Unfortunately - because the RUclips space is very influenced by manufacturers and retailers trying to sell tube amps - it's rare to hear an articulate argument for digital models, but of course you're right. One caveat is that if you use digital models you have to respect them like the real thing: you wouldn't buy ten tube amps at one go and expect to master them and if you're going to get the best out of digital models you have to spend time understanding each model.
Sordel I wish I could give this more thumbs up. Why does everybody understand that the presets sound like crap, but not understand that the 8 gajillion adjustable parameters take some time to really figure out? Tube amp guys spend a lifetime swapping tube brands and speakers, pedals and microphones. Then they give up when faced with s few sliders on a computer screen...
@@Newnodrogbob The main reason for these types preferring tube amps is the simplicity involved with getting a great tone with no hassle. Its not wrong, there are all type of guitarists in this world and not all of them want to fuddle with menu diving and tons or tons of settings on a PC. Daryl Hall explained it perfectly once, his creativity is instantly sapped when he has to even "boot up" a mixer to lay down tracks. He just wants to play, pure and simple and a good tube amp gets you there instantly. That being said, I'm a director of IT for the past 10 years and I love PCs, but I hate using them in a live situation. Modeling amps are a good way to avoid that but still require a lot of dedication to learn how to dial it in and edit presets properly.
KC My point wasn't as different from yours as you pretend. I wasn't arguing that anyone needs ten digital amp models: I was saying that if you recognise an amp model as a model rather than a preset you would want to explore the range of tones available from it the same way that you would if you had an actual amp. A lot of people have option paralysis because in the digital domain they have so many effects, amps etc. and feel that they “can't get a good tone” with any of them. Turning off most of those features and working with restricted options (like someone who has just bought a single amp) is the way forward. This is especially relevant to Chords of Orion since the e.p. project is based in the idea of using a common signal path for all songs. As for the superiority of tube tone ... well yes, of course, why on earth would these digital models be of tube amps were that not widely recognised?
KC Maybe it's the problem with YT comments sections but you sound so angry about this ... like you're desperate to have an argument with someone on the merits of tube amps vs. digital models. Maybe someone else will give you the passionate debate that you're longing for ... maybe someone more easily riled than I am. I'm just not willing to die on this hill; I use digital models because they're more practical for me personally but I have no problem with agreeing that tube amps are the gold standard for guitar tone.
Best of both worlds currently: When I record in my home studio I use a SM57 on my vox ac15 and then also split the signal twice. Once before it hits the amp input ( after the pedals ) and the second signal is direct from the guitar, before hitting any pedals. The challenge in mixing is to allow for slight differences in the recordings and align them , but it gives a massive sound that is not too muddy. Using a mooer IR loader on the pedal board gives flexibility when playing live to leave the amp at home. Great content Bill, love the channel.
For home recording I think a hybrid setup is the way to go. I keep all dirt and gain analog. Many different dirt pedals and pre-amps, you can find a bunch of tube pre-amps from russian builders, I guess because there is such a surplus of military valves still availible there. One I use a lot now is a recreation of a JTM-45 (ArthurGuitarSound), but I also have a Blackface Twin Reverb one which is really nice (ShiftLine) and a Sunn Model-T (CorrectSound). But use impluse reverb cab simulations and such along with it. And iso-cabs. Sorta modular. Wouldn't wanna lug it all around for a live situation though or really slim down the selection just for the set to not end up with a Kevin Shields size pedalboard.
I agree with you Bill, I made the switch back in 1993 when I purchased one of the first multi- effects to offer modeling, the Zoom 9030. I was able to develop my signature sound with that, and now I use the Helix with many options and you know, sometimes, I don't use an amp at all! Even all my die hard vintage lovers cannot believe the tones just through my studio rig with just a little compression and verb. It will give you chills. It is truly astonishing how far modeling has come, and the sound quality of effects themselves as the sample rates and bit depth has gotten better.
Tube amps are temperamental and some times sound not so good. My signal chain from Guitar is SP Compressor ->VoX tonelab SE(valve/tube amp modeling...warm and round) -> HX Stomp-> stereo out to 2xAMT Tubcake 3W solid state mini amps -> One DIY stereo speaker cabinet with 2 different speakers. Thanks for the videos!
Rather than evolve, I devolved. 6 guitars into 5 guitar preamps, 3 stereo power amps, 2 heads to 9 speakers outside the house in an ISO with 8 mics. 4 analog outboard preamps, 4 digital preamps controlled by a Switchblade & MIDI pedal. One button switches to the chosen route. A second Switchblade for 4 Eventide Harmonizers, 1 TC 1210 Chorus routing back into 20x20 RME interfaces all conveniently controlled by a Surface Pro 4 i7, 8gb. MIDI switches everything, with one button. Can add/remove Chorus, or additional Eventides, but the real beauty are the two 87sec samplers for looped jams. All digital routing, MIDI switched. Like a Bradshaw rig, but no effects are preamp direct, they're all post speaker for improved realism. It was all started by an ADA MP1. I tried and tried to get sounds direct, but never learned IRs, still don't know how to use them. So I started adding amps and speakers, then mics and mic preamps. It's not a complex rig to use, you never have to plug anything in, nor remove cables. Just one button access to desired routes. To simplify the recording process, tracking channels subroute to summed channels, so no matter what speaker or mic is in use they sum to a recordable stereo dry track. This way, when you're recording, you can just change patch and instant switch between gain characteristics, or effects if desired. Switchblades changed my way of thinking. There is no need to plug anything in, just setup the patch. Kids got older and moved out, so I got serious about recording. The MP1 never sounded better. Not only did I get my Marshall & Mesa, I grabbed a Rockman XPR from my youth. Pre production prototype. It was like I had arrived at the end of the Rainbow. Everyone was selling their rack gear, and I had waited 20-30 years to try them. Like you, when the kids were in the house, I had stopped playing guitar for many years during their youth, strictly Dad mode. Now its my turn.
@@chordsoforion It doesn't sound any better than what most people record these days. Like your recent extended play you just uploaded, that sounds immense. Or people who use AxeFX III units, they're more than capable. They're amazing! This was my way of developing an ear for recording. In order to hear what a speaker sounds like I needed to compare it to 6 others. In order to know what makes a Mesa Rectifier unique, I needed two channels of Recto with different speakers. In order to get the best from my MP1 it needed to be tried through multiple power amps. Because I'm no expert. Hobbyist musician. Empty nester.
Bill, I actually picked up an Eleven Rack because of your channel a few years ago. Even with the crappy RUclips bit rate, I was shocked at how good your tone was coming from it. I absolutely love it for the reasons you mentioned. The biggest one for me is that it so so easy to record as an amateur and get great sounding tones and songs. Gone are the days of fiddling with the SM57 position and giving all neighbors in a 2 block radius hearing damage from the volume. However, if I am just jamming or playing with friends I still prefer my tube amp. There is something about that all analog magic from hands to speaker that still isn't quite captured by the Eleven Rack.
So glad you are liking the 11R. Even though I have some other modeling units, it still sounds great to my ears. And I agree about the feel of an amp vs. and amp modeler. Different dynamic for sure.
I have Multiple Sclerosis but still perform live. Carrying my Hiwatt amps is not an option. I also like the fact that I control the tone all the way to the XLR. In many venues the mics are very questionable. With impulse responses I pick the cabinets that suit the room. Never a complaint from the sound engineers. After using Amplitube Fender for seven years, the only hardware that I have changed are pedals. And finally, it all fits in one DJ backpack 🎒. I show up and am ready to go in 10 minutes. Love your channel! Thank you!
Hey Bill, A very well reasoned explanation for going with an amp modeler. My reasons are pretty similar. I downsized from a house with a large guitar jam space the could and did accommodate several people playing a bunch of tube amps at volume. For the last year I’ve been in a condo where my studio is much smaller and the ability to crank tube amps is zero. When I got back into guitars a few years ago I bought a modeling amp but quickly switched to tube amps for better sound. When I had to give them up I wanted a solution that sounded good and merged well with my audio interface and DAW that I use for recording. I actually liked the tones I heard on this channel so much I went with an ElevenRack. I’ve been very happy with it . Thanks for the inspiration.
I play American roots music. As I progress, I'm finding that I am using fewer effects. Since my chosen genre infuses elements that words cannot describe, I find modelers fall way short of tones I find pleasing to my ear... but they were fun to fool around with. Having my sense of tone and timing, is a blessing, and a curse. I am left with no alternative than to just walk my talk. I enjoy your channel in spite of our differences. I guess we're all looking, exploring new possibilities. Peace
For recording, particularly in a home studio, I agree that amp modeling is the best and easiest way to record (direct). I started out using a Tom Sholz Rockman and a Tascam Porta One recorder back in the 80's and have progressed from there. That said, I don't use amp modeling in a BAND context, but rather still use tube amps. You need both, depending on what you're doing. I used amp modeling software to record an album in a really good studio a few years back. It wasn't my choice, but the producer talked me into trying the software and it worked out great.
I have a smal tube amp that is the Laney Cub12r for a year and what i can say is that since I'm not a very efffects pedal guy I can notice a lot the difference between a real and a digital amp. I have also a Line6 Pocket Pod that I can take anywhere and play with some amp sims and sounds really cool for the price and now that iI've started recording, the digital way is much easyer and cheaper than the "true" way. So for me the tube amp as no comparison in sound and dynamics but for an easy way to record or just play anywhere with every amp you want the digital is getting really good. Love your channel dude, you're awesome ;)
Look into Synergy Modules. Affordable tube preamps designed by boutique manufacturers like Soldano, Freidman, Deizel, others. Tube is still the gold standard.
I used to have a Fender Mustang I. I liked it alot, but I’m much happier with the Vox AC-15 I have now. I use a Boss GT 1 processor with it, and it does everything I need. The best of both worlds.
Presently I run a stereo rig with a hot rod deluxe and 80s jcm800. They're a great pair and I actually get pretty cool stereo effects even from mono effects. Right now I'm fortunate enough to be able to record with them, but I'll admit it's not always easy, but I feel like it's worth it. The jcm800 can be noisy and temperamental, and the hot rod had a tube go bad during recording, setting the project back a bit (I'm running again now). A modeler could have let me keep working. I like the feeling the amp brings, my "studio" is all in the same room so I get to keep a little bit of a live feel even when I'm only recording myself. I can see moving to a fractal unit or similar one day, but probably not any time soon. I agree with pretty much all of your points, Bill - but I'm just not ready to give it up! Cool intro, by the way - that's still one of my favorite songs you've done.
I never owned a tube amp but knew more than a few folks who did. My favorite "back in the day" stage amp was a Crate GX-130C matched to a Crate stereo 4x12 cabinet. I had a matching 2x12 combo at my band's rehearsal room. At home my practice amp (which I still own is a Crate CR-112) I don't play through it and it needs a good restoration but I still have it. My first experience with "amp modeling" was with my newer practice amp, a Behringer GM110. It is cool but doesn't quite cut it for "modeling". My first real experience in amp modeling was a Digitech Genesis, amps, cabinets, line in and, line outs. No presets though, it's only downfall. Now I use Native Instruments Guitar Rig (free version) and I plan to purchase it in full sooner or later. I love it, Vox, Marshall and more plus more effects than I could ever afford racks cases for, including modeled Boss DS-1 and the Ibanez Tube Screamer. Now my personal choice for distortion/fuzz will always be my Tech 21 XXL, the original vintage version. Though my favorite studio type effect unit will forever be the Alesis Quadraverb GT, another long story. But, now because of amp modeling I can live out my fantasy guitar room at headphone level and I'm in nervana. Now of course many of you know I'm a keyboard (synths) player as well. Synth modeling is ultra important to my sound, I have 6 apps on my iPad dedicated to this alone Arturia iMini (miniMoog) and iProphet take the place of several thousands of dollars in synths along with a Korg iMS-20 modeler. I even have a organ modeler called Galileo by Yonic which I use in place of what could likely be millions of dollars in restored Hammond B-3's and other organ types. I think I know what I'm going to shoot a video on now....swing by the channel soon.
