The moment Buckley made that outburst he lost. Videl knew it, Buckley knew it, and we knew it. Videl made him lose his cool and the argument devolved from politics to insults. Buckley could have called him a communist or a Stalinist and maintained some level of debate but he went for the low blow which shows it was personal, not political.
Do you know much about history? Because calling someone a stalinist is just as bad, if not just Assad as calling someone a n*zi, stalin has a much bigger body count then hitler had, and moa in China had an even bigger number then stalin AND hitler put together! So I think a communist is actually worse in alot of ways
@@flyy1006 Thank you. He had a backbone and wouldn't take such a slur. The right always has to take the moral high ground and do nothing whilst the left throws out slurs willy nilly and the right is supposed to take it. Buckley showed his teeth when he needed to and others today need to do the same.
Vidal wasn't put in his place at all. Buckley's infantile temper tantrum merely solidified Vidal's victory. I don't think, prior to this, Buckley had ever received such a rhetorical thrashing, at least not on television.
I don't think Vidal could have stooped any lower, and what was Buckley to do, say nothing? He called out Vidal and rightfully so. The arguments put forward by Vidal are the usual ones in relation to vietnam and other social issues. He takes the line of all permissiveness and treats the threat of communism at that time casually as one would expect from someone under the spell of the soviet union and others.
@@thewealthofnations4827 I have watched all the debates multiple times and Vidal demolishes Buckley, especially early on. Buckley was not prepared for Vidal's quickness and erudition. All that seems to be remembered is this most heated argument spurred by the Chicago police forces' overreaction, and Buckley's defense of it. Your saying Vidal was under the spell of communism shows your lack of familiarity with his work. Better to do your homework before passing judgment.
@@lawrenceoftokyo i don't doubt the talent wit and intelligence of Vidal nor his preparation for the debate. When he says things like letting the Viet cong manage their own affairs or carve their own future, he ignores the reality behind that vietnamese motive, EG the collaboration and of Russia and China. He ignores what Mao had in mind where he was willing to fight "to the last Vietnamese." If vidal was ahead in the debate, there should have been no reason to call Buckley a Nazi but that is not Vidal's aim. His aim was to embarrass and defame and Buckley took the bait to the smirk of Vidal. However correct or ahead Vidal was in the debate he stooped to a low the modern left stoop too, calling those they disagree with Nazis. I'm not surprised Buckley reacted the way he did as he clearly understands the evil he was being compared to. It shows vidals ignornance or carelessness to make such comparisons.
Ok come on. The left and the Nazi slur? Nazi isn’t a slur, it’s an accusation. The only slur that occurred here was when Buckley’s called Vidal a queer and threatened to beat him up.
I think you get my meaning. There would have been no escalation on the part of Buckley had Gore not chosen to call him a "crypto Nazi." Buckley had to draw a line and unfortunately, Gore got the best of him. No one remembers the agitator, only the retaliator.
Buckley didn't have to do anything. He could have responded with complete calm. But what he chose to do, being the reactionary person he was, was threaten Vidal and call him a queer. It was a political debate, and however offended republicans may get by it, crypto-nazi is only a political accusation Queer is a slur against gays. "I'll sock you in your face" is a threat. There is no comparison.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Why should Gore be condemned? For making a political accusation during a political debate? Politicians do that all the time, which they both were. However, politicians aren't supposed to slur and threaten their opponents like Buckley did. If Buckley weren't concerned that the accusation were true, he would have just asked Gore to substantiate his claims, and we could have seen whether Gore could substantiate it. This is how debates are supposed to happen.
@@lumo9132 there's also objective analysis irrespective of either camp we may belong to. I'm asking you, bias aside, whether or not you consider Buckley a fascist or crypto Nazi? I'm sure we disagree fundamentally but we are really just analysing data. It's also totally fine to say "I don't know much about Buckley to say if he isn't one way or the other."
Vidal did what he wanted to do; to show that underneath his high-nosed pseudo-intellectual linguistic garble was not the loving Christian, as Buckley often portrayed himself as in Roman Catholic robes, but a hawkishly violent man.We should remember also that it was The Roman Catholic Church, which I am part, tha facilitated some of the worse murders of Nazi Germany to escape justice by setting up the “rat lines” which allowed them to flee to South America.. PS- it should also be noted that history proved Buckley’s position on Vietnam to be categorically incorrect.
His position on Vietnam was based on the Truman doctrine which said that wherever communism was interfering with other countries the US would intervene. The pattern was there for Vietnam and Korea. I think people underestimate communist Russia and China at the time and their meddling in other countries to spread violent communism. Buckley was overall a good man but understood at times you have need for military. He on a whole was sensible and measured. What is your evidence for him being a "hawkishly violent man?"
@@thewealthofnations4827 Vidal points it out in Buckley’s own words; Nuclear bombing of North Korea and bombing The Chinese nuclear power plants. But, once again, his true nature came out when he told Vidal he’d punch him in the face for being called “a crypto-Nazi”. Not very Christian, don’t you think? After Hitler, all ultra right wing nationalist turn violent when exposed…they can’t help it.
I'm firmly on the left myself when it comes to politics, and Buckley was entitled react that way. Calling someone a cryptonazi 20 Yeats after ww2 was character assassination. Vidal was trying to make him flip out, and succeeded. While he shouldn't have said QUEER on tv, everything else he said was acceptable
@@thewealthofnations4827y the yanks and their stooges in western Europe are allowed to "interfere" with everyone on the planet. Vietnam was a sovereign country that fought doggedly for their independence, defeating the Japanese, and then the French. The United States had no business interfering in Indochina internal affairs, on the other side of the planet from DC. the Vietnamese rightfully sought assistance from the communist bloc, and then drove the Americans out. Good for them. The u.s. had divided their country in two, and turned Saigon into a brothel. Americans would do the same thing if a distant Asian power sought to divide our country and create a puppet government in the south. George Washington took crucial help from France and the Prussians to eject the British. Yes, we teamed up with the French crown, the MORTAL enemy of our british government. But you'd never describe that as French "interference" in America. I'm sure youre a nice guy, but your whole mindset about these matters is warped. Totally warped. This is a major problem in America. Citizens of a country that is only 250 years old thinking they have the right to set policy in ancient civilizations around the planet This is all contrary to the vision of the founding fathers, as shown in Washington's Fairwell address. Screw truman. He was a scuumbag and a hack
I worked with a woman who told me I looked German when I grew a mustache. In that statement she gave me a clue about what she really thought of me since I am of Hispanic descent.
