2 minutes in and I'm blown away. I'm bookmarking the video. Gonna go watch the show and then finish this. Tha k you so much for the recommendation. wow.
@@cristheblob4020 It went well. Now they have to watch the epic Mecha/Military satires/criticism: Macross Plus GITS: SAC S1 Legend Of The Galactic Heroes MSG: 0083 Stardust Memory Macross Zero MSG: Char's Counterattack Neon Genesis Evangelion: TV Edit(the Director's Cut is heresy by a fraudulent co-creator)
That's the thing: you never see them actually witness much of anything outside the initial battle in the colony. They see the aftermath, but apart from the school being blown up (by their own self-defense force no less), they have no tangible connection to the fight. No one they knew got hurt or died. Al on the other hand basically got to watch his surrogate older brother and sister get into a life or death fight and never know the other was there. That would mess anyone up.
@@DrForrester87 ^This one got it 👌 Al was in the midst and saw the fighting first hand. We see the cost of his innocence at the end during the speech when he is the only one that starts crying his eyes out, and only the girl that teased him earlier sees that there's something wrong with him and goes to get a teacher, while his friends try to cheer him up thinking he's sad because the war ended.
"Don't cry, Al. Soon there'll be an even bigger war with even cooler mobile suits!" Just....man, what a way to twist the knife at the end there. The show sends such a powerful message, too. As much as I hate the idea of being bombed....I still like going to the air and space museum to see the cool fighter planes. What a hypocrite I am. Oh, and while I'm at it...I know we like to draw a lot of comparisons to Nazis, due to the obvious fascist tendencies and aesthetics, there's a lot of Imperial Japan in there, too. Much of the justification that Zeon use in starting their war has a great deal in common with how Japan propagandized itself to its civilians and how it justified declaring war on the Allies.
Yes. That second point is something I picked up ever since I first saw the original series, and maybe it’s because I’m half Korean-American and grew up with stories of Japanese atrocities during occupation and talking to American WW2 veterans, but I always felt that the ethnic nationalistic pride along with the military dictatorship felt very much like imperial Japan too.
Funny that the would be Axis and Allies did fought together for 55 days in China once. Imperial Japan and US even intervene in Siberia, a joint operation. What happened in 1919 that made Japan went brutal?
I think that Gundam Thunderbolt is interesting as it directly comments on the issue you mentioned at the start by going in the exact opposite direction as 0080. Al was someone who thought war was cool until being placed into one, however Thunderbolt's Io originally didn't like war until he started fighting in one and lost himself in it. Io is shown to be a psychopath who is having fun killing, which is meant to put a mirror up to the audience and make the audience consider if they are the similar for enjoying the on screen violence so much.
Thunderbolt was supposed to show a more nihilistic perspective of the war, unlike the other series which inspired hope. I wouldn't really call Io a psychopath as he is not really that. He is more of a disillusioned soldier who sees that war is not about fighting for a just cause nor is it for personal gain in military fame, but only about chaos and misery. He is aware of the true nature of war and combined with his daredevil personality and tragic past, he decided to do whatever the hell he wanted, deriving pleasure from living on the edge. Plus he still shows compassion to others and has a sense of comradery, which is not something common with psychopaths.
Io is not a psychopath as he is shown to care about his forces. He shows disgust at when bright eyed children are brought in as new MS pilots and you can see it takes a lot out of him. Io is ahead of the curb, he isn't self-righteous and he doesn't believe what he's doing is right unlike many of the other people in the war. They try to justify their actions as for the greater good, that's practically Zeons tagline, while Io cuts the bullshit and does what he wants
I think it really shows the war between zeon and the federation as a blurred line where either side will go to lengths to win. I.e cutting off their own limbs, using child soldiers, Allying with cultist. Not really showing a true hero. Io and daryl lorenz are both deranged killers. With Daryl still being the most sympathetic but just as war crazy with him blowing up ships full of people and going through hell just to destroy the gundam.
Io is not only bloodthirsty, but a complete creep. He uses a derogatory phrase on a person with disabilities, which makes him a bigot. Plus what makes him more deplorable is that he is a rich kid who enjoyed racing airplanes, but treats war like a sport. If that doesn’t make Io a schmuck who represents Federation elitism then I don’t know how anyone can defend his character and actions.
In the original series I always found it interesting how Gihren takes being compared to Hitler the same way a modern person would take being compared to Napoleon or Alexander the Great, that world war 2 is so distant in the memory of the people of that period that they've completely forgotten how horrific it was. The Universal Century George Santayana would be rolling in his grave.
If Mobile Suit Gundam is a deconstruction of the mecha genre, than 0080 is a deconstruction of Gundam itself and the real robot genre itself, more so than Evangelion. Although Gundam was inspired by WWII since the people that made it lived through that conflict, I wouldn't say that Zeon is necessarily full on space Nazis. Good people were in Zeon and they fought for their own independence from a corrupt government and they were willing to do anything for what they thought was a good cause, but it was the leaders that warped the ideals of Zeon and made a bad image for the people of that nation. There is a reason why Ghiren was compared to Hitler by his own father. Plus, take into consideration what the Federation did across many years, like the Titans and the modification of the UC charter, which would have spared the world from many wars. History is told by the victors and while Zeon did terrible things the Federation remained corrupt with mistakes swept under the rug for many years and neither the AEUG, Londo Bell, Laplace Box and Crossbone Vanguard couldn't change that.
I would also say that Gundam takes aesthetics from WWI as well, such as a reference to the Red Baron and WWI gas masks and draws from the Korean War and Vietnam War as the OYW is a limited war in its second phase much like the latter conflicts. Also, history is not written by the victors; that's just a rumor made in part by Lost Causers.
Zeon are full on nazis, even though they have some good people on their side that's the same as the nazis. It's a little shallow to assume that oh yes all those millions of Germans were all mega evil. Zeon is 1 to 1 with nazis because they believe that they are the superior people and should be the ones to decide the future of humanity. Their catchphrase 'Souls weighed down by gravity' is them calling all earthnoids inferior. Zeon itself deserves no sympathy, just in the same way WW2 Nazi Germany deserved no sympathy and got no sympathy. Yes, it was the failings and idocracy of the ruling world government that created zeon and nazi Germany. But that doesn't excuse them from the many atrocities they committed. The federation is a corrupt and shitty system but you'll notice they didn't go around wiping out half of humanity. It's the same as our world, every government is corrupt and does shady shit but that doesn't mean we should go out and try replace it with facism. The federation was made worse by the many wars and attacks it was put through by zeon and its successors. After having 2 colonies dropped it overhauled and reinstated mobile suit development and an elite unit to quell zeon activities. The titans would NEVER have existed without Zeon, and if we were to use your rationality, that would mean the federation is innocent of any titan wrong doings as Zeon was the cause for their creation. The federation really screwed up with the Titans as they gave them too much freedom and too much power which led to their downward spiral. Once the tide turned in favour of the AEUG, the feds jumped ship and this eventually led to Londo Bell, the group the Titans were supposed to be. Now to the federation's worst act, Laplace's Box. Or is it? Imo having Newtypes being treated as literally separate from the rest of humanity would have created more issues than anything as they're hardly an improvement. How many of the worst acts of war in the UC was led or carried out by Newtypes? The charter should have simply read that all spacenoids would have a say in the government. Not just a new breed of humanity. In the end, did any of this even matter when we reach Victory gundam? What was the point of all this conflict if nothing came of it? Laplace's box was opened and no one cared. UC is a cursed timeline
@@jeff3221 The quote according to Revil, "their souls are weighed down by gravity", means that the Federation, a liberal capitalist regime, is trapped in "archaic ways of thinking". This pertaining to the Federation believing that a series of space nations forming an "alliance of the sides" will lead to a type of anarchy in which the colonies will be armed camps. That's taken from the novelization. In a more nuanced view, the Titans would have existed even without the Zeon Deikun or the Zabis, because Liberal capitalist regimes are doomed to become fascist when the machinery of democracy fails them. AEUG's "revolution" achieved nothing. It lead to the Federation tetering toward the brink of fascism, which is evident when we hear Bright and Amuro discussing the invasion of civilians' privacy and implications of breaking up assembly and suppressing free speech. The Federation is clearly not worth having around. I'm advocating that fascism replaces liberalism though, as the latter is genocidal by design. Rather, the bigger picture is that, government should not exist at all. That I think is Tomino's ultimate message.
Actually the Zaku was based off of a way japanese bandits used to dress as. Sorta to compliment the samurai anesthetic of the gundam. There's pictures of it on Google.
glad someone mentioned this, the earth federstion are moreso nazis, esp with additions like the titans resembling the SS, and summing the entire UC as good guys v. nazis misses the entire message of the show that war is bad for all sides, this video constantly rings only half correct imo 😭
@@Mr_Movie_Fan when I got to the bit where he said something to the effect of "unicorn has a problem because it try's to humanize the zeon characters to much" and I rolled my eyes.
maybe I'm the weird one, but I've never taken in the anti-war messages from any of the gundam series I've watched, I've always take the other messages out of the series: Unicorn: how the actions from people born before have consequences that affect us too. And it's our job to live and thrive past those consequences. 00: an interesting story on how a united earth government, like in Star Trek, would be formed, and the challenges that exist to becoming a type I civilization. IBO: the importance of ripping yourselves off the very bottom. And the dangers of doing so forcefully.
The shows never try to be a full on ANti-War PSA but will include little details of problems of War. If you've watch the first series/ The first complication movie. The 16 year old main character who is the only person who can fly the Gundam, starts showing early stages of PTSD and just doesnt want to war anymore and a BIG plot point is that most of the army is dead and teenagers are now pilot war mechs, and the Generals are like "hey, we have children doing War, can we get Soliders to replace them" and the Army like "Nah, The Children are doing a fine job. Why give you men that we could use somewhere else while you have fine child soliders"
"I don't think there's been a Gundam anime with such a well articulated anti-war message as War in the Pocket" Well I guess the final episodes of the original Zeta show, some scenes of ZZ and F91 and most of 08th MS Team do as well of a job in articulating that message as 0080. Very nice video though, pretty underrated channel
Thank you! I've actually already seen Zeta, F91, and 08th MS Team prior to making this video, so me saying that War in the Pocket has the best anti-war messages in a Gundam anime isn't something I say in ignorance.
I also don’t think the Gundam story is supposed to be so unambiguous about who is the villain, despite the obvious resemblance between Nazi Germany and Zeon. I thought a major theme of the franchise was how both sides of the war are ultimately the “bad guy”.
Just saw this last night. Absolutely great series! Quality animation and proper character development. The story was a well done and didn't jump all over the place.
@@porchcomputer5170 I think you read the first part of what I wrote and just responded to that except. If you look to the end of my comment you would see that I have started going back to older series. With the series that this video is about having been one of the series to start me off on that path. Or in other words I'm not losing anything as I've learned the error of my ways. Lol.
@@RaidenPSX and Fist of the North Star, and Dragon Ball, and basically every amazing banger anime that defined the future of anime debuted in the 80s or 90s.
@@xblade149 You mean the one with the romeo-and-juliet love story where a character basically says "we're just as bad as they are" and a 17-year old is introduced with her top off? Kinda overrated if you ask me.
I don't really agree on Zeon being the bad guys, yes the Zabi family is terrible but so is the federation, and they always show us that all these soldiers are humans fighting for what they believe, that being the independence of Zeon and spacenoids, peace, revenge and so on, still a great video and it's always nice to see something from 0080
Agreed. The author does well explaining the anti-war aspects but forgets another major Gundam Theme, and that's people on both sides are simply doing what they think is right. The federation and zeon can both easily be painted as the "bad guys" depending on who the story follows.
