Thanks Adam. This was great as usual. I finally realized that there are two main tables not one; cumulative wear AND wear per block. I always thought that it was cumulative so when I would see the wear per block table, it just didn't make sense. And now I know why. Anyway, very interesting stuff. Well done.
Thanks as always Adam for the fantastically thorough testing. I've been eagerly waiting to see how Rex performed. All looks very good, but to be honest not good enough for me to warrant a shift from MSW. Perhaps if the price comes down a bit it would be worth a try, but MSW is very much still way out front in terms of price to performance. Keep up the excellent work and look forward to seeing what else you have in the pipeline!
Just had a thought while out for a spin regarding the "blends". 4+1 sounds like a great dry weather / racing blend. 11+1 has better wet weather performance. Extrapolating on that - do you think going up to something like a 16+1 blend would create even better wet weather performance? Lets call it a "winter blend", or do you think there would be diminishing returns or other unwanted side effects going above the standard 11+1 ratio.
Hey Bsharp - that is a good thought indeed - hard to say really without testing a lot more blends how the trend line may go - but it is definitely feasible that 16+1 may be even better in wet - there is still a lot of additive in that mod block that even 16 or 20+1 blends will still be pretty slick. For wet weather riding there would be not detriment really to try even lesser concentration blends.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for the reply and thoughts Adam. It certainly opens up a very unique opportunity to tailor the blend to your usage case which no one else can match. Will be interesting to see if anyone else follows this method of deployment.
Thanks for the review! I noticed that Rex Black Diamond Wax (11+1) allows for better single application longevity in dry road conditions vs. (for instance) Molten Speed Wax New Formula (1100 vs 600 km). This is a huge difference in longevity. However, if I understood correctly, in order to reduce wear the suggestion is to rewax the chain at every 300km, which is far below the numbers of above. Hence my question: not looking at watt savings (if any), what is the point of using any wax that "lasts" longer than 300km? Or in this specific case, if I buy Rex Wax, will I be able to, let's say, rewax my chain at every 500km instead of 300km and still keep the wear to a minimal level?
Yes very good points / questions - i should have done better to clarify some of that. Overall i will likely always recommend to rewax early (ie around 300km ish) vs pushing treatment lifespans - even though the top waxes on the market can go a lot longer. In BD case, a lot lot longer. Firstly whilst the great wax + additives base provides impressive protection against wear - past 300km ish - the wax layer is very thin by then, and so it often will start to feel / sound dry vs silky smooth. BD 4+1 and hot wax X have shown to be really impressive in this occurring much longer - but still at some point usually well before wear starting to occur would be a worry, the wax will just be not that pleasurable to ride vs the silky smooth first few hundred kms. Also, as wax becomes very thin - over time it is easier for dust to slowly get in. Ie a freshly waxed chain has very little room / space. If one is to race powder their chain - it needs a good break in first to allow enough space for the powdering to get in. So very slowly if one rides with very thin coating for many hundreds of kms - more dust will get in over time vs if one is re waxing circa 300km - so it keeps contamination - especially for dry road riding - to just an extremely low amount, and this means extremely low amount being brought into wax in wax pot each re wax. Also - whatever amount of dust that does penetrate over time - the longer it is in there, the longer it has to be pressed through wax and abrade on chain metal. A re wax resets and recoats all parts again in a nice layer of super slippery wax, leaving the chain metal out of it. Really BD / hot wax X etc with very long protection / treatment lifespans - they will be handy for those who find that due to being busy / avid training - they are always pushing treatment lifespans on other waxes (ie if they are doing 500km a week) - or also if they often very long harsh rides / events and want to go flag to flag without worring re top up etc. if re waxing circa every 300km is generally not an issue - then ANY of the top options - msw / hot melt / BD - they are all just brilliant and you cant go wrong with any - one should choose what they like / ease of getting / landed price etc.
