I have gone thru a similar rebuild and am in the process of getting everything back into spec. I replaced the Turcite on the Y and the Z. I had to build some tools to do most of this. I was told by a Fadal tech that in the later years the X Turcite was shortened up to eliminate the issue that you are having. If that is true, you might be able to cut it shorter. Mine did not go the full length, and was the only Turcite that looked good. The Turcite will come off fairly easily, but cleaning the glue out of the rough grooves is a task. I tried everything to soften it up and never had any luck. Lots of time with a wire brush and a steel pick.
This is great new because someone as offered his leftovers turcite for a good price but he doesn’t have enough for the full length. Many thanks for the tip!!!
Blaise, As previously commented the turcite was shortened up. And depending on the delaminating we would cut off the flaps of the longer ones. I would be comfortable in trimming yours. Additionally there were severe cases of delamination that we would bring back the table or table/saddle assemblies back to our showroom/shop and replace with new turcite. Then we would slap the repaired assemblies onto a showroom machine and recut the repaired components. In the field as in the factory a spray adhesive would be applied to the way surface, then fine grit abrasive strips would be adhered to the way surface, table set/ saddle reassembled, gibs fitted not to tight, then slide components back and forth to achieve a per say lapped in surface. Yes the lazy serviceman would slap the ballscrew and motor on for "power lapping". The process took time, as to repeat the process till satisfied. The table/saddles would see the worst damage. I'm not sure if it was from waylube or coolants that customers used, I've seen some crazy shit! I might open a can of worms here but please use Mobil vactra 2 waylube. Coolant wise, no input. I've unfortunately had my ass in some along with slivers in my ass of ugly coolant. There were times when I would come home from a week on the road, and my car would be reeking of those smells. I hope this helps, keep up on the overhaul. Nice price by the way! Now you got me looking. What are you going to use for power? And is there a way to communicate outside these public comment areas? Take care, Jeff
This is great news!!! Installing new turcite and all the scraping process was a bit scary to me! Just trimming will save me time and money and potentially a more accurate machine! I will use the waylube you are suggesting. I can see how crucial the role of way lube is so I will gladly follow your recommendation! As for power, I plan on making a beefy DC power supply for the servos and a 10 HP VFD to drive the spindle motor.
Hi Blaise, Imstill trying to remove my old turcite I bought a 4' x 2' strip of Rulon142 and a pint kit of the CE-211R epoxy ($500.) but have yet to cut it. My ways are so pitted I am going to try to just glue it flat with some ground flat stock and c-clamps when I do mine. It may be a while though. It is my understanding that If you can get it flat enough when you glue it down it can be just scraped in flat and not machined but I'm not the expert on this either.
He @jimcisme1 ! Sorry to hear that your ways are in bad shape! It may be a while before I do mine as well. Is it hard to remove the turcite and glue? What's you best technique so far? I was thinking of trying heat But with heat, there's a good chance the glue will stay on the table and not come with the turcite so probably no good! Let me know if you find an easy way to get it off. I was hoping to maybe save some of the the turcite I will remove and use it to replace some of the worst gibs. Also may be not such a good idea! Hahaha! I will probably post a new video on Sunday.
@@BlaiseBarrette I used a small ballpeen hammer with a Single-beveled wood chisel with the bevel down and flat with the metal and then a wire brush in my cordless drill to remove the turcite and epoxy then acetone for cleanup. I have read that people are using heat to remove old oil from the cast iron but I do not have a rosebud to heat up the 1/2 ton+ table so I skipped that and just made sure the cast iron was above 70F and used the acetone liberally with a toothbrush and cotton cloth (old t-shirt). Only time will tell if I did it right.
Hi Ian, Yes I read the hole thread! Very interesting! You clearly are a real Jedi! But there's so much I still don't know how! How am I gonna use blue ink to mark the turcite high spots if I don't have a marble ruler like yours? and How do I mesure my progress? How do I know I am straight? How do I make the relief in the center? How deep? How will I machine the way lube channels? So many questions!!! All of my reading and searching will be about installing turcite until it's done! Do you know of RUclips videos, channels, pdf documents you think I should look at? I am very interested to buy your leftover turcite. I need two 49.25" by 2" strips. Thanks Ian! Appreciate it!
@@BlaiseBarrette You must have a much older fadal 4020 or do you have a 6030? The newer 4020s use less than 36”x2”of turcite. I see yours travels the full table the longest I could have available is 48”. Please also note if you buy a turcite kit from one of the fadal places you will not get that long of turcite. I do not think you need to grind your ways so to blue your turcite you will apply the blue to the ways of the saddle. Then place the table on the saddle and mark it up. Then scrape the high points. You will need some decent indicators and maybe a stand or 2. To check if you have good geometry you will just use an indicator to the top of the table. The relief in the center will be about .002” deep. You will need to make a hand scraper and a way to sharpen it. If you pm me your email I can send you a book to read.
@@ianagos4276 I don't think 5/8 inch missing on each end will be a problem. Still much better than what I have now! I will PM you on the Practical Machinist forum! Thanks so much!
1)How do you ensure the parallelism of two separate rails with scrapping method? 2) What if you would glue new turcide and than machine those surfaces flat on another cnc? Is it flat enough or should the shape take into consideration unequal loading of the bed in center and side positions?
