Why does this McLaren 720S engine rattle?
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- We diagnose a rattling noise on a McLaren 720S engine and start to tear into the cause.
Hope you enjoy it!
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Said to myself this year I need John Mcguiness to stop racing the TT it stresses me out him riding again after all these years of getting away with it 😂. I’d hate to see something happen to him after all this time. He is not podium position anymore he is a Legend and can retire with his head held high. No idea how his misses still let’s him risk it.
Got to love the detail you go into Ricky!
I get that it’s a track day experience at but surely regular oil changes is still easy enough to do. Really does my head in the the likes of Audi and BMW offer extended oil change intervals on RS or performance cars, BMW not so M cars but M lites etc. My old 8V RS3 was on LL service schedule when I got it. It had just turned 20k miles and had its first service a few thousand miles prior. I changed it to fixed servicing and changed the oil and filter every 5-6k miles for the sake of £100 ish for consumables it’s a no brainer. I get the manufactures offer the LL serving to make the running costs seem more attractive. What we have the remember though is these are the same manufactures who say gearbox’s, diffs, transfer boxes etc are sealed for life (manufacturer speak for as long as the warranty lasts) but most owners will take this as forever. It crazy how car manufacturers seem to know more the ZF or Getrag lol.
People seem to think it reduces the cost of running the car.....but of course they're very wrong in the long-run.
My daily is a 140i, intervals are 18000 miles! But I change the oil between these servicing's myself.
@@and79 that’s what I’ve done with my M2. Not long changed the oil and filter on it at 9k miles. I’ll get the 18k mile service at BMW to keep the BMW service history up. Was going to get them to service it but it would just mess up the history in the iDrive.
Your VVT mechanism explanation was excellent, and then following that with the most intuitive oil explanation was superb! Excellent video, thank you :)
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
you are a great tutor, any apprentices under you should forget the lottery they are winners already.
Thank you! 🙌🏼
Great talk of the TT at the beginning and great explanation of the engine problems.
Interesting video as usual tt has been special with some of the best racing ever but unfortunately also some very sad incidents followed some who are hurt,get well soon & others that left too soon rip. Still love tt but it requires respect it bites hard. Hope no one you know personally condolences to the family and friends of all
I agree change your oil frequency especially if you are racing or track daying your vehicle. Oil is cheaper than a new set of cams etc.
Wow, watching this at 3am, as can't sleep due ti man flu :( This is brilliant guys, i love the tech stuff, and esp on V's Thanks, helped me feel a ickle bit better, lol.
what you could do.. to make the shimming less of a pain in the arse, is machine a bar in the same dimensions as the cam, but without the lobes... now you can just push the 'cam-bar' down in place, and measure all the clearances without turning the engine over, timing the motor and all. of course this only works if you are going to use the same cam spec for the job and the dimensions are the same, but in your case with reparing a lot of these same engines it might be worth it to make them. Great vid again! Keep up the good work! Cheers
Enjoyed the video - you certainly know your stuff. Sadly way beyond most of us (inc myself lol). Will like & subscribe
Beautifully explained thank u. Learnt more about vvt in 1st part of video than other vids. 🖒👊✌
What happened if that pin in the cam phaser does not lock?
What will happen to the piston and valves? Does it hit the piston and bend the valves?
What will happen? Is the engine stop?
Just watching this after seeing the news that 2 more sidecar competitors have died at the TT, brings the total to 5 deaths, very sad week.
Yes, 3 in sidecars and 2 solos. Not a good week for our sport!
My boss stumbled on your 2.5TFSI video and shared it, since then I've been addicted to them!
Great to hear you are a bike racer as well! If you do decide to head out again please take it easy, too much talent to waste especially with you having 3 nippers!
Glad you enjoyed it!!
Great explanation. Twilight of the internal combustion gods. Sadness and shameful to see such a weakness in the engine design.
Its oil abuse, always the same story. Keep it clean and you are good. Im running an early 12c. 27k miles zero cam phaser wear.
Agreed! Clean oil is key!
@@REPerformanceUK OEM fill is Mobil1 0W-40 - would you recommend stick with it or go to a 5W-50? Thanks!
The beauty of mechanical engineering.
I went on an experience day & drove a 570s it was a complete bag of spanner’s rattling from everywhere..bit’s broken inside as well..
