Unionize because on a national level and export context wise there are benefits because a worker union, which is often directly tied to the national worker union (LO), are interested in retaining jobs. So when the going is good, wages are high and local buying power is high, which in turn creates more domestic demand and markets, but when the going gets tough. The Union will also agree to necessary things outside of regular laws (not breaking laws, but the law allow agreements and such on a strategic level) that enables a field to survive hardships they otherwise might have had higher risk in. In short, both Employer Unions and Worker Unions on a national level is a benefit, not a hindrance. Making 2% more short term with higher risk of going out of bis is not as good as staying in bis for the foreseeable future.
Because of the change in cost of goods and inflation I have no idea what 7 grand is in 1965. Today that's like half of minimum wage you're a few grand below poverty but the way they're talking it was obviously pretty good.
Some people do, although very few. It's dying due to immigration (both foreign and domestic), gentrification, and the fact that lower- and middle-class native New Yorkers are being priced out of the city. Also, when I leave the city, particularly when I'm abroad, I minimize my accent for the sake of comprehensibility. But when I'm hopped up on caffeine and nicotine and get all worked up over something, though, the accent really comes out.
The problem with the labor unions is, they start out with the best of intentions and invariably end up shooting themselves in the foot. Working at a power plant, while in the carpenters union, water coolers would have to be filled up, loaded onto a standard 1/2 ton pick-up truck and distributed throughout the entire plant every morning. But bcz of union rules, the laborers that filled up the coolers, were not allowed to drive the pick-up truck around to each of the water stations and take them out. A Teamster had to drive the pick-up and a laborer would have to ride with him to place the cooler on each stand. So many things like that happen in the unions and it’s just one of the reasons why unions have priced themselves out of a job in so many locations throughout the US.
Is this a jurisdiction issues with unions? I know that Writers Guild of America (both East and West) has jurisdiction issues with Animation Guild over writers working on animated projects.
@@inovakovsky Yes, I’m sure it was a jurisdictional issue. Unions don’t always ‘play nice’ with each other, let alone management. Another time, the ironworkers union decided that their members should take over all the installation of metal door frames with the logic - ‘The frame is made out of steel. We’re tasked with the placement of all steel components so, they’re ours.’ The job was traditionally done by the carpenters bcz, well, a carpenter hangs doors, right? Door installation is never quite as straightforward as it appears and actually requires a bit of ‘know-how’. After a bit of bickering between the unions, the ironworkers were given a ‘trial run’ on a particularly high profile job and needless to say, it did not go well. When practically none of the doors functionally operated, the task was given back to the carpenters and frankly the ironworkers were never so happy to relinquish it back to them.
Stuff like that not always unions though. Sometimes it bureaucrat management policy, some mangers just like to make rules for reasons, what every the reason maybe.
I’ve seen lots of inefficiencies working in non-union as well as partially unionized corporations. For every example of a Union inefficiency, there’s a boss’s boss somewhere whose “big idea” to look good with THEIR boss creates unnecessary work for everyone because they don’t understand what their workers actually do. Any organization as complex as NYC municipal government is bound to have loads of inefficiency, public or private; union or non-union.
Remember, these unions are arguing for pay raises, continuing education advancement, more and more benefits. The only way to pay for all this stuff is RAISING YOUR TAXES. In this case, NYC taxes. Shameful.
there's a lack of faith in hoping the money improves life and doesn't just go straight into a politicians pocket. that's what most of it boils down to when people are against higher taxation.
How does that make benefiting the people who actually do the work a bad thing? If the taxes went to produce profits for a contractor instead, the same dollars would still be taxed from the same people.
"The real contradiction - is people want more and more service, more cops on the deed, smaller classrooms for their kids (!), better highways - and then when it comes to paying for it, to hell with it!"
54 years and this still holds water so much it hurts.
Qimodis taxpayers
@Qimodis taxpayers do. And as somebody who is in a lower tax bracket, I think the system we have for how we tax people according to their wealth works for us in the lower income brackets right now. Then there is businesses, which is where the vast majority of tax revenue comes from.
The problem is that taxpayers already pay sooooo much in taxes. Every tax payer, whether rich or middle class, they collectively pay so much. Government wastes the taxes on things that aren't worth it, they pay for things that shouldn't cost as much. Have you heard of the 150$ hammer?