thanks for testing. I know you may get a lot of requests ,but i'd be interested how the stuff from cyclowax is doing compared to the rest. Its kind of a starting brand from belgium. As seemingly the absolut black wax is not what i should be looking at, not every wax is as good as others. So choosing the right one might be reasonable
yes overall im impressed with cyclowax - testing i hope to talk about soon, but overall i really like their approach - i think they should tweak somethings off the bat (ie the recommended number of rewaxes per tablet is far to low to be commercially accepted i think) - however i think the product itself will prove to be great, and their clever compact stand / swisher / pot set up will suit a lot of cyclists who would love to wax but do not due to space issues in apartments etc - AND options like MSW and hot melt in that part of europe can be hard / expensive to get - so if they can ensure they have a $$ advantage to customers in their surrounding geography - i hope they gain great traction. But like all things commercial - you dont just need a great product (in fact sadly, too often companies can have a shit product and still commercially smash it - ie M-O) - there are a lot of little things to get right completely separate to product performance re gaining traction - especially in a very, very crowded market - and one where anyone can claim anything with no repercussion. What is the cost to the customer vs competitors. what are the margins to bike stores if they are going to look to stock vs competing w/sale products they may stock etc etc. They have a good differential with their kit which is really schmick - and they have race + base tablets - great. Now how do they gain traction from that.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Very interested in a Cyclowax review too! Over the past half year I've been reading a lot about immersive waxing (Thanks ZFC, Silca and other great channels). I'm super excited about having a clean drivetrain that will stay clean and consequently doesn't wear that easy! What held me off a bit was the whole DIY style. You need to find your own pot, you need to make a suitable stand somewhere to hang your chains on, you need some sort of wire to get your chain on, etc etc. Not necessarily all that difficult but it's just a lot of hassle to get going. But then I found out about Cyclowax (great to see it's a Belgian company, as I'm Belgian too :D) who provide this all-in one kit to get you going. So I ordered the kit and should receive very soon! The good thing is, once you have the pot, stand, and you're set-up. you can still get other wax like Rex, MSW, Silca, ... in case Cyclowax' would not be performing well. So really interested in a review about their wax!
TTAW in itself is overall great but - just note that NO LUBRICANT will be fine to just ride in wet offroad, and just re apply and all is cool. Water brings so much abrasive crap deep into chain, and it will be pressed into any lubricant and become part of the lubricant. Unless you flush it out, then it will be there - so post wet ride your next ride in the sun - you may as well still be riding in the wet re abrasion and wear inside chain. TTAW is great to use with immersive waxing as is compatible - but its lifespan overall like ss drip and ufo drip - it is very limited in harsh conditions - so take care that it will last through harsh wet rides ok, and whats the plan post ride. (i have a thorough chain maintenance guide - instructions tab - to cover all scenario's). If it is too short lasting, then smoove is very long lasting in all conditions - but has other fun things like penetration issues and it can be TOUGH clean to reset . Point one is to just know that an extremely hard working part, completely exposed to such contamination - it is an extremely lubrication challenge. Imagine your bearings open to all the mud and how they would go, or throw a bunch of mud and water into your cars engine etc. So the best lubricant for such riding is a) one that lasts long enough to survive the ride and b) the one that is easiest to reset contamination post ride.
How can the AB wax perform so poorly? I'm really interested in the candlewax test, since the general agreement used to be that any wax is better than a wet lube (from an efficiency and wear point of view). But if the AB is that bad, is it possible that the additives are actually quite important, and candlewax is not that great? Thanks in advance for the candlewax test!
I think its two parts - 1) I personally do not believe they have anything more than about a molecule of graphene in the wax. Graphene lube is $200+ for 140ml. Graphenwax is $45 for 320grams. Look at the cost of hot wax X and high concentration Rex BD. I think it is black colouring and the most token amount of additive to be able to claim graphene in the marketing. 2) I think their base wax is terrible. By going for the "pliable" approach - it is just gunky crap like the worst candle wax's. It is the opposite of everything immersive waxing should be - with the top waxes it is clean and super low wear / friction. Graphenwax is dirty to handle with their black colouring, it is gunky, and it is very high wear. Its crap, whilst graphenlube is a brilliant performer - just expensive and hard to prep for most due to immersive application.
Hey Adam - a question, or perhaps a suggestion for a video: As a user of the original MSW, what are the top 5 (or 10) recommendations to upgrade? It would be interesting to (me) see your take!
Hey adam - thats a tough one really to say "upgrade" - as new formula Msw is still right at the top. Hot melt did better in extreme conditions block - but if thats not your riding all the time - they are basically neck and neck. BD wax is brilliant re treatment longevity in dry - but again, it will still feel & sound dry past a certain point - do you need to ride 800km a treatment or can you re wax as per normal just fine? hot wax X is very expensive and pain to break in, some concerns re performance drop in wet etc etc. Some have certain advantages in certain cases - but overall - msw new formula is still just right at the top - i cant list upgrades overall vs the venerable msw.
Thank you Adam for another informative vid you rock buddy!!! I'm starting to think silca is waiting for your wax x testing results before they finally release an instructional video for the wax x?I think they have already put out like 3 vids on the new chain striper and still no wax x vid lol...Cheers!!! ps glad to see your feeling better being sick sucks!!!
