I was trying to install new shoes on my ‘69 Coronet using the brake tool Uncle Tony spoke of. After an hour and a half of frustration I asked my dad for help. Using a screw driver and pliers he got it done in 5 minutes! Thank you for the memory!
Can't ever look at drum brakes without remembering the little diddy my daddy taught me about shoe placement, " Johnny want's a haircut just like mine, short in front and long behind "!
That works with he Bendix design, which most of the cars and trucks used back then. With the leading and trailing brake design, which started becoming popular in the late 70's and used on most cars and light trucks today, the bigger shoe goes to the front. Just wanted to make that point for those who aren't aware of the different designs.
Some excellent tips on drum brakes. I learned somthing even after servicing my own cars for 40 years. I liked hearing all the positive things about drums, trying to think of a negative...one thing if they are not adjusted the same side to side, if you lock them up you will spin out.
Same here. Started messing with cars in the mid 80's, so plenty of drum brake work. One thing I do different than Tony is to use a very light touch of anti-seize on the brake shoe contact points, and the adjuster threads. White lube will wash away or melt away.
Sir, the bonding on my breakdrum fell off completely, when I checked the fluid was leaking over the breakshoe so I thought that may have caused it to detach, but when I replaced it with a new pair, it happened again, both bonding fell off from the shoe, what should I do?
us older guys generally dont have a huge problem with drum brakes.i suppose its because we have done so many over the years.just dont let them get hot & they still work well.they cant be too bad if the majority of big trucks on the road still have drum brakes from the factory to stop 80k pounds.but yes disc's are much simpler to install & maintain.perhaps its just what you get used to working on.wes is a good guy.i love his channel as much as UTG.
Most of the newer trucks on the road have actually switched over to disk, I work on city buses and the majority of our fleet are all disk brake now, they hold up better to repeated stopping.
Tony, take that star wheel all the way apart, lube clean and lube those dirty (brake dust) threads up. One more thing close up the opening end of the return springs where your screwdriver spread them open, and make sure the bracket where the cable runs through is seated in the brake shoe, then test the cable and arm of the adjuster by pulling the cable and you should see the adjuster actually work. Good video for the younger generation
As someone who grew up as a teenager in the 70's driving late 50's and early 60's Buicks with those great Aluminum front drums I still look back on them and know how great they worked!
The problem most people think they have with drum brakes is that they dont work well, but the real problem is they dont maintain them properly. A drum brake in good working order will work great.
I use those tools Tony was talking about. They are so easy to use and do not slip. I recommend everyone use them. Screw drivers and vise grips will get the novice hurt.
agree, the drum brake pliers have a radius, like a spoon, that prevents them from slipping off. These springs are strong and not afraid to dig in a finger.
I'll note that the cheap ones are junk. My set from HFT has rounded off and are basically useless after maybe 2 or 3 jobs. My Dad's Snap-On (maybe Mac?) from the 70s still work awesome.
@TheBrokenLife Harbor Freight should rebrand "Central Machinery," "Maddox," or whatnot to "SnapOff." Maybe their stuff would be better if they decentralized their machinery and pneumatics.
Yeah, I hear the " those drum brakes are so hard to do blah blah" often but as Tony says they are no trouble really. When I was in high school in 80s we had a '61 and a '64 Thunderbird as well as a "64 Dart GT hardtop with the 273. We drove them all the time. All had drum brakes and like Tony said they all stopped just fine and I was totally confident in them. You did have to make sure the brakes dried out if you ran through some deep water but that was something I learned back when I was a small kid from my parents.
thank you Tony, i was literally just outside struggling with the drum hardware on my 97 xj. came in and watched this and just went and finished both sides in like 20-30 mins with a flashlight. now i can drive it to work tomorrow 👍
I worked for a front-end shop in the Bronx for years in the 80 and 90 did many drum brakes. They are very easy once you get the hang of them. I used the brake tools, not the plier type more like a bent screwdriver that the tip is designed to grip the peg .
@@toecutterjenkins I don’t remember west farms welding off hand, even though I probably walked right by it and never payed attention but I used to pick up parts and deliver to B&B
I'm having flashbacks to trying to replace the rear brakes on my Caravan. 10 hours. 10 EFFING HOURS! That did include a few breaks to walk away and calm down so I didn't burn it to the ground. This also included replacing a few bits that were corroded and not in the mood to move.
I always use brake tools. They are worth their weight in gold. If you’re just beginning, do one at a time. If you forget how it came apart you can use the others as a pattern.
Specially when taking the springs off that wired pliar type tool is a skin saver! Easy to use once you the hang of it. Like anything, a good quality tool is important. The cheap ones have to be worn in to catch the spring and lift it off. The good ones have a little ramp on the lip of the tool that gets under the spring without needing to be worn in with lots of cussing and fighting. Lol
One of the major problems with old drum brakes is corrosion and extreme wear of the backing plate shoe pads. Tony pointed out white grease for them. What's bad is when those pads get grooves worn in them, the shoes hang up in the grooves. This causes uneven initial application, pulling left and right when you first apply the brake pedal. Good used backing plates can be very hard to find, new ones even less available. I end up rewelding the pads and resurfacing them, lots of extra work.
