Cyberpunk Edgerunners: Cyberpsychosis - Therapist Reacts!
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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How does cyberpsychosis in the Cyberpunk world relate to psychosis in our day to day lives? Psychotherapist Georgia Dow uses the character Maine from "Cyberpunk Edgerunners" to give us some insight!
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The creator of the game has said that the inspiration for cyberpsychosis was akin to getting hooked on steriods. And in Cyberpunk 2077, there are little notes you find lying around that gives clues on why certain people went psycho. Not only is becoming addicted to the meds a factor, but also their overall mental health. Technically, they get as many upgrades as they want, as long as they have a healthy support system to balance out the stress
Cyberpsychosis is like school shootings: it´s a tragic event stemming from a mental illness that an uncaring society makes into something much, much worse because it refuses to dedicate the resources necessary to fix the problem.
appreciate you sharing this @RenegadeCarrot its very interesting and informative
@@GeorgiaDow Thank you for making this video! I learned a lot from your insight!
Most interesting thing is we even have something similar to cyberpsychosis even today, not connected to cyberware, but internet usage. You can especially see this with people that spend a lot of time on the net and don't have many real social connections. They, for example start to view Streamers or RUclipsrs they watch as friends and get overly attached to the idea of their view of them in their head. Some even go so far as to stalk people. I would say this is very much proof that our wetware is barely keeping up with the tech we developed and use. Or in short our monkey brain is not made for being able to interact with the whole world. It's made for connections with the tribe around us only.
@@ChaoticDragon2010 noice
Worst thing is: Maine didn't even kill Dorio. She got shot from behind while trying to save him. But Maine had only just snapped back into reality for a brief moment so he would never realize what really happened.
Which ends up being the catalyst to Maine going full Cyberpsycho VOULENTARILY (this also allows him an element of lucidity as he basically preps his suicide)
technically his rampage led to dorio's eventual death. he didn't shot her but overall responsible
the thing that snaps him back to reality is part of the bullet that went through dorios head, that why his glasses shatter
@@alihorda If you wanna point fingers it's actually Lucy's fault that Dorio and Maine died. She short-circ'd the Arasaka suit which brought the Trauma Team, Maine killed those guys and yeah that's what brought Max-Tac but I'd say he's secondhand responsible, and that's only because he had no idea what was going on.
@@CommanderNixon but wasn't David supposed to keep him unconscious so his brain was more maliable not sure honestly I could be wrong
In the TTRPG, Cyberpunk 2020, your character has an “Empathy” stat. Your EMP was used for a resource called Humanity - Basically, any time your character wanted to get cybernetics in their body, it costs a certain amount of Humanity. So, if you had 5 EMP, you had 50 humanity points to spend, and the lower you get to 0, the less “human” your character becomes until they finally succumb to cyber psychosis, and you basically hand over your character sheet to the GM.
thanks for this information. very cool
A clue that it's not purely tied to the cyberware, however, is that Humanity can be lost through other means, usually trauma, and can be regained with therapy.
@@Tyraeous therapy. The one thing almost no one can get in Night City
In pre Cyberpunk RED braindance was actually primarily used for therapy.
Worth noting, though, is that “simple” prosthetics don’t contribute to that.
The most cyborged up character in the setting (both 2020 and 2077) is a full cyborg in that he's 96% cybernetic. The thing that keeps Adam Smasher out of outright cyberpsychosis is that he's a psychopath to begin with. Can't lose one's humanity if one doesn't have any to begin with.
Yes but I think there's something else to it that allows him to keep his critical faculties and self-restraint as well as avoid stuff like jitters and hallucinations. There're plenty of serial killers and gangsters who were psychotic but still lost their self-restraint/reason when they became cyberpsycho. Also, no way the other mega corps wouldn't groom psychopaths so they too could have super cyborgs if that was it.
Maybe he is just special in some way.
Cyberpyschosis can manifest in various ways, some will lose their humanity, others lose touch with reality, there is even some with split personalities, some even become psychopaths. It really all depends person to person. There is not really one end result of a cyberpsycho as is varies a lot.
Who's to say he's not already a cyberspycho. And his just manifests as what we see.
His actions and goals align perfectly with the same outcomes of cyberpsychosis too....its crazy. Adam Smasher is literally a cyberpsycho on a leash for arasaka, that alone makes Arasaka a force to be reckoned with.
Cyberpunk is awesome
@@Supreme-King flesh is weak
For clarification, Maine didn't shoot Dorio, he missed. But Trauma Team Security took the opportunity of Dorio being distracted trying to help main to shoot her. It's even more tragic imo. She didn't die by his hand, she died trying to save him. Amazing writing.
more heartfelt yes upon other viewing I think you are right thanks
oh...at the first glance i though he kill Dorio, oh thanks god he didnt kill her
The guilt is still the same if not worse
@@GeorgiaDow The bullet that kills her passes through her head and shatters Maine's glasses. Had to re-watch the scene a couple of times to catch it, but its a beautiful piece of cinematography.
@@dan240393 you can also see Maine's gun actually going past Dorio's cheek. He was aiming for Max Tac
Its confirmed from game lore and the creator of the TTRPG That cyberpsychosis is 100% reversible and can be treated. It's the stress that cyberware puts on your body that makes it worse.
Losing your sense of self and humanity and place among others.
As long as you have strong empathy and sense of self and a support system you can recover.
Mental health treatment is the best way of treating it. But because of the state of Night City, is basically unavailable or solved with violence.
Also treating Cybersychosis gets harder depending on the person and their trauma, they all have different things that make them tick over to being a cyberpsycho and they’re all uniquely modded
that makes Maine even more heartbreaking
@@GeorgiaDow Another interesting tidbit from Cyberpunk lore. The saddest part is that anyone with just a few implants can suffer from it, but that doesn't mean they become violent.
Countless people suffering quietly alone with their mental state worsening as the world goes by them uncaring. At least in the Cyberpunk setting.
Mike Pondsmith even suggested that the reason V in 2077 and David in Edgerunners could get so much cyberware was because of their support network; David had a loving mother and the crew while V had their friends Jackie, Vic, and even Johnny Silverhand.
Scandinavian cyberware clinics of the 2020 timeline actually standardized on such a high level of pre-and-post-op therapy for people adding new cyberware that even most people who get their entire bodies replaced in Scandinavia (even more absurdly expensive there than in Night City) suffered absolutely no mental damage, or a bare minimum quantity of it. But, well, NC ain't Scandinavia.
I remember when I was watching Edgerunners and thought that Cyberpsychosis felt like it was a great analogy to trauma and the effects that come from that. Especially when they were going full "cyberpsycho", they would flash back and forth between the past and the present in a muddled puddle of not knowing what's going on and acting irrationally because you can't tell what is going on. It spoke to me.
I really do wonder what makes Adam Smasher different? As in, he can maintain self-restraint, not be affected by jitters/hallucinations, and retain his critical facualties.
Sure, he was a sociopath beforehand but that can't be all there is to it since there's no way the megacorps haven't tested that by chroming out serials killers or something. Not to mention the amount of cyberpsychos that come from dangerous criminals and gang members.