Vidal's sole aim was to get personal and press just the right buttons to anger and infuriate. He's a model for our current wave of similarly minded people that speak with little caution or care and then run and cry fowl when the bear they poke shows it's teeth.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Thanks. Gore Vidal and the Left thought they had all the answers. Michael Foot was a lofty intellectual but failed as a politician. Margaret Thatcher gave voters the right to buy their council house. It worked. Time and events move on whether we like it or not. Yesterday's arguments are invariably displayed by events dear boy events. To quote Harold MacMillan.
@@julianmarsh1378 Is there any importance placed on HOW you win? Or does the ends justify the means? It's easy to make someone angry by slandering their character and making allusions they're comparable to the vilest group in history. No class, no respect, no dignity from Vidal.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Buckley referred to Vidal as a pornographer...at that moment during the debate, it was Buckley who referred to anti-war demonstrators in Chicago as nazis and it was then Vidal referred to Buckley as one...
@@thewealthofnations4827 if you get called a Nazi in the first place you may want to rethink some things. There's a huge difference between a young kid slinging that word at you and an educated adult saying it to you.
Similarities? Well here's some information. The Weimar Republic's cultural influences in sociology in Academia, these figures fled Germany before Hitler came and they brought their critical theories to the United States. These critical theories sow discord and discontent and resentment in the world as they are doing now. These influences are still being felt today mind you. The true enemy of those who espouse these values through the New School is the William F. Buckley's of the world who contest and challenge these wild ideas that stream from these institutions that have their origins in the Weimar Republic.
@@thewealthofnations4827Oh man the irony and projecting in your reply is too much...😂😂 - If you *really* want me to go through the majority of everything wrong in your video here, I'd be happy to help people laugh at you even more! I just figured your ass is probably sore from getting railed in response to your "anal-ysis" here...
Vidal levied libel towards Buckley (which he settled for multiple times) until his death, which Vidal celebrated by insinuating that Buckley had gone to hell. A pretty fitting protoype for demented gay twitter dudes.
Vidal had no class and I lament Buckley let him get the best of him. Buckley was a good man and an honest man and to be called a nazi was going too far.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Buckley was charismatic, so much so that you and I know the name Gore Vidal. His platform was built on provoking Buckley. Buckley went on to influence political discourse for the rest of his life, while Vidal spent the rest of his years obsessing over Buckley, defending Roman Polanski, sympathizing with Scientology, and watching his Martha's Vineyard ideations fail with the American general public.
@@thewealthofnations4827 see? He was smart guy. He was right The decline is now. Biden's Ukraine debacle is the beginning of the end of western Atlantic hegemony. And all this gender stuff domestically is the corresponding cultural rot When people in a society become obsessed with their own genitalia, instead of acting in concert to achieve goals, it's over
What makes this even better of a fail for you is that Vidal wasn't even the one to bring up Nazis in this debate. He only switched around the accusation already made. 🤡
Your failure to even mention the crux of the video, which is that Vidal and those of his posse throw nazi around willy nilly to defame and smear others. All the while these types fail to see their own backyards which are closer to nazism than they realise. Buckley let a weaker man get under his skin, the weak man pushed just the right button to make a good man bite. The smug vidal laughed all the way and had the upper hand. Buckley had far more scruples than Vidal, and his history and legacy are proof.
@@thewealthofnations4827 🤣🤡 I did address the crux. And as I pointed out and will for you again he only reverses an accusation used against his position. In other words he was called the Nazi first 🤡 Can you really not understand how this defeats your entire premise?
@@thewealthofnations4827 you are just butthurt that you are called a Nazi all the time and can't accept that it's probably accurate. Instead you do these weird things.
@@blakewisswell I haven't been called that thankfully. I don't take people seriously who throw "nazi" around willy nilly. Those who do don't understand history they just use it as a weapon against those they see as political enemies.
@@thewealthofnations4827 you clearly don't understand history and fascism. And the fact you dismiss people for calling someone a fascists proves it. You'd be the German citizen yelling at people to leave Hitler alone too.
Vidal went over the line and got a proper comeback. Sure calling someone a queer isnt the best move but it definitely conveys his point. He went further to let him know that they are still men at the end of the day and there is always the possibility of violence between men. The threat of violence keeps those kind of nasty things from being said between men. This is the way it has always been and should always be.
Vidal did not come in a good spirit. It showed. He didn't make any further allusions to Buckley being a "crypto nazi" so it obviously worked. Prime time television. Shame we can't get that now from our political or public commentators.
If you consider Buckley's writing in the National Review, which he was the editor and chief of, it becomes immediately clear that Vidal is correct in his use of the term "crypto nazi". For example, this is Buckley's argument on whether white people have the right to suppress the black vote in the south: "The sobering answer is Yes - the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. It is not easy, and it is unpleasant, to adduce statistics evidencing the median cultural superiority of White over Negro: but it is a fact that obtrudes, one that cannot be hidden by ever-so-busy egalitarians and anthropologists."
With all due respect sir the sentiment at the time was that African Americans were progressing at their own rate as more opportunities were granted to them. I've also read that people irrespective of their race who couldn't read were also barred from voting because if you're not well informed you shouldn't be allowed to make weighty decisions about who to vote for. If Buckley's comments stem from prejudice I accept that but I still think it is a massive leap to compar him in any way shape or form to a Nazi. He has had plenty to say on African Americans, he had plenty of African Americans on his show having meaningful discussions with black nationalists, black panthers, and more. If the man was a nazi racist he wouldn't have given them that opportunity to speak with him as equals on stage. In short I disagree with the conclusions you have drawn from one written paragraph.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Just because he had them on the show doesn't mean he believes in their existence or pursuits. I think any reasonable person would say yes, Buckley provided an amazing platform for polemic debate-he was a wasp and part of that is being well mannered, with the exception of witt. But to Vidal's point, thats the reason his racism is indeed cryptic-it hides behind the facade of sophistication, which eventually eroded at the end of the interview. So in my view anyone arguing for the (superior) white race to hold onto power in a society that is shared is a bigot. And I may have quoted one paragraph, but this is youtube. I'm not gonna paste the whole essay lol. Although, here's another for yah. “In some parts of the South, the White community merely intends to prevail - that is all. It means to prevail on any issue on which there is corporate disagreement between Negro and White. The White community will take whatever measures are necessary to make certain that it has its way.”
