What we need is standardised frame mounting with adapters for larger to smaller motors, universal battery packs and the opportunity to buy service/repair kits without voidong warranty. BASIC standards such as frame mounting gives older bikes (3-4 for eg) a chance to be ridden still but maybe with the latest motor/battery. Standard Plug & Play systems & universal displays - give us the choice to spec our bikes the way we can with analogue bikes.
@@richardandrews6299 in a world of design where motor must be as much integrated and sleek as possible, you want one large motor box with multi brackets to fit in any motor you like… and with the cybersecurity laws coming to be enforced, you want to have multiple suppliers batteries to talk with multiple suppliers motors and displays, out of the blue. And once anything happened on the system, at the first error code, who would be blamed? Motor brand or battery brand or display brand? The game of “it wasn’t me” starts…
Dream drive unit? ZF-90Nm has the greatest potential with its compact size for a nice 8 spd compact MGU and then throw on the DJI's wireless electronics.👊
Totally agree with your point Steve that it’s not just the motor but the whole package, a motor is there to get us up the hill who cares if I get there faster or slower than anyone else to me it’s about the down hills, and allowing me to ride as many trails as my body will allow me to, geometry, suspension , feel , agility fun and warranty are the key factors to me
I have a brose motor on my Levo. Good motor, died after a year, but replaced under warranty. Ride ith guys on all other motors and I think the Bosch is more powerful down low while still being efficient, as is the Yamaha. Regardless, I love my Levo and can’t get enough time in the saddle! Will be interesting to see what’s going to be released in 2025.
After my 1st Bosch Gen 2 that got 12,000 km, I haven't been able to get more than 5600 km out of the next 4. Now on #6 DU with crossed fingers which, is why I got a Yamaha to try out. A few thousand kms and running strong
Amflow, the power is crazy but it was the whole system that I was interested in, lite weight, fast charging and the customisation on the app! Early days at the moment!?
And make the marked much more expensive and impossible to work until we have less possibilities available and blame the government for not supporting bicycles? Good idea, don't you think?
What’s missing is leak detection…. It’s unforgivable that E-bike motors don’t have monitoring…… it’s old tech…. It’s cheap….. it could provide a service now signal … a few seals and bearings instead of a failed motor….. oil filled is another possibility. Reliability serviceability and longevity those are the issues manufacturers need to address….
I want to see other companies start selling motors in the Bosch CX mounting platform as well as their batteries, create a defacto standard so you have upgrade opportunities and more options to build custom setups from a frame, etc.
hm... thanks for the overview Steve, great to have this captured within a short video to remind us. Its interesting how DJI has became a challenger to all manufacturers especially Specialized which were the leading pioneers of complete integration. It seems you may have received save the dates from them as you expressing so much them 😉. Would love to see a new eBike from them which could be next "big" thing in eBike industry. But please, not fully automated...😅
Great video as always Steve, (looking cozy for the festive break, enjoy) Yamaha and Bosch on my rigs. Still think upping the limiter to 20mph/32kph would be of great benefit to me in between trails and on the fire roads here in Scotland!! 🤞🏻🤞🏻 Have a good one 🎄⛄🥂
2018 Brose (upgraded and sealed)x 3 plus a brand new spare motor, E8000+ a spare, TQ x1, and Just had to buy a DJI AVINOX AMFLOW because of the super technology and beautiful power. But the 2018 aluminium brose 1.3 is magnificent. Quiet ,smooth, powerful. What did brose know in 2018 that they don't know now.. E=mtb² or is the Amflow E =mtb³
Built my own 1 off eMTB... so, Bafang M510 for me.... and imo, best eMTB i've ever ridden! haha!! (biased ofcourse) - currently revamping this build to fully electronic (wheeltop) etc.. new Suntour durolux 38 forks, and a cheap chinese rear spring shock... (Magura MT5 brakes with 203 MDR-P discs) isn't BAFANG the biggest producer in the world??? no mention? (obviously means your not getting any freebies or paid by Bafang then..) haha... truth is the truth..
Steve i have watch too many of your videos lol your like a kid in a sweet shop...I have the TQ on the trek fuel Ex-e. I noticed Trek have added this motor to another of their bikes.. with a bigger battery.. I hope Trek have thought about us with only a 380 wh and made the 580 wh fitable to the Ex-e..