You just earned a sub instantly. This is the exploration into the Gundam anti-war ideology I've been desperately searching for across the video essay RUclips space!! Great work man!! :)
Just here to say your ending climactic finish to your video essay cut to the audio of arguably the greatest Christmas song of all time deserves endless praise and that it legit gave me chills. Bravo
I wonder what happened to Al after this? And other characters in general. What were they doing during Unicorn? Did Al join the military, either Zeon or the Federation? What was Kou Uraki doing?
Al probably died during the neo zeon wars. The shonen trappings really hide how grimdark the UC is. Imagine if WWI, II, and Vietnam all happened in a 20 year timeframe.
iirc there was a "blink and you missed it" moment in CCA where a more adult-like Al and someone who looked like Chris in the final scene where Nu Gundam's Psychoframe turned green and engulfed the dropped colony
Absolutely. Great vid. Couldn’t agree more. It’s the best ever out of all Gundam. Very clear and conscience story that can be appreciated years later even if the tech looks dated.
I hope one of the next gundam entries goes really strong on the anti war message. Really show the the collateral damage not just the loses to the main ship.
And that piloting a suit would suck. Too many gundam fans want to pilot a mobile suit because they look cool and zip around. IBO didn't focus enough on its brutal scenes of MS cockpit deaths, they were there but no one really reacted to how awful it was. How many characters got shrapnel jammed through them from the cockpit collapsing after an attack? Or getting crushed between all that jagged metal. It gets worse in space because now you're in a clunky robot that can get attacked from 360 degrees and the only reliable way to detect a suit is with your eyes or short range sensors
@@jeff3221 Dude, it's grimdark Gundam (or at least it's TRYING to be). Of course gruesome deaths weren't going to solve anything. Besides, people have been seeing characters get brutalized in cockpits since Zeta (you can even see it happen in SEED). None of that has been enough to remove the appeal of entering a colossal titan of steel and fucking shit up (thank Lord), and I predict that it'll stay that way regardless of how much gore a new entry adds in.
@@laststrike4411 I can see the appeal but everytime there's been a POV from a grunt it looks like non stop panic. If there was no war then yeah giant fucking robot to fly around in
I like how the One year War OVA's have different perspective on the conflict Thunderbolt is about the hatred between both sides and how both can be evil and good in their own right 08th MS team is a personal story about hardship, struggle and brotherhood, as well as putting aside ideology for the sake of protecting those you love While War in the pocket takes a far more down to earth perspective about the civilian loss caught in the crossfire and as well as the naivety of youth during the war.
I agree. While my favorite is MS Gundam Trilogy and Char's Counterattack, 0080 War in the Pocket has a special place in my heart, rent free, for what it represents. Excellent video.
War in the Pocket destroyed me for the sole reason that if there wasn't a fucking war raging, maybe they could have been friends, Christina and Bernie belonged together and the ending is just pure tragedy, they didn't even know who was piloting the other MS!
Honestly, all Gundam anime up to this time, and even Gundam OVAs that came after based in the UC era were all good anti war stories. Issue is, the viewers. Gundam 0080 will always be a gem of the franchise because in satire form it mocks Gundam fans. I think it makes Gundam 0080 one of the best, and often #1 on most people's list of best Gundam OVA series because Alfred is "US" the fans. I've always noticed the anti war narrative of Gundam. It's always been why I love Gundam. I'm not a huge mech fan as I watch very few mech anime, except Gundam. Even then I normally just stick to UC Gundam anime, because like a Star Wars viewer I'm deeply invested in the universe. Gundam fans often seem to fail to realize basic narrative points of Gundam anime, and honestly Gundam 0080 deserves the praise it gets because it's meant to correct viewers. I mean some people actually believe Gundam 08th MS Team pushes a pacifist message, despite the fact the anime literally crushes that kind of wishful thinking like an egg benefit the protagonist' feet.
Feel free to elaborate on literally anything you said. Also, what about the last episode of MS 8th Team where Shiro and Aina successfully defect from their respective factions to live happily ever after?
@@laststrike4411 Defecting would imply they went over to another nation, they were deserters not defectors. Also episode 12 The Last Resort, was technically a follow up episode to a series that was already concluded. Shattering Mountain Part II was originally meant to be the ending to 08th MS Team, but for reasons that I've not so far come across, they decided to release one final episode, likely for similar reasons to why Onegai Teacher ended up getting a second ending episode after the OVA series also officially ended. So I would assume like Onegai Teacher it had something to do with fans wanting a more conclusive ending for the protagonist. It's why Episode 12 comes off more as short film more so than a general continuation of the OVA series. To be honest, I still think 08th MS Team is better, without that final episode as well. Either way, it still does not change the fact that the two protagonist attempts to do things their way, ended up in absolute failure. Both sides, still literally almost wiped each other completely out of existence and for the Zeons in particular, they were literally wiped out of existence. Shiros attempts to minimize casualties ended up being fruitless. Meanwhile Aina's attempts to find a peaceful solution also ended up in utter disaster for her own people because parties on both sides, had no interest in playing by their more pacifistic rules They were utter failures, and ironically I find it strange few people seem to realize that, and threw away everything, they had no choice but to become deserters as well because they pretty much both betrayed their own factions. If Aina joined Shiro she would of been a POW or worse, while Shiro likely would of found himself behind a firing squad to a point that even Captain Kojima likely couldn't of protected him, as someone was going to be blamed for the death of a General and he would of made a perfect scapegoat for what he did. So when you actually think about it, their desertion was a result of their failures, one they had no other choice but to take.
In retrospect in its really melancholic how the op and ed themes are. No epic bsttle mysic or grand sweeping orchestras just down to earth music for a show about the loss of innocence and realizing the realities of war.
This is what happens when you forget that the Federation put down spacenoid demonsatrations with guntanks. No, the Zeon weren't the good guys - but neither were the Federation. In the end, the future was in space, it was wrong to put Earth and countless lives through a grinder, and Anaheim Electronics are just as bad as Degwin Zabi. Also, the edgy aesthetic was cooler.
Yep, Zeon started with good intentions, but it was the zabis that twisted it to become the Nazi esque militant force it became (looking at you, ghiren) axis and neo Zeon was just a continuation of that, however we must understand that char, who was a founding member of AEUG, the only real „good faction“ in the show, got so much shit from the federation who were at that point even worse than Zeon (not excusing the colony drop, but sending a giant psycho gundam in your own civilian area and letting it go rampant or gassing your own colonies for „suspicion“ of Zeon remnants is pretty agregious) that he felt the only option to bring peace was to end the federation. And the sleeves are actually not as bad as neo Zeon, they tried their best to avoid civilian casualties as well as diplomacy
I just watched it. My gosh, the innocence in this series is too pure. I didn't want Berny to die at all, I was hoping for a new leaf and to not die for nothing but in the end, everything just had to be tragic. No one except our protagonist has learned anything and this whole story was hidden in a pocket, no one knew or could speak about what really went on and it boils me down with how secretive it was.
This is a great entry in the Gundam franchise and I wish it would get a Blu Ray release. I read somewhere that the novel version of 0080 ended differently but I can't find it.
Great video incapsulating most of my issues with Gundam. for something that aims to be realistic and show the life of soldiers there's just to much empathy on children with plot armor who get out of every situation virtually unpunished. (Like two days of brick for deserting and taking the Gundam with him) I do however think there's one major flaw that if followed would keep something from reaching it's potential. quote: "If you're going to make a sympathetic Zeon characterm their redemption arc should probably consist of deciding to not align themselves with space nazis." So you are saying a sympathetic Zeon soldier should always defect. Bernie is a Zeon soldier to the very end. He does not become a traitor. All he does to save the colony is attempt and destroy the Gundam. That does not undermine Zeons plans in any way. Because they want to nuke the colony to destroy the Gundam. He is loyal to his very last breath. There's a great example for this. And not just for a fictional space Nazi story with giant robots, but for actual World War 2. The movie "Das Boot". Noone onboard tries to defect or become a traitor in any other way. All of them are just soldiers. A redemption arc would ruin this movie. As seen in the current Series of Das Boot which is about to enter it's third season. Every "sympathic" German in that show defects to America, becomes involved with a black woman, has a same sex relationship with a leader of a rebel cell, etc. It feels so incredibly forced, it's hilarious.
What's wrong with Amuro's character arc? The point Tomino was getting across was that, if a 15-year-old had to fight everyday of the week, it would be akin to a child soldier. Amuro goes through an arc in which he is conscripted, dehumanized and brainwashed into serving as the very instrument of war that is the Gundam. To spell it out, Amuro becomes the Gundam, and loses his innocence as a result; especially as he spends time away from the Haro robot, which is a symbol of his innocence. While I agree with the idea that a redemption arc is not always best for Nazi characters, given how it is not always the case that a Nazi cannot always be redeemed, it is possible to make them sympathetic in terms of their origin story. In fact, a Nazi's origin story isn't to excuse their actions, but to reveal why they are all the more terrifying since they are human beings. E.g. like the manga Message to Adolf by Osamu Tezuka. Though, it is still possible to present soldiers in a fascist army as not buying into the kool-aid and just simply fighting for their own reasons.
@@CosmoShidan What's wrong with his arc is the fact there actually ARE childsoldiers even younger than that. And yes there are deserters among them. Or just going AWOL. You know what happens to them during wartime? Hint: It's not a Brightslap(TM) So to answer "What if a 15-year-old boy got pulled in to fight in a war and act like Amuro did?" He'd face an execution comando pretty soon.
@@Drachenhannes That doesn't really answer my question though. I should have said this before, but now is a good time to point out that, Tomino was attaching the Super Robot genre by exposing it as a glorification of war and state power. This is akin to Watchmen, as Alan Moore was pointing out how superheroes are enforcers of the status quo. So, my question still stands as the creator had created a satire that he succeeds at, and raises the question as to how the arc of his protagonist is wrong.
@@CosmoShidan Hey man. I'm sorry i never answered. Just stumbled on this video again and found my old comment. What i find "wrong" with the og Gundam is that, to my knowledge, Tomino wanted to show that there are good people on both sides. It falls flat when one side is a pale grinning mass with only a few esceptions, like Ramba. Then there is insubordination on every corner. On both sides. Noone seems to have a concept of rank and military structure. Amuro can do whatever the heck he wants. Steal millions worth of equipment and go AWOL with it only to get slapped in the face and a weekend of brick. The show wants to criticise yet has no idea what it is talking about. To me the lack of any semblance of how a soldiers daily life actually is and any basic understanding of action and consequences in a military make it toothless to me. Right now MS Gundam feels like someone criticizing osmething without understanding it in the first place.
It's no problem. BTW, I'm a little troubled by your opinions. You sort of miss the point as to why Amuro goes awol; it's because he doesn't want to be there in the first place. Tomino was also critiquing how in teen superheroes in Super Robot anime are like child soldiers, if they were forced to fight in a war against their will. Not to mention that, Tomino poses the question, what would it be like if giant robots existed in the real world and would the consequences be? He answers that question by demonstrating how mecha would be machines of war, and the consequences would be the cost would be human life. Also, the reason the Zeons fight each other than concentrating on fighting the Federation, is because they are based off of the Axis powers during WWII, and how they were an inefficient military machine, constantly bickering amongst one another. Not to mention that, Amuro Ray's treatment at the hands of Bright Noa is straight up child abuse, and dehumanization; this makes Bright a war criminal in this light. Especially considering how he's recruiting not only Amuro, but child soldiers as his crew as well. Again a war crime on his part, as well as General Revil. Speaking of Revil, he also complicit in the two war crimes, as he allows for the garrisoning of military bases in civilian areas, which is the war crime of using human shields. Plus, he also uses the White Base crew of child soldiers as human guinea pigs to breed newtype troops, as well as using Amuro to test the Gundam. One more war crime the Feds allow for is that they let their troops get away with ransacking towns and harassing civilians, and arresting and imprisioning civilians unlawfully. With that out of the way, Tomino was trying to show that the Federation and Zeon are two sides of the same coin; that they are both totalitarian, and that in war, totalitarianism has free reign. That and the Federation representing liberalism and Zeon as fascism are pretty much the same ideology since they desire power, all through mecha anime.