99% of experience cars are nails man 💩
I'm looking at these 720's n really appreciating their engineering, I got to express my disgust from the body panel gaps and other interior quality as well.. the engine however I heard is magnificent and doesn't break easily at all. now when I saw this vid i was just wondering why not use higher abrasion resisting materials were used for the cams for example? can we not use titanium alloys here for example? lighter and can make the edges more resistant? and if not, as a repair are you able to coat these scratched and itched surfaces with some superalloy that can make them way more reliable and resistant to harsh conditions under high pressure, temps and speeds? as for the pin that you spoke about in the beginning of the vid, same thing applies, aren't there any aftermarket replacements where titanium or harder,stiffer materials that are used to get rid of this issue once and for all? Will keep researching about these engines and their flaws!! thanks!
Some of the engines have DLC coating but this problem is down to poor maintenance and not really poor materials, all engines will display wear like this when the oil is as degraded as it is.
@@REPerformanceUK DLC would help protect the cylinder inner surface from being scratched or etched, however I'm referring to the differences in thermal expantions happening between the inner face and outer walls of the cylinder, with the DLC you'd still get higher heat on the inside which means sudden expansion opposing the cold outer walls.. that repeated difference in expansion between the atoms n bonds is what created the tiny mico cracks.... its not going to damage the engine anytime soon however if you start the engine and drive immediately and cause quicker heating on the inner side then yes it would make the engine life shorter...
You could pour a handful of gravel in to each cylinder and a macca would still be more reliable than a gen 4 beamer though 😆
And just as bad to work on.....you couldn't give me a Bimmer on a silver platter with a 150k bumper to bumper warranty.
Guy seems like a good guy
Yeah he is mint! Raced him too….he is very crazy on a bike!
Ha, done my apprentiship on fiats, one of the first jobs to learn, shimming tappets. They never phase me, never have.
Hello brother.
Do you know the torque of the heads of a McLaren 570 3.8?
Great video
It’s obvious that the McLaren 720 S pistons stock are very weak They fly off the car if the car is tuned do not tune a McLaren without an engine built and oil consumption on it will be crazy
Engine oil is the life blood of the engine and cheap compared to an engine rebuild such a shame !!!!!
Does the M840T suffer from the same issues the M838T does?
Love the tech videos
With damage to the cams is there not likely going to be damage to the crankshaft bearings as well would it not be best to inspect them while engine is out ?
No, the cam bearings are immaculate. The lobes are splash fed so makes the quality all the more important in protecting them.
yeah i did that, im a bit late i looked up davey todd, im now staring at the most fascinatingly scary tyre wreckage ive ever seen, the shell of the trye has left the rest and gone all hard, my god the thing cured on track , polymerised to the chemical status of 20 year old bmw engine oplastics , go round the wheel then exploded, nay shattered,
someone fucked up or some software modelling really was pushing it, blimey thank god the riders are ok....the whole shell just left the banding.
its a hell of a proof of concept how it failedspectacularly as to the design of them.... the carcass stayed together.amazingly well, modern tyres are like some sort of wizadry,
My head spinning, Didnt understand shit but im glad you know what you're talking about... LOL
That all sounds rather expensive! Much more expensive than an oil change.
Just change your oil. So true
Water pumps in the sump. Is this a regular thing ? I believe some engines do have this set up, but the thought of water in the oil from failed pumps would trash an engine pretty quick. Showing my age, but Ford did this with the Lotus Twin Cam and then a tuning company re- engineered to change it, I believe as was a major failure point. Are you getting original Macca parts to refit this out ? My car has mileage based oil changes etc, but being it does such low mileage, I just oil and filter before winter layup as peace of mind. Having track cars in the past and was always a no brainer to fresh oil after every event. Its small change to what it could be, as seen with this engine.
Do you endorse using a high quality flushing fluid prior to changing the Oil? Nowadays caution has to be used more & more, especially with some dry sump engines?
No, don’t use an engine flush. If you have to just to a short use oil change. The most important thing is getting the oil up to full temp before you drop it.
@@REPerformanceUK appreciate your quick your reply. You've confirmed exactly what I thought.
Out of interest. Up till now I've used Castrol TT Edge as VAG recommended in my 2008 R8 4.2
Do you recommend any particular alternative brand for non track day normal driving? Many thanks.
More performance = more maintenance , also oil is cheaper than metal.
It makes sense but a diesel has dirty oil in a few miles
You'd like to think Experience cars got monthly oil changes, wouldn't you???
Having the sence that you don't have the balls and ADMITTING IT TO YOURSELF is priceless
Oh I haven’t got any sense…..lol
@A Aa - Having respect for your family is NOT 'not having balls' .....grow up!
Those cams have had a hard life!
Is that thingy broken or loose?
I love the TT as well but your bang on to much risk & to old my man 3 kids in tow..
Yeah i know!! The one that got away!! lol
i'd love me some more motorcycle content.
Working on it!!