@Anthony James Randazzo at least provide a link so I don't read out of context. If Vidal felt he was a racist or a bigot he could have said so. He didn't say so. Nazi is a whole different level of a slur which is the basis of my video. Vidal was using any means to get a reaction. He was commenting in his time about a society that is largely alien to us now. I think you are quite harsh in your assessment of the man and you ignore clear instances where Buckley was a defender of black Americans, sympathetic to their hardships, and encouraging of their development.
He did. Very surprising from his usual on Firing Line but he wasn't dealing with a usual opponent. Never bite on the provocateurs but at the same time you should mount a defence if someone is slandering you as bad as Vidal did.
Generally i think you are correctly characterizing the left as using or stooping to such tactics however Buckley threw insults, underhanded and blatant, he called Vidal a queer and other things that would be unacceptable now...the right having the moral high ground is perhaps the original Big Lie.
Vidal stooped first and came in with the intent to stir. Vidal got his reaction and I think Buckley's emotional reaction is more forgivable compared to the actions of vidal.
@@blakewisswell Buckley was not a fascist or Nazi. Fascism peaked in Nazi Germany and now anyone that isn't left wing is a fascist. I wish more people would self-reflect.
@@thewealthofnations4827 .... I think you are a little bit naive. Every country has Fascist/Right Wing parties, factions or groups. Sorry, but only Japanese and German Fascist factions were demolished in WW 2. At least for the time being. Buckley was slightly to the left of John Birch society, and I might be wrong about that. He might have been, on some issues, right in line with them. WFB seem to agree a lot with the Strom Thurmond, Lester Maddox " Dixiecrats". A Right Wing " Jim Crow" old time confederate party. You seem to think Nazism/Fascism is an odd, peculiar political disease endemic only to Europe. No, there are Fascist factions in every country.
Buckley only acted that way because Vidal was correct. Buckley was sympathetic towards American Imperialism going so far as to write that the US should attack China in the late 60s for no other reason than to retain US hegemony in SE Asia.
He was not correct. The National Review asked if the US should preempt a strike on China's nuclear capability. That is different to what you are proposing was said. I think it is more likely the case that the US was aware of the threat that was China and the Soviet Union. You need to read more widely and you won't make the mistake you've just made.
5 месяцев назад+1
I would rather be called a Nazi than what Gore Vidal was!
@The Wealth of Nations if you get called a Nazi in the first place you may want to rethink some things. There's a huge difference between a young kid slinging that word at you and an educated adult saying it to you.
Vidal is educated in provocation and that's all this was. He attacked the pride of a man and got the response he wanted. Buckley should not have reacted the way he did, but Vidal is no saint in this. He provoked and pushed a man too far. And many follow the pattern of Vidal today throwing it around willy nilly.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Your bias is showing. Buckley attempted to provoke Vidal every bit as much as Vidal did Buckley. Intellectually, they were very evenly matched and could have continued to have an edifying (if passionate) debate. However, ultimately, one lost his cool and the other did not.
@Geoffrey Wieting Vidal had one agenda to provoke and shame the man. There is nothing intellectual about slandering someone and accusing someone of something so opposite to the truth. Your defending the indefensible. Buckley called him a pornographer, which at least was a true statement. Buckley had at least the decency to tell the truth when insulting Vidal.
Imagine serving your country just to be called the thing you fought to destroy. Vidal stooped so low and it shows. When you attack someone’s character instead of their ideas you’ve already lost.
Maybe Gore should have used the word " fascist" . WFB kept interrupting Gore Vidal. You see Vidal trying to read his script trying outline his position and Buckley hector and interrupted Vidal. Go back a few minutes before this you'll see WFB read from a script detailing his position. Gore Vidal allowed him to read it and did not interrupt him. Doesn't the " Right" hurl the term " Commie" as a slur towards the left? BTW, Buckley finally came to terms with the Viet Nam war and agreed he was wrong about the war. He finally acknowledged a few years before his death that America's involvement in the war was wrong and the U.S. should have never gone in. He also went on record stating America's involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq was wrong. Nothing better than a reform drunk.
WFB wore the Uniform but never saw action. He, like Ronald Reagan, were stateside for the whole duration of the war. Vidal was in the Army during WW2 as well. Buckley was wrong on practically every Major political issue of his era.
There can be only two options to explain this phenomenon: 1. People on the Left are incapable of accurately interpreting the actions and ideas of others and thus they constantly falsely equate people on the Right with Nazis. 2. People on the Right faithfully adhere to many of the core tenets of Nazism. I for one have never seen someone on the Right genuinely denounce Fascism or Racism in a way that would lead racists and fascists to exit the party en masse. It simply has not happened even once in modern history. And so it is perfectly fair and accurate to say that not all Republicans are Nazis, but all Nazis are Republicans. There just isn't a single political party in America other than the GOP that would accept them or court their vote or minimize the issues they are passionate about in order to protect their feelings.
It's politically expedient to lump your opponents into the most undesirable category of person. The right throws the left the "commie" comments etc and what that means for them is Stalin, Mao. For the left when they call the right Nazis in their mind is Hitler. Stalin and Hitler have many commonalities. The issue is the left brandishes people with these broad strokes of hitler and nazi and it is so far from the truth. That's why I call it a political tool used by Gore and many people today. It plants in people's minds undesirable associations that don't apply. Trump was a great "fascist" scare according to the left but in four years he did nothing of the sort. Republicans don't denounce racism, because they don't have to. The thing giving rise and fuel to racists if anything is the left, demonising people, critical race theory, blaming white Christian males for every social ill, etc etc. The big one is identity politics. The left is playing that game dividing people into racial groups calling out certain groups and we can see races forming factions and insulating. What are the core tenets of nazism and how does the Republican party have any association with it? Racism and fascism don't need to be explicitly called out. I suspect the left is a big fan of lip service, saying one thing but doing another. In my view they are more racist and fascist of the lot but by our 2021 standards not 1940's Germany. Denouncing is domain of the left where words are everything and action is an afterthought, which allows their hypocrisy to continue unchallenged. The right in my opinion are action orientated people, and that should speak for itself.