At 2:39 , when I first saw that in the Builder’s anime, it genuinely made me uncomfortable. Those guys in the bar unironically chanting “Sieg Zion” reminds me too much of the guys who are way too into Nazi imagery that it makes you wonder if they understand the atrocities committed and why holding them in reverence isn’t a good look.
While I dont nesccisalry love zeon, I dont hate them either. In fact I'd say I have more respect and empathy even to be conpletley honest with Zeon more than I do the federation. I dont like most of the Zabi family, and I more empathize with Zeon in General. They honestly feel more like underdogs to me more than anything. They feel like people I could route for to a certain degree. And you can call that whatever you want, but in nearly every Gundam series I have watched, I always route for the Rebels. When I first watched the original, and even to this day, I felt conflicted with Amuro Ray. Not becuase he had so much plot armor but becuase I hated how ignorant he was. He sees Zeon as nothing more than fascists, as the general public sees them. But nearly refuses to acknowledge that the earth Federation weren't any better. That before Zeon, the colonies were being oppressed by the Federation. I more than often come to empathize with the rebels, ergo Zeon, becuase they, the rebels, are usually the first ones who are determined enough to take the first step to make a change in the world. A step taken by them, that arguably without it, there would be no realization to the problem with the current system. The oppression done by the federation would most likely have not stopped, would never have been brought to the wider attention of the world, and would have gotten worse. I am not saying that all of Zeon are good people, and they are the end all be all for being "Heroes". OH MY GOODNESS OH MY DANG, that is not what I am saying. I do agree that dropping colonies on earth is wrong, and I always will that way, but the feeling of empathy comes generally from the empathy I have with people like, Zinnerman, Mrs. Loni, Marida, Bernie, and especially Char. People who cant let go of the past, not just becuase they lost, but becuase people they cared about, had to be sacrificed for a victory by the hands of a Gundam, or the federation in general, which in fact, never does improve things. You can disagree with me if you want, and keep calling Zeon "Space Nazi's," but my opinion still stands. I dont call Zeon the "Space Nazi's", I'd call most of the Zabi family, the Titans, and the federation before Zeon, "Space Nazi's." And you can keep defending the federation, but even to this day, as said in the latest "Hathaways Flash", the Federation hasn't changed, and in fact has gotten worse and more corrupt. But that's just my opinion. Probably due to my over empathizing with groups like Zeon, Tekkaden, Celestial Being, and other Rebel groups. When it's always the federation that wins, and nothing gets better, and the weak keep getting oppressed, and the earth still being polluted and taking advantage of, I cant helped but feel abit tired of it. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a story in which Zeon actually won a war, and a positive change came out of it.
@@CoreVin975 I know, its really just Gihren and Kycilia I hate. Degwin was 'okay', Sasro died, Dozle was alright just manipulated, Garma was a kid, and Mineva was just born.
@@rolandjaycutter3504 wait was it Degwin who killed his father when he was making peace with the federation, or was it Gihren? Is Gihren Degwins father?
@@CoreVin975 You got it backwards mate, Degwin was the father and patriarch of the Zabi Family, Gihren was the son that didn't flinch when his father compared him to Hitler.
Side 6 was run by the Riah Republic, not the EFSF. We saw EFSF's base and whole operation was top secret since Side 6 was a neutral colony. They were probably just keeping a low profile. :) It was also shown that there was friction between the Federation forces and side 6's Riah Republic. And we were shown how the police treated Christina Mackenzie despite her actions to save people.
It wasn't operational. And this was prior to the universal arms agreement so idk how many parts would be compatible. Bernie and Al spent a whole heap of time to get it barely running as well as getting parts off the Bartender. I think the Feds would have been more focused on their downed GM's than a busted Zaku with only a heat hawk
The main problem that the Gundam franchise has is that it tries to send the message of how bad war is, but war in reality often doesn't occur without reasons that just can't be peacefully resolved. Even worse, Gundam series usually give very good reasons for war happening. The closest to getting the message right is probably Gundam SEED in which the war exists for basically no reason. But that still fails because the reasons given for the war are the opposite of how humans would react to the ability to give their children great futures.
So gundam wing does this thing in the middle of the show where the protagonists all get lost and struggle to figure out their next moves. While the show itself loses focus as well and gets kind of confusing, I think that it actually works thematically because it highlight how warfare is a confusing mess where people lose focus and struggle on figuring out what to do next. Also it's better than G Reco.
I think giant robot anime is more overtly anti war is bc the creators were born around wo2 which was terrible for Japan and were living in the cold war Era where the possibility a wo3 was very real
The most poignant part is at the end of the series where absolutely nothing was achieved by any of the characters; the conflict is ultimately resolved by something coming out of complete left field. For all their trials and sacrifices, the characters all ended up as little more than a footnote in history. and I don't think anything else has illustrated the pointlessness of War before or since then
I thought War in the Pocket was just a walk through the park until shit started happening. Just started watching UC and I guess more heartaches are coming my way
@4:51 I have to completely disagree. A redemption arc should not always be a requirement to writing a Nazi character, because when writing into their history, I think it's best for the audience to sympathize with them from how they ended up in their position from youth, until they reach adulthood, and realize there is no turning back for them. The latter portion of humanizing a Nazi character would imo make the audience come to empathize with them as adults, but then find their actions most revolting, and thus faces catharsis. Once again, it's the same logic in how Sir Anthony Hopkins portraying Hitler in The Bunker where the drugged, collapsing Ahab-like tyrant appears sympathetic, but it is because he is a human being that makes him so horrifying. Another example of a similar Nazi character who is sympathetic from their youth, but then becomes one we come to empathize why he does what they do and yet are horrifying because they are human, is Adolf Kaufman from Osamu Tezuka's Message to Adolf, in which he goes through the same arc as I described, but ends up facing catharsis.
It's an old video, but gotta say that Zeon = space Nazis is a very reductive way of viewing at it. Yes, i know that's the aesthetics the show gave them, but it's also the only opposing force to the federation, so as a revolutionary movement there is a lot of types of characters fighting for Zeon. As happens with the Federation, the Titans are also space nazis
You kind of lose the ability to characterize them as anything else when you have the figureheads chattin' about being like Hitler and casually committing genocide. The soliders don't realize how far the fascism goes probably, but that doesn't make Zeon as a whole less fascist.
@@hydrocosmo i pointed that out because at some points in the review he talks about characters fighting in Zeon and says something like "they are fighting for the nazis, they are morally wrong", and that's kinda dumb, because a space anarchist might end fighting in zeon because it is the only major revolutionary movement in this universe. in fact, i would say that Zeon is more akin to commies than nazis, Titans are the fullfledged space nazis. the leadership on both sides is bad, and the soldiers are a mix of good and bad in both sides. and that was since the first gundam show, so, saying that all who fight for Zeon are evil nazis, misses the point about war the show is trying to make.
War in the Pocket was my first ever exposure to the Gundam franchise so many, many years ago. Unfortunately, it was so effective in its messaging, it put me off every subsequent attempt to watch other Gundam series. In the long run, I ended up a fan of another Sunrise franchise: Love Live!
Great explaination! I started watching Gundam recently, starting with the 1979 original, and have just finished War in the Pocket (following a watch order list, Thunderbolt is next). The whole Meta aspect was almost lost on me because, like the reasonable adult I am, I never even thought of looking at the series from the "cool giant robots" angle after how well the original set the standard of "Everyone fighting and dying here are people, almost no one deserves any of what's happening". Hell, I'd argue with the exception of Giren, there was no major character who entirely deserved anything that happened. Maybe Degwin as well, but I kinda feel too bad for the old man regretting almost every single one of his life decisions and having to watch his son aspiring to become the next Hitler.
Yea, I am one of those jackasses that comments years after a video was released. War in the Pocket was my absolute favorite series (Universal Century being my favorite era) and I watched it in 1990 when I was 14 years old. It was the first Gundam series I ever saw, so it might have ruined it for me when I watched all the other UC series. The story was the best, but the care the creators made to show how simple things, like expended shells from a shotgun could inadvertently flatten a car or a few people in a crowd; it illustrated the collateral damage that is accidentally created during a simple fight. The series also didn’t focus on the whole “space nazis” thing for the most part. The Cyclops unit was just a bunch of folks fighting for their country, even sympathizing with the neutral colony’s fate. The series did a good job with the narrative: “don’t love/hate the soldiers on one side more than the other” without the usual teenager screaming “omgz why do I have to pilot this walking tank?! I hate fighting” a few minutes before the same teenager murders a few thousand people in his walking tank. This series will always be my favorite for a lot more reasons than nostalgia.
The reason real people favor Zeon among real fans is because Zeon had legitimate reasons for going to war, although considering the whole neutral side of colonies thing their reasons might not be as legitimate as it first appears. And while the Nazi Party forced their ideology on their fellow Germans at gunpoint, the average Zeon citizen was already fully onboard with Zeonism and anyone who disagreed was very rare. Basically, the similarities to the Nazis is skin deep and only meant to assist children in quickly recognizing who the bad guys are at a glance. And yes, I know they also committed mass murders as part of their attempt to destroy Jaburo base...like the allies mass bombing of German cities in response to a single German light bomber lost at night dumping its load and accidentally hitting London although in an open space that caused no damage to people or structures. And the destruction of a city by the colony drop was actually caused by the Federation. Zeon was targeting a military base and the Federation redirected the colony *without bothering to care about the trajectory.* The Federation does stuff like this a *LOT.* Zeon generally focuses on defeating the Federation military but with precision and rarely causes intentional damage to non-military targets. The Federation on the other hand doesn't give a damn who it kills so long as it wins, even its own citizens. Zeon is the side that would send a crack team of spec ops dudes to try and destroy a critical enemy asset. The Federation would have skipped straight to nuking the place and left without the slightest remorse and a smile of satisfaction for a job well done. Basically, there is a strong argument that at the very least both sides were equally bad but Zeon at least had legitimate grievances sufficient for them going to war to be acceptable to a modern audience. One could say that Zeon will do evil things to win as Plan B, the Federation will do whatever is most efficient and good for the Federation government and military with zero care for any consequences those actions have for the citizens. Personally, I think Zeon designs fit the Earth Federation more than the canon Fed designs do. Not because of the Federation being some sort of Nazi expy, but because Zeon MS designs are well suited and specialized primarily for terrestrial or amphibious combat and are designed for ease of maintenance and mass production. All things that make far more sense for the Federation than for Zeon. Also, Fed MS are more advanced (though their pilots far inferior) than Zeon MS which would make more sense if the Feds had invented MS and then Zeon stole knowledge and created inferior copies but trained superior pilots to compensate. Especially given the dramatically superior resources, industry, and population of the Federation (and therefore a greater source of scientific genii to draw upon).
Both sides do some really bad shit, but why I find myself more aligned towards Zeon is due to the ideology of moving humanity away from Earth which was the original core ideology of Zeon Zum Deikun and how the Federation treats its colonies. The colonies not being independent and forced to support a dying and increasingly unsustainable population on Earth seems like something they shouldn't do. I like Zeon as a faction more because of space independence and because their mobile suits are cooler
@Benjamin Figgins All the names in the Gundam universe are whacky as shit so in universe him naming a faction after his first name isn't that out of place. the Zeon war isn't one of defense, I agree on that. I still findmyself drawn to ideology of Zeon Zum Deikun in universe making a lot of sense. The Zabis did heavily misuse that ideology for gaining personal power. There is also the factor that almost every commander for Zeon we are shown cares about his men, does everything in his power to complete the mission and they are incredibly charismatic. There are exceptions of course, but people like Ramba Ral and Char in 0079 are very easy to like.
