In short, no. The longer answer would be No, the bike manufacturers will save money, but they won't reduce the price points, not now that they have established a "norm" with the current ridiculous pricing scheme of pedal bikes. But still very interesting.
Don't care, I wish titanium frames would get cheaper but that is never going to happen considering how they have to be made and how titanium is refined.
GCN Tech they already are cheaper with those cheapo Chinese no QC carbon but some chinese low Qc control are very good and very good priced too. Except from one or two manufacturers that Hambini know about 😁
@F1ForFun Oh really do enlighten me on how production cost declines (things have gotten cheaper and cheaper for years) have made the retail price lower then. Because I was under the impression all major manufacturers employed cheap ass labor and materials from shithole countries to make maximum profit....but please explain.
Ugh yeah I remember my high school science teacher making this mistake as well, I cringed. GCN should start using kilopascals for tire pressure so people get more familiar with the SI unit.
Bottle cages on De Rosa looks like a heart!! He definitely put more thought to it than you think. Those bottle cages, in that color, on this bike? That can't be a coincidence...
Its a '65 Speed Twin Single Amal . Not a Bonnie or Daytona (Both duel Carb)..And yes the Knee Pads are bolted to the Home Market tank ((Bigger than American Market Tank)) ..With Whitworth Series Bolts ..The careful observer will also see the TT Pipes .
The materials cost of a carbon frame is already cheaper than a comparable aluminum frame; most of what consumers pay for today is the labor to build it. Carbon will become cheaper than aluminum once they figure out how to automate production or create a faster production process.
@@steveco1800 The injection system that was floating around Tapei is very similar to the old themoplastic frames we had in the 90's. Their big weakness was that the fiber strands could only be as long as the injection pellets. Where as on a traditional carbon frame, you can have continuous fibers as long as you want - for instance the entire length of a down tube.
@@steveco1800 Correct,you cannot get to the properties of a hand layed up continous fiber composite, but you can get something good enough for lower end bikes.
I really enjoyed this weeks Tech Show. Can't put my finger on what i enjoyed more, Chris's beard or Ollie's facial expressions. Oh and the Tech stuff wasn't too shabby either.
The specialized bike (upgraded) isn't the same frame as the original picture. you can tell by the spacing of the downtube and toptube as they connect to the head tube. The gap is massive in the finished bike. odd.
Hi not so sure about injection moulding frames, I’ve been using carbon composite for the last 25 years, strength and rigidity come from bio directional fibres and longitudinal fibres used in the correct layup. They may be able to produce injected moulded components but a frame ?
When over sized aluminum frames first came to market, it cost more than steel. Now aluminum is everywhere and current steel frames cost more than aluminum. Complete carbon fiber bikes are far lower in price than the starting prices of bare carbon frames. Trickle down effect keeps going. Carbon fiber frames will take another step in the sub-structure composites to make them even better.
The real question is will the structural stability and support of injection molding be as strong and as good a quality at hand layered and formed carbon frame sets? It will be less expensive but will it hold up?
I just hope manufacturers would made carbon bikes a bit more durable for us non-pros that don't care about 500g's of weight. Instead they state that you can't do a bunnyhop as it could crack a frame. They won't be cheaper though, thermosets will soon get a nice tax, when asian countires stop importing our waste.
So little of that plastic sent overseas for recycling is actually recycled, it's not going to impact the bulk price for those materials. For these type of thermoset applications they're not going to be using recycled material anyways, the pain in reprocessing is not worth it on the manufacturing side. In a high volume low performance application that's where you start to see the recycled materials come into play.
@@otm646 agree completely. What I meant to say was once those countries stop accepting our waste, we'll have to start acting more responsibly and prices of carbon composites will go up
the cost for making the carbon bike will be decreased for the manufacturer. but my prediction will be: the price will never be cheaper than the aluminium bike since the carbon bike is usually the flagship product of the manufacturer. And the manufacturer will still maintain the price if not slightly cheaper since the demand is there and they still need to sell the aluminium bike to the consumer as the economy version of the bike. so... in a nutshell, marketing strategy.