@@thewealthofnations4827 You said all of that but completely overlooked the fact that there is no political party other than the GOP that contains openly practicing neo-nazis. The only possible exception to this is that there might be some less than open nazis who would rather call themselves Libertarians than Republicans, but the Libertarian Party has never held true political power of the sort that anyone has really wanted to hold them accountable for anything. Are you actually going to tell me that Nazi organizations don't exist in the US, that the KKK is not a real thing? Or are you going to suggest that none of those people vote or lobby the government or have any effect on society? Total nonsense. Republicans could, if they wanted, say that racism is no longer welcome in even the most thickly veiled form within the party. The only problem is that they'd lose millions of voters. You cannot gaslight me on this issue, I know what nazism looks like today, it isn't identical to 1930s Germany like many people want to suggest in order to categorically dismiss the accusation, but it is close enough that it is a real problem and no one on either the Left or the Right is doing anything effective to fix it. Including me. I have no idea how to put an end to Nazism other than to ostracize them and publicly shame them until they burn their copies of Mein Kampf and change their ideology.
@@VvSlaveofMetalvV i'm not trying to gaslight you. I'm not trying to dismiss your point either. Everyone in the US from far left to far right must choose between two parties otherwise their vote is largely meaningless except perhaps for the easing of one's conscience. The Republicans don't entirely represent me and all my views but they are the closest. I have to compromise on some of my views. I'm sure for some on the far left the Dems don't align with their views entirely, they too must make a compromise. To provide you with some perspective, the Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan advocates for a black ethno state. I'm confident most people agree this is contrary to the spirit of the United States and I must ask you which party he and his followers vote for? Do you think there is no one as undesirable as nazis in the left? You seem reasonable and sensible, but advocates on the far left believe in anarchy, "eating the rich," redistribution of wealth, and ending the order of freedom through capitalism to an order of force and control through hard communism. I suspect some of these elements you disagree with too, but these as mentioned must find a home somewhere in our two party system. Nazis exist, white nationalists exist. Black nationalists exist but none of these have political clout, major support. They exist on the fringes, and they exist there because they are shunned and not supported which is what you said you do. I will say your point on them is overstated or their threat overstated. The only thing giving them more power and more followers is the left fuelling the flames or division and identity politics. People are so free in America, so free to hold even the most undesirable views. They are not free to impose their will by force to assault or to hinder others. Our humanity is protected by law that serves as a bulwark against those who want to take by force or implement their views by any other means than pursuasion and democracy. You really can't get rid of the views people have they are like a virus. You can educate people, offer a different perspective but you will never do any of that by shunning and shaming or ignoring. In fact all that achieves is bunkering these people in and reinforcing their echo chambers where as someone like you could potentially offer a release valve on that pressure cooker of an echo chamber. If you fear white nationalists, fear black nationalists but these are natural tendencies and through time and education in a country built on the idea of E Pluribus Unum we learn to see our humanity first, our common citizenship, our shared culture, and perhaps our tribe, race, ancestry as more of an afterthought. Maybe that is one way of looking at it. People in America some place greater value on common humanity, common culture and citizenship, others place higher value on race and gender etc etc. The two values are competing and will divide our nation, and potentially bring it to ruin if we do not reconcile these competing values.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Well said, hard to argue with. You are clearly not the common republican ditto head who isn't capable of nuanced thought. I can see you care about history, about what is fact versus what is opinion. Unfortunately, just like the Nazis, intellectually honest people with integrity and nuanced ideologies are also a fringe group in the GOP. A large majority of people in the party have nothing but disgust for educated people who know how to properly debate. They want to see a good, old-fashioned WWF throwdown with smack-talk and buzzwords they can understand. Of course there are plenty on the left who want the same kind of simplistic entertainment, and I don't agree with a lot of Leftists, especially the anarchist types, but mostly the right leaning corporate centrists who may as well be Republicans for all the progress they oppose. Bottom line is this: I do not believe, and cannot be convinced that our current two-party system is the solution to the country's problems, whatever anyone's opinion may be on what those problems are, nothing is solved by this divisive tug-o-war that will only end with one group being drug through the mud. I don't know if there is a better system within our capabilities, but I also don't think that my own incredulity should prevent us from trying to do better. We cannot settle for this and say it's the best we can do. We can do so much better.
I think to be fair, if you watch all these debates, Buckley was trying to make a point and Vidal was trying to get under his skin. Vidal was very successful. It is very hard to judge the virtue of either side in the context of the times, however, in my opinion, Buckley's points seem very out of touch to anyone other than a MAGA republican at this point.
Maga wasn't even a thing then so I really don't see how it can be brought in here. Buckley was a conservative and I know that id taboo these days. We can't lump anything and everything right wing as MAGA republican. There is nuance and diversity within the right just as there is on the left.
The moment Buckley made that outburst he lost. Videl knew it, Buckley knew it, and we knew it. Videl made him lose his cool and the argument devolved from politics to insults. Buckley could have called him a communist or a Stalinist and maintained some level of debate but he went for the low blow which shows it was personal, not political.
It was personal. Was there any basis at all for Vidal to call him a crypto Nazi?
Do you know much about history? Because calling someone a stalinist is just as bad, if not just Assad as calling someone a n*zi, stalin has a much bigger body count then hitler had, and moa in China had an even bigger number then stalin AND hitler put together! So I think a communist is actually worse in alot of ways
nah he won
@@flyy1006 Thank you. He had a backbone and wouldn't take such a slur. The right always has to take the moral high ground and do nothing whilst the left throws out slurs willy nilly and the right is supposed to take it. Buckley showed his teeth when he needed to and others today need to do the same.
Vidal wasn't put in his place at all. Buckley's infantile temper tantrum merely solidified Vidal's victory. I don't think, prior to this, Buckley had ever received such a rhetorical thrashing, at least not on television.
I don't think Vidal could have stooped any lower, and what was Buckley to do, say nothing? He called out Vidal and rightfully so. The arguments put forward by Vidal are the usual ones in relation to vietnam and other social issues. He takes the line of all permissiveness and treats the threat of communism at that time casually as one would expect from someone under the spell of the soviet union and others.
@@thewealthofnations4827 I have watched all the debates multiple times and Vidal demolishes Buckley, especially early on. Buckley was not prepared for Vidal's quickness and erudition. All that seems to be remembered is this most heated argument spurred by the Chicago police forces' overreaction, and Buckley's defense of it. Your saying Vidal was under the spell of communism shows your lack of familiarity with his work. Better to do your homework before passing judgment.
@@lawrenceoftokyo i don't doubt the talent wit and intelligence of Vidal nor his preparation for the debate. When he says things like letting the Viet cong manage their own affairs or carve their own future, he ignores the reality behind that vietnamese motive, EG the collaboration and of Russia and China. He ignores what Mao had in mind where he was willing to fight "to the last Vietnamese."