@Benjamin Figgins The series shows us that the average Zeon and Federation grunt are most good people. In 0079 however I have noticed that when the gang is on earth the random Federation soldiers they meet are drunk and disorderly while the Zeon show more professionalism and discipline. The show also frames the white base against Zeon soldiers who mostly are shown to help civilians on occasion and be just doing their job. I don't think the Nazi parallels are that effective as beyond surface level comparisons the reasons for starting a war and the circumstances are different. There is not shown to be a systematic effort to specifically wipe out the Earth population. However, this could be a symptom of the structure of 0079. You aren't shown Zeon dropping the colony, the aftermath of it or the gassing of the colony. The Origin handles it better as you are shown the use of gas and not just told about it. They nail it more with later series where Neo Zeon and the Titans are shown to be overall much worse than on screen than Zeon classic.
Imagine lying this hard about what Nazi Germany was. No, Germans LOVED Hitler and his ideology, the people who disagreed were the MINORITY. Hitler also took legitimate grievances and used them to fuel his Fascist conquest. Gihren is called LITERALLY Hitler. This is SPELLED OUT for you.
The Zaku head design resembles a World War II Japanese gas mask. Not a German one. Specifically what inspired it was the look of Japanese soldiers during the Battle of Shanghai.
While I wholeheartedly agree with you, you might also want to think critically about the inherent protofascism of the federation and its blatant neglect of its own people, there are no good guys in this conflict.
It's actually a good point. I just wanted to say that as cool as it would be if it was just a self-critique, well I actually read that War in the Pocket refers to the perspective that children in Japan had of war at some point. Personally I think Gundam has it's ups and downs but what's really is interesting it significance in the industry and well we should look at the historical and cultural context a bit more. Tomino did gundam after working in the industry for 5 years. He said in the interviews that some things were dictated by the sponsors or the studio, cause ultimately the show was supposed to be another kids show selling toys. They had to make the robots look cool so the kids would buy them. Also there wasn't really any other shows for kids openly saying that war is bad. It was always "that SIDE of the conflict is bad", gundam shifted it a bit and tried to send message that the conflict as a whole is bad, both sides have good or bad people, and we should learn to communicate and understand each other to achieve peace. If we look at the history, and the fact that directly after the war there was a strict censorship inflicted by the USA (like most of the laws directly after the war, Japanese constitution was basically written by USA), the victims of the war and especially atomic bombing couldn't really express it for some time. And well it kind of build up and than exploded if we look at some works that cover this theme. There is a lot of victimizing Japan in later depictions of war or nuclear bombing in Japan cause it was a way to relieve painful memories for a lot of creators. Gundam thankfully wasn't the case. And I personally think It's sad that in a way because of the "need to sell the show" Gundam became something it was trying to criticize and well break from. Tomino made Gundam because he had enough silly depictions of war, and especially devastating was watching series like G Gundam for example. Yeah, it was fun, but.... this was exactly the thing that Gundam was NOT supposed be. It depicts everything that made Tomino so sick of the industry that he made Gundam. I personally think the fault is mostly in the industry itself and in the fans a bit. We forget so easily about history and well, some things just aren't that obvious after 40 years. And even worse when someone tries to sell this as entertainment. But it is nothing new, there always were and will be toys mainly directed at young boys which glorify and encourage war. Unless all people communicate and collectively stop selling war as entertaining. But we sell toys of the tanks, jets and soldiers, we play games that make shooting people "stress relief" and fun and that make guns and other deadly weapons cool. I don't have anything against games and such but well, I think this is the main problem in gundam too. It was supposed to be entertainment. But it didn't want to be only mindless entertainment. And well I think it did the best it could. But it's disheartening to watch it fail and be be taken only as "cool robots fighting robots". Also I don't agree on fact that only Zeon should be considered the bad side. Yeah, there are a lot resemblance to the Nazi, but I don't agree with the fact that they should have "the redemption arc" to leave better message. Because it never is that simple. There is never the whole "bad" country or side in any conflict. There are different people and the whole point of gundam was always to show that the sides don't matter. War itself is bad. War which is started because of miscommunications, different ideals and greed. If we blame "the other side" the conflicts will never end. We need to communicate, forgive, change and move on. And well it is actually other problem that gundam tries to point out. Yes, the roots of the conflicts run always deeper than the surface. Only if we stop blame and hate cycle and communicate more there will be peace.
And the Federation was literally just as bad if not worse... I mean the Titans acted like the Waffen SS. Both sides conduct was reprehensible during the war, and both sides also had good people forced to fight a war they never truly agreed with. That is why most Zeon fans are also pro A.E.U.G. and are not fans of AXIS. Also Zaku cool ditto that there Rick Dias.
You don't understand gundam yourself if you think there is one bad side and that its black and white. The thing that makes the franchise interesting is how it portrays the good and bad on both sides. The story wouldn't be interesting if zeon didn't have some legitimate grievances with the earth federation. The irony of calling it fascist and therefore siding with the federation, is the fact you conveniently ignore the fact that the earth federation is also a fascist organization lol. That's why its important not to mindless side against someone, but side for what's actually right, like the AEUG does and why Zeta was such a perfect sequel to the original.
Too far away to the See the earth from which they came, too long for each generation to remember from were they sprang. A shout for independence in the silence of space, where there is no up or down, no left or right, no right no wrong.
I don't know about anyone else but i've actually never rooted for Zeon, as well as that prick Char Aznable (Until Zeta happened but even that didn't last). The only time i've ever cheered for a Zaku was when my boy Bernie got in one in order to save the colony from a nuclear attack that wasn't going to happen.
Don't want to be that guy but gas was not used in WW2, the one thing that evolved from WW1 was mechanized warfare, chemical warfare was irrelevant at that point. The Zaku head is more similar to the Wehrmacht's Stahlhelm (in relation to a very specific variant of the zaku)
A problem I see in this video is how you reduce Zeon to just "space nazis" and that showing simpathetic Zeons requieres a redemption arc with people abandoning the army. Both sides of the conflict can be really shitty as well as both sides can have good and bad people in them. Nothing in War in the pocket would have happened if the Federation didn't bring the gundam to a neutral colony in secret, so this implies that the Feds broke an international law knowing that this could put innocents at risk. And the whole war itself it's also the Feds fault as well, their bad administration caused the whole Zeon movement, only that then the Zabi distorted Zeon's ideals of independence. The point of Gundam in general is that war is the bad thing itself, not just the Zeon or the Federation. Both sides have people fighting for what they think is right or to protect their loved ones, both sides can do questionable decisions or downright war crimes as well as good actions to save people, but the tragedy is that war itself happened. So it is not necessary to make Zeons defect to make them fully simpathetic. With showing them as humans who can feel the loss of their comrades or family, who can fear for the well being of their loved ones, who can have aspirations beside war or in general being more than just a one dimentional villain without morals is enough to make you think that in both sides of a war there are real people who would never do what they have done if there wasn't any war in the first place, and this was done since Gundam 79. Even this OVA series says this with Bernie telling Al to not hate the Federation or the Zeons because in both sides there are people who fight for what they think it is right.
I think the point of Zeon is that they were once fighting for something noble but over time got radicalized, Degwin Sodo Zabi was clearly portrayed as being anti Fascist and even tried to end the war after his son started saying fascist stuff in front of him. And it is stated by the narrator that Zeon started the war because they wanted independence, which it is completely selfish for the federation to not give them considering the infinite size of space. As for the Zaku looking like German gas masks, German gas masks look exactly the same as British gas masks so it is unclear to me what makes them look German. As the guy from war in the pocket said their are good people on both sides. I think it would be weird to say Zeons on a whole are Fascist when so many of them are shown to be either nice or even heroic. Such as the characters from MS Team where the main protagonist marries a Zeon or even in War in the Pocket where the Zeon works to stop a nuke. Despite all this Zeon has never had concentration camps, Zeon has never done anything that the federation wouldn't do.
Whose watching this in 2021? A big US film company needs to remake this into a live action film. The story and promises are so grounded compared to the other Gundam series. Always pictured a young Brad Pitt to play Bernie lol
NO. Keep War in the Pocket as far as possible from Hollywood. They'd fuck this masterpiece six ways from Sunday and then tell us to congratulate them for it.
2 minutes in and I'm blown away. I'm bookmarking the video. Gonna go watch the show and then finish this. Tha k you so much for the recommendation. wow.
How did it go?
@@cristheblob4020 It went well.
Now they have to watch the epic Mecha/Military satires/criticism:
Macross Plus
GITS: SAC S1
Legend Of The Galactic Heroes
MSG: 0083 Stardust Memory
Macross Zero
MSG: Char's Counterattack
Neon Genesis Evangelion: TV Edit(the Director's Cut is heresy by a fraudulent co-creator)
The part of 0080 that disturbed me the most was the kids at the very end who learned absolutely nothing despite witnessing war firsthand.
They probably fought in the many wars that were coming up
just like Zeon fans irl
Probably his mind mentally blocked the traumatic parts, as a form to defend itself.
That's the thing: you never see them actually witness much of anything outside the initial battle in the colony. They see the aftermath, but apart from the school being blown up (by their own self-defense force no less), they have no tangible connection to the fight. No one they knew got hurt or died. Al on the other hand basically got to watch his surrogate older brother and sister get into a life or death fight and never know the other was there. That would mess anyone up.
@@DrForrester87 ^This one got it 👌
Al was in the midst and saw the fighting first hand. We see the cost of his innocence at the end during the speech when he is the only one that starts crying his eyes out, and only the girl that teased him earlier sees that there's something wrong with him and goes to get a teacher, while his friends try to cheer him up thinking he's sad because the war ended.
"Don't cry, Al. Soon there'll be an even bigger war with even cooler mobile suits!"
Just....man, what a way to twist the knife at the end there.
The show sends such a powerful message, too. As much as I hate the idea of being bombed....I still like going to the air and space museum to see the cool fighter planes. What a hypocrite I am.
Oh, and while I'm at it...I know we like to draw a lot of comparisons to Nazis, due to the obvious fascist tendencies and aesthetics, there's a lot of Imperial Japan in there, too. Much of the justification that Zeon use in starting their war has a great deal in common with how Japan propagandized itself to its civilians and how it justified declaring war on the Allies.
Zeon is more or less Imperial Japan with the tech and strategic focuses of Nazi Germany
" _It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it._ "
Yes. That second point is something I picked up ever since I first saw the original series, and maybe it’s because I’m half Korean-American and grew up with stories of Japanese atrocities during occupation and talking to American WW2 veterans, but I always felt that the ethnic nationalistic pride along with the military dictatorship felt very much like imperial Japan too.
@@nitrocharge2404 Makes it even more ironic that the writer of gundam unicorn is imperialist
Funny that the would be Axis and Allies did fought together for 55 days in China once. Imperial Japan and US even intervene in Siberia, a joint operation. What happened in 1919 that made Japan went brutal?
I think that Gundam Thunderbolt is interesting as it directly comments on the issue you mentioned at the start by going in the exact opposite direction as 0080. Al was someone who thought war was cool until being placed into one, however Thunderbolt's Io originally didn't like war until he started fighting in one and lost himself in it. Io is shown to be a psychopath who is having fun killing, which is meant to put a mirror up to the audience and make the audience consider if they are the similar for enjoying the on screen violence so much.
