Glad someone else mentioned the lack of a deflector. This is one of my favorites. It's the only Federation ship that can rotate in it's own footprint. It's important for presenting the portrait to the enemy you want and positioning your weapons.
This was interesting. In Star Trek Starfleet Command the Miranda-class was really kick ass. It had all of the firepower of a heavy cruiser and all the mobility of a destroyer. The Miranda-class actually served longer than the Constitution-class Enterprise-A style ship. Pretty impressive and better than the Enterprise-A in a lot of ways. It was the Cat's meow in its hay day, but it couldn't stack up to The Next Generation era of ships.
It was one of the bast damn ships you could have in Starfleet Command. As you said, it was classified as a light cruiser, handled as well as a destroyer and had the firepower to match most heavy cruisers. It was kind of a bummer having to replace it with something bigger due to how the campaign worked.
marcboss6 yop, because i dont quite believe this light cruiser with less space to fit a big warpcore, therefor having less energy, could as spock said "outgun" the good ol' conny refit
Great episode guys. Interesting angle or discussion concept. For many of us, the draw is the technology and design of ships that make up the Federation. I was drawn to your video as I'm building a Miranda class and am always looking for comments and details to better accurarize my model. Keep up the good work.
they are the most realistic of the phasers systems if you are going for a battlecruiser, as you want Large fields of fire the most coverage and highest chance percentage of hit per watt of power used, that is Pulse not Beam
If i remember correctly, the Avenger class was the heavy combat ship, thus it had photon torpedos, the miranda class didn't have photon torpedos, the mega phasers being the equivlent of torpedo launchers and it was more or less designed to replace the single engine saladin class in the destroyer/scout role.
Mirranda class is my favourite ship design by far. You forgot to mention it apeared as the Uss Saratoga twice both with very different registry numbers. Once in Startrek 4 (with no spoiler or roll bar)when it got shut down by the whale probe. Then Later in DS9 when it appeared as Uss Saratoga (new regitration an roll bar) where it faught at Worf 359. :-) dunno why but I thought it was worth a shout out :-)
+Pri yon Joni That was always my take too. That the Miranda had come out post Enterprise Refit. Also, as far as it was ever inferred in my head, the Enterprise was the first ship (refit) of her kind. That's why she was the ship to go against V'ger, because she was caring the absolute best that Starfleet could muster.
Hey Captain Foley and Commander Cockings USS Enterprise didn't need rearward firing Photon torpedoes because she would never run from a fight and show her ass to the enemy. Hehe Thanks for cool video on the Miranda class. First time I saw this ship was in Wrath of Kahn which i first saw in a German movie theater when i was stationed in ( West Germany ) in US Army. Was interesting to see it all in German. " Star Trek II: Der Zorn Des Kahn "
Even a movie era Miranda could take out a Delta flyer. Even though its newer, its much to small to go toe to toe with a miranda class. It's like a modern Mark 5 special ops Naval craft going against a WW2 battleship. The Delta Flyer is just not designed to take on a ship 10-15 times its mass.
according to the starship spotter, the miranda's roll bar mounted phasers were fed directly off of the primary plasma feeds for the warp nacelles which produced a much heavier hitting phaser. they called it an omi-directional pulsephaser pulse phaser, which in TMP were about equal to Type VIII. so in TNG they would be about equal to Type IXs.
The Reliant/ Miranda class starship is one of my favorite in Star Trek. I've never seen the TOS version before. I really do like that very much as well.
Personally I like the Miranda class ship not a big bad warship but as a less potent ship. Khan was badass because he was smart opportunist. Not because of his ship. Or that is at how I like to think of it.
I disagree and so does Spock. He mentioned how Khan had the intellect but lacked the experience of commanding a federation vessel. The small victories he was able to achieve was thanks to the Reliant's power. I will put it this way, if Captain Sisko was in charge instead of Khan, the Enterprise would have been reduced to nothing more than a fine powder.
Admiral: "Congratulations Ensign, you finished Starfleed Academy. Now put on your red uniform. Until the Dominion War is over, you will be surving on the USS Titan, a Miranda Class Starship. Me: 👀 "what?!? a Red Shirt AND a Miranda Class Starship.. here is my resignation, good bye"
Hey guys, Captain Foley here. Sorry about this but it appears that I make a mistake on the stats near the beginning I state that the height is 87 meters, but in fact the statistics on the side are correct at 67 meters. I apologize.
In my mind the phasers on Reliant and Enterprise are type 1 phasers being fired as a type 3 in gatling mode as referenced in Star Fleet Battles. Explains the fact that neither Reliant or Enterprise was destroyed straight away as well as the pulsing of the phasers on both ships. I know it's not cannon, but it makes more sense to me.
Hey Capt. Foley... was watching The Wrath of Khan this evening and something stuck out to me. At the 25 minute mark of the movie, as Kirk is boarding the Enterprise... the transfer shuttle docks to the wrong port-side airlock. the interior used for the arrival scene takes place in a torpedo bay (fwd torpedo bay) as you can see the torpedo sled/gangway immediately to the left when Kirk steps aboard. has this ever been noticed before??
I hate too have to point this out…. It was Harve Bennett that was the person who approved the wrongly "upside down" reliant sketches. Not Gene Roddenberry. At this point Roddenberry nothing to do with the Star Trek movies.
Good to know. I swore I read Gene Roddenberry. Must have it confused with something else. We do so much research for these sometimes we stumble a bit. Good catch.
I think I have an idea as to why the Enterprise's phasers were pulsing in The Wrath of Khan were because of the damage to the warp drive and the Phasers are pulling some power from the battery.