If vidal was ahead in the debate, there should have been no reason to call Buckley a Nazi but that is not Vidal's aim. His aim was to embarrass and defame and Buckley took the bait to the smirk of Vidal.
However correct or ahead Vidal was in the debate he stooped to a low the modern left stoop too, calling those they disagree with Nazis. I'm not surprised Buckley reacted the way he did as he clearly understands the evil he was being compared to. It shows vidals ignornance or carelessness to make such comparisons.
@ and you could see the lust in Buckley’s eyes! Unfortunately not Vidal’s type, which only furthered Buckley’s overall humiliation.
True, he should have knocked his ass out or challenged him to a duel or something
Ok come on. The left and the Nazi slur? Nazi isn’t a slur, it’s an accusation. The only slur that occurred here was when Buckley’s called Vidal a queer and threatened to beat him up.
I think you get my meaning. There would have been no escalation on the part of Buckley had Gore not chosen to call him a "crypto Nazi." Buckley had to draw a line and unfortunately, Gore got the best of him. No one remembers the agitator, only the retaliator.
Buckley didn't have to do anything. He could have responded with complete calm. But what he chose to do, being the reactionary person he was, was threaten Vidal and call him a queer.
It was a political debate, and however offended republicans may get by it, crypto-nazi is only a political accusation
Queer is a slur against gays.
"I'll sock you in your face" is a threat.
There is no comparison.
@@skatebaker321 you hold Gore to zero account. I'm telling you what Buckley did was wrong, you provide no condemnation for Gore.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Why should Gore be condemned? For making a political accusation during a political debate? Politicians do that all the time, which they both were. However, politicians aren't supposed to slur and threaten their opponents like Buckley did. If Buckley weren't concerned that the accusation were true, he would have just asked Gore to substantiate his claims, and we could have seen whether Gore could substantiate it. This is how debates are supposed to happen.
@@skatebaker321 please do not excuse such an accusation. And i wont excuse threats of violence and the remarks about sexual orientation.
WFB could punch about as hard as a feather can land
What would you do if someone called you a Nazi on television?
@@thewealthofnations4827 i'd probably just avoid that happening by not being a puffed up neocon
@@lumo9132 buckley was a good man and didn't deserve the accusation of crypto nazi. It appeared no low was too low for Vidal to stir the pot.
@@thewealthofnations4827 idk what to tell you I think we disagree at a pretty fundamental level
@@lumo9132 there's also objective analysis irrespective of either camp we may belong to. I'm asking you, bias aside, whether or not you consider Buckley a fascist or crypto Nazi?
I'm sure we disagree fundamentally but we are really just analysing data. It's also totally fine to say "I don't know much about Buckley to say if he isn't one way or the other."
Okay, just here to see the channel runner pick childish fights with people much morr well read than them...
🍿🍿🍿
godd damned queens!!!👋👋👋
Vidal did what he wanted to do; to show that underneath his high-nosed pseudo-intellectual linguistic garble was not the loving Christian, as Buckley often portrayed himself as in Roman Catholic robes, but a hawkishly violent man.We should remember also that it was The Roman Catholic Church, which I am part, tha facilitated some of the worse murders of Nazi Germany to escape justice by setting up the “rat lines” which allowed them to flee to South America..
PS- it should also be noted that history proved Buckley’s position on Vietnam to be categorically incorrect.
His position on Vietnam was based on the Truman doctrine which said that wherever communism was interfering with other countries the US would intervene. The pattern was there for Vietnam and Korea. I think people underestimate communist Russia and China at the time and their meddling in other countries to spread violent communism.
Buckley was overall a good man but understood at times you have need for military. He on a whole was sensible and measured.
What is your evidence for him being a "hawkishly violent man?"
@@thewealthofnations4827 Vidal points it out in Buckley’s own words; Nuclear bombing of North Korea and bombing The Chinese nuclear power plants. But, once again, his true nature came out when he told Vidal he’d punch him in the face for being called “a crypto-Nazi”. Not very Christian, don’t you think? After Hitler, all ultra right wing nationalist turn violent when exposed…they can’t help it.
I'm firmly on the left myself when it comes to politics, and Buckley was entitled react that way. Calling someone a cryptonazi 20 Yeats after ww2 was character assassination. Vidal was trying to make him flip out, and succeeded. While he shouldn't have said QUEER on tv, everything else he said was acceptable
@@thewealthofnations4827y the yanks and their stooges in western Europe are allowed to "interfere" with everyone on the planet. Vietnam was a sovereign country that fought doggedly for their independence, defeating the Japanese, and then the French. The United States had no business interfering in Indochina internal affairs, on the other side of the planet from DC. the Vietnamese rightfully sought assistance from the communist bloc, and then drove the Americans out. Good for them. The u.s. had divided their country in two, and turned Saigon into a brothel. Americans would do the same thing if a distant Asian power sought to divide our country and create a puppet government in the south. George Washington took crucial help from France and the Prussians to eject the British. Yes, we teamed up with the French crown, the MORTAL enemy of our british government. But you'd never describe that as French "interference" in America.
I'm sure youre a nice guy, but your whole mindset about these matters is warped. Totally warped. This is a major problem in America. Citizens of a country that is only 250 years old thinking they have the right to set policy in ancient civilizations around the planet
This is all contrary to the vision of the founding fathers, as shown in Washington's Fairwell address. Screw truman. He was a scuumbag and a hack
@@stevencoardvenice it’s not acceptable for Buckley to threaten violence, especially in a civil debate. Violence is barbarism and anti-civilization
I worked with a woman who told me I looked German when I grew a mustache. In that statement she gave me a clue about what she really thought of me since I am of Hispanic descent.
Watch entire debate. Buckley called protesters like Nazi supporters
Funny how dated and stale these arguments now seem. Contrived indignation. Intellectual sanctimonious hypocracy. Gore Vidal was losing the argument.
Vidal's sole aim was to get personal and press just the right buttons to anger and infuriate. He's a model for our current wave of similarly minded people that speak with little caution or care and then run and cry fowl when the bear they poke shows it's teeth.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Thanks. Gore Vidal and the Left thought they had all the answers. Michael Foot was a lofty intellectual but failed as a politician. Margaret Thatcher gave voters the right to buy their council house. It worked. Time and events move on whether we like it or not. Yesterday's arguments are invariably displayed by events dear boy events. To quote Harold MacMillan.
Vidal won. He exposed Buckley as the bully he was, hiding behind a veneer of intellectual civility. A thoroughly loathsome man.