I use a BluGuitar Amp 1 currently. I agree with your premise of getting older, not wanting to play as loud however, amp modelers still are unable to recreate controlled feedback and that’s a favorite sound for me. I have no problem with amp and effects modelers after that.
Bill's spot on, at least for those that have been on a similar journey to him, which I'd wager is a good amount of his subscribers and listeners. A tube amp often doesn't make sense, even if the tone is glorious and the interaction between guitar and amp is divine. Over the last 20 years my pedals and I have gone from a Mesa Dual Rectifier, to a Dr Z Maz 18, to a modded Fender Blues Junior, to a Quilter Mach Pro 2, and I am currently playing through a humble Tech 21 Trademark 60. Modeling has gotten so good that this is probably the last year I'll be playing through a traditional amp. There are a lot of modeling options that are really interesting, and the price of good powered monitors/speakers that are suitable for home and stage is falling quick.
I am a tube amp guy. Have been for years. I am much like you. Played in a band long time ago took a break for family and career. Picked it back up and went right back to Marshall amps. Now I no longer have or need full stacks. I find a 40 watt combo does everything I need and can step down to 20 watt. I joined a classic rock, or more rock I used to play when it was new, band. We play bars and other small venues, a full Marshall stack is no longer needed. However, I do have a solid state vox amp.that can simulate about 20 different heads, and you can add 3 different pedals into it as well. All configurable through phone. I love this for taking with me camping or sitting out on the deck in the summer. However, as I am getting more into recording and so on I have really been eyeing a Kemper profiling amp. I am not opposed to tube amps. I love them and they are the heart of my favorite types of music. But I must say as I get older. Lugging around 60lbs of amp on a regular basis is not as fun as it used to be.
I switched to NuTUbe. I run my Vox MIni SuperBeetle @ 4ohms (50 watts) with both the 10' cab and an additional 12' cab in parallel . Sounds awesome, loud, light and I never have to deal with tubes going bad. It's a nice compromise and it sounds like tubes because it is.
I have been on this journey for a few years myself. I used a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe for years and loved it in live settings. It took pedals really well and was super loud. I tried using a Zoom G3 to cover new ground. While it has good sounds in it, I quickly reached a limited number of usable sounds for me and my playing. I currently have a Traynor YCV20WR which also sounds great, and is much easier to tot around and gave me a different sound. I'm now going on a month with a Helix LT and completely enjoy it. It is really nice to show up with a guitar case and a bag with the Helix in it, and have a selection of rig setups a few taps away. The other nice thing is, I spent a grand on a single unit that provides me with the opportunity to experiment with other sounds amps and effects I otherwise would have spent a lot more money on obtaining. I still have a VHT Special 6 that I will hold onto and use for practice and small shows. I don't believe I'll be going back to full analogue in the future.
No joke @@chordsoforion I had a piece of tape marking where 1.5 was on the master volume, for that very reason. I eventually built an ISO cabinet and purchased an attenuator to reign it in more.
I have many, many, many amps of all sorts: fully tube with rectifiers (original 59 Fender Deluxe) - fully tube minus rectifiers (Supro Thunderbolt) - tube amps with digital modeling/FX (Fender Vibro Champ XD) - hybrid tube preamp/SS (Vox MV50) - full solid state analog - (Quilter mini 101) and full solid state digital (Bias head) - are a few examples. Each excels at a particular function, otherwise I wouldn't have kept them, but I do find myself playing my solid state amps quite a bit due to the tone actually. If you haven't done yourself the favor, definitely try out a Quilter, especially if you're a pedal junkie like me. All the top pedal designers test designs on Quilters now. I guarantee any tube amp snob can find a Quilter that they like, even if they don't use pedals.
My go-to amp is a Roland JC-40. As loud as I could ever need, true stereo, translates a very pure tone, superb platform for effects and God's own chorus. Size, weight and reliability all exceed anything a tube amp can supply.
In my tenth and twenties I used to play a Marshall JCM 900 and a 4x12 cabinet. But in my 30s I was fed up with carrying the heavy stuff arround and at home the tube amp made hum and noise like a waterfall. Furthermore I moved into a big city where you never come through on time by car. So I had to transport my equipment in public means of transport. So I switched to a transistor amp and pedals. Today I am not using an amp at all. I use vst-effects in my DAW which I control with a midi pedal. In my band I still use the transistor amp. A small combo which I can transport easily in subway and tram, but it has a great tone thanks bass reflex. With an amp modeller you can try everything you want. EL34? no problem. Then switch to 6L6. Or an open combo, or a closed 4x12 cabinet? With an amp modeller you can change this instantly.
Hi Bill. Great video! I've been looking at the more modern modellers, but have not pulled the trigger yet on the any of the real heavy feature units , but I actually use both tube amps, and a 7 year old modelling amp. For my main dirty tone I primarily use my '74 Marshall 100 Super Lead, and I mic it into a vintage Richmond mixer, and split it into stereo there via a tube mic preamp, adding delays, Harmonizer, etc... For modelling, I use an older Vox AD50VT combo, which has some great clean and Soldano type overdive settings. Use the same mic/mixer setup with it. It's not as refined as your rig, but once you get a good thick stereo guitar sound whatever the means...it's very hard to go back! Thanks again for the great videos! Very inspiring!
Another excellent video! I ended up getting a Effectrix Blackbird tube pre-amp for it's clean tone, which is stellar. I muck that up with a Two Notes Torpedo C.A.B. as well as my various pedals and EQ and I seem to get a wide variety of tones, but I do also have an Atomic Amplifire and a Boss SY-300, which I have set up on a different pair of channels and so I can dial in various tones and sounds to blend in with my main sound. The problem I have is ensuring all the gain and tone stages are set just right. it's a challenge keeping everything set right, and for that I have considered simplifying my setup.
I have a BluGuitar Amp 1 on my pedal board which uses a Russian nanotube. It weighs around 2 lbs and sounds incredible! I have BIAS Amp on my iPad that I will use from time to time but the Amp 1 is my main amp.
Great debate Bill! I'm actually having issues dealing with volume of the amp and recording. It's nice that we have options as guitarists to switch back and forward. I finally grabbed the Avid Eleven rack for a reasonable price for recording at home and during the evening especially! Thanks for your videos and reviews! Keep up to amazing work! 🎸🎸🎸
I think your points about modelling are well made - I'm currently a father and husband, there is no way to get great tube tone when my wife and 3 kids are sleeping without some digital technology. For me, modelling hasn't quite captured the headroom of a real tube amp when using dirt pedals. Also, something about the feel/responsiveness is still lacking. My new hybrid rig is a tube head (Fender Bassbreaker 15) to Suhr Reactive Load box to effects loop of my Headrush pedalboard loaded with a Celestion IR. This is more gear than I'd like for a small space, but it's my favorite for maximizing tube amp feel with digital convenience.
When Line 6 released M13 and HD Pods, many people were able to make sound so rich and dynamic that it was absolutely indistinguishable from tube amp in a mix or live recording, and then AXE FX happened, then Kemper profiler, etc. Tube amps already more of a convenience than a need.
Bill, we have so much in common. We are about the same age, married with children. I played in an alternative rock band in the 90's using tube amps and recently began playing ambient guitar. I started recording with amp modeling around 2002 for the same reasons you gave. it is so much easier and you get a cleaner recording. I do miss my marshall half stack though.
Why not live in both worlds?! I use combinations of analog and digital, tube and modeler/IR/plugin. They have pros and cons, so I don't think either is better than the other option. Modelers/IRs/Plugins: often a lower cost to get into, more options out of the box, ease of workflow (once the learning curve is overcome), many of the things you've said, Bill. When I play bass, I am completely amp-less and achieve my sound through combinations of digital and analog preamp pedals, effect pedals and a Two Notes CAB for my cabinet IR. Placing reverb and delay AFTER the cab sim does wonders to the tone that just cannot be accomplished live. In addition, recording is a breeze and live shows sound just like how I want them to because I have already dialed in the mic placement and EQ settings to send to the mixing board. Amps: still gotta give some love here. Enthusiasts, particularly recording enthusiasts should really learn about working with an amp, a cabinet, a room, with mic placement and with their effect signal chain. There is a heap of experimentation that can occur here and provide wonderful learning experiences that can be applied in the digital realm for better tone. A major downside of the plugin and modelling advancement is that many people just apply stock settings based off of what they see on RUclips or in forums. This creates a bit of a cookie-cutter sound and music can become bland because it all sounds so similar. Learning recording and signal chain techniques with tube amps, and the limits they impose force us as musicians to become adaptive and creative BECAUSE they are limiting. In the end, it doesn't matter which route you take. I think it is important to learn, to experiment and to have fun with music instead of enlisting to one side of the debate or the other.
Slowly making the switch. I was against digital amplification for years. But as you said, it’s improved quite drastically. I plan to get myself a Headrush unit soon.
I'm no longer using tube amps. In my studio I'm using a modeling pre-amp and an effects system to record audio tracks on my DAW. I'm mostly interested in recording now because the wide variety of sounds on soft synths are my inspiration
Actually I'm just playing at home for fun, maybe recording in the future. I love my Mesa Mini Rectifier 25 and TA-15 for rocking the house. An excellent tool for recording tube amps without having to deal with cabs and microphones is the Universal Audio OX. In the evening for lower volume, and especially for ambient type of music with lots of effects I absolutely love my Axe-Fx. As you said, you can put your modulation effects after the amp/cab section. It is so versatile and easy to set up and to experiment with different settings within seconds. This is absolutely a dream to work with, especially for recording.
MINI RECTO! Those things are lovely. As is the OX Box - and it should be, they cost about the same, haha. Edit: I never used an AxeFX, but I know some bands that absolutely swear by them.
My tip toe into amp modelling is the Boss Katana 100 combo which only in V3 firmware allows stereo recording. You can record in standby with no amp sound, just monitors so achieves what you suggested. Yet to achieve the sounds and ease of recording with this, just takes work. I also invested in a Soundcraft 12mtk mixer usb and mic up using shure sm57, SE Voodoo VR1 left side, beyer M69 and beyer M160 right side to using SE reflectors GF acoustic screens to a Marshall Origin 20h with Greenback and Creamback 12in, Laney IRT studion G12 Anniversay and Jensen C12k so 4 tracks to create one guitar stereo image. Using a mixer means panning, eq, adding reverb and delay and studio standards is superior to just an audio interface at a cheaper price. The cost has been incremental whereas amp models you shell out over $1500 in one hit or $2200 if you want an Axe FX III. I also use S-gear plugin which is superb and now Pete Thorn’s PT100 with UA. So the other option is plugins and no modelling at all which is cheaper and more incremental. So 3 routes to recording 1) mic’d or DI real amps 2) modelling Line6, Kemper, Fractal, Boss. 3) Plugins S-gear, UA, Postive Grid, Amplitude. If I was strapped for space and needed to keep condo volumes I would use plugins and a bigger computer. Real amps are great when you can turn them up to at least 6 otherwise for recording the plugins are the easiest. For rehearsal and creation I use real amps. For recording I tend to use plugins first and then boss katana and then finish off with mic’d up amps. For videos I feed the headphone output into my Panasonic FX1000 stereo mic input and then have a great syncd sound recording with the video feed.
I use both these days. I have a wonderful amp head that I love - a Laney IRT Studio - and it sends out two signals through USB. One is the tube amp's sound. The other is a clean DI, which I run into a variety of Amp modelers. This gives me crazy versatility for recording purposes. I'm getting older now: I don't tour anymore, and live shows aren't a frequent thing. When I do play live, it's usually a solo acoustic show. But when I play electric live, the IRT is way more than just a gain monster: it's a lovely & versatile little unit. My Rig, if it helps to illustrate: Schecter Hellraiser w/Sustainiac or homemade Baritone (Mahogany Strat w/Kiesel pickups) Hand-wired Op Amp Big Muff clone Line 6 HX FX Laney IRT Studio Weird half-stack cab (2 Celestion Classic Leads in an x-pattern with OEM 10" speakers) Usually rely on IRs for recording. Or conversely: Ibanez Acoustic Funny Hat (not strictly necessary).
