We need more people (like Protestant Perspective) teaching what the early reformers taught on free will! (Many of them were, in fact, not determinists)
I came to faith at a very hyper-calvinist church, it wasn't until I started reading the Bible thoroughly that I took issue to the TULIP acrostic, and since then I've been on a journey. I'm definitely a Hypo-Universalist, however I'm at a stage where I don't know if I'm a "low Calvinist" or an Arminian these days. I tend to prefer Polhill's writings on Hypo-Uni.
Jacob Arminius Says this! “I grant that there is a certain eternal decree of God, according to which he administers the means necessary to faith and salvation, and this he does in such a manner as he knows to be suited to righteousness, that is, to his mercy and his severity.” (Arminius Speaks, 375)
I have a few questions. Probably more geared to @Protestant Perspective. First if God desires all men saved...does He fail in saving the ones not saved? Because if you've experienced the New Birth, Regeneration...you know it was a supernatural move of God. Second, the duty of believers to believe. Maybe that ties into the first question. If God supernaturally brings us into the Kingdom...how can someone given the new heart, that is turned towards God neglect to believe? I am still studying and open to hearing different views. But everything must be spoken about in Scripture for me to believe it. God Bless.
So at the basic way to explain it is this. God doesn’t fail to save, God saves those whom he has predestined. He has the power to overcome anyone’s unbelief and He effectually does this in the predestined. In the non elect, similar to a Classical Arminian view, God sends His gospel and Spirit to all and men reject it. They refuse to come to Christ that they may have life. God desires their salvation but not apart from their repentance and faith. God has decreed to permit them to do as they desire and abuse the means of their salvation by their own free will. (This is part of what is called reprobation) So no, God doesn’t fail to save those whom He intends to effectually save. And doesn’t fail in His eternal decree with the non elect because He has desired their salvation but not apart from their repentance and faith. As to your second question, the non elect are not given a new heart. They are not regenerate. Hope that made sense :)
@@ProtestantPerspective1517 I too am Reformed/Calvinist in Theology. I do understand that. I guess my struggle with listening to your talk, was when l hear that God desires all men to be saved. The universal view l believe you said you held too. The God that Scripture describes is 💯 completely able to save every man that He has set his eye upon. Not one will be missed as Jesus said in John 6:39, John 17:12 It's all about the Father's will. That's just where l struggle with people saying it's God's will all be saved when Jesus fulfills His Father's will perfectly. According to the explanation of Supra and Infra lapsarianism in Berkoffs Systematic Theology...l would have to agree with Supra. But like l said l am still studying it. Thanks for answering. Great to have these discussions. God Bless
Are we talking 2 Peter 3:9 here? I mean that has to be a scripture anchor. If so, yes, you can say God in His moral will, what He would like to see happen would for all people to be saved. Yet, He has another will that Daniel said can't be thwarted. We can land safely on that then I am good.
God in His revealed will, which is a real will, desires the salvation of all men. Yet in his decretive will He has decreed to permit men to reject the means to their salvation.
