Finally something that makes sense. 👏🙏🏻 Thank you, Kim! Not to disregard anyone else's experience, but listening to many about non-duality and no self, brought so much confusion that I was not able to make anymore sense. And then I have asked what the truth that is not seen is, and Kim popped in and made some light.
Nice take on free will and the awakened individual. It takes a free individual to have free will and ultimately it may be like safety in that it is a relative concept. The choice between good vs evil is a good example of choice for humans. The fact that there is any goodness at all in society suggest that free will in the choice between good vs evil does exist. If it didn’t our selfish will would have destroyed humanity a long time ago.
I don't see how advocates of awakening say there's no free will when the 4th noble truth of buddhism (the way to end suffering) is entirely about choice. The 8-fold noble path is about choice. (Right understanding, right thought, speech, action, livlihood, effort, mindfulness, concentration). The word "right" is repeated _eight_ times. If it was just "it is what it is," maybe "right" would occur once as "the right path" or something. But, each element of the way is qualified. There's wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action (and so on). That begs for free will. I think there's a duality in this topic that I'm talking past them, and they're talking past me. At one level (as I explained) there's choice. But, at another, there's not? For example, awakening progresses from stream-entry, once returner, never returner & arahantship. The arahant is incapable of wrong anything. Their awakening is to a point that they can't incur more karma? (something like that). That sounds a lot like "no free will." The choice to be "right [everything]" is part of their nature by that life, they lack the capability(?) to choose wrong understanding, thought, action (and so on). Physical reality is seemingly contradictory too. There's the physics of "big stuff" (you, me, the car you drive). And then there's the physics of "small stuff" (quantum; the particles that make up big stuff; where everything that can happen does; the speed of light is not a constraint on reality -- i.e., entanglement not only occurs _instantly_ across _any_ distance, but can even affect the _past,_ the "delayed slot experiment.") Reality is both. It depends on context. The practicality of "physics of big stuff" affects us more than the strange nature of the quantum "small stuff" realm. I can't walk around saying "everything that can happen does" (as I see a car barreling toward me). It behooves me to step out of the way because I exist in that reality. I think awakening is like that. Focusing on what's in our control is free will, choosing a path (to end suffering). Focusing on what isn't there (yet?) is inspirational but not practical. By practicing what is in our ability to choose to do (to give space to in our mind) we end up at the no-free-will state (arahantship)? Focusing too much on the latter is cheating? Trying to have what isn't there yet? Not that it's all wrong. Just not arrived at yet?
They say there is no free will and there is no mind yet they use their free will and their mind to reject free will in the mind - oh the irony of anti-christ. 💘 Im very much glad Kim decided to share his life insights, it will in time help many people.
I wonder if everyone's talking past each other due to frames of reference? Like the story sightless men touching different parts of an elephant, arguing about how they'd describe what an elephant is? (incabable of seeing the larger topic?). For example, scientists are increasingly proposing 10-11 dimensions in order to accommodate the quantum reality we can observe. If think of a 2-dimension person, they'd be incapable of comprehending what 3-dimensions is like (up, down, round would mean nothing). So, how incomprehensible would 7-8 dimensions above us be to us? What I'm getting at is: the multiverse is a part of that (explanation of our observable quantum reality). That says "anything that can happen does happen." Anytime there is a choice, that's a quantum event & the universe branches off where either choice really does happen. You chose to watch this video. You're in this universe where you chose that. But, in another universe you didn't (you did something else). Now think about what that would be like to exist in that reality. There's a you who absolutely experiences free will. There's no denying it. And yet, at a higher level.... free will doesn't appear to matter. Or, maybe it does. Maybe the karmic slate looks _this_ way, and being still (present in the moment, not living in the head as much) is a way to not incur quantum events (more proliferation of "both happened."). Then the karmic slate weighted more toward less volitional karma, quieter, less "work it out further." Maybe working it out is producing less karma (by choosing nothing). I went off on a tangent there. :) But, I think it's humbling that we could live in a reality where there is no free will (at some level we don't have access to, limited access?). And, the reality we do experience is part of that for some reason? Some furtherance of... what? Conscious evolution? To me, that gives some common ground to speak with a no-free-will person, that we could be talking about something larger, not mutually exclusive.