FACT: Easton does not make EC90 carbon saddle that looks like Specialized Power Arc knock-offs. You can search this online ("EC90 saddle") and on the first page, they are all coming from that e-commerce site we all know who.
it may be carbon, and it may be cheaper, and it may even be strong/stiff - but how heavy is it? especially that injection molded one. and do they still have control over directional strength?
it would be nice if you have in one of your superb videos the cost structure of the bikes that are on the market now i.e. in groups like: 1000, 2000, 4000 GBP and more with the split (in %) between: 1) frame + fork etc., 2) derrailures 3) wheels, 4) tires, 5) rest of the equipment - I am quite sure we would be surprised where the real cost sits and where is the point number 6: marketing and cost of selling ;-)
I would imagine that if they figure out how to lower the production costs of manufacturing carbon bikes that they WILL NOT lower the price to the consumer by one penny:(
in a free market world the price is guaranteed to go lower. one company will try to undercut the market price to get more sales and market share which will lead to a fierce battle of under cutting until a new stable low price is reached.
That Raleigh. At 14 years old I used to ride from Wythenshawe in Manchester to my sisters house in Melton Mowbray on a white one of those. Crikey, how times have changed. Could you imagine a 14 year old doing that now? I mean riding a steel Raleigh. Not a hope, it's all carbon this Di2 that. The ride was a bugger though.
I’m rather smitten by that De Rosa bike and was wondering about a tiny detail... does anyone know the brand of the disc rotors? They look very bling and would do well on my BMC...
More important question: Can a carbon bike be recycled effectively to reduce its impact on the earth? Probably not. Aluminium smelting isn't great for the planet, but at least we can reuse what we've already got.
Howwwww did Chris hold a straight face at the butt plug there?!?!?! Gonna miss him, both him and James were a slow grow on me but damn they may be my favourites now... especially after the penny farthing punishing they took!!!! Good luck bossing St Pirran, cool kit but I bet he keeps a stash of assos GCN swag still!
#AskGCNTech Hi John, how come we don't see new aero carbon wheels with aluminium braking track these days. Also what are your recommendations, pros and cons about these wheels. Love to see a few reviews on these type of wheels especially the campagnolo bullets and the duraace c60 wheels. I see a that 95% reviews by people, on shopping sites, who have bought and used them to be very positive but cannot seem to find any reviews by experienced reviewers like yourself. Love the show and thank you.
Does the ultra light outfits come with sun protection or will they cover users for sunburn and skin cancers. At least you want have to worry about tan lines.
I'm looking to get a Merida Speeder 100 or a CX 100, or maaaybe the entry level gravel bike.. the Speeder 100 seem to be best bang for buck, but I'd prefer a dropbar to a MTB style straight one. Maybe I put a narrower bar on it and be happy, will mainly be used for training and urban travel but I'll probably go over gravel and dirt too a bit, I love to go a bit nuts if I can. First, I need to get reasonably fit again. I have an old Specialized P3 made in to a single speed and its so hard to peddle I just roll backwards in to my own door as I try to leave my home every time... :( its 15 odd years old atleast... I removed the gears because they where giving me trubble even after sending the bike to a shop to fix. I just figured, I need a reliable bike... also put some super thicc semi slick looking tires on it. They could rival something found on a Yamaha R1 rear swing! xD
There are affordable carbon frames, its called aliexpress. The only thing expensive now is the brand that comes on commercially assembled bikes. You can make a decent carbon bike for under 1000 quid with current techniques. It's not the current manufacturing techniques keeping prices up. Its the middle men.
#askgcntech Great videos on winter maintenance and kit to wear. Can you make a video on what to wear and how to layer kit for weather that is -10 to -25 degrees C? Thinking of putting some studded wide tires on the gravel bike for some frozen lake rides but I need to know what to wear for effort rides.
Been using chinese carbon frames and wheels for years, never had an issue. Do your homework first is the key! Only cracked frame i’ve had was a Specialized!,,
Will carbon bikes soon be cheaper than aluminium? Let us know what you think!
In short, no. The longer answer would be No, the bike manufacturers will save money, but they won't reduce the price points, not now that they have established a "norm" with the current ridiculous pricing scheme of pedal bikes. But still very interesting.
Don't care, I wish titanium frames would get cheaper but that is never going to happen considering how they have to be made and how titanium is refined.
GCN Tech they already are cheaper with those cheapo Chinese no QC carbon but some chinese low Qc control are very good and very good priced too. Except from one or two manufacturers that Hambini know about 😁
@F1ForFun Oh really do enlighten me on how production cost declines (things have gotten cheaper and cheaper for years) have made the retail price lower then. Because I was under the impression all major manufacturers employed cheap ass labor and materials from shithole countries to make maximum profit....but please explain.
@@riggermortisfpv526 you need to cut down on your red meat !!!!!!
: I agree with Chris on what this looks like.
😂🤣
Explains how the carbon pellets got in there ... hydrate ffs.