Any thoughts on the audi 2.9 like on the rs5? Seems like a bag of sh1te 😳
I laughed at your shimming remark, they are a right pain in the butt. I only did those on a motorcycle.
Judging by the condition of that oil, it's very much an "experienced" car. Who in their right mind is going to spend $350k on a car and treat it like that🤔
Compared to the cost of the vehicle or even the cost of engine repairs, a filter and oil is cheap insurance.
If you've done a track day, considering the punishment usually dished out, the filter and oil should always be changed. I will never understand the false economic thought process .
Completely agree!
100%. Hell my bikes, truck, car whatever always get clean oil and a new filter every 5k miles. My 05 GX470 has 230k miles on and off road, my ISF has 170k miles with hard driving, and my 92 SC400 has 280,000 miles with no issues. Clean oil is by far the biggest treatment healthy motors need religiously.
I've heard of so many guys trying to save 20 bucks on a filter... Its insanity.
How the fuck do you know all this shit Rick? i get the dust cap on my A7 cross threaded when i pump me tyre up😁
The French swap dog tags for luck… that’s why they got it wrong. 😞
More to it than that. The crash was horrific.
YOUR WIFE AND KIDS HAVE TO COME FIRST. BUT JUST STAY AWAY FROM THE REAL RISKY ONES. LIKE THE TT BUT IT WOULD BE UNFAIR OF YOUR WIFE TO MAKE YOU GIVE IT ALL UP . THATS MY THOUGHTS ON IT NOT THATS IT ENEY OF MY BIZ .
Lob some Castrol R in it……!!!
Noo..Oil it's just an excuse for a bad design..
surprised McLaren let you show this tbh
I’m not affiliated so they can’t really say no. It’s not bad mouthing the product, it’s commenting on his important engine servicing is and what it can cause.
A standard 35kg weight electric car motor currently produces 330 bhp……….. Soon, a 500 bhp electric motor will be available aftermarket, for kit builders to fit to each wheel……. 2,000 hp and 4WD. Internal combustion is unable to compete with the electric future.
Yes, but thermal management is harder. Trying to keep a battery at 22°C when the ambient is 25°C and you are braking using regen of a car weighing 2500kg that energy has to go somewhere. Unlike a brake that can convert it to thermal energy you need the mass of the battery to help cushion it. We have had 300hp electric motors for decades, but that chemical reaction within a battery is limited because its a chemical reaction. Your brakes can glow red hot and having something and cooling it with air that is ambient is easier than trying to keep each AA cell of an entire battery module to within 5°C which is why a Tesla or Taycan is just a big Server. Understanding thermal management of an ICE engine that is boosted is actually closer to EV than you would think. The fluid to fluid heat exchange that Rick pointed to on the block is that size for space, weight, packaging so they can have the heat somewhere else. That is in EVs and hybrids too.
McLaren's are a byword for reliability, can't understand how this has happened 🤔
They are junk. One of the worst cars ever built and to add insult one of the worst depreciating value cars too!
Is it because it’s a Nissan
You talk to much
Thanks for your comment and watching it.
It all helps 😂
Another rubbish McLaren
Couldn’t be more wrong! 👍🏼
Lots of good stuff.
I hear ya on the shimming, it's just a PIA. Turning, Measuring, taking out camshafts, fitting shims, then turning and measuring again. It's not that it's hard or anything, just one of them jobs that's a PIA.
5 Valve head Yamaha's - just because 16 isn't good enough, hahahahaha
Brilliant content as always 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Needs better quality oil. They’re out there if one bothers to look.
Yes we have fed that back. Oil service interval is not frequent enough!
@@REPerformanceUK
I meant oil quality. High Performance Lubricants and Evolve come to mind. Far better base stock quality and a better AW package. Commercially available lubricants just aren’t up to the job as was patently obvious in your McLaren tear down video.
Here is the Evolve test performed by Porsche AG last year and the results presented at the 9th International Engine Congress in Baden-Baden in February. Oh and I’m in Australia and not involved with either company.
evolvelube.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/evolvelubricants_renewableengineoilstest.pdf
@@stephenpage-murray7226Great comment mate. I met Rick Lee CEO of Evolve lubricants at this year's Rolex Heritage Festival in Monterey. Would be great to see McLaren do a test similar to what Porsche did with Evolve.
Exactly the same as on a M156...
A CHILLING start to the video...... but very much appreciated, all the love to you and yours.
Much appreciated. Thank you for watching. All the best to you.
Video on shimming please
Planning to do one!
Whats the mileage pls Ricky?
Circa 20k
@@REPerformanceUK Thanks mate, would you recommend Motul 8100 0w 40 then on these engines? What you think?