Every time Jago says if you’d like to know more on so and so, to say so in the comments. I want to learn more on everything. I love watching these. Thanks!
I grew up as far away as one can get from London, yet fell in love with the city the moment I first set foot in it. I have since been back many times and still love the underground. The jolting starts, the slowing stops, the squeaks and even the gaps unminded. I am unpopular in my opinion and aware that many take it all forgranted, but coming from a place where divisions, dysfunction and desperation rule, London and its tube in all its long testament to resilient ingenuity and attempted common sense, remains for me a wonder of the world.
Listen, my favourite memory of the tube as a child in the 70s, was the blast of warm air and the smell of ozone as I walked at street level past the entrance to ‘Tooting Broadway’ tube station!
London and its unregulated financial services industry is highly culpable for the misery and so called desperation that people in many parts of the world are experiencing. Money from corrupt and criminal activities gets laundered here on an an industrial scale but the tube is quite charming I guess, archaic compared to transit systems in other major cities but maybe that's part of its appeal?
@@tsangpogorge Lagos too. Johannesburg also and Harare and Moscow and Addis Abbiba and Los Angeles... don't get me started on Doula and even pretty Dublin. What about Perth? . That was nice and safe..... boring though.. I lasted there a week. Turns out, after all my travels, that people are people. They do peoply things. And some saints too.
In my youth, I was visiting Germany. There I met a representative of the German Railway. He thanked the British for Bombing the outdated German railway system into oblivion. He also thanked the Americans for paying for the New German Railway system.
@@IJMacD My school in the US was small and private and we took off each March to travel abroad and study. London it was for me and my group to study theater. So we were all over the place at theaters mostly. The Barbican and a bunch of others. I hate to say it but that was 21 years ago and I don't remember everywhere we went. British Museum.. Imperial War Museum... HMS Belfast (had to look that one up)... Tower of London.. tourist stuff for the most part. It was my first big out of the country trip as a high school kid. If I could do it again now I would go further off the beaten path for foreign tourists. I would love to see HMS Victory, for instance.
This reminded me of seeing GWR pannier tanks trundling through Baker Street on the Met/Circle tracks with rakes of goods wagons on their way to the widened lines between underground workings. You stood well back from the platform edge if you didn't want coal dust or dirty smoke making your clothes smell for the rest of the day, let alone filthy.
Another excellent video from Jago. In light of Brexit, a dedicated freight lines would make sense to the ports. If nothing else than to ease the traffic congestion.
Fun fact: The freight line wouldn't work, because of the fleet of small vans needed to take goods from the stations to the customers in the West End, for example. The fun fact is that those vans are there, they are often garaged, serviced and supplied from workshops and wholesalers operating out of the very arches beneath the elevated railway lines this plan would have removed. Also part of that story are some of the largest fine wine cellars in the world that occupy a vast area utilising the arches under London Bridge station.
You are probably right that this specific plan may have needed modification, but it isn’t wholly wrongheaded I think. Singapore, for instance, built a network of underground roads to service one of its ports freeing up the aboveground streets for local commercial and private traffic. Rail line paired with underground roads and/or elevators for the final mile distribution going to and from the station.
Indeed, more on the Met lines would be interesting. Whilst I no longer live and work in London, business does occasionally require me to visit, having spent time away means that when I do pop back it makes the increase in tube traffic all the more noticeable. With this in mind, when seeing disused parts of the underground / overground (Wombling free...) it makes me wonder the reason for it not being brought back into use, money, going to the wrong places, money, political will, money....
There were so many plans for a 'better future' towards the end of the War, weren't there? This was one I had never heard of! Yes please to a programme on the 'Widened Lines'.
One thing is patently obvious is when they closed Bishopsgate and Nine Elms goods stations congestion grew considerably every year since to the point of gridlock in many central London areas mainly because of the huge amount of lorries and vans that now service the goods needs. Back in the day of BRS itself an arm of British Rail, they handled all the freight and parcels for central London using Scammell Scarabs and small container trailers and these little marvels whizzed around London keeping it fed, watered and whatnot and added very little congestion. BRS was an absolute marvel, not only did it move stuff where trains couldn't go but it also offered warehousing, pick and packing, dispatching of goods fresh in from a factory including boxing and labelling and all the factory had to do basically was make the stuff and have it ready for BRS to collect and taken to a depot to be readied for onwards delivery. Red Star and Citylink were the last tendrils of BRS but you had to admire the way the system worked unlike today where it really isn't working.
These huge underground termini make me think of Grand Central and Madison Square in New York. Also, very glad I waited for this video to come out rather than spoiling myself with the wiki article first!
If I’m not mistaken, first section of the Victoria line opened from Walthamstow Central to Highbury & Islington opened on 1 September 1968, not 1967. The line was formally opened by Queen Elizabeth II on 7 March 1969 when it had been completed to Victoria. I suspect the major reason the early plans never came to fruition was as much financial as anything else, that plus the question of rebuilding priorities.
Mr Hazard, you asked a very silly question during this video ref the Widened Lines and a program on them. YES PLEASE! I need to know more done in your own inimitable way. As to a direct freight line across London I certainly think it is well overdue. Run trains from the Isle of Grain Container Port sounds like a good idea to me...
"plans to improve congestion". They certainly succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, congestion has gotten bigger and better with every passing year :)
They were originally on what is now the metropolitan and circle line. The circle was the inner, between Kings Cross and Liverpool St.. Entering just north of KX station and exiting on platforms 1,2 at Liverpool St. The problem was that the tunnels had tight curves and only old style coaching stock would fit ( Quint articulated was used). The introduction of BR Northern City line services and finally Thameslink spelled it's reduction then closure.
Thank you for this upload. I had heard about the County of London Plan but never knew all the details. A video on the Widened Lines would be of great interest; part of it is still in use. However the "stub" to Moorgate is closed and sub-surface; it was a great shame that the Great Northern & City never made an end on junction at Moorgate with the Widened Lines that would have given an electrified through loop today at very little extra cost. Parliament has a lot to answer for in not forcing the Railway Companies to co-operate and make physical connections. They could have done so and the companies would have eventually thanked them for it. Meanwhile we have the mess at Watford, the lack of connection at St.Albans and the useless stun at Mill Hill East which connects with nothing to the north. Not to mention the ridiculous Uxbridge situation where we could have had a Piccadilly loop to Heathrow via West Drayton using mostly an existing line which did not connect.
When you said "freight only underground line" I immediately thought of the post office railway, whose usage was sadly discontinued a few years ago. It seems very unlikely a circle line frieght railway would be viable. I am glad these plans didn't go anywhere, it would have been monumentally expensive and I am not sure that it actually would improve the transport situation.