Seb ew !😬
No one has broached the subject as to how Chris is so familiar with said objects....😂😂😂
I’m sure there was a lot of “analysis” that went into that carbon injection technique
Return of the plug 🤘
1:40 That's a capital M, so it's Mega not milli.
Love the show, thank you for the content!
Yep. Thought I was hearing things again. Was going to make the correction but you beat me to it.
Ugh yeah I remember my high school science teacher making this mistake as well, I cringed. GCN should start using kilopascals for tire pressure so people get more familiar with the SI unit.
Beat me to it
Yeah I thought one of those guys had a PhD in some sort of science. 😏
I love the crazy "RINGING THE BELLLL"
This Kona is so nice looking bike, I just rewind to see it again after watching whole video.
Bottle cages on De Rosa looks like a heart!! He definitely put more thought to it than you think. Those bottle cages, in that color, on this bike? That can't be a coincidence...
You mean to tell me that Greg LeMond is going to revolutionize the bike world? AGAIN? Sounds like the Greg LeMond I know...
A thumbs up for Oli's reaction during the super nice segment!
We need more peeps like Chris! Giving supernice all around and not giving into Olie's nitpicking!
I like how real Ollie's reaction was after Chris said his education wasn't a waste after all.
Probably the best episode on GCN Tech so far, I love this channel x
There is something really satisfying about seeing that Raleigh going strong after 50 years. I'd give it an ULTRA NICE and RING THE GONG!
@16:26, Police come for noise complaint! Best bike vault yet!!!
I love the enthusiasm Ollie exudes when the bell is rung for a super nice bike.
That's an original Bonnie. Drum brakes and that tank knee pads are bolted on not glued. 😉👍
Not to mention the carburetors.
Exactly, Amal carbs and unmistakable crankcase
Its a '65 Speed Twin Single Amal . Not a Bonnie or Daytona (Both duel Carb)..And yes the Knee Pads are bolted to the Home Market tank ((Bigger than American Market Tank)) ..With Whitworth Series Bolts ..The careful observer will also see the TT Pipes .
The materials cost of a carbon frame is already cheaper than a comparable aluminum frame; most of what consumers pay for today is the labor to build it. Carbon will become cheaper than aluminum once they figure out how to automate production or create a faster production process.
Hopefully they don't compromise on the layup too much making them bone shaking like the cheaper frames can be.
@@steveco1800 The injection system that was floating around Tapei is very similar to the old themoplastic frames we had in the 90's. Their big weakness was that the fiber strands could only be as long as the injection pellets. Where as on a traditional carbon frame, you can have continuous fibers as long as you want - for instance the entire length of a down tube.
@@cup_and_cone Ah guess it'll need more resin and be heavier then...
@@steveco1800 Correct,you cannot get to the properties of a hand layed up continous fiber composite, but you can get something good enough for lower end bikes.
The Kona is absolutely stunning!!
What a job on that Kona! Looks fantastic
I'm so glad Chris gave it some beans with the bell 🛎 😊👍
I really enjoyed this weeks Tech Show. Can't put my finger on what i enjoyed more, Chris's beard or Ollie's facial expressions. Oh and the Tech stuff wasn't too shabby either.
I absolutely love it when Chris is in charge of the bell,if only to see the expression on Ollies face 😂
'Super Nice' show! Thanks guys :-)
These two..... so much fun to watch!
Such a happy sprinter, Chris :')
Love the vibes this week
I like your 'save the rim brake sticker!'
Nice bell work Chris. Ollie looked like he really appreciated it 😊
finally I bike vault I liked! Next time both in lederhosen to match with the bell and it's perfect ;-)
13:16 Red on white Bianchi. That's not a frame bag at the BB, it's a inner tube rolled up and looks like a black zip tie is holding it in place.
The specialized bike (upgraded) isn't the same frame as the original picture. you can tell by the spacing of the downtube and toptube as they connect to the head tube. The gap is massive in the finished bike. odd.
Very entertaining GCN Tech show.
The tech show just keeps on getting better and funnier. Nice to see an old Bonnie too, come on guys, you can tell the difference.
Thats one heck of a bar end 2:45
That Kona rebuild is perfect.
Hi not so sure about injection moulding frames, I’ve been using carbon composite for the last 25 years, strength and rigidity come from bio directional fibres and longitudinal fibres used in the correct layup. They may be able to produce injected moulded components but a frame ?
Jesus that De Rosa is bloody lovely
When over sized aluminum frames first came to market, it cost more than steel. Now aluminum is everywhere and current steel frames cost more than aluminum. Complete carbon fiber bikes are far lower in price than the starting prices of bare carbon frames. Trickle down effect keeps going. Carbon fiber frames will take another step in the sub-structure composites to make them even better.