Normally I'll just touch them up with a grinder if I find any that are that bad. It's been my experience that smooth is more important than level. Once everything is assembled, I like to grab both shoes (like you would hold a person by the face, one hand on each cheek) and move everything side-to-side. If it all slides freely and smoothly, it's good to go.
We redid all four of my drums almost ten years ago and they've really aged well. Worn evenly. Only been through one wheel cylinder. My brakes don't self adjust but I have a really good Bonney adjustment tool than makes it easy enough.
Thankyou Uncle Tony, always good to go back to basics for us guys that do that too often and the younger kids who are interested in doing it the right way.👍
Several times over the years I've worked on classic vehicles with rear drums that just had the brakes done by someone else but still had a soft pedal and low stopping power. When I go to check adjustment, I find the parking brake cable adjusted way up too tight, and the shoe adjusters turned way down. If you un-adjust the parking brake cable FIRST, make sure the cables are slack and the levers in the drums are fully released (usually stuck and have to be pried back) then adjust the shoes BEFORE re-adjusting parking brake cable. Re-doing these adjustments when they're out of whack always seems to bring the pedal back up to the top of its travel, firm, with more stopping power.. Just thought I'd throw out a tip... Another great video Tony!!!!!
That is correct back the hand brake off adjust the shoes then adjust the hand brake it will give you a much better brake pedal or as you Americans call it emergency brake I am aussie
Ironically, I just read that (adjust service brakes and then parking brake) in the factory service manual about an hour ago, so I know that he is correct.
I was a tire tech and apprentice mechanic at a Goodyear tire store in the 70's, and complete drum brake job included two things Tony didn't mention: turning the drum, and arc grinding the shoes. Drums need to have a smooth surface for best contact with the shoes, so the first thing that had to be done was to evaluate the drums for wear, grooves, out of round, etc., and put the drum on a brake drum lathe and machine the contact area of the drum back to good condition ( if there was enough metal left to cut it to spec). After cutting, the drum inside diameter was measured, and the shoes were put into the another work station on the drum lathe, and the arc of the shoe was ground to a matching diameter to fit the drum inside diameter. This insured that the full length of the friction material on the shoe made contact with the drum for best performance. Save an old self adjuster cable, it's are a great tool for use in changing sealed beam headlights. They often have a spring loaded trim ring to hold the headlight in the mount, and the spring can be difficult to reach to release. The hook on the end of the cable snakes into a tight spot, grab the spring, pull out with pliers, and the sealed beam is free to replace. And yes, drum brakes were prone to being flooded with water and rendered ineffective. Disc brakes solved hat problem.
I'm surprised you're still around and replying to this comment if your were arc grinding shoes back in the 70's. Most who performed that kind of work back then have died from mesothelioma. I agree about the front wet braking syndrome. It's was always interesting going through a deep puddle on one side of the street and having the steering wheel pull out of your hands after applying the brakes. I still believe experiences like that make for a better and more cautious driver, especially in inclement weather.
After going through deep water I always applied pressure on the brakes to help dry while driving. After drying out the brake pads you will notice the drag, let off the brake and drive on. They will work as normal.
If you don’t drive through water deeper than your wheel to ground height you should not have a problem with the brakes getting flooded. I currently have cars with 4 wheel drum, front disc, and even 4 wheel disc brakes and have not been in any situations where the discs performed any better than the drums.
I thought arcing the shoes went away in the 1960s? I saw the machines in the early eighties but we treated them like antiques. Turning drums, yes if they were kinda bad maybe. If you weren't on the rivets it would usually be unnecessary and if you were it probably would be too deep to turn clean. Cleaning the parts takes longer than mounting the shoes. cleaning the backing plate and adjuster parts takes time. How many stuck adjusters have been found... I liked the GM drums the best simple to deal with. Chrysler had that cable that would often be worn to a few strands or rusted nearly through. A good video would be on wheel cylinders, check, rebuild, etc.
Just a heads up, I did mine on a 66 f100 and a lot of the rear cylinders that you get from the big box stores are slightly too big, one of them even told me that the ones I had went on a falcon but that’s bs. Napa and Dennis carpenter have the right size small one for the rear that is listed as the factory replacement for a 66 f100, this was my experience anyways, just figured I’d save you a headache in case you get to the rears and the ones that you got don’t fit the backing plate.
If you have old parts, rebuild! It may be more tedious, but new drum parts are absolute trash and you will find them rusted and non functional or leaking again in a couple years anyway. Unfortunately, the rebuild kit will also be sub par but at least the rebuilt parts will fit properly! introducing chinesium to your vehicle is just opening the door for constant headaches.
Done a few the hard way then thought to myself gotta be an easier way. Assemble the shoes first then set it on the hub, nice. I also used a racthet strap to hold shoes together while placing springs. Takes more time but less spring tention. Im a hobbyist so not necessarily in a hurry. Great video ty.
Yep for the stopping power the drums can't be beat by disc which is why trackter trailers use drums. I was told somewhere that they would have to have something like 3 sets of disc brakes to have the same stopping. capabilities.
Awesome teaching video!!I'm a mobile mechanic (old school) and actually am doing rear brakes on 2002e150econoline this morning,this video will make my day so much easier!! Many thanks uncle tony!!
Just bought an original 65 malibu. On the way home from buying it, pedal worked great. Then drove it to the gas station with the kids to fill it up and bam. No pedal.