I am a new guitar player, but.... My time with a physical amp that was a modeler was about a year before I decided that Garageband and Bias FX 2 had many more tone options over the amp. I still have my pedals, because I love modulating reverbs!
I stopped using amps and mics back in the early 90's when the original Tech21 Sansamp pedal was introduced. Been going direct ever since. Line 6 PODs, a Johnson J-Station, Yamaha THR-10, Tech21 Flyrigs, and Mooer Mini-Preamps do it for me. I've even gone direct with an Earthquaker Devices Acapulco Gold right to my interface and used an Ignite NADIR VST as my amp simulator to tame it. No going back to mics for me. I'm very happy with my direct sounds.
you are a cool dude bro.I can see why you are fine with amp modelling because of the type of music you play.I prefer tubes because of the changes that happen with more volume.I also had some old transistor amps that just sounded better turned up super loud.I play raw rock and funk stuff,and I love the intense insanity of an amp that is only just being controlled by its user.I detest almost all effects pedals(especially reverb,unless its natural reverb from a room used on a recording).But also love prog rock and effects when I listen to that kind of music...hypocritical but true.I just don't like fake effects when I am playing my guitar.i like digging in with my fingers and not relying or using effects at all,except for wah and amp distortion.your volume reason was cool.my mesa booge valve amp has amazing amp distortion even on super low volume so I am lucky.rock on bro
I fired my Bogner combo for a quilter-head about 1 year ago! I still miss it at times (mainly because it looked great and the quilter... doesn’t). However it is such a practical great sounding little box of joy! Happy times, plus it lives on my pedalboard! That being said, there are interesting images coming out of the One Control factory...
I agree with the sheer convenience of digital, but I still can't get away from tube amps for cleanish ambient music as I find the high end "pierces through" layers of delay and reverb better, and this is magnified as you layer recorded tracks. I go direct for 100% wet ambient / cinematic , and I use a suhr reactive load for late night distorted stuff, but to me the high end chime just gets screwed up with digital (unless you are trying to nail that direct clean sound vibe as a specific flavor). Personally, I've had better results with an attenuated tube amp for ambient than digital but to each his own - glad you are happy with your current setup!
I think that modelling amps and tube amps definitely have their place! I think the answer to the question “would it sound better if I recorded prog rock through a modelling amp or a tube amp?” Would be through the tube amp, for example. And the opposite would be true (I think) for ambient guitar! I think it comes down to how you get your distorted tones most of all... Solid state amps are great at taking and playing with pedals, oftentimes having an exceptional amount of headroom, so if you’re mainly using pedals to get your distortion and want to keep all the articulation, solid state amps are a fantastic choice. That’s probably the defining characteristic, to me. I play progressive rock, that flirts with metal, so for me, having a good saturated amp distortion makes all the difference, but I definitely agree with your closing statement: that amp modellers and solid state have been getting better and better. I think we are going to reach a point where they’ll be indistinguishable, but the modelling amps will pack more features than a tube amp would. I expect in light of this, we are going to see more and more hybrid amps with digital features, and I’m really excited for it!
You made good points. I love tube amps, however they are not practical for everyone or every situation. I have a very nice mesa and fender tube setup, but I also use modeling. It gives you more power and flexibility. Also as you said modelling has gotten muuuuch better, its also got cheaper. You can get a decent modelling setup for under a grand. Its stable, flexible and inspiring. A tube amp, while great, is going to cost a ton more to even get close to what your modeller will do.
I have a 30-watt tube Laney VC30 with 2 x 10" modified to sound like a mini Twin that I use for live work, a little 15-watt hybrid Fender Super Champ XD for home practice, a rack mount Behringer V-Amp2 Pro for recording (sounds great if you know how to EQ it) and a smaller kidney shaped V-amp2 for a backup at gigs. (Hey it takes up almost no room at all in the van and will get you through the night.) Plenty of room for all kinds of amps. Like Allan Holdsworth said, "Tube, analog, digital, what's the difference as long as you get the sound you want?"
I haven't had a tube amp in many years untill recently, play for pleasure at home, used my Yamaha THR 10 and Boss Katana 100 for the past few years, both are great and the Katana sounds like any other great tube amp, tone wise one will never tell the difference, but about a month ago got myself Marshall DSL amp, and realized that Dynamics wise you still can't fake real tube response, and that Marshall tone is just glorious, yes the Katana is a great sounding amp and easy to record with the USB but Marshall is the only amp I use now.
I used to use amp-modeling (back when it wasn't great). Convenience was terrific compared to micing an amp, but I honestly don't like having to wade through menu after menu to select the components of my sound. I switched back to real amps and an array of pedals and it suits me much better. I like dedicated knobs WAY more than menus. I guess I'm simple that way. When I switched back, the tube amp was the clear winner in terms of sound but I know modelers have come a long way and sound comparable especially in a recording. Maybe not so much in the room.
Depends on what is defined as better. With a tube amp you can keep it running almost forever. With digital once it starts electrically falling apart (circuit board failures,etc) it’ll just end up in a landfill somewhere. Both have pluses and minuses but for me tube is the way to go until digital becomes as such where repair and longevity are. Ether implemented than what they are now.
My gateway to an amp-less life was going stereo out from my Boss ME25, one side to my amp, the other to the PA. It sounded so good to me, I wondered why I needed to drag an amp around. Depending on the situation, I’ll bring an amp or not. No big deal these days.
I’m a fellow ambient guitarist and use both. I’ve been a Line 6 user/artist since day 1 (recently purchased an HX Stomp) but still love my Fender tube amps and can’t seem to part with them... yet. ✌🏻
Nice vid as always, Bill! While I see the advantages of amp modeling, my experience has been the opposite. I play and record mostly ambient guitar on a silent environment, I've gone from amp modeling to tubes. I don't use tube amps, I use a tube preamp instead, and I plug it to an effects unit that features a cab simulator. I use analog fuzz and overdrive pedals in front of it and that way I get all the tones I use. I think it's a excellent way to get a almost all tube tone (lacking the power stage) in a "bedroom" situation, I get sweet tones and I think I will never go back to amp modeling in the future, but who knows...
It was interesting to hear because Ive just sold my amp once and for all pretty much for the same reasons. I dont need the amp sounding,but more likely the versatility and the comfort. But digital vs tube amp depends on the style as well, as you said when the production is full of effects then it doesnt matter which one you pick. But for heavy riffing and creating creamy bluesy sound the tube amp is still better (a bit).
I miss my tube amps from back in the day. My Mesa Mark III through a 4x12 was a beast. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the modelers built in to Logic Pro, though, and look forward to trying out some others.
I started with a soild state bass amp with a guitar so that didn't really do me any favors and when I finally had money I bought a zoom g5 to try out multiple amps and cab sounds. I then fell into the trap of needing a tube amp and a cab because I was joining a band and needed to fit in the mix so like most of us I set out for the biggest bang for the buck. Ended up getting a Bugera trirec and a Carvin 4x12 with British series 100w speakers. I chose the trirec for the same reason you chose the thd, the ability to swap tubes and I did find a set of tubes I really enjoy. 2 5881wrx and 2 kt88s. The thing that holds me back from fully going into modelling is getting that same set up in a modeler. With the exciting mooer ge300 coming out (with IR maker) I think I can finally impulse and tone steal the set up once it comes out. but for now I'm using a preamp live with fx and a carvin sx100.
amp modeling is getting better each and every year. Like Achilles and the tortoise legend. Amp modeling is getting so close that one day it will be a tube amp.
Hello,thx for this post.I use everything possible to achieve tones.BUT my favorite is still my Boogie MK4b head and Recto 212 cab and pedalboard that NEVER gets out of my studio.I mostly record my guitars with this rig. There is a speaker mute on the MK4.
I've always used solid state amps due to the lighter we weight, peace of mind that it wilk work consistently regardless of the room, and most of all price point. I currently use a Mooer pre-amp pedal combined with a speaker simulated DI (the mini DI also by Mooer) for my main rig. I still use a couple of solid-state amps for jam sessions, or if I don't have sufficient monitoring. In which case I just plug my unbalanced output to the power amp in (effects return) whilst the balanced output goes to the p.a.
i sold my EVH 5150 iii head about a week ago and purchased a Mooer Preamp live. My reasons for doing so are just about the same as your own. Smaller foot print (my entire rig is now on my pedal board), versatility, the ability to have multiple diffetent tones to create with, and streamlining the recording process.... so far....i feel i made the right choice. but man it was a hard one lol
Ive never owned a tube amp. They are too expensive and heavy and if you have a gig where there are stairs involved ... well gravity sucks. Id love to own a tube amp but its not a priority. I Have a fender champion 100 its light and loud as hell and has great tone, Im happy.
I have a new Vox ac30 that I love to pieces, however I`m primarily not an ambient player. If ambient guitar was my primary interest, I would contemplate jumping ship and going the modeling route. Only because the effects can really be a bigger part of the instrument than the amp.
A good valve amp and cab only wins out if you don't mike up when playing live or have equally expensive recording equipment (mics, preamp, interface, etc. ), when recording. In every other scenario, decent moddeling wins in "audio quality", price, flexibility, stability, transportation. That being said. I really love my 100W valve amp :D So my conclusion is that valve amps are for fun (like a motorcycle or sports car), and moddeling is for serious (like a transporter or mini van) :)
I as you Bill use digital for the convenience instead of lugging a 70 lbs tube amp I have a 14 lbs Kemper and a 30 lbs Orange. It gives me every thing I need and it sounds great direct to FOH. I also have a HX Stomp that I love but it took more fiddling for FOH it's my backup. I use the Kemper powerhead like a traditional amp into the Orange 112 but get no bleed to FOH because I'm running direct. We play small to medium size club's so sometimes we don't run everything into the PA there's nothing like the amp in a room sound to my ears plus were not trying to have a silent stage. We run IEM'S so if nothing is in the PA I'll run with only one ear in which took a while to get used to but it works.
Ambient and experimental music is much more suited for DI recording with modeling than more traditional styles. I still like analog amp modeling better than digital. Sansamp for bass and acoustic guitar. Joyo American sound for electric. I use fuzz, boost, active volume, wah, envelope filter, OD, mooer mod factory, provibe into Joyo American sound for analog amp modeling into, ehx canyon, TC hall of fame stereo out to two L/R DOD rubbernecks into Eventide timefactor into t-rex polyswitch for buffered stereo a/b. A to stereo fender tube combos and B to stereo analoge speaker sims to studio interface to PA or KRK monitors or phones...one speaker sim is a behringer ultra-G di box the other is Tomsline ASR3. The polyswitch A/B lets me easily match my DI sound coming out of studio monitors with the sound of the tube amps. The Joyo american sound amp modeler really shines as a fender sounding direct device and benefits greatly by adding a stand alone speaker sim. It also sounds good in front of amp or in the loop..great pedal, got mine for $29 shipped. My speaker sims are a work in progress. I may add a digitech cabdryvr since their price is coming down to have some variety with speakers. I see more loadable IR stereo pedals on the horizon but the cadryvr is good value for $79 shipped..I don't mind digital speaker sims, but analog amp modeling is essential for me going direct.