Mark 1.15 KJV "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." A favourite text of those who promote the erroneous doctrine of duty faith/repentance, which advocates that all are obligated to savingly repent and believe who hear the Gospel preached. Now, before we look at 3 texts which will show the falsehood and contradictory nature of this teaching, a question must be asked - are all who own and read a Bible duty bound to have faith in Jesus Christ ? If not, why not ? (1) "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." (Math 7.6) Here we have the explicit words of the Lord Himself to His disciples, something they had NOT to do. What was that ? It was to 'give' or 'cast' heavenly truth to 'dogs' and 'swine.' By giving and casting the Lord meant simply to preach, declare, or show forth ; to testify of something, or more accurately, Someone. He is the Holy One of Israel and the Holy One of God; He is the One who calls His people to be holy, for He is Holy. His disciples were commanded NOT to preach what they had been taught, what they owned, their pearls. He is the pearl of great price which a man dares not depart from, for all a poor sinner can have and possess is found in Him; To them He is precious, more precious than silver and gold, for He remains the same, unlike all created things. Now, who are these 'dogs' and 'swine'? To the Jews, dogs and pigs are filthy, disgusting, unclean creatures. Our Lord's usage of this terminology would be easily understood to His hearers - do not preach to those opposed to truth, those who have no interest in heavenly truth, those who disdain the truth, the truth as it is found in Christ, who is the Truth. They will vomit the truth back out for they are unclean, beasts of the earth. Christ says do not preach to them. Christ says do not call these to "repent ye, and believe the Gospel" for they are not part of the 'ye' in our text. (2) "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Luke 5.32) What did Jesus come into this world, both bodily and by His Spirit, not to do ? Call the righteous. The word translated 'call' also means to invite ; the Lord did not, and does not, invite the righteous - that is the righteous in their own estimation. The self-righteous know they are sinners (and the more honest will admit this) yet they aren't that sick. They are convinced they can cure themselves by a 'good' deed here and there; they do not need the Righteous One. The call is made to 'sinners' and that to repentance; these are the characters Jesus says to "repent ye, and believe the Gospel." Sinners, as designated in this text, are those who have been convicted of their sin and the consequence sin entails, that is death - "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment" (John 16.8). The Spirit of Christ reveals these truths unto all whom Christ died for, in greater or lesser measure, and all will be brought into a state of contrition over sin. Then they are compelled to cry out "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me." (3) "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Math 11.28) Here, again the call or invitation is to a specific group of people, a people who display certain traits: they 'labour' and are 'heavy laden.' They labour under the burden of their unbelief, in the world yet not of it, the suggestions and subtilty of the Devil, their many backslidings. They are weighed down with trials and tribulations wherein they feel they may sink under, into a dark pit where there is no light. Yet they, given hearing ears, hear the Master's call, and like sheep, follow Him for they have an everlasting union with Him that cannot be broken. These precious words of Jesus are not for another group: the 'wise' and the 'prudent.' Jesus does not call them to repent and believe. The Father Himself has hide the truth from them (see verse 25). Only the babes are given knowledge, and wisdom, and repentance : "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger"(Psalm 8.2). The Lord Jesus Christ in our text was calling, and continues to call, His people. The Lord was calling those whom He foreknew, those given to Him in eternal election, those born from above and with the image and likeness of Himself dwelling in them. The Lord knoweth all them that are His.
@@Berserker_85 They strive for consistency within Calvinism; they don't sugar-coat their claims; they're not afraid to take Calvinism to its logical conclusions.
@@Berserker_85 One unashamedly makes God directly the author of sin by Decree and also says God actively hates those He doesn't elect while the other hides behind secondary causes and God "passing by" those He doesn't elect.
@@Eloign How would the decree which is just the eternal plan of God make him the author of sin? In that he has planned to permit men to sin of their own free will. I don’t see how that would logically make God the author of sin. Every view has to account for the types of love and hate of God. He loves all people but hates the wicked yet loves them in that they are his workmanship and desires their repentance and faith. God has a general love for all but it’s clear in scripture that he has a special love for his Church. Just because he has elected some to be brought to saving faith and allows the rest to abuse and reject their means to salvation doesn’t mean he actively hates them in the Hyperist sense where there is no kind of love for the elect or only a “love” that is just merely a care for their temporal well being.
Matthew 12:36-37 KJV [36] But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [37] For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
"Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause." Isaiah 1:16-17
The Geneva Bible works fine. The KJV is a great Bible, and you can never go wrong with it. BUT… Let’s not pretend that the King James’ Bible Translators didn’t heavily “borrow” (*cough, cough, plagiarize) from the Geneva Bible. The KJV is many great things, and I’d stake my life on it to be sure. But I’m sorry bud… it ain’t the original English gangsta’. It’s essentially James’ attempt to copy and replace the Geneva, which is also based on the Textus Receptus so the KJV only peeps can’t claim that it’s corrupted by Wescott and Hort like they always do.
The denial of the universal will to save on God’s part is incredibly popular in online Calvinism today. It’s sad.
We need more people (like Protestant Perspective) teaching what the early reformers taught on free will! (Many of them were, in fact, not determinists)
I came to faith at a very hyper-calvinist church, it wasn't until I started reading the Bible thoroughly that I took issue to the TULIP acrostic, and since then I've been on a journey. I'm definitely a Hypo-Universalist, however I'm at a stage where I don't know if I'm a "low Calvinist" or an Arminian these days. I tend to prefer Polhill's writings on Hypo-Uni.