I actually thought that because they were more powerful that pulsing the phasers helped to keep the emitters from overheating and potentially burning out.
A nice episode! I have to admit, at this point, I haven't looked through all your videos so I might have missed something. But, if you haven't done it already, I would really really really like to see a video that is completly commited to the starfleets tactics in the shown battles of various shows. I mean, starship combat is not the main point of this universe, but it is also a very important part of it. And there are just some questions I have that could be answered in such a video, for example regarding the miranda class as cannonfodder. In so many episode starship captains of starfleet to basically anything to save their crew and ship, in the federation there are very strict values of moral and ethics. how come that they use so desperate or completly cruel tactics like throwing waves and waves of older ships against an enemy? In reality it might just have been for drama and effects but you guys have both, talent and background knowledge to really fill those wholes up with incanon explanations that make me feel better about a lot of things going on in the star trek universe that I didn't understand or even thought about before!
Stuart Foley Did you look at the FASA stats regarding this ship? While this vessel could function as a warship,it was primarily a research vessel. In addition,the vessel was nowhere near as powerful as the Enterprise. Khan had to use treachery to inflict the damage he did and, in a straight up fight,the Enterprise would murder the Reliant. The Enterprise has more powerful more numerous phasers with longer range. So long as the Enterprise keeps its front toward the Reliant,there's no contest. The only advantage Reliant has over the Enterprise is a rear firing torpedo.
I love the Reliant. I was always confused though on what kind of ship this was suppose to be. At the beginning of Star Trek II it seemed to be a science vessel, but when it engaged the Enterprise later in the movie, it seems more like a warship.
I always took it to be a multimission cruiser like the constitution. The Miranda is actually slightly bigger than the Constitution, and both are smaller than the Constellation.
My absolute favorite federation ship. Very aggressive look when coming at you. I just like the compact design, would be easier to maneuver in tight spaces.
The problem I have with the Miranda is the roll bar with the photon launcher on top. Where is the magazine? You have to physically store photon torpedoes, and you probably want to do so close to the launcher. I don't think the roll bar allows for that.
One correction Captain Foley. The Miranda class was originally listed as a Heavy Frigate not a Light Cruiser per blue prints and origin posters back in the 80's and 90's.
I do need to correct you on one design, the Soyuz class, in the stats the hull was extended aft about 60 meters to accommodate a larger warp engine core and more powerful impulse engines and thrusters were added to increase its speed, shield capacity and maneuverability, the Soyuz class was considered a heavy cruiser and very resilient even though still technically a light cruiser. The Miranda class was such a successful design it was redesigned multiple times for many, many different roles and to this day the same basic design is still in use.
If we assume that warp-drive engine, ion thruster, gravitonic impulse engine, tachyonic sliptime engine are standard equipments on the ship, we needn't to judges variant types of ships.
I have a guess about why the “pulse phaser” look came about. The TOS phaser effect was essentially hand-drawn onto film and then composited with the scene negatives in an optical printer. It tended to look like a static beam that sometimes didn’t look like it was moving. Having the “pulse” effect gives the beam a more dynamic feel. The TMP-era Enterprise only ever fires phasers in Wrath of Khan, so it isn’t until TNG that we see phasers firing again from a Starfleet ship. By then, the special effects had got to the point where there’s that slightly textured “particle” texture in the phaser beam that gives it a sense of motion, so it could still look dynamic as a single beam. Personally, I love the Wrath of Khan phasers but hate the JJ phasers. There’s just a bit of difference in them to me somehow. Love your show!
+Randy Cable When the Okudas decided to change things, in sucking up to Rick Berman, prior to TNG, the mono-hulls were called Frigates, see the "Ships Of The Line" books, no longer published, beg or borrow a copy to peruse through. They used to be sold at conventions from 1983-1989 or via mail order. Technically, in TOS, those three 'lights' on the bow of the primary hulls were the main defector system, see the Franz Joseph books and others for reference, as the 'dish' was the main, downrange sensor only. In the Frigate classes, this also held true, but in the refits and new builds, it was generally accepted [in the 80s] that function was integrated into the main shield systems or on the 'roll bar' leading edge, depending on what you were reading from.
I actually have a 3d model of the Miranda/Avenger class starship with her warp engine nacelles above as she was originally designed...... I had always assumed that in this configuration the starship would still be a Miranda class as a variant or sub class.... Would that be right?
I like the idea of the Miranda class being a light cruiser relatively equal in offensive and defensive capabilities to the Constitution class, rather than a more powerful battleship like this Avenger class. I always considered the reason the Enterprise was always at a tactical disadvantage in the battles with Kahn is because of Kahn's initial sucker punch to the Enterprise in the first encounter, rendering the Enterprise essentially crippled. It didn't seem like these phaser discharges from the pylons on the Mirander were particularly more powerful than the Enterprises own phaser fire in the film either.
Thats what im wondering hmm perhaps mabey that roll bar was one big dish but i noticed that shape on top of the torpedo launcher mabey that is a deflector dish shape perhaps either unfinished or unused on the design or in the design sketches.
I thought the Miranda class starship and its variants' (at least the armed ones) primary mission was to patrol the Klingon/Federation Neutral Zone. The Miranda class has approximately the same fire power of the Constitution class starship, but can be produced faster. This was important because the Klingon Empire had more cruiser class warships than the Federation at the time.
Because there is some classes that need this done to it. Like why one earth, did the Dakota class come into being or the Hope for that matter. Now there is a question that has to be asked with the Ares Class being shown are these the descendents of that line of ship or what happens when the Ares class in peace time Federation.