I could watch hours of the bike vault
More affordable carbon bikes? Bring it on!
As long as there is the CAAD series...I don't care if they become. Caads are better than many carbons.
Go Deakin Uni! Great to see the Aussie Universities leading.
Let’s hope the manufacturing saving is passed on to customers rather than $ margin gains.
Ollie! That Triumph!!! awwww I wanted to know more about it! Maybe next time....
“Wait a minute! That saddle looks like an appendage of its own!” Y’all had me rolling😂 Ring the bell!
Just wait until you discovery comedy programmes, you won't survive.
Come on, Ollie, the cow bell is so much fun to ring. Love it
Go to 9:20 and vote for Alex. A bloody 14 year old did that. That’s amazing!
The hatred of the bell makes me laugh so much. But this time my wife asked if I was ok after gun splitting laughter. 😂😂😂🤣😂😂
Just loved the Bike Vault this week. Oli, what is your degree ? Thanks KB.
The real question is will the structural stability and support of injection molding be as strong and as good a quality at hand layered and formed carbon frame sets? It will be less expensive but will it hold up?
The markup on higher end bikes is so high! It’s about time prices drop
When climbing, riding your chain on a 50t at the front and 28t at the back, will this eventually cause the chain to snap or can chains cope?
Was devastated by the lack of Ollie Trivia on the motorbike.
I just hope manufacturers would made carbon bikes a bit more durable for us non-pros that don't care about 500g's of weight. Instead they state that you can't do a bunnyhop as it could crack a frame. They won't be cheaper though, thermosets will soon get a nice tax, when asian countires stop importing our waste.
So little of that plastic sent overseas for recycling is actually recycled, it's not going to impact the bulk price for those materials. For these type of thermoset applications they're not going to be using recycled material anyways, the pain in reprocessing is not worth it on the manufacturing side. In a high volume low performance application that's where you start to see the recycled materials come into play.
@@otm646 agree completely. What I meant to say was once those countries stop accepting our waste, we'll have to start acting more responsibly and prices of carbon composites will go up
What about bike racks at home. Mounted on the wall? By the top bar or standing on the back wheel?
SUPER NICE Edition!
Great show
For thin beards I recommend "men only" beard fertilizer. To prevent bacterial/fungal growth between the hair use beard-o-cide!
the cost for making the carbon bike will be decreased for the manufacturer. but my prediction will be: the price will never be cheaper than the aluminium bike since the carbon bike is usually the flagship product of the manufacturer. And the manufacturer will still maintain the price if not slightly cheaper since the demand is there and they still need to sell the aluminium bike to the consumer as the economy version of the bike. so... in a nutshell, marketing strategy.
FACT: Easton does not make EC90 carbon saddle that looks like Specialized Power Arc knock-offs. You can search this online ("EC90 saddle") and on the first page, they are all coming from that e-commerce site we all know who.
11:42 that saddle looks like it has brewer's droop.
Great interaction between these 2 - haha!
it may be carbon, and it may be cheaper, and it may even be strong/stiff - but how heavy is it? especially that injection molded one. and do they still have control over directional strength?
it would be nice if you have in one of your superb videos the cost structure of the bikes that are on the market now i.e. in groups like: 1000, 2000, 4000 GBP and more with the split (in %) between: 1) frame + fork etc., 2) derrailures 3) wheels, 4) tires, 5) rest of the equipment - I am quite sure we would be surprised where the real cost sits and where is the point number 6: marketing and cost of selling ;-)
I would imagine that if they figure out how to lower the production costs of manufacturing carbon bikes that they WILL NOT lower the price to the consumer by one penny:(
in a free market world the price is guaranteed to go lower. one company will try to undercut the market price to get more sales and market share which will lead to a fierce battle of under cutting until a new stable low price is reached.
That Raleigh. At 14 years old I used to ride from Wythenshawe in Manchester to my sisters house in Melton Mowbray on a white one of those. Crikey, how times have changed. Could you imagine a 14 year old doing that now? I mean riding a steel Raleigh. Not a hope, it's all carbon this Di2 that. The ride was a bugger though.
Are you plugging carbon fibre now?
Your mystery man that didn't win looks to be from Philadelphia! The Philly Art museum is in the background ;)
After what Armstrong and Trek did to him I hope Greg LeMond's new company is a huge success.
Crazy light clothing. Aerogel kits next?
2:45 you'd need a wizards sleeve for that 😲
GCN Tech: After Dark.