@@julianmarsh1378 Is there any importance placed on HOW you win? Or does the ends justify the means? It's easy to make someone angry by slandering their character and making allusions they're comparable to the vilest group in history. No class, no respect, no dignity from Vidal.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Buckley referred to Vidal as a pornographer...at that moment during the debate, it was Buckley who referred to anti-war demonstrators in Chicago as nazis and it was then Vidal referred to Buckley as one...
If it walks like a duck........
Not a shred of Nazi in that man. Shame on you and Vidal.
@@thewealthofnations4827 if you get called a Nazi in the first place you may want to rethink some things. There's a huge difference between a young kid slinging that word at you and an educated adult saying it to you.
@@SerfsUp1848 to be frank, nazi is so loosely used as an accusation that it holds no weight anymore
@@bigolanus yah?
Is that why we're all arguing about it still?
Fuckley is more of just a shitty snakey lil racist moron than a Nazi. Though not mutually exclusive.
Hey, ever get a chance to do some research on politics and the economy of WWII Germany? Still can't find any similarities?
Similarities? Well here's some information. The Weimar Republic's cultural influences in sociology in Academia, these figures fled Germany before Hitler came and they brought their critical theories to the United States. These critical theories sow discord and discontent and resentment in the world as they are doing now. These influences are still being felt today mind you. The true enemy of those who espouse these values through the New School is the William F. Buckley's of the world who contest and challenge these wild ideas that stream from these institutions that have their origins in the Weimar Republic.
When you post a video thinking youre nailing it 🤣🤦
When you contribute absolutely nothing and think your comment nails it. Have some depth.
@@thewealthofnations4827Oh man the irony and projecting in your reply is too much...😂😂 - If you *really* want me to go through the majority of everything wrong in your video here, I'd be happy to help people laugh at you even more!
I just figured your ass is probably sore from getting railed in response to your "anal-ysis" here...
Vidal levied libel towards Buckley (which he settled for multiple times) until his death, which Vidal celebrated by insinuating that Buckley had gone to hell. A pretty fitting protoype for demented gay twitter dudes.
Vidal had no class and I lament Buckley let him get the best of him. Buckley was a good man and an honest man and to be called a nazi was going too far.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Buckley was charismatic, so much so that you and I know the name Gore Vidal. His platform was built on provoking Buckley.
Buckley went on to influence political discourse for the rest of his life, while Vidal spent the rest of his years obsessing over Buckley, defending Roman Polanski, sympathizing with Scientology, and watching his Martha's Vineyard ideations fail with the American general public.
Vidal was a nasty guy but he was hilarious. He lived in Italy. He only came here to troll
@@stevencoardvenice yes I saw he gave a tour of his cliff side mansion. He said it was a good place to watch the fall of the West.
@@thewealthofnations4827 see? He was smart guy. He was right
The decline is now. Biden's Ukraine debacle is the beginning of the end of western Atlantic hegemony.
And all this gender stuff domestically is the corresponding cultural rot
When people in a society become obsessed with their own genitalia, instead of acting in concert to achieve goals, it's over
What makes this even better of a fail for you is that Vidal wasn't even the one to bring up Nazis in this debate. He only switched around the accusation already made. 🤡
Your failure to even mention the crux of the video, which is that Vidal and those of his posse throw nazi around willy nilly to defame and smear others. All the while these types fail to see their own backyards which are closer to nazism than they realise. Buckley let a weaker man get under his skin, the weak man pushed just the right button to make a good man bite. The smug vidal laughed all the way and had the upper hand. Buckley had far more scruples than Vidal, and his history and legacy are proof.
@@thewealthofnations4827 🤣🤡 I did address the crux. And as I pointed out and will for you again he only reverses an accusation used against his position. In other words he was called the Nazi first 🤡
Can you really not understand how this defeats your entire premise?
@@thewealthofnations4827 you are just butthurt that you are called a Nazi all the time and can't accept that it's probably accurate. Instead you do these weird things.
@@blakewisswell I haven't been called that thankfully. I don't take people seriously who throw "nazi" around willy nilly. Those who do don't understand history they just use it as a weapon against those they see as political enemies.
@@thewealthofnations4827 you clearly don't understand history and fascism. And the fact you dismiss people for calling someone a fascists proves it. You'd be the German citizen yelling at people to leave Hitler alone too.
Vidal went over the line and got a proper comeback. Sure calling someone a queer isnt the best move but it definitely conveys his point. He went further to let him know that they are still men at the end of the day and there is always the possibility of violence between men. The threat of violence keeps those kind of nasty things from being said between men. This is the way it has always been and should always be.
Vidal did not come in a good spirit. It showed. He didn't make any further allusions to Buckley being a "crypto nazi" so it obviously worked. Prime time television. Shame we can't get that now from our political or public commentators.
Vietnam WON!!!
If you consider Buckley's writing in the National Review, which he was the editor and chief of, it becomes immediately clear that Vidal is correct in his use of the term "crypto nazi". For example, this is Buckley's argument on whether white people have the right to suppress the black vote in the south:
"The sobering answer is Yes - the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. It is not easy, and it is unpleasant, to adduce statistics evidencing the median cultural superiority of White over Negro: but it is a fact that obtrudes, one that cannot be hidden by ever-so-busy egalitarians and anthropologists."
With all due respect sir the sentiment at the time was that African Americans were progressing at their own rate as more opportunities were granted to them. I've also read that people irrespective of their race who couldn't read were also barred from voting because if you're not well informed you shouldn't be allowed to make weighty decisions about who to vote for. If Buckley's comments stem from prejudice I accept that but I still think it is a massive leap to compar him in any way shape or form to a Nazi. He has had plenty to say on African Americans, he had plenty of African Americans on his show having meaningful discussions with black nationalists, black panthers, and more. If the man was a nazi racist he wouldn't have given them that opportunity to speak with him as equals on stage. In short I disagree with the conclusions you have drawn from one written paragraph.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Just because he had them on the show doesn't mean he believes in their existence or pursuits. I think any reasonable person would say yes, Buckley provided an amazing platform for polemic debate-he was a wasp and part of that is being well mannered, with the exception of witt. But to Vidal's point, thats the reason his racism is indeed cryptic-it hides behind the facade of sophistication, which eventually eroded at the end of the interview. So in my view anyone arguing for the (superior) white race to hold onto power in a society that is shared is a bigot.
And I may have quoted one paragraph, but this is youtube. I'm not gonna paste the whole essay lol. Although, here's another for yah.