I really don't get the complaints about the pulse phasers... Especially in JJ, as that was one of the better ideas they came up with. Literally using the phasers as a point-defense system to shoot down incoming projectiles. That was great, and something I've always felt Star Trek needed. It adds a depth to the engagements that simply wasn't there before. Having ships basically allow themselves to be hit over and over without any way to deflect the incoming shots is ridiculous. As we see repeatedly throughout the series, shields do not give total protection. Ships still shake, things can still overload and explode. Using the pulse phasers to basically protect the ship from attack is brilliant, and I really don't see anything wrong with it.
the problem was JJ has no understanding of science and it a oh lets make it look flashing moron. Energy weapons can not properly intercept energy weapons, Thus you NEED an energy barrier using the same Form of Energy to block it. Shooting down incoming torpedoes YES, shooting incoming energy blasts that are SLOWED down a dramatic amount for teh benefit of watching them on TV no that doesnt happen. Phaser pulses are traveling at Warp 1, please remember that (AKA the speed of light respectively ), Gene Roddenberry would shot JJ for what he did.
The JJ phasers are never intercepted by other phasers, but the Kelvin and Enterprise both defended themselves against Nero's torpdedos by firing their pulse-phasers in a defensive manner.
It's something along the lines of having sounds in the vacuum of space. Energy projectiles aren't meant to be squirted out (pulses), instead in a continuous line (laser/phaser). If you truly don't get the "complaints" then I'm thinking you're more into the likes of Star Wars than Star Trek. Yeah, JJ abrams is who you've been waiting for.
When you talk about the Miranda class (some versions of it) as a heavily armed, almost overpowered, pulse-phaser-carrying, dedicated battlecruiser; compare it to the Defiant; then show the TOS-style digital model of the Miranda class, I can see a design similarity there. It's as if, in canon and in real life, a Miranda-type ship was used as the basis for the Defiant design, with nacelles pulled up against the saucer section and the deflector(?) popped on the front. I wonder if that was the case in RL? I guess I've got to watch more Trekyards vids...
Tends to happen to old ships that stay in service long beyond their intended run time. But the fact that it was still in service by that time is a testament to how well designed it was.
Miranda is IMO the most logical and practical design of all of the Federation ships from a naval architecture standpoint. As originally conceived by the Avenger Class, they were essentially combat ships tasked with patrolling and protecting Federation space while the Constitutions explored and provided diplomatic and scientific services. I personally hated the way the class became downgraded in function and maligned in their capabilities as depicted in the TNG era; in their prime the Mirandas I feel were really the backbone of the Federation fleet; far more numerous than any other class with a clean, simple, elegant design that allowed a considerable degree of mission flexibility, ready adaptability and easy upgradability. A beautiful design for a most capable vessel.
I would also like to point out that the Constitution-class Enterprise-A also had its saucer section breached by a photon torpedo hit from Chang's Bird of Prey in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. I really don't think the reputation the Miranda-class has of always getting blown up is accurate. The Miranda-class was actually better than the Constitution-class, yet more compact and maneuverable.
Calling it a TOS ship is stretching it, because it didn't exist before Wrath of Kahn. There was a light cruiser in the FASA games, but it was a Boxy looking ship that looked nothing like the Reliant.
You guys INTENTIONALLY avoided talking about the lack of a deflector dish. LoL Also, Delta flyer wins. Period. Fly underneath the Reliant. Done. It's got a soft belly. It's got nothing going on underneath. All the same, I enjoy the show.
The Reliant designs were never given to Gene Roddenberry by that time he had been demoted to creative consultant and Harve Bennett was made executive producer and stayed in that job until after Star Trek 6 guys. go watch the extra features on your blu-rays and DVDs its all right there that is were I got this information.
Hate to break it to you guys but a pulse phaser would cause more damage more quickly then a continuous beam. Think of real world examples for instance a Hamer - drill or impact-gun. Take a regular drill to concrete and you won't get far. You need a hammer drill which turns while pulsing the get through.
I had no idea there was a TOS era version of the Mirander class! I assumed that it was designed in the refit era and had the refit design nacelles as a result
+katakisLives In "Ships of the Line" they were called Frigates [look the old naval term up] there were the Surya, of which the Avenger Class Heavy Frigates came from and the Coventry class and a couple others. {going to have to dig through storage to drag my copy out}
Richard Collingsworth Ah! I see! I know about Frigates but more from being interested in world war one and two ships! and how their design influenced classic 70's and early 80s space ships! the huge kind that pan past the camera really slowly to give you a sense of scale.
Looking at earlier documents and the way Reliant is presented, versus the way Miranda-class ships as a whole are treated in TNG and later, I think there was a fundamental difference in intent. The Reliant is smaller than Enterprise, but carries an armament which might be considered superior to the Constitution-class cruiser. The saucer-based phaser weaponry is near identical, and the rollbar contains a) the heavier tube-like phaser cannons and b) dual fore and aft photon torpedo launchers. Since lighter vessels were often restricted to phaser weaponry only, we can assume that this vessel was specifically designed for combat. Based on this, I think the original intent of the Miranda (Avenger) was that of a destroyer-type ship. Lighter, faster, unusually heavy armaments for its size, reduced capacity in most other areas. She's not an explorer like Enterprise. She doesn't have the multimission profile of the Constitution. She can dogfight hard, perform basic scouting, and probably formed the backbone of Starfleet's backfield defense. Would explain why they had so many of these things moving into the late 24th century. However, TNG really tried to divest itself of the wartime aura of the movie-era, combined with influences like Starfleet Battles and similar wargaming accents, and the Miranda was a problem. She's iconic at this point, she's not The Enterprise (TM), so showing it on-screen with the Galaxy class isn't going to cause problems (ever wonder why you NEVER see another Connie again?), and by simply removing the rollbar, you have a lightly-armed, easily-recognized ship you can put in peril, have abandoned, whatever. But a destroyer? Tut tut. That's a light cruiser to you. And so the de-fanged Miranda was fleshed out to provide the ships required by the new narrative. I don't consider the Soyuz to be a Miranda variant, but a new ship built off the structure of the other. There's too much added on for it to be the 'same' ship.