Thanks Glenn! and ah man i sounding better but still been recovering - had something good. Did a couple light rights during week and it gave me an insight into what riding in my 90's might feel like hahahaha. Life force was low.... And i think that X is currently undergoing some tweaks. I have had a chat with Josh and they have made a tweak for the WT pro teams they supply for race chains with X to ease the long hard break in, and things are being looked into re wet conditions. I will be trying the tweak to make easier to break in post doing the S.A.L testing with original blend. I dont think the volume is there or planned to be there just yet - but who knows - as i type this for all i know a vid might be being rolled out on X! But my guess is that a vid at the moment might be clunky as they talk around the break in time and wet weather - i think they will wait until those two aspects are improved and then vid to be able to talk more smoothly about an ultimate wax.... we shall see, and i will be no doubt trying to find a spot to test a tweaked formula sometime in the near ish future.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for your reply that explains everything about the wax x delay,I won't be buying more untill they get it sorted...Welcome to my world 63 yrs old with copd running on 34%of my lungs,thats why i ride the emtb's and can now get back into the bush for miles!!!
@@glennmorgan8691 ah man, well done you for going E to still be able to get out and enjoy. If something happened to me and i couldnt ride how i wanted under my own steam anymore - well, e-bike options are getting ever more exciting - it is great to see how so many more people can enjoy getting out there these days, so great to hear that is you as well
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for your kind words buddy!!!Yes e-bikes are great for the old and handicapped but also regular folks too you can just go that much farther and see places that you would never see on an analog bike...Unfortunately the high price of e-bikes keeps them out of reach for alot of pensioners and handicapped folks,its time our governments came out with some meaningful grants or programs to help put e-bikes in the hands of people that could really benefit from them!!!(my rant for the day lol)Cheers!!!
@zerofrictioncycling992 Adam just a quick question about the block 4 test "Wet Contamination". I that block just a single application of wax ridden in wet conditions without additional application of either immersive or drip wax? Particularly interested in this test as it is very applicable to Ireland and our weather conditions.
No in the clean blocks - the chain is lubricated to start the block, followed by two further re lubrications at basically around the 10hr mark (varies a bit depending on what gear run - it is a 400km interval large chain ring, 200km interval small ring, 400km large chain ring). For the contamination blocks, the number of re lubrications is doubled, as it is normal for people to re lubricate more frequently when riding in harsh conditions. So there is re lubrication basically every approx 5 hours, with the contamination introduced after 2.5hrs. So start freshly lubricated - run for 2.5hrs, contamination added, run for a further 2.5hrs, re lubricated, moved to next gear repeat etc.
@15:05 - I do want to know what the worst 5 lubricants are. I am sure you've listed them somewhere, but you have an extensive database, & not sure where to look exactly.
ah yep on the zero friction cycling website - then click on lubricant testing (main menu item). but basically the worst 5 tested to date are finish line ceramic wax, muc-off Nano, muc off hydrodynamic, Prestacycle One, Muc-off ludicrous AF.
Another really informative video Adam, and loving the detail. Thank you. I’ve now tried Rex wax on the back of this review 4+1. Any sense of why I get a ‘fizzing’ around the chain when immersed (unlike when I use Silca hot melt in same conditions - chain prep, same instapot temperature)? It only occurs when the chain is in the pot - stops when it’s removed. Many thanks Rob
@@zerofrictioncycling992 magic - many thanks. *Update* I wonder whether it is either the effects of a switch from Silca to Rex wax and the hot water flush didn’t get rid of all the old Silca wax before dipping into the Rex. Alternatively could be that the chains were not completely dry before immersing (2-mins with hairdryer). Tried again yesterday this time much longer drying before immersing and no fizzing issues. Could be the Silca has all melted off now or that the chain was completely dry. Next rewax I’ll try 2min drying time again and see if the fizzing returns.
Another perfect breakfast video for me to watch! So I have a bunch of MSW original formula. I had it on my wish list and got it as gifts over the years. Is there a way I can "boost" it to the new formula so I don't feel like I'm not getting the best results? Your graphs and data have ruined me!
Ha no you dont have to worry - the new formula switches from pTFE and moly to WS2, and it is an improved base. You cant really change the old to the new. But it was numero uno in cycling world for like 10 years+, so whilst new formula stuff tests a bit better - it is still brilliant of course. Just like if you have a great bike today, it will still be a great bike tomorrow when a new model is released. My 11spd di2 bikes are just as lovely to ride today as they were when i got them, i dont need to put 12spd on them to keep up etc. If you are worried about every fraction of a watt for racing, have dedicated race chain and race pot on new formula, and keep enjoying original for training.
Great videos, I'm new in this world and I'm amazed at how much knowledge i gain with each one of them, you'd be a great professor. I got 2 Qs: how to know what kind of pot is best suitable for waxing? As I've heard that too quick heating could damage the wax but i don't want to keep a slow cooker on for ages and in Spanish I'm not sure what terms i should be looking for 😂 And 2: if i ride for around 8 months in dry conditions and the rest of the year in mixed conditions (no rain but some parts of the roads dry and others wet, but no puddles), what's the best solution? Waxed chain 8 months and wet lube the rest or waxed all the time and simply rewax more frequently during the wet months? Thank you very much.