@@rameynoodles152
TLDR: tax raises on rich (not middle, not low) class people might do some good, but that money must be spent wisely. And that money could also come from parts of the gov't that are _flowing_ with money.
I guarantee there are obscene amounts of money held by the top 1% (even though it's admittedly not the same group of people at the top 1%, the principle of wealth inequality remains the same). CEOS of companies, banks, and filthy rich investors who fck everyone below them get bailouts from the government or other rich people while that money could be used for literally anything else. Think "too big to fail", and the Gamestop hedge- fund short- stockers who lost all their money on failed investments & then continued to invest the same exact way.
It _does_ matter how the govt's money is used, and that money overwhelmingly goes to subsidies for things Americans don't want (corn syrup), the military industrial complex, or bailouts.
While the education system, for example, is infamous for getting obscene amounts of money (and should, in my opinion, get more), the fact of the matter is that money is only as useful as what you spend it on. iPads and laptops to "be modern" and unnecessary renovations are wastes of money, but there are other wastes that are more subtle. For example, the inclusion of English Language learners (and kids who are REALLY behind) in the same classes as everybody else. It "saves" money, but at the cost of _everyone's education_ (yes, including their own). Having different categories of education wouldn't increase the number of classes, really. But it isn't done in many schools because reasons.
It's more cops on the beat, by the way, not deed
I'm just mesmerized by the amount of passion you hear in everyone's voices when they debate with one another, making sure to get their opinions across. And then for the listeners to not only agree or disagree, but to state their own reason on why they do or don't. It's something I don't see much of nowadays since most people I've encountered with are either soft spoken, making sure not to step on any toes or when they do have an opinion on something, they get angry if you don't agree with them which just leads to useless name calling or violence. Long story short, this documentary was just a breath of fresh air. That little statement at 15:31 was my favorite part from that meeting.
Elombe Kisala logic of adults arguing for the sake of resolution, not to be correct. These folks are open minded, earnest, and good listeners and talkers. It’s incredible to see this
That statement was a good one. A lot of jobs look easy until you have to do them.
@@saundras.9427 "A lot of jobs look easy until you have to do them."
This is on point! I daresay this has been true throughout human history.
This guy really gets it. When he talks about the broader issues and political struggle as opposed to just narrow bread and butter for members, that’s exactly what we need to think about today in rebuilding labor power and fixing American politics.
"You gon have me on your back and when you have me on your back, you gon have someone on your back" Damn that's a mean line right there
Improv'd too. I laughed the same as if I was in that room. I hope that woman went on to make a great life in her career!
"YOU'RE not a professional" makes me so angry, that attitude is why they have to be at that table! "A civil servant who took an exam" is most certainly a professional. amazing the disdain people can have for the working class
It's only true. You can't possibly know more than someone who is experienced in the field. Should a nurse who works in a clinic be put up against a doctor who has years and years of research studies and has treat patients more than you do any good to the society at all?
@@Gunbardo what are you trying to say
E Barbarian That it’s ridiculous for an inadequate person to join in a debate. He is speaking for a class he does not belong to, that is absurd.
What he meant is that the “professional” has a graduate degree, not “professional” as in getting paid to do the task.
@@SwordsmanRyan This is the question -- does a certificate make one a "pro?" Or are "pro" credentials only for a University degree holder -- or perhaps a college-level Associate degree??
"Make the man a whole man, and you make a better society."
Man needs to make himself whole, not the fiat system.
@@MR-nl8xrYou gotta stop being this naive, and admit that power balance isn't the same! 3 people in the US have more money than 50% of the population! So your proposal is just corporate propaganda, punching down!
The workers productivity increased, and without the workers the billionaires won't exist! So when workers bargain for better wages and benefits, you as a working class man (I assume) have to stand in solidarity, instead of acting like a temporarily embarassed billionaire! ALL the media is doing is to divide us so we re easily conquered! The billionaires would have us work for slavery wages and conditions if they can get away with it, so know which side you re on! This cucked libertarian working class perspective is disconnected from reality, naïve and hilarious!
Wake up
David Hoffman, your footage is amazing. A real time capsule of video history.
I look forward to every new video
Thank you Elmo. I have enough clips and stories I want to tell to take a lifetime but unfortunately, I don't have a lifetime left to tell them. But I'll keep plugging away at it.