Jacob Arminius Says this!
“I grant that there is a certain eternal decree of God, according to which he administers the means necessary to faith and salvation, and this he does in such a manner as he knows to be suited to righteousness, that is, to his mercy and his severity.” (Arminius Speaks, 375)
I have a few questions. Probably more geared to @Protestant Perspective. First if God desires all men saved...does He fail in saving the ones not saved? Because if you've experienced the New Birth, Regeneration...you know it was a supernatural move of God. Second, the duty of believers to believe. Maybe that ties into the first question. If God supernaturally brings us into the Kingdom...how can someone given the new heart, that is turned towards God neglect to believe? I am still studying and open to hearing different views. But everything must be spoken about in Scripture for me to believe it. God Bless.
So at the basic way to explain it is this. God doesn’t fail to save, God saves those whom he has predestined. He has the power to overcome anyone’s unbelief and He effectually does this in the predestined.
In the non elect, similar to a Classical Arminian view, God sends His gospel and Spirit to all and men reject it. They refuse to come to Christ that they may have life. God desires their salvation but not apart from their repentance and faith. God has decreed to permit them to do as they desire and abuse the means of their salvation by their own free will. (This is part of what is called reprobation)
So no, God doesn’t fail to save those whom He intends to effectually save. And doesn’t fail in His eternal decree with the non elect because He has desired their salvation but not apart from their repentance and faith.
As to your second question, the non elect are not given a new heart. They are not regenerate.
Hope that made sense :)
@@ProtestantPerspective1517 I too am Reformed/Calvinist in Theology. I do understand that. I guess my struggle with listening to your talk, was when l hear that God desires all men to be saved. The universal view l believe you said you held too. The God that Scripture describes is 💯 completely able to save every man that He has set his eye upon. Not one will be missed as Jesus said in John 6:39, John 17:12 It's all about the Father's will. That's just where l struggle with people saying it's God's will all be saved when Jesus fulfills His Father's will perfectly. According to the explanation of Supra and Infra lapsarianism in Berkoffs Systematic Theology...l would have to agree with Supra. But like l said l am still studying it. Thanks for answering. Great to have these discussions. God Bless
Are we talking 2 Peter 3:9 here? I mean that has to be a scripture anchor. If so, yes, you can say God in His moral will, what He would like to see happen would for all people to be saved. Yet, He has another will that Daniel said can't be thwarted. We can land safely on that then I am good.
God in His revealed will, which is a real will, desires the salvation of all men. Yet in his decretive will He has decreed to permit men to reject the means to their salvation.
Mark 1.15 KJV
"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."
A favourite text of those who promote the erroneous doctrine of duty faith/repentance, which advocates that all are obligated to savingly repent and believe who hear the Gospel preached. Now, before we look at 3 texts which will show the falsehood and contradictory nature of this teaching, a question must be asked - are all who own and read a Bible duty bound to have faith in Jesus Christ ? If not, why not ?
(1) "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." (Math 7.6)
Here we have the explicit words of the Lord Himself to His disciples, something they had NOT to do. What was that ? It was to 'give' or 'cast' heavenly truth to 'dogs' and 'swine.' By giving and casting the Lord meant simply to preach, declare, or show forth ; to testify of something, or more accurately, Someone. He is the Holy One of Israel and the Holy One of God; He is the One who calls His people to be holy, for He is Holy. His disciples were commanded NOT to preach what they had been taught, what they owned, their pearls. He is the pearl of great price which a man dares not depart from, for all a poor sinner can have and possess is found in Him; To them He is precious, more precious than silver and gold, for He remains the same, unlike all created things.
Now, who are these 'dogs' and 'swine'? To the Jews, dogs and pigs are filthy, disgusting, unclean creatures. Our Lord's usage of this terminology would be easily understood to His hearers - do not preach to those opposed to truth, those who have no interest in heavenly truth, those who disdain the truth, the truth as it is found in Christ, who is the Truth. They will vomit the truth back out for they are unclean, beasts of the earth. Christ says do not preach to them. Christ says do not call these to "repent ye, and believe the Gospel" for they are not part of the 'ye' in our text.