I’m 28 and I’ve been watching my dad mess with drum brakes for many years, when I bought my 72 dart it needed a complete brake system overhaul, after finding all the right parts I did every wheel on the car quick with minimal issues and he pretty was impressed.
Timely video indeed! I used to do these things in my sleep, but it’s been years. Today I went out to assemble the brakes on my Chevelle, which has been apart for a while. Sat there scratching my head. I do have the special tools, inherited from dad, I always use them . Also found out the backing plates had been put on the wrong sides, so I had to pull the axles and fix that first. Thanks for the tips
I have those "special" tools you talked about and love them over the alternative!!! The anchor pin tool is magnetic to hold the quarter turn cap, and has a screw driver handle. The pliers handle has a concaved end the captures the stud so it cant slip off, and the other handle that has the weird cup thing fits over the stud and the little ear slides under the springs for removal! Very smart designs
I've done drum brakes twice, once on my 69 mustang project car a few years ago and again last year on my 1980 Firebird Formula. The first side I start on always takes me 3-4 hours and then the other side takes maybe 30 minutes.
Seriously. The "old timer" tips are the best. Here we are saying four letter words, trying to put the springy thing into the other thing while holding the retainer thing with a third hand. Uncle Tony: "Screwdriver. Done."
Remember, put the star adjuster the right direction, you can put it backwards where you can't reach the adjustment thru the slot. With the brake adjuster tool, "down is out", or I as I always think, "down and out" to tighten the brakes. Up with the adjuster tool to loosen. Tighten the brakes till you can't turn the tire by hand, and back off the brakes (up with the tool) 10 to 12 strokes. Straight from the text of the Bendix and GM books. Automotive Restoration of Lubbock. Thanks Tony!
Even though I don't do any mechanic work, it's quite interesting to listen to you talk and show how to repair these mechanical wonders. Thank you for making these kinds of videos!
I love it Tony. You are so right about Drum Brakes. All my mechanic friends keep telling me to get rid of my 11 inch drum brakes on my Chrysler. I always tell them I like the drum brakes and they work great for all the years I have driven these cars. Great advice as always!
I don't put White lube on much of anything. Maybe on things you will be pulling apart soon, but if it sits long enough, it will turn into a concrete like substance. I use silicone grease. Like the video though, thumbs-up!
I like that you not only show how it’s done but that you explain the benefits of drums over discs. So many people insist that disc brakes are the only way to go and don’t realize that drums are fine for over 90% of drivers and driving conditions.
@@8000RPM. How many people are driving through deep water? I live in Minnesota the Land of 10,000 Lakes, and even going out hunting and fishing I rarely encountered water deep enough to cause problems with brakes and on the rare occasion I did encounter it, I would just ride the brakes for a short time and they were dried off long before I would be driving at any kind of speed where there would be any reason to be concerned.
good tips. if someone switched a car from drums to disk and didn't see an improvement they did something wrong or got a poorly designed kit. You also didn't mention wet weather performance. I remember having to ride the brakes to dry them out at times when you ran through water.
It's not more pressure for disk brakes. They need more volume. So a slightly larger bore master cylinder is needed after a disk conversion. I learned the big advantage to disk brakes after driving my '68 f100 through a deep puddle. I had to ride the brakes for 3/4ths of mile before I couldn't have prayer when stopping. Disk breaks just wipe the water right off, and don't get soaked.
Holy moly. I have been wrenching on my own vehicles for maybe 50 years. Just my own ! Your videos showed me more tricks and really good advice. Thanks Tony. I’m going to keep watching
Right on Tony! Before I worked in a shop, I struggled with drum brakes. Good thing to take the time to show these simple tricks that take a job from onerous to easy. I also wish you'd shown the trick of putting a hose clamp over the end of the parking brake cable housing, to retract the fingers and make it easy to remove. Nobody showed me that one, had to figure that out for myself... But there's one more thing that I came up with: I used to use Windex to clean all the dusty gak off the backing plate. If there was any grease on there, that got a shot of brake cleaner, after the glass cleaner had gone on. Glass cleaner does a great job on brake dust, and any of the water soluble brake fluids (non DOT 5). It doesn't kick the brake dust up and throw it all over the place like a shot from can of brake cleaner does Just throw a drain pan under the backing plate, hit the mess with some windex, dry it off with a rag. When you're done, wipe out the drain pan. Makes cleanup a snap. Easiest way I've found.
I'll never forget when I was showing my buddy how to rebuild his drum brakes after his wheel cylinder boot popped out while going down the road. I pulled the drum off and all the parts pretty well hit the ground, the look on his face was priceless 😂 people are pretty intimidated by the simplest things
This is actually how I learned... Pulled the drum off, & EVERYTHING hit the ground. Stepdad took me to get a chiltons & parts, then sat behind me explaining what to do..
This is why you always do them one side at a time if you at all possibly can. That way you always have a reference to work from. They're not complicated, but it's easy to get mixed up if you don't do them every day.