And this is is one place where Brussels was ahead of its time. All our former termini were connected with the opening of our North-South Connection, aptly called Line 0. Work started on it before WW1, was delayed by not one, but 2 WWs and finally opened in 1954. Almost all trains to Brussels go through it, Eurostar being a notable exception (discounting the Amsterdam service here).
I was a regular user of the London rail system from the 1930s until the 1990s and I greatly enjoy your videos. May I offer the following. a) I was at boarding school in Brackley over the 1940s and after the end of WWII travelled regularly on the "Great Central" to and from Marylebone. I discovered that many users of that connection swindled the railway by changing to a Metropolitan train at Aylesbury and when they arrived at Baker Street claim that they had travelled from Finchley Road, proffering the 2d or so for the fare (tickets couldn't be checked on the Aylesbury trains as the carriages had no corridor). b) I was a regular user of the BR service between Brookmans Park and Moorgate. When those trains were still using the Widened Lines they were so decrepit that the lighting in the carriages frequently failed, leaving us in the dark (the changeover to the "Great Northern Electrics" in 1976 was a shambles). c) I remember the experiment on the Northern Line of using double length trains (12 cars?) which meant that trains had to stop twice at most stations.
Jago, your talent for digging out fascinating and little- known stories leaves me quite amazed. I've been fascinated with railways, particularly in the south east, for decades now, yet this is the first I've ever heard of this scheme! Given the near- bankrupt state of the nation's finances post-war, I wonder where the LCC thought the colossal sums of money needed for this would be coming from. Surely even in 1943 it must have been obvious to all but the most blinkered that saving the world from tyranny did not come cheap, and was going to cost us our future prosperity for many, many years to come?
I do think an underground freight line would be pretty good. Any businesses within walking distance could eliminate vans/lorries altogether, but even if the last mile were still done with them it’d reduce congestion by a lot, as they’d be driving only within London rather than into London from outside.
There was once an underground electric freight railway. The royal mail postal freight railway. Imagine the parcels it could have carried during lockdown, keeping diesel vans off the streets.
Interesting ideas. But if the planners themselves acknowledged this was not how passengers used the lines then it would have been a huge expensive white elephant (and castle). Crossrail and Thameslink seem to be reasonable options, although coming from the southcoast to St Pancras one is aware that its not the speediest of routes once you are inside London. The London Station at Olympia which would have been a great interchange and through line never really happened and has (largely) disappeared. However, when traveling around the overground lines of London, it is possible to see many lines - some of which have the appearance of being used even if not electrified. I assume this could mean London has the potential to fit in new connections along these if necessary (assuming they are goods only at present). Not only that but there are still traces of older disused lines, viaducts et al, which might be more difficult to resuscitate if passenger traffic warranted it. The story of the Widen Lines would be interesting. Good work Jago.
A major obstacle for any railway development at that time was lobbying from GM and Ford. Ministers of Transport were in the pocket of the road lobby. Infrastructure needed massive post war investment. You can't buy your own train and keep it on your drive (unless your a McAlpine, ironically) but we can sell you a car. Thanks JH.
There is a relatively new freight line being built with a depot in Bow; a few sidings are being built to supply an aggregates yard with the intention of getting construction freight into London on the roads reduced. I think currently has one operational siding but more are being added. Is something that I have seen used only fairly recently. Located behind West Ham stadium.
I've never been to London, but I do know that there was once a spur of the City Widened Line from Farringdon to Moorgate. It was last used by Thameslink trains coming down from the north. It closed around 2008 because platform extensions at Farringdon ended up blocking the route; they didn't want curved platforms, so they opted to sacrifice the spur instead where they could build them straight.
There is kind-of a link from the Great Western Mainline on to the Hammersmith & Circle Line. The current track layout and the different power supplies mean you can't actually use it as one, but in the overall scheme of things, it wouldn't be that expensive to put in place.
Surely in a world that adopted such a plan the cable car would also have been built underground. Of course one would need to first excavate and occupy a vast cavern underground to justify its existence, but think of how glorious it would be to sail from nowhere to nowhere while being simultaneously above and below London.
£84mil and that's on budget. What are the odd the proposing company took he huge study grant and will say costs are too prohibitive some time later. More annoyingly I found the government already paid for a tunnel study! assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/762006/CCS207_CCS1118018748-001_Benchmarking_tunnelling_costs_and_production_rates_in_the_UK_Web_Accessible.pdf
Costs 😱😱 the country was on its knees at the end of the war and could never have funded those projects. Plenty of cross London freight now, my favourite is the dudding hill line. I've driven all types of freight from the midland mainline to Willesden, Marylebone, Acton and Northfleet via Hither Green across the branch. Should of course have new signals and electrification.
@@davidsmith7124 still plenty of capacity, the dudding hill line is greatly under used as is the tottenham curve from the midland mainline to upper hollaway and on to the ECML, east london and east anglia.
As always, very interesting and the skyline has changed a lot since I was last there. Happy New Year and thank you for your informative, dry wit videos.
I used to work across the road from Holborn Viaduct station, but the journey to Lewisham would have taken three times as long and, if I recall correctly, involved changing at Peckham for the train from Victoria.
I have no idea why I'm watching this. I don't live in London (nor in the rest of the UK), don't particularly like the city. I have no interest in trains, the tube, subway, metro or what ever you want to call it. Infrastructure, traffic flow or logistics are pretty low on my list of interests. But I absolutely love this channel! It is almost some kind of meditation whilst learning things I have no use of. Brilliant! Thank you!
You remind me of the Post Office underground line in London which is still being used today. During the war, this was used to transport other things besides mail. Have you already done a video on this? I haven't seen it. When we were last in London, I took a trip on the line which has been converted into a tourist -trap-, sorry tourist attraction. The person I went with, had a panic attack a few minutes into the journey as the carriages were really really small. In their defence, there were warning signs put up for anyone who suffered from claustrophobia not to get in. The person who I was with did not suffer from claustrophobia, but as a result of that trip, sure does now!
Not sure the Post Office line is still in service - I think email killed a while ago? I was lucky enough to visit it when it was still working in early 2000s?
@@JagoHazzard Have you thought about walking through the automobile tunnel you journeyed through previously to see if the lockdowns have improved the air quality?
I took the tourist ride last summer on a visit to London (July 2019). They said the mail had long since stopped using it at all. Just the bit for the tourist trips. And I think they also said that the Royal Mail was soon going to close the giant sorting facility that was next to their little museum. I was honestly disappointed that we didn't travel a few miles on it, would have been awesome to go as far as Euston, or even Paddington! The whole trip was probably about 25 minutes long, but that was mostly for the 3 or 4 film presentations at stops along the way (which are very well done). Without any stops, it would have lasted 5 minutes at most. Just an out and back via a loop. I'm guessing we travelled about 500 or 600 meters total. I have video from my phone that if I get around to uploading it to a hard drive Mr. Jago would be free to use...
