I own one (RX8) and do all my own rebuilds myself. It's probably the easiest engine I've ever overhauled, just follow mazda's service manual for it, you can't go wrong. After tearing it down, it's astonishing how much development is left in it. Daft things, like the side intake ports that aren't cast smoothly into the chambers, so all the intake charge has to negotiate a 90-degree bend before it enters...why? The centre exhaust port that _for no reason_ has to share with the other rotor, make it twice the size? Nah, we'll make it _half it's size_ so only half the exhaust can get out through that side. Centre shaft bearings? Nah. Let's suspend the whole rotating assembly on two bearings that are an inch wide, so they're massively overloaded. That's like having a four-cylinder piston engine and only having the crankshaft running on the end bearings, all of that force is magnified and wears them out long before their time. Oh and the inherent problem of mounting the _single_ timing gear on one side of each rotor, so it constantly wants to twist the rotor sideways, slowly wearing it's bearings into a cone-shape. Use two timing gears per rotor, half width, with the bearing in between them so the rotor is now symmetrical and can centre itself as it spins...no rotor bearing issues any more. People have had great success with ceramic apex seals and the like, most of the rotor seals were designed in the 60's, half of them are put in at the factory backwards for god's sake. I wish I had the money to invest in developing this engine fully, Mazda did a lot but much of it is stuck in the past and handcuffed with patents..which is the problem.
@Dale Bob On no mate, much truth in what you've said there. Good read. I scrapped that stupid thermal pellet the first thing I did and plugged it so that it has consistent oil pressure from the moment it first spins the eccentric shaft. However, I junked the o-ring on the plug that came with my kit, reason being is that you don't want it _completely_ plugged up, you need some oil spray being delivered to the shaft's thrust bearing or it'll disintegrate from overheating. Starving the rotors of oil until they've warmed is pure idiocy and a guranteed way to cause bearing issues, they never should have done that. My understanding with why they moved the exhaust ports to the irons is because of the warping issues in the aluminium casings caused by a centre exhaust port. It's also pretty difficult to make a decent-sized exhaust port that runs well at most rpm's that also doesn't cause accelerated apex seal wear. Moving it to the side solves a lot of these issues, but it also makes the engine struggle to purge out as much of it's exhaust gas/unburnt fuel as possible...hence the flooding issues that are notorious with Renesis motors. Ideally, some combination of both a side and centre exhaust would be great, side for mid rpm's when you're cruising along, with centre opening up via a spool valve at low rpm's/high loads for boosted efficiency. Mechanically a bit complex though, especially for a production engine. I went with running 2-stroke oil through the OMP from a secondary tank, completely isolating the crankcase, mainly because no matter what you do you're going to make carbon deposits. Some of those deposits are good, let's call them _soft_ carbon which is great for helping the apex and side seals actually do their job and is burned out quite naturally so it doesn't grow that much. What you do not want is _hard_ carbon which has been compacted and glued together by burned oil additives...exactly the kind found in any decent crankcase oil. I also wanted to avoid premixing because there's simply no way of controlling the oil delivery percentage when you're contstantly on and off the throttle while you drive. Letting the engine pump 2-stroke through the OMP and adusting it for rpm's+load as required which is what it's designed for seemed like the least of many evils and so far seems to work well enough. Not ideal, true, but it's what we've got. I just wish it wasn't a swine to bleed 😅
You should check out a mechanic named Ernie Brink. He pointed out that the spark plug holes were way bigger than they need to be, which made the engine lose compression and the exhaust temperature high. He also pointed out that it would be great to offset the depression in the rotor. I think this engine has been plagued by deliberate engineering sabotage.