@@TheBrokenLife my stepdad laughed, & told me this after the fact. My car was a 78 malibu wagon.. His was a 64 impala 4 door, with ALL 4 drums (i didnt know this then, HE did. he coulda just snatched a wheel off and showed me). Said he KNEW i was gonna do it, & this was an excuse for him to show me to not rush, and follow directions. 😂
@@UNCFIPP I'd like to have seen your step dad change the wheel cylinders on that Malibu. He'd probably have been perplexed when he found out that they weren't retained by bolts.
Of course you and Wes make this look so easy after a few weeks ago I screwed around with my 96 Chevy truck drums for a few hours before I figured out where all the parts were supposed to go.
I actually tried to take pictures but they weren't much help. Everything was rusted, broken and covered in a thick layer of crud. Doing one at a time would have helped but stupid me forgot about that since it had been many years. Also the manual and most videos showed brakes that didn't have the same "random parts" as these did. I think I got it about right after the 3rd try. They work ok. Now if I could figure out how to bleed the last of the air out of the ABS module without an expensive computer scan tool.
The major advantage I've found with disk brakes over drum brakes is something that is more a regional or very limited time frame issue. Disk brakes still work after driving through a lot of over the wheel water. In the summer time here in SW Florida after an afternoon rain storm there can be many streets with lots of water on them and drum brakes don't like that kind of conditions.
It was standard practice on early motorcycles with the new-fangled disc brakes to have to gently apply them in a rain or when the rider went through a puddle to dry them out enough to actually stop the bike when needed. The rider had to anticipate when he'd have to stop. I wonder what's changed with disc brakes since then.
Excellent. I've been studying drum brakes for about a week and picked up spring pliers, a shoe retaining spring tool, and a brake spoon. I collect and restore old hand tools so I needed to get these. My 2006 Matrix has drums in the back. I find it very interesting learning how to use these obscure tools.
Now,, I'm piss off,,,,, with my self,, after years Installing the break shoes one by one,,,, Dang,, the good stuff I learning with Uncle Tony, Thanks!!
Thanks for this video Tony! I am sure it is very helpful to a lot of people. My take on the state of drums in 2022? If you can find NOS parts, working on drums is a breeze that just requires patience and attention to details. If you are working with new replacement parts? just throw the whole thing away and buy more new replacement parts. And by this I mean, if the brakes had stuff replaced in the last 15-20 years, there is no "fixing" them anymore, they rust like they were in the ocean and most of it doesn't fit right to begin with. I replaced some parts on my 1990 Ramcharger. The drums were good, the shoes were actually pretty good. but the rusted chinesium stuff made them bind and stick, and even lock in reverse. New parts. Brand new! Figured that would do the trick right? Some of them didn't fit as well as the old rusted stuff! And in the end, they didn;t work right anyway, no matter how I tried to get them adjusted. Stuff was cleaned, adjusted properly, and I had to take a wheel off once a month to mess with them. Screw chinesium junk. I replaced the self adjuster mechanism twice and they fit differently from each other and niether of them would work for more then 3 weeks. So I put a disc kit on it. i didn;t need a proportional valve because it's a heavy truck with plenty or rubber to stop them from grabbing, and I don;t drive that beast like a race car anyway. It cost me about $50 more then if i had to buy all new drums etc anyway, and no more BS. You can teach everyone exactly how to fix these things and how they work, but you can;t teach china how to make the parts properly, they don;t care anyway. I have my old police car to fix up yet, and didn;t plan on discs for that one. I will be watching swaps for NOS brake parts all summer. Hell, I would pick 40 year old, nice shape used over what you can get from the box stores now. Dangit, just thinking about that fiasco with my brakes two years ago is making me irritable! I don't live in the south, so my weather might have an effect, your milage may vary.
Timely...need to do the front brakes on my '67 F100...thanks for the refresher. Last set of drums I did was on my '73 Duster...that was YEARS ago...everything I've had since was discs...
Gotta be honest, as a forklift tech the best tool i ever bought for duo-servo drum brakes is SnapOn BT-11 and BT-12 - makes getting those top springs on and off effortless! I used vice grips/screwdriver for years and when another forklift mechanic showed me these it really changed the whole thing from "eugh, brake jib" to "cool, brake job"😂
My first dragster had Buick aluminum drums. I would frequently bust them open during hard braking. As they became difficult or impossible to find I decided it was time to switch to discs. The disc brakes made it far easier to stage the car (a benefit I was not expecting). The drum brakes would grab and release in a jerky fashion, making it difficult to land the car in the beams. The disc brakes would let me roll in smoothly and make a precise stop. I noticed no difference in reaction times with either brake.
Been in the game for 22 years now, I totally get the nostalgia for drum brakes on a classic car, making it period correct and all but the advantages of disk brakes outweigh any disadvantages they may have. Disk brakes are first and foremost far easier to work on, dissipate heat better, work better in the rain, and work better if you road race a vehicle. Drum brakes will give you one or two good stops, but after that you better hope you don’t get stuck in traffic, your brake pedal will turn to mush.
I'd love to see an A-B comparison of the same weight car from the same era, one with discs, the other with drums and see what the stopping distance from 30mph, 50mph and 60mph are and compare them.
Also if the drum brakes release quicker than the disc brakes, would there be quicker times in the quarter mile? I'd like to see those test results as well.