something little know to alot of trekky fans is how alot of ships that sail the world really work, and how it would really work in the Federation as well. The ships would NEVER be a cookie cutter design, you have a basic hull design, but changes to one ship versus another ship would ALREADY start as you are building the very hull itself. Real World Example, during world war two you would have several Fletcher class Destroyers lined up and not a single one of them with the same weapons load out and placements.. yet ALL the same Hull design ( AKA Class ) The same would apply to a light cruiser design like the Miranda some would be more cargo/transport some more fleet escort with more weapons less cargo space. One may be refit to deploy mines and escort, while another to Sweep for mines and escort
Except that Federation shipyards utilize a lot more standardization including replication in their construction techniques. not to mention they have a lot more practice at this, seeing as they field on the order of 10 to 100 times the number of capital ships as the US Navy, even in WW2. It's possible, even likely that the Miranda class was specifically designed as a modular, multirole cruiser and that variants were part of the original roadmap for the class. But that's in-universe thinking. I was referring more to the differences in presentation between Wrath of Khan and TNG.
The jj phasers are more than star wars weapons and don't make any sence when you think that the original series takes place after that and the technology is different and to a kind of older
I don't think the pulses are necessarily stronger, I think they are just simply faster. As for the ship in DS9 I think it's just that the Jem Hadar ships are just much more powerful.
Excellent. how about coverage /analysis on the mysterious 14th century promellian menthar war? unfortunately there are no renderings of the menthar ships but of only the Promellian battlecruiser Cleponji as it was the only relic left from a disastrous war that destroyed both species and their worlds indicating these two had some serious firepower. as an artist i draw and paint i would be happy to help as I do drawings of alien ships of my design not of the trek universe.
Although its not the best game startrek has ever had legacy had some interesting ship designs for both TOS and the enterprise eras itd be nice if you guys did some vids on some of those
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Glad someone else mentioned the lack of a deflector. This is one of my favorites. It's the only Federation ship that can rotate in it's own footprint. It's important for presenting the portrait to the enemy you want and positioning your weapons.
USS RELIANT one of the must beautiful but underrated and forgotten ship 😢😢😢 my favorite ship
This was interesting. In Star Trek Starfleet Command the Miranda-class was really kick ass. It had all of the firepower of a heavy cruiser and all the mobility of a destroyer. The Miranda-class actually served longer than the Constitution-class Enterprise-A style ship. Pretty impressive and better than the Enterprise-A in a lot of ways. It was the Cat's meow in its hay day, but it couldn't stack up to The Next Generation era of ships.
It was one of the bast damn ships you could have in Starfleet Command. As you said, it was classified as a light cruiser, handled as well as a destroyer and had the firepower to match most heavy cruisers. It was kind of a bummer having to replace it with something bigger due to how the campaign worked.
if Kirk had listened to Saviik and put the shields up that movie would have ended at 45 minutes. :@)
marcboss6 yop, because i dont quite believe this light cruiser with less space to fit a big warpcore, therefor having less energy, could as spock said "outgun" the good ol' conny refit
Although it actually encloses more volume than the constitution
Great episode guys. Interesting angle or discussion concept. For many of us, the draw is the technology and design of ships that make up the Federation. I was drawn to your video as I'm building a Miranda class and am always looking for comments and details to better accurarize my model. Keep up the good work.
Awesome job guys! I love it!
🖖😎👍Very cool and very well done and very informative indeed guys 👌.
STII Pulse lasers are the best phasers in the entire catalog. Its a shame theyre not used more often.
they are the most realistic of the phasers systems if you are going for a battlecruiser, as you want Large fields of fire the most coverage and highest chance percentage of hit per watt of power used, that is Pulse not Beam
If i remember correctly, the Avenger class was the heavy combat ship, thus it had photon torpedos, the miranda class didn't have photon torpedos, the mega phasers being the equivlent of torpedo launchers and it was more or less designed to replace the single engine saladin class in the destroyer/scout role.
The Miranda Class did have photon torpedoes. They were fired from the torpedo launcher at the top of the rollbar.
Seeing the Miranda class in the Dominion war, is like seeing the first steam ships in WW2. Chronologically speaking anyways.
Triple expansion engine steam ships. The top of the line ships were oil boiler-turbine steam ships.
Mirranda class is my favourite ship design by far. You forgot to mention it apeared as the Uss Saratoga twice both with very different registry numbers. Once in Startrek 4 (with no spoiler or roll bar)when it got shut down by the whale probe. Then Later in DS9 when it appeared as Uss Saratoga (new regitration an roll bar) where it faught at Worf 359. :-) dunno why but I thought it was worth a shout out :-)
The Miranda class; Redshirts in ship form.
I thought there was no TOS version, and the Miranda was build from scratch based on the Constitution refit. I read that somewhere a long time ago.
+Pri yon Joni That was always my take too. That the Miranda had come out post Enterprise Refit.