I do own two tube amps and I am a very happy man when I have an opportunity to play them, but as I do most of my playing at night when my kid is sleeping I do most of my playing through Boss GT-001 - it's a compact desktop version of their flagship GT-100. I must say it works reasonably well, I particularly like some magic they do on the input which makes it so that I've never yet had to worry about clipping or gain staging when playing it. Come to think of it I don't even know how to check levels on it ;) I've tried using a setup where I plug my amp into a load box and that into a cab sim and this works quite well, but the amount of setup is too much for me, at least when practising. There are some new studio/practice tube amps with a built in load box and cab sim, like the Hughes & Kettner or the latest Marshall DSL series and I do plan to get one of those in the future, but haven't done so yet. When it comes to software emulations I've tried several options and my conclusion is that a lot actually depends on cab simulator / cab impulses used with the software. For example Waves GTR3 is not really considered a particularly great amp sim, but the "ACME" impulses in their cab sim library suddenly make those amp models come alive, especially if you layer 2 cabs or even 2 amps - which is very easy to do in this particular VST. Similarly Bias Amp is generally highly regarded, but I found it's built-in cab tones boring, until I splurged on the pro version with more cabs (and extra preamp and power amp models), only then did it actually show it's capabilities. My recent favourite is Waves PRS Supermodels, but it eats CPU like a horse. Also, worth mentioning, Kuassa Cerberus for bass amp simulation is nice and rather CPU friendly. Another good tip I've discovered, besides experimenting with different cab models, is to use some actual, physical OD/Distortion/Fuzz pedal on your signal before the amp sim. For some reason even a lowly Tube Screamer can make a lot of difference and make it sound more "correct". My two current favourites for this task are MXR Shinjuku Drive and EHX Germanium 4 Big Muff. For some reason, even if the amp sim does offer built-in pedal simulations, those often don't sound as good as the physical stomp boxes. Oh and a final note. when comparing amp sim to the real amp make sure you are comparing apples to apples. It is easy to dismiss the sim as weak sounding if you are comparing an amp sim playing through 7 or 8 inch studio monitors to an amp pushing a 4x12 cab. But that cab won't sound all that strong when it's recorded and played back through the same monitors.
I play blues and I'm thinking about a modeler. I'm so enticed with having everything under my fingertips and I feel that I will be pleased with the sound, due to the fact I don't use a lot of gain anyway. I can't keep a tube amp at home (apartment) and I'd like to be able to record with ease. The only thing I need to decide is whether I want to go with a Gigboard or HX Stomp.
#5 before the preamp thru effects loop and using your recording effects from protools or garage band recording is a world of its own I love my micro cube as a modeler amp small cheap easy to use I split my signal make a stereo track or use 2 mics a close mic and a room mic I still like a miced cab and room sounds even with a modeler
All good reasons to move across to modelling. I use it a bit when I'm travelling, but at home, effortless tone from my H&K Triamp through a decent quad is what I want to hear. I have the space, and can turn it up adequately. I have issues with latency when I'm using sims while in a hotel room. I need a better interface, but the UA Apollo Twin that I want is très expensive. I don't want to update my laptop, would lose too much connectivity, and can't really afford to either. I have no issues with tonal quality of modelling but latency drives me nuts. The only time I have ever seen dog-ears Chapman fooled was by the Kemper. But, hours of programming and profiling were needed to produce the same tone that merely turning on the actual amp produced. I prefer to invest my "IT time" into Ableton.
Hi Bill! Great topic, I grew up in the 90s and early 2000's and I guess that must've been the time when a lot of things regarding music and guitar started shifting to digital and efficiency. Most of the true tone seekers still did it the traditional way but a lot of more modern players started using digital modelers. I currently own a basic 30-watt Orange combo valve amp. It sounds amazing when you crank it up to meet the drums in a jam room! One thing that caught my eye recently was the Axe FX III, have you heard/seen anything about it yet? Some musicians that use it are putting out some stellar quality guitar stuff and I'm genuinely curious about it, from what I can tell the options are almost endless and they are all apparently superb quality. Nice vid, cheers man!
i mostly play metal but i switched from using my Zoom G3xn as my Amp/cab/fx to a Marshall Mg100hdfx and a Joyo Zombie into a marshall 212 cab :) and i am so happy with the new setup also i Built a small pedalboard (tuner/noise gate/tube screamer/wah/delay) and when i want to record something, i just mic the cab but for practicing late at night/recording i use Vst plugins ;)
I play my electric guitars through two Fender Blues Juniors. I like them very much and I run various effects through 'em and I love playin' stereo. Fer my acoustic electric guitars I use a Fishman Loudbox Artist. I may snag a second Fishman Loudbox someday to play my acoustics in stereo.
Good video, I haven't used a tube amp in twenty years, used to be the minimum requirement to have a 100 watt Fender or Marshall. Truth is it took my brain a long time to get to grips with the fact that a 100watt RMS amp is NOT 10 times louder than a 10 watt amp. But that's a whole nother discussion. Today a 15 watt amp is great for home and when miced, more than enough for any venue. I have a Fender and a Vox now, both 15 watts , more than enough and your statement about adding effects , makes little difference to the tone. I do still use "real" amps even for recording, but no need for a tube amp. Having said all of this having a blast with a Marshall double stack will never loose it's magic. Just can't get a chance to do it too often .................
As much as I like playing through my Mesa and 5150, I've been very impressed with my Yamaha THR10X modeling practice amp. I agree that it seems every year modelers get closer and closer to the real thing. That said, I would like to try out a reactive load attenuator and two notes torpedo for recording tube amps instead of the traditional micing method.
I'd like to get a nice modeler someday and I agree with this, except one little thing; you can get FX after a tube amp's speaker, but it's kinda dated now: have the guy running the board add it. Usually this turns into garbage if you have a sound guy you're not familiar with or they aren't familiar with wtf they're doing (this is often, you're aware), but if done right you can approach studio level quality. You can also ditch the board and use just a mic and interface, at least at home. A lot of the big, intricate, pristine, professional shows still utilize a lot of assistance at the board for at least dramatic effects and backing tracks, maybe more than before, though the effects have fallen out of favor unless its vocals or drums. Most guitarists prefer to do most of the work themselves, as we know. But honestly when it's done right it's pretty much like doing it in post or on a PC plugin or a modeler. But of course, it also requires a PA or at least a mic and interface, and a computer. There are other similar methods that retain a tube amp with post-FX like attenuator loops, DI's and/or emulators/IR's. Most of them use a class D reamping section though. And yeah, I totally just used a semicolon and a colon in the same sentence. Pretty sure I even did it correctly.
Also regarding the stereo stuff it's definitely cheaper to use a modeling rig, but ease of use kinda depends on the menu within the device. I think I'm going to go down the expensive route of using dedicated stereo FX like Strymon. For now I'm using an old ADA EL34 stereo power amp with the fx loop send on the "dry" amp feeding it. At home and at jams/shows/practices with a good PA or no other guitarists I'm just using a 5W amp with the send feeding the stereo amp(s). I'm not sure why but the big stereo amp(s) don't overpower it whatsoever. This may be just how it goes or it may be how the FX loop is configured. I'll know better when I can try it with another amp. May be adding a loop to a '76 Super Lead for just that.
OK mister grammer expert! :-) Fair point on board effects. We did that in the prog-rock band I mentioned. in the early years, we took a reel to reel tape deck along and added into the effects loop of the board as a delay. Sounded great, but was certainly a cumbersome!
I went the attenuator route after getting burned out on a line6 pod 500hd. I got good sounds from it but I never get really satisfied. It never felt right. I kept tweaking and tuning and mucking about. So I can run my tube amps hot now but remain at a "tv" volume level. I have a hx effects unit now and that's so good I sold all my pedals bar one boutique pedal that has a special place with me. I have considered the helix(lite/stomp) and kemper but I'm deadly afraid I'll end up in a circle of tweaking and tuning again. So for this generation I'm kinda set. For really quiet practice I use a katana head that's also my backup amp in case of bad stuff (TM). Considering how well that unit is doing it's really promising for other modellers. With the nextone coming out, and stuff like the black spirit by H&K I honestly think these are the years modelers in whatever form are getting good enough to finally replace tube amps.
My experience is very similar - tube amps, a period not playing guitar as I had a family and then in the late 1990s I bought a Line 6 POD when they were first released and haven't looked back. I think I've had pretty much every Line 6 unit ever made and currently have a Line 6 rack unit. I have a low wattage valve amp but when recording its digital modelling all the way.
Prog Guitarplayer! Cool, i almost expected your career progression.... I always record with different amp sims. BUT in some cases i also use a real tube preamp pedal (TwoNotes LeLead), that sends into my interface and different cab sims in my DAW. I think thats a good compromise. And it really sounds amazing at all volume levels!
@@chordsoforion I use a presonus studiolive 16.0.2 and inside my mac I use Agile Ampkit. The beauty of the studiolive mixer is that you can reroute individual channels inside the daw for extra fxloops. Also, the Deluxe 20 has its own cab sim on its output.
I only have a Vox MV50 Clean as an amp, and a cabinet with 12" Celestion Cream. Sounds so good live. But the real deal is my pedalboard and I only use the direct signal from my board for recording. I live in an apartment building, so recording an amp at night is out of the question... and I'm a night person. I do have a Two Notes Le Clean, if I want to add a tube to the chain, but I don't like the amp modeler in it and mostly use it for the EQ, if at all. I like the sounds I can get from my pedals and guitars and I don't feel that I'm lacking anything. My work flow keeps getting better and I feel recording is easy and fun, and many of my tracks are the result of having a bit of fun instead of carefully planned hard work.
I never have used a tube amp. I have a Tube King pedal, that I've had for 13 years now, and I don't feel the need to spend a 1000 dollars paying for the ultimate amp. I have used a Roland Cube 30 before, and now I use a Peavey Vyper. I play a lot of acoustic blues/jazz/ambient music. The sound is in your fingers. A lot of people don't realize that B. B. King used solid state amps most of the time. I also just started using the Line 6 Sonic Port, and the amp models it has to coincide with an interface is pretty doggone good. Peace brother.
I use tube amps and i have easy stereo setup to record, just plug reactive load attenuator instead of the speaker (i use two notes torpedo captor), and stereo effects after this (normal jack cable, i dont use XLR and external audio interface), then i just plug into line in of my PC soundcard (Sound Blaster Audigy Rx) with wall of sound IR loader. I have easy recording stereo setup this way, i can play silently on my headphones and using the "thru" output on the captor while still using stereo monitors with signal affected by my NUX Atlantic i have wet/dry/wet rig if i want/can play "not silently" (i have a small child). Also i recommend Fender Super Champ X2 as an amazing pedal platform.
I read that as "I Fried My Tube Guitar Amp!".
Haha me too.
same and I was expecting a way gnarlier video.
I thought it was a typo, and it was SUPPOSED to be "Fried", heh heh.
Every time
Unfortunately - because the RUclips space is very influenced by manufacturers and retailers trying to sell tube amps - it's rare to hear an articulate argument for digital models, but of course you're right. One caveat is that if you use digital models you have to respect them like the real thing: you wouldn't buy ten tube amps at one go and expect to master them and if you're going to get the best out of digital models you have to spend time understanding each model.
Great point!
Sordel I wish I could give this more thumbs up. Why does everybody understand that the presets sound like crap, but not understand that the 8 gajillion adjustable parameters take some time to really figure out? Tube amp guys spend a lifetime swapping tube brands and speakers, pedals and microphones. Then they give up when faced with s few sliders on a computer screen...
@@Newnodrogbob The main reason for these types preferring tube amps is the simplicity involved with getting a great tone with no hassle. Its not wrong, there are all type of guitarists in this world and not all of them want to fuddle with menu diving and tons or tons of settings on a PC. Daryl Hall explained it perfectly once, his creativity is instantly sapped when he has to even "boot up" a mixer to lay down tracks. He just wants to play, pure and simple and a good tube amp gets you there instantly.
That being said, I'm a director of IT for the past 10 years and I love PCs, but I hate using them in a live situation. Modeling amps are a good way to avoid that but still require a lot of dedication to learn how to dial it in and edit presets properly.
KC My point wasn't as different from yours as you pretend. I wasn't arguing that anyone needs ten digital amp models: I was saying that if you recognise an amp model as a model rather than a preset you would want to explore the range of tones available from it the same way that you would if you had an actual amp. A lot of people have option paralysis because in the digital domain they have so many effects, amps etc. and feel that they “can't get a good tone” with any of them. Turning off most of those features and working with restricted options (like someone who has just bought a single amp) is the way forward. This is especially relevant to Chords of Orion since the e.p. project is based in the idea of using a common signal path for all songs.