Thanks Cuencas - very glad you are enjoying. If a slow cooker is too slow then what is known as an "instant pot" where you can set to slow cook or manual and set 90dg c - they usually melt in about 10 mins which is fine. You want to avoid too much quicker than that (ie rice cooker that blasts heat in initially). And now for winter - if you cannot re wax post wet ride to protect / re set chain - the just add a quick coating of either s ilca ss drip, ufo drip or tru tension tungsten all weather post wet ride and keep doing this until next re wax. There is still no easier way to reset contamination that wet riding brings in than just doing a re wax, and a quick top up in between with the immersive wax compatible lubricants is super easy. Check the chain maintenance guide - instructions tab - for deeper detail if wish.
The graphs are of great and allow to understand how one particular product fairs against a select number of other products. One suggestions would be, if possible, to render them. The readability of the legend is not the greatest in a small replay window, barely better in full screen. Thanks again for all the awesome content you put out, it really changed how I approach component wear and component maintenance.
Thanks man, i will have to google rendering them (again, apologies for my skillset in this area - i am practically social media / computer skill illiterate these days. I can type fast though........). I thought rendering was something one did in the kitchen, but will see what it might do for graphs on you tube! :)
Now that the additive block is being sold separately are you planning on testing a 11+2 mix? That would be, according to Rex, an extremely long-lasting and economical mix. Kinda the sweet spot between 4+1 and 11+1 but would be nice to see how it actually compares.
at this stage that test is very unlikely - rex were considering booking a 7+1 test but a) every test is a lot of time and $$ and b) they are hard at work developing and testing a new wax drip so a lot of testing for them has been focused on that now. It would be nice to get an exact number but we kinda know that it will be somewhere in between 11+1 and 4+1, and it is going to be an overall excellent blend - so just going off that is the main thrust vs doing another test just for that blend. Testing overall is REALLY booked so each test is a little bit precious re information value at the moment.
against the chains 0.5% wear allowance. So 19.1% is the lubricant / chain used 19.1% of the 0.5% wear allowance during that block. 0.5% is chains recommended replacement mark, so the tests are typically run till they exceed that wear mark.
I wonder if the thing with Rex 4+1 is related to additives being actually hydrophilic. WS2 content may affect the longevity, even though it is a great(ish) lubricant. It does not work too well in ski wax due to moist (there seems to be some in snow🙄).
I cant say what their additive is, but i can say this is not the cause of the issue in this case. And its an issue seen with high concentration modifier blends across a spectrum of additives and wax bases, its been a bit of surprise to many.
Might be a crazy idea, but I wonder what would happen if you'd mix e.g. Silca hot melt with Rex 4+1 mix. Also curious how the new UFO drip wet conditions would compare to other wax drips in blocks 4 and 6. Great review and incredible data on the website. Great stuff, thanks for putting it out there!
Great video and info as always! How does it feel to be a leader of a religion😂? What product does rex recommend to touch up with? Could I mix and match, use silca SS maybe?
Ha! Ah we have a key difference vs religion - you dont have to have faith or belief as one can objectively experience and see it! Yeehaa :) . And yes ss drip, or ufo drip, or tru tension tungsten all weather - of those 3, and i am guessing here as they havent confirmed, but i belief UFO drip is most likely to have the most similar modifier - so i would personally use UFO drip with BD wax as top option.
Hello, I use the rex black diamond lube (not the wax), I've been on a ride which has dirtied my bike, if I rinse it well with water only should I reapply the rex black diamond please? Or do I have to start the whole cleaning process again?
hey there - no once you are on immersive waxing life is overall a whole lot easier. If you have done a muddy ride, rinse with boiling water, DRY (important) and re wax. this video will help i think; ruclips.net/video/kVzhm-yTojk/видео.html
i dont know what that means - i even googled that word and couldnt find it! only monochord in a musical sense, but i wasnt singing or playing any beats!
Thanks Adam. This was great as usual. I finally realized that there are two main tables not one; cumulative wear AND wear per block. I always thought that it was cumulative so when I would see the wear per block table, it just didn't make sense. And now I know why. Anyway, very interesting stuff. Well done.
Thanks as always Adam for the fantastically thorough testing. I've been eagerly waiting to see how Rex performed. All looks very good, but to be honest not good enough for me to warrant a shift from MSW. Perhaps if the price comes down a bit it would be worth a try, but MSW is very much still way out front in terms of price to performance. Keep up the excellent work and look forward to seeing what else you have in the pipeline!