“In some parts of the South, the White community merely intends to prevail - that is all. It means to prevail on any issue on which there is corporate disagreement between Negro and White. The White community will take whatever measures are necessary to make certain that it has its way.”
@Anthony James Randazzo at least provide a link so I don't read out of context. If Vidal felt he was a racist or a bigot he could have said so. He didn't say so. Nazi is a whole different level of a slur which is the basis of my video. Vidal was using any means to get a reaction.
He was commenting in his time about a society that is largely alien to us now. I think you are quite harsh in your assessment of the man and you ignore clear instances where Buckley was a defender of black Americans, sympathetic to their hardships, and encouraging of their development.
They're both shape-shifters. Buckley was a chief MK Ultra agent at the Tavistock Institute.
Did Buckley, call him a queer, on National Television… just wow 😯 😯 😯
He did. Very surprising from his usual on Firing Line but he wasn't dealing with a usual opponent. Never bite on the provocateurs but at the same time you should mount a defence if someone is slandering you as bad as Vidal did.
Generally i think you are correctly characterizing the left as using or stooping to such tactics however Buckley threw insults, underhanded and blatant, he called Vidal a queer and other things that would be unacceptable now...the right having the moral high ground is perhaps the original Big Lie.
Vidal stooped first and came in with the intent to stir. Vidal got his reaction and I think Buckley's emotional reaction is more forgivable compared to the actions of vidal.
@@thewealthofnations4827 the left just calls it as it sees it. You clearly just need to learn more about fascism.
@@blakewisswell Buckley was not a fascist or Nazi. Fascism peaked in Nazi Germany and now anyone that isn't left wing is a fascist. I wish more people would self-reflect.
@@thewealthofnations4827 no fascism isn't so simple. Yeah people should self reflect specially if they are being called a Nazi or fascist.
@@thewealthofnations4827 .... I think you are a little bit naive. Every country has Fascist/Right Wing parties, factions or groups. Sorry, but only Japanese and German Fascist factions were demolished in WW 2. At least for the time being.
Buckley was slightly to the left of John Birch society, and I might be wrong about that. He might have been, on some issues, right in line with them. WFB seem to agree a lot with the Strom Thurmond, Lester Maddox " Dixiecrats". A Right Wing " Jim Crow" old time confederate party.
You seem to think Nazism/Fascism is an odd, peculiar political disease endemic only to Europe. No, there are Fascist factions in every country.
Buckley only acted that way because Vidal was correct. Buckley was sympathetic towards American Imperialism going so far as to write that the US should attack China in the late 60s for no other reason than to retain US hegemony in SE Asia.
Source please? I would love to read it for myself and draw my own conclusions.
@@thewealthofnations4827 National Review January 12, 1965 pgs. 8-9. The call was repeated in another editorial June 1, 1965
He was not correct. The National Review asked if the US should preempt a strike on China's nuclear capability. That is different to what you are proposing was said. I think it is more likely the case that the US was aware of the threat that was China and the Soviet Union. You need to read more widely and you won't make the mistake you've just made.
I would rather be called a Nazi than what Gore Vidal was!
Vidal was correct. Next.
@@HarperSkylark absolutely not. You know little of Buckley if that is your view.
Buckley loves his own voice so much that he won’t let anyone else speak. 😂
@The Wealth of Nations if you get called a Nazi in the first place you may want to rethink some things. There's a huge difference between a young kid slinging that word at you and an educated adult saying it to you.
Vidal is educated in provocation and that's all this was. He attacked the pride of a man and got the response he wanted. Buckley should not have reacted the way he did, but Vidal is no saint in this. He provoked and pushed a man too far. And many follow the pattern of Vidal today throwing it around willy nilly.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Your bias is showing. Buckley attempted to provoke Vidal every bit as much as Vidal did Buckley. Intellectually, they were very evenly matched and could have continued to have an edifying (if passionate) debate. However, ultimately, one lost his cool and the other did not.
@Geoffrey Wieting Vidal had one agenda to provoke and shame the man. There is nothing intellectual about slandering someone and accusing someone of something so opposite to the truth. Your defending the indefensible. Buckley called him a pornographer, which at least was a true statement. Buckley had at least the decency to tell the truth when insulting Vidal.
Give me evidence Buckley was a crypto nazi? I'm listening.
😂 perhaps you haven't seen twitter lately, nazi accusations are thrown around constantly with little to no provocation
Why Buckley got offended?
How would you feel if someone made a baseless claim and called you a nazi?
@@thewealthofnations4827
I would laughed it off
@Sudipta Maiti you've never lost your patience? Sometimes people draw a line when someone goes too far and Vidal obviously went too far..
Imagine serving your country just to be called the thing you fought to destroy. Vidal stooped so low and it shows. When you attack someone’s character instead of their ideas you’ve already lost.
Didn't Buckley attack Vidal as a pornographer??? touche.
That's funny, because they both fought in that war and yet you only consider Buckley a hero serving his country.
Maybe Gore should have used the word " fascist" . WFB kept interrupting Gore Vidal. You see Vidal trying to read his script trying outline his position and Buckley hector and interrupted Vidal. Go back a few minutes before this you'll see WFB read from a script detailing his position. Gore Vidal allowed him to read it and did not interrupt him.
Doesn't the " Right" hurl the term " Commie" as a slur towards the left?
BTW, Buckley finally came to terms with the Viet Nam war and agreed he was wrong about the war. He finally acknowledged a few years before his death that America's involvement in the war was wrong and the U.S. should have never gone in. He also went on record stating America's involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq was wrong.
Nothing better than a reform drunk.
WFB wore the Uniform but never saw action. He, like Ronald Reagan, were stateside for the whole duration of the war. Vidal was in the Army during WW2 as well.
Buckley was wrong on practically every Major political issue of his era.
So how exactly do you point out someone's ideas are similar to Nazis without "attacking their character" by saying they are a Nazi?
Poor attempt at a Mid-Atlantic accent.
By whom?
@@thewealthofnations4827 I think you know.
@@TGiannini007 me, buckley, vidal? Why so opaque?
@@thewealthofnations4827 Vidal
There can be only two options to explain this phenomenon:
1. People on the Left are incapable of accurately interpreting the actions and ideas of others and thus they constantly falsely equate people on the Right with Nazis.
2. People on the Right faithfully adhere to many of the core tenets of Nazism.
I for one have never seen someone on the Right genuinely denounce Fascism or Racism in a way that would lead racists and fascists to exit the party en masse. It simply has not happened even once in modern history.