Thunderbolt was supposed to show a more nihilistic perspective of the war, unlike the other series which inspired hope. I wouldn't really call Io a psychopath as he is not really that. He is more of a disillusioned soldier who sees that war is not about fighting for a just cause nor is it for personal gain in military fame, but only about chaos and misery. He is aware of the true nature of war and combined with his daredevil personality and tragic past, he decided to do whatever the hell he wanted, deriving pleasure from living on the edge. Plus he still shows compassion to others and has a sense of comradery, which is not something common with psychopaths.
Io is not a psychopath as he is shown to care about his forces. He shows disgust at when bright eyed children are brought in as new MS pilots and you can see it takes a lot out of him. Io is ahead of the curb, he isn't self-righteous and he doesn't believe what he's doing is right unlike many of the other people in the war. They try to justify their actions as for the greater good, that's practically Zeons tagline, while Io cuts the bullshit and does what he wants
I think it really shows the war between zeon and the federation as a blurred line where either side will go to lengths to win.
I.e cutting off their own limbs, using child soldiers, Allying with cultist.
Not really showing a true hero.
Io and daryl lorenz are both deranged killers.
With Daryl still being the most sympathetic but just as war crazy with him blowing up ships full of people and going through hell just to destroy the gundam.
Let’s not forget that he gets ptsd from 2 things that he does later in the manga.
Io is not only bloodthirsty, but a complete creep. He uses a derogatory phrase on a person with disabilities, which makes him a bigot. Plus what makes him more deplorable is that he is a rich kid who enjoyed racing airplanes, but treats war like a sport. If that doesn’t make Io a schmuck who represents Federation elitism then I don’t know how anyone can defend his character and actions.
In the original series I always found it interesting how Gihren takes being compared to Hitler the same way a modern person would take being compared to Napoleon or Alexander the Great, that world war 2 is so distant in the memory of the people of that period that they've completely forgotten how horrific it was.
The Universal Century George Santayana would be rolling in his grave.
Tbh, Gihren is worse than the Nazis overall. Hitler was targeted towards people. Gihren was omnicidal
I mean Napoleon was born only 5 years before the Revolutionary War. He’s not that old
If Mobile Suit Gundam is a deconstruction of the mecha genre, than 0080 is a deconstruction of Gundam itself and the real robot genre itself, more so than Evangelion. Although Gundam was inspired by WWII since the people that made it lived through that conflict, I wouldn't say that Zeon is necessarily full on space Nazis. Good people were in Zeon and they fought for their own independence from a corrupt government and they were willing to do anything for what they thought was a good cause, but it was the leaders that warped the ideals of Zeon and made a bad image for the people of that nation. There is a reason why Ghiren was compared to Hitler by his own father. Plus, take into consideration what the Federation did across many years, like the Titans and the modification of the UC charter, which would have spared the world from many wars. History is told by the victors and while Zeon did terrible things the Federation remained corrupt with mistakes swept under the rug for many years and neither the AEUG, Londo Bell, Laplace Box and Crossbone Vanguard couldn't change that.
As a Feddie, there were good people in Zeon. Ramba Ral, Norris Packard, Bernie, and Darryle Lorenz.
I would also say that Gundam takes aesthetics from WWI as well, such as a reference to the Red Baron and WWI gas masks and draws from the Korean War and Vietnam War as the OYW is a limited war in its second phase much like the latter conflicts. Also, history is not written by the victors; that's just a rumor made in part by Lost Causers.
Zeon are full on nazis, even though they have some good people on their side that's the same as the nazis. It's a little shallow to assume that oh yes all those millions of Germans were all mega evil. Zeon is 1 to 1 with nazis because they believe that they are the superior people and should be the ones to decide the future of humanity. Their catchphrase 'Souls weighed down by gravity' is them calling all earthnoids inferior. Zeon itself deserves no sympathy, just in the same way WW2 Nazi Germany deserved no sympathy and got no sympathy. Yes, it was the failings and idocracy of the ruling world government that created zeon and nazi Germany. But that doesn't excuse them from the many atrocities they committed.
The federation is a corrupt and shitty system but you'll notice they didn't go around wiping out half of humanity. It's the same as our world, every government is corrupt and does shady shit but that doesn't mean we should go out and try replace it with facism. The federation was made worse by the many wars and attacks it was put through by zeon and its successors. After having 2 colonies dropped it overhauled and reinstated mobile suit development and an elite unit to quell zeon activities. The titans would NEVER have existed without Zeon, and if we were to use your rationality, that would mean the federation is innocent of any titan wrong doings as Zeon was the cause for their creation. The federation really screwed up with the Titans as they gave them too much freedom and too much power which led to their downward spiral. Once the tide turned in favour of the AEUG, the feds jumped ship and this eventually led to Londo Bell, the group the Titans were supposed to be.
Now to the federation's worst act, Laplace's Box. Or is it? Imo having Newtypes being treated as literally separate from the rest of humanity would have created more issues than anything as they're hardly an improvement. How many of the worst acts of war in the UC was led or carried out by Newtypes? The charter should have simply read that all spacenoids would have a say in the government. Not just a new breed of humanity.
In the end, did any of this even matter when we reach Victory gundam? What was the point of all this conflict if nothing came of it? Laplace's box was opened and no one cared. UC is a cursed timeline
@@jeff3221 The quote according to Revil, "their souls are weighed down by gravity", means that the Federation, a liberal capitalist regime, is trapped in "archaic ways of thinking". This pertaining to the Federation believing that a series of space nations forming an "alliance of the sides" will lead to a type of anarchy in which the colonies will be armed camps. That's taken from the novelization.
In a more nuanced view, the Titans would have existed even without the Zeon Deikun or the Zabis, because Liberal capitalist regimes are doomed to become fascist when the machinery of democracy fails them.
AEUG's "revolution" achieved nothing. It lead to the Federation tetering toward the brink of fascism, which is evident when we hear Bright and Amuro discussing the invasion of civilians' privacy and implications of breaking up assembly and suppressing free speech. The Federation is clearly not worth having around.
I'm advocating that fascism replaces liberalism though, as the latter is genocidal by design. Rather, the bigger picture is that, government should not exist at all. That I think is Tomino's ultimate message.
@@CosmoShidan Is this supposed to be an Anarchist take, or an Anarcho-Capitalist take?
Actually the Zaku was based off of a way japanese bandits used to dress as. Sorta to compliment the samurai anesthetic of the gundam. There's pictures of it on Google.
glad someone mentioned this, the earth federstion are moreso nazis, esp with additions like the titans resembling the SS, and summing the entire UC as good guys v. nazis misses the entire message of the show that war is bad for all sides, this video constantly rings only half correct imo 😭
@@BurbleBenis to be fair, most of us Americans can't handle complex narratives as we gravitate towards simpler stories that spoon feed the message.
@@Mr_Movie_Fan even this review, straight up misses the nuances of the zeons and turns them into "just nazis"
@@galm14ever one of the reasons I stopped watching most of his videos as I got over and I began to ask "does he even know what he's talking about?"
@@Mr_Movie_Fan when I got to the bit where he said something to the effect of "unicorn has a problem because it try's to humanize the zeon characters to much" and I rolled my eyes.
maybe I'm the weird one, but I've never taken in the anti-war messages from any of the gundam series I've watched, I've always take the other messages out of the series:
Unicorn: how the actions from people born before have consequences that affect us too. And it's our job to live and thrive past those consequences.
00: an interesting story on how a united earth government, like in Star Trek, would be formed, and the challenges that exist to becoming a type I civilization.
IBO: the importance of ripping yourselves off the very bottom. And the dangers of doing so forcefully.
Don't forget Zeta Gundam: the police and the military are evil bastards
The shows never try to be a full on ANti-War PSA but will include little details of problems of War. If you've watch the first series/ The first complication movie. The 16 year old main character who is the only person who can fly the Gundam, starts showing early stages of PTSD and just doesnt want to war anymore and a BIG plot point is that most of the army is dead and teenagers are now pilot war mechs, and the Generals are like "hey, we have children doing War, can we get Soliders to replace them" and the Army like "Nah, The Children are doing a fine job. Why give you men that we could use somewhere else while you have fine child soliders"
@@Lavapasta Bascially, not all heroes are really good guys.
The anti-war themes are so heavy they could crush you like a boulder.
"I don't think there's been a Gundam anime with such a well articulated anti-war message as War in the Pocket"
Well I guess the final episodes of the original Zeta show, some scenes of ZZ and F91 and most of 08th MS Team do as well of a job in articulating that message as 0080.
Very nice video though, pretty underrated channel
Thank you! I've actually already seen Zeta, F91, and 08th MS Team prior to making this video, so me saying that War in the Pocket has the best anti-war messages in a Gundam anime isn't something I say in ignorance.
I also don’t think the Gundam story is supposed to be so unambiguous about who is the villain, despite the obvious resemblance between Nazi Germany and Zeon. I thought a major theme of the franchise was how both sides of the war are ultimately the “bad guy”.
There are no winners in wars.
The bad side is always the one that wiped out half of humanity...
Just saw this last night. Absolutely great series! Quality animation and proper character development. The story was a well done and didn't jump all over the place.
I love the slow pace too, takes a step back from every other gundam series.
I never really think to go back to the 80s for anime, even when someone recommends a specific series, I'll make an exception for this one though.
Worth it?
A shame because the 80s is filled with some excellent anime series, like Macross and Zeta Gundam and Gunbuster
Your loss.....
@@porchcomputer5170 I think you read the first part of what I wrote and just responded to that except. If you look to the end of my comment you would see that I have started going back to older series. With the series that this video is about having been one of the series to start me off on that path. Or in other words I'm not losing anything as I've learned the error of my ways. Lol.
@@RaidenPSX and Fist of the North Star, and Dragon Ball, and basically every amazing banger anime that defined the future of anime debuted in the 80s or 90s.
4:24 that part put a smile on my face. I just love the cameos in the builders series
5:28 Gundam kills santa lol
Dont forget gundam ms 008 team that was pretty good too
@@xblade149 You mean the one with the romeo-and-juliet love story where a character basically says "we're just as bad as they are" and a 17-year old is introduced with her top off? Kinda overrated if you ask me.
@@Lavapasta Holy hamburger you are right.
You deserve more attention I love your gundam vids and overall content
I would say Zeta Gundam has a strong anti war message.
The Count of Monte Cristo it definitely is good at making people depressed.
One of the best gundam series ever. Love how you used aerodynamic by daft punk.
Quality content! War in the Pocket deserves more love and exposure among Gundam fans. Terribly underrated.
This is a very well done and discussed topic. Way to go man!
I don't really agree on Zeon being the bad guys, yes the Zabi family is terrible but so is the federation, and they always show us that all these soldiers are humans fighting for what they believe, that being the independence of Zeon and spacenoids, peace, revenge and so on, still a great video and it's always nice to see something from 0080
Agreed. The author does well explaining the anti-war aspects but forgets another major Gundam Theme, and that's people on both sides are simply doing what they think is right. The federation and zeon can both easily be painted as the "bad guys" depending on who the story follows.
Most of the zeons soldiers aren't fascists, but the leadership certainly is. Also see Operation: British
You just earned a sub instantly. This is the exploration into the Gundam anti-war ideology I've been desperately searching for across the video essay RUclips space!! Great work man!! :)
I saved on my playlists. Wonderful video. Hats off
Just here to say your ending climactic finish to your video essay cut to the audio of arguably the greatest Christmas song of all time deserves endless praise and that it legit gave me chills. Bravo
Such a good video! Fantastic work!
Great review. I also liked how at 5:12 you synced up "biggest pitfalls" with Al falling into the Zaku cockpit.
I wonder what happened to Al after this? And other characters in general. What were they doing during Unicorn? Did Al join the military, either Zeon or the Federation? What was Kou Uraki doing?