Just had a thought while out for a spin regarding the "blends". 4+1 sounds like a great dry weather / racing blend. 11+1 has better wet weather performance. Extrapolating on that - do you think going up to something like a 16+1 blend would create even better wet weather performance? Lets call it a "winter blend", or do you think there would be diminishing returns or other unwanted side effects going above the standard 11+1 ratio.
Hey Bsharp - that is a good thought indeed - hard to say really without testing a lot more blends how the trend line may go - but it is definitely feasible that 16+1 may be even better in wet - there is still a lot of additive in that mod block that even 16 or 20+1 blends will still be pretty slick. For wet weather riding there would be not detriment really to try even lesser concentration blends.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for the reply and thoughts Adam. It certainly opens up a very unique opportunity to tailor the blend to your usage case which no one else can match. Will be interesting to see if anyone else follows this method of deployment.
Thanks for the review!
I noticed that Rex Black Diamond Wax (11+1) allows for better single application longevity in dry road conditions vs. (for instance) Molten Speed Wax New Formula (1100 vs 600 km). This is a huge difference in longevity.
However, if I understood correctly, in order to reduce wear the suggestion is to rewax the chain at every 300km, which is far below the numbers of above.
Hence my question: not looking at watt savings (if any), what is the point of using any wax that "lasts" longer than 300km? Or in this specific case, if I buy Rex Wax, will I be able to, let's say, rewax my chain at every 500km instead of 300km and still keep the wear to a minimal level?
Yes very good points / questions - i should have done better to clarify some of that. Overall i will likely always recommend to rewax early (ie around 300km ish) vs pushing treatment lifespans - even though the top waxes on the market can go a lot longer. In BD case, a lot lot longer.
Firstly whilst the great wax + additives base provides impressive protection against wear - past 300km ish - the wax layer is very thin by then, and so it often will start to feel / sound dry vs silky smooth. BD 4+1 and hot wax X have shown to be really impressive in this occurring much longer - but still at some point usually well before wear starting to occur would be a worry, the wax will just be not that pleasurable to ride vs the silky smooth first few hundred kms.
Also, as wax becomes very thin - over time it is easier for dust to slowly get in. Ie a freshly waxed chain has very little room / space. If one is to race powder their chain - it needs a good break in first to allow enough space for the powdering to get in. So very slowly if one rides with very thin coating for many hundreds of kms - more dust will get in over time vs if one is re waxing circa 300km - so it keeps contamination - especially for dry road riding - to just an extremely low amount, and this means extremely low amount being brought into wax in wax pot each re wax.
Also - whatever amount of dust that does penetrate over time - the longer it is in there, the longer it has to be pressed through wax and abrade on chain metal. A re wax resets and recoats all parts again in a nice layer of super slippery wax, leaving the chain metal out of it.
Really BD / hot wax X etc with very long protection / treatment lifespans - they will be handy for those who find that due to being busy / avid training - they are always pushing treatment lifespans on other waxes (ie if they are doing 500km a week) - or also if they often very long harsh rides / events and want to go flag to flag without worring re top up etc.
if re waxing circa every 300km is generally not an issue - then ANY of the top options - msw / hot melt / BD - they are all just brilliant and you cant go wrong with any - one should choose what they like / ease of getting / landed price etc.
The graphs are such a great visual aid for understanding where each lube stands at a glance, thank you!
thanks for testing. I know you may get a lot of requests ,but i'd be interested how the stuff from cyclowax is doing compared to the rest. Its kind of a starting brand from belgium. As seemingly the absolut black wax is not what i should be looking at, not every wax is as good as others. So choosing the right one might be reasonable
yes overall im impressed with cyclowax - testing i hope to talk about soon, but overall i really like their approach - i think they should tweak somethings off the bat (ie the recommended number of rewaxes per tablet is far to low to be commercially accepted i think) - however i think the product itself will prove to be great, and their clever compact stand / swisher / pot set up will suit a lot of cyclists who would love to wax but do not due to space issues in apartments etc - AND options like MSW and hot melt in that part of europe can be hard / expensive to get - so if they can ensure they have a $$ advantage to customers in their surrounding geography - i hope they gain great traction. But like all things commercial - you dont just need a great product (in fact sadly, too often companies can have a shit product and still commercially smash it - ie M-O) - there are a lot of little things to get right completely separate to product performance re gaining traction - especially in a very, very crowded market - and one where anyone can claim anything with no repercussion.
What is the cost to the customer vs competitors. what are the margins to bike stores if they are going to look to stock vs competing w/sale products they may stock etc etc. They have a good differential with their kit which is really schmick - and they have race + base tablets - great. Now how do they gain traction from that.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 wow, thank you for taking your time for this extended answer to help us,the riders. Much appreciated!!
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Very interested in a Cyclowax review too!
Over the past half year I've been reading a lot about immersive waxing (Thanks ZFC, Silca and other great channels).