Also, as far as it was ever inferred in my head, the Enterprise was the first ship (refit) of her kind. That's why she was the ship to go against V'ger, because she was caring the absolute best that Starfleet could muster.
The Enterprise was the only ship in interception range of V'Ger.
Hey Captain Foley and Commander Cockings
USS Enterprise didn't need rearward firing Photon torpedoes because she would never run from a fight
and show her ass to the enemy.
Hehe
Thanks for cool video on the Miranda class. First time I saw this ship was in Wrath of Kahn which i first saw in a German
movie theater when i was stationed in ( West Germany ) in US Army. Was interesting to see it all in German.
" Star Trek II: Der Zorn Des Kahn "
Even a movie era Miranda could take out a Delta flyer. Even though its newer, its much to small to go toe to toe with a miranda class. It's like a modern Mark 5 special ops Naval craft going against a WW2 battleship. The Delta Flyer is just not designed to take on a ship 10-15 times its mass.
according to the starship spotter, the miranda's roll bar mounted phasers were fed directly off of the primary plasma feeds for the warp nacelles which produced a much heavier hitting phaser. they called it an omi-directional pulsephaser pulse phaser, which in TMP were about equal to Type VIII. so in TNG they would be about equal to Type IXs.
The Reliant/ Miranda class starship is one of my favorite in Star Trek. I've never seen the TOS version before. I really do like that very much as well.
Personally I like the Miranda class ship not a big bad warship but as a less potent ship. Khan was badass because he was smart opportunist. Not because of his ship. Or that is at how I like to think of it.
I disagree and so does Spock. He mentioned how Khan had the intellect but lacked the experience of commanding a federation vessel. The small victories he was able to achieve was thanks to the Reliant's power.
I will put it this way, if Captain Sisko was in charge instead of Khan, the Enterprise would have been reduced to nothing more than a fine powder.
Admiral: "Congratulations Ensign, you finished Starfleed Academy. Now put on your red uniform. Until the Dominion War is over, you will be surving on the USS Titan, a Miranda Class Starship.
Me: 👀 "what?!? a Red Shirt AND a Miranda Class Starship.. here is my resignation, good bye"
Hey guys, Captain Foley here. Sorry about this but it appears that I make a mistake on the stats near the beginning I state that the height is 87 meters, but in fact the statistics on the side are correct at 67 meters. I apologize.
I really like the more compact and "tucked in" design of the Mirandas.
In my mind the phasers on Reliant and Enterprise are type 1 phasers being fired as a type 3 in gatling mode as referenced in Star Fleet Battles. Explains the fact that neither Reliant or Enterprise was destroyed straight away as well as the pulsing of the phasers on both ships.
I know it's not cannon, but it makes more sense to me.
the constitution read outs was were the relient's suffering from secondary hull envy
Hey Capt. Foley... was watching The Wrath of Khan this evening and something stuck out to me. At the 25 minute mark of the movie, as Kirk is boarding the Enterprise... the transfer shuttle docks to the wrong port-side airlock. the interior used for the arrival scene takes place in a torpedo bay (fwd torpedo bay) as you can see the torpedo sled/gangway immediately to the left when Kirk steps aboard. has this ever been noticed before??
One of my all time favorite ships
I couldn't locate a Trekyards for the NCC-1701 refit or the A model. Is the Miranda class(Reliant) more powerful than the Enterprise in Wrath of Khan?
Very comparable. And we have t don't the refit Enterprise yet. We are doing it as a Legends episode soon.
way fun! good job. :)
I hate too have to point this out…. It was Harve Bennett that was the person who approved the wrongly "upside down" reliant sketches. Not Gene Roddenberry. At this point Roddenberry nothing to do with the Star Trek movies.
Good to know. I swore I read Gene Roddenberry. Must have it confused with something else. We do so much research for these sometimes we stumble a bit. Good catch.
I think I have an idea as to why the Enterprise's phasers were pulsing in The Wrath of Khan were because of the damage to the warp drive and the Phasers are pulling some power from the battery.
I actually thought that because they were more powerful that pulsing the phasers helped to keep the emitters from overheating and potentially burning out.
Another greatly entertaining video guys. Keep em coming.
A nice episode! I have to admit, at this point, I haven't looked through all your videos so I might have missed something. But, if you haven't done it already, I would really really really like to see a video that is completly commited to the starfleets tactics in the shown battles of various shows. I mean, starship combat is not the main point of this universe, but it is also a very important part of it. And there are just some questions I have that could be answered in such a video, for example regarding the miranda class as cannonfodder.
In so many episode starship captains of starfleet to basically anything to save their crew and ship, in the federation there are very strict values of moral and ethics. how come that they use so desperate or completly cruel tactics like throwing waves and waves of older ships against an enemy?
In reality it might just have been for drama and effects but you guys have both, talent and background knowledge to really fill those wholes up with incanon explanations that make me feel better about a lot of things going on in the star trek universe that I didn't understand or even thought about before!
We do intend to make an episode of Treknology on the tactics of Starfleet so definite stay tuned.
Stuart Foley Did you look at the FASA stats regarding this ship? While this vessel could function as a warship,it was primarily a research vessel. In addition,the vessel was nowhere near as powerful as the Enterprise. Khan had to use treachery to inflict the damage he did and, in a straight up fight,the Enterprise would murder the Reliant. The Enterprise has more powerful more numerous phasers with longer range. So long as the Enterprise keeps its front toward the Reliant,there's no contest. The only advantage Reliant has over the Enterprise is a rear firing torpedo.