Kou was running my guy
Al probably died during the neo zeon wars. The shonen trappings really hide how grimdark the UC is. Imagine if WWI, II, and Vietnam all happened in a 20 year timeframe.
iirc there was a "blink and you missed it" moment in CCA where a more adult-like Al and someone who looked like Chris in the final scene where Nu Gundam's Psychoframe turned green and engulfed the dropped colony
@@kagesentai Could you show me?
Al probably became a pacifist.
Kou likely was kept out of conflict and likely maintained as a test pilot
Just watched 0080. And now i'm in love with it, first ever gundam show to bring me to tears. You don't have to fight anymore, Bernie.
Absolutely. Great vid. Couldn’t agree more. It’s the best ever out of all Gundam. Very clear and conscience story that can be appreciated years later even if the tech looks dated.
I hope one of the next gundam entries goes really strong on the anti war message. Really show the the collateral damage not just the loses to the main ship.
And that piloting a suit would suck. Too many gundam fans want to pilot a mobile suit because they look cool and zip around. IBO didn't focus enough on its brutal scenes of MS cockpit deaths, they were there but no one really reacted to how awful it was. How many characters got shrapnel jammed through them from the cockpit collapsing after an attack? Or getting crushed between all that jagged metal. It gets worse in space because now you're in a clunky robot that can get attacked from 360 degrees and the only reliable way to detect a suit is with your eyes or short range sensors
@@jeff3221 Dude, it's grimdark Gundam (or at least it's TRYING to be). Of course gruesome deaths weren't going to solve anything. Besides, people have been seeing characters get brutalized in cockpits since Zeta (you can even see it happen in SEED). None of that has been enough to remove the appeal of entering a colossal titan of steel and fucking shit up (thank Lord), and I predict that it'll stay that way regardless of how much gore a new entry adds in.
@@laststrike4411 I can see the appeal but everytime there's been a POV from a grunt it looks like non stop panic.
If there was no war then yeah giant fucking robot to fly around in
@@jeff3221 Hey, you only live once. Might as well go out with a bang...literally.
Thunderbolt has been out for years now.
Amazing video
I like how the One year War OVA's have different perspective on the conflict
Thunderbolt is about the hatred between both sides and how both can be evil and good in their own right
08th MS team is a personal story about hardship, struggle and brotherhood, as well as putting aside ideology for the sake of protecting those you love
While War in the pocket takes a far more down to earth perspective about the civilian loss caught in the crossfire and as well as the naivety of youth during the war.
I agree. While my favorite is MS Gundam Trilogy and Char's Counterattack, 0080 War in the Pocket has a special place in my heart, rent free, for what it represents.
Excellent video.
War in the Pocket destroyed me for the sole reason that if there wasn't a fucking war raging, maybe they could have been friends, Christina and Bernie belonged together and the ending is just pure tragedy, they didn't even know who was piloting the other MS!
Hey dude nice vid, just watched the series and saw your vid in the related videos and I was thoroughly enjoyed ^-^
NICE! Keep on doing these! They're great!
Very interesting observations. I'll keep that in mind. Thank you.
People enjoying robot fights in a show about robot fights? Who would have imagined...
How to trigger a gundam fan :
Calling a mobile suit a giant robot multiple times
God, the Gundam Build Fighters with Chris and Bernard together just... ow, that hurts the heart.
Honestly, all Gundam anime up to this time, and even Gundam OVAs that came after based in the UC era were all good anti war stories. Issue is, the viewers. Gundam 0080 will always be a gem of the franchise because in satire form it mocks Gundam fans. I think it makes Gundam 0080 one of the best, and often #1 on most people's list of best Gundam OVA series because Alfred is "US" the fans. I've always noticed the anti war narrative of Gundam. It's always been why I love Gundam. I'm not a huge mech fan as I watch very few mech anime, except Gundam. Even then I normally just stick to UC Gundam anime, because like a Star Wars viewer I'm deeply invested in the universe. Gundam fans often seem to fail to realize basic narrative points of Gundam anime, and honestly Gundam 0080 deserves the praise it gets because it's meant to correct viewers. I mean some people actually believe Gundam 08th MS Team pushes a pacifist message, despite the fact the anime literally crushes that kind of wishful thinking like an egg benefit the protagonist' feet.
Feel free to elaborate on literally anything you said. Also, what about the last episode of MS 8th Team where Shiro and Aina successfully defect from their respective factions to live happily ever after?
@@laststrike4411 Defecting would imply they went over to another nation, they were deserters not defectors.
Also episode 12 The Last Resort, was technically a follow up episode to a series that was already concluded. Shattering Mountain Part II was originally meant to be the ending to 08th MS Team, but for reasons that I've not so far come across, they decided to release one final episode, likely for similar reasons to why Onegai Teacher ended up getting a second ending episode after the OVA series also officially ended. So I would assume like Onegai Teacher it had something to do with fans wanting a more conclusive ending for the protagonist. It's why Episode 12 comes off more as short film more so than a general continuation of the OVA series. To be honest, I still think 08th MS Team is better, without that final episode as well.
Either way, it still does not change the fact that the two protagonist attempts to do things their way, ended up in absolute failure. Both sides, still literally almost wiped each other completely out of existence and for the Zeons in particular, they were literally wiped out of existence. Shiros attempts to minimize casualties ended up being fruitless. Meanwhile Aina's attempts to find a peaceful solution also ended up in utter disaster for her own people because parties on both sides, had no interest in playing by their more pacifistic rules They were utter failures, and ironically I find it strange few people seem to realize that, and threw away everything, they had no choice but to become deserters as well because they pretty much both betrayed their own factions. If Aina joined Shiro she would of been a POW or worse, while Shiro likely would of found himself behind a firing squad to a point that even Captain Kojima likely couldn't of protected him, as someone was going to be blamed for the death of a General and he would of made a perfect scapegoat for what he did. So when you actually think about it, their desertion was a result of their failures, one they had no other choice but to take.
There's also "Turn A Gundam" where the main antagonist is also essentially a fanboy.
In retrospect in its really melancholic how the op and ed themes are. No epic bsttle mysic or grand sweeping orchestras just down to earth music for a show about the loss of innocence and realizing the realities of war.
This is what happens when you forget that the Federation put down spacenoid demonsatrations with guntanks. No, the Zeon weren't the good guys - but neither were the Federation. In the end, the future was in space, it was wrong to put Earth and countless lives through a grinder, and Anaheim Electronics are just as bad as Degwin Zabi. Also, the edgy aesthetic was cooler.
Yep, Zeon started with good intentions, but it was the zabis that twisted it to become the Nazi esque militant force it became (looking at you, ghiren) axis and neo Zeon was just a continuation of that, however we must understand that char, who was a founding member of AEUG, the only real „good faction“ in the show, got so much shit from the federation who were at that point even worse than Zeon (not excusing the colony drop, but sending a giant psycho gundam in your own civilian area and letting it go rampant or gassing your own colonies for „suspicion“ of Zeon remnants is pretty agregious) that he felt the only option to bring peace was to end the federation. And the sleeves are actually not as bad as neo Zeon, they tried their best to avoid civilian casualties as well as diplomacy
Tha happens when you wiped out half of mankind with colonies drops....
I just watched it. My gosh, the innocence in this series is too pure. I didn't want Berny to die at all, I was hoping for a new leaf and to not die for nothing but in the end, everything just had to be tragic. No one except our protagonist has learned anything and this whole story was hidden in a pocket, no one knew or could speak about what really went on and it boils me down with how secretive it was.
Bernie!!!!!
This is a great entry in the Gundam franchise and I wish it would get a Blu Ray release. I read somewhere that the novel version of 0080 ended differently but I can't find it.
I love to think that build fighters AU is the gundam valhalla with all the cameos. the WIP cameo in BF is my personal favorite.
Great video incapsulating most of my issues with Gundam. for something that aims to be realistic and show the life of soldiers there's just to much empathy on children with plot armor who get out of every situation virtually unpunished. (Like two days of brick for deserting and taking the Gundam with him)
I do however think there's one major flaw that if followed would keep something from reaching it's potential.
quote: "If you're going to make a sympathetic Zeon characterm their redemption arc should probably consist of deciding to not align themselves with space nazis."
So you are saying a sympathetic Zeon soldier should always defect.
Bernie is a Zeon soldier to the very end. He does not become a traitor. All he does to save the colony is attempt and destroy the Gundam. That does not undermine Zeons plans in any way. Because they want to nuke the colony to destroy the Gundam. He is loyal to his very last breath.
There's a great example for this. And not just for a fictional space Nazi story with giant robots, but for actual World War 2. The movie "Das Boot". Noone onboard tries to defect or become a traitor in any other way. All of them are just soldiers. A redemption arc would ruin this movie. As seen in the current Series of Das Boot which is about to enter it's third season. Every "sympathic" German in that show defects to America, becomes involved with a black woman, has a same sex relationship with a leader of a rebel cell, etc. It feels so incredibly forced, it's hilarious.
What's wrong with Amuro's character arc? The point Tomino was getting across was that, if a 15-year-old had to fight everyday of the week, it would be akin to a child soldier. Amuro goes through an arc in which he is conscripted, dehumanized and brainwashed into serving as the very instrument of war that is the Gundam. To spell it out, Amuro becomes the Gundam, and loses his innocence as a result; especially as he spends time away from the Haro robot, which is a symbol of his innocence.
While I agree with the idea that a redemption arc is not always best for Nazi characters, given how it is not always the case that a Nazi cannot always be redeemed, it is possible to make them sympathetic in terms of their origin story. In fact, a Nazi's origin story isn't to excuse their actions, but to reveal why they are all the more terrifying since they are human beings. E.g. like the manga Message to Adolf by Osamu Tezuka. Though, it is still possible to present soldiers in a fascist army as not buying into the kool-aid and just simply fighting for their own reasons.
@@CosmoShidan What's wrong with his arc is the fact there actually ARE childsoldiers even younger than that. And yes there are deserters among them. Or just going AWOL. You know what happens to them during wartime? Hint: It's not a Brightslap(TM) So to answer "What if a 15-year-old boy got pulled in to fight in a war and act like Amuro did?" He'd face an execution comando pretty soon.
@@Drachenhannes That doesn't really answer my question though. I should have said this before, but now is a good time to point out that, Tomino was attaching the Super Robot genre by exposing it as a glorification of war and state power. This is akin to Watchmen, as Alan Moore was pointing out how superheroes are enforcers of the status quo. So, my question still stands as the creator had created a satire that he succeeds at, and raises the question as to how the arc of his protagonist is wrong.
@@CosmoShidan Hey man. I'm sorry i never answered. Just stumbled on this video again and found my old comment.
What i find "wrong" with the og Gundam is that, to my knowledge, Tomino wanted to show that there are good people on both sides. It falls flat when one side is a pale grinning mass with only a few esceptions, like Ramba. Then there is insubordination on every corner. On both sides. Noone seems to have a concept of rank and military structure. Amuro can do whatever the heck he wants. Steal millions worth of equipment and go AWOL with it only to get slapped in the face and a weekend of brick. The show wants to criticise yet has no idea what it is talking about.
To me the lack of any semblance of how a soldiers daily life actually is and any basic understanding of action and consequences in a military make it toothless to me. Right now MS Gundam feels like someone criticizing osmething without understanding it in the first place.