As for the superiority of tube tone ... well yes, of course, why on earth would these digital models be of tube amps were that not widely recognised?
KC Maybe it's the problem with YT comments sections but you sound so angry about this ... like you're desperate to have an argument with someone on the merits of tube amps vs. digital models. Maybe someone else will give you the passionate debate that you're longing for ... maybe someone more easily riled than I am. I'm just not willing to die on this hill; I use digital models because they're more practical for me personally but I have no problem with agreeing that tube amps are the gold standard for guitar tone.
Best of both worlds currently:
When I record in my home studio I use a SM57 on my vox ac15 and then also split the signal twice. Once before it hits the amp input ( after the pedals ) and the second signal is direct from the guitar, before hitting any pedals. The challenge in mixing is to allow for slight differences in the recordings and align them , but it gives a massive sound that is not too muddy. Using a mooer IR loader on the pedal board gives flexibility when playing live to leave the amp at home. Great content Bill, love the channel.
Interesting setup! and thanks!!
Yea! Amp modelers and plugins saved "bedroom musicians". God bless modern technologies!
For home recording I think a hybrid setup is the way to go. I keep all dirt and gain analog. Many different dirt pedals and pre-amps, you can find a bunch of tube pre-amps from russian builders, I guess because there is such a surplus of military valves still availible there. One I use a lot now is a recreation of a JTM-45 (ArthurGuitarSound), but I also have a Blackface Twin Reverb one which is really nice (ShiftLine) and a Sunn Model-T (CorrectSound). But use impluse reverb cab simulations and such along with it. And iso-cabs. Sorta modular. Wouldn't wanna lug it all around for a live situation though or really slim down the selection just for the set to not end up with a Kevin Shields size pedalboard.
I agree with you Bill, I made the switch back in 1993 when I purchased one of the first multi- effects to offer modeling, the Zoom 9030. I was able to develop my signature sound with that, and now I use the Helix with many options and you know, sometimes, I don't use an amp at all! Even all my die hard vintage lovers cannot believe the tones just through my studio rig with just a little compression and verb. It will give you chills. It is truly astonishing how far modeling has come, and the sound quality of effects themselves as the sample rates and bit depth has gotten better.
Tube amps are temperamental and some times sound not so good. My signal chain from Guitar is SP Compressor ->VoX tonelab SE(valve/tube amp modeling...warm and round) -> HX Stomp-> stereo out to 2xAMT Tubcake 3W solid state mini amps -> One DIY stereo speaker cabinet with 2 different speakers. Thanks for the videos!
Cool setup!
Rather than evolve, I devolved.
6 guitars into 5 guitar preamps, 3 stereo power amps, 2 heads to 9 speakers outside the house in an ISO with 8 mics. 4 analog outboard preamps, 4 digital preamps controlled by a Switchblade & MIDI pedal. One button switches to the chosen route. A second Switchblade for 4 Eventide Harmonizers, 1 TC 1210 Chorus routing back into 20x20 RME interfaces all conveniently controlled by a Surface Pro 4 i7, 8gb.
MIDI switches everything, with one button. Can add/remove Chorus, or additional Eventides, but the real beauty are the two 87sec samplers for looped jams. All digital routing, MIDI switched. Like a Bradshaw rig, but no effects are preamp direct, they're all post speaker for improved realism.
It was all started by an ADA MP1. I tried and tried to get sounds direct, but never learned IRs, still don't know how to use them. So I started adding amps and speakers, then mics and mic preamps. It's not a complex rig to use, you never have to plug anything in, nor remove cables. Just one button access to desired routes. To simplify the recording process, tracking channels subroute to summed channels, so no matter what speaker or mic is in use they sum to a recordable stereo dry track. This way, when you're recording, you can just change patch and instant switch between gain characteristics, or effects if desired. Switchblades changed my way of thinking. There is no need to plug anything in, just setup the patch.
Kids got older and moved out, so I got serious about recording. The MP1 never sounded better. Not only did I get my Marshall & Mesa, I grabbed a Rockman XPR from my youth. Pre production prototype. It was like I had arrived at the end of the Rainbow. Everyone was selling their rack gear, and I had waited 20-30 years to try them. Like you, when the kids were in the house, I had stopped playing guitar for many years during their youth, strictly Dad mode. Now its my turn.
Whoa. That's quite a rig!!
@@chordsoforion It doesn't sound any better than what most people record these days. Like your recent extended play you just uploaded, that sounds immense. Or people who use AxeFX III units, they're more than capable. They're amazing! This was my way of developing an ear for recording. In order to hear what a speaker sounds like I needed to compare it to 6 others. In order to know what makes a Mesa Rectifier unique, I needed two channels of Recto with different speakers. In order to get the best from my MP1 it needed to be tried through multiple power amps. Because I'm no expert. Hobbyist musician. Empty nester.
@@Eventual420 It sounds vert tasty and expensive...
but Dreams rig.
I still think that for ambient stuff valve do better
@@Eventual420 have you l
Uploaded something on RUclips?
Bill, I actually picked up an Eleven Rack because of your channel a few years ago. Even with the crappy RUclips bit rate, I was shocked at how good your tone was coming from it. I absolutely love it for the reasons you mentioned. The biggest one for me is that it so so easy to record as an amateur and get great sounding tones and songs. Gone are the days of fiddling with the SM57 position and giving all neighbors in a 2 block radius hearing damage from the volume. However, if I am just jamming or playing with friends I still prefer my tube amp. There is something about that all analog magic from hands to speaker that still isn't quite captured by the Eleven Rack.
So glad you are liking the 11R. Even though I have some other modeling units, it still sounds great to my ears. And I agree about the feel of an amp vs. and amp modeler. Different dynamic for sure.
I have Multiple Sclerosis but still perform live. Carrying my Hiwatt amps is not an option. I also like the fact that I control the tone all the way to the XLR. In many venues the mics are very questionable. With impulse responses I pick the cabinets that suit the room. Never a complaint from the sound engineers. After using Amplitube Fender for seven years, the only hardware that I have changed are pedals. And finally, it all fits in one DJ backpack 🎒. I show up and am ready to go in 10 minutes.
Love your channel! Thank you!
Hey Bill,
A very well reasoned explanation for going with an amp modeler. My reasons are pretty similar. I downsized from a house with a large guitar jam space the could and did accommodate several people playing a bunch of tube amps at volume. For the last year I’ve been in a condo where my studio is much smaller and the ability to crank tube amps is zero. When I got back into guitars a few years ago I bought a modeling amp but quickly switched to tube amps for better sound. When I had to give them up I wanted a solution that sounded good and merged well with my audio interface and DAW that I use for recording. I actually liked the tones I heard on this channel so much I went with an ElevenRack. I’ve been very happy with it . Thanks for the inspiration.
I play American roots music. As I progress, I'm finding that I am using fewer effects.
Since my chosen genre infuses elements that words cannot describe, I find modelers fall way short of tones I find pleasing to my ear... but they were fun to fool around with.
Having my sense of tone and timing, is a blessing, and a curse. I am left with no alternative than to just walk my talk.
I enjoy your channel in spite of our differences. I guess we're all looking, exploring new possibilities.
Peace
For recording, particularly in a home studio, I agree that amp modeling is the best and easiest way to record (direct). I started out using a Tom Sholz Rockman and a Tascam Porta One recorder back in the 80's and have progressed from there. That said, I don't use amp modeling in a BAND context, but rather still use tube amps. You need both, depending on what you're doing. I used amp modeling software to record an album in a really good studio a few years back. It wasn't my choice, but the producer talked me into trying the software and it worked out great.
I have an unusual faux stereo setup:
Fender Champion
Peavey Rage 158
Fender for warm immersive lows and peavey for crystal clear mids/highs.
I have a smal tube amp that is the Laney Cub12r for a year and what i can say is that since I'm not a very efffects pedal guy I can notice a lot the difference between a real and a digital amp.
I have also a Line6 Pocket Pod that I can take anywhere and play with some amp sims and sounds really cool for the price and now that iI've started recording, the digital way is much easyer and cheaper than the "true" way.
So for me the tube amp as no comparison in sound and dynamics but for an easy way to record or just play anywhere with every amp you want the digital is getting really good.
Love your channel dude, you're awesome ;)
soon tube amps will be like muscle cars great fun but not the daily driver of your drivers
This is a great way to put it.
Nope
Look into Synergy Modules. Affordable tube preamps designed by boutique manufacturers like Soldano, Freidman, Deizel, others. Tube is still the gold standard.
I run a Boss GT100 into an ISP Stealth power amp into two Yamaha 1x12 cabs loaded with 150 watt Eminence speakers. Excellent stereo live set up!
I used to have a Fender Mustang I. I liked it alot, but I’m much happier with the Vox AC-15 I have now. I use a Boss GT 1 processor with it, and it does everything I need. The best of both worlds.
Presently I run a stereo rig with a hot rod deluxe and 80s jcm800. They're a great pair and I actually get pretty cool stereo effects even from mono effects. Right now I'm fortunate enough to be able to record with them, but I'll admit it's not always easy, but I feel like it's worth it. The jcm800 can be noisy and temperamental, and the hot rod had a tube go bad during recording, setting the project back a bit (I'm running again now). A modeler could have let me keep working.
I like the feeling the amp brings, my "studio" is all in the same room so I get to keep a little bit of a live feel even when I'm only recording myself. I can see moving to a fractal unit or similar one day, but probably not any time soon. I agree with pretty much all of your points, Bill - but I'm just not ready to give it up!
Cool intro, by the way - that's still one of my favorite songs you've done.
I never owned a tube amp but knew more than a few folks who did. My favorite "back in the day" stage amp was a Crate GX-130C matched to a Crate stereo 4x12 cabinet. I had a matching 2x12 combo at my band's rehearsal room. At home my practice amp (which I still own is a Crate CR-112) I don't play through it and it needs a good restoration but I still have it. My first experience with "amp modeling" was with my newer practice amp, a Behringer GM110. It is cool but doesn't quite cut it for "modeling". My first real experience in amp modeling was a Digitech Genesis, amps, cabinets, line in and, line outs. No presets though, it's only downfall. Now I use Native Instruments Guitar Rig (free version) and I plan to purchase it in full sooner or later. I love it, Vox, Marshall and more plus more effects than I could ever afford racks cases for, including modeled Boss DS-1 and the Ibanez Tube Screamer. Now my personal choice for distortion/fuzz will always be my Tech 21 XXL, the original vintage version. Though my favorite studio type effect unit will forever be the Alesis Quadraverb GT, another long story. But, now because of amp modeling I can live out my fantasy guitar room at headphone level and I'm in nervana. Now of course many of you know I'm a keyboard (synths) player as well. Synth modeling is ultra important to my sound, I have 6 apps on my iPad dedicated to this alone Arturia iMini (miniMoog) and iProphet take the place of several thousands of dollars in synths along with a Korg iMS-20 modeler. I even have a organ modeler called Galileo by Yonic which I use in place of what could likely be millions of dollars in restored Hammond B-3's and other organ types. I think I know what I'm going to shoot a video on now....swing by the channel soon.
I've moved to a solid state Orange CR60. Sounds great at any volume and perfectly gig worthy.
I use a BluGuitar Amp 1 currently. I agree with your premise of getting older, not wanting to play as loud however, amp modelers still are unable to recreate controlled feedback and that’s a favorite sound for me. I have no problem with amp and effects modelers after that.
Bill's spot on, at least for those that have been on a similar journey to him, which I'd wager is a good amount of his subscribers and listeners. A tube amp often doesn't make sense, even if the tone is glorious and the interaction between guitar and amp is divine. Over the last 20 years my pedals and I have gone from a Mesa Dual Rectifier, to a Dr Z Maz 18, to a modded Fender Blues Junior, to a Quilter Mach Pro 2, and I am currently playing through a humble Tech 21 Trademark 60. Modeling has gotten so good that this is probably the last year I'll be playing through a traditional amp. There are a lot of modeling options that are really interesting, and the price of good powered monitors/speakers that are suitable for home and stage is falling quick.
