The Near East: The OLDEST Creation Myths and their ORIGIN
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Join us on a journey through the fascinating creation myths of the Near East. From Sumer to Greece, we'll explore the diverse ways in which ancient cultures imagined the origins of the universe and the emergence of life. Along the way, we'll encounter gods and goddesses, epic battles, and cosmic cataclysms, as well as striking parallels and divergences between different traditions. Through a comparative analysis of texts, iconography, and archaeological evidence, we'll gain new insights into the rich and complex worldviews of the ancient Near East and their enduring impact on human culture. Whether you're a mythology enthusiast, a history buff, or simply curious about the mysteries of the cosmos, you won't want to miss this exciting adventure into the depths of the human imagination.
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References:
► Map: Expansion of farming in western Eurasia, 9600 - 4000 cal BC (update vers. 2021.2)
►The Fifth Tablet of the Enuma Elis, by Landsberger and Kinnier Wilson, from the Journal of Near Eastern Studies (July 1961)
►Puhvel, Jaan. Comparative Mythology.
Chapters
==================
0:00 Introduction
2:45 Why is there a supreme god?
5:23 The Babylonian Creation Myth
7:37 The Creation Myth of Dunnu
8:59 The Hittite Creation Myth
12:29 What do these Creation Myths tell us?
15:13 Greek Creation Myth (Hesiod)
18:51 The Common Enemy
23:08 Greek/Phoenician Creation Myth
26:30 Iranian Book of Kings and conclusion
Mr. White. I cannot express How much i apreciate your work. I was searching for such material for a longe time.
Thank you so much for your kind words, they are appreciated.
Same!
As a side issue, I understand the reductionism necessary to find the essential elements and commonalities between these stories and create the family tree/history of the tales. What increasingly interests me these days is the differences and what those difference may tell us about the time, the place, the society and how those people used these differences to navigate their worlds. The differences are important, too. Any chance of some vids around this theme?
My next video will hopefully be about this, it depends on my research commitments.
@@Crecganford Well done, that chap. Thanks, matey. Keep up the good work.
One detail concerning what you say: As far as I know Marduk was not in Sumerian Myths. He appeared later as the patron God of a city in Akkadian or Assyrio-Babilonic time, and as that city ruled for a time, Marduk evolved into the greatest god. But I'm not 100% sure on this.
There is no doubt that the story of creation involved the Turkish/Boguxkoi/Gobekli Tepe and seems to involve the later cultures up to the Babylonians, centered around how the first children of Adam and Eve justified matricidal patricidal, incest and the rest of perversion, while the explanation fail to make end meet. The mention of Dilmun was interesting but inconclusive, yet Biblical account with the Jewish scripture was at the center of this dilemma, which has no solution.
@Crecganford indouropian languages is not true
I found many similarities between Sumirian language and kurdish language
Mr. White, you are an absolute joy to listen to. Thank you so much for expanding my horizons and motivating me to go out and read some of the first-hand sources and research papers you mention. And your voice/accent is so soothing that at times I listen to you just to relax and find comfort 😊 Thank you for all you do for this Crecganford community!
Thank you so much for your very kind words, they are appreciated.
I was about to throw a tantrum when I saw how few likes this video had. Then I saw when it was posted and it made sense. I'll do my part in sharing. Great video!
Thank you so much.
I've been thinking about this topic SO MUCH recently. Very glad to see you doing a video on it, your thoughts on topics are greatly respected by me. I'm happy to see you reaching many of the same conclusions.
Thank you for your kind words.
one of the best youtube channel. quality is raw material found here. tons of information to learn and study. thank god, here is a *sanctuary* away from tiktok meaningless vids
Thank you.
As always ❤️❤️❤️ Thank you and much appreciation for EVERYTHING you do and share!
Thank you for your kind words.
Excellent video. Love the use of maps
Thank you.
I always love exploring creation myths and this channel makes it especially enjoyable
Excellent video! I cannot wait for more of your research. I can tell you put a LOT of hours into this video. Thank you.
Thank you for all your support, and yes, I’ve been talking about putting this together for weeks.
So based, this is a sweet topic to get a hold of. Often when I get into these discussions people like to get hooked on the details. I'm not saying the gods are all the same, but the myths are mythic for a reason!!!!!
I love your videos, thank you so much
And thank you for watching them.
I've learned a lot on this channel since I found it a few months ago but this one really sticks out. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Ok, i love the content, these especially, while some of the most complex are my favorites, really thanks.
A lot to digest in this video. Glad I’ve got a strong cup of tea.