I'm super excited about having a clean drivetrain that will stay clean and consequently doesn't wear that easy!
What held me off a bit was the whole DIY style. You need to find your own pot, you need to make a suitable stand somewhere to hang your chains on, you need some sort of wire to get your chain on, etc etc.
Not necessarily all that difficult but it's just a lot of hassle to get going.
But then I found out about Cyclowax (great to see it's a Belgian company, as I'm Belgian too :D) who provide this all-in one kit to get you going.
So I ordered the kit and should receive very soon!
The good thing is, once you have the pot, stand, and you're set-up. you can still get other wax like Rex, MSW, Silca, ... in case Cyclowax' would not be performing well.
So really interested in a review about their wax!
Which of these wax have very less contamination and saves watts and have good longevity in mix condition 🙂🙂
im a mountainbiker and in our country its always muddy singletrack. am gonna try tungsten all weather and see if it works.
TTAW in itself is overall great but - just note that NO LUBRICANT will be fine to just ride in wet offroad, and just re apply and all is cool. Water brings so much abrasive crap deep into chain, and it will be pressed into any lubricant and become part of the lubricant. Unless you flush it out, then it will be there - so post wet ride your next ride in the sun - you may as well still be riding in the wet re abrasion and wear inside chain.
TTAW is great to use with immersive waxing as is compatible - but its lifespan overall like ss drip and ufo drip - it is very limited in harsh conditions - so take care that it will last through harsh wet rides ok, and whats the plan post ride. (i have a thorough chain maintenance guide - instructions tab - to cover all scenario's).
If it is too short lasting, then smoove is very long lasting in all conditions - but has other fun things like penetration issues and it can be TOUGH clean to reset .
Point one is to just know that an extremely hard working part, completely exposed to such contamination - it is an extremely lubrication challenge. Imagine your bearings open to all the mud and how they would go, or throw a bunch of mud and water into your cars engine etc. So the best lubricant for such riding is a) one that lasts long enough to survive the ride and b) the one that is easiest to reset contamination post ride.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 duly noted. thank you.
How can the AB wax perform so poorly? I'm really interested in the candlewax test, since the general agreement used to be that any wax is better than a wet lube (from an efficiency and wear point of view). But if the AB is that bad, is it possible that the additives are actually quite important, and candlewax is not that great?
Thanks in advance for the candlewax test!
I think the problem with candlewax is the consistency. Maybe different brands have a different composition of waxes used in the candle.
I think its two parts - 1) I personally do not believe they have anything more than about a molecule of graphene in the wax. Graphene lube is $200+ for 140ml. Graphenwax is $45 for 320grams. Look at the cost of hot wax X and high concentration Rex BD. I think it is black colouring and the most token amount of additive to be able to claim graphene in the marketing. 2) I think their base wax is terrible. By going for the "pliable" approach - it is just gunky crap like the worst candle wax's. It is the opposite of everything immersive waxing should be - with the top waxes it is clean and super low wear / friction. Graphenwax is dirty to handle with their black colouring, it is gunky, and it is very high wear. Its crap, whilst graphenlube is a brilliant performer - just expensive and hard to prep for most due to immersive application.
Hey Adam - a question, or perhaps a suggestion for a video: As a user of the original MSW, what are the top 5 (or 10) recommendations to upgrade? It would be interesting to (me) see your take!
Hey adam - thats a tough one really to say "upgrade" - as new formula Msw is still right at the top. Hot melt did better in extreme conditions block - but if thats not your riding all the time - they are basically neck and neck. BD wax is brilliant re treatment longevity in dry - but again, it will still feel & sound dry past a certain point - do you need to ride 800km a treatment or can you re wax as per normal just fine? hot wax X is very expensive and pain to break in, some concerns re performance drop in wet etc etc. Some have certain advantages in certain cases - but overall - msw new formula is still just right at the top - i cant list upgrades overall vs the venerable msw.
Thank you Adam for another informative vid you rock buddy!!! I'm starting to think silca is waiting for your wax x testing results before they finally release an instructional video for the wax x?I think they have already put out like 3 vids on the new chain striper and still no wax x vid lol...Cheers!!! ps glad to see your feeling better being sick sucks!!!
Thanks Glenn! and ah man i sounding better but still been recovering - had something good. Did a couple light rights during week and it gave me an insight into what riding in my 90's might feel like hahahaha. Life force was low....
And i think that X is currently undergoing some tweaks. I have had a chat with Josh and they have made a tweak for the WT pro teams they supply for race chains with X to ease the long hard break in, and things are being looked into re wet conditions. I will be trying the tweak to make easier to break in post doing the S.A.L testing with original blend. I dont think the volume is there or planned to be there just yet - but who knows - as i type this for all i know a vid might be being rolled out on X!