I am a tube amp guy. Have been for years. I am much like you. Played in a band long time ago took a break for family and career. Picked it back up and went right back to Marshall amps. Now I no longer have or need full stacks. I find a 40 watt combo does everything I need and can step down to 20 watt. I joined a classic rock, or more rock I used to play when it was new, band. We play bars and other small venues, a full Marshall stack is no longer needed. However, I do have a solid state vox amp.that can simulate about 20 different heads, and you can add 3 different pedals into it as well. All configurable through phone. I love this for taking with me camping or sitting out on the deck in the summer. However, as I am getting more into recording and so on I have really been eyeing a Kemper profiling amp. I am not opposed to tube amps. I love them and they are the heart of my favorite types of music. But I must say as I get older. Lugging around 60lbs of amp on a regular basis is not as fun as it used to be.
I hear ya on the lugging part!
I switched to NuTUbe. I run my Vox MIni SuperBeetle @ 4ohms (50 watts) with both the 10' cab and an additional 12' cab in parallel . Sounds awesome, loud, light and I never have to deal with tubes going bad. It's a nice compromise and it sounds like tubes because it is.
I have been on this journey for a few years myself.
I used a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe for years and loved it in live settings. It took pedals really well and was super loud.
I tried using a Zoom G3 to cover new ground.
While it has good sounds in it, I quickly reached a limited number of usable sounds for me and my playing.
I currently have a Traynor YCV20WR which also sounds great, and is much easier to tot around and gave me a different sound.
I'm now going on a month with a Helix LT and completely enjoy it.
It is really nice to show up with a guitar case and a bag with the Helix in it, and have a selection of rig setups a few taps away.
The other nice thing is, I spent a grand on a single unit that provides me with the opportunity to experiment with other sounds amps and effects I otherwise would have spent a lot more money on obtaining.
I still have a VHT Special 6 that I will hold onto and use for practice and small shows.
I don't believe I'll be going back to full analogue in the future.
I used to have a Hot Rod Deluxe too. I actually got rid of it because it was so loud. Whew!
No joke @@chordsoforion I had a piece of tape marking where 1.5 was on the master volume, for that very reason. I eventually built an ISO cabinet and purchased an attenuator to reign it in more.
I have many, many, many amps of all sorts: fully tube with rectifiers (original 59 Fender Deluxe) - fully tube minus rectifiers (Supro Thunderbolt) - tube amps with digital modeling/FX (Fender Vibro Champ XD) - hybrid tube preamp/SS (Vox MV50) - full solid state analog - (Quilter mini 101) and full solid state digital (Bias head) - are a few examples. Each excels at a particular function, otherwise I wouldn't have kept them, but I do find myself playing my solid state amps quite a bit due to the tone actually.
If you haven't done yourself the favor, definitely try out a Quilter, especially if you're a pedal junkie like me. All the top pedal designers test designs on Quilters now. I guarantee any tube amp snob can find a Quilter that they like, even if they don't use pedals.
My go-to amp is a Roland JC-40. As loud as I could ever need, true stereo, translates a very pure tone, superb platform for effects and God's own chorus. Size, weight and reliability all exceed anything a tube amp can supply.
In my tenth and twenties I used to play a Marshall JCM 900 and a 4x12 cabinet. But in my 30s I was fed up with carrying the heavy stuff arround and at home the tube amp made hum and noise like a waterfall. Furthermore I moved into a big city where you never come through on time by car. So I had to transport my equipment in public means of transport. So I switched to a transistor amp and pedals. Today I am not using an amp at all. I use vst-effects in my DAW which I control with a midi pedal. In my band I still use the transistor amp. A small combo which I can transport easily in subway and tram, but it has a great tone thanks bass reflex.
With an amp modeller you can try everything you want. EL34? no problem. Then switch to 6L6. Or an open combo, or a closed 4x12 cabinet? With an amp modeller you can change this instantly.
Hi Bill. Great video! I've been looking at the more modern modellers, but have not pulled the trigger yet on the any of the real heavy feature units , but
I actually use both tube amps, and a 7 year old modelling amp. For my main dirty tone I primarily
use my '74 Marshall 100 Super Lead, and I mic it into a vintage Richmond mixer, and split it into stereo there via a tube mic preamp, adding delays, Harmonizer, etc...
For modelling, I use an older Vox AD50VT combo, which has some great clean and Soldano type overdive settings. Use the same mic/mixer setup with it. It's not as refined as your rig, but once you get a good thick stereo guitar sound whatever the means...it's very hard to go back!
Thanks again for the great videos! Very inspiring!
Excellent!
Another excellent video! I ended up getting a Effectrix Blackbird tube pre-amp for it's clean tone, which is stellar. I muck that up with a Two Notes Torpedo C.A.B. as well as my various pedals and EQ and I seem to get a wide variety of tones, but I do also have an Atomic Amplifire and a Boss SY-300, which I have set up on a different pair of channels and so I can dial in various tones and sounds to blend in with my main sound. The problem I have is ensuring all the gain and tone stages are set just right. it's a challenge keeping everything set right, and for that I have considered simplifying my setup.
I have a BluGuitar Amp 1 on my pedal board which uses a Russian nanotube. It weighs around 2 lbs and sounds incredible! I have BIAS Amp on my iPad that I will use from time to time but the Amp 1 is my main amp.
Great debate Bill! I'm actually having issues dealing with volume of the amp and recording. It's nice that we have options as guitarists to switch back and forward. I finally grabbed the Avid Eleven rack for a reasonable price for recording at home and during the evening especially! Thanks for your videos and reviews! Keep up to amazing work! 🎸🎸🎸
I tell ya what - the sales on the 11R over the holidays were killer. I almost decided to buy a second one as a spare!
I think your points about modelling are well made - I'm currently a father and husband, there is no way to get great tube tone when my wife and 3 kids are sleeping without some digital technology.
For me, modelling hasn't quite captured the headroom of a real tube amp when using dirt pedals. Also, something about the feel/responsiveness is still lacking.
My new hybrid rig is a tube head (Fender Bassbreaker 15) to Suhr Reactive Load box to effects loop of my Headrush pedalboard loaded with a Celestion IR.
This is more gear than I'd like for a small space, but it's my favorite for maximizing tube amp feel with digital convenience.
Nice!
Very good work!!!
You make awesome sounds with your guitar,very entertaining!!!
Keep on rockin' forever.
Cheers from Spain.
When Line 6 released M13 and HD Pods, many people were able to make sound so rich and dynamic that it was absolutely indistinguishable from tube amp in a mix or live recording, and then AXE FX happened, then Kemper profiler, etc. Tube amps already more of a convenience than a need.
Nice exploration of the effects chain, and the delay/amp sim configuration in it. Thumb up
Bill, we have so much in common. We are about the same age, married with children. I played in an alternative rock band in the 90's using tube amps and recently began playing ambient guitar. I started recording with amp modeling around 2002 for the same reasons you gave. it is so much easier and you get a cleaner recording. I do miss my marshall half stack though.
There is something about a Marshall 1/2 stack... 😎
Why not live in both worlds?!
I use combinations of analog and digital, tube and modeler/IR/plugin. They have pros and cons, so I don't think either is better than the other option.
Modelers/IRs/Plugins: often a lower cost to get into, more options out of the box, ease of workflow (once the learning curve is overcome), many of the things you've said, Bill. When I play bass, I am completely amp-less and achieve my sound through combinations of digital and analog preamp pedals, effect pedals and a Two Notes CAB for my cabinet IR. Placing reverb and delay AFTER the cab sim does wonders to the tone that just cannot be accomplished live. In addition, recording is a breeze and live shows sound just like how I want them to because I have already dialed in the mic placement and EQ settings to send to the mixing board.
Amps: still gotta give some love here. Enthusiasts, particularly recording enthusiasts should really learn about working with an amp, a cabinet, a room, with mic placement and with their effect signal chain. There is a heap of experimentation that can occur here and provide wonderful learning experiences that can be applied in the digital realm for better tone. A major downside of the plugin and modelling advancement is that many people just apply stock settings based off of what they see on RUclips or in forums. This creates a bit of a cookie-cutter sound and music can become bland because it all sounds so similar. Learning recording and signal chain techniques with tube amps, and the limits they impose force us as musicians to become adaptive and creative BECAUSE they are limiting.
In the end, it doesn't matter which route you take. I think it is important to learn, to experiment and to have fun with music instead of enlisting to one side of the debate or the other.
Slowly making the switch. I was against digital amplification for years. But as you said, it’s improved quite drastically. I plan to get myself a Headrush unit soon.
I'm no longer using tube amps. In my studio I'm using a modeling pre-amp and an effects system to record audio tracks on my DAW. I'm mostly interested in recording now because the wide variety of sounds on soft synths are my inspiration
Actually I'm just playing at home for fun, maybe recording in the future. I love my Mesa Mini Rectifier 25 and TA-15 for rocking the house.
An excellent tool for recording tube amps without having to deal with cabs and microphones is the Universal Audio OX.
In the evening for lower volume, and especially for ambient type of music with lots of effects I absolutely love my Axe-Fx. As you said, you can put your modulation effects after the amp/cab section. It is so versatile and easy to set up and to experiment with different settings within seconds. This is absolutely a dream to work with, especially for recording.
MINI RECTO! Those things are lovely. As is the OX Box - and it should be, they cost about the same, haha.
Edit: I never used an AxeFX, but I know some bands that absolutely swear by them.
My tip toe into amp modelling is the Boss Katana 100 combo which only in V3 firmware allows stereo recording. You can record in standby with no amp sound, just monitors so achieves what you suggested. Yet to achieve the sounds and ease of recording with this, just takes work. I also invested in a Soundcraft 12mtk mixer usb and mic up using shure sm57, SE Voodoo VR1 left side, beyer M69 and beyer M160 right side to using SE reflectors GF acoustic screens to a Marshall Origin 20h with Greenback and Creamback 12in, Laney IRT studion G12 Anniversay and Jensen C12k so 4 tracks to create one guitar stereo image. Using a mixer means panning, eq, adding reverb and delay and studio standards is superior to just an audio interface at a cheaper price. The cost has been incremental whereas amp models you shell out over $1500 in one hit or $2200 if you want an Axe FX III. I also use S-gear plugin which is superb and now Pete Thorn’s PT100 with UA. So the other option is plugins and no modelling at all which is cheaper and more incremental. So 3 routes to recording 1) mic’d or DI real amps 2) modelling Line6, Kemper, Fractal, Boss. 3) Plugins S-gear, UA, Postive Grid, Amplitude. If I was strapped for space and needed to keep condo volumes I would use plugins and a bigger computer. Real amps are great when you can turn them up to at least 6 otherwise for recording the plugins are the easiest. For rehearsal and creation I use real amps. For recording I tend to use plugins first and then boss katana and then finish off with mic’d up amps. For videos I feed the headphone output into my Panasonic FX1000 stereo mic input and then have a great syncd sound recording with the video feed.
I use both these days. I have a wonderful amp head that I love - a Laney IRT Studio - and it sends out two signals through USB. One is the tube amp's sound. The other is a clean DI, which I run into a variety of Amp modelers. This gives me crazy versatility for recording purposes.
I'm getting older now: I don't tour anymore, and live shows aren't a frequent thing. When I do play live, it's usually a solo acoustic show. But when I play electric live, the IRT is way more than just a gain monster: it's a lovely & versatile little unit.
My Rig, if it helps to illustrate:
Schecter Hellraiser w/Sustainiac or homemade Baritone (Mahogany Strat w/Kiesel pickups)
Hand-wired Op Amp Big Muff clone
Line 6 HX FX
Laney IRT Studio
Weird half-stack cab (2 Celestion Classic Leads in an x-pattern with OEM 10" speakers)
Usually rely on IRs for recording.