@@raynicolaas7679 Since the shoes in a drum have springs pulling them back they release fully. With discs there’s just the rubber seal in the caliper to hopefully pull the piston back slightly. And, besides maybe some small rattle springs there’s nothing to push the pads off. Then, after the discs get a little age they’ll release the pressure but still drag some because everything doesn’t really retract. It wouldn’t be a significant difference in times, but it all adds up and would be a bigger deal on a lower power car. It’s also pretty easy to feel. Can just remove a non drive wheel, put a couple of nuts on to hold the rotor and spin it. Then tap the caliper in and out a little with a rubber hammer and it should spin more freely since the pads will be knocked back. Then press and release the brakes and you’ll see it go back to dragging. If the brakes work really well they won’t drag much, but typically they’ll drag pretty noticeably. If it’s enough the hub is hard to turn you’ve got a problem.
You are working with chinesium, and yes, you are correct. Parts from 40 years ago can be rebuilt at worst. parts from the last 15-20 years(even if they are 3 years old!) are destined for the trash bin.
@@davenhla the wheel cylinders on my ford were worse than chinesium; original in Alaska. 30 years of snow and ice spray will turn the best metal into dust.
@@davenhla theyve been salting the roads here the past years because of unpredictable and brutal weather swings. 6+ month long winters and 90+F summers with high humidity and 22 hours of sun 😭
Where the hell were you when I was young and stupid? Now I'm old and stupid and and poor and tore up from doing everything the hard way. Thanks for sharing. Better late than never.
My 2005 Dodge caravan has drum brakes still designed the the same as your demonstration plate. Works great especially if you have a van load of folks. I have always liked drum brakes for stopping heavy stuff and if you want to hold and do burnouts setting still, you leave the rears in the 30% to 40% range. If they get wet in mud puddles or flooding streets to prevent stopping fade, just ride them a bit and dry the water off the shoes. I lived in Florida torrential rain storms, then Sunshine an hour later worked great drying them out or you could not stop soon enough. Just had to get used to the feel of setting the tension, run the shoes in about 100 miles, then use the auto adjusters in reverse to balance the shoe tension.
Uncle- Perfect timing!!! I just decoded the Dart fender tag after owning the car a year+... And my 1 of 100k(?) Slant Six Dart Custom, that Id planned to restomod with a carbureted 5.7, disc and axle upgrades, etc... turned out to be a 1 of 25 V1H Floral Top car!!! (Often referred to as a Mod Top but that was Plymouth) So...no Hemi, no discs, no mods...now it will just get a stock resto!!! The brakes are toast, so guess ill be rebuilding them all now!!!
Try and hunt down oem parts if it's that much of a sweetie. I've got a later model car I like to keep all the chalk mark crap intact on,and it is kinda fun to hunt down nos parts. Of course I kept the original worn out crap on a shelf 😆
@@MrTheHillfolk Agreed. Im def going with as original as possible now. The car is rough, needs a quarter from previous collision repair done poorly, plus some rust around rear window and driver side floor, but it'll get fresh sheet metal over time. Now i need ANOTHER car to put that Hemi in!!!🤣
I used to train my apprentices to do drum brakes this way at Toyota, I never thought about it on other makes. I’ve bought and used the tools, I can only think of a couple occasions when they made the job easier, pliers and long flat head for the win
You must have had shitty brake tools. Snap On brake spring pliers are ridiculously expensive for what they are, but they're leaps and bounds better that the soft metal $20 garbage from the parts store.
With experience and ingenuity a person learned to do a job well, but it must be that we just didn’t spend enough money on specialized tools, yeah thats the problem.
Exactly how I do them Tony and incidentally the front police brakes on my 54 Chevy use those Dodge drums I converted it to disc because it was getting hard to get the brake shoes and hardware. God Bless you Tony!
Ive done one drum brake job in my life, ('08 Chevy HHR rears)...real P.I.T.A. but got the job done.....the clips, the clamp, the cylinder etc etc. Sheesh!! Thanks Tony for another gtreat vid!
I work on antique motorcycles with drum brakes and cable actuation. You simply can't get the exact brake shoe material thickness you need to reline the shoe's. Once I reline the shoe's they will go into the drum but they won't have full contact with the drum brake surface. You don't want to ride the bike with shoe's that need to wear in until full braking power is achieved. To fix this I glue sandpaper to the drum braking surface, put the drum on, then adjust the adjuster until the shoe's contact the sandpaper. Then turn the wheel and adjust the adjuster to sand the shoe's to the drum. You can remove the drum to see the progress and once the entire shoe's show evidence of full contact with the sandpaper you are done. Then remove the sandpaper and glue from the drum. You will then have full braking available without wearing in the shoe's.
Thanks for sharing! Old school tech simplified!!!! I have rear drums on my ‘73 Mopar. I would never want to go disc on the rear. I’ve clearly been making too big of a deal of it!😀
Hey Tony I'm a young guy, figured most of that out on my own eventually I loved doing them when I worked flat rate cause everyone else hated em. For me, gravy. I never figured out those plier things either but in the kit I bought came a tool used like you do with that skrews driver except it's notched on the end to prevent slipping off that head while you pry. That one works really nice. I will say though not all drums are like that and can be serious pita.
This takes me back to about 1965 and a 65 Ford custom. Seems to me clutches lasted about thirty thousand as did brakes back then, four wheel drums. Dad disassembled all four wheels and didn't know how to fit all the pieces back in place. Still have a 58 Chevy truck sitting in my driveway. Love those old trucks!