But my guess is that a vid at the moment might be clunky as they talk around the break in time and wet weather - i think they will wait until those two aspects are improved and then vid to be able to talk more smoothly about an ultimate wax.... we shall see, and i will be no doubt trying to find a spot to test a tweaked formula sometime in the near ish future.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for your reply that explains everything about the wax x delay,I won't be buying more untill they get it sorted...Welcome to my world 63 yrs old with copd running on 34%of my lungs,thats why i ride the emtb's and can now get back into the bush for miles!!!
@@glennmorgan8691 ah man, well done you for going E to still be able to get out and enjoy. If something happened to me and i couldnt ride how i wanted under my own steam anymore - well, e-bike options are getting ever more exciting - it is great to see how so many more people can enjoy getting out there these days, so great to hear that is you as well
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for your kind words buddy!!!Yes e-bikes are great for the old and handicapped but also regular folks too you can just go that much farther and see places that you would never see on an analog bike...Unfortunately the high price of e-bikes keeps them out of reach for alot of pensioners and handicapped folks,its time our governments came out with some meaningful grants or programs to help put e-bikes in the hands of people that could really benefit from them!!!(my rant for the day lol)Cheers!!!
Thanks Adam! We now have plenty of Black Diamond additives blocks in stock! - Antti / Rex-
ah most excellent - will email soon to check retail pricing to update cost to run for 4+1, and will order up next order, or possibly earlier... :)
@zerofrictioncycling992 Adam just a quick question about the block 4 test "Wet Contamination". I that block just a single application of wax ridden in wet conditions without additional application of either immersive or drip wax?
Particularly interested in this test as it is very applicable to Ireland and our weather conditions.
No in the clean blocks - the chain is lubricated to start the block, followed by two further re lubrications at basically around the 10hr mark (varies a bit depending on what gear run - it is a 400km interval large chain ring, 200km interval small ring, 400km large chain ring). For the contamination blocks, the number of re lubrications is doubled, as it is normal for people to re lubricate more frequently when riding in harsh conditions. So there is re lubrication basically every approx 5 hours, with the contamination introduced after 2.5hrs. So start freshly lubricated - run for 2.5hrs, contamination added, run for a further 2.5hrs, re lubricated, moved to next gear repeat etc.
Full test brief - link to that is on lubrication test data page - tis a bit of read tho! (its me...)
@15:05 - I do want to know what the worst 5 lubricants are. I am sure you've listed them somewhere, but you have an extensive database, & not sure where to look exactly.
ah yep on the zero friction cycling website - then click on lubricant testing (main menu item). but basically the worst 5 tested to date are finish line ceramic wax, muc-off Nano, muc off hydrodynamic, Prestacycle One, Muc-off ludicrous AF.
Another really informative video Adam, and loving the detail. Thank you. I’ve now tried Rex wax on the back of this review 4+1. Any sense of why I get a ‘fizzing’ around the chain when immersed (unlike when I use Silca hot melt in same conditions - chain prep, same instapot temperature)? It only occurs when the chain is in the pot - stops when it’s removed. Many thanks Rob
Thanks Rob! But ah sorry no - that one is a good question that hasnt yet come up. I will send that to REX see if they have any input
@@zerofrictioncycling992 magic - many thanks. *Update* I wonder whether it is either the effects of a switch from Silca to Rex wax and the hot water flush didn’t get rid of all the old Silca wax before dipping into the Rex. Alternatively could be that the chains were not completely dry before immersing (2-mins with hairdryer). Tried again yesterday this time much longer drying before immersing and no fizzing issues. Could be the Silca has all melted off now or that the chain was completely dry. Next rewax I’ll try 2min drying time again and see if the fizzing returns.
Another perfect breakfast video for me to watch! So I have a bunch of MSW original formula. I had it on my wish list and got it as gifts over the years. Is there a way I can "boost" it to the new formula so I don't feel like I'm not getting the best results? Your graphs and data have ruined me!
There is. Toss them and buy the new one. That’s this sport essentially; buying nee stuff and bikes every 2-3 years.
Ha no you dont have to worry - the new formula switches from pTFE and moly to WS2, and it is an improved base. You cant really change the old to the new. But it was numero uno in cycling world for like 10 years+, so whilst new formula stuff tests a bit better - it is still brilliant of course. Just like if you have a great bike today, it will still be a great bike tomorrow when a new model is released. My 11spd di2 bikes are just as lovely to ride today as they were when i got them, i dont need to put 12spd on them to keep up etc.
If you are worried about every fraction of a watt for racing, have dedicated race chain and race pot on new formula, and keep enjoying original for training.
Great videos, I'm new in this world and I'm amazed at how much knowledge i gain with each one of them, you'd be a great professor.