@@leobriccocola8141 there's a theory in the Cyberpunk 2077 fandom that cyberpsychosis is some kinda *other* thing, like the corps are trying to take over people who are overly chromed up, since Smasher is already full borg, and works for Arasaka, probably the most powerful corp there is, he's harder to get at. Why they're doing it who knows. And since their chrome is capable of being hacked it's not necessarily impossible.
There was also a reference that David might have been capable of becoming someone like Smasher.
Interestingly, Shaitan, who appears briefly in 2077 during a flashback, is also full borg like Smasher. The question is what makes Shaitan capable like Smasher is?
There's a lot of theories..suppose that's what happens when you have a verse this old as a TTRPG made into a game and anime.
@@leobriccocola8141 iirc Pondsmith said that Smasher is immune to it since... you cant drop your humanity to 0 if you start with humanity in negatives already.
@@leobriccocola8141 Smasher's already there, the difference for him is that he loves it.
The creator of cyberpunk confirmed that cyberpsychosis is mainly caused by significant trauma
I think the strongest connotations of cyberpsychosis and the path leading up to it is that of body dysmorphia experienced by body builders. Never being strong/big enough, always wanting to improve one's body, training to the point of illness/reduced health, compromising gains is a repulsive idea, always chasing an image/self-conception that can't really be achieved or even clearly understood etc etc.
Definitely in the case of Maine I couldn't think of anything else.
Yeah, combined with the way that David changes over the course of the series. It really hit with the way some of the characters really cautiously approach the idea of going for a "lighter build" or whatever the term they used was.
This is pretty well supported by Maine's hallucinations. He sees a smaller version of himself in that desert, on a road. That younger self comes to the end of the road, inable to push himself further than that. The chrome is meant to push his capabilities, and he never stops pushing, which results in cyberpsychosis.
@@Yattatt An Edgerunner/Shadowrunner can never stop running. Can never stop pushing their limits. He ran until he ran out of road. He always knew that day would come, and he couldn't face up to the reality of the damage he would do to the people he cared about in the process.
@@MrFelblood Very well put! There's not much I can add that you didn't put into much more eloquent words.
@@MrFelblood Not true. Some edgenerunners like rogue just laid back and became fixers
The reason David is able to take so many upgrades and go through so much before he starts to really crack is because he's a genuinely good person with a ton of empathy, in addition to just having a high physical tolerance for cybernetics. The "humanity" loss involved in getting chromed up isn't so much like it literally ripping bits of your soul out (this is what happens in Shadowrun, which is a spiritual/magical cyberpunk universe), but it changes how you perceive/interact with the world to the point you "dehumanize" in the way where you don't consider yourself a human in one way or another (i.e. you think you're better, or your mods let you experience the world in a way an unmodded human cannot and thus- you lose the ability the empathize) and when that happens you start not valuing human life and dissociating even if that's not your intent.
The mods themselves also cause physical/mental stress- which when combined with how they change your ability to interact with/perceive the world, exacerbates your alienation from other people and humanity in general.
To give you an idea- David's implant is a Sandevistan, which basically gives you short bursts of hyper reflexes/perception to the point the world feels like it's going in slow motion. But the Sandy works on demand. There's another boosterware called Kerenzikov which provides a lesser but permanent effect; and in the game's lore, you *permanently* see the world in semi slow-motion after getting it installed because that's how it works. You have to somehow adapt to living with that. That sort of input alone could cause someone to snap.
In PnP cyberpsychosis is preventable/treatable by "de-chroming" and using more regular prosthetics for a while and also, getting actual psychiatric therapy!
In the game cyber psychosis can actually be treated. There's a special force of cyber pshycho "hunters" called maxtac that are mostly composed of ex cyber psychos.
yes but killing them is cheaper than treating them...
Yeah, except their form of treatment pretty much can be summed up as “put a bullet between the nut job’s eyes”.
interesting ! thanks
@@GeorgiaDow I think that makes it even sadder because Maine could have asked for help. Don't know how easy or common that treatment is tho.
It's questionable how well that "treatment" works. The one maxtac officer you talk to is uncomfortably insistent on hearing if you liked the "feeling of [someone's] life leaving their body." Plus the Fixer that has you capturing cyberpsychos says she doesn't know of any truly effective treatment.
It wasn't Maine who killed Dorio. She was shot in the back of the head by either a cop or a member of the Trauma Team. Still a traumatic event for Maine however...
ahhhh missed that thank you so his guilt was that his cyber psychosis stopped him from saving Dorio
Yep, and the bullet that killed her is the same that breaks Maine's glasses.
@@GeorgiaDow I actually think he did. For one, the gun he uses is a tracking shotgun. Two, the shots pretty much line up with Dorio’s bullet wounds.
It is still hard to tell whether or not the cop ,shown shooting him before getting his head blown, shot her or if it was the shotgun. I believe the shotgun, but to each their own.
@@bloodbrothers6556 You can clearly hear the pistol shot sound effects go off before the bullets hit her man and even see muzzle flashes from the guns behind. How can they spell it any clearer? And Maine isn't specced to use tracking, he never once tracked the bullets, he clearly has a Body Power build.
@@AkyXf I think the implications are that we know he didn't but Maine doesn't, just that she and a lot of others are dead all around him now.
"people with psychosis are by and large not dangerous, violent. It's not something that should be stigmatised... it doesn't mean that this person should be put out of your life ... there's actually no greater chance of something violent or horrible happening compared to the mainstream population"
You are a beautiful person ❤made me cry again
ps: it's adorable you felt the need to censor fictional slang 😄you gonk
HAHAHA appreciate you and I just felt it was bad. And thank you for seeing me and being a part of my community
Not every Cyberpsycho is violent. In one of the tabletop rpg books, the players meet a character psychosis who is under the dilusion that his beautiful happy fiancee was kidnapped, when in reality he killed her decades ago and put her consciousness into his phone, and then his phone got stolen. He had forgotten all about what really happened and was blind to the reality of his situation.
@@kingofroses302 so your example of a non violent cyberpsycho is some dude who murdered his wife?
@@silverd20 You got me there. But I was more thinking about how afterwords he was not actively a threat to anyone else.
theres a lore blurb in the game (2077) where a doctor basically says this and most cyberpsychos just become shut in or stop interacting with people during their daily routines, and in night city if you wanted to not talk (with the Japan style vending machines and online ordering) one could go years without holding a conversation. The dude even got fired for releasing his paper supposedly explaining what the process is
Edit: so yea, most arn't dangerous. the problem is night city has a massive population moving into it at all times (with the mortality rate) that 1 in 1000 happens a few times a month. also, I'd figure its why the police are so brutal in eviction in night city
Hearing you get so choked up really got me again.
Like it still hurts to see even a fictional character go through this.
I'm so glad your going so into this series.
There is so much to unpack
so much so in this show
As many people have mentioned, Cyberpsychosis is an analogy to losing humanity and empathy. As a character loses what it means to be human (mostly because the world forces them to as they commit murders and steal just to make a living) they start losing their connection to reality. The cyberpunk genre is all about "high tech/low life". Your mental health just can't stand up to the constant hopelessness and the only escape is often to "go out in a blaze of glory". What you say about isolation and abandonment is spot on. In universe, cyberpsychosis is 100% treatable. The catch is that no one cares. It's easier to kill than to love and care.