I personally believe that these lines would have been a great asset, and we may have seen more of a Thameslink/Crossrail thinking to transport in London. This would have permitted more flexibility with mainline services and may have meant that the underground (i.e. tube) system as we know it today would not have expanded so much. Although, I doubt that Britain would have had the capital to realise the projects envisaged in the plan.
I think a main line railway roughly shadowing the circle line which would allow through workings from the various main line termini would have been handy, although I couldn't have converted the circle line to a goods only line, as I suspect it would be needed to add extra capacity, maybe keep the circle as is for local traffic, and have the "Super circle" just to connect the main lines
London still needs freight rail. (Once the lines are automated and can run 24/7 the freight can be shipped in at night on dedicated rolling stock that can be marshalled into existing trains in the evening and out in the morning.)
Fascinating - I'd never seen this. The theme seems to be loops - trains go back where they came from. Presumably this is due to how the 'Big 4' railways worked: they seem to have managed inter-regional freight trains, but regular passenger trains crossing central London - too difficult. In fact, when it came up again - after nationalisation - the idea (deemed unaffordable) was for two main lines (roughly NW-SE and SW-NE) crossing at Leicester Square. It's a shame that the need for better cross-London main-lines has been persistently ignored. Yes, for road users, build a multi-billion M25, but green - rail - long-distance transport has no need to avoid city centres. But the M25 is crowded partly due to the lengthy and uncomfortable process of crossing London by rail. Where is Sir Edward Watkin now he is needed? My own suggestion? - each main line to London feeds into one of three cross-london tunnels, with a triangle of interchange stations (maybe West-End, SouthBank, and City) enabling all cross London journeys to be made with one easy change, or none. Simples!
Widened Lines please! Even a chance for early Rail Blue non-corridor suburban stock hauled by Class 31s and a limited number of freights up until the early ‘70s, if memory serves. Your blend of capturing history now but counterpointing with a healthy dose of researched origin stories continues to fascinate. Thank you 🙂
These tracks are the eastward continuation of the Widened Lines, as referred to in the video. They used to take suburban services from King's Cross and St. Pancras as far as Moorgate, where the terminating platforms are still evident. Those services ceased a good few years ago. When the Thameslink scheme was upgraded to form the current network, longer platforms were required for the new trains, and the platforms at Farringdon were thus extended at the east end of the station, thus permanently severing the Moorgate tracks from those towards City Thameslink and onto Blackfriars. Hope that helps! 🙂
Rail Freight is National. Keeps lorries off of the main motorways of the UK. Even a local freight container terminal I know of is busier than the local dock it's adjacent to. And that dock has been there hundreds of years. Already they've built houses on some of that previous dockland area. They should look at converting the Old Post Office Line to passenger ala Glasgow style.
More missed opportunities. Much like the London motorway proposals of the 1960s. If only these useful redevelopments in London had been carried out when much of the inner suburbs were in ruins or were slums to be cleared. Before gentrification and the stupidly high property prices that resulted made any redevelopment in these areas too expensive. These mainline loading gauge tunnels seem very much like today's Crossrail but would have been built at a fraction of the cost. Paris did build deep mainline stock tunnels under the city later, in the 1970s? And this system of lines, RATPE, were a great success.
That was superb Jago. I recommend you to all my friends! A video on the widened lines would be very much loved, I've always wanted to know more about their operation.
Jago and viewers - for me, this channel has been an oasis of calm reassurance for what has been a truly awful 2020. I'm not sure how I came across it, so I may have to thank the algorithm elves over at YT. Whatever the case, I'll look forward to stepping through the door of 2021 with Jago's small snippets of nostalgic curiosities to provide that inevitable pick-me-up! The comments too were really interesting. Wishing a happy and prosperous new year to one and all. Stay safe, healthy and give a collective kick up the a*se to a dreadful 2020. ps. Jago, whatever you suggest, ('let me know in the comment section...') the answer is: 'Yes, I'm interested; no objections' lol
I too was thinking of the wonderful post office underground. Has any other city in the world ever had such a thing? all dug by hand. connecting post office and railway stations. And it was driverless. Completely automated. Unfortunately it has been reduced to a tourist pay-to-ride sentimental journey for urban trainspotters and off-beat explorers. Rumble gently through the dark tunnels in tiny seats with plexiglass covers, on the wagons that used to transport the mail carts. Now someone sits at the front. The post moves mostly by lorry now. dock to dock. ahhh that's austerity for you!
I wonder why this plan is not more widely known about. But rather more I wonder just how many tracks would have been needed on that new circle line to absorb the passenger flows of Victoria, Waterloo, London Bridge....
Great video Jago! A video about the widened line through Barbican would be great! As you mentioned goods lines, it would be really interesting to learn about the freight lines that run through/around London. I've seen freight passing through Barking and along the Overground stretch (i.e. on the Barking - Gospel Oak line), and even along the London Tilbury and Southend line at times... There's also a railway (possibly a freight line) way over in West London that runs under the elevated part of the Piccadilly Line (between Boston Manor - Osterley - Hounslow east? - ), so it would be really interesting to learn about these too. Anyway - I know that you really busy, but just some thoughts here. Thanks very much for the great videos! 👏🏾❤❤🌟👌
So this has piqued my curiosity. If at all possible, can you do a vid on a potential central London freight line. Pros and cons, technical feasibility, how such a thing might function in modern London. I sometimes feel like the collective attitude towards planning for the future is either unimaginative or futuristic. Whereas I imagine some lateral, somewhat radical thinking as to how one might reorganise a city might benefit from looking at certain elements of old tech from time to time. It’s always baffled me how the Royal Mail underground train operation doesn’t exist anymore and how apparently no one has thought that might be a good idea for how to get a whole fleet of trucks and vans off the road… Anyway, I’d be interested in a video on how a freight service on the underground might work practically. I’d also be interested in something on the mail train too - come to think of it! Love your content.
Fascinating, I dread imagine the cost of sending even London Bridge station underground, never mind all the lines from Bermondsey through it to Charing Cross etc! Of course the one line which WAS sent underground was the line north of Blackfriars to Holborn Viaduct, but this had the benefit of releasing valuable land in the City, whereas the same can't really be said about Bermondsey and Southwark in the 1940s 😁
Those areas were where the docks were, lots of smalls traffic which I think was considered would carry on, hence the freight plan, it would have made sense. what was the game changer in freight was the adoption of the ISO container, which is great for distance flows, but needs lots of delivery trucks for its contents.