Or conversely:
Ibanez Acoustic
Funny Hat (not strictly necessary).
thumbs up for funny hat
+ 1 for something like the IRT Studio, or a load box with cab sims at home.
I am a new guitar player, but.... My time with a physical amp that was a modeler was about a year before I decided that Garageband and Bias FX 2 had many more tone options over the amp. I still have my pedals, because I love modulating reverbs!
I stopped using amps and mics back in the early 90's when the original Tech21 Sansamp pedal was introduced. Been going direct ever since. Line 6 PODs, a Johnson J-Station, Yamaha THR-10, Tech21 Flyrigs, and Mooer Mini-Preamps do it for me. I've even gone direct with an Earthquaker Devices Acapulco Gold right to my interface and used an Ignite NADIR VST as my amp simulator to tame it. No going back to mics for me. I'm very happy with my direct sounds.
you are a cool dude bro.I can see why you are fine with amp modelling because of the type of music you play.I prefer tubes because of the changes that happen with more volume.I also had some old transistor amps that just sounded better turned up super loud.I play raw rock and funk stuff,and I love the intense insanity of an amp that is only just being controlled by its user.I detest almost all effects pedals(especially reverb,unless its natural reverb from a room used on a recording).But also love prog rock and effects when I listen to that kind of music...hypocritical but true.I just don't like fake effects when I am playing my guitar.i like digging in with my fingers and not relying or using effects at all,except for wah and amp distortion.your volume reason was cool.my mesa booge valve amp has amazing amp distortion even on super low volume so I am lucky.rock on bro
I fired my Bogner combo for a quilter-head about 1 year ago! I still miss it at times (mainly because it looked great and the quilter... doesn’t). However it is such a practical great sounding little box of joy! Happy times, plus it lives on my pedalboard! That being said, there are interesting images coming out of the One Control factory...
I agree with the sheer convenience of digital, but I still can't get away from tube amps for cleanish ambient music as I find the high end "pierces through" layers of delay and reverb better, and this is magnified as you layer recorded tracks. I go direct for 100% wet ambient / cinematic , and I use a suhr reactive load for late night distorted stuff, but to me the high end chime just gets screwed up with digital (unless you are trying to nail that direct clean sound vibe as a specific flavor). Personally, I've had better results with an attenuated tube amp for ambient than digital but to each his own - glad you are happy with your current setup!
I think that modelling amps and tube amps definitely have their place! I think the answer to the question “would it sound better if I recorded prog rock through a modelling amp or a tube amp?” Would be through the tube amp, for example. And the opposite would be true (I think) for ambient guitar! I think it comes down to how you get your distorted tones most of all... Solid state amps are great at taking and playing with pedals, oftentimes having an exceptional amount of headroom, so if you’re mainly using pedals to get your distortion and want to keep all the articulation, solid state amps are a fantastic choice. That’s probably the defining characteristic, to me.
I play progressive rock, that flirts with metal, so for me, having a good saturated amp distortion makes all the difference, but I definitely agree with your closing statement: that amp modellers and solid state have been getting better and better. I think we are going to reach a point where they’ll be indistinguishable, but the modelling amps will pack more features than a tube amp would.
I expect in light of this, we are going to see more and more hybrid amps with digital features, and I’m really excited for it!
You made good points. I love tube amps, however they are not practical for everyone or every situation. I have a very nice mesa and fender tube setup, but I also use modeling. It gives you more power and flexibility. Also as you said modelling has gotten muuuuch better, its also got cheaper. You can get a decent modelling setup for under a grand. Its stable, flexible and inspiring. A tube amp, while great, is going to cost a ton more to even get close to what your modeller will do.
I have a 30-watt tube Laney VC30 with 2 x 10" modified to sound like a mini Twin that I use for live work, a little 15-watt hybrid Fender Super Champ XD for home practice, a rack mount Behringer V-Amp2 Pro for recording (sounds great if you know how to EQ it) and a smaller kidney shaped V-amp2 for a backup at gigs. (Hey it takes up almost no room at all in the van and will get you through the night.) Plenty of room for all kinds of amps. Like Allan Holdsworth said, "Tube, analog, digital, what's the difference as long as you get the sound you want?"
I haven't had a tube amp in many years untill recently, play for pleasure at home, used my Yamaha THR 10 and Boss Katana 100 for the past few years, both are great and the Katana sounds like any other great tube amp, tone wise one will never tell the difference, but about a month ago got myself Marshall DSL amp, and realized that Dynamics wise you still can't fake real tube response, and that Marshall tone is just glorious, yes the Katana is a great sounding amp and easy to record with the USB but Marshall is the only amp I use now.
I used to use amp-modeling (back when it wasn't great). Convenience was terrific compared to micing an amp, but I honestly don't like having to wade through menu after menu to select the components of my sound. I switched back to real amps and an array of pedals and it suits me much better. I like dedicated knobs WAY more than menus. I guess I'm simple that way. When I switched back, the tube amp was the clear winner in terms of sound but I know modelers have come a long way and sound comparable especially in a recording. Maybe not so much in the room.
I love my amps but there are amp modelers i love too. No reason to take sides but just love them all if they give you what you want.
Totally agree!
Depends on what is defined as better. With a tube amp you can keep it running almost forever. With digital once it starts electrically falling apart (circuit board failures,etc) it’ll just end up in a landfill somewhere. Both have pluses and minuses but for me tube is the way to go until digital becomes as such where repair and longevity are. Ether implemented than what they are now.
My gateway to an amp-less life was going stereo out from my Boss ME25, one side to my amp, the other to the PA. It sounded so good to me, I wondered why I needed to drag an amp around. Depending on the situation, I’ll bring an amp or not. No big deal these days.
I’m a fellow ambient guitarist and use both. I’ve been a Line 6 user/artist since day 1 (recently purchased an HX Stomp) but still love my Fender tube amps and can’t seem to part with them... yet. ✌🏻
Nice vid as always, Bill! While I see the advantages of amp modeling, my experience has been the opposite. I play and record mostly ambient guitar on a silent environment, I've gone from amp modeling to tubes. I don't use tube amps, I use a tube preamp instead, and I plug it to an effects unit that features a cab simulator. I use analog fuzz and overdrive pedals in front of it and that way I get all the tones I use. I think it's a excellent way to get a almost all tube tone (lacking the power stage) in a "bedroom" situation, I get sweet tones and I think I will never go back to amp modeling in the future, but who knows...
It was interesting to hear because Ive just sold my amp once and for all pretty much for the same reasons.
I dont need the amp sounding,but more likely the versatility and the comfort.
But digital vs tube amp depends on the style as well, as you said when the production is full of effects then it doesnt matter which one you pick. But for heavy riffing and creating creamy bluesy sound the tube amp is still better (a bit).
Some solid states are really good too ! Great video.
I miss my tube amps from back in the day. My Mesa Mark III through a 4x12 was a beast. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the modelers built in to Logic Pro, though, and look forward to trying out some others.
I have a to agree about the amps in Logic. I think they are underrated for sure!
I started with a soild state bass amp with a guitar so that didn't really do me any favors and when I finally had money I bought a zoom g5 to try out multiple amps and cab sounds. I then fell into the trap of needing a tube amp and a cab because I was joining a band and needed to fit in the mix so like most of us I set out for the biggest bang for the buck. Ended up getting a Bugera trirec and a Carvin 4x12 with British series 100w speakers. I chose the trirec for the same reason you chose the thd, the ability to swap tubes and I did find a set of tubes I really enjoy. 2 5881wrx and 2 kt88s.
The thing that holds me back from fully going into modelling is getting that same set up in a modeler. With the exciting mooer ge300 coming out (with IR maker) I think I can finally impulse and tone steal the set up once it comes out. but for now I'm using a preamp live with fx and a carvin sx100.
Bass player here but I actually run into an Avalon u5 DI which is mainly designed for bass and acoustic guitars.
amp modeling is getting better each and every year. Like Achilles and the tortoise legend. Amp modeling is getting so close that one day it will be a tube amp.
Hello,thx for this post.I use everything possible to achieve tones.BUT my favorite is still my Boogie MK4b head and Recto 212 cab and pedalboard that NEVER gets out of my studio.I mostly record my guitars with this rig.
There is a speaker mute on the MK4.
I've always used solid state amps due to the lighter we weight, peace of mind that it wilk work consistently regardless of the room, and most of all price point. I currently use a Mooer pre-amp pedal combined with a speaker simulated DI (the mini DI also by Mooer) for my main rig. I still use a couple of solid-state amps for jam sessions, or if I don't have sufficient monitoring. In which case I just plug my unbalanced output to the power amp in (effects return) whilst the balanced output goes to the p.a.
I'm with you on this one Bill... !!!...........
I use a tube amp for live band stuff. For the 6 week ambient ep challenge, I'm using the effects in the box without the amp modeler.
Nice!
I plan to buy HX Stomp in the near future. Huge advantage is also, that I can use same box for both my guitar and bass and it will still sound awesome
I have not demoed it with a bass, but it does very well.
Hybrid setup is the way to go. Tubes for PRE, Modeling for POST.
I can see that!
I'll never give up my '64 fender grandmaster! :)
i sold my EVH 5150 iii head about a week ago and purchased a Mooer Preamp live. My reasons for doing so are just about the same as your own. Smaller foot print (my entire rig is now on my pedal board), versatility, the ability to have multiple diffetent tones to create with, and streamlining the recording process.... so far....i feel i made the right choice. but man it was a hard one lol
Ive never owned a tube amp. They are too expensive and heavy and if you have a gig where there are stairs involved ... well gravity sucks. Id love to own a tube amp but its not a priority. I Have a fender champion 100 its light and loud as hell and has great tone, Im happy.
I have a new Vox ac30 that I love to pieces, however I`m primarily not an ambient player. If ambient guitar was my primary interest, I would contemplate jumping ship and going the modeling route. Only because the effects can really be a bigger part of the instrument than the amp.
A good valve amp and cab only wins out if you don't mike up when playing live or have equally expensive recording equipment (mics, preamp, interface, etc. ), when recording.
In every other scenario, decent moddeling wins in "audio quality", price, flexibility, stability, transportation.
That being said. I really love my 100W valve amp :D
So my conclusion is that valve amps are for fun (like a motorcycle or sports car), and moddeling is for serious (like a transporter or mini van) :)
I as you Bill use digital for the convenience instead of lugging a 70 lbs tube amp I have a 14 lbs Kemper and a 30 lbs Orange. It gives me every thing I need and it sounds great direct to FOH. I also have a HX Stomp that I love but it took more fiddling for FOH it's my backup. I use the Kemper powerhead like a traditional amp into the Orange 112 but get no bleed to FOH because I'm running direct. We play small to medium size club's so sometimes we don't run everything into the PA there's nothing like the amp in a room sound to my ears plus were not trying to have a silent stage. We run IEM'S so if nothing is in the PA I'll run with only one ear in which took a while to get used to but it works.
Ambient and experimental music is much more suited for DI recording with modeling than more traditional styles. I still like analog amp modeling better than digital. Sansamp for bass and acoustic guitar. Joyo American sound for electric. I use fuzz, boost, active volume, wah, envelope filter, OD, mooer mod factory, provibe into Joyo American sound for analog amp modeling into, ehx canyon, TC hall of fame stereo out to two L/R DOD rubbernecks into Eventide timefactor into t-rex polyswitch for buffered stereo a/b. A to stereo fender tube combos and B to stereo analoge speaker sims to studio interface to PA or KRK monitors or phones...one speaker sim is a behringer ultra-G di box the other is Tomsline ASR3. The polyswitch A/B lets me easily match my DI sound coming out of studio monitors with the sound of the tube amps. The Joyo american sound amp modeler really shines as a fender sounding direct device and benefits greatly by adding a stand alone speaker sim. It also sounds good in front of amp or in the loop..great pedal, got mine for $29 shipped. My speaker sims are a work in progress. I may add a digitech cabdryvr since their price is coming down to have some variety with speakers. I see more loadable IR stereo pedals on the horizon but the cadryvr is good value for $79 shipped..I don't mind digital speaker sims, but analog amp modeling is essential for me going direct.