That's how I've been doing um 40 odd years now, dad had one of those spring tools, tried it went back to a screw driver. Wheel cylinders for me leaked about 50% of the time (rust belt salt maybe?) so I always rebuild the things, until a guy I knew at the parts store told me what new ones cost. Probably can't even buy the kits anymore. Worth noting large trucks with a few rare exceptions (Mack had discs in front a while) use drums. As long as you don't ride the brakes going down a mountain, they don't fade.
I'm interested in a Ford obs f150. They come with disc in front and drum rear. After watching two videos where the owner had trouble with a conversion kit and then your discussion on drums, I will keep the drum brakes. I've done drum brake jobs over the years, I'm older than you, Tony, and I agree with you completely. I like 4 wheel discs on current vehicles, but it's good to keep the older cars as is. I have a friend who says hot rodders have a tendency to re-engineer until they screw up the car to where you can't rely on it - always carry enough tools.
My OE - aftermarket disc brake conversions tend to work beautifully...plus, they come with a free IFS and rear end upgrade! My Chevrolets may have a 5-4.50" lug pattern, but I'll take the junkyard over a Jegs catalog any day
I was surprised to discover I’d learned to preassemble the way you do by trial and error. The first time was on a 49 Chevy and I didn’t carefully lay the bits out in position when I took it apart. Fortunately I had the workshop manual. I never made that mistake again with subsequent Fords and Chrysler products variations.
Teach the kids, Uncle Tony. The only advantages I see of discs is the less fade and the need to ride wet drums. Dad used vice grips on the springs, but when I showed him "my" screwdriver trick he made me the brake guy at 13. One of the good memories.
Thanks for the tips love them.Being a self taught car mechanic it is great to see different angles and how easy it is when shown how.Thanks Cheers Stephen 🇦🇺
I bought a '72 F250. They had the front shoes on the back, had the left side on the right, and the leading shoes trailing! When you braked going forward, the brakes adjusted in!
Great video and thanks Uncle Toni! My two cents: Needle nosed pliers when used in reverse (applying pressure to open) hold the "Hold Down" cap perfectly.
I think where people get shy on this, is in the initial adjustments after getting them all together. Everyone I know of that does this for the 1st time goes too light, and they rely on the self-adjust too much to lock it in. Good video UTG, and yeah. Drums are simple and easier than people make them out to be.
My dad always taught me when adjusting drum brakes after a brake job(he was a master tech for several automotive brands throughout the 70's and 80's) to turn the adjuster wheel in until the wheel is completely locked, this kind of sets everything in line where it should be in there and the adjustment will remain more accurate, then use a pick or something and move the ratchet off the star wheel and back the adjustment off while turning the wheel until you get the desired drag, which is slightly more than one might think. After that they wear in quickly and the self-adjuster takes over from there and the pedal is always high and firm like it should be. Done that ever since and always had good experiences with drum brakes. No telling how many thousands of brake jobs that guy did over the years.
@@MattsRageFitGarage Same way my dad taught me, then you drive it around the block a couple times to wear the shoes in & the self adjusters take care of the rest. Too cool that you commented on that, because I was able to find your channel as well. Dang Cool Stuff you have going on man!
@@BareRoseGarage Yeah, I have tried just adjusting the shoes up until they felt good and it never works right, gotta get them tight then back em off and they work great. I think that is why a lot of people hate drum brakes, is that little known adjustment trick right there.
We used Velvet touch disk pads and they have no drag until they get hot but they really work at very high speeds. The same type full metal shoes are great for high speed stopping as the Police and Ambulance have used them for years .They will outlast any drum or rotor. The same factory here in Rochester has built Ceramic brakes and clutches for major brands to relabel .
I love it when the channels I subscribe to are "interacting" with each other :) I'm an idiot but still managed to R&R the rear drum brakes on my wife's Toyota, and the drums on my '68 Bug are crazy simple, but to be fair the drums Wes was working on yesterday seemed WAY over-complicated. As such I can understand his displeasure with drums.
I was trying to install new shoes on my ‘69 Coronet using the brake tool Uncle Tony spoke of. After an hour and a half of frustration I asked my dad for help. Using a screw driver and pliers he got it done in 5 minutes!
Thank you for the memory!
@6:54 when that screwdriver spring trick worked it blew my mind!!! That spring would have bounced off and hit me in the nuts!
Can't ever look at drum brakes without remembering the little diddy my daddy taught me about shoe placement, " Johnny want's a haircut just like mine, short in front and long behind "!
Mine taught me "big dog lives out back"
@@graham2631 👍
That works with he Bendix design, which most of the cars and trucks used back then. With the leading and trailing brake design, which started becoming popular in the late 70's and used on most cars and light trucks today, the bigger shoe goes to the front. Just wanted to make that point for those who aren't aware of the different designs.
I'm getting a tattoo of this! right next to all the different firing orders I have! you be surprised how much you forget as you get older!
Some excellent tips on drum brakes. I learned somthing even after servicing my own cars for 40 years. I liked hearing all the positive things about drums, trying to think of a negative...one thing if they are not adjusted the same side to side, if you lock them up you will spin out.