It's no problem. BTW, I'm a little troubled by your opinions. You sort of miss the point as to why Amuro goes awol; it's because he doesn't want to be there in the first place. Tomino was also critiquing how in teen superheroes in Super Robot anime are like child soldiers, if they were forced to fight in a war against their will. Not to mention that, Tomino poses the question, what would it be like if giant robots existed in the real world and would the consequences be? He answers that question by demonstrating how mecha would be machines of war, and the consequences would be the cost would be human life. Also, the reason the Zeons fight each other than concentrating on fighting the Federation, is because they are based off of the Axis powers during WWII, and how they were an inefficient military machine, constantly bickering amongst one another. Not to mention that, Amuro Ray's treatment at the hands of Bright Noa is straight up child abuse, and dehumanization; this makes Bright a war criminal in this light. Especially considering how he's recruiting not only Amuro, but child soldiers as his crew as well. Again a war crime on his part, as well as General Revil. Speaking of Revil, he also complicit in the two war crimes, as he allows for the garrisoning of military bases in civilian areas, which is the war crime of using human shields. Plus, he also uses the White Base crew of child soldiers as human guinea pigs to breed newtype troops, as well as using Amuro to test the Gundam. One more war crime the Feds allow for is that they let their troops get away with ransacking towns and harassing civilians, and arresting and imprisioning civilians unlawfully.
With that out of the way, Tomino was trying to show that the Federation and Zeon are two sides of the same coin; that they are both totalitarian, and that in war, totalitarianism has free reign. That and the Federation representing liberalism and Zeon as fascism are pretty much the same ideology since they desire power, all through mecha anime.
At 2:39 , when I first saw that in the Builder’s anime, it genuinely made me uncomfortable. Those guys in the bar unironically chanting “Sieg Zion” reminds me too much of the guys who are way too into Nazi imagery that it makes you wonder if they understand the atrocities committed and why holding them in reverence isn’t a good look.
First gundam series I ever watched in middle school. Got me hooked from there
While I dont nesccisalry love zeon, I dont hate them either. In fact I'd say I have more respect and empathy even to be conpletley honest with Zeon more than I do the federation. I dont like most of the Zabi family, and I more empathize with Zeon in General. They honestly feel more like underdogs to me more than anything. They feel like people I could route for to a certain degree. And you can call that whatever you want, but in nearly every Gundam series I have watched, I always route for the Rebels. When I first watched the original, and even to this day, I felt conflicted with Amuro Ray. Not becuase he had so much plot armor but becuase I hated how ignorant he was. He sees Zeon as nothing more than fascists, as the general public sees them. But nearly refuses to acknowledge that the earth Federation weren't any better. That before Zeon, the colonies were being oppressed by the Federation. I more than often come to empathize with the rebels, ergo Zeon, becuase they, the rebels, are usually the first ones who are determined enough to take the first step to make a change in the world. A step taken by them, that arguably without it, there would be no realization to the problem with the current system. The oppression done by the federation would most likely have not stopped, would never have been brought to the wider attention of the world, and would have gotten worse. I am not saying that all of Zeon are good people, and they are the end all be all for being "Heroes". OH MY GOODNESS OH MY DANG, that is not what I am saying. I do agree that dropping colonies on earth is wrong, and I always will that way, but the feeling of empathy comes generally from the empathy I have with people like, Zinnerman, Mrs. Loni, Marida, Bernie, and especially Char. People who cant let go of the past, not just becuase they lost, but becuase people they cared about, had to be sacrificed for a victory by the hands of a Gundam, or the federation in general, which in fact, never does improve things. You can disagree with me if you want, and keep calling Zeon "Space Nazi's," but my opinion still stands. I dont call Zeon the "Space Nazi's", I'd call most of the Zabi family, the Titans, and the federation before Zeon, "Space Nazi's." And you can keep defending the federation, but even to this day, as said in the latest "Hathaways Flash", the Federation hasn't changed, and in fact has gotten worse and more corrupt. But that's just my opinion. Probably due to my over empathizing with groups like Zeon, Tekkaden, Celestial Being, and other Rebel groups. When it's always the federation that wins, and nothing gets better, and the weak keep getting oppressed, and the earth still being polluted and taking advantage of, I cant helped but feel abit tired of it. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a story in which Zeon actually won a war, and a positive change came out of it.
Well said. Fuck the Zabis, sig Zeon.
@@rolandjaycutter3504 Well some of the Zabis are good like Mineva, it's just ones like Degwin that have the problem.
@@CoreVin975 I know, its really just Gihren and Kycilia I hate. Degwin was 'okay', Sasro died, Dozle was alright just manipulated, Garma was a kid, and Mineva was just born.
@@rolandjaycutter3504 wait was it Degwin who killed his father when he was making peace with the federation, or was it Gihren? Is Gihren Degwins father?
@@CoreVin975 You got it backwards mate, Degwin was the father and patriarch of the Zabi Family, Gihren was the son that didn't flinch when his father compared him to Hitler.
This is the apex of the Gundam franchise, in my opinion.
My favorite aspects of Gundam, in no particular order: The philosophy, the portrayal of space colonies, Newtype theory. After that, it's the mecha.
I need to see Gundam age because it deals with a war that last generations instead of a year long conflict.
"War is bad" or cool giant robots?
*Me:* "Both, both is good."
0080 is my favorite Christmas movie
Something that just occured to me:
Wouldn't the military/EFSF have looked for the crashed Zaku since it's enemy hardware that should be accounted for?
Probably, but it was not beam rifle compatible and it's pretty much a zaku that's about as powerful as a dom
@@Bobert2020 True but you can't leave enemy stuff lying around.
@@fishpop yeah they probably looked and see what they could use and probably made the hizack using it
Side 6 was run by the Riah Republic, not the EFSF. We saw EFSF's base and whole operation was top secret since Side 6 was a neutral colony. They were probably just keeping a low profile. :)
It was also shown that there was friction between the Federation forces and side 6's Riah Republic. And we were shown how the police treated Christina Mackenzie despite her actions to save people.
It wasn't operational. And this was prior to the universal arms agreement so idk how many parts would be compatible. Bernie and Al spent a whole heap of time to get it barely running as well as getting parts off the Bartender. I think the Feds would have been more focused on their downed GM's than a busted Zaku with only a heat hawk
The main problem that the Gundam franchise has is that it tries to send the message of how bad war is, but war in reality often doesn't occur without reasons that just can't be peacefully resolved. Even worse, Gundam series usually give very good reasons for war happening. The closest to getting the message right is probably Gundam SEED in which the war exists for basically no reason. But that still fails because the reasons given for the war are the opposite of how humans would react to the ability to give their children great futures.
The way I see how Bloody Valentine War went, there are no winners. Plus Rau is pretty nihillistic.
Also pls make a video of ur thought about Gundam Wings too
So gundam wing does this thing in the middle of the show where the protagonists all get lost and struggle to figure out their next moves. While the show itself loses focus as well and gets kind of confusing, I think that it actually works thematically because it highlight how warfare is a confusing mess where people lose focus and struggle on figuring out what to do next. Also it's better than G Reco.
Finished it a few hours ago. Still crying
I think giant robot anime is more overtly anti war is bc the creators were born around wo2 which was terrible for Japan and were living in the cold war Era where the possibility a wo3 was very real
Thank you good sir
When i first watched War in the pocket i cried and that says something i have never cried in a series or movie.
The most poignant part is at the end of the series where absolutely nothing was achieved by any of the characters; the conflict is ultimately resolved by something coming out of complete left field. For all their trials and sacrifices, the characters all ended up as little more than a footnote in history. and I don't think anything else has illustrated the pointlessness of War before or since then
I thought War in the Pocket was just a walk through the park until shit started happening. Just started watching UC and I guess more heartaches are coming my way
I would love a follow-up with Al in UC0100 or something. I need to know how screwed up he ended up being.
I can't imagine an adult Al as a heavy drinker after all of the events.
@4:51 I have to completely disagree. A redemption arc should not always be a requirement to writing a Nazi character, because when writing into their history, I think it's best for the audience to sympathize with them from how they ended up in their position from youth, until they reach adulthood, and realize there is no turning back for them. The latter portion of humanizing a Nazi character would imo make the audience come to empathize with them as adults, but then find their actions most revolting, and thus faces catharsis. Once again, it's the same logic in how Sir Anthony Hopkins portraying Hitler in The Bunker where the drugged, collapsing Ahab-like tyrant appears sympathetic, but it is because he is a human being that makes him so horrifying. Another example of a similar Nazi character who is sympathetic from their youth, but then becomes one we come to empathize why he does what they do and yet are horrifying because they are human, is Adolf Kaufman from Osamu Tezuka's Message to Adolf, in which he goes through the same arc as I described, but ends up facing catharsis.
Aren't the Zeon the ones who breakaway from the Federation, a much bigger party? Gundam is generally pretty grey in both sides' morality
Also the fights in the show are really cool.
I never doubted the principality once
It's an old video, but gotta say that Zeon = space Nazis is a very reductive way of viewing at it.
Yes, i know that's the aesthetics the show gave them, but it's also the only opposing force to the federation, so as a revolutionary movement there is a lot of types of characters fighting for Zeon.
As happens with the Federation, the Titans are also space nazis
You kind of lose the ability to characterize them as anything else when you have the figureheads chattin' about being like Hitler and casually committing genocide. The soliders don't realize how far the fascism goes probably, but that doesn't make Zeon as a whole less fascist.
@@hydrocosmo i pointed that out because at some points in the review he talks about characters fighting in Zeon and says something like "they are fighting for the nazis, they are morally wrong", and that's kinda dumb, because a space anarchist might end fighting in zeon because it is the only major revolutionary movement in this universe.
in fact, i would say that Zeon is more akin to commies than nazis, Titans are the fullfledged space nazis.
the leadership on both sides is bad, and the soldiers are a mix of good and bad in both sides. and that was since the first gundam show, so, saying that all who fight for Zeon are evil nazis, misses the point about war the show is trying to make.
War in the Pocket was my first ever exposure to the Gundam franchise so many, many years ago. Unfortunately, it was so effective in its messaging, it put me off every subsequent attempt to watch other Gundam series. In the long run, I ended up a fan of another Sunrise franchise: Love Live!
Great explaination! I started watching Gundam recently, starting with the 1979 original, and have just finished War in the Pocket (following a watch order list, Thunderbolt is next).
The whole Meta aspect was almost lost on me because, like the reasonable adult I am, I never even thought of looking at the series from the "cool giant robots" angle after how well the original set the standard of "Everyone fighting and dying here are people, almost no one deserves any of what's happening". Hell, I'd argue with the exception of Giren, there was no major character who entirely deserved anything that happened. Maybe Degwin as well, but I kinda feel too bad for the old man regretting almost every single one of his life decisions and having to watch his son aspiring to become the next Hitler.
Its funny that people are just now starting to watch this anime.
honestly, i can relate to this kid the most cause im very similar to how he feels about giant robots
Yea, I am one of those jackasses that comments years after a video was released. War in the Pocket was my absolute favorite series (Universal Century being my favorite era) and I watched it in 1990 when I was 14 years old. It was the first Gundam series I ever saw, so it might have ruined it for me when I watched all the other UC series. The story was the best, but the care the creators made to show how simple things, like expended shells from a shotgun could inadvertently flatten a car or a few people in a crowd; it illustrated the collateral damage that is accidentally created during a simple fight. The series also didn’t focus on the whole “space nazis” thing for the most part. The Cyclops unit was just a bunch of folks fighting for their country, even sympathizing with the neutral colony’s fate. The series did a good job with the narrative: “don’t love/hate the soldiers on one side more than the other” without the usual teenager screaming “omgz why do I have to pilot this walking tank?! I hate fighting” a few minutes before the same teenager murders a few thousand people in his walking tank. This series will always be my favorite for a lot more reasons than nostalgia.
110% agree with you.
It is the jewel of gundam
The reason real people favor Zeon among real fans is because Zeon had legitimate reasons for going to war, although considering the whole neutral side of colonies thing their reasons might not be as legitimate as it first appears. And while the Nazi Party forced their ideology on their fellow Germans at gunpoint, the average Zeon citizen was already fully onboard with Zeonism and anyone who disagreed was very rare. Basically, the similarities to the Nazis is skin deep and only meant to assist children in quickly recognizing who the bad guys are at a glance. And yes, I know they also committed mass murders as part of their attempt to destroy Jaburo base...like the allies mass bombing of German cities in response to a single German light bomber lost at night dumping its load and accidentally hitting London although in an open space that caused no damage to people or structures. And the destruction of a city by the colony drop was actually caused by the Federation.