David Hoffman
@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker you have one of the best channels on RUclips. It is so amazing to see people just as they were in the times that pop-culture and history have romanticized. It's always weird to see these films and realize that a lot of these people are no longer with us; but we have a unique opportunity to peak into times past and see what life was really like for them. Thank you so much for your hard work and for giving us the opportunity to experience history with you.
David Hoffman, I hope you know that as a Professional Industrial Officer for a Union in Sydney, Australia, on the other side of the world, 56 years after this was recorded; I took notes. Thank you for capturing this slice of social history. I'll be using it in negotiations next week.
How did it turn out?
Seriously one of the most interesting films I've watched about the labor movement and maybe my favorite short documentary. Strong characters, meaningful scenes, and a powerful message about the ideas that uphold the labor movement. Fantastic work, especially for the time!
"If we don't have dissent, then what are we?"
Honestly one of the best speeches I've ever heard.. gave me chills, and a new perspective
funny hearing people talk like that in nyc. i mean the accent is still there in the newer generations like me but its different. sounds like my grandparents
Hello Mr. David! I am the younger generation from Russia. I like your Videos! They have much history and present episodes. It is interesting to compare how the two great countries have evolved. Now it can be seen. Thanks you, what we can to seeing it!
Thank you. I appreciate your comment.
David Hoffman - filmmaker
Inflation Calculator (1965-->2021)
$7,000--->$59,821
$8,000--->$68,367
$13,000--->$111,096
The negotiations from 11.08 are something special. I admire and salute their passion and darn frankness which is missing today, I will infact take a leaf from their book!
My grandfather is the man in the dark jacket sitting to the left of the man in the white collard shirt with dark tie, he smokes a cigar at one point. Louis A. Addesso . RIP
Cool looking 😎 dude
This is such a funny thing to compare how things worked then to now having a brother in DC37 and a father who was a long time member who knows the ins an outs, like the fact that commissioners STILL HAVE PERSONAL DRIVERS.
This is definitely later than 1965. Lindsay didn't become mayor until January 1966. At 13:00, one of the negotiators shouts, "I had a court case back in '66." Victor Gotbaum's muttonchops are definitely post-1970. And look at the hair on the male assistant to the left of Herb Haber. You wouldn't have seen that in '65. Seems more like 1972 or '73.
FortyNineHudson you don't think Mr. Hoffman would remember when HE personally filmed this?
@@redrobbo1896 Some people make mistakes.
This is definitely in the late 60s, I seriously doubt this is the 1970s already. My guess is 1967.
@@Gabriel-br4qe At 9:22, the city's labor-relations negotiator, Herb Haber (with an assistant to his left who would definitely not have gotten a job with the city wearing his hair like that in 1967 ;), says, "under the freeze, we are limited in the amount of money we can spend". He's talking about Mayor John Lindsay's freeze of city-employee salaries, which was enacted on Aug 16, 1971: tinyurl.com/ydx7e6ny Lindsay left office at the end of 1973. So the footage had to have been shot sometime between August 1971 and December 1973.
@@wolfchrt Read the comments below yours. The people in the vid refer to events that had not yet happened in 1965. Back to the Future is just a movie.
Man it's like nothing has changed. Still the same arguments on the job to this day. Thanks for sharing very intriguing.
The original Office show
Boy I don't know what the heck they're talking about but I like this
It's workers union shit.
10:45 "Make a man whole, and you make a better society. ". Boom. The answers have always existed. But there is too much money to be made from broken men.
Great interviews, fascinating footage, captivating interactions, awesome editing. Good on you for having the foresight to film this when you did, and thanks for putting it up!
You've had great forethought in creating this. Thanks Sir.
I'm impressed at how this is 1965 and yet, regardless of the racial makeup of the class in the beginning of the video, everyone got along and worked together. That is beautiful.
Well, at the very least every one was able to have hard, confronting, & heated conversations without any physical lines being crossed or anyone acting like they just got murdered because of it.
Victor Gotbaum is the name of the labor leader featured. In case anyone is interested.
You are correct. A friendly good guy and very cooperative with the film I was trying to make.