Thankfully this world hasn't gone that far yet, thanks to kind people, medication and treatments. Those things are becoming very hard for the poor to get though, and it's up to us to make sure that the world of Cyberpunk never comes to pass.
or a version of that world where cyberpsychosis treatment is the first option
There is treatment in the Game/Show/Lore but no *cure*. So even de-chromed people still may miss it or relapse harder
People are already part of industry that will control people in the future. It is inevitable now
happens in our world too sadly, cops show up for mental health checks with guns and shoot scared mentally ill people to death.
A thing I want to point out is also the way he approached David while being in his last moments, the quote "keep running" was one of the most emotional things that came out from Maine since it was basically him passing on his own trauma to David, it was him telling that all this not treating his mental health was because he just wanted to keep going, to kinda prove he could endure it, that he would overcome it, by passing this on David he made David follow his steps, the tragedy lies in how Maine served not only as a father figure for David, he also served as a foil for him in the end
Maine passing on his trauma to David is really solidified in David keeping Maines arms. It becomes a visual representation that Maines ideologies continue to give David strength and are the thing that he uses to keep (literally and figuratively) fighting
@@UninspiredArtemis but it's also what makes him follow his same mistakes, both Maine and David had this sick idea that they were special and could resist the effects of Chrome and cyberpsycosis but in the end it just backfired on them
In universe there is psychological help available to those getting more and more chromed up but it's often expensive, lengthy, and only available for legal cyberware. So those on the lower rungs go without and use drugs to cope. A mirror into real life for far too many.
There are definitely illegal/unlicensed helps. The ripperdog in edgerunner tell david to lay off the chrome and gave him drug for example. But in david's line of work, the difference between top of the line chrome and just normal one mean death.
Cyberpsychosis is a pretty scary Concept but also an absolute Genius Idea of the Cyborg Canon.
In the tabletop game the attribute empathy matters a lot in terms of cyberpsychosis. The more empathy you have the least likely you are to develop cyber psychosis. And if you think about it David being raised by his mother, a loving mother for that matter, probably had more empathy than the people in his crew who most were people who grew up on the streets with no support system.
I think the saddest part is Maine's hallucinations. It's just him, as the normal person he could be, running away from Night City, but all the roads just end in endless desert. As his implants disassociate him more and more from other people, all that's left is his hopeless inability to escape.
This was a very enlightening on what real psychosis is. Also, big appreciation, I still think of Ep 06 often... Cyberpunk's Night City is absolutely tragic. Night City has its own culture of "chroming up" with cybernetics and other machinery, or you stay organic and get left behind. Its a tragic, nightmarish cycle because there is zero attempts to save any victims of Cyberpsychosis.
The fact that high school bullies can buy a "kung fu master" program shard to just run when they wanna kick the shit out of the poor kid at school is disgusting to me, as well.
Like, even people who are mostly 'ganic can still kick each other's asses handily if they get a shard that gives them preprogrammed access to martial arts skills.
From my own experience with psychosis, this depiction is fairly accurate to an episode of extreme psychedelic psychosis. I remember being told that I was licking my friends faces and getting violent with them as well. They had to restrain me and almost had to punch me out because I was so out of control. The worst part about being that out of control is that I don't remember most of it all I remember is the absolutely insane hallucinations that I was experiencing (viewing alternate realities, becoming my own father, dying and hearing how sad everyone was at my funeral, getting arrested by cops that didn't actually exist, seeing a future where i became a coke dealer and a cereal killer, having a love triangle with alternate versions of my friends) all while in the meantime doing things that were completely insane like rolling around on the floor while foaming at the mouth, punching things and making absolutely absurd and alien noises. Not to mention I also apparently tried to bite my friends nipple off. Definitely don't go overboard and mix a bunch of drugs ladies and gents, or just learn to cope with your mental disorders without them. They can make you do some real crazy shit. Although I don't regret that experience, if I never had it who knows how I'd be acting right now.
what a ride this comment was
Of all the things you saw yourself doing, I think munching down entire bags of Captain Crunch is the best thing you could have saw in that state
I think cyberpsychosis as a condition was really interesting to witness because the hyperviolence(the only thing that really sets it apart from real conditions) seems to not actually be unique at all to cyberpsychosis, and is more just a product of the conditions of the city. These people are forced to live in the dirt, doing inhumane acts on a daily basis just to make ends meet and stay fed. cyberpsychosis itself is almost supposed to be some kind of warning to us to make sure we regulate society and don't go down this route or else very real conditions that are typically non-violent could begin to resemble something like this. Maybe it was just so well written in the show, but I started getting the feeling that cyberpsychosis is just a label and nothing more. Doesn't even have much to do with the implants even. This is kinda supported by the only full cyborg being from over 50 years in the stories' past, but cyberpsychosis was still around then so I don't know if the original TTRPG intended it like this. Beautiful message nonetheless
Exactly. This is what I thought too. Forcing people to do whatever to survive (American capitalism/ stage 4 capitalism/ hopefully the end of capitalism) brings out only the worst in people. Capitalism says that we should all struggle as much as possible (with the exception of the elite ruling classes) to bring out the best outcomes but in actually it brings out the worst in people; as they don't see a way out without toxicity. Automation is coming. We should love automation because it's supposed to make our lives easier; instead it's solely for the profits of the rich. We can continue to have the society head towards only caring about making as much money as possible for the rich while we wait for the pennies to trickle down towards us until eventually a large percentage of the population can't afford basic necessities or we can curate society to work for humanity but still allowing upward mobility (which is becoming non existent due to capitalism) from hard work. Socialism has capitalist properties like markets (I didn't say free; capitalist market also not free) and the upward mobility of the beginnings of capitalism. Check out second thought on youtube
I really really felt the tragedy of it all with this episode in particular. Even if you go into this series knowing what to expect, character deaths are still such a gut punch because they take great lengths to show the tender love between characters and their inner psyches. The depictions are all too intimate so as a viewer I genuinely felt immense pain and hurt for all the characters and the trauma they are put through.
When you finish watching the series, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the relationship between the environment of Night City and its effects on the mental health of its residents. I think the show does an excellent job of demonstrating the oppressive and suffocating nature of Night City. For example, part of why David's mom succumbed to her injuries was not just due to the accident, but her body was too stressed and overworked to recover without complications. That's just one of the more subtle examples in the show, but I think it demonstrates just how hard Night City's denizens have it and the insidious, pervasive nature of that struggle.
I also have lots of strong feelings about how the show centered characters' relationships to each other, and how that played off of their collective trauma and struggles. It felt often like showrunners were presenting robust support systems, family, friends, and love as the antidote to Night City's crushing hopelessness. Characters are seen at their most hopeful and safest with loved ones; in contrast their darkest moments come when they refuse or lose those support systems. I just love that this show embraces the importance of human relationships, love, and empathy as critical tools for survival in a cruel and uncaring world.
Love your videos as always, looking forward to the next!
yes the city is an interesting one and some people have brought up wanting this video
It was a central theme in the game too, though it arguably led to a happier ending there.
First imoression i got from first episodes is when David is walking through NC alone (before and after his mom died). And you can se how people living there are distant one from another, its every man form himself. Nobody cares and only way to deal with its not to care back.
@@GeorgiaDow Also Georgia just found out your channel and subscribed. I know people are asking to cover a lot of other topics in Edgerunners, but if its not to much would you ever consider talking about Adam Smasher?? I'm very curious to hear your take on him as a professional.