Just for laughs, look up the noncanon Avenger, based off the same hull style. MUCH different outcome.
Though in Star Trek Online theres already a ship of that class :3.
Post movie tos vs. post tng. Maybe an homage?
I love the Reliant. I was always confused though on what kind of ship this was suppose to be. At the beginning of Star Trek II it seemed to be a science vessel, but when it engaged the Enterprise later in the movie, it seems more like a warship.
I always took it to be a multimission cruiser like the constitution. The Miranda is actually slightly bigger than the Constitution, and both are smaller than the Constellation.
I've always wondered about the lack of a navigational deflector dish on the Reliant?
Any thoughts?
My absolute favorite federation ship. Very aggressive look when coming at you. I just like the compact design, would be easier to maneuver in tight spaces.
I have always thought of the Miranda as the within the borders utility ship. No secondary hull like the longer ranged designs.....
The problem I have with the Miranda is the roll bar with the photon launcher on top. Where is the magazine? You have to physically store photon torpedoes, and you probably want to do so close to the launcher. I don't think the roll bar allows for that.
One correction Captain Foley. The Miranda class was originally listed as a Heavy Frigate not a Light Cruiser per blue prints and origin posters back in the 80's and 90's.
I do need to correct you on one design, the Soyuz class, in the stats the hull was extended aft about 60 meters to accommodate a larger warp engine core and more powerful impulse engines and thrusters were added to increase its speed, shield capacity and maneuverability, the Soyuz class was considered a heavy cruiser and very resilient even though still technically a light cruiser.
The Miranda class was such a successful design it was redesigned multiple times for many, many different roles and to this day the same basic design is still in use.
If we assume that warp-drive engine, ion thruster, gravitonic impulse engine, tachyonic sliptime engine are standard equipments on the ship, we needn't to judges variant types of ships.
Miranda Class, the Redshirt of all Star Fleet class ships. When ever you see one you know either it was dead or the whole crew ended up dead.
I have a guess about why the “pulse phaser” look came about. The TOS phaser effect was essentially hand-drawn onto film and then composited with the scene negatives in an optical printer. It tended to look like a static beam that sometimes didn’t look like it was moving. Having the “pulse” effect gives the beam a more dynamic feel. The TMP-era Enterprise only ever fires phasers in Wrath of Khan, so it isn’t until TNG that we see phasers firing again from a Starfleet ship. By then, the special effects had got to the point where there’s that slightly textured “particle” texture in the phaser beam that gives it a sense of motion, so it could still look dynamic as a single beam. Personally, I love the Wrath of Khan phasers but hate the JJ phasers. There’s just a bit of difference in them to me somehow. Love your show!
It use to be designated a heavy frigate. When did the classification change ? The light frigate did not have the overhead photon launchers.
+Randy Cable
When the Okudas decided to change things, in sucking up to Rick Berman, prior to TNG, the mono-hulls were called Frigates, see the "Ships Of The Line" books, no longer published, beg or borrow a copy to peruse through.
They used to be sold at conventions from 1983-1989 or via mail order.
Technically, in TOS, those three 'lights' on the bow of the primary hulls were the main defector system, see the Franz Joseph books and others for reference, as the 'dish' was the main, downrange sensor only. In the Frigate classes, this also held true, but in the refits and new builds, it was generally accepted [in the 80s] that function was integrated into the main shield systems or on the 'roll bar' leading edge, depending on what you were reading from.
Great Episode!!!
I actually have a 3d model of the Miranda/Avenger class starship with her warp engine nacelles above as she was originally designed...... I had always assumed that in this configuration the starship would still be a Miranda class as a variant or sub class.... Would that be right?
It was not Gene's desk it was Harve Bennett according to Harve Bennett on the Collectors DVD of Star Trek II.
the bridge for the Saratoga was actually a different configuration from the standard Miranda class.
I like the idea of the Miranda class being a light cruiser relatively equal in offensive and defensive capabilities to the Constitution class, rather than a more powerful battleship like this Avenger class. I always considered the reason the Enterprise was always at a tactical disadvantage in the battles with Kahn is because of Kahn's initial sucker punch to the Enterprise in the first encounter, rendering the Enterprise essentially crippled. It didn't seem like these phaser discharges from the pylons on the Mirander were particularly more powerful than the Enterprises own phaser fire in the film either.
So where is the Navigation Deflector on the Miranda Class that was the Reliant
Thats what im wondering hmm perhaps mabey that roll bar was one big dish but i noticed that shape on top of the torpedo launcher mabey that is a deflector dish shape perhaps either unfinished or unused on the design or in the design sketches.
Rewatching the episodes :D
The Miranda was after (Constitution 1700-172_ [naval construction code], Miranda 1860-something)
I thought the Miranda class starship and its variants' (at least the armed ones) primary mission was to patrol the Klingon/Federation Neutral Zone. The Miranda class has approximately the same fire power of the Constitution class starship, but can be produced faster. This was important because the Klingon Empire had more cruiser class warships than the Federation at the time.
Any thoughts on the Bozeman variant from TNG Cause and Effect?
Sean Gallagher I think that was named a Soyuz-Class starship if i'm not mistaken. :)
Avenger as a follow up to the Ares Class.
Because there is some classes that need this done to it. Like why one earth, did the Dakota class come into being or the Hope for that matter. Now there is a question that has to be asked with the Ares Class being shown are these the descendents of that line of ship or what happens when the Ares class in peace time Federation.