@@markfuller This ...... Now think about what that would be like to exist in that reality. There's a you who absolutely experiences free will. There's no denying it. And yet, at a higher level.... free will doesn't appear to matter. Or, maybe it does. Maybe the karmic slate looks this way, and being still (present in the moment, not living in the head as much) is a way to not incur quantum events (more proliferation of "both happened."). Then the karmic slate weighted more toward less volitional karma, quieter, less "work it out further." Maybe working it out is producing less karma (by choosing nothing). especially the bit about being present having less quantum effect. BLEW MY MIND I like the way you think, friend 🥰
It's another pattern that most of these teachers just happened to have been on the spiritual path or at least interested before their awakening but then afterwards reject a spiritual path and teach there's nothing you can do to awaken because there is no one there to do anything.
Excellent teaching working on having a will that is free of all these selves nudging you all the time is a great reward for all the hard work put into this...
@2:32 (science, brain research: reality occurs before your conscious mind experiences it). This is a very interesting topic to me, pertaining to initial awakening (recognizing "I'm not my thoughts;" individuating the observer of the thinker). A couple decades ago, Libet discovered (in brain activity) that your choice is made 1/4-second before you consciously say "I choose that!" Science turned that into a debate about whether free will exists. But, I feel like that misses the point. If you know that your conscious experience (5% of the brain, distracted half the time, so it's more like you're 2.5% "there" at any time) _emerges_ from the 95% subconscious part of the brain (the _scale_ involved), and you know the experience is pretty much done before it emerges to you, then you can add another second delay before reacting to your constant (moment-by-moment) experience. Put a gap or space between your experience (as it emerges) and your conscious "going with it" which we tend to do reflexively until we begin to awaken, practicing mindfulness/vipassana, observing our mind. To me, that discovery is very consistent or helpful to mindfulness. It's like I want to stand in front of a mirror wearing a sign saying "don't believe a word this guy says." :) The subconscious is irrational, tries to help us in ways that often aren't helpful. Knowing it's _really_ like this (realizing it, making it real to one's self) is powerful to me. Think of optical illusions? The brain does that in _many_ ways beyond optical. Filling in blanks to make sense of things (what's "sense" but your past conditioning, dis-integrated in the subconscious, etc.). There are a couple tedx talks about this. "Self-Transformation Through Mindfulness, Dr. David Vago." He's discovered that emergent "experience" starts 1/2 second before we experience it. Also, "Paying Attention & Mindfulness, Sam Chase." To me, the take away is that the unconscious (unawakened, un-presant) "default mode" of existing is just to run with whatever emerges like it's real. That's the epitome of "no free-will." By practicing mindfulness (within this reality of how the brain works) one can observe what emerges, question it, choose not to run with some things, not react, not identify with, etc. That's free will right there, moment to moment.
I am at the beginning and came upon non duality about q couple of months ago during the dark night of the soul stage of the awakening. And I came upon this young girl who is using her knowledge of non duality (her version), preaching about having no free will and that if you don't do this or expect that, you won't get it. Now I am not really denying anyones experience, but it did not resonate with me at all. Because if there is no free will, then who made the choice for her to record her 1 on 1 sessions where she earned money and post them on RUclips? It just didn't resonate. And then another guy who said that Brahman was the reality, the rest is an illusion.
Love the spiritual content and principles - I like Putin and Russia, so you lost me on your political rant. Politics and spirituality, a slippery slope.
He lost me too on that one. Not the first time he shares his left leaning Political views. I like Putin and Russia too 🙂 Othervise great spiritual teachings🙏
Путин это не Россия, вы глубоко заблуждаетесь по поводу того, кого люди не никогда выбирали, кто всего навсего преемник предыдущей марионетки политического театра, нелюдей, которые веками обогащались на крови народа. Вам просто втирали почти 20 лет иллюзию о Путине, которая вам нравиться. Вы заметили, что с тех пор, 24 года правления Путина, демократия так и не прибыла в Россию, но тоталитаризм, пропаганда, иифляция, нестабильность и бедность России прибыла на Запад. И это реальность. You better choose carefully what you like, and do not mix tyrants with people who they oppress and drain.
@@kimmichaels-po4wz I'm not claiming to be politically unbiased, but I'm also not a a spiritual teacher or leader🙂 I appreciate and respect your spiritual teachings but we just do not share political views and I do not understand your need to mix those publicly. Just my take🙏
Finally something that makes sense. 👏🙏🏻
Thank you, Kim!