I have 2019 Scott Genius with Shimano E8000 and I've done more than 15500 kilometers by now, not a single problem, zero. Wish I could buy some of the new bikes but I don't have money right now. If I had it would be so hard to choose
I could live with 8 gears, never really get going fast enough on a long smooth decent to use the top gear, I do sometimes use 1st gear on a really steep hill, but could probably make 1st a 50, and range it down from there with bigger gaps in between. Would be nice to have a thicker chain and longer wearing cogs.
I think Bosch currently are the market leaders.....and then maybe Shimano. These seem to be on most of the brands generally. I have a Canyon spectral On E8000 motor and it's been great on reliability, ridden in very bad UK wet and muddy winters.....also well looked after I may add. I really want a pinion MGU but the price and lack of choice are a big stopping point at the moment, plus there's very little feedback from any owners out there.
The Pivot Shuttle SL is an amazing bike but the Fazua motor is pretty much junk, it spent 5 months in the workshop out of 18mnths and almost put me off eMTB completely. So I'd say yes the motor is important, along with it's backup and support. It also seems to me that the whole industry needs to be more accountable. If I buy a VW Amarok they don't make me go to Ford if I have an engine issue or Brembo if the brakes stop working. The bike maker has choosen that parts and should ultimately stand by them. I'm very lucky in that my local shop have been amazing with loan bikes, chasing up the issue and eventually providing a refund, if it wasn't for them I'd probably have given up.
Oh and Rocky Mountain are in trouble, you probably didn't know this at the time of filming....shame 😕 but no one sells then anywhere near me, which is probably to there detriment.....just don't see them out there. Oh and I believe they're pretty pricey to boot.
Sooo many great motors . can't ride them all so ,how to choose ? One interesting note about ZF is they were one of the early partners with Sachs when it first came out . Sams bikes tried to get a NOX bike from austria to review but was never sent one . Now he is still waiting to review the ZF , but still no bike . could it be that ZF doesn't want a bunch of reviews done on their bikes ? as to the Sachs , the down side is it is a bit cadence driven which is not good for quick changing of gears on technical rides ., however i've had that motor for 7 years now and still love it but i only cruise around town and on forest roads so the cadence thing is a non issue for me . the low cadence at full power on hills is incredible . my legs are barely moving but the bike is flying up the hills .
I have an e8000 on 2019 YT Decoy, I want to swap to a DJI. Those motor are only available MMFLOW. E8000 is a great motor I am really happy with it. My friends are running the ep8, 801 and the Bosch. They have a lot more adjustability.
Until dji came along it had a huge power advantage. And it had very little drag. And since it isn’t attached to the cranks if it dies or jams you still have a functional bike if you reroute the chain.
Moving forward, any motor that does not include the gearbox in a unit like Pinion is dead in the water. I could not imagine buying an e-bike in the future that does not have that.
It depends. If I can buy traditional emtb for 4k€ but have to chuck 7k€ for gearbox motor there's no way I'm paying that much more just for that. Maintaining drivetrain isn't that big of a hassle.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
What brand of motor do you currently have?
@@embn i bught a yt decoy with shimano ep 801 with xt elecronic shift unit and i love it. It was black friday sale. Cheers Happy Christmas.
Ye olde bosch on a 2016 Cube 160 Race ebike. 3rd motor. Its still good but the bike looks ancient nowadays, like riding a Penny Farthing.
Mgu
Giant Reign e+ 1 V1 2023, SyncDrive Pro2. Most of the time, anything above tour mode has more power than I need. Great battery range!
The brand you always say never ever buy. Bafang its 2018
What we need is standardised frame mounting with adapters for larger to smaller motors, universal battery packs and the opportunity to buy service/repair kits without voidong warranty.
BASIC standards such as frame mounting gives older bikes (3-4 for eg) a chance to be ridden still but maybe with the latest motor/battery.
Standard Plug & Play systems & universal displays - give us the choice to spec our bikes the way we can with analogue bikes.
@@richardandrews6299 in a world of design where motor must be as much integrated and sleek as possible, you want one large motor box with multi brackets to fit in any motor you like… and with the cybersecurity laws coming to be enforced, you want to have multiple suppliers batteries to talk with multiple suppliers motors and displays, out of the blue. And once anything happened on the system, at the first error code, who would be blamed? Motor brand or battery brand or display brand? The game of “it wasn’t me” starts…
Everybody knows this will never happen, the industry is not interested in anything that lengthens the life of any bike!!
Sounds like it would kill sales because many like us would not buy a new frame for a while. Unfortunately, money dictates what gets done.