Dying of old age in Night City is an accomplishment. Getting murked by one of the many gangs, getting worked into an early grave by the corporations, substance abuse and suicide are all more common causes of death than old age.
Two of the best game adaptations ever, and they both have a strong focus on Psychosis. Edgerunners and Arcane are both masterpieces.
The saddest part is That Rebbeca was at home mourning for her brother's death when all this went down. It was the reason why she promised herself if David went off the deep end She would be the one to put him down before it got worst cus she wasn't there that day to try to stop Maine since the info she got was that Maine pop off and killed Dorio when really she was shot from behind by someone else. So now the fact that the most powerful in the group pulled friendly fire is why she was so upset at David getting addicted to upgrades like Maine.
The Cyberpunk: Red sourcebook talks about cyberpsychosis from both a game mechanics perspective and goes a bit into real psychosis and a semi-realistic look at what it's supposed to be. The idea behind it and why cybernetic implants triggers/exacerbates it is that it's dehumanization. Once you start viewing the human body as just a collection of parts, both yourself and/or others, you lose your ability to empathize with others or think of them (or yourself) as people and are on the way to cyberpsychosis. It also takes pains to describe why this isn't the case with medical prosthetics. You're just keeping yourself whole, whereas voluntarily replacing an arm with a cannon is intentionally turning the body into a weapon.
thank you for taking the time to show me a bit about the lore behind it
An interesting fact about Cyberpsychosis in the original table top game this is all based off of by Mike Pondsmith, is the only way to fight against it is with how high your "Humanity" stat is. So while I think that all the input/output from becoming more and more machine-like is a factor, it's more that if someone is going through trauma or has lost enough humanity (love, balance, inner harmony) they are more susceptible to losing control, just like people in real life do the same except without implants/power. After all, a lot of the Cyberpsycho's in the game are people who Regina thinks you can save, just like David was by Lucy.
Yeah it's safe to say that by the time David and Lucy are freefalling, the last of his meds have clearly worn off and he's gone full Psycho but Lucy's kiss brought him back again, if it would lasted long term or not is another matter entirely but it at least brought him back and kept him going long enough to get the absolute crap kicked out of him by Adam Smasher, but long enough in order to do what he wanted, which was to save Lucy. In fact Rebecca says something similar in that Lucy might be the only person who could bring him back, which she kinda did.
One thing I've always loved about the game and show is they treat cyberpsychosis as a moral grey area. Most of the cyberpsychos you fight are people who just snapped under the weight of the world. Either from a personal trauma, to addiction, to having just a really bad day, painting their actions, perhaps not as justifiable, but as a reason as to why they went cyberpsycho in the first place. Painting the image, "this man isn't crazy, The world made him go crazy." That he'd rather burn the village down, then have to suffer another moment in it.
This is no more apparent then in the show, where David slips into cyberpsychosis when Lucy gets captured by Faraday. Where is pushed over the edge that he looses all grip of reality, until Lucy pulls him out. Which makes the whole condition far more believable and realistic IMO.
Gotta hand it Trigfer and CDPR for showing how tragic and real(?) cyberpsychosis is. Like as opposed oh theyre just crazy, but by showing the the tragedy behind them.
something funny is I've had something similar happen to me. I was having vivid dreams and when I woke up I couldn't tell what was real from what wasn't. there seemed to be gaps of time I couldn't remember. I started doubting everything in my head and began to slip in and out of what I saw as real and fake. nothing felt real, and I couldn't tell if I was grounded in reality. I was constantly searching for something to pull me back in but nothing ever came. I filled pages with writing of "I am here, I am awake, I am real." and every once in a while I'll "remember" something, just for it to have never happened.
“Is this my fault?” Truly heartbreaking.
Georgia, your sensitivity and awareness warms my heart, and you are a shining unique light in this world. My body has betrayed me! After so much mileage, I have fallen arches. Which CAN be serious! After all, it IS what killed Samson = ) This situation reminds me of the comic series "OLD MAN LOGAN", an alternate version of Wolverine. A group of 40 villains attack the X-Mansion and Logan can't locate the other X-Men. Feeling both protective and overwhelmed, he goes beserker and kills the villains...only to find that it was an illusion created my Mysterio, and he has actually just killed all of his fellow X-Men. This totally wrecks Logan, and it is SO heartbreaking. Years later he is old and non-confrontational. Refusing to pop his claws ever again. In spite of the evil and suffering all around.
Oh wow that's quite a tragedy to have to deal with. Thank you CL and for the constant support
@@GeorgiaDow Always = ) And I hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving!
As someone who has going through psychosis, this really touched my heart. The detachment of the physical world around you was described very well in Edgerunners, this has to be one of the best Anime of all time
It’s better the second time through I’d suggest trying the English/Japanese dub after you did your first choice
God, this scene knocked the wind out of me emotionally to the point where I wanted to cry but no tears would come out. It felt like my brain was stuck processing the events of the last 30 or so minutes.
I love how as the drama intensifies, there’s a noticeable style change that kicks up the shading, lighting, and facial detail. Eye bags, dirt, soot, blood, just become so noticeable. The eyes of Maine and David that have this piercing effect on the viewer, and the shadows cast over their faces makes the last few scenes so vivid.
Thank you for this insightful analysis and I loved the outfit too!
No wayy! I was waiting for you to review cyberpunk and here it is! Love it!
Small tidbit in case someone missed it. Dorio plunged into main for a reason, she prepared immunosuppresent (his meds) to keep him togheter, you can see her having it in her hands. And right before she dies she actually injects him. You see it in his shoulder sticking out. (In this video you see it shown few times). So it kept him actually "sane" well, not cyberpsycho at least. Just enraged? Thats why when he sees david later on he isn't psychotic. Just grieving. my thoughts at least
As soon as I learned you were covering Edgerunners this is the video I was very curious to see. Obviously Cyberpsychosis is a fictional (currently) condition, but it's the sort of condition that isn't implausible and I was really curious to see your take on it. In any case, you did not disappoint and this was very informative. Thank you!
sp happy you enjoyed it = ) thanks for being a part of my community
I love the (currently)
It's a fictional condition but it's based on a real one. Mike Pondsmith the creator of Cyberpunk has said the closest thing he compares Cyberpsychosis to is Roid Rage. In terms of the effects it has on people and what it can cause them to do, while equally being something that not all people who take steroids or in Cyberpunk's place Chrome up will suffer from. Just because you Chrome up doesn't mean you will go Cyberpsycho there are other factors that play into it. Like your personality, your support structure, how mentally strong you are etc.
Of course there's also the philosophical aspect to it too, in terms of the more you replace your biological parts with mechanical parts, the less man and more machine you become as a result.
Excellent video, choom!
Thank you kindly!
In the Cyberpunk tabletop game, Cyberpunk Red, the effects of Cyberpsychosis can be greatly reduced through therapy with a qualified professional, but not fully reversed. Very true to life.