I’m rather smitten by that De Rosa bike and was wondering about a tiny detail... does anyone know the brand of the disc rotors? They look very bling and would do well on my BMC...
John , when you was at the euro bike show. You showed us viewers a neat bell that rubber strapped onto the bars . Can you remember the brand ? Name ?
More important question: Can a carbon bike be recycled effectively to reduce its impact on the earth? Probably not. Aluminium smelting isn't great for the planet, but at least we can reuse what we've already got.
This is exactly what they said in the video - that new technology may probably allow to recycle it. Why do people comment without watching?
Like Adrian said , it should drop the prices along time ago.
@2:40: Chris shows his true under cover colours....
Howwwww did Chris hold a straight face at the butt plug there?!?!?! Gonna miss him, both him and James were a slow grow on me but damn they may be my favourites now... especially after the penny farthing punishing they took!!!! Good luck bossing St Pirran, cool kit but I bet he keeps a stash of assos GCN swag still!
Nice Video! As always🤘👍
Butt what is that container?
For?
And this week on Chris rings the bell... Chris rings the bell! You get a super nice! And you get a super nice! And you! And you!
5 minutes to go but this Tech Show is amazing :D I’ve laughed a lot :D
Is it possible to convert a 3x crankset to a 2x ?
The cheapest carbon frame fullbike that I can get that's not from a chinese brand is around $680 in my country, with Shimano Sora groupset.
De Rosa with Ultegra groupset is kind of like a Dom Perignon bottle filled with Budweiser. How could you possibly give it a ring?
Thumbs up for British Racing Green.
Tipton is right near me :)
David Gerchman where are you from
Alex Tebbe Hanford
David Gerchman where is that
#AskGCNTech Hi John, how come we don't see new aero carbon wheels with aluminium braking track these days. Also what are your recommendations, pros and cons about these wheels. Love to see a few reviews on these type of wheels especially the campagnolo bullets and the duraace c60 wheels. I see a that 95% reviews by people, on shopping sites, who have bought and used them to be very positive but cannot seem to find any reviews by experienced reviewers like yourself. Love the show and thank you.
There are already many carbon frames you can buy direct from China that are cheaper than many big brand aluminum frames.
Funny, I put knobby tires on Sirrus Elite and raced on cross on it.
Are you not able to discuss that the bike on the new zwift advert is probably the new canyon aeroad?
2:30-ish, carbon bits container... how many times did you have to shoot this segment ? 😂 😆 😝
Does the ultra light outfits come with sun protection or will they cover users for sunburn and skin cancers. At least you want have to worry about tan lines.
I'm looking to get a Merida Speeder 100 or a CX 100, or maaaybe the entry level gravel bike.. the Speeder 100 seem to be best bang for buck, but I'd prefer a dropbar to a MTB style straight one. Maybe I put a narrower bar on it and be happy, will mainly be used for training and urban travel but I'll probably go over gravel and dirt too a bit, I love to go a bit nuts if I can. First, I need to get reasonably fit again. I have an old Specialized P3 made in to a single speed and its so hard to peddle I just roll backwards in to my own door as I try to leave my home every time... :( its 15 odd years old atleast... I removed the gears because they where giving me trubble even after sending the bike to a shop to fix. I just figured, I need a reliable bike... also put some super thicc semi slick looking tires on it. They could rival something found on a Yamaha R1 rear swing! xD
There are affordable carbon frames, its called aliexpress. The only thing expensive now is the brand that comes on commercially assembled bikes. You can make a decent carbon bike for under 1000 quid with current techniques. It's not the current manufacturing techniques keeping prices up. Its the middle men.
I hope so. I want to buy a nice mountain bike to park next to my regular commuter/road bike.
This episode had some innuendos from Opie :D haha
#askgcntech Great videos on winter maintenance and kit to wear. Can you make a video on what to wear and how to layer kit for weather that is -10 to -25 degrees C? Thinking of putting some studded wide tires on the gravel bike for some frozen lake rides but I need to know what to wear for effort rides.
More affordable carbon fiber bikes = more affordable carbon fiber for cars. Which is a VERY good thing.
one more rule: send bike photo when Chris has the bell
now that's a big plug...
If you buy from China carbon is already cheaper.
Enjoy snapping a fork.
Been using chinese carbon frames and wheels for years, never had an issue. Do your homework first is the key! Only cracked frame i’ve had was a Specialized!,,
@@phillycheesetake Pretty much all those fancy expensive bikes from super barnds are from China (incl. Taiwan) too, you know?
@@julmeissonnier "China (incl. Taiwan)"
Try again bud, those are two separate countries.