@@ronarmstrong835 Aye, I've seen some of his videos and explanations, really interesting food for thought. I've also seen some technical documents somewhere that detail _why_ the spark plug holes are that size and it's related to ignition timing and cooling of the spark plug, both of which are apparently drastically altered by the diameter of the spark plug hole opening. Wish I could build a test engine and find out. I'm not sure if some of the design choices were intentional, but Mazda had their hands tied by NSU's patents which severely limits how much they can develop the rotary. Until these patents expire, Mazda's engineers will keep banging their heads against walls...but there's absolutely nothing stopping people from developing their engines on their own so long as they keep to within the rules.
What about the Liquid Piston Engine? Similar but not the same? Basically a Wankel but inside out. Bottoms lines fuel/oil consumption & emissions! Miles, time off road & cost per complete engine out &rebuild?
Huh that's interesting I didn't know That they had to burn oil with the gas. I wonder if you could some how get the compression high enough to combust diesel. Doubtful, but maybe then the fuel oil would oil all the seals.
Rolls-Royce did build a Diesel Wankel, the 2-R6 prototype back in the 70's. It had two rotors, one twice the size of the other. The big one acted as a supercharger to boost the compression for the smaller one. It wasn't as successful as they hoped. The main problem with increasing compression is that it directly adds more strain on the rather limited shaft bearings and seals, wearing them out until the rotor either starts hitting the casing or the apex seals wear away until they fall out of their grooves and smash up the inside of the rotor casings, both of which are terminally catastrophic. When NSU's patents expire, we may finally get some proper development on the apex and side seals because there's currently no way to get oil to them other than dripping it into the firing chambers, which is a bit idiotic to be honest because any oil that's good for bearings doesn't burn very well at all and jams the seals with gunk. I'd love to see the seals paired up with oil ports in and out in between them, but it is what it is...for now. I've converted mine to run on 2-stroke oil so I can use decent fully-synthetic oil for the engine internals for this reason...improved seal and bearings lifespan..but manufacturers would rather it slowly drain it's engine oil out the exhaust so they can sell you the expensive (but shite) stuff every few months.
It burns oil because having no true “non combusting” side like a 4 stroke, more like a 2 stroke, resulting in similar problems, which is also why you are unlikely to see 2 strokes in street cars.
The engine design does not determine the weight distribution of a car, and it is certainly not true that all Mazda RX models had 50:50 (front:rear) weight distribution.
Can you look into and animate the new design from Liquid Piston. They claim to have taken the Wankel Rotary and turned it inside out. A peanut shaped rotor in a triangular housing. I would be curious of what you can show about that design from the information on their website. Thanks,
No, Mazda Wankel engines do not produce over 200 horsepower per litre, unless you cheat and only count one of the three combustion chambers around each rotor. For example, the 13B has a chamber displacement of 0.654 litres. With six chambers, that's 3.9 L - not just 1.3 L - so if the output is 280 HP (the 13B-REW of the last RX-7) that's 71 HP/L.... which is horribly low for a turbocharged engine. All of the displacements claimed in the video are one-third of the actual displacement, and half of the handicapped displacement often used in racing classifications.
This engine deserves much more development. The rotating components doesn't have to stop and change direction twice per rev..
This is the BEST video on the Wankel engine !
You said it. Perfect!
You're 3d representations are amazing
Thanks for the opportunity to voice this for you. The video is great! 🙂
Always helpful to gain more insight into it's unpopularity with manufacturers.
And why it's not a matter of putting in enough R&D to perfect it.
Thanks for the video. Hoping to see this channel grow more!
Thank you.
However , since 2008 there has been a revolution in Two stroke oil development , reducing pollution drastically !!
I own one (RX8) and do all my own rebuilds myself. It's probably the easiest engine I've ever overhauled, just follow mazda's service manual for it, you can't go wrong.
After tearing it down, it's astonishing how much development is left in it. Daft things, like the side intake ports that aren't cast smoothly into the chambers, so all the intake charge has to negotiate a 90-degree bend before it enters...why? The centre exhaust port that _for no reason_ has to share with the other rotor, make it twice the size? Nah, we'll make it _half it's size_ so only half the exhaust can get out through that side. Centre shaft bearings? Nah. Let's suspend the whole rotating assembly on two bearings that are an inch wide, so they're massively overloaded.