Great videos looking at how we ended with our transport infrastructure we have today. You mentioned congestion on the roads. I wondered if you would like to share your vision of what transport might look like in a carbon neutral world of the future and how we might get there. Trains are a great mass transit but how do you get people safely to the trains?
Having stations and/or tram stops in walking distance would be a start, at least for urban areas and towns/villages that have a line through them or near enough. Dr. Beeching really didn’t do anyone any favours in that regard.
A few ideas came to mind: - Buses could be a start, perhaps? Preferably running along routes that were transit-oriented/dedicated (signalised intersections, right of way, etc.) - Bicycles, with much the same idea (of dedicated paths and signalling to allow relatively quick, non-stop travel to the stations) Admittedly, this boils down to "do what the Dutch are doing", really, but it does look to be the right idea vis-a-vis encouraging last mile trips to stations that might be too far for walking _without_ the car. Also, @Master Trams, Chris was talking about getting people to trains vs the types of technology to replace the current stuff. I'm also of the mind that the new tech's not that necessary and trying to replace the railways with them would maybe defeat the purpose of, say, reducing carbon footprint (you'd need a lot of resources to reconstruct the system from scratch, after all)
@@leongkinwai9709 yes, busses and lightweight personal transit options is what I'm thinking. Cars will always have a high carbon footprint because of their production and take up a lot of space. With LTNs and safe routes free from cars would enable bicycles, mobility scooters, e-scooters and any futuristic miniature cars to be used together safely for local trips. Perhaps family sized driverless taxis on set routes too but pricing would be key to ensure low carbon and low pollution options are most popular.
@@leongkinwai9709 Which is exactly why I said the future wouldn't include any of these pieces of new tech... And you say buses... Are trams out of the question then in your mind?
I must admit an underground freight only line would be very interesting. I would suspect that it would have to be built around containerisation, but that would make the freight handling facilities really easy. The question would be is how automated would it be? Would it be basically one huge city wide underground baggage handling system.... Anyone else getting Half-Life Metro vibes?
It might be interesting to study a dedicated container system for garbage removal. Lots of discussion about freight delivery into the city - how about getting the bad stuff out. Maybe fill up some disused tunnels with garbage. Interested outsider !
Great video. I wonder if they should resurrect the Royal Mail underground to take parcels and deliveries - the number of deliveries these days has skyrocketed!
A few seconds in I thought Ah Abercrombie Report. But I was wrong. Him and his kind did a lot of this- in their case- far sighted short sighted planning stuff, but I think that was a lot later, about 1949 I think, and referred to the UK. I did stumble on a history of regeneration reports in a charity shop. Brutalist is just one word you could use. It made scary reading as it was all about chopping up (Edinburgh in this case) and putting bloody great motorway type ring roads in the heart of what's now a world heritage site totally spoiling the bits the tourists love, but they had their way elsewhere. Any history here is concise and interesting, so widened lines would be fine by me.
Those plans sound overcomplicated and slightly insane. Not to mention a tad redundant. Anyway, the money men would of probably killed it sooner or later like they did with the Ringways project
I agree - there doesn't seem to be a single sensible route in the plan! It isn't even a pipe-dream but more of a pipe-nightmare, and a loopy one at that …
There is plenty of freight on the rails in London, though notparticularlycentral. Much of the Overground shares its routes with freight traffic for example.
Interesting to speculate how a freight loop might have worked. I wonder what unique infrastructure systems might have developed, perhaps underground hubs connecting to the basements of city centre businesses.
Quite often i think they should just have a tunnel boring machine running all the time, congestion will always be a problem and the tunnels would always have a use, whether for pedestrian/bike traffic, or vehicular/light train.
Thanks so much Jago, and wishing you well for 2021. I love how your mind works picking subjects to look at, some I know of (vaguely), others, like this, a complete eye-opener. Keep up the good work. Lots must agree with me, looking at the rate your subs are growing. And yes, I always want to learn more.
I do honestly think that the loop through Waterloo, Charing Cross, Victoria and Cannon Street could defo save maybe a couple of operators instead of terminating at London Bridge and the other stations to instead use the loop to save the turnaround time. Just a much bigger version of the Kennington Loop?
I am giving a shout relating to the widen lines
Me too!
Hear, hear.
Moi aussi!
Holler!
Yo yo yo
Every time Jago says if you’d like to know more on so and so, to say so in the comments. I want to learn more on everything. I love watching these. Thanks!
I agree.
Me too
I love the format used as well as the content itself. Captivating and enjoyable to watch :)
Starship Troopers - Would you like to know more?
Count me in, 5-4-3-2-1
I grew up as far away as one can get from London, yet fell in love with the city the moment I first set foot in it. I have since been back many times and still love the underground. The jolting starts, the slowing stops, the squeaks and even the gaps unminded. I am unpopular in my opinion and aware that many take it all forgranted, but coming from a place where divisions, dysfunction and desperation rule, London and its tube in all its long testament to resilient ingenuity and attempted common sense, remains for me a wonder of the world.
Listen, my favourite memory of the tube as a child in the 70s, was the blast of warm air and the smell of ozone as I walked at street level past the entrance to ‘Tooting Broadway’ tube station!
London and its unregulated financial services industry is highly culpable for the misery and so called desperation that people in many parts of the world are experiencing. Money from corrupt and criminal activities gets laundered here on an an industrial scale but the tube is quite charming I guess, archaic compared to transit systems in other major cities but maybe that's part of its appeal?
@@tsangpogorge Lagos too. Johannesburg also and Harare and Moscow and Addis Abbiba and Los Angeles... don't get me started on Doula and even pretty Dublin. What about Perth? . That was nice and safe..... boring though.. I lasted there a week. Turns out, after all my travels, that people are people. They do peoply things.
And some saints too.
wait you grew up 900km of the coast of New Zealand?
@@mancubwwa Physically. No. Metaphysically. Yes.
In my youth, I was visiting Germany. There I met a representative of the German Railway. He thanked the British for Bombing the outdated German railway system into oblivion. He also thanked the Americans for paying for the New German Railway system.
I've been to London all of once on a school trip in 2000. That said, I find your work fascinating. Keep it up.
I bet it was to visit the Millennium Dome.
@@IJMacD My school in the US was small and private and we took off each March to travel abroad and study. London it was for me and my group to study theater. So we were all over the place at theaters mostly. The Barbican and a bunch of others. I hate to say it but that was 21 years ago and I don't remember everywhere we went. British Museum.. Imperial War Museum... HMS Belfast (had to look that one up)... Tower of London.. tourist stuff for the most part. It was my first big out of the country trip as a high school kid. If I could do it again now I would go further off the beaten path for foreign tourists. I would love to see HMS Victory, for instance.