Quite a few years ago I had been diagnosed with psychosis. At the time I didn't understand what it even was but I felt like vomiting after looking it up when I got home because it was legitimately things that I had experienced. I've had moments with friends where I had felt like I was completely in a different place, almost like feeling like I woke up from a dream even though it was sorta the opposite. Even then there are moments when I know, or atleast hope I know that I'm in real life where I will see and hear unordinary things. Nowadays I feel like it's only gotten worse for me, my friends don't understand it at all so most of the time because I don't want to ruin their days I'll stay by myself constantly pondering if I'm in some weird episode of my psychosis. Anyways thank you for making this video, I think it means a lot to people like me for those who don't understand it that much to learn about it.
Another large aspect is that, as was portrayed by Maine standing in front of the wall and or on the edge of a cliff in his Hallucinations, Maine's lifestyle had reached the end of it's potential. The lifestyle of a Cyberpunk is fast and short, and this was Maine coming to terms with the fact that he finally entered a situation that he couldn't get out of. Not just mentally, but also in regards to actually escaping the situation. David found himself against the same wall in the form of Adam Smasher later on. The sad reality about the show is that this demonstrates how effortlessly the corporations could have crushed their group at any time. They just allowed them to exist until they interfered or couldn't be used to turn a profit.
so heartfelt him still protecting david till the end
This was a great series, and I've never played the game.
I wish they'd have gone deeper into Darios character...she was super cool.
The thing with cyberpsychosis is, that it's a really complex and multifacetted condition and the actual psychosis is only the symptom the outside gets to see.
But Cyberpsychosis has elements of dissociation and the loss of one's sense of humanity and self, trauma and PTSD, Immune-system overreaction, neural overtaxation and inflammation and addictive behavioural patterns all rolled into one big ball of chromed up volatility, which then results in the high frequency of extreme violence when cyberpsychos are concerned.
It is also important to note that proper aftercare and therapy after augment implantation serve to prevent people going cyberpsycho. And even those that went over the edge can be helped (by strapping them down, turning of their augs and chipping them into a specialized BD with a mental health specialist) but this rarely happens, since most cyberpsychos are so dangerous that MAX-TAC can't risk the non-lethal approach.
I love the dedication and the effort put in to all her videos. Really separates her from other people that simply don't try as much.
Wow, thank you! Made my day with this comment thanks = )
I learned something about myself while listening to your commentary, thank you.
I hope you are in a better place. Take care of yourself and take it one step at a time.
What you said was very powerful, and not weak at all,
I love you and I know you can get better
Maybe one day I will be able to listen to a therapist get all positive and upbeat about how marvelous modern treatments and therapies are without my eyes rolling back into my skull.
She's right, there are incredible advances being made in the treatment and care of mental disorders and every last one of them are locked behind a paywall.
thats a true point all healthcare should be free to all. One day we can hope
Excellent video! I’d love to see a video with your thoughts on Rebecca as a friend to David and how you think she coped with losing her brother (honoring him with her new cybernetic arms) and how she handled David’s emotional spiral.
The whole rampage of Maine was unsettlingly. At points it seemed like there was something of him in there, trying to connect properly, but his body was just doing everything wrong. Like some guy snatched the strings away from a puppeteer and the puppeteer is trying to get them back but he just can't get a hold on them. Like that bit where he repeats in a monotone something he said earlier. He just can't process correctly. Terrifying.
One really troubling thing about Cyberpsychosis is the connection between the brain and the implants. Because they work with the conscious and subconscious mind in tandem, the moment someone gets an psychotic episode, the implants can misinterpret the signals from the brain, turning them into actual images in front of the eye ( as can be seen in 8:23 ) , implants that regulate the hormones shot all kinds of cocktails into the body, the ears hear things that aren't there even more realistic than in an actual hallucination and more.
It also works the other way where implants mess with the head on their own, be it because they are faulty or otherwise.
It becomes a vicious spiral that you can't get out of without proper help.
That's more or less how your normal organs work, they just don't have two foot retractable blades or the capability to slow down perception by 1/100th speed.
I would love for her to make an in-dept video about David, he is someone that struggled since the beginning and his cyberpsychosis was such a sad point, much more when it explains how he actually felt in the past or how he wish he acted and how it could have explained the regret he carried, about how his life could have gone, time and time again
Huh, I never made the connection that Maine pulled the trigger on Dorio. I'd always thought she'd been shot from behind by some goon while she was trying to snap him back to reality and it was her death (inadvertently caused by him not being at the top of his game and having an episode during a ill-fated raid) that brought him out of it and into his bottomless realization of grief.
That makes this scene MUCH more tragic.
Someone else felt it was someone else also. It could be the guilt in that the cyber psychosis didnt let him protect her and that is why he felt so much guilt. But you could be right on that point
@@GeorgiaDow It's possible. That particular frame isn't very clear. There is something mechanical looking in the shot in the top right while dorio's face is on screen, but knowing Studio Trigger's animation quality, if it was meant for it to be Maine pulling the trigger (hah) I would expect it to be more explicitly rendered.
Of course, this series was also very short so perhaps some unusual corners were cut. After all, after Dorio dies, I don't recall if there's even another soldier in the room. I think it just cuts to Maine asking if it was his fault.
Another great/accurate analysis of this cyberpunk masterpiece of a show. You look beautiful as always by the way.
THE HAIR omfg
I don't think Maine was the one who shot Dorio, Cause if you look at where his gun is compared to Dorio's head, would not be possible for maine to shot her, His gun is beside her head maybe even a bit behind her head, as she get shot, So I think what happen was that she jumped in front of Maine as one of the cops shots towards him, and She takes the bullet in the back of her head, as you see blood spray from her head towards Maine, but if Maine had been the one shooting her, the blood would have sprayed on the back of her instead she get shot in the back as she dies protecting Maine.
yes I think it is right. His guilt was in not protecting her cause of the psychosis
@@GeorgiaDow Yea, I can see that. Maine Loved Dorio, and not being able to protect her is an guilt he can't bare. Also Maine is trying to give her an proper funeral, as in his mind and what he sees, She is laying on an pile of sticks and wood, when in reality she is laying on an pile of gas tanks that he shots which creates the massive explosion that kills him in the end. He went out with an Bang.
just to mention since the show didnt really say this but cyberpsychosis triggers more in people who have underlying mental illness and the cyberware can enhance these effects which is also seen in david when he starts having flashbacks from his PTSD when his cyberpsychosis started taking over.
I love your videos!! I hope you’ll make a video about Johnny Silverhand From cyberpunk 2077.
Just finished the anime and of course feeling that mini-depression that comes with its ending. Watching you revisit and explain the emotional stuff from the show helps ease that feeling. Just found your channel btw, you got a new subscriber 🙂
It's incredibly possible to treat "cyberpsychosis" but the sheer violence and ferocity that the patient has during said state makes it hard to simply treat them considering most of the ones we see in game and in the anime are armed to the teeth which makes the only option is to call MaxTac and just put them out of their misery
I really appretiate that she's speaking out about the truth of pschyosis. Personally I suffer from schizoaffective diagnosis. Yeah, I suffer from hillusonations in all forms and mood swings and I've been villianized by plenty for this condition. Hell the treatment from other because of this condition brought about me suffering from CPTSD. Just because someones brain chemistry is off and they act strange or do things that don't make sense doesn't make them a threat. I may get upset or just plain angry but I literally have NEVER attacked anyone. I hate the thought of violence because I've been the victim of it too many times. I manage to keep a handle on myself thanks to meds and therapy and neither of those are a sign of weakness.
thank you for sharing your story I am sure it will help others feel less isolated to know they are not alone. I hope you are feeling well and have lots of nice people who support and care about you for you.