That's like having a four-cylinder piston engine and only having the crankshaft running on the end bearings, all of that force is magnified and wears them out long before their time.
Oh and the inherent problem of mounting the _single_ timing gear on one side of each rotor, so it constantly wants to twist the rotor sideways, slowly wearing it's bearings into a cone-shape. Use two timing gears per rotor, half width, with the bearing in between them so the rotor is now symmetrical and can centre itself as it spins...no rotor bearing issues any more.
People have had great success with ceramic apex seals and the like, most of the rotor seals were designed in the 60's, half of them are put in at the factory backwards for god's sake.
I wish I had the money to invest in developing this engine fully, Mazda did a lot but much of it is stuck in the past and handcuffed with patents..which is the problem.
That's fair but if you aren't a mechanic you're talking about thousands of labor hours every 80k or so miles
@Dale Bob On no mate, much truth in what you've said there. Good read.
I scrapped that stupid thermal pellet the first thing I did and plugged it so that it has consistent oil pressure from the moment it first spins the eccentric shaft. However, I junked the o-ring on the plug that came with my kit, reason being is that you don't want it _completely_ plugged up, you need some oil spray being delivered to the shaft's thrust bearing or it'll disintegrate from overheating. Starving the rotors of oil until they've warmed is pure idiocy and a guranteed way to cause bearing issues, they never should have done that.
My understanding with why they moved the exhaust ports to the irons is because of the warping issues in the aluminium casings caused by a centre exhaust port. It's also pretty difficult to make a decent-sized exhaust port that runs well at most rpm's that also doesn't cause accelerated apex seal wear. Moving it to the side solves a lot of these issues, but it also makes the engine struggle to purge out as much of it's exhaust gas/unburnt fuel as possible...hence the flooding issues that are notorious with Renesis motors. Ideally, some combination of both a side and centre exhaust would be great, side for mid rpm's when you're cruising along, with centre opening up via a spool valve at low rpm's/high loads for boosted efficiency. Mechanically a bit complex though, especially for a production engine.
I went with running 2-stroke oil through the OMP from a secondary tank, completely isolating the crankcase, mainly because no matter what you do you're going to make carbon deposits. Some of those deposits are good, let's call them _soft_ carbon which is great for helping the apex and side seals actually do their job and is burned out quite naturally so it doesn't grow that much. What you do not want is _hard_ carbon which has been compacted and glued together by burned oil additives...exactly the kind found in any decent crankcase oil. I also wanted to avoid premixing because there's simply no way of controlling the oil delivery percentage when you're contstantly on and off the throttle while you drive. Letting the engine pump 2-stroke through the OMP and adusting it for rpm's+load as required which is what it's designed for seemed like the least of many evils and so far seems to work well enough. Not ideal, true, but it's what we've got. I just wish it wasn't a swine to bleed 😅
You should check out a mechanic named Ernie Brink. He pointed out that the spark plug holes were way bigger than they need to be, which made the engine lose compression and the exhaust temperature high. He also pointed out that it would be great to offset the depression in the rotor. I think this engine has been plagued by deliberate engineering sabotage.
@@ronarmstrong835 Aye, I've seen some of his videos and explanations, really interesting food for thought. I've also seen some technical documents somewhere that detail _why_ the spark plug holes are that size and it's related to ignition timing and cooling of the spark plug, both of which are apparently drastically altered by the diameter of the spark plug hole opening. Wish I could build a test engine and find out.
I'm not sure if some of the design choices were intentional, but Mazda had their hands tied by NSU's patents which severely limits how much they can develop the rotary. Until these patents expire, Mazda's engineers will keep banging their heads against walls...but there's absolutely nothing stopping people from developing their engines on their own so long as they keep to within the rules.
Remember to share to help me! Thanks!