Reminiscent of Christopher Wren's plans for London after the Great Fire - practicalities got in the way.
and today, post covid + ubiquitous internet.
This reminded me of seeing GWR pannier tanks trundling through Baker Street on the Met/Circle tracks with rakes of goods wagons on their way to the widened lines between underground workings. You stood well back from the platform edge if you didn't want coal dust or dirty smoke making your clothes smell for the rest of the day, let alone filthy.
Yea to more on that met line thing. You also missed an Uncle Albert joke at the start.
Muttley!
During the war !!
‘tis an auld dugs life aye l... o. l... 👀
Another excellent video from Jago. In light of Brexit, a dedicated freight lines would make sense to the ports. If nothing else than to ease the traffic congestion.
Fun fact:
The freight line wouldn't work, because of the fleet of small vans needed to take goods from the stations to the customers in the West End, for example. The fun fact is that those vans are there, they are often garaged, serviced and supplied from workshops and wholesalers operating out of the very arches beneath the elevated railway lines this plan would have removed. Also part of that story are some of the largest fine wine cellars in the world that occupy a vast area utilising the arches under London Bridge station.
You are probably right that this specific plan may have needed modification, but it isn’t wholly wrongheaded I think. Singapore, for instance, built a network of underground roads to service one of its ports freeing up the aboveground streets for local commercial and private traffic. Rail line paired with underground roads and/or elevators for the final mile distribution going to and from the station.
"Fun to speculate"... Never stopped you before, Jago!
If Jago happened upon a time machine, no doubt a wry smile would appear.
I'm having horrifying visions of New York's Penn Station's famous rat maze being implemented all across London
That's been fixed. Governor Cuomo opens the new station building on Friday!
@@christopherwright8388 doesn’t sound fixed at all. It’s just a concourse for the surface lines, everything already there is still there.
Indeed, more on the Met lines would be interesting. Whilst I no longer live and work in London, business does occasionally require me to visit, having spent time away means that when I do pop back it makes the increase in tube traffic all the more noticeable.
With this in mind, when seeing disused parts of the underground / overground (Wombling free...) it makes me wonder the reason for it not being brought back into use, money, going to the wrong places, money, political will, money....
A polite SHOUT for the city widened lines - please 😃
There were so many plans for a 'better future' towards the end of the War, weren't there? This was one I had never heard of! Yes please to a programme on the 'Widened Lines'.
One thing is patently obvious is when they closed Bishopsgate and Nine Elms goods stations congestion grew considerably every year since to the point of gridlock in many central London areas mainly because of the huge amount of lorries and vans that now service the goods needs. Back in the day of BRS itself an arm of British Rail, they handled all the freight and parcels for central London using Scammell Scarabs and small container trailers and these little marvels whizzed around London keeping it fed, watered and whatnot and added very little congestion. BRS was an absolute marvel, not only did it move stuff where trains couldn't go but it also offered warehousing, pick and packing, dispatching of goods fresh in from a factory including boxing and labelling and all the factory had to do basically was make the stuff and have it ready for BRS to collect and taken to a depot to be readied for onwards delivery. Red Star and Citylink were the last tendrils of BRS but you had to admire the way the system worked unlike today where it really isn't working.
These huge underground termini make me think of Grand Central and Madison Square in New York. Also, very glad I waited for this video to come out rather than spoiling myself with the wiki article first!
If I’m not mistaken, first section of the Victoria line opened from Walthamstow Central to Highbury & Islington opened on 1 September 1968, not 1967. The line was formally opened by Queen Elizabeth II on 7 March 1969 when it had been completed to Victoria. I suspect the major reason the early plans never came to fruition was as much financial as anything else, that plus the question of rebuilding priorities.
A council with a plan....oh dear.
Mr Hazard, you asked a very silly question during this video ref the Widened Lines and a program on them. YES PLEASE! I need to know more done in your own inimitable way. As to a direct freight line across London I certainly think it is well overdue. Run trains from the Isle of Grain Container Port sounds like a good idea to me...
"plans to improve congestion". They certainly succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, congestion has gotten bigger and better with every passing year :)
Can you make a video explaining more about the widen lines made by the Metropolitan Line
I would like you to teach more about all lines. I love your work.
Definitely a shout for the wider lines
Another vote for a widened lines video.
Jago you must do the widened lines and how does this line up with the Motorway ring roads.
They were originally on what is now the metropolitan and circle line. The circle was the inner, between Kings Cross and Liverpool St.. Entering just north of KX station and exiting on platforms 1,2 at Liverpool St. The problem was that the tunnels had tight curves and only old style coaching stock would fit ( Quint articulated was used). The introduction of BR Northern City line services and finally Thameslink spelled it's reduction then closure.
Thank you for this upload. I had heard about the County of London Plan but never knew all the details. A video on the Widened Lines would be of great interest; part of it is still in use. However the "stub" to Moorgate is closed and sub-surface; it was a great shame that the Great Northern & City never made an end on junction at Moorgate with the Widened Lines that would have given an electrified through loop today at very little extra cost. Parliament has a lot to answer for in not forcing the Railway Companies to co-operate and make physical connections. They could have done so and the companies would have eventually thanked them for it. Meanwhile we have the mess at Watford, the lack of connection at St.Albans and the useless stun at Mill Hill East which connects with nothing to the north. Not to mention the ridiculous Uxbridge situation where we could have had a Piccadilly loop to Heathrow via West Drayton using mostly an existing line which did not connect.
When you said "freight only underground line" I immediately thought of the post office railway, whose usage was sadly discontinued a few years ago. It seems very unlikely a circle line frieght railway would be viable. I am glad these plans didn't go anywhere, it would have been monumentally expensive and I am not sure that it actually would improve the transport situation.
Oh my God, it's the railway route from Assassin's Creed: Syndicate but underground.
And this is is one place where Brussels was ahead of its time. All our former termini were connected with the opening of our North-South Connection, aptly called Line 0. Work started on it before WW1, was delayed by not one, but 2 WWs and finally opened in 1954. Almost all trains to Brussels go through it, Eurostar being a notable exception (discounting the Amsterdam service here).
I was a regular user of the London rail system from the 1930s until the 1990s and I greatly enjoy your videos. May I offer the following. a) I was at boarding school in Brackley over the 1940s and after the end of WWII travelled regularly on the "Great Central" to and from Marylebone. I discovered that many users of that connection swindled the railway by changing to a Metropolitan train at Aylesbury and when they arrived at Baker Street claim that they had travelled from Finchley Road, proffering the 2d or so for the fare (tickets couldn't be checked on the Aylesbury trains as the carriages had no corridor). b) I was a regular user of the BR service between Brookmans Park and Moorgate. When those trains were still using the Widened Lines they were so decrepit that the lighting in the carriages frequently failed, leaving us in the dark (the changeover to the "Great Northern Electrics" in 1976 was a shambles). c) I remember the experiment on the Northern Line of using double length trains (12 cars?) which meant that trains had to stop twice at most stations.