David Hoffman filmmaker
Wow, these guys make me proud to be union, but sad at how low we have devolved since then. This is academy award-Pulitzer prize winning material. Great work Mr. Hoffman!
By the way, David. What did you use for recording the sound? Very well done for the time.
The recorder was a Nagra II - famous at the time for its quality. The tape at 15" per second. Also high-quality. And we used a boom with a Sennheiser mic.
David Hoffman-filmmaker
@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker fbi used the nagra.. Was there much mob activity? Probley a stupid question
St Peters Road irish
In the 60s, the mob owned everything really. Not a stupid question, to be fair. No question is stupid. : )
@@littlebrayutd Yeah, doesn’t sound like a stupid question at all. Actually seems kind of... wise. Are you some kind of wise guy??
I'm in this union!
My grandfather worked for the MTA in Brooklyn in some management capacity in this era... I'd pay money to see him at his work. Arguing or not.
This is a phenomenal documentary.
I wish my union did this type of training.
Which union and when was the last time you looked into it?
@@patrickj8339 MMP (Masters, Mates & Pilots)
@@patrickmorrissey3084 I know a member of that union! Have you checked with your president or gone to a meeting lately? If you're sincerely interested, you could look into getting sent to a training. If not through the MMP, possibly through the AFL-CIO. Or potentially the Jobs with Justice leadership training (which is a broader organizing training, but very applicable to the workplace). Check with your president. If leadership appears to be asleep at the wheel in your local, I'm sure folks at the International would be glad to hear from you.
@@patrickj8339 Thank you I will look into it in the future.
The amazing thing to me about your footage is for just about every thing I see in the news, there is footage you have from decades ago that is similar. Except for maybe the clip you have about people being introduced to computers. Makes me wonder if the tech boom distracted us from staying on top of our problems which are resurfacing today.
I think this is the coolest! Thanks for sharing it, David.
14:35
I had no idea Jackie Mason was a NY sanitation department driver!
It's scary how all these things still apply today
more comforting to me
shows how much human nature is the same through out all ages
Unions are scary; especially government employee unions.
@@prun8893 you will never surprise me, how much you miss the point. People like you are brainwashed by the upper class
The sad part is a lot of these problems still are thriving to this very day
The biggest problem is public employees pushing for higher taxes to pay for their desired lifestyle.
@@prun8893 No, the problem is the wealthy who don't want to pay their fair share of taxes, and the politicians who raise taxes on the less affluent so they can give their rich cronies tax cuts and other economic relief. The working classes bear the burden and the fat cats just get fatter.
@@kh3612 The top 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90% combined. Socialism has never and will never work. What are you a victim of?
wow, what a negotiation scene! wonder who had to take minutes. that's victor gotbaum (sp)?
Correct.
David Hoffman - filmmaker
@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker must've been a transitional period, with lindsay just coming into office. gotbaum also mentions ed hamilton, who would've been managing the budget. i was just a kid, but i always associate lindsay with a particularly turbulent period in nyc industrial relations.
This is incredible. Thank you David!
We need people like these today fighting for the rights of workers.
How I got here...I dont know. 10 minutes later...still watching...hook line
Thanks for posting this!
David Hoffman: thank you. This is amazing. I saw your comment and wonder if you can donate all your film somewhere so they can publish everything one day across their multiple lifetimes. Thank you sir, be well
Did Adam Curtis use some of your footage in Hypernormalization? Guy speaking for most of the film has a memorable appearance in Curtis's doc talking about finance guys making thousands of dollars on one transaction ("the slobs!")
to my knowledge, he did not.
David Hoffman-filmmaker
Inspiring stuff. Thanks for making it
inefficiency & productivity!
Excellent doc, thank you!
This is incredible
Absolutely remarkable work, I'm mesmerized. Can I ask how you managed to get this kind of audio? Especially between so many people in one room?
Mathew. The sound man carried two microphones. One on a boom which was a Mic with a broad audio pattern and the other was a shotgun microphone which he carried in his hand and aimed in the direction of the key audio.
David Hoffman-filmmaker
It's so sad that this is still so relevant in 2020 America.
Yes, unions are still a plague on America.
@@prun8893 it's legitimately scary listening to people like you. You think you're not brainwashed but the big cats have you by the collar. You'll understand one day, but by then it will be far too late.