Unexpectedly, iv come to adore this channels content, you sir are a legend, thankyou for sharing and for doing all the hard work for us 🌻
Thank you so much, I appreciate your kind words.
This idea was put forth by Hislop in the 1800s, heavily denounced by powers that be. To me it seems obvious if you just draw a timeline. Thanks for your work!
Found your channel through Mythvision and glad I did! Great work, thank you!
Thank you.
Most interesting to say the least good sir
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Such a dynastic succession can also be seen in Rig Vedic Verses where Indra(The Storm God & a counterpart of El/baal) becoming more and more powerful, so his father Tvayastr becomes worried about that and then Indra (probably)Kills him. Also, Tvayastru was a Sky God, his wife an Earth Goddess, and Indra started to grow in size so much so that he separated Sky and Earth from each other.
My Mythographer Magus....great content, love the deep knowledge and explanations and your voice is both resonant and calming....gonna grab a cuppa and enjoy the erudite storytelling. Cheers!
Thank you.
Amazing work. I’m addicted please make more haha
I will, thank you.
Thanks you very much for these details and your work.
It's really important to give facts a place, and to say when we don't know (yet or won't be able to know for any reason, such as corrupt material).
It's not an easy task in a, still, religious world...
I LOVE the inclusion of more localized myth variations. Since graduating university I don’t have as easy access to those types of resources anymore.
Thank you for the research you have commited yourself to. Your videos are the highlight of my day
Thank you fro your kind words, they are very much appreciated.
You are my favorite youtuber.
Thank you so much.
I wonder if the original ~8k year old myth is local to the Near East or if it also came from somewhere else, since prior to the that time, there has been a lot of migration into the Middle East from all sorts of diverse cultures from very far away.
We do see some parts of it are older, but some are created by agricultural farmers.
In Gobekli Tepe we can see american animals
Marduk first appears as a Sumerian god and is the son of Enki. It's interesting that the Sumerian Marduk is a villain rather than a hero who is later known as Zeus in Greek mythology, also a Hero. His conflict in Sumerian mythology is also with his father and uncle, Enki and Enlil. I also noticed that there seem to be some similarities between between the god of Olympus and the fallen angels of the old testament, for example, the ability to shapeshift into different forms, linked to a mountain, having sex with human women whose children were heroes of renown.
Yep, thems be the pesky Christians desperate to convert the pagans around them
Amazing In depth video
Excellent video. Well presented. Loved the content... 👍.... yes.... subscribed ✔
Thank you.
Aryan mythology, and by extension European mythology, Hittites and Mitanni (Aryans, Europoids) invaded Near East during the Bronze Age, this is the connection between these creation myths.
It's not quite as simple as that, but the influx of Indo-European cultural influence did significantly impact the myths. I will do a proper analysis of this early next year as it is a deep and complex subject.
Excellent! I'd love to hear your take on Ptah.
Thank you, Jon ! This channel is consistently a joy! I'm more familiar with Greek myths, so as I'm listening, I'm thinking your narration sounds like a Greek Tragedy 😀. Thank you again for all of the work and love you put into these.
And thank you for watching.
More on the Hellenic myths please!
Thank you for all the detailed research you put into these. It helps me see my own path through the similarities from antiquities material.
IMHO. I see two templates in antiquity which frame everyone's mythologies as well as religions. I see them all start with a creation myth. Till their world goes bad or they need to reclaim their kingdom, destroy the old, etc. Then a monomyth variation begins in a network of monomyth to monomyth. Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Babylonian epics, Greek, Roman, Christian and more all share those two templates, then create analogous outward looking, supernatural stories for the masses and held in genre that has a different effect on the population.
Nice new library 📚 ❤
Thank you.
You are awesome storyteller and a specialist in mythology and religions. I’m listening to your videos at least three times each so it’s sinks in 😂 if you could develop some kind of visual collage with images, it would be only through your advantage.🧐🧐
Thank you. Images are so hard to find which are relevant and accurate, but I am working on something which is still probably a year away that may help.
@@Crecganford I was born few miles away from one of the oldest archaeological sites in central Russia (Saratov) near Volga river where teenage boys sacrificed their dogs 18,000 years ago and ate them the tradition migrated to Greece and Sparta and it was called KUROS it’s when parents kick out teenage boy from the house to go and fend in the woods for himself, steal and hunt to survive …later my ancestors invaded Western Europe and brought into European language with them, kill all the men and use women to reproduce as the latest genetic data shows… I’m sorry to point it out again, but Europe is just the province of Asia, and nothing else. 🙀 there is a movie by Japanese film director Kurosawa called “Dersu Uzalla” in this movie they are trying to bring a possible ancient Proto- Indo European language used in Syberia in the spoken language off Uzalla. But in my opinion, it’s a longshot.