Avenger has the most weaponry of the variants. The Work Bees had attachments to turn them into Killer Bees.
my konami uss reliant just arrived in the mail today so excited I thought id rewatch this episode so I can get the specs on my new starship
I really don't get the complaints about the pulse phasers... Especially in JJ, as that was one of the better ideas they came up with. Literally using the phasers as a point-defense system to shoot down incoming projectiles. That was great, and something I've always felt Star Trek needed. It adds a depth to the engagements that simply wasn't there before. Having ships basically allow themselves to be hit over and over without any way to deflect the incoming shots is ridiculous. As we see repeatedly throughout the series, shields do not give total protection. Ships still shake, things can still overload and explode. Using the pulse phasers to basically protect the ship from attack is brilliant, and I really don't see anything wrong with it.
Plus what kind of technological advancement is needed for pulse phasers? Just turn them on and off really quick.
+DrewLSsix
The type of innovation has been around since the first word war.
the problem was JJ has no understanding of science and it a oh lets make it look flashing moron. Energy weapons can not properly intercept energy weapons, Thus you NEED an energy barrier using the same Form of Energy to block it.
Shooting down incoming torpedoes YES, shooting incoming energy blasts that are SLOWED down a dramatic amount for teh benefit of watching them on TV no that doesnt happen.
Phaser pulses are traveling at Warp 1, please remember that (AKA the speed of light respectively ), Gene Roddenberry would shot JJ for what he did.
The JJ phasers are never intercepted by other phasers, but the Kelvin and Enterprise both defended themselves against Nero's torpdedos by firing their pulse-phasers in a defensive manner.
It's something along the lines of having sounds in the vacuum of space. Energy projectiles aren't meant to be squirted out (pulses), instead in a continuous line (laser/phaser). If you truly don't get the "complaints" then I'm thinking you're more into the likes of Star Wars than Star Trek. Yeah, JJ abrams is who you've been waiting for.
When you talk about the Miranda class (some versions of it) as a heavily armed, almost overpowered, pulse-phaser-carrying, dedicated battlecruiser; compare it to the Defiant; then show the TOS-style digital model of the Miranda class, I can see a design similarity there. It's as if, in canon and in real life, a Miranda-type ship was used as the basis for the Defiant design, with nacelles pulled up against the saucer section and the deflector(?) popped on the front. I wonder if that was the case in RL? I guess I've got to watch more Trekyards vids...
you may need to update this for the new STO miranda class type ships. Its been updated as the Reliant class light cruiser.
The nicest ship with the centaur
So, Cap, are you getting the Official Starships Collection models too? Or are those other models?
can someone show me where is the deflector?
I think that the Miranda's are just Cannon Fodder in DS9.
Tends to happen to old ships that stay in service long beyond their intended run time. But the fact that it was still in service by that time is a testament to how well designed it was.
To be fair most ships took a hammering from dominion ships even D, Deridex and K,Tingas were torn apart.
Miranda is IMO the most logical and practical design of all of the Federation ships from a naval architecture standpoint. As originally conceived by the Avenger Class, they were essentially combat ships tasked with patrolling and protecting Federation space while the Constitutions explored and provided diplomatic and scientific services. I personally hated the way the class became downgraded in function and maligned in their capabilities as depicted in the TNG era; in their prime the Mirandas I feel were really the backbone of the Federation fleet; far more numerous than any other class with a clean, simple, elegant design that allowed a considerable degree of mission flexibility, ready adaptability and easy upgradability. A beautiful design for a most capable vessel.
I always thought the class was named after Miranda Jones from the TOS episode "Is There in Truth No Beauty"
In the Starfleet Academy Game, they are tough ships.
It's a good ship. I like the version they created. The roll-bar looks like a spoiler on a car..
I would also like to point out that the Constitution-class Enterprise-A also had its saucer section breached by a photon torpedo hit from Chang's Bird of Prey in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. I really don't think the reputation the Miranda-class has of always getting blown up is accurate. The Miranda-class was actually better than the Constitution-class, yet more compact and maneuverable.
What book are these pictures from?
the Miranda class refit/Reliant class has to be my favourite Starfleet ship
Calling it a TOS ship is stretching it, because it didn't exist before Wrath of Kahn. There was a light cruiser in the FASA games, but it was a Boxy looking ship that looked nothing like the Reliant.
You guys INTENTIONALLY avoided talking about the lack of a deflector dish. LoL
Also, Delta flyer wins. Period. Fly underneath the Reliant. Done. It's got a soft belly. It's got nothing going on underneath. All the same, I enjoy the show.
The Reliant designs were never given to Gene Roddenberry by that time he had been demoted to creative consultant and Harve Bennett was made executive producer and stayed in that job until after Star Trek 6 guys. go watch the extra features on your blu-rays and DVDs its all right there that is were I got this information.
Hate to break it to you guys but a pulse phaser would cause more damage more quickly then a continuous beam. Think of real world examples for instance a Hamer - drill or impact-gun. Take a regular drill to concrete and you won't get far. You need a hammer drill which turns while pulsing the get through.
Just noticed that the Miranda Class does not have a deflector dish. Why?
+R.G. Hunter
See above..........and try to borrow some of the out-of-print pro and fan reference works, if you can.
You guys are my new favorite channel! I wanna play with you!!
Didn't the Miranda have a tractor beam? the beam could be used to limit the maneuverability of the Delta Flyer. thus removing that advantage.
the miranda can also launch shuttle craft that are fast to and bring more targets to bear on it, but out of era compares are kinda cheap.