I got 2 Qs: how to know what kind of pot is best suitable for waxing? As I've heard that too quick heating could damage the wax but i don't want to keep a slow cooker on for ages and in Spanish I'm not sure what terms i should be looking for 😂
And 2: if i ride for around 8 months in dry conditions and the rest of the year in mixed conditions (no rain but some parts of the roads dry and others wet, but no puddles), what's the best solution? Waxed chain 8 months and wet lube the rest or waxed all the time and simply rewax more frequently during the wet months?
Thank you very much.
Thanks Cuencas - very glad you are enjoying. If a slow cooker is too slow then what is known as an "instant pot" where you can set to slow cook or manual and set 90dg c - they usually melt in about 10 mins which is fine. You want to avoid too much quicker than that (ie rice cooker that blasts heat in initially).
And now for winter - if you cannot re wax post wet ride to protect / re set chain - the just add a quick coating of either s ilca ss drip, ufo drip or tru tension tungsten all weather post wet ride and keep doing this until next re wax. There is still no easier way to reset contamination that wet riding brings in than just doing a re wax, and a quick top up in between with the immersive wax compatible lubricants is super easy. Check the chain maintenance guide - instructions tab - for deeper detail if wish.
The graphs are of great and allow to understand how one particular product fairs against a select number of other products. One suggestions would be, if possible, to render them. The readability of the legend is not the greatest in a small replay window, barely better in full screen.
Thanks again for all the awesome content you put out, it really changed how I approach component wear and component maintenance.
Thanks man, i will have to google rendering them (again, apologies for my skillset in this area - i am practically social media / computer skill illiterate these days. I can type fast though........). I thought rendering was something one did in the kitchen, but will see what it might do for graphs on you tube! :)
Now that the additive block is being sold separately are you planning on testing a 11+2 mix? That would be, according to Rex, an extremely long-lasting and economical mix. Kinda the sweet spot between 4+1 and 11+1 but would be nice to see how it actually compares.
at this stage that test is very unlikely - rex were considering booking a 7+1 test but a) every test is a lot of time and $$ and b) they are hard at work developing and testing a new wax drip so a lot of testing for them has been focused on that now. It would be nice to get an exact number but we kinda know that it will be somewhere in between 11+1 and 4+1, and it is going to be an overall excellent blend - so just going off that is the main thrust vs doing another test just for that blend. Testing overall is REALLY booked so each test is a little bit precious re information value at the moment.
What do the percentages mean, what are they comparing against?
Ie, what does something like "19.1% wear" mean?
against the chains 0.5% wear allowance. So 19.1% is the lubricant / chain used 19.1% of the 0.5% wear allowance during that block. 0.5% is chains recommended replacement mark, so the tests are typically run till they exceed that wear mark.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Seems clear, thanks for the response!
I wonder if the thing with Rex 4+1 is related to additives being actually hydrophilic. WS2 content may affect the longevity, even though it is a great(ish) lubricant. It does not work too well in ski wax due to moist (there seems to be some in snow🙄).
I cant say what their additive is, but i can say this is not the cause of the issue in this case. And its an issue seen with high concentration modifier blends across a spectrum of additives and wax bases, its been a bit of surprise to many.
4:24 Good I did not jump on the hype wagon. The Absolute Black was super expensive.
Might be a crazy idea, but I wonder what would happen if you'd mix e.g. Silca hot melt with Rex 4+1 mix.
Also curious how the new UFO drip wet conditions would compare to other wax drips in blocks 4 and 6.
Great review and incredible data on the website. Great stuff, thanks for putting it out there!
Graphs were great to visualize the difference.
Great work!
Great video and info as always! How does it feel to be a leader of a religion😂? What product does rex recommend to touch up with? Could I mix and match, use silca SS maybe?
Ha! Ah we have a key difference vs religion - you dont have to have faith or belief as one can objectively experience and see it! Yeehaa :) . And yes ss drip, or ufo drip, or tru tension tungsten all weather - of those 3, and i am guessing here as they havent confirmed, but i belief UFO drip is most likely to have the most similar modifier - so i would personally use UFO drip with BD wax as top option.
Like the graphs!
Hello,
I use the rex black diamond lube (not the wax), I've been on a ride which has dirtied my bike, if I rinse it well with water only should I reapply the rex black diamond please? Or do I have to start the whole cleaning process again?
hey there - no once you are on immersive waxing life is overall a whole lot easier. If you have done a muddy ride, rinse with boiling water, DRY (important) and re wax.
this video will help i think;
ruclips.net/video/kVzhm-yTojk/видео.html
Way tooo much monotonous !!!
34:09
i dont know what that means - i even googled that word and couldnt find it! only monochord in a musical sense, but i wasnt singing or playing any beats!
💘 Promo_SM