This video is really relevant for me right now because I have been working on the creation myth for the gods in one of my stories. The story is a fantasy world with origin starting on Earth before transitioning to an "otherworld". In the story, all gods exist though the stories about them weren't always recorded accurately. No god created humans but rather it was human belief that created the gods. For my story, I intend to create a full pantheon of gods that are worshipped in my otherworld. This pantheon will originate on Earth and the otherworld will be created from the body of a killed god similar to Ymir in Norse myth or Tiamat from Mesopotamian. After the otherworld is created is when the new generation of gods will be born.
Since this pantheon will originate from Earth, I want to include some of the tropes found in European religions. However, since I am developing this pantheon for a fantasy story where the society is predominately made up of magic users, I want the head of the pantheon to be a goddess of magic similar to Hecate, Isis, and Freya. This would mean the sky father of the pantheon is demoted to a smaller position and it would break the succession of grandfather > father > son that is common in these myths. My original idea only had two generations of gods, but now I'm rethinking that to keep it as three.
What is difficult about this project is referencing the tropes found in European and Near East religions while also creating a pantheon that reflects the magic inclined culture I have created for the story.
That would make a really cool Dungeons & Dragons campaign setting
Excellent lecture.
Thank you.
Well done Sir!!
Doctoral level understanding yet simplistically explained for the uninitiated!
You do immeasurably great work!
I have always inherently believed in a commonality among ancient religions to present and you succinctly bring them all together.
Again, amazing work!
Thank you for your kind words.
Imagination is everything
Очень рад, что на этом канале поддерживаются русские субтитры. Благодаря этому я вижу, что автор заинтересован в массовой аудитории со всего мира, а не только с англоговорящих стран.
Is not Russia banned RUclips then how you are watching?
@@arpanmandal7244 Why should Russians be banned from RUclips? People haven't done anything to infringe on their freedom.
@@javikus I am saying isn't Russian government banned all Google products.
Thank you again! This definitely helps in my own lay research in Goidelic mythology. If Peter B. Ellis is onto something with his reconstruction, then the dichotomy of Danu and Domhnu seem to have origins in the Neolithic farmer creation myth.
I’m very curious if you will talk about the eight brothers that the Rees brothers discussed and their link between Eremon’s Milesians and Aryaman’s Adityas.
Danna is scotia/King Akenatans daughter with Nefrititi.
Tengri is another analog of Zeus.
Also a fun thing to poke around is pronunciations. Jupiter used to be Zuptier. Jesus would then be Zezuz, Zeus. Thats why he said he was part of the holy trinity and he calls himself the son of God because he believed he was a devaputta( son of god) after visiting Tibet. Virūpakkha to be exact. Lord of the naga.
*As rome drove the snakes from Ireland*
Thank you so much for this fascinating content again!
Great video, I personally don’t think this creation myth inspired the proto I ndo European creation myth. I think a more ancient Anatolian myth did and this myth was introduced into Greek, Roman and Hittite later on.
It didn't inspire it, however it did influence aspects of it.
I am wondering if Typhon was a description of Mt. Etna erupting very violently. The cutting off of the feet could be the caldera collapsing after blowing out. The plume would indeed reach to the heavens. Tidal wave could have reached the shore of Turkey easily. When volcanos erupt lighting is often generated in the plume. I need to look up the history of when Etna has erupted. Wasn't there a telling of Osiris fighting a primordial being like this too? Also with snake iconography.
Can you fix gaps in your audio, love your videos
So: the various creation myths variably include castration, cutting in half and hamstringing, which might all appear to be variations on physical damage that incapacitates a deity, though not necessarily permanently. NOR does it prevent a subsequent rebirth / genesis / birth event. A deity eating children is a reflection of teeth, which represent the jagged sickle, the earliest examples of which were sharp flints embedded in a wooden shaft, like teeth in a jaw-bone (Samson wielding the jaw-bone of an ass?).
In some ancient stories a leg injury inducing a limp is a bowdlerised version of castration, representing a temporary or permanent inability to reproduce, also a metaphor for harvest failure owing to a ''lame'' leader (c.f. the Winter King myth).
Castration & cutting in two are damage that occurs centrally to the body, which brings me, finally, to Longinus stabbing Jesus IN THE SIDE with his spear, despite which, three days later Jesus rises from the dead, thus mirroring the ancient castration / rebirth cycle.