Not to disregard anyone else's experience, but listening to many about non-duality and no self, brought so much confusion that I was not able to make anymore sense. And then I have asked what the truth that is not seen is, and Kim popped in and made some light.
Nice take on free will and the awakened individual. It takes a free individual to have free will and ultimately it may be like safety in that it is a relative concept. The choice between good vs evil is a good example of choice for humans. The fact that there is any goodness at all in society suggest that free will in the choice between good vs evil does exist. If it didn’t our selfish will would have destroyed humanity a long time ago.
I don't see how advocates of awakening say there's no free will when the 4th noble truth of buddhism (the way to end suffering) is entirely about choice. The 8-fold noble path is about choice. (Right understanding, right thought, speech, action, livlihood, effort, mindfulness, concentration). The word "right" is repeated _eight_ times. If it was just "it is what it is," maybe "right" would occur once as "the right path" or something. But, each element of the way is qualified. There's wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action (and so on). That begs for free will.
I think there's a duality in this topic that I'm talking past them, and they're talking past me. At one level (as I explained) there's choice. But, at another, there's not? For example, awakening progresses from stream-entry, once returner, never returner & arahantship. The arahant is incapable of wrong anything. Their awakening is to a point that they can't incur more karma? (something like that). That sounds a lot like "no free will." The choice to be "right [everything]" is part of their nature by that life, they lack the capability(?) to choose wrong understanding, thought, action (and so on). Physical reality is seemingly contradictory too. There's the physics of "big stuff" (you, me, the car you drive). And then there's the physics of "small stuff" (quantum; the particles that make up big stuff; where everything that can happen does; the speed of light is not a constraint on reality -- i.e., entanglement not only occurs _instantly_ across _any_ distance, but can even affect the _past,_ the "delayed slot experiment.") Reality is both. It depends on context.
The practicality of "physics of big stuff" affects us more than the strange nature of the quantum "small stuff" realm. I can't walk around saying "everything that can happen does" (as I see a car barreling toward me). It behooves me to step out of the way because I exist in that reality. I think awakening is like that. Focusing on what's in our control is free will, choosing a path (to end suffering). Focusing on what isn't there (yet?) is inspirational but not practical. By practicing what is in our ability to choose to do (to give space to in our mind) we end up at the no-free-will state (arahantship)? Focusing too much on the latter is cheating? Trying to have what isn't there yet? Not that it's all wrong. Just not arrived at yet?
They say there is no free will and there is no mind yet they use their free will and their mind to reject free will in the mind - oh the irony of anti-christ. 💘
Im very much glad Kim decided to share his life insights, it will in time help many people.
I wonder if everyone's talking past each other due to frames of reference? Like the story sightless men touching different parts of an elephant, arguing about how they'd describe what an elephant is? (incabable of seeing the larger topic?). For example, scientists are increasingly proposing 10-11 dimensions in order to accommodate the quantum reality we can observe. If think of a 2-dimension person, they'd be incapable of comprehending what 3-dimensions is like (up, down, round would mean nothing). So, how incomprehensible would 7-8 dimensions above us be to us?
What I'm getting at is: the multiverse is a part of that (explanation of our observable quantum reality). That says "anything that can happen does happen." Anytime there is a choice, that's a quantum event & the universe branches off where either choice really does happen. You chose to watch this video. You're in this universe where you chose that. But, in another universe you didn't (you did something else).
Now think about what that would be like to exist in that reality. There's a you who absolutely experiences free will. There's no denying it. And yet, at a higher level.... free will doesn't appear to matter. Or, maybe it does. Maybe the karmic slate looks _this_ way, and being still (present in the moment, not living in the head as much) is a way to not incur quantum events (more proliferation of "both happened."). Then the karmic slate weighted more toward less volitional karma, quieter, less "work it out further." Maybe working it out is producing less karma (by choosing nothing).
I went off on a tangent there. :) But, I think it's humbling that we could live in a reality where there is no free will (at some level we don't have access to, limited access?). And, the reality we do experience is part of that for some reason? Some furtherance of... what? Conscious evolution? To me, that gives some common ground to speak with a no-free-will person, that we could be talking about something larger, not mutually exclusive.
@@markfuller This ......