Ship being shown upside down happened with the original Enterprise (ref: "Making of Star Trek"). ;-)
Just a suggestion but in the descriptions it may be handy to just put the links to facebook etc in there for people to click
I had no idea there was a TOS era version of the Mirander class! I assumed that it was designed in the refit era and had the refit design nacelles as a result
+katakisLives
In "Ships of the Line" they were called Frigates [look the old naval term up] there were the Surya, of which the Avenger Class Heavy Frigates came from and the Coventry class and a couple others.
{going to have to dig through storage to drag my copy out}
Richard Collingsworth Ah! I see! I know about Frigates but more from being interested in world war one and two ships! and how their design influenced classic 70's and early 80s space ships! the huge kind that pan past the camera really slowly to give you a sense of scale.
katakisLives from diffent sources if read an older class had a refit like the connie. But they built new ships to the refit design.
Did they ever consider using warp engines as missiles?
Interesting xD Though I bet that roll bar is one big deflector dish :3..
That's essentially what a photon torpedo is. In essence it's just a small warp core, strapped to a warp engine, and something to tell it where to go.
Star Fleet Battles had basically Nacelle missiles they called drones. About the size of shuttle warp engines.
Looking at earlier documents and the way Reliant is presented, versus the way Miranda-class ships as a whole are treated in TNG and later, I think there was a fundamental difference in intent.
The Reliant is smaller than Enterprise, but carries an armament which might be considered superior to the Constitution-class cruiser. The saucer-based phaser weaponry is near identical, and the rollbar contains a) the heavier tube-like phaser cannons and b) dual fore and aft photon torpedo launchers. Since lighter vessels were often restricted to phaser weaponry only, we can assume that this vessel was specifically designed for combat. Based on this, I think the original intent of the Miranda (Avenger) was that of a destroyer-type ship. Lighter, faster, unusually heavy armaments for its size, reduced capacity in most other areas. She's not an explorer like Enterprise. She doesn't have the multimission profile of the Constitution. She can dogfight hard, perform basic scouting, and probably formed the backbone of Starfleet's backfield defense. Would explain why they had so many of these things moving into the late 24th century.
However, TNG really tried to divest itself of the wartime aura of the movie-era, combined with influences like Starfleet Battles and similar wargaming accents, and the Miranda was a problem. She's iconic at this point, she's not The Enterprise (TM), so showing it on-screen with the Galaxy class isn't going to cause problems (ever wonder why you NEVER see another Connie again?), and by simply removing the rollbar, you have a lightly-armed, easily-recognized ship you can put in peril, have abandoned, whatever. But a destroyer? Tut tut. That's a light cruiser to you. And so the de-fanged Miranda was fleshed out to provide the ships required by the new narrative.
I don't consider the Soyuz to be a Miranda variant, but a new ship built off the structure of the other. There's too much added on for it to be the 'same' ship.
something little know to alot of trekky fans is how alot of ships that sail the world really work, and how it would really work in the Federation as well.
The ships would NEVER be a cookie cutter design, you have a basic hull design, but changes to one ship versus another ship would ALREADY start as you are building the very hull itself.
Real World Example, during world war two you would have several Fletcher class Destroyers lined up and not a single one of them with the same weapons load out and placements.. yet ALL the same Hull design ( AKA Class )
The same would apply to a light cruiser design like the Miranda some would be more cargo/transport some more fleet escort with more weapons less cargo space.
One may be refit to deploy mines and escort, while another to Sweep for mines and escort
Except that Federation shipyards utilize a lot more standardization including replication in their construction techniques. not to mention they have a lot more practice at this, seeing as they field on the order of 10 to 100 times the number of capital ships as the US Navy, even in WW2.
It's possible, even likely that the Miranda class was specifically designed as a modular, multirole cruiser and that variants were part of the original roadmap for the class. But that's in-universe thinking. I was referring more to the differences in presentation between Wrath of Khan and TNG.
Also, pulse lasers cut better than continuous beam
Doesn't the Stuart guy look a little bit like one of the weyouns???
Note the red hue in the bridge light representing villainous intent.
The jj phasers are more than star wars weapons and don't make any sence when you think that the original series takes place after that and the technology is different and to a kind of older
Hey guys,
Consider the phasers in Balance of Terror, and they're more alike this design than in TNG onwards.
I like the version without the roll bar. Looks more sleek.
They Miranda's were blow up the most because she had the most sympathy.
She was pirated and was destroyed.
And she was beautiful.
RIP Sitak and Majestic.
The Miranda class looks to be either a frigate or a destroyer.
I don't think the pulses are necessarily stronger, I think they are just simply faster. As for the ship in DS9 I think it's just that the Jem Hadar ships are just much more powerful.
Cool video.
I was hoping they'd go further into the Soyuz class
we are doing follow up episodes about the variants, this was just the classic configuration.
Excellent. how about coverage /analysis on the mysterious 14th century promellian menthar war? unfortunately there are no renderings of the menthar ships but of only the Promellian battlecruiser Cleponji as it was the only relic left from a disastrous war that destroyed both species and their worlds indicating these two had some serious firepower. as an artist i draw and paint i would be happy to help as I do drawings of alien ships of my design not of the trek universe.
i agree she is a tough little ship she is my first command in star trek online i love my ship U.S.S. LANCASTER
no deflector !?
Although its not the best game startrek has ever had legacy had some interesting ship designs for both TOS and the enterprise eras itd be nice if you guys did some vids on some of those
Mega-awesome episode!
I like the name Avenger better than Miranda.
The delta flyer vs a Miranda class would be a good battle....but if the Delta flyer has a crappy pilot they would lose lol.
Is that spock mother name