Does anyone know the name of the union leader profiled in this documentary?
I'd like to know this too. I saw him talking on Alan Curtis documentary 'Hypernormalisation'. Definitely worth a watch. All his work is.
I think Victor Gotbaum
@@raphaelweb9677 It looks like you found it. Wow! Thank you so much!
Great piece of history.
David Hoffman is a historian.
You know recently for my assignment, I learned that anti-unionism is strong in the South USA. My assignment isn't about that though so that's why I didn't learn much about it
Incredible piece of history
This Is an amazing documentary.
Did anyone not smoke in the 1960's?
Few but being in the same room might as well have been
sean I didn’t but I wasn’t born yet.
David:
Is there any chance that you might have known my wife’s NYC-based uncle Alan Levin (filmmaker)? Al did documentary film and reporting work and collaborated with Bill Moyers for many years. When I first saw a clip from this film I thought it might have been an early project that he might have worked on. Very much of the similar vibe.
His 1986 film “Inside the Jury Room” which he did for PBS Frontline was, in my opinion, his masterpiece.
I thought your film was excellent and a compelling look at a diverse group of workers going through a painstaking yet necessary negotiation process.
I did not know him. This film is not the style of films in the 1980s. This is from the 1960s and looks it. Although I am very proud to have shot and directed it.
David Hoffman - filmmaker
I think this group of men need more black coffee, cigarettes (unfiltered) and stress. #greatvideo #archive #documentary
He was the best leader DC 37 ever had and not one single of today's Labor representatives can't ever be!! Shame on the MLC!!
Did he say $81 billion a year for a war budget? (16:16 - 16:17)
81 billion in 1965 is roughly $649,995,428,571.43 in todays money....absolutely baffling
@@bjaarki no
22:00 "I see a lot of the younger leadership that's restless, and want to speak out more within movement and externally within the community.."
Some things never go out of fashion. Wonder how Gen-Z and Millenials will use their power to suppress the younger voices 🧐
This is so good
Simply incredible. Do you have a website?
16:33 - 17:10 says it all man
Brilliant
Js Hoffman should be on the jre podcast.
01:01 Shibboleth Luv it!!!
Loved this
"Some of those fire officers driving at city hall double of the MVO guys and they sit on their ass much better because they got bigger behinds."
"Right, Yes, That's righ- oh I've watched yours spreadin' too."
He been watching his behind👀😏
The man at the start reminds me so much of Sollozo from The Godfather. Isit likely some of these guys were tied to the Mob? How gangster does he sound at 21:14 "I wanna wish you nothing but the best, but I fear the worst.." Hollywood stuff right there.
Whats the name of the Labor man this great doc focuses on?
Do you have more footage of those nyc union drivers meetings?
Its a shame that people are scared to Unionize like this nowadays, that fear holds back so many nowadays.
In Norway some smaller to mid sized companies try to fight Unionization and when they need allot of help, because they are failing or other like wondering about laws and such, they become member of the national EMPLOYER Union (NHO). This Union fight for the interests of the corporations and the field as a whole (the latter more in context of trade, exports and such), but the benefit for workers in this context is that as soon as a company becomes a member of the Employer Union. The Employer Union recommends them accepting their workers to Unionize because on a national level and export context wise there are benefits because a worker union, which is often directly tied to the national worker union (LO), are interested in retaining jobs. So when the going is good, wages are high and local buying power is high, which in turn creates more domestic demand and markets, but when the going gets tough. The Union will also agree to necessary things outside of regular laws (not breaking laws, but the law allow agreements and such on a strategic level) that enables a field to survive hardships they otherwise might have had higher risk in.
In short, both Employer Unions and Worker Unions on a national level is a benefit, not a hindrance. Making 2% more short term with higher risk of going out of bis is not as good as staying in bis for the foreseeable future.
Get Micheal Scott in their! He may be socially inept but when it comes to negotiating he's a freakin boss!
Why does that guy look so so familiar to me? the main guy talking. I lived in NYC my whole life..why does he look so familiar to me?
Not an American, let alone a New Yorker. So I found out his name is Victor Gotbaum. And apparently he's a very big figure in NYC's history
Also he looks a bit like Andrew Cuomo.
@@kertaspaper94 Born in Brooklyn in 1921
Who was the Union negotiator that was yelling?