I think the corelation between Cyberpsychosis and Augmentation is the digitalisation of the Senses we take for granted.
I mean having all your body part switched from Organic Analogue to Synthetic Digital must be very hard for a human brain.
Even the RipperDock Vic says, after a Kiroshi (Eye) upgrade, the user feels nausea and discomfort for some days before adapting.
Yeah I imagine the upgrades must wreak neurological havoc and overtax the brain and nerves.
Not being able to trust your own reality is one of my worst fears.
Cyber psychosis is by far the most interesting thing that cyberpunk introduced us to. Sadly in game it’s not as prominently featured as the anime, but I love how it’s portrayed as chaotic, but focused.
I think that V have enough to deal with all those psychiatric effects related to that relic such as hallucinations and character changes because he is literally merging with another persona. So in his case maybe ciberpsychosis is not that traumatizing
In game I remember being sent to hunt down cyberpsychos
@@lberghaus technically to rescue them for treatment. Killing them was only supposed to be a last resort.
@@porche220291 idk if it's head canon or not but it's actually often stated that V doesn't really go nuts because the psychological toll is shared with Johnny and the physical harm is being countered by the relic.
It's crazy how realistic the idea of cyber psychosis is
I hope you are ok, Georgia. This show seems to have affected you more than normal. Hope you are doing well :)
yes I am sick, thank you for noticing. I should be better in a week. = )
Cyberpsycosis reminded me a whole lot of Madoka Magica. Won't say what (to avoid spoilers) but if you've seen the show (especially Rebellion movie) its pretty much the same thing.
Love both shows!
Georgia is on cosplay path again. I am hoping she doesnt chop off her arm to get chromed-up for like 7th Cyberpunk video :D
HAH = )
Tin foil and neon/fluorescent/UV friendly hockey tape. $10 cyberpunk/Winter Soldier cosplay.
From the most recent version of Cyberpunk ttrpg:
Cyberpsychosis is defined as a loss of empathy for others and a corresponding loss of self-regard or sense of self preservation. Subjects have trouble emphasizing with themselves or others as "real." Instead, they start to see themselves or others as collections of parts instead of living, breathing organisms. This is basically a form of dissociative and depersonalization disorder.
According to the Mayo Clinic: Dissociation is a mental process of disconnecting from one's thoughts, feelings, memories, or sense of identity. The dissociation disorders that need professional treatment include dissociative amnesia, dissociative fugue, depersonalization disorder, and dissociative identity disorder. Traumatic events that occur during adulthood may also cause dissociative disorders. Such events may include war, torture, or living through a natural disaster.
Depersonalization disorder is characterized by feeling detached from one's life, thoughts, and feelings. People with this type of disorder say they feel distant and emotionally unconnected to themselves, as if they are watching a character in a boring movie. Other typical symptoms include problems with concentration and memory. The person may report feeling ‘spacey' or out of control. Time may slow down. They may perceive their body to be a different shape or size than usual; in severe cases, they cannot recognize themselves in a mirror.
Developing cyberpsychosis is not triggered merely by putting in cyberware. It is in the voluntary removal of a functioning body part to replace it with a machine. It is generally not normal to voluntarily cut off a limb or remove a functioning body part. Putting in an earring involves some self-harm, but on a level that is barely discernible to the person doing it. It also does not require the removal of a body part. However, voluntarily choosing to replace a working part for no other reason than aesthetic or functional advantage requires that the user already be able to get past the qualms of cutting up one's body voluntarily.
Cyberpsychosis comes about when the subject begins to compulsively alter the body beyond the human baseline. Seeing the body as a thing-a form of Dissociative Personality Disorder-they change it without thought.
Why this doesn't count for people who have non-voluntarily needed cyberware: Replacing a lost or damaged body part with a new cloned part or Medical-Grade Cyberware does not increase dissociation, because the replacement of the body part makes the person feel "whole" again, increasing their level of body awareness. Now, if they replaced that limb with a cyberarm with knives in the knuckles-that choice was voluntary because it was excessive augmentation, and will thus come with Humanity Loss.
Personally, I always thought that the imperfect flesh-machine interface had also something to do with it. Adding new abilities to one's body means creating new neural pathways, increasing the "weight" on the brain, which has to process signals it was not meant to.
The only issue with how you analyzed it is that in real life its been shown that surroundings can and do affect how people who have psychosis behave. In this universe the vast majority of people who eventually succumb to it are in there fighting near constantly which tends to make them more violent then others. The non violence does get shown with david near the end even though he was being forced to fight. So going off of this assuming people who chrome up in ways that are not meant to be used for combat that would mean they might not be violent cyberpsychos but the ones who are doing it purely for combat are more likely to become violent ones in the lore. And following that they become seen as dangerous. Its honestly really freaking tragic.
yes a valid point for sure
So what I'm getting is that the episodes of psychosis (barring the traumatic events) are relatively expressed by the design, intent and usage of the 'ware. Does that seem an accurate reading?
@@puddel9079 use possibly because of you have combat based ware you would be seeing more battle. That kind of stuff.
There's a pop star named LIzzy Wizzy or something in the lore that made a complete body switch, all chrome, and staged it for show. She didn't appear to be affected until you have that mission where she suspect her boyfriend to cheat on her. I don't want to spoil it but it is an example of how it can still affect people in a domestic non violent context.
Such a great video, thank you so much!! Helping me deal with the emotional damage of Cyberpunk Edgerunners
I loved your style Georgia! Very cyberpunk! It's actually immersive in the topic 😂
Thank you!! 😁 i tried
Cool nomad V cosplay, and thanks for making such an informative video : )
in the game its said cyberpsychosis is basically alienation caused by your augments, and the amount of augmentation doesnt matter, you could just have a augmented ankle and if you feel alienated from everyone for it, youre a cyberpsycho
it could be either the fully murderous kind you usually see ingame, or just somebody afraid and hiding because they think theyre a freak
The thing that a lot of people don't get about cyberpsychosis (in the TTRPG) is exactly what you're saying: It's actually entirely treatable under certain situations. Therapy, downtime, or relaxation or just willingness to reduce power all help. 'Non violent' cyber psychosis (in the most recent version, in Cyberpunk Red) may have a empathy cost, but its entirely curable. (Literally just trauma from surgery or dealing with a rapidly changing body) Or if its to fill something missing (Such as say, a sex reassignment cybersurgery) can restore humanity.
Similarly, getting a prosthetic doesn't make you less human as detractors have said (that'd actually help you cure empathy loss) It's that you're replacing something human with something specifically used to make you better at killing people or better than people in some way. It's tossing aside humanity for raw power. I.E. if your arm is a machine gun, it 's not like owning a gun, you can put the gun down, you can take it to the range, but then put it away after. Your arm is literally a murderous weapon, a flex or a thought could make you shoot someone, because its controlled by your mind. A moment of thinking about how much your friend pissed you off may literally cause you to shoot them because you're rigged and adjusted into a physical weapon.
It's kind of frustrating how its depicted in the show and CDPR video game.