It may be, considering the authors of the New Testament were Greek, and knew of the Greek myths, and the gospels are very much a rehash of many of motifs from those Greek myths.
@@Crecganford Indeed, though the thrust of my comment is that there is a direct correlation between the details of the death of Jesus and the earliest recorded Creation Myths in terms of generative damage and resurrection, and not just with the ''recent'' Greek connection.
This is such a great content. I love listening to this research material. I have a question concerning this matters, can we also find additional clues by extending the compared mythology approach with compared astonomy, as it my contain an ancient source of knowledge for retracing some deities or myths. In any case thank you for your work, its always a pleasure to listen to your videos.
I would give the last fifty years of my life to be able to go back and hear the first telling of these stories. Well maybe to hear all the significant transformations too
I just discovered this amazing channel. Could you cover the Japanese myths? Especially izanagi and izanami stirring the waters with a spear to create land? Is it related tothe earth diver?and couldyou explain the origins o the good samaritan myth? Thank you so much fpr your work!
I may cover Japan in the future, it is not in my field of expertise, but I am expanding my knowledge through independent research over time.
Something that was not mentioned in this informative video is that Philo of Byblos was influenced by an earlier Phoenician author named Sanchuniathon.
Eusebius quotes Porphyry as stating that Sanchuniathon of Berytus (Beirut) wrote the truest history because he obtained records from earlier sources and Egyptian priests, that Sanchuniathon dedicated his history to Abibalus (Abibaal) king of Berytus, the date of this writing being before the Trojan War (around 1200 BCE), possibly approaching the time of Moses.
Sanchuniathon claims to have based his work on sacred lore deciphered from mystic inscriptions on the pillars in the Phoenician temples, lore which exposed the truth, later embellished by allegories and myths, that the gods were originally human beings who accomplished great deeds and who came to be worshipped after their deaths, which seems to be related to explanations from the doctrine of Euhemerism.
In this respect this one finds more affinity with the claims of the phylogeneticists and a paleolithic origin. See: what could dismantle the premisse of a late mesopotamian origin for the Kingship in Heaven is the occurrence of a similar if not the same motif in the Aztect Legend of the Five Suns. Compare:
0 (1) > Ouranós (2) > Krónos (3) > Zéus (4) > (Typhō̂n) > Zéus (5) [GREECE]
Alalu (1) > Anu (2) > Kumarbi (3) > Tešub (4) > (Ullikummi) > Tešub (5) [ANATOLIA]
Kayūmart̠ (1) > Hūšang (2) > Tahmūrat̠ (3) > Ǧamšīd (4) > (Zahāk) > Farīdūn (5) [PERSIA]
Tezcatlipōca (1) > Quetzalcōātl (2) > Tlāloc (3) > Chālchiuhtlicuē (4) > () > Huītzilōpōchtli (5) [MEXICO]
We have a monstrous usurper - in all but the american sample - that does not count as part of the succession, and with the return of the stormgod in the hellenic and hurrian versions counting as the emergence of a fifth king.
The influence is so clear Especially on Greek Mythology. like the story of hades and Persephone comes from Mesopotamia in its origin.
This is so interesting. I wish it had gone a little further and mentioned if these myths influence the Celts or Norse.
This will come with time, as I try to keep my videos to around 30 minutes. I may even be able to talk about this in my next video.
and slavs :D same story
@@Crecganford That would be wonderful. Thank you. I love your videos.
Unrelated to the topic, here is one piece of information that maybe attract your attention.
It's about the perfect overlap between the Vedic way of calculating time and astrophysics, i.e. the cycle of the movement of our planet.
It is generally known that modern science recognizes a third axis along which the earth moves, which is called the precession of the equinoxes or Plato's year, or Great Year, and which lasts 25920 years.
When it is divided by 12, that is, the number of constellations towards which the central axis of the earth tilts, we get a period of 2160 years per constellation (time period in the zodiac sign). So, roughly, from 139 BC to 2021 AD, we were in the Age of Pisces (Christians used fish as a symbol of the new age), from 2299 BC to 138 we were in the age of Aries, from 4459 BC to 2298 BC we were in the age of the Taurus (from the end of that era is the famous sculpture of Mithra killing the bull), ... and and so on.
On the other hand, we have the existence of two formalized traditions with different interpretations of cosmic time, the followers of Asuras and the followers of Devas. That is, Two variations of Surya Siddhanta: The first Mayasura with Conjunction in Aries FEB 22. 6778 BC and second Latadeva with Conjunction in Pisces 17/18. FEB. 3101 BC.