I have gone thru a similar rebuild and am in the process of getting everything back into spec. I replaced the Turcite on the Y and the Z. I had to build some tools to do most of this. I was told by a Fadal tech that in the later years the X Turcite was shortened up to eliminate the issue that you are having. If that is true, you might be able to cut it shorter. Mine did not go the full length, and was the only Turcite that looked good. The Turcite will come off fairly easily, but cleaning the glue out of the rough grooves is a task. I tried everything to soften it up and never had any luck. Lots of time with a wire brush and a steel pick.
This is great new because someone as offered his leftovers turcite for a good price but he doesn’t have enough for the full length. Many thanks for the tip!!!
I don't have any idea how to fix this, buy I'm really enjoying your videos. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to the next video. Best of luck.
Glad you like the videos! I sure am having fun making them!
Blaise, As previously commented the turcite was shortened up. And depending on the delaminating we would cut off the flaps of the longer ones. I would be comfortable in trimming yours. Additionally there were severe cases of delamination that we would bring back the table or table/saddle assemblies back to our showroom/shop and replace with new turcite. Then we would slap the repaired assemblies onto a showroom machine and recut the repaired components. In the field as in the factory a spray adhesive would be applied to the way surface, then fine grit abrasive strips would be adhered to the way surface, table set/ saddle reassembled, gibs fitted not to tight, then slide components back and forth to achieve a per say lapped in surface. Yes the lazy serviceman would slap the ballscrew and motor on for "power lapping". The process took time, as to repeat the process till satisfied. The table/saddles would see the worst damage. I'm not sure if it was from waylube or coolants that customers used, I've seen some crazy shit! I might open a can of worms here but please use Mobil vactra 2 waylube. Coolant wise, no input. I've unfortunately had my ass in some along with slivers in my ass of ugly coolant. There were times when I would come home from a week on the road, and my car would be reeking of those smells. I hope this helps, keep up on the overhaul. Nice price by the way! Now you got me looking. What are you going to use for power? And is there a way to communicate outside these public comment areas? Take care, Jeff
This is great news!!! Installing new turcite and all the scraping process was a bit scary to me! Just trimming will save me time and money and potentially a more accurate machine! I will use the waylube you are suggesting. I can see how crucial the role of way lube is so I will gladly follow your recommendation! As for power, I plan on making a beefy DC power supply for the servos and a 10 HP VFD to drive the spindle motor.
You can email me at blaiseb at mac dot com. 😁
Hi Blaise, Imstill trying to remove my old turcite I bought a 4' x 2' strip of Rulon142 and a pint kit of the CE-211R epoxy ($500.) but have yet to cut it. My ways are so pitted I am going to try to just glue it flat with some ground flat stock and c-clamps when I do mine. It may be a while though. It is my understanding that If you can get it flat enough when you glue it down it can be just scraped in flat and not machined but I'm not the expert on this either.
He @jimcisme1 ! Sorry to hear that your ways are in bad shape! It may be a while before I do mine as well. Is it hard to remove the turcite and glue? What's you best technique so far? I was thinking of trying heat But with heat, there's a good chance the glue will stay on the table and not come with the turcite so probably no good! Let me know if you find an easy way to get it off. I was hoping to maybe save some of the the turcite I will remove and use it to replace some of the worst gibs. Also may be not such a good idea! Hahaha! I will probably post a new video on Sunday.
@@BlaiseBarrette I used a small ballpeen hammer with a Single-beveled wood chisel with the bevel down and flat with the metal and then a wire brush in my cordless drill to remove the turcite and epoxy then acetone for cleanup. I have read that people are using heat to remove old oil from the cast iron but I do not have a rosebud to heat up the 1/2 ton+ table so I skipped that and just made sure the cast iron was above 70F and used the acetone liberally with a toothbrush and cotton cloth (old t-shirt). Only time will tell if I did it right.
Did you read my thread on pm?
Also I may have enough extra turcite for you to do your work there.
Hi Ian, Yes I read the hole thread! Very interesting! You clearly are a real Jedi!
But there's so much I still don't know how! How am I gonna use blue ink to mark the turcite high spots if I don't have a marble ruler like yours? and How do I mesure my progress? How do I know I am straight? How do I make the relief in the center? How deep? How will I machine the way lube channels? So many questions!!! All of my reading and searching will be about installing turcite until it's done! Do you know of RUclips videos, channels, pdf documents you think I should look at?
I am very interested to buy your leftover turcite. I need two 49.25" by 2" strips.
Thanks Ian! Appreciate it!
@@BlaiseBarrette
You must have a much older fadal 4020 or do you have a 6030?
The newer 4020s use less than 36”x2”of turcite. I see yours travels the full table the longest I could have available is 48”. Please also note if you buy a turcite kit from one of the fadal places you will not get that long of turcite.
I do not think you need to grind your ways so to blue your turcite you will apply the blue to the ways of the saddle. Then place the table on the saddle and mark it up. Then scrape the high points. You will need some decent indicators and maybe a stand or 2.
To check if you have good geometry you will just use an indicator to the top of the table.
The relief in the center will be about .002” deep.
You will need to make a hand scraper and a way to sharpen it. If you pm me your email I can send you a book to read.
@@ianagos4276 I don't think 5/8 inch missing on each end will be a problem. Still much better than what I have now! I will PM you on the Practical Machinist forum! Thanks so much!
@Ian Agos did you get my PM on Practical Machinist?
1)How do you ensure the parallelism of two separate rails with scrapping method?
2) What if you would glue new turcide and than machine those surfaces flat on another cnc? Is it flat enough or should the shape take into consideration unequal loading of the bed in center and side positions?