The video game has many instances of V bringing the CyPsys in alive so they can get treatment and also many in game articles where there are doctors utilising different methods of treatment and cures. +the game is set after a bunch of information from the og tabletop was lost due to the Blackwall
@@oakleyraverty1030 We've seen post fall of the blackwall with CP Red, and CyPsys is still represented really bad, especially as...most cyberpsychosis isn't 'going mad and shooting people' its uh, getting extremely depressed and going to therapy in that. They also didn't lose treatment options, really, as most of those were just general medical knowledge doctors knew--the destruction of the internet had little effect on it.
2077 while fun, created a very incorrect dialogue about what CyPsys was in the tabletop in general.
I played a Shadowrun character who went by Payload who suffered from cyberpsychosis, in part inspired by my own expirience of psychosis. Payload was originally born under the name Lorena Armstrong into a relatively cushy corporate life, with their parents managing a manufacturing plant. When they were 17, an accident during a tour of the plant instantly killed both of their parents, and completely mangled their body below the waist. They were rushed into a 6 hour life-saving operation, part of which involved the doctor installing a pair of cyberlegs originally intended for somebody else, though during the operation the corporation's PR damage control team selected their parents as the perfect scapegoat to blame the accident on, and subsequently retracted their credentials, leaving them without any insurance coverage. When the doctor learned this, she gave Payload two options: She could either reclaim the cyberlegs, almost certainly killing them in the process, or she could claim that Payload died on the operating table leaving them legally dead, and have them use their newfound anonymity to serve as a courier for illegal drugs and cybernetics to pay off the debt for the legs. At this point they started going exclusively by the street name Fleet (the identity shift also led them to realize they were agender). They worked as a courier for 3 years, and then moved on to being a Shadowrunner (the Shadowrun equivalent of an edgerunner) for another 2 years (at this point replacing their left arm when they got shot, as well as developing an addiction to a combat stimulant called Jazz), before moving into almost exclusively bounty hunting for another 4 years, replacing their remaining arm and taking on the street moniker Payload.
I always played Payload as having a very complicated relationship with their mortality, after all they literally needed to buy their life back at the age of 17, and I imagined that manifested as Payload trying to concretely ascribe values to human lives, originally by how productive they were (being raised corporate contributed greatly to that), which led to them viewing life as a sort of game of survival. Attributing value to lives led them down the path of bounty hunting, which led them to start valuing themselves specifically on their ability to kill quickly and efficiently.
I always played Payload as being pretty gruff but masking that with a professional facade when dealing with clients. They are in perpetual denial of their mental illness, but part of them does really want to get better, espeically when they're reminded of the fact that their path doesn't really have an end goal and inevitably leads to death, but generally the denial kicks in and stops that line of reasoning from going anywhere. They have an interesting relationship with other people, in that they view their coworkers as an extension of themself, as without their coworkers, they would be much less efficient. They crave connection, but whenever they try and connect with somebody, it all circles back to the fact that they have known only violence, and never know what to talk about or feel, which makes them feel sad and confused, which then usually drives them away from people again. I'd be curious to hear what you think, and how you think such a background would affect a person!
I remember back in the table top rpg, where every character has different levels of tolerance to cyberware represented as points, and each implant took away a certain number of points from your overall tolerance, with the number ramping up with the more powerful the implant. Now the interesting part about this cyberpsychosis occurs when you've fully gone below 0 representing the full loss of humanity and empathy towards others. And in the case of Adam Smasher in the anime, who is seen as a monster when Lucy tries to quick-hack him, tells me that the reason he's capable of sustaining 96% of his body being completely converted is that in the beginning, Adam never had humanity or empathy to lose to begin with.
So he remained the same while he progressively grew into more of a monster.
... you would LOVE the character "Regina Jones" in Cyberpunk 2077. ;-) She is a former reporter who has taken it upon herself to support a research program which seeks to treat Cyberpsychosis. A pity Edgerunners takes place in the year 2076, but I suppose the events in the series tie in nicely to the need for that program in the first place.
Honestly I don't think it was Maine who shot Dorio, more likely it was the police officer on the ground, firing wildly. If memory serves - Maine was using a semi-automatic shotgun. That's why his glasses broke - the bullet flew through Dorio and hit him relatively harmlessly. But still - she was the person who always grounded him. Seeing such a person die would send anyone over the edge. .... did it get dark all of a sudden? 🙂
Also - love the hairdo you went with for this video! Your entire getup is very close to what the vanilla V(alerie) of Cyberpunk 2077 looked like! 😲
We were introduced to the concept of cyberpsychosis 30 years ago with the Cyberpunk roleplaying game...the show did a fantastic job of showing what it would look like to watch it happen to someone. For us way back then it was a statistic to be avoided...on one hand we wanted to be stronger, faster, smarter, or have less lag when jacking into the "Net as a way of making our characters "more effective" in the game, but didn't want to dance all the way across that line...the cartoon showed what that line looks like and how easily it can be crossed without realizing it.
You about made me cry listening to your voice waver to your emotions on what happened to main. It really shows how heart breaking the show is. Thank you for the video.
thanks, I'm crying again
this show ripped my heart out and stomped on it and I still enjoyed every moment hanging of the edge of my seat.
Someone else on Reddit pointed out a connection to PTSD, and Mike Pondsmith (the creator) pointed out that "It took you 20 years, but there it is!" and went on about how Johnny Silverhand would blame his dark acts on "the Hand," and things like that. Basically, cyberpsychosis isn't from the chrome, it's from trauma and they blame it on the chrome. That's why you see vets go Cyberpsychotic so often. Why you see people who've lost everything go Cyberpsychotic. Why David ended up going screaming over the edge eventually, after he popped a civvy.
As someone with PTSD (yes, I'm in therapy, medicated, and have a wonderful support group), that really hit home with me, and it made the TTRPG, video game, and anime hit that much more home with me. It also made David's arc in particular, and Lucy bringing him back from the edge really hit (and hurt) that much harder, since I have a wonderful partner (who even wears her hair super similar to Lucy) who does that for me. Now, I don't have psychosis or whatever, I just have **really** bad PTSD and some other stuff, and she (and the rest of my support group) really take care of me. I'd not make it without 'em, there's no doubt in my mind.
More Cyberpunk episodes please! Really good observations on Cyberpsychosis. I'd LOVE to see an episode on Adam Smasher.
I think Trigger did a really good job establishing the character within the scope of about 3 episodes, and clinching the series with: "This exo-suit mcguffin is really big, expensive, etc. etc." and Smasher's reaction is just an instantaneous "This suit sucks lmao". Perfect bad guy
Parts of this should be an audio log out ad in the next Cyberpunk game.
I won't say the moment was shocking. I know the setting well enough to realize 'oh shit, he's not going to be able to dial down, much less pull back is he?' and what the inevitable result of that would be... but it still hit like a truck. Heck if anything seeing it coming. Knowing how that song and dance nearly always plays out... it kind of made it worse, since I kept asking 'will this be the moment?'
Then of course it goes and happens again with David.
I enjoy how you’ve cosplayed as the character you are talking about. Also the way you talk and engage with topics is entertaining but also easy to understand and process. Good stuff!
This is an amazing and insightful video, and your reaction to the material really adds to the impact. Thank you.
Just binged watched whole series, I liked it alot
Being scared is a weakness. And this world punishes that feeling.