According to the second Latadeva tradition, the Maha yuga lasts for 4.320.000 years and is divided into four periods, each twice shorter than the previous one. Satya yuga lasts 1.728.000 years, Treta Yuga lasts 1.296.000, Dvapa yuga lasts 864.000 years and Kali yuga lasts 432.000 years.
If we take any of those numbers and try to divide them by the previously mentioned length duration of the time period of one zodiac sign (2160 years) we get whole numbers, not decimal numbers as would be normal to expect. And so:
Kali yuga in 432000 years contains exactly 200 such periods of zodiac signs
Dvapa yuga in 864000 years contains exactly 400 such periods of zodiac signs
Treta Yuga in 1296000 years contains exactly 600 such periods of the zodiac signs
Satya yuga in 1728000 years contains exactly 800 periods of such zodiac signs
Maha yuga thus lasts exactly 2000 periods of the zodiac signs.
The chance that it's just a coincidence is less than 0.05 percent.
Conclusion is that our ancestors were familiar with the precession of the equinoxes from at least 31,044 BC, which is how long it took them to follow only one full precession cycle.
I saw in one of your videos the Dregree you achieved at University but cannot find it again to look into it. Can you please let me know what was the title of your Degree? I'm interested in possibly persuing the same.
I find it fascinating how people who did not have the scientific tools to understand their world created stories that brought a sense of order to the world and then passed those stories on and modified them to better fit their society and physical environment. No great sea to place your myth inside, invent a great flood.
We have been taught to look up. MY NECK HURTS. The true puzzle is here right now. The time we spent underground is denied
Hello!! Ive been a fan of your videos for so long, and i adore how deep you research into all kinds of mythology and folklore. I wanted to ask what are some reoccuring themes that you find in myths all over the world ive compiled some abstract themes ive found in most religions
The world was created in an act of self sacrifice, or the sun, life itself
A being is born as the world is, either becomes the parent of the king of the gods or grandparent.
There often is a flood that purges evil.
There is some form of death and either rebirth or permanent death which is often for some being of the sky. Sun gods, stars, etc.
The heaven and the earth are two sides of the same coin.
There is normally some kind of prometheus who comes bearing gifts to humans
I wanted to ask your views and im planning on working on a project, feel free to tell me what you agree or disagree with but i hope you read this and enjoy!
Thank you for watching. I do talk about many of these things in my other videos, and a video I will release within the next month will cover some of this when talking about a specific book on mythology, as to reply to this specifically would take a lot of time I just do not have.
@Crecganford that is totally ok i completely understand!! You are like a mythology icon to me. i do have a secondary question regarding the library video, what would you recommend as good starting books or good sources for reference. I have bulfinches and grimms, but yeah, sorry if you also do not have time for that but thank you for the first reply, i hope you have an amazing day
I hope the Hopi are right about the earth guardian saving the planet from the deterioration we've triggered
Red Hair amongst Europeans having originated in the Middle East is fascinating. Especially given it’s historical spread and current places of dominance. One could postulate that the very early spread of Farming from the Middle East into Europe and with it the Megalithic Buildings was the origin point. The commonality of particular megalithic buildings in form, function, building methodology and what would appear to be a system of measurement would likewise seem to add some credence to this idea. That they were sailors would also explain how and why there are genetic connections between Europe, the Middle East and Native Americans on the East Coast of North America ranging back much further than Columbus or the Vikings as well. It would also explain the legends of Red Headed Giants in the Americas. And potentially how the Vikings made it here. Given that there are also tales of the Irish possibly knowing of this land prior to Columbus and the Vikings, which given their having inhabited Iceland prior to the Vikings again seems plausible (perhaps think upon Avalon?). And why there is plausible evidence of Phoenician contact and definite evidence of Egyptian contact either directly or indirectly with the Americas. How any of that relates to this video is a matter of interpretation and debate.
Hey man, I like the video. But I noticed that you need to really lower your bass level in the audio, it gets really muddled sometimes and difficult to hear because of the excessive bassines
Thanks for the feedback, I'll see what I can change.
Was the city of Beirut named after the goddess or was that just a coincidence seeing that Bêrūt also means "The Wells"?
Thank you for the video!
It is usual for places to be names after the god, although for this specific place I do not know the answer for certain.
@@Crecganford 0⁰😊
If you are from Cregganford.,and with that accent it's quite possible I do t know how I've missed you. I would be right up for a decent Convo. Love your content.