Why do people who are not from a working class never seem to understand what the fuck is going on in the 'lower ranks' of society?
Probably because they dont want to, because `understanding` makes them loose money out of their pockets.
7:50 what's Mel Brooks doing there?
Because of the change in cost of goods and inflation I have no idea what 7 grand is in 1965.
Today that's like half of minimum wage you're a few grand below poverty but the way they're talking it was obviously pretty good.
That 7 grand would be 57 grand today.
Noticed folks back then spoke so clearly. No “ummms” “likes”, etc. Wonder where along the line we lost that.
man that accent ...do peoe still talk that way now ??
Only the old timers unfortunately.
I love the accent. As a Brit we see this as a classic bad-ass don't fuck with me Yank accent... That's a compliment.
Some people do, although very few. It's dying due to immigration (both foreign and domestic), gentrification, and the fact that lower- and middle-class native New Yorkers are being priced out of the city. Also, when I leave the city, particularly when I'm abroad, I minimize my accent for the sake of comprehensibility. But when I'm hopped up on caffeine and nicotine and get all worked up over something, though, the accent really comes out.
19:21 did he just use the word "clout"? I thought that was a new term...
Zoomer
This guy is mad about getting only 7 no-show jobs on a 300 million budget...
19:23 "Clout"
13:11
Where’s Pesci, Pacino, DeNiro, and Liotta?
@Clams McGee Quite an imagination you have.
Clams McGee There’s wonderful doctors and drugs out there. Go get yourself some help.
Dere nawt professionals. Dey owe toiten towsan dawllas.
Lol, the mafia riddled this place
The problem with the labor unions is, they start out with the best of intentions and invariably end up shooting themselves in the foot.
Working at a power plant, while in the carpenters union, water coolers would have to be filled up, loaded onto a standard 1/2 ton pick-up truck and distributed throughout the entire plant every morning. But bcz of union rules, the laborers that filled up the coolers, were not allowed to drive the pick-up truck around to each of the water stations and take them out. A Teamster had to drive the pick-up and a laborer would have to ride with him to place the cooler on each stand. So many things like that happen in the unions and it’s just one of the reasons why unions have priced themselves out of a job in so many locations throughout the US.
Is this a jurisdiction issues with unions? I know that Writers Guild of America (both East and West) has jurisdiction issues with Animation Guild over writers working on animated projects.
@@inovakovsky Yes, I’m sure it was a jurisdictional issue. Unions don’t always ‘play nice’ with each other, let alone management.
Another time, the ironworkers union decided that their members should take over all the installation of metal door frames with the logic - ‘The frame is made out of steel. We’re tasked with the placement of all steel components so, they’re ours.’ The job was traditionally done by the carpenters bcz, well, a carpenter hangs doors, right? Door installation is never quite as straightforward as it appears and actually requires a bit of ‘know-how’. After a bit of bickering between the unions, the ironworkers were given a ‘trial run’ on a particularly high profile job and needless to say, it did not go well. When practically none of the doors functionally operated, the task was given back to the carpenters and frankly the ironworkers were never so happy to relinquish it back to them.
@@psidvicious This reminds me craft versus industrial unionism prior to the merging of the AFL and CIO.
Stuff like that not always unions though. Sometimes it bureaucrat management policy, some mangers just like to make rules for reasons, what every the reason maybe.
I’ve seen lots of inefficiencies working in non-union as well as partially unionized corporations. For every example of a Union inefficiency, there’s a boss’s boss somewhere whose “big idea” to look good with THEIR boss creates unnecessary work for everyone because they don’t understand what their workers actually do. Any organization as complex as NYC municipal government is bound to have loads of inefficiency, public or private; union or non-union.
Remember, these unions are arguing for pay raises, continuing education advancement, more and more benefits. The only way to pay for all this stuff is RAISING YOUR TAXES. In this case, NYC taxes. Shameful.
there's a lack of faith in hoping the money improves life and doesn't just go straight into a politicians pocket. that's what most of it boils down to when people are against higher taxation.
The government (Republican or Democrat) will keep finding ways to raise the taxes anyways. May as well be for something helpful.
How does that make benefiting the people who actually do the work a bad thing?
If the taxes went to produce profits for a contractor instead, the same dollars would still be taxed from the same people.