I've been doing drum brakes exactly like that for 40 years. Right on Tony !!
Same here. Started messing with cars in the mid 80's, so plenty of drum brake work. One thing I do different than Tony is to use a very light touch of anti-seize on the brake shoe contact points, and the adjuster threads. White lube will wash away or melt away.
What amazes me is, how many "experts" have RUclips channels and don't know these tricks. Maybe we are just to old...
Sir, the bonding on my breakdrum fell off completely, when I checked the fluid was leaking over the breakshoe so I thought that may have caused it to detach, but when I replaced it with a new pair, it happened again, both bonding fell off from the shoe, what should I do?
us older guys generally dont have a huge problem with drum brakes.i suppose its because we have done so many over the years.just dont let them get hot & they still work well.they cant be too bad if the majority of big trucks on the road still have drum brakes from the factory to stop 80k pounds.but yes disc's are much simpler to install & maintain.perhaps its just what you get used to working on.wes is a good guy.i love his channel as much as UTG.
Most of the newer trucks on the road have actually switched over to disk, I work on city buses and the majority of our fleet are all disk brake now, they hold up better to repeated stopping.
Tony, take that star wheel all the way apart, lube clean and lube those dirty (brake dust) threads up. One more thing close up the opening end of the return springs where your screwdriver spread them open, and make sure the bracket where the cable runs through is seated in the brake shoe, then test the cable and arm of the adjuster by pulling the cable and you should see the adjuster actually work. Good video for the younger generation
As someone who grew up as a teenager in the 70's driving late 50's and early 60's Buicks with those great Aluminum front drums I still look back on them and know how great they worked!
The problem most people think they have with drum brakes is that they dont work well, but the real problem is they dont maintain them properly. A drum brake in good working order will work great.
I use those tools Tony was talking about. They are so easy to use and do not slip. I recommend everyone use them. Screw drivers and vise grips will get the novice hurt.
An acquaintance lost an eye to the aforementioned tools. Right tool for the job is necessary
agree, the drum brake pliers have a radius, like a spoon, that prevents them from slipping off. These springs are strong and not afraid to dig in a finger.
I'll note that the cheap ones are junk. My set from HFT has rounded off and are basically useless after maybe 2 or 3 jobs. My Dad's Snap-On (maybe Mac?) from the 70s still work awesome.
@@driedbrainfreeze2149use safety glasses and no worries.
@TheBrokenLife Harbor Freight should rebrand "Central Machinery," "Maddox," or whatnot to "SnapOff." Maybe their stuff would be better if they decentralized their machinery and pneumatics.
Yeah, I hear the " those drum brakes are so hard to do blah blah" often but as Tony says they are no trouble really. When I was in high school in 80s we had a '61 and a '64 Thunderbird as well as a "64 Dart GT hardtop with the 273. We drove them all the time. All had drum brakes and like Tony said they all stopped just fine and I was totally confident in them. You did have to make sure the brakes dried out if you ran through some deep water but that was something I learned back when I was a small kid from my parents.
thank you Tony, i was literally just outside struggling with the drum hardware on my 97 xj. came in and watched this and just went and finished both sides in like 20-30 mins with a flashlight. now i can drive it to work tomorrow 👍
JOHN 3;16
I worked for a front-end shop in the Bronx for years in the 80 and 90 did many drum brakes. They are very easy once you get the hang of them.
I used the brake tools, not the plier type more like a bent screwdriver that the tip is designed to grip the peg .
Haha seems like nobody under 35 or so knows what that tool is.
I always get that question 😆
What shop did you work for? I used to work for lucky auto parts on westchester square, I probably delivered parts to you when I was a kid.
@NYPATRIOT West Farms Welding, it's next to B&B auto parts, which we primarily used at the time.
@@toecutterjenkins I don’t remember west farms welding off hand, even though I probably walked right by it and never payed attention but I used to pick up parts and deliver to B&B
I'm having flashbacks to trying to replace the rear brakes on my Caravan. 10 hours. 10 EFFING HOURS! That did include a few breaks to walk away and calm down so I didn't burn it to the ground.
This also included replacing a few bits that were corroded and not in the mood to move.
I always use brake tools. They are worth their weight in gold. If you’re just beginning, do one at a time. If you forget how it came apart you can use the others as a pattern.
Specially when taking the springs off that wired pliar type tool is a skin saver! Easy to use once you the hang of it. Like anything, a good quality tool is important. The cheap ones have to be worn in to catch the spring and lift it off. The good ones have a little ramp on the lip of the tool that gets under the spring without needing to be worn in with lots of cussing and fighting. Lol
especially if its got a self adjuster. some of them use left hand thread and must go on a specific side but look identical
@@Videoswithsoarinsame with the arm that turns the self adjusting star wheel.
One of the major problems with old drum brakes is corrosion and extreme wear of the backing plate shoe pads. Tony pointed out white grease for them. What's bad is when those pads get grooves worn in them, the shoes hang up in the grooves. This causes uneven initial application, pulling left and right when you first apply the brake pedal. Good used backing plates can be very hard to find, new ones even less available. I end up rewelding the pads and resurfacing them, lots of extra work.