Gonna need a connectivity tree
I believe all of them! Only so I can get 7 holy days off work each week
More like this please. Especially if there are any recent translation papers.
Typhon, the hundred snake heads being? Probably the remaining church of the same cult as Medusa, the Gorgon, who is slayed later by the son of Zeus. Whose grandson then burns the heads off the hydra, also probably the symbol of the matriarchal churches. The question arising, what role did Mopsus play in this?
Mopsus was the name of one of two famous seers in Greek mythology; his rival being Calchas. A historical or legendary Mopsos or Mukšuš may have been the founder of a house in power at widespread sites in the coastal plains of Pamphylia and Cilicia
Very interesting point on Okeanos as the origin of the gods. I used to cite that as proof of near eastern influences. But while that is true, a few lines later in the Iliad Hera’s statement that Okeanos and Tethys are the origin of gods is corrected. My final conclusion on that is that Homer deliberately addresses his audiences doubts about the influence of near eastern myth on greek by presenting it as a falsity held by Hera. But then she is reminded of the true theogony. It seems Homer is trying to divert attention from near eastern influences in an attempt to demonstrate Greek originality. What do u think?
❤
Thanks for this nice video, really appreciate it. By the way, just wondering if I can grab coffee instead of tea? 😕
Of course, any warm beverage is welcome.
@@Crecganford cheers.
Is it fair to say that these parallels like with Kronus, El, and Kumarbi can be applied in some respects to underworld myths as well. I am thinking in terms of Ereshkigal, Persephone, and possibly Hel. I'm probably stretching it with Hel given that she is likely from a non Indo-European source co-opted into later Norse mythology, but I am curious.
I have made a couple of videos on the subject of the Underworld if you haven't seen them, although I will make a video specifically on "Journeys to the Underworld".
I have wondered if the stories of Ereshkigal and Persephone are tied in some way to the network of ancient underground tunnels in Cappadocia, Turkey, where people carve their houses out of the rock. The tunnels have been there since antiquity. Archeologist have not yet found a way to date them unless it is very recent.
Ooh I was just researching gaia and had to check if you had any content on it, I don’t know why I have sudden interest in creation myths etc but I’m glad your making the content for us Also something else, when I’m watching your videos I kind of get confused by the chronology of the stories, could you perhaps put a caption on or something just saying the estimated date of the myth your discussing, maybe it will only help me 😅
I do mention dates, but there maybe a better way to state it, I'll have a ponder.
I'd like to note that in Antiquity there was no West and East or European unity or North and South. Ancient cultures were related and interconnected. The general primary center of ancient culture was located in city states scattered around the Mediterranean region and (West) Asia.
It is noticeable that several ancient religions or cultures were interrelated and had common origins. These religions and the related ancient stories and mythologies had their origins in the ancient Near East, and also had another related ancient Indian, Hindu or so-called Indo-European source.
The ancient Indians had historical interactions with the ancient Persians in terms of cultural exchanges and political influence, language, religion, spirituality, notably during the Achaemenid empire. The ancient Greeks interacted with neighboring cultures like ancient Phoenicia, Persia, Egypt, Mesopotamia and India, which is reflected among other things by the campaigns of Alexander the Great in India and elsewhere.
The ancient practices, beliefs, ideas and religions spread to the entire Mediterranean region and to the south of Europe, to Greece and Italy. Plausibly these ancient religions, stories and practices also spread with some modifications to the north and to other parts of Europe through a process of gradual cultural diffusion.
Approximately 10 minutes in and can alalready recognise things which will become part of Greek mythology.
Confirmed 15 minutes in
I'm too old to see Antarctica melt so let's discuss the time we spent under ground. We don't have to wait for the caves and tunnels to melt and more recent too
I can't help thinking that god-origin myths, such as discussed, are hints/references(?!) of the worship of an original 'vague' god which is then supplanted by successions of offspring-gods. Could this repeated sequence be describing the subsequent absorptions of other gods due to mixing/trading/movement between various tribes in that geographic area through prehistory?
Could be a useful tool if is a sound proposition - and then if enough info can be pooled/discovered
I’m not sure it is, and as I mention, it is more of a way of providing a “historical/divine” background for any ruling deity, for if it were we should be able to find examples where we see this happens, and we don’t.
If we know that Iliad events contain formed myths alredy and despite being writtnen in 8th century, events adress 13th cantury b.c. is it possible to myths arrive in Greece then? Isn't there any evidance in Mykken ruins like painting that depict some gods alredy? Would be strange to have own gods and then readjust storied to 'better version from east' in 8th century :D
I have talked about some of this earlier migration in other videos, such as my video on Venus.