Dream drive unit? ZF-90Nm has the greatest potential with its compact size for a nice 8 spd compact MGU and then throw on the DJI's wireless electronics.👊
After many Bosch and Brose,now I’m happy with Bafang BBSHD
Totally agree with your point Steve that it’s not just the motor but the whole package, a motor is there to get us up the hill who cares if I get there faster or slower than anyone else to me it’s about the down hills, and allowing me to ride as many trails as my body will allow me to, geometry, suspension , feel , agility fun and warranty are the key factors to me
I have a brose motor on my Levo. Good motor, died after a year, but replaced under warranty. Ride ith guys on all other motors and I think the Bosch is more powerful down low while still being efficient, as is the Yamaha. Regardless, I love my Levo and can’t get enough time in the saddle! Will be interesting to see what’s going to be released in 2025.
After my 1st Bosch Gen 2 that got 12,000 km, I haven't been able to get more than 5600 km out of the next 4. Now on #6 DU with crossed fingers which, is why I got a Yamaha to try out. A few thousand kms and running strong
They need to start selling Spare parts/ service kits. Though they are good they go wrong quickly without maintenance
@@N000-reply as long as you don’t power wash the motor in the critical areas of bearings, for instance a Yamaha motor is sold maintenance-free
Bosch Performance CX (gen 4)
Amflow, the power is crazy but it was the whole system that I was interested in, lite weight, fast charging and the customisation on the app! Early days at the moment!?
The government of the European Union should pass a law that obliges manufacturers of all e-bikes engines to produce and sell spare parts.
And make the marked much more expensive and impossible to work until we have less possibilities available and blame the government for not supporting bicycles? Good idea, don't you think?
+ standard frame mounting points and battery interoperability (so a bad experience with a motor manufacturer doesn't mean a new frame)
@@ThePatschau because of that I have chosen BAFANG, so can buy every spare on ALI, or a motor, which costs 600$
Right to repair is fundamental
What’s missing is leak detection…. It’s unforgivable that E-bike motors don’t have monitoring…… it’s old tech…. It’s cheap….. it could provide a service now signal … a few seals and bearings instead of a failed motor….. oil filled is another possibility. Reliability serviceability and longevity those are the issues manufacturers need to address….
@@robertpatrick3350 oil filled motor means maintenance intervals and oil change…
Reliability is king…and repairability queen
Who is leading the e-bike motor battle…. Conclusion. No one. Brilliant
Bosch is the leader for many good reasons.
Unfortunately very few of these seem to be available in the US.
Same issue here in Canazuela
10:40 ah great thinking. I just hope one day drivetrain manufacturers will also come to this conclusion.
Please tell me what kind of bike is this with a Polini engine at 7:04?
I want to see other companies start selling motors in the Bosch CX mounting platform as well as their batteries, create a defacto standard so you have upgrade opportunities and more options to build custom setups from a frame, etc.
@@noControl556 which is not the smartest platform out there, in terms of size, volume and position of hangers
Has to be Yamaha for me as reliability is key.
This!
Mine too
hm... thanks for the overview Steve, great to have this captured within a short video to remind us.
Its interesting how DJI has became a challenger to all manufacturers especially Specialized which were the leading pioneers of complete integration. It seems you may have received save the dates from them as you expressing so much them 😉. Would love to see a new eBike from them which could be next "big" thing in eBike industry.
But please, not fully automated...😅
Great video as always Steve, (looking cozy for the festive break, enjoy)
Yamaha and Bosch on my rigs. Still think upping the limiter to 20mph/32kph would be of great benefit to me in between trails and on the fire roads here in Scotland!! 🤞🏻🤞🏻
Have a good one 🎄⛄🥂
2018 Brose (upgraded and sealed)x 3 plus a brand new spare motor, E8000+ a spare, TQ x1, and Just had to buy a DJI AVINOX AMFLOW because of the super technology and beautiful power. But the 2018 aluminium brose 1.3 is magnificent. Quiet ,smooth, powerful. What did brose know in 2018 that they don't know now..
E=mtb² or is the Amflow E =mtb³
Built my own 1 off eMTB... so, Bafang M510 for me.... and imo, best eMTB i've ever ridden! haha!! (biased ofcourse) - currently revamping this build to fully electronic (wheeltop) etc.. new Suntour durolux 38 forks, and a cheap chinese rear spring shock... (Magura MT5 brakes with 203 MDR-P discs) isn't BAFANG the biggest producer in the world??? no mention? (obviously means your not getting any freebies or paid by Bafang then..) haha... truth is the truth..
They never mention Bafang, I'm riding one as well and 5400 miles in its doing great.