(2) "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Luke 5.32)
What did Jesus come into this world, both bodily and by His Spirit, not to do ? Call the righteous. The word translated 'call' also means to invite ; the Lord did not, and does not, invite the righteous - that is the righteous in their own estimation. The self-righteous know they are sinners (and the more honest will admit this) yet they aren't that sick. They are convinced they can cure themselves by a 'good' deed here and there; they do not need the Righteous One.
The call is made to 'sinners' and that to repentance; these are the characters Jesus says to "repent ye, and believe the Gospel." Sinners, as designated in this text, are those who have been convicted of their sin and the consequence sin entails, that is death - "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment" (John 16.8). The Spirit of Christ reveals these truths unto all whom Christ died for, in greater or lesser measure, and all will be brought into a state of contrition over sin. Then they are compelled to cry out "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me."
(3) "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Math 11.28)
Here, again the call or invitation is to a specific group of people, a people who display certain traits: they 'labour' and are 'heavy laden.' They labour under the burden of their unbelief, in the world yet not of it, the suggestions and subtilty of the Devil, their many backslidings. They are weighed down with trials and tribulations wherein they feel they may sink under, into a dark pit where there is no light. Yet they, given hearing ears, hear the Master's call, and like sheep, follow Him for they have an everlasting union with Him that cannot be broken.
These precious words of Jesus are not for another group: the 'wise' and the 'prudent.' Jesus does not call them to repent and believe. The Father Himself has hide the truth from them (see verse 25). Only the babes are given knowledge, and wisdom, and repentance : "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger"(Psalm 8.2).
The Lord Jesus Christ in our text was calling, and continues to call, His people. The Lord was calling those whom He foreknew, those given to Him in eternal election, those born from above and with the image and likeness of Himself dwelling in them.
The Lord knoweth all them that are His.
A Hyper-Calvinist is just an honest Calvinist.
In what way?
@@Berserker_85 They strive for consistency within Calvinism; they don't sugar-coat their claims; they're not afraid to take Calvinism to its logical conclusions.
@@gk.4102 in what way are they consistent? What beliefs do you think consistently lead to Hyper-Calvinism?
@@Berserker_85 One unashamedly makes God directly the author of sin by Decree and also says God actively hates those He doesn't elect while the other hides behind secondary causes and God "passing by" those He doesn't elect.
@@Eloign How would the decree which is just the eternal plan of God make him the author of sin? In that he has planned to permit men to sin of their own free will. I don’t see how that would logically make God the author of sin.
Every view has to account for the types of love and hate of God. He loves all people but hates the wicked yet loves them in that they are his workmanship and desires their repentance and faith. God has a general love for all but it’s clear in scripture that he has a special love for his Church. Just because he has elected some to be brought to saving faith and allows the rest to abuse and reject their means to salvation doesn’t mean he actively hates them in the Hyperist sense where there is no kind of love for the elect or only a “love” that is just merely a care for their temporal well being.
Uh oh , here’s a cult like kjv only guy in the comments!
lol
Calvinism itself is Heresy!
Cap
Please, what is your final authority? If you say the Bible, which bible? And don't tell me there is no perfect translation
There is no perfect translation.
Matthew 12:36-37 KJV
[36] But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [37] For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
@@wallacewillard7131 I hath spoketh that which is true
"Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
bring justice to the fatherless,
plead the widow's cause." Isaiah 1:16-17
The Geneva Bible works fine.
The KJV is a great Bible, and you can never go wrong with it.
BUT…
Let’s not pretend that the King James’ Bible Translators didn’t heavily “borrow” (*cough, cough, plagiarize) from the Geneva Bible.
The KJV is many great things, and I’d stake my life on it to be sure. But I’m sorry bud… it ain’t the original English gangsta’. It’s essentially James’ attempt to copy and replace the Geneva, which is also based on the Textus Receptus so the KJV only peeps can’t claim that it’s corrupted by Wescott and Hort like they always do.