Jago, your talent for digging out fascinating and little- known stories leaves me quite amazed. I've been fascinated with railways, particularly in the south east, for decades now, yet this is the first I've ever heard of this scheme!
Given the near- bankrupt state of the nation's finances post-war, I wonder where the LCC thought the colossal sums of money needed for this would be coming from. Surely even in 1943 it must have been obvious to all but the most blinkered that saving the world from tyranny did not come cheap, and was going to cost us our future prosperity for many, many years to come?
I do think an underground freight line would be pretty good. Any businesses within walking distance could eliminate vans/lorries altogether, but even if the last mile were still done with them it’d reduce congestion by a lot, as they’d be driving only within London rather than into London from outside.
There was once an underground electric freight railway. The royal mail postal freight railway. Imagine the parcels it could have carried during lockdown, keeping diesel vans off the streets.
Really interesting! Well done finding something even hardcore london rail nerds don't know!
Interesting ideas. But if the planners themselves acknowledged this was not how passengers used the lines then it would have been a huge expensive white elephant (and castle). Crossrail and Thameslink seem to be reasonable options, although coming from the southcoast to St Pancras one is aware that its not the speediest of routes once you are inside London. The London Station at Olympia which would have been a great interchange and through line never really happened and has (largely) disappeared. However, when traveling around the overground lines of London, it is possible to see many lines - some of which have the appearance of being used even if not electrified. I assume this could mean London has the potential to fit in new connections along these if necessary (assuming they are goods only at present). Not only that but there are still traces of older disused lines, viaducts et al, which might be more difficult to resuscitate if passenger traffic warranted it. The story of the Widen Lines would be interesting. Good work Jago.
A major obstacle for any railway development at that time was lobbying from GM and Ford. Ministers of Transport were in the pocket of the road lobby. Infrastructure needed massive post war investment. You can't buy your own train and keep it on your drive (unless your a McAlpine, ironically) but we can sell you a car.
Thanks JH.
you keep your car in your garage not the drive way to your garage
@@Satters Re-read. It's the train that would be in your garage.....
‘It’s fun to speculate’ Thank you for giving us the chance to do so in such an informative and interesting manner 👏👏👍😀
There is a relatively new freight line being built with a depot in Bow; a few sidings are being built to supply an aggregates yard with the intention of getting construction freight into London on the roads reduced. I think currently has one operational siding but more are being added. Is something that I have seen used only fairly recently. Located behind West Ham stadium.
Widened Lines video: yes please!
I've always wondered what the fenced portal at Barbican is about.
I've never been to London, but I do know that there was once a spur of the City Widened Line from Farringdon to Moorgate. It was last used by Thameslink trains coming down from the north. It closed around 2008 because platform extensions at Farringdon ended up blocking the route; they didn't want curved platforms, so they opted to sacrifice the spur instead where they could build them straight.
It used to be a branch of Thameslink that terminated at Moorgate. I remember taking trains along that branch about 20 years ago.
There is kind-of a link from the Great Western Mainline on to the Hammersmith & Circle Line. The current track layout and the different power supplies mean you can't actually use it as one, but in the overall scheme of things, it wouldn't be that expensive to put in place.
Surely in a world that adopted such a plan the cable car would also have been built underground. Of course one would need to first excavate and occupy a vast cavern underground to justify its existence, but think of how glorious it would be to sail from nowhere to nowhere while being simultaneously above and below London.
Central London freight line, there is a plan for a small hyperloop style package system from Milton Keynes to central London for cargo only.
£84mil and that's on budget. What are the odd the proposing company took he huge study grant and will say costs are too prohibitive some time later.
More annoyingly I found the government already paid for a tunnel study!
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/762006/CCS207_CCS1118018748-001_Benchmarking_tunnelling_costs_and_production_rates_in_the_UK_Web_Accessible.pdf
Costs 😱😱 the country was on its knees at the end of the war and could never have funded those projects. Plenty of cross London freight now, my favourite is the dudding hill line.
I've driven all types of freight from the midland mainline to Willesden, Marylebone, Acton and Northfleet via Hither Green across the branch. Should of course have new signals and electrification.
Do you think the proposed cross London lines would have alleviated modern freight capacity or is there still plenty of capacity for freight trains?
@@davidsmith7124 still plenty of capacity, the dudding hill line is greatly under used as is the tottenham curve from the midland mainline to upper hollaway and on to the ECML, east london and east anglia.
@@paulbarber1960 Thanks!
Another interesting and well produced production. A widened lines video would be much appreciated too. All the best.
How about something on the many goods yards in London, perhaps as a follow-on to the widened lines?
As always, very interesting and the skyline has changed a lot since I was last there. Happy New Year and thank you for your informative, dry wit videos.
The widened lines sound interesting.
Great stuff Jago, love the idea of an underground freight line!
I used to work across the road from Holborn Viaduct station, but the journey to Lewisham would have taken three times as long and, if I recall correctly, involved changing at Peckham for the train from Victoria.
I have no idea why I'm watching this. I don't live in London (nor in the rest of the UK), don't particularly like the city. I have no interest in trains, the tube, subway, metro or what ever you want to call it. Infrastructure, traffic flow or logistics are pretty low on my list of interests. But I absolutely love this channel! It is almost some kind of meditation whilst learning things I have no use of. Brilliant! Thank you!
You remind me of the Post Office underground line in London which is still being used today. During the war, this was used to transport other things besides mail.
Have you already done a video on this? I haven't seen it.
When we were last in London, I took a trip on the line which has been converted into a tourist -trap-, sorry tourist attraction. The person I went with, had a panic attack a few minutes into the journey as the carriages were really really small. In their defence, there were warning signs put up for anyone who suffered from claustrophobia not to get in. The person who I was with did not suffer from claustrophobia, but as a result of that trip, sure does now!
I was going to do a video about it before lockdown - alas, foiled by the pandemic.
Not sure the Post Office line is still in service - I think email killed a while ago? I was lucky enough to visit it when it was still working in early 2000s?