Steve i have watch too many of your videos lol your like a kid in a sweet shop...I have the TQ on the trek fuel Ex-e. I noticed Trek have added this motor to another of their bikes.. with a bigger battery.. I hope Trek have thought about us with only a 380 wh and made the 580 wh fitable to the Ex-e..
I have 2019 Scott Genius with Shimano E8000 and I've done more than 15500 kilometers by now, not a single problem, zero. Wish I could buy some of the new bikes but I don't have money right now. If I had it would be so hard to choose
Do we need 12 gears not with fresh battery but as battery ages yes
I could live with 8 gears, never really get going fast enough on a long smooth decent to use the top gear, I do sometimes use 1st gear on a really steep hill, but could probably make 1st a 50, and range it down from there with bigger gaps in between. Would be nice to have a thicker chain and longer wearing cogs.
The good ol work horse EP8. Left out. Ain’t the fastest overrun sucks but it keeps chugging along. 🎉
Polini I think Steve
I think Bosch currently are the market leaders.....and then maybe Shimano. These seem to be on most of the brands generally. I have a Canyon spectral On E8000 motor and it's been great on reliability, ridden in very bad UK wet and muddy winters.....also well looked after I may add.
I really want a pinion MGU but the price and lack of choice are a big stopping point at the moment, plus there's very little feedback from any owners out there.
Standards!
The Pivot Shuttle SL is an amazing bike but the Fazua motor is pretty much junk, it spent 5 months in the workshop out of 18mnths and almost put me off eMTB completely. So I'd say yes the motor is important, along with it's backup and support. It also seems to me that the whole industry needs to be more accountable. If I buy a VW Amarok they don't make me go to Ford if I have an engine issue or Brembo if the brakes stop working. The bike maker has choosen that parts and should ultimately stand by them. I'm very lucky in that my local shop have been amazing with loan bikes, chasing up the issue and eventually providing a refund, if it wasn't for them I'd probably have given up.
Oh and Rocky Mountain are in trouble, you probably didn't know this at the time of filming....shame 😕 but no one sells then anywhere near me, which is probably to there detriment.....just don't see them out there. Oh and I believe they're pretty pricey to boot.
We need more dealers for the motors it’s ok buying them but at least Bosch and some others will sort them some it’s a nightmare to get the mended
I have the Bosch CX Gen.4, next will be a belt bike for sure (Pinion MGU). In my eyes all new chain ebikes are dead on arrival now.
Sooo many great motors . can't ride them all so ,how to choose ?
One interesting note about ZF is they were one of the early partners with Sachs when it first came out . Sams bikes tried to get a NOX bike from austria to review but was never sent one . Now he is still waiting to review the ZF , but still no bike . could it be that ZF doesn't want a bunch of reviews done on their bikes ?
as to the Sachs , the down side is it is a bit cadence driven which is not good for quick changing of gears on technical rides .,
however i've had that motor for 7 years now and still love it but i only cruise around town and on forest roads so the cadence thing is a non issue for me . the low cadence at full power on hills is incredible . my legs are barely moving but the bike is flying up the hills .
Agree with regards to gears, 11 speed is high enough.
Shimano is the worst motor, cant find parts or motor in amazon.
Shimano ep801 is not good i have moterra sl1 and is been in the shop more them what i ride it to many issues disappointing of shimano
MGU...
12 speed makes sense on an ebike. Didnt like it on my mtb.
I have an e8000 on 2019 YT Decoy, I want to swap to a DJI. Those motor are only available MMFLOW. E8000 is a great motor I am really happy with it. My friends are running the ep8, 801 and the Bosch. They have a lot more adjustability.
Dyname 4.0 is king...
It’s the king ? Wow ok. What’s the things it leads on ? Havnt heard of it
Until dji came along it had a huge power advantage. And it had very little drag. And since it isn’t attached to the cranks if it dies or jams you still have a functional bike if you reroute the chain.
@@afoolishman12 oh. Ok not king then. Different and not comparable. Thanks
Definitely don't need 12 gears. I have SRAM 12S drivetrain but I'm pretty sure I have never used gears 1-2 and 12. I'm almost 100% sure of that...
Moving forward, any motor that does not include the gearbox in a unit like Pinion is dead in the water. I could not imagine buying an e-bike in the future that does not have that.
It depends. If I can buy traditional emtb for 4k€ but have to chuck 7k€ for gearbox motor there's no way I'm paying that much more just for that. Maintaining drivetrain isn't that big of a hassle.
BOSCH is germany ...SHIMANO is japan...BAFANG is copy ..other model Panasonic Japan..BROSE germany