Zeon was targeting a military base and the Federation redirected the colony *without bothering to care about the trajectory.* The Federation does stuff like this a *LOT.* Zeon generally focuses on defeating the Federation military but with precision and rarely causes intentional damage to non-military targets. The Federation on the other hand doesn't give a damn who it kills so long as it wins, even its own citizens. Zeon is the side that would send a crack team of spec ops dudes to try and destroy a critical enemy asset. The Federation would have skipped straight to nuking the place and left without the slightest remorse and a smile of satisfaction for a job well done.
Basically, there is a strong argument that at the very least both sides were equally bad but Zeon at least had legitimate grievances sufficient for them going to war to be acceptable to a modern audience. One could say that Zeon will do evil things to win as Plan B, the Federation will do whatever is most efficient and good for the Federation government and military with zero care for any consequences those actions have for the citizens.
Personally, I think Zeon designs fit the Earth Federation more than the canon Fed designs do. Not because of the Federation being some sort of Nazi expy, but because Zeon MS designs are well suited and specialized primarily for terrestrial or amphibious combat and are designed for ease of maintenance and mass production. All things that make far more sense for the Federation than for Zeon. Also, Fed MS are more advanced (though their pilots far inferior) than Zeon MS which would make more sense if the Feds had invented MS and then Zeon stole knowledge and created inferior copies but trained superior pilots to compensate. Especially given the dramatically superior resources, industry, and population of the Federation (and therefore a greater source of scientific genii to draw upon).
Both sides do some really bad shit, but why I find myself more aligned towards Zeon is due to the ideology of moving humanity away from Earth which was the original core ideology of Zeon Zum Deikun and how the Federation treats its colonies. The colonies not being independent and forced to support a dying and increasingly unsustainable population on Earth seems like something they shouldn't do. I like Zeon as a faction more because of space independence and because their mobile suits are cooler
@Benjamin Figgins All the names in the Gundam universe are whacky as shit so in universe him naming a faction after his first name isn't that out of place. the Zeon war isn't one of defense, I agree on that. I still findmyself drawn to ideology of Zeon Zum Deikun in universe making a lot of sense. The Zabis did heavily misuse that ideology for gaining personal power. There is also the factor that almost every commander for Zeon we are shown cares about his men, does everything in his power to complete the mission and they are incredibly charismatic. There are exceptions of course, but people like Ramba Ral and Char in 0079 are very easy to like.
@Benjamin Figgins
The series shows us that the average Zeon and Federation grunt are most good people. In 0079 however I have noticed that when the gang is on earth the random Federation soldiers they meet are drunk and disorderly while the Zeon show more professionalism and discipline. The show also frames the white base against Zeon soldiers who mostly are shown to help civilians on occasion and be just doing their job. I don't think the Nazi parallels are that effective as beyond surface level comparisons the reasons for starting a war and the circumstances are different. There is not shown to be a systematic effort to specifically wipe out the Earth population.
However, this could be a symptom of the structure of 0079. You aren't shown Zeon dropping the colony, the aftermath of it or the gassing of the colony. The Origin handles it better as you are shown the use of gas and not just told about it. They nail it more with later series where Neo Zeon and the Titans are shown to be overall much worse than on screen than Zeon classic.
Imagine lying this hard about what Nazi Germany was.
No, Germans LOVED Hitler and his ideology, the people who disagreed were the MINORITY. Hitler also took legitimate grievances and used them to fuel his Fascist conquest. Gihren is called LITERALLY Hitler. This is SPELLED OUT for you.
DAFTPUNK!
TRANSSIBERIANORCHESTRA!
What about 8th Ms team and 0083 I think all 3 work as war stories
The Zaku head design resembles a World War II Japanese gas mask. Not a German one.
Specifically what inspired it was the look of Japanese soldiers during the Battle of Shanghai.
Wait a minute. Is that Trans Siberian Orchestra in the background near the end?
the kid looks like Noa Hathaway from Gundam Hathaway
Gundam 00 explained in your next video.
While I wholeheartedly agree with you, you might also want to think critically about the inherent protofascism of the federation and its blatant neglect of its own people, there are no good guys in this conflict.
It's actually a good point. I just wanted to say that as cool as it would be if it was just a self-critique, well I actually read that War in the Pocket refers to the perspective that children in Japan had of war at some point. Personally I think Gundam has it's ups and downs but what's really is interesting it significance in the industry and well we should look at the historical and cultural context a bit more. Tomino did gundam after working in the industry for 5 years. He said in the interviews that some things were dictated by the sponsors or the studio, cause ultimately the show was supposed to be another kids show selling toys. They had to make the robots look cool so the kids would buy them. Also there wasn't really any other shows for kids openly saying that war is bad. It was always "that SIDE of the conflict is bad", gundam shifted it a bit and tried to send message that the conflict as a whole is bad, both sides have good or bad people, and we should learn to communicate and understand each other to achieve peace. If we look at the history, and the fact that directly after the war there was a strict censorship inflicted by the USA (like most of the laws directly after the war, Japanese constitution was basically written by USA), the victims of the war and especially atomic bombing couldn't really express it for some time. And well it kind of build up and than exploded if we look at some works that cover this theme. There is a lot of victimizing Japan in later depictions of war or nuclear bombing in Japan cause it was a way to relieve painful memories for a lot of creators. Gundam thankfully wasn't the case. And I personally think It's sad that in a way because of the "need to sell the show" Gundam became something it was trying to criticize and well break from. Tomino made Gundam because he had enough silly depictions of war, and especially devastating was watching series like G Gundam for example. Yeah, it was fun, but.... this was exactly the thing that Gundam was NOT supposed be. It depicts everything that made Tomino so sick of the industry that he made Gundam. I personally think the fault is mostly in the industry itself and in the fans a bit. We forget so easily about history and well, some things just aren't that obvious after 40 years. And even worse when someone tries to sell this as entertainment. But it is nothing new, there always were and will be toys mainly directed at young boys which glorify and encourage war. Unless all people communicate and collectively stop selling war as entertaining. But we sell toys of the tanks, jets and soldiers, we play games that make shooting people "stress relief" and fun and that make guns and other deadly weapons cool. I don't have anything against games and such but well, I think this is the main problem in gundam too. It was supposed to be entertainment. But it didn't want to be only mindless entertainment. And well I think it did the best it could. But it's disheartening to watch it fail and be be taken only as "cool robots fighting robots". Also I don't agree on fact that only Zeon should be considered the bad side. Yeah, there are a lot resemblance to the Nazi, but I don't agree with the fact that they should have "the redemption arc" to leave better message. Because it never is that simple. There is never the whole "bad" country or side in any conflict. There are different people and the whole point of gundam was always to show that the sides don't matter. War itself is bad. War which is started because of miscommunications, different ideals and greed. If we blame "the other side" the conflicts will never end. We need to communicate, forgive, change and move on. And well it is actually other problem that gundam tries to point out. Yes, the roots of the conflicts run always deeper than the surface. Only if we stop blame and hate cycle and communicate more there will be peace.
I know im a little late but lets be clear. Zeon wasnt nuking a city but an entire colony . Just some Zeon shit i guess lol
No I like Zeons because... I mean there side is morally.... well they want... :/ Zaku cool
Edit: most people side with zeon because of char
And the Federation was literally just as bad if not worse... I mean the Titans acted like the Waffen SS. Both sides conduct was reprehensible during the war, and both sides also had good people forced to fight a war they never truly agreed with. That is why most Zeon fans are also pro A.E.U.G. and are not fans of AXIS.
Also Zaku cool
ditto that there Rick Dias.
You don't understand gundam yourself if you think there is one bad side and that its black and white. The thing that makes the franchise interesting is how it portrays the good and bad on both sides. The story wouldn't be interesting if zeon didn't have some legitimate grievances with the earth federation. The irony of calling it fascist and therefore siding with the federation, is the fact you conveniently ignore the fact that the earth federation is also a fascist organization lol. That's why its important not to mindless side against someone, but side for what's actually right, like the AEUG does and why Zeta was such a perfect sequel to the original.
Zaku’s are cooler. Siege Zeon!!!
Too far away to the See the earth from which they came, too long for each generation to remember from were they sprang. A shout for independence in the silence of space, where there is no up or down, no left or right, no right no wrong.
0080. Thunderbolt. Ibo. Three of them stand out with the rest of the franchise. Origin maybe join the party but its not finished yet
The anti war stuff is exactly why the UC era is the best
I don't know about anyone else but i've actually never rooted for Zeon, as well as that prick Char Aznable (Until Zeta happened but even that didn't last). The only time i've ever cheered for a Zaku was when my boy Bernie got in one in order to save the colony from a nuclear attack that wasn't going to happen.
Don't want to be that guy but gas was not used in WW2, the one thing that evolved from WW1 was mechanized warfare, chemical warfare was irrelevant at that point. The Zaku head is more similar to the Wehrmacht's Stahlhelm (in relation to a very specific variant of the zaku)
A problem I see in this video is how you reduce Zeon to just "space nazis" and that showing simpathetic Zeons requieres a redemption arc with people abandoning the army.
Both sides of the conflict can be really shitty as well as both sides can have good and bad people in them.
Nothing in War in the pocket would have happened if the Federation didn't bring the gundam to a neutral colony in secret, so this implies that the Feds broke an international law knowing that this could put innocents at risk. And the whole war itself it's also the Feds fault as well, their bad administration caused the whole Zeon movement, only that then the Zabi distorted Zeon's ideals of independence.
The point of Gundam in general is that war is the bad thing itself, not just the Zeon or the Federation. Both sides have people fighting for what they think is right or to protect their loved ones, both sides can do questionable decisions or downright war crimes as well as good actions to save people, but the tragedy is that war itself happened.
So it is not necessary to make Zeons defect to make them fully simpathetic. With showing them as humans who can feel the loss of their comrades or family, who can fear for the well being of their loved ones, who can have aspirations beside war or in general being more than just a one dimentional villain without morals is enough to make you think that in both sides of a war there are real people who would never do what they have done if there wasn't any war in the first place, and this was done since Gundam 79.
Even this OVA series says this with Bernie telling Al to not hate the Federation or the Zeons because in both sides there are people who fight for what they think it is right.
The only thing that sucks about this series is how they treat the GMs like they're disposable and make them seem weak.
I think the point of Zeon is that they were once fighting for something noble but over time got radicalized, Degwin Sodo Zabi was clearly portrayed as being anti Fascist and even tried to end the war after his son started saying fascist stuff in front of him. And it is stated by the narrator that Zeon started the war because they wanted independence, which it is completely selfish for the federation to not give them considering the infinite size of space. As for the Zaku looking like German gas masks, German gas masks look exactly the same as British gas masks so it is unclear to me what makes them look German. As the guy from war in the pocket said their are good people on both sides. I think it would be weird to say Zeons on a whole are Fascist when so many of them are shown to be either nice or even heroic. Such as the characters from MS Team where the main protagonist marries a Zeon or even in War in the Pocket where the Zeon works to stop a nuke. Despite all this Zeon has never had concentration camps, Zeon has never done anything that the federation wouldn't do.
Whose watching this in 2021? A big US film company needs to remake this into a live action film. The story and promises are so grounded compared to the other Gundam series. Always pictured a young Brad Pitt to play Bernie lol
NO. Keep War in the Pocket as far as possible from Hollywood. They'd fuck this masterpiece six ways from Sunday and then tell us to congratulate them for it.