SMALL correction:
My stock 1989 FC STILL passes California smog tests... and they are the strictest in the USA.
😁😁😁
Great video and very good discription and animation, looking forward to more!
There were some yachts having an extremely lightweight inboard engine. Right, rotary. Yamaha, I recall.
Another great video! Keep up the good work👍
Thank you!
What about the Liquid Piston Engine? Similar but not the same? Basically a Wankel but inside out. Bottoms lines fuel/oil consumption & emissions! Miles, time off road & cost per complete engine out &rebuild?
now I know how these engines work thank you
Nice wow❤ may God bless you and he also enrich me to with knowledge to do such work
Huh that's interesting I didn't know That they had to burn oil with the gas. I wonder if you could some how get the compression high enough to combust diesel. Doubtful, but maybe then the fuel oil would oil all the seals.
Rolls-Royce did build a Diesel Wankel, the 2-R6 prototype back in the 70's.
It had two rotors, one twice the size of the other. The big one acted as a supercharger to boost the compression for the smaller one. It wasn't as successful as they hoped.
The main problem with increasing compression is that it directly adds more strain on the rather limited shaft bearings and seals, wearing them out until the rotor either starts hitting the casing or the apex seals wear away until they fall out of their grooves and smash up the inside of the rotor casings, both of which are terminally catastrophic.
When NSU's patents expire, we may finally get some proper development on the apex and side seals because there's currently no way to get oil to them other than dripping it into the firing chambers, which is a bit idiotic to be honest because any oil that's good for bearings doesn't burn very well at all and jams the seals with gunk. I'd love to see the seals paired up with oil ports in and out in between them, but it is what it is...for now. I've converted mine to run on 2-stroke oil so I can use decent fully-synthetic oil for the engine internals for this reason...improved seal and bearings lifespan..but manufacturers would rather it slowly drain it's engine oil out the exhaust so they can sell you the expensive (but shite) stuff every few months.
It burns oil because having no true “non combusting” side like a 4 stroke, more like a 2 stroke, resulting in similar problems, which is also why you are unlikely to see 2 strokes in street cars.
Fun fact. RX = “Rotary experiment”
nice video
I like this engine, so cool 😎. 😊
Wankel Rotary Engine👍👍👍
The engine design does not determine the weight distribution of a car, and it is certainly not true that all Mazda RX models had 50:50 (front:rear) weight distribution.
What application do you use? Please help!
Can you look into and animate the new design from Liquid Piston. They claim to have taken the Wankel Rotary and turned it inside out. A peanut shaped rotor in a triangular housing. I would be curious of what you can show about that design from the information on their website.
Thanks,
Incorrect Suzuki were the only ones using it commercially on their RE 5....
Top video!!!
And the fans know the rotary engine reliability on daily use are totally different story
Onde estão os outros vídeos do canal?
En repman22
@@repairman22 obrigado, nem tinha percebido que você tinha dois canais :)
A spinning Dorito
あなたの別の ch
そこでは自動翻訳が出来なかった。
この動画は自動翻訳で日本語表示可能
私は出会えて嬉しいです (^^♪
No, Mazda Wankel engines do not produce over 200 horsepower per litre, unless you cheat and only count one of the three combustion chambers around each rotor.
For example, the 13B has a chamber displacement of 0.654 litres. With six chambers, that's 3.9 L - not just 1.3 L - so if the output is 280 HP (the 13B-REW of the last RX-7) that's 71 HP/L.... which is horribly low for a turbocharged engine.
All of the displacements claimed in the video are one-third of the actual displacement, and half of the handicapped displacement often used in racing classifications.
We all like fire from the exhaust?.....no 'we' don't.
But your name is "fire" brand. you must like 🔥
It won races so they banned it..
That says all you need to know.
What music did you use in the background ? I like it.
Citroen used a Wankel engine
2.6L rotary should have the power of a 5.2L piston engine, it sparks once per cycle rather than two.