The creator of the setting, Michael Pondsmith, has gone on record several times to state that cyberpsychosis isn't really a symptom of extreme cyber usage and more a symptom of the dystopian nature of the setting's society. It is called out in the source material and the game that the vast majority of cyber psycho's aren't the ultraviolent encounters heavily reported on, they are people with only one or two implants such as a liver or a kidney or a heart that was acquired to treat an underlying medical problem who then withdraw completely from society. It is more a symptom of a lack of social support systems. Mechanically in the tabletop game it is represented by a characters humanity score, and very notably losses to that score can be recovered by literally going to therapy. Yes the introduction of artificial systems does cause some loss there but you are more likely to run into things within the setting that traumatize the character and those are far worse overall. Cyberpsychosis as a mechanic and a feature of the setting is more a glaring dig at what happens when society abandons people under the profit motive and we all become far less empathetic, loose emotional support structures and live within a system that devalues us to the point of profit points. It always was a societal and political critique of what Pondsmith and the other writers thought were serious problems.
Though therapy is an option to treat cyberpsychosis, what happened to David was unavoidable. It wasn't just trauma and psychosis, it was his brain being poisoned and fried to the extreme and getting pumped full of drugs over and over desperately trying to stabilize his brain. Like what the Ripperdoc said, once his last dose ran out he was gonna slingshot right into insanity. The only thing that got through the hallucinations was the voice of the woman he loved.
This is why I love these sci-fi stories with worlds that are so close to our own. Experts and professionals are able to look and give real-world context. Cyberpunk as a genre is generally dark and can be triggering, but being able to face these dark subjects in an fictional world can be helpful
Been waiting to watch these, after I finished the series. Great video. Love your analysis of these shows
hope you enjoyed it
@@GeorgiaDow I did!
I saw a doctor reacts to Cyberpsychosis. His approach was to talk of the impacts of metal in the blood, and too much feedback.
I think it’s interesting to take multiple explanations together. A physical and mental one.
As someone who is now going sober from alcohol, I had many times of blacking out and doing all kinds of idiotic outrageous dangerous things and feeling like Maine did when I finally get back to reality. What happened here?? Did I do all this??? I lost an amazing friend from my most recent blackout which was the last straw. My body is fully awake and going but my brain, my real personality, is cut off, and I'm essentially the total opposite of who I am. That is what I imagine going cyberpsycho is like, losing control. It is scary. Honestly this show came to me at the perfect time to help relate to my problem. Thank you for breaking this down.
I wish you the best on going sober and thank you for sharing your story as it will help others who are going through it right now.
That's such a good point about the character of Maine, he's the archetypical "strong man' and leader who loses his shit... I feel like a lot of pertinance of this anime is it's exploration of archetypes and shadows wihtin the framework of Jungian Psychology... I wonder what his take would be. He said he spoke to patients who believed they lived on the moon... That fantasy would be almost like a braindance of a person in psychosis... Your emotion is brimming... I can sense your passion and intelligence...
As I Understand it from the various Forms of Cyberpunk, The Videogame, the Anime and the Tabletop RPG, Each having their different ways of expressing the core concept, The Idea of "Cyberpsychosis" is basically Psychosis as she describes it, but with extra Steps. It's basically people Developing the Symptoms of Psychosis, often with violent results, due to 2 Major factors piling up on each other:
1. The Replacement of their own body when it's not Medically Necessary (Medical prosthetics can never Cause Cyberpsychosis, only Elective Replacements for the sake of Augmentation). Causing the people who get Cyberware to slowly start seeing themselves as little more than Interchangeable parts. And when someone sees themselves as nothing but Interchangeable Parts, it becomes hard to think anything else of other people as well (And when your Sense of reality breaks, and you still see everyone around you as nothing more than parts, that's when the violent stuff happens)... The end result is a loss of Empathy. The people affected can no longer really GET other people's feelings, and at the same time it becomes harder for them to share and express their own, leaving them isolated from any Emotional support structure they might have had... The Anime Does a Decent Job of showing us this with David, Notice how is attitude completely Changes after the time skip, he becomes almost robotic and Emotionally dead in demeanor.
2. The Corporate Dominated World that is Cyberpunk. This Part is more relevant to Real Life, as it's a thing that's Happening. As Everything gets commodified, and Corporations get Bigger and Bigger from doing everything in their power to increase their profits and cut Costs, Life just gets worse for everyone. Everything gets more expensive, People need to work more to just get their basic Necessities, and Standards of living just keep plumetting... Eventually people are kinda forced to get into a mentality of "I have my own shit to deal with, I don't have the time or resources to help YOU", Which in the end has the same result of Loss of Empathy and emotional support structures that could prevent Psychosis from Hurting anyone... Again the Anime does a good job showcasing this when they show David's mom Needing to basically Steal Cyberware from Corpses and selling them on the black Market to make ends meet, and then David being Denied being allowed to see his mother in the Hospital because her Medical Insurance Package does not cover Visitations... Think about that for a Moment, they Make people PAY to have the right to See their family in the Hospital... That Woman is an EMT and she couldn't get an Insurance package that lets her son see her when she's injured! No Wonder People in that world can't Find the time or Energy to help and support each other!
Combined the two Factors Give us the why of Cyberpsychosis, It's F-ed up, but it makes sense... Oh and Both games make one thing very Clear that the Anime didn't: The Solution to avoid Cyberpsychosis is Therapy. There's no Ambiguity about it in the 2077, When you read the Reports and Texts relating to the Cyberpsychosis Questline, it's made VERY Clear that for every last one of them a Lack of therapy is what caused them to go into Cyberpsychosis, and if you Take them out non-Lethal it's also how they'll get better. The tabletop RPG Does the same too, the Empathy and Humanity Stats in the game that you loose every time you get a new Implant can both be recovered with therapy (Which of course Costs more than the implants themselves!)... So there's Lessons to be learned from this franchise that Relates to our Real lives.
Watching Maine go through this was rough. Honestly I feel bad for all of them. It felt like, halfway through, no one was going to make it out of this and well pretty much right?
"From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me; I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the blessed machine. Your kind claimed your flesh, as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass the you call "the temple" will wither and you will beg my kind to save you... but I am already saved; for the machine is imortal. Even in death I serve the Omnissiah." - If you know where this quote is from then you are awesome!
I always love your cosplay in every video! It's so good😄
I love how you talk about the subject as if we are living in this universe. Watching the show, I was pissed at him, but it makes sense the way you described it. Feeling like you're week when you're use to being so strong is a tough lose people cannot deal with in day to day life
Apparently there was a man with a heart condition that required him to have a pacemaker that didn't let him change heart beat. So when he was angry or scared his heart beat would not change. This caused him great distress.
There's a nother story of a husband who suddenly got really agressive with his wife and kids. Turned out he had a brain tumor and he went back to normal after it was removed.
Now imagine that your heart lungs and parts of the brain are mechanical. Imagine if part of your brain is artificial and doesn't process adrenaline correctly. Or an implant is poking at a part of your brain that should not be poked. Or a mega corp desided to put a subliminal messages in their implants to make you buy their new cola drink. Also there's something weird about installing a cannon in your arm.
We are meat robots piloted by ghosts, having an UN healthy body is going to have an effect.