This depends principally on the claim that the Hittite story was translated from Hurrian. It's not clear why that conclusion of attributing the story to Hurrian was made. Was there an actual Hurrian text discovered? I would have appreciated the argument for Hurrian origins to be laid out explicitly, as it's so critical here.
The easiest way (without going into deep academia) is to look for the "Bogazköy Archive" and their it will state that many texts from the Hittite are Hurrian.
El....the god mentioned in the Bible. Interesting.
You have to add, "or a cup of coffee." I don't like tea.
He can't do that, he's British.
@@the_mowron Sorry, I forgot the British National drink is tea - an import from Asia. But, before they became tea drinkers, they drank more coffee, imported from Africa and the Middle East. And, before the importation of coffee, they drank beer and ale. So, to be truly British, we should be having a beer or mead.
I'm happy if you drink a coffee, but I am fond of tea.
@@Crecganford I love the whole idea of the channel because I'm obsessed with origins. The origin of everything. I'd suggest we all be OG and drink a very weak brew of any sort. It's morning when I watch your videos, so, that's why I'm drinking coffee. I drink infrequently, so, even if I waited until evening, I might now want my Alexander Keith's. Great Canadian beer. I want to start making mead for health and can make it weak. There's a channel where a guy made some. Also, I'm going to be making my own cider for everything health....! It cures athlete's foot, believe it or not. Apple Cider Vinegar is a gift from the Gods. This is why I love the origins of myth because food and beverage, and farming are all through it. Natural medicines are the original medicines. If you want to fight off a nasty virus.... VITAMIN DDDDDDD! Fish are great, but find natural sources... loooook up. The Sun. Great lessons on this channel. I love history so this is my jam. and toast. but not tea,.
Thank you, I can do the tea cup, mug, but I'm used to the American ice tea / sweet tea with lemon juice, gallon making pitcher person. However I'm actually civilized.
Sounds like some egyptian stories, some hindu stories with all the castrations. Also sounds like the Rock Boy story from the North American Natives
Something occurred to me whilst watching your video; which was astonishingly great btw! Three things:
1. You didn't mention Egyptian creation myth, but there is a castration there as well. I wonder if it's linked in any way with middle eastern myth?
2. Is god El linked to Hebrew God in any way (Elohim)?
3. Could the Jewish custom of circumcision as a sign of their people having a covenant with God, be linked to these more ancient beliefs? Maybe rendering them unlikely to ever challenge God's position... "Freud believed that circumcision allows senior men to constrain the incestuous desires of their juniors, and mediates the tension inherent in the father-son relationship and generational succession. Youth are symbolically castrated, or feminized, but also blessed with masculine fruitfulness." (Quote from Wikipedia; originally: Mark EW (2003). The Covenant of Circumcision: New Perspectives on an Ancient Jewish Rite (illustrated ed.). University Press of New England. p. 44. ISBN 1584653078.)
Thank you for your thoughts!
Yes, Egypt does, but unfortunately it is not my area of expertise so I rarely go deep into its mythology, and I do believe El and Elohim are linked. Circumcision is a whole different topic which would require a separate video!
In Egyptian religious culture circumcision existed
It might be worth looking into the chinese Fuxi & Nüwa myth.
It very much resembles some sumerian creation of humans und flood myths. As a side note: Both are depicted as semi-human / snake entities similar to the sumerian god Enki.
I wonder if this influence from the near east was an early progenetor of euhemerisation, in that originally in mycanaen Greece (or possibly earlier), Poseidon was the ruler of the Greek pantheon. Interesting video as always!
what are the 8 books behind you that are brown/tan? I can make out some but I am very curious because I may seek to purchase that set
They are Fitzgerald's Myth and Legends.
@@Crecganford The best comparison I found looking them up is published by the Gresham Publishing Company; Moncrieff, Mackenzie, Squire--are these the same ones?
I answered my own Q by researching it more. I should have watched your video you seem to have posted about your library to maybe see them--I just came from MythVision's video interview you had from him and was unaware that you did a video about your library. The religious section of my library is just of 35 books, ranging from topics like the Caduceus, to mythologies by Joseph Campbell, to books by Craig A Evans, Bart Ehrman & Joseph Bowen. I can't imagine owning 500+.
I appreciate academically the size of statement and the presumptive "logic" applied, but where better than the comments section?