@@JagoHazzard Have you thought about walking through the automobile tunnel you journeyed through previously to see if the lockdowns have improved the air quality?
no longer in use, Royal Mail closed a lot of the sorting offices it served and parts for the trains were a problem
I took the tourist ride last summer on a visit to London (July 2019). They said the mail had long since stopped using it at all. Just the bit for the tourist trips. And I think they also said that the Royal Mail was soon going to close the giant sorting facility that was next to their little museum. I was honestly disappointed that we didn't travel a few miles on it, would have been awesome to go as far as Euston, or even Paddington! The whole trip was probably about 25 minutes long, but that was mostly for the 3 or 4 film presentations at stops along the way (which are very well done). Without any stops, it would have lasted 5 minutes at most. Just an out and back via a loop. I'm guessing we travelled about 500 or 600 meters total.
I have video from my phone that if I get around to uploading it to a hard drive Mr. Jago would be free to use...
I personally believe that these lines would have been a great asset, and we may have seen more of a Thameslink/Crossrail thinking to transport in London.
This would have permitted more flexibility with mainline services and may have meant that the underground (i.e. tube) system as we know it today would not have expanded so much.
Although, I doubt that Britain would have had the capital to realise the projects envisaged in the plan.
A freight line is a great idea, and could allow greater pedestrianisation in built-up Central London.
I think a main line railway roughly shadowing the circle line which would allow through workings from the various main line termini would have been handy, although I couldn't have converted the circle line to a goods only line, as I suspect it would be needed to add extra capacity, maybe keep the circle as is for local traffic, and have the "Super circle" just to connect the main lines
I definitely would like to know more about the Wideion lines please
The loading gauge of the Circle line would surely have made it entirely unsuitable to be used as a goods line unless the track bed could be lowered.
Very likely, unless the idea was that they would only use it for things like shop deliveries.
London still needs freight rail. (Once the lines are automated and can run 24/7 the freight can be shipped in at night on dedicated rolling stock that can be marshalled into existing trains in the evening and out in the morning.)
Fascinating - I'd never seen this. The theme seems to be loops - trains go back where they came from. Presumably this is due to how the 'Big 4' railways worked: they seem to have managed inter-regional freight trains, but regular passenger trains crossing central London - too difficult. In fact, when it came up again - after nationalisation - the idea (deemed unaffordable) was for two main lines (roughly NW-SE and SW-NE) crossing at Leicester Square. It's a shame that the need for better cross-London main-lines has been persistently ignored. Yes, for road users, build a multi-billion M25, but green - rail - long-distance transport has no need to avoid city centres. But the M25 is crowded partly due to the lengthy and uncomfortable process of crossing London by rail. Where is Sir Edward Watkin now he is needed? My own suggestion? - each main line to London feeds into one of three cross-london tunnels, with a triangle of interchange stations (maybe West-End, SouthBank, and City) enabling all cross London journeys to be made with one easy change, or none. Simples!
Widened Lines please! Even a chance for early Rail Blue non-corridor suburban stock hauled by Class 31s and a limited number of freights up until the early ‘70s, if memory serves. Your blend of capturing history now but counterpointing with a healthy dose of researched origin stories continues to fascinate. Thank you 🙂
Ah yes nice cost efficient, easy to build, timely underground mainline railways criss uhhh crossing the city...
The Blitz - *Destroys much of the city*
People:"Oh no!"
Architects and planners: "Its free real state"
Why my hometown of Rotterdam looks the way it does... :-p
Two words - Urban Renewal.
Kids: It's a free playground!! up until the 90s there were still a few empty bomb sites around town
There was similar response to the Great Fire of London.
Could you do a video on the disused tunnels coming out of Barbican station and Farringdon station?
These tracks are the eastward continuation of the Widened Lines, as referred to in the video. They used to take suburban services from King's Cross and St. Pancras as far as Moorgate, where the terminating platforms are still evident. Those services ceased a good few years ago. When the Thameslink scheme was upgraded to form the current network, longer platforms were required for the new trains, and the platforms at Farringdon were thus extended at the east end of the station, thus permanently severing the Moorgate tracks from those towards City Thameslink and onto Blackfriars. Hope that helps! 🙂
Rail Freight is National. Keeps lorries off of the main motorways of the UK. Even a local freight container terminal I know of is busier than the local dock it's adjacent to. And that dock has been there hundreds of years. Already they've built houses on some of that previous dockland area. They should look at converting the Old Post Office Line to passenger ala Glasgow style.
An absolutely superb resource.
I am also giving a shout out to the widen lines
Yes ! . . . Widened Lines Please ! . . . Including The Smithfield Market Station Would Be Great !
Thank you for talking us through with a map. 😌
More missed opportunities. Much like the London motorway proposals of the 1960s. If only these useful redevelopments in London had been carried out when much of the inner suburbs were in ruins or were slums to be cleared. Before gentrification and the stupidly high property prices that resulted made any redevelopment in these areas too expensive. These mainline loading gauge tunnels seem very much like today's Crossrail but would have been built at a fraction of the cost. Paris did build deep mainline stock tunnels under the city later, in the 1970s? And this system of lines, RATPE, were a great success.
That was superb Jago. I recommend you to all my friends! A video on the widened lines would be very much loved, I've always wanted to know more about their operation.
Way-hay Jago - you've arrived! I saw the first advert on your channel, on this video - you're getting noticed young sir!
Jago and viewers - for me, this channel has been an oasis of calm reassurance for what has been a truly awful 2020. I'm not sure how I came across it, so I may have to thank the algorithm elves over at YT. Whatever the case, I'll look forward to stepping through the door of 2021 with Jago's small snippets of nostalgic curiosities to provide that inevitable pick-me-up! The comments too were really interesting. Wishing a happy and prosperous new year to one and all. Stay safe, healthy and give a collective kick up the a*se to a dreadful 2020. ps. Jago, whatever you suggest, ('let me know in the comment section...') the answer is: 'Yes, I'm interested; no objections' lol
Why?, Why must this channel be so underrated?!
I too was thinking of the wonderful post office underground. Has any other city in the world ever had such a thing? all dug by hand. connecting post office and railway stations. And it was driverless. Completely automated. Unfortunately it has been reduced to a tourist pay-to-ride sentimental journey for urban trainspotters and off-beat explorers. Rumble gently through the dark tunnels in tiny seats with plexiglass covers, on the wagons that used to transport the mail carts. Now someone sits at the front. The post moves mostly by lorry now. dock to dock. ahhh that's austerity for you!
I believe they tried something similar in Chicago.
Widened Lines? Ray Street Gridiron? Yes, please!!!
I wonder why this plan is not more widely known about. But rather more I wonder just how many tracks would have been needed on that new circle line to absorb the passenger flows of Victoria, Waterloo, London Bridge....