Now think about what that would be like to exist in that reality. There's a you who absolutely experiences free will. There's no denying it. And yet, at a higher level.... free will doesn't appear to matter. Or, maybe it does. Maybe the karmic slate looks this way, and being still (present in the moment, not living in the head as much) is a way to not incur quantum events (more proliferation of "both happened."). Then the karmic slate weighted more toward less volitional karma, quieter, less "work it out further." Maybe working it out is producing less karma (by choosing nothing).
especially the bit about being present having less quantum effect.
BLEW MY MIND
I like the way you think, friend 🥰
Absolutely grateful for finding you.
It's another pattern that most of these teachers just happened to have been on the spiritual path or at least interested before their awakening but then afterwards reject a spiritual path and teach there's nothing you can do to awaken because there is no one there to do anything.
Excellent teaching working on having a will that is free of all these selves nudging you all the time is a great reward for all the hard work put into this...
Nonduality is not teachable
@2:32 (science, brain research: reality occurs before your conscious mind experiences it). This is a very interesting topic to me, pertaining to initial awakening (recognizing "I'm not my thoughts;" individuating the observer of the thinker). A couple decades ago, Libet discovered (in brain activity) that your choice is made 1/4-second before you consciously say "I choose that!" Science turned that into a debate about whether free will exists. But, I feel like that misses the point. If you know that your conscious experience (5% of the brain, distracted half the time, so it's more like you're 2.5% "there" at any time) _emerges_ from the 95% subconscious part of the brain (the _scale_ involved), and you know the experience is pretty much done before it emerges to you, then you can add another second delay before reacting to your constant (moment-by-moment) experience. Put a gap or space between your experience (as it emerges) and your conscious "going with it" which we tend to do reflexively until we begin to awaken, practicing mindfulness/vipassana, observing our mind.
To me, that discovery is very consistent or helpful to mindfulness. It's like I want to stand in front of a mirror wearing a sign saying "don't believe a word this guy says." :) The subconscious is irrational, tries to help us in ways that often aren't helpful. Knowing it's _really_ like this (realizing it, making it real to one's self) is powerful to me. Think of optical illusions? The brain does that in _many_ ways beyond optical. Filling in blanks to make sense of things (what's "sense" but your past conditioning, dis-integrated in the subconscious, etc.).
There are a couple tedx talks about this. "Self-Transformation Through Mindfulness, Dr. David Vago." He's discovered that emergent "experience" starts 1/2 second before we experience it. Also, "Paying Attention & Mindfulness, Sam Chase."
To me, the take away is that the unconscious (unawakened, un-presant) "default mode" of existing is just to run with whatever emerges like it's real. That's the epitome of "no free-will." By practicing mindfulness (within this reality of how the brain works) one can observe what emerges, question it, choose not to run with some things, not react, not identify with, etc. That's free will right there, moment to moment.
I am at the beginning and came upon non duality about q couple of months ago during the dark night of the soul stage of the awakening. And I came upon this young girl who is using her knowledge of non duality (her version), preaching about having no free will and that if you don't do this or expect that, you won't get it.
Now I am not really denying anyones experience, but it did not resonate with me at all. Because if there is no free will, then who made the choice for her to record her 1 on 1 sessions where she earned money and post them on RUclips?
It just didn't resonate.
And then another guy who said that Brahman was the reality, the rest is an illusion.
Love the spiritual content and principles - I like Putin and Russia, so you lost me on your political rant. Politics and spirituality, a slippery slope.
He lost me too on that one. Not the first time he shares his left leaning Political views.
I like Putin and Russia too 🙂
Othervise great spiritual teachings🙏
Путин это не Россия, вы глубоко заблуждаетесь по поводу того, кого люди не никогда выбирали, кто всего навсего преемник предыдущей марионетки политического театра, нелюдей, которые веками обогащались на крови народа.
Вам просто втирали почти 20 лет иллюзию о Путине, которая вам нравиться.
Вы заметили, что с тех пор, 24 года правления Путина, демократия так и не прибыла в Россию, но тоталитаризм, пропаганда, иифляция, нестабильность и бедность России прибыла на Запад. И это реальность.
You better choose carefully what you like, and do not mix tyrants with people who they oppress and drain.
Its a pity when you start to share your political views, that is very biased
Are you sure that if my views are different from yours, then I am the one who is biased?
@@kimmichaels-po4wz I'm not claiming to be politically unbiased, but I'm also not a a spiritual teacher or leader🙂
I appreciate and respect your spiritual teachings but we just do not share political views and I do not understand your need to mix those publicly. Just my take🙏