I'm absolutely fascinated with the evolving narrative of nautral science against the predictive mathematical physical models proposed. It isn't without caution that I suggest there's a great syncretism in science itself and how that narrative develops (and used to be told if you reverse time to demonstrate this perspective).
It's my opening point because maybe it's some advanced pareidolia, maybe it isn't: Once you start substituting proper nouns out of the shared creation myths it begins to resemble the mathematically described origin of time a second act of creation beyond the big bang around the Kronos "generation" of the family tree. There are similarities to the forging of elements within stars and the expulsion of these new elements a generation of stars that eats up hydrogen and helium then spews out more elements, exactly as physicians might explain, not only was there a pre-time, and a pre-light, but a pre-atomic and then star forming age.
The incest and annihilation of subatomic particles in the manufacture of say electrons from quarks etc etc.
Now IF this syncretic tale were drawn backwards and extrapolated - based on my limited knowledge of all these subjects - there does exist an explanation that involves a retelling of someone else's science that got lost into superstition awaiting the advent of writing to crystalise the closest resembling versions... so, happy cogitating to you all.
whilst I'm here it extends that the overlapping hatted of serpentine creatures is coupled with a constant frustration with sine curves - representative of the enemy of the greatest knowledgable mathematicians & astronomers, the thinking then being that fellow wise ones would spot the analogue and infer this is a place of science they reeeeealy hate/respect/fear snakes 😅
I mist note here that in the anatolian myths the succession is not between fathers and sons rather kings and their cup-bearers
I love you! lol
The commonality of all of the creation and the flood myths is simply the original creation storyline passed down from Adam who walked in the garden with his recreator who then made from him The Woman.
After the flood the storyline is passed down from Noah himself and his sons Shem Ham and Japheth, 4 rivers and knowledge of the cosmos including the Creator.
Common language is scrambled to the sudden birth to the 70 nations and the creator gives them all up to be guided by the son's and they dispersed just like our linguistic mapping demonstrates from the mesopotamia.
The stories then adapted to the individual cultures
Read Eric Neumann
Because Indo-European truly originates in the Near East with haplogroup IJ (Bosnians, Danubian Civilization. So the religion resembles Norse/South Slavic. Hittite god Taur = Norse Thor
Every word associated with agriculture in Europe is of IE origin.
"Scythe"
"Plough"
"Wheat"
"Bread"
"Milk"
"Cattle"
"Wine"
"Mead"
"Wool"
"Axe"
All of these words are of Indo-European origin.. .There's simply no other way to explain this, other than the first farmers in the Middle East were the Indo-Europeans..
Your logic is flawed, as Indo-Europeans didn't appear until around 8,000 years ago, and the first farmers were 12,000 years ago... so unless the Indo-European invented a time machine your logic is a little flawed.
@Crecganford It's not logic , it's facts. The names "wheat" and "sickle" in Europe are Indo-European words.. That's means the Indo-Europeans history must be intertwined with this plant because they invented the word we use for it....They also must have invented the grain harvesting tool we now call a "Scythe" or "Sickle"...the same tool that appears in the archeological record going back to the very dawn of agriculture in the Near East...
Agreed, he's way off
These are all parables. So when they say someone got castrated they are describing a star which is the male principle turning into a planet which is the female principle bc after a star "dies" it goes up an octave and becomes a planet. The marrying in the family is basically describing a new star being created in the old octave after the star transitioned to the higher octave. Celestial royalty isn't into heavy incest. Super weird if anyone thought that lol
i wish this stuff was more epic
What are those brown books above your right shoulder? they are pretty!
Fitzgerald's Myth and Legend, brought from a Thrift Store for about $100.
IDK if it's only me but I'm signed into YT so i get e-mails and notifications when you post a new video. i did not receive one this time
i have unsubbed and re subbed. hopefully that sorts it.
it's 4 AM so I will save this to watch later
That is odd, I think RUclips is a little wonky.
thank you
Thanks for your videos. I appreciate seeing the similarities, but the causal relationships, if they are real at all, weren't explained here. Maybe there are books that go into greater detail? But, just because one came later and is slightly different doesn't tell us at all which was influenced by what. The origin for this mythology could just as easily have come from a lost source in a wild far-off place, first assimilated by the Greeks, who then influenced the Hittites but didn't record any of it in a lasting form until centuries later, and so the Greek version is the more ancient, despite our sources. That's just one in thousands of possibilities, and I don't get what makes you sure you know which came first, or which was influenced by the other.
I try to keep my videos to about 30 minutes in length, and so I will make others exploring different stories in greater detail.