Great video Jago! A video about the widened line through Barbican would be great! As you mentioned goods lines, it would be really interesting to learn about the freight lines that run through/around London. I've seen freight passing through Barking and along the Overground stretch (i.e. on the Barking - Gospel Oak line), and even along the London Tilbury and Southend line at times... There's also a railway (possibly a freight line) way over in West London that runs under the elevated part of the Piccadilly Line (between Boston Manor - Osterley - Hounslow east? - ), so it would be really interesting to learn about these too.
Anyway - I know that you really busy, but just some thoughts here. Thanks very much for the great videos! 👏🏾❤❤🌟👌
At this point you already know we want to know about the widened lines
So this has piqued my curiosity.
If at all possible, can you do a vid on a potential central London freight line. Pros and cons, technical feasibility, how such a thing might function in modern London.
I sometimes feel like the collective attitude towards planning for the future is either unimaginative or futuristic. Whereas I imagine some lateral, somewhat radical thinking as to how one might reorganise a city might benefit from looking at certain elements of old tech from time to time.
It’s always baffled me how the Royal Mail underground train operation doesn’t exist anymore and how apparently no one has thought that might be a good idea for how to get a whole fleet of trucks and vans off the road…
Anyway, I’d be interested in a video on how a freight service on the underground might work practically.
I’d also be interested in something on the mail train too - come to think of it!
Love your content.
Another piece of London railway history I now know thanks to you! A video on the Widened Lines would be great, by the way.
Fascinating, I dread imagine the cost of sending even London Bridge station underground, never mind all the lines from Bermondsey through it to Charing Cross etc! Of course the one line which WAS sent underground was the line north of Blackfriars to Holborn Viaduct, but this had the benefit of releasing valuable land in the City, whereas the same can't really be said about Bermondsey and Southwark in the 1940s 😁
Those areas were where the docks were, lots of smalls traffic which I think was considered would carry on, hence the freight plan, it would have made sense. what was the game changer in freight was the adoption of the ISO container, which is great for distance flows, but needs lots of delivery trucks for its contents.
Great videos looking at how we ended with our transport infrastructure we have today. You mentioned congestion on the roads. I wondered if you would like to share your vision of what transport might look like in a carbon neutral world of the future and how we might get there. Trains are a great mass transit but how do you get people safely to the trains?
Somewhat unpopular opinion: It won't include any of the following:
Hyperloop
Maglev
Domestic Airplanes
Having stations and/or tram stops in walking distance would be a start, at least for urban areas and towns/villages that have a line through them or near enough. Dr. Beeching really didn’t do anyone any favours in that regard.
A few ideas came to mind:
- Buses could be a start, perhaps? Preferably running along routes that were transit-oriented/dedicated (signalised intersections, right of way, etc.)
- Bicycles, with much the same idea (of dedicated paths and signalling to allow relatively quick, non-stop travel to the stations)
Admittedly, this boils down to "do what the Dutch are doing", really, but it does look to be the right idea vis-a-vis encouraging last mile trips to stations that might be too far for walking _without_ the car.
Also, @Master Trams, Chris was talking about getting people to trains vs the types of technology to replace the current stuff. I'm also of the mind that the new tech's not that necessary and trying to replace the railways with them would maybe defeat the purpose of, say, reducing carbon footprint (you'd need a lot of resources to reconstruct the system from scratch, after all)
@@leongkinwai9709 yes, busses and lightweight personal transit options is what I'm thinking. Cars will always have a high carbon footprint because of their production and take up a lot of space. With LTNs and safe routes free from cars would enable bicycles, mobility scooters, e-scooters and any futuristic miniature cars to be used together safely for local trips. Perhaps family sized driverless taxis on set routes too but pricing would be key to ensure low carbon and low pollution options are most popular.
@@leongkinwai9709 Which is exactly why I said the future wouldn't include any of these pieces of new tech... And you say buses... Are trams out of the question then in your mind?
Crossrail is perfectly capable of being used for freight, so long as the locomotives are electric, not diesel.
I must admit an underground freight only line would be very interesting.
I would suspect that it would have to be built around containerisation, but that would make the freight handling facilities really easy.
The question would be is how automated would it be? Would it be basically one huge city wide underground baggage handling system....
Anyone else getting Half-Life Metro vibes?
It might be interesting to study a dedicated container system for garbage removal. Lots of discussion about freight delivery into the city - how about getting the bad stuff out. Maybe fill up some disused tunnels with garbage.
Interested outsider !
Widened lines video? Yes please.
Happy New Year, Jago.
fascinating.
Obligatory widened lines shout!
G'morning, Jago. You've hit 80K subs since I last noticed!
Great video. I wonder if they should resurrect the Royal Mail underground to take parcels and deliveries - the number of deliveries these days has skyrocketed!
A few seconds in I thought Ah Abercrombie Report. But I was wrong. Him and his kind did a lot of this- in their case- far sighted short sighted planning stuff, but I think that was a lot later, about 1949 I think, and referred to the UK. I did stumble on a history of regeneration reports in a charity shop. Brutalist is just one word you could use. It made scary reading as it was all about chopping up (Edinburgh in this case) and putting bloody great motorway type ring roads in the heart of what's now a world heritage site totally spoiling the bits the tourists love, but they had their way elsewhere.
Any history here is concise and interesting, so widened lines would be fine by me.
Another excellent piece of microhistory I didn't know about. Thank you! Also shout out to the original Network SouthEast clock at 5:36!
Those plans sound overcomplicated and slightly insane. Not to mention a tad redundant. Anyway, the money men would of probably killed it sooner or later like they did with the Ringways project
I agree - there doesn't seem to be a single sensible route in the plan! It isn't even a pipe-dream but more of a pipe-nightmare, and a loopy one at that …
There is plenty of freight on the rails in London, though notparticularlycentral.
Much of the Overground shares its routes with freight traffic for example.
I too wish to have my knowledge "widened" please. En passant, was that a first for a Pendolino on one of your videos at 5:20?
Interesting to speculate how a freight loop might have worked. I wonder what unique infrastructure systems might have developed, perhaps underground hubs connecting to the basements of city centre businesses.
Quite often i think they should just have a tunnel boring machine running all the time, congestion will always be a problem and the tunnels would always have a use, whether for pedestrian/bike traffic, or vehicular/light train.
Thanks so much Jago, and wishing you well for 2021. I love how your mind works picking subjects to look at, some I know of (vaguely), others, like this, a complete eye-opener. Keep up the good work.
Lots must agree with me, looking at the rate your subs are growing.
And yes, I always want to learn more.
I do honestly think that the loop through Waterloo, Charing Cross, Victoria and Cannon Street could defo save maybe a couple of operators instead of terminating at London Bridge and the other stations to instead use the loop to save the turnaround time. Just a much bigger version of the Kennington Loop?
🆘 “ I wont even be here “ said the hide and seek champion 💥