Normally I'll just touch them up with a grinder if I find any that are that bad. It's been my experience that smooth is more important than level. Once everything is assembled, I like to grab both shoes (like you would hold a person by the face, one hand on each cheek) and move everything side-to-side. If it all slides freely and smoothly, it's good to go.
One old timer I learned from used to braze the backing plates and surface them flat, so the shoes would slide smooth on the backing plates.
Lol mine don't wear grooves because of the continuous self-healing rust layer. It's a feature.
We redid all four of my drums almost ten years ago and they've really aged well. Worn evenly. Only been through one wheel cylinder. My brakes don't self adjust but I have a really good Bonney adjustment tool than makes it easy enough.
Yes, Bonney is the tools Snap-on want to be.
Thankyou Uncle Tony, always good to go back to basics for us guys that do that too often and the younger kids who are interested in doing it the right way.👍
Several times over the years I've worked on classic vehicles with rear drums that just had the brakes done by someone else but still had a soft pedal and low stopping power. When I go to check adjustment, I find the parking brake cable adjusted way up too tight, and the shoe adjusters turned way down. If you un-adjust the parking brake cable FIRST, make sure the cables are slack and the levers in the drums are fully released (usually stuck and have to be pried back) then adjust the shoes BEFORE re-adjusting parking brake cable. Re-doing these adjustments when they're out of whack always seems to bring the pedal back up to the top of its travel, firm, with more stopping power.. Just thought I'd throw out a tip... Another great video Tony!!!!!
Yeah, you are so correct on that brake adjustment - there is DEFINITELY a correct sequence
That is correct back the hand brake off adjust the shoes then adjust the hand brake it will give you a much better brake pedal or as you Americans call it emergency brake I am aussie
Ironically, I just read that (adjust service brakes and then parking brake) in the factory service manual about an hour ago, so I know that he is correct.
I was a tire tech and apprentice mechanic at a Goodyear tire store in the 70's, and complete drum brake job included two things Tony didn't mention: turning the drum, and arc grinding the shoes. Drums need to have a smooth surface for best contact with the shoes, so the first thing that had to be done was to evaluate the drums for wear, grooves, out of round, etc., and put the drum on a brake drum lathe and machine the contact area of the drum back to good condition ( if there was enough metal left to cut it to spec). After cutting, the drum inside diameter was measured, and the shoes were put into the another work station on the drum lathe, and the arc of the shoe was ground to a matching diameter to fit the drum inside diameter. This insured that the full length of the friction material on the shoe made contact with the drum for best performance.
Save an old self adjuster cable, it's are a great tool for use in changing sealed beam headlights. They often have a spring loaded trim ring to hold the headlight in the mount, and the spring can be difficult to reach to release. The hook on the end of the cable snakes into a tight spot, grab the spring, pull out with pliers, and the sealed beam is free to replace.
And yes, drum brakes were prone to being flooded with water and rendered ineffective. Disc brakes solved hat problem.
I'm surprised you're still around and replying to this comment if your were arc grinding shoes back in the 70's. Most who performed that kind of work back then have died from mesothelioma.
I agree about the front wet braking syndrome. It's was always interesting going through a deep puddle on one side of the street and having the steering wheel pull out of your hands after applying the brakes. I still believe experiences like that make for a better and more cautious driver, especially in inclement weather.
After going through deep water I always applied pressure on the brakes to help dry while driving. After drying out the brake pads you will notice the drag, let off the brake and drive on. They will work as normal.
@@richarda996 Not so common common sense.
If you don’t drive through water deeper than your wheel to ground height you should not have a problem with the brakes getting flooded. I currently have cars with 4 wheel drum, front disc, and even 4 wheel disc brakes and have not been in any situations where the discs performed any better than the drums.
I thought arcing the shoes went away in the 1960s? I saw the machines in the early eighties but we treated them like antiques. Turning drums, yes if they were kinda bad maybe. If you weren't on the rivets it would usually be unnecessary and if you were it probably would be too deep to turn clean.
Cleaning the parts takes longer than mounting the shoes. cleaning the backing plate and adjuster parts takes time. How many stuck adjusters have been found...
I liked the GM drums the best simple to deal with. Chrysler had that cable that would often be worn to a few strands or rusted nearly through.
A good video would be on wheel cylinders, check, rebuild, etc.
Perfect timing I have to replace some leaking rear wheel cylinders on my '66 F100. Thanks again for the "how-to" vid.
Just a heads up, I did mine on a 66 f100 and a lot of the rear cylinders that you get from the big box stores are slightly too big, one of them even told me that the ones I had went on a falcon but that’s bs.
Napa and Dennis carpenter have the right size small one for the rear that is listed as the factory replacement for a 66 f100, this was my experience anyways, just figured I’d save you a headache in case you get to the rears and the ones that you got don’t fit the backing plate.
@@ryanhunt881 Thanks for the heads up. I am always leery of big box stores stuff.
If you have old parts, rebuild! It may be more tedious, but new drum parts are absolute trash and you will find them rusted and non functional or leaking again in a couple years anyway.
Unfortunately, the rebuild kit will also be sub par but at least the rebuilt parts will fit properly!
introducing chinesium to your vehicle is just opening the door for constant headaches.
Done a few the hard way then thought to myself gotta be an easier way. Assemble the shoes first then set it on the hub, nice. I also used a racthet strap to hold shoes together while placing springs. Takes more