They make really good attenuators these days. I can use my tube amps to practice in my apartment.
I do own two tube amps and I am a very happy man when I have an opportunity to play them, but as I do most of my playing at night when my kid is sleeping I do most of my playing through Boss GT-001 - it's a compact desktop version of their flagship GT-100. I must say it works reasonably well, I particularly like some magic they do on the input which makes it so that I've never yet had to worry about clipping or gain staging when playing it. Come to think of it I don't even know how to check levels on it ;)
I've tried using a setup where I plug my amp into a load box and that into a cab sim and this works quite well, but the amount of setup is too much for me, at least when practising. There are some new studio/practice tube amps with a built in load box and cab sim, like the Hughes & Kettner or the latest Marshall DSL series and I do plan to get one of those in the future, but haven't done so yet.
When it comes to software emulations I've tried several options and my conclusion is that a lot actually depends on cab simulator / cab impulses used with the software. For example Waves GTR3 is not really considered a particularly great amp sim, but the "ACME" impulses in their cab sim library suddenly make those amp models come alive, especially if you layer 2 cabs or even 2 amps - which is very easy to do in this particular VST. Similarly Bias Amp is generally highly regarded, but I found it's built-in cab tones boring, until I splurged on the pro version with more cabs (and extra preamp and power amp models), only then did it actually show it's capabilities. My recent favourite is Waves PRS Supermodels, but it eats CPU like a horse. Also, worth mentioning, Kuassa Cerberus for bass amp simulation is nice and rather CPU friendly.
Another good tip I've discovered, besides experimenting with different cab models, is to use some actual, physical OD/Distortion/Fuzz pedal on your signal before the amp sim. For some reason even a lowly Tube Screamer can make a lot of difference and make it sound more "correct". My two current favourites for this task are MXR Shinjuku Drive and EHX Germanium 4 Big Muff. For some reason, even if the amp sim does offer built-in pedal simulations, those often don't sound as good as the physical stomp boxes.
Oh and a final note. when comparing amp sim to the real amp make sure you are comparing apples to apples. It is easy to dismiss the sim as weak sounding if you are comparing an amp sim playing through 7 or 8 inch studio monitors to an amp pushing a 4x12 cab. But that cab won't sound all that strong when it's recorded and played back through the same monitors.
I'm still a tube guy for sure, but I play as much blues as ambient where the tube breakup is part of what I love.
Now - if I played blues, I would be questioning my choice to use an amp modeler. Hard to beat a good tube amp for that genre!
I play blues and I'm thinking about a modeler. I'm so enticed with having everything under my fingertips and I feel that I will be pleased with the sound, due to the fact I don't use a lot of gain anyway. I can't keep a tube amp at home (apartment) and I'd like to be able to record with ease. The only thing I need to decide is whether I want to go with a Gigboard or HX Stomp.
The Thumbnail actually brought me here!
#5 before the preamp thru effects loop and using your recording effects from protools or garage band recording is a world of its own I love my micro cube as a modeler amp small cheap easy to use I split my signal make a stereo track or use 2 mics a close mic and a room mic I still like a miced cab and room sounds even with a modeler
All good reasons to move across to modelling. I use it a bit when I'm travelling, but at home, effortless tone from my H&K Triamp through a decent quad is what I want to hear. I have the space, and can turn it up adequately. I have issues with latency when I'm using sims while in a hotel room. I need a better interface, but the UA Apollo Twin that I want is très expensive. I don't want to update my laptop, would lose too much connectivity, and can't really afford to either. I have no issues with tonal quality of modelling but latency drives me nuts. The only time I have ever seen dog-ears Chapman fooled was by the Kemper. But, hours of programming and profiling were needed to produce the same tone that merely turning on the actual amp produced. I prefer to invest my "IT time" into Ableton.
Hi Bill! Great topic, I grew up in the 90s and early 2000's and I guess that must've been the time when a lot of things regarding music and guitar started shifting to digital and efficiency. Most of the true tone seekers still did it the traditional way but a lot of more modern players started using digital modelers. I currently own a basic 30-watt Orange combo valve amp. It sounds amazing when you crank it up to meet the drums in a jam room! One thing that caught my eye recently was the Axe FX III, have you heard/seen anything about it yet? Some musicians that use it are putting out some stellar quality guitar stuff and I'm genuinely curious about it, from what I can tell the options are almost endless and they are all apparently superb quality. Nice vid, cheers man!
Yes the Axe FX III looks pretty amazing. Would love to try one at some point!
i mostly play metal but i switched from using my Zoom G3xn as my Amp/cab/fx to a Marshall Mg100hdfx and a Joyo Zombie into a marshall 212 cab :) and i am so happy with the new setup also i Built a small pedalboard (tuner/noise gate/tube screamer/wah/delay) and when i want to record something, i just mic the cab but for practicing late at night/recording i use Vst plugins ;)
I play my electric guitars through two Fender Blues Juniors. I like them very much and I run various effects through 'em and I love playin' stereo. Fer my acoustic electric guitars I use a Fishman Loudbox Artist. I may snag a second Fishman Loudbox someday to play my acoustics in stereo.
Good video, I haven't used a tube amp in twenty years, used to be the minimum requirement to have a 100 watt Fender or Marshall. Truth is it took my brain a long time to get to grips with the fact that a 100watt RMS amp is NOT 10 times louder than a 10 watt amp. But that's a whole nother discussion. Today a 15 watt amp is great for home and when miced, more than enough for any venue. I have a Fender and a Vox now, both 15 watts , more than enough and your statement about adding effects , makes little difference to the tone. I do still use "real" amps even for recording, but no need for a tube amp. Having said all of this having a blast with a Marshall double stack will never loose it's magic. Just can't get a chance to do it too often .................
As much as I like playing through my Mesa and 5150, I've been very impressed with my Yamaha THR10X modeling practice amp. I agree that it seems every year modelers get closer and closer to the real thing. That said, I would like to try out a reactive load attenuator and two notes torpedo for recording tube amps instead of the traditional micing method.
I'd like to get a nice modeler someday and I agree with this, except one little thing; you can get FX after a tube amp's speaker, but it's kinda dated now: have the guy running the board add it. Usually this turns into garbage if you have a sound guy you're not familiar with or they aren't familiar with wtf they're doing (this is often, you're aware), but if done right you can approach studio level quality. You can also ditch the board and use just a mic and interface, at least at home.
A lot of the big, intricate, pristine, professional shows still utilize a lot of assistance at the board for at least dramatic effects and backing tracks, maybe more than before, though the effects have fallen out of favor unless its vocals or drums. Most guitarists prefer to do most of the work themselves, as we know. But honestly when it's done right it's pretty much like doing it in post or on a PC plugin or a modeler. But of course, it also requires a PA or at least a mic and interface, and a computer. There are other similar methods that retain a tube amp with post-FX like attenuator loops, DI's and/or emulators/IR's. Most of them use a class D reamping section though.
And yeah, I totally just used a semicolon and a colon in the same sentence. Pretty sure I even did it correctly.
Also regarding the stereo stuff it's definitely cheaper to use a modeling rig, but ease of use kinda depends on the menu within the device. I think I'm going to go down the expensive route of using dedicated stereo FX like Strymon. For now I'm using an old ADA EL34 stereo power amp with the fx loop send on the "dry" amp feeding it.
At home and at jams/shows/practices with a good PA or no other guitarists I'm just using a 5W amp with the send feeding the stereo amp(s). I'm not sure why but the big stereo amp(s) don't overpower it whatsoever. This may be just how it goes or it may be how the FX loop is configured. I'll know better when I can try it with another amp. May be adding a loop to a '76 Super Lead for just that.
OK mister grammer expert! :-) Fair point on board effects. We did that in the prog-rock band I mentioned. in the early years, we took a reel to reel tape deck along and added into the effects loop of the board as a delay. Sounded great, but was certainly a cumbersome!
@@chordsoforion Oh man I bet you're right on both fronts there, beautiful sound and a pain to set up.
I went the attenuator route after getting burned out on a line6 pod 500hd. I got good sounds from it but I never get really satisfied. It never felt right. I kept tweaking and tuning and mucking about. So I can run my tube amps hot now but remain at a "tv" volume level. I have a hx effects unit now and that's so good I sold all my pedals bar one boutique pedal that has a special place with me.
I have considered the helix(lite/stomp) and kemper but I'm deadly afraid I'll end up in a circle of tweaking and tuning again. So for this generation I'm kinda set. For really quiet practice I use a katana head that's also my backup amp in case of bad stuff (TM). Considering how well that unit is doing it's really promising for other modellers. With the nextone coming out, and stuff like the black spirit by H&K I honestly think these are the years modelers in whatever form are getting good enough to finally replace tube amps.
I think your point about getting lost in tweaking and tuning with amp modeler. Definitely a temptation!
My experience is very similar - tube amps, a period not playing guitar as I had a family and then in the late 1990s I bought a Line 6 POD when they were first released and haven't looked back. I think I've had pretty much every Line 6 unit ever made and currently have a Line 6 rack unit. I have a low wattage valve amp but when recording its digital modelling all the way.
Prog Guitarplayer! Cool, i almost expected your career progression.... I always record with different amp sims. BUT in some cases i also use a real tube preamp pedal (TwoNotes LeLead), that sends into my interface and different cab sims in my DAW. I think thats a good compromise. And it really sounds amazing at all volume levels!
Tube amps with DI out. You can have pedals after amp if you want to. But I also mic them up. Hughes & Kettner Deluxe 20 and Blackstar AE 10 Artist.
What do you use (or not) for speaker cab simulation with the DI?
@@chordsoforion I use a presonus studiolive 16.0.2 and inside my mac I use Agile Ampkit. The beauty of the studiolive mixer is that you can reroute individual channels inside the daw for extra fxloops. Also, the Deluxe 20 has its own cab sim on its output.
Oh man, you should totally play prog again, your track with guitar distortion had some cool stuff :)
All my proggies bandmates are in another state! But, maybe some day...
I only have a Vox MV50 Clean as an amp, and a cabinet with 12" Celestion Cream. Sounds so good live. But the real deal is my pedalboard and I only use the direct signal from my board for recording.
I live in an apartment building, so recording an amp at night is out of the question... and I'm a night person. I do have a Two Notes Le Clean, if I want to add a tube to the chain, but I don't like the amp modeler in it and mostly use it for the EQ, if at all. I like the sounds I can get from my pedals and guitars and I don't feel that I'm lacking anything. My work flow keeps getting better and I feel recording is easy and fun, and many of my tracks are the result of having a bit of fun instead of carefully planned hard work.
I never have used a tube amp. I have a Tube King pedal, that I've had for 13 years now, and I don't feel the need to spend a 1000 dollars paying for the ultimate amp. I have used a Roland Cube 30 before, and now I use a Peavey Vyper. I play a lot of acoustic blues/jazz/ambient music. The sound is in your fingers. A lot of people don't realize that B. B. King used solid state amps most of the time. I also just started using the Line 6 Sonic Port, and the amp models it has to coincide with an interface is pretty doggone good. Peace brother.
Good video Bill.
Agree with everything you said here!
I use tube amps and i have easy stereo setup to record, just plug reactive load attenuator instead of the speaker (i use two notes torpedo captor), and stereo effects after this (normal jack cable, i dont use XLR and external audio interface), then i just plug into line in of my PC soundcard (Sound Blaster Audigy Rx) with wall of sound IR loader. I have easy recording stereo setup this way, i can play silently on my headphones and using the "thru" output on the captor while still using stereo monitors with signal affected by my NUX Atlantic i have wet/dry/wet rig if i want/can play "not silently" (i have a small child).
Also i recommend Fender Super Champ X2 as an amazing pedal platform.