And so it is perfectly fair and accurate to say that not all Republicans are Nazis, but all Nazis are Republicans. There just isn't a single political party in America other than the GOP that would accept them or court their vote or minimize the issues they are passionate about in order to protect their feelings.
It's politically expedient to lump your opponents into the most undesirable category of person. The right throws the left the "commie" comments etc and what that means for them is Stalin, Mao. For the left when they call the right Nazis in their mind is Hitler. Stalin and Hitler have many commonalities.
The issue is the left brandishes people with these broad strokes of hitler and nazi and it is so far from the truth. That's why I call it a political tool used by Gore and many people today. It plants in people's minds undesirable associations that don't apply.
Trump was a great "fascist" scare according to the left but in four years he did nothing of the sort.
Republicans don't denounce racism, because they don't have to. The thing giving rise and fuel to racists if anything is the left, demonising people, critical race theory, blaming white Christian males for every social ill, etc etc. The big one is identity politics. The left is playing that game dividing people into racial groups calling out certain groups and we can see races forming factions and insulating.
What are the core tenets of nazism and how does the Republican party have any association with it?
Racism and fascism don't need to be explicitly called out. I suspect the left is a big fan of lip service, saying one thing but doing another. In my view they are more racist and fascist of the lot but by our 2021 standards not 1940's Germany.
Denouncing is domain of the left where words are everything and action is an afterthought, which allows their hypocrisy to continue unchallenged. The right in my opinion are action orientated people, and that should speak for itself.
@@thewealthofnations4827 You said all of that but completely overlooked the fact that there is no political party other than the GOP that contains openly practicing neo-nazis.
The only possible exception to this is that there might be some less than open nazis who would rather call themselves Libertarians than Republicans, but the Libertarian Party has never held true political power of the sort that anyone has really wanted to hold them accountable for anything.
Are you actually going to tell me that Nazi organizations don't exist in the US, that the KKK is not a real thing? Or are you going to suggest that none of those people vote or lobby the government or have any effect on society?
Total nonsense.
Republicans could, if they wanted, say that racism is no longer welcome in even the most thickly veiled form within the party.
The only problem is that they'd lose millions of voters.
You cannot gaslight me on this issue, I know what nazism looks like today, it isn't identical to 1930s Germany like many people want to suggest in order to categorically dismiss the accusation, but it is close enough that it is a real problem and no one on either the Left or the Right is doing anything effective to fix it. Including me. I have no idea how to put an end to Nazism other than to ostracize them and publicly shame them until they burn their copies of Mein Kampf and change their ideology.
@@VvSlaveofMetalvV i'm not trying to gaslight you. I'm not trying to dismiss your point either. Everyone in the US from far left to far right must choose between two parties otherwise their vote is largely meaningless except perhaps for the easing of one's conscience.
The Republicans don't entirely represent me and all my views but they are the closest. I have to compromise on some of my views. I'm sure for some on the far left the Dems don't align with their views entirely, they too must make a compromise.
To provide you with some perspective, the Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan advocates for a black ethno state. I'm confident most people agree this is contrary to the spirit of the United States and I must ask you which party he and his followers vote for? Do you think there is no one as undesirable as nazis in the left? You seem reasonable and sensible, but advocates on the far left believe in anarchy, "eating the rich," redistribution of wealth, and ending the order of freedom through capitalism to an order of force and control through hard communism. I suspect some of these elements you disagree with too, but these as mentioned must find a home somewhere in our two party system.
Nazis exist, white nationalists exist. Black nationalists exist but none of these have political clout, major support. They exist on the fringes, and they exist there because they are shunned and not supported which is what you said you do. I will say your point on them is overstated or their threat overstated. The only thing giving them more power and more followers is the left fuelling the flames or division and identity politics.
People are so free in America, so free to hold even the most undesirable views. They are not free to impose their will by force to assault or to hinder others. Our humanity is protected by law that serves as a bulwark against those who want to take by force or implement their views by any other means than pursuasion and democracy.
You really can't get rid of the views people have they are like a virus. You can educate people, offer a different perspective but you will never do any of that by shunning and shaming or ignoring. In fact all that achieves is bunkering these people in and reinforcing their echo chambers where as someone like you could potentially offer a release valve on that pressure cooker of an echo chamber.
If you fear white nationalists, fear black nationalists but these are natural tendencies and through time and education in a country built on the idea of E Pluribus Unum we learn to see our humanity first, our common citizenship, our shared culture, and perhaps our tribe, race, ancestry as more of an afterthought.
Maybe that is one way of looking at it. People in America some place greater value on common humanity, common culture and citizenship, others place higher value on race and gender etc etc. The two values are competing and will divide our nation, and potentially bring it to ruin if we do not reconcile these competing values.
@@thewealthofnations4827 Well said, hard to argue with. You are clearly not the common republican ditto head who isn't capable of nuanced thought. I can see you care about history, about what is fact versus what is opinion.
Unfortunately, just like the Nazis, intellectually honest people with integrity and nuanced ideologies are also a fringe group in the GOP. A large majority of people in the party have nothing but disgust for educated people who know how to properly debate. They want to see a good, old-fashioned WWF throwdown with smack-talk and buzzwords they can understand.
Of course there are plenty on the left who want the same kind of simplistic entertainment, and I don't agree with a lot of Leftists, especially the anarchist types, but mostly the right leaning corporate centrists who may as well be Republicans for all the progress they oppose.
Bottom line is this: I do not believe, and cannot be convinced that our current two-party system is the solution to the country's problems, whatever anyone's opinion may be on what those problems are, nothing is solved by this divisive tug-o-war that will only end with one group being drug through the mud.
I don't know if there is a better system within our capabilities, but I also don't think that my own incredulity should prevent us from trying to do better. We cannot settle for this and say it's the best we can do. We can do so much better.
Well said.
I think to be fair, if you watch all these debates, Buckley was trying to make a point and Vidal was trying to get under his skin. Vidal was very successful.
It is very hard to judge the virtue of either side in the context of the times, however, in my opinion, Buckley's points seem very out of touch to anyone other than a MAGA republican at this point.
Maga wasn't even a thing then so I really don't see how it can be brought in here. Buckley was a conservative and I know that id taboo these days. We can't lump anything and everything right wing as MAGA republican. There is nuance and diversity within the right just as there is on the left.
Sounds like 2021 democrats still saying this that party is absolutely pathetic..
What about them is pathetic? Care to elaborate?
There are those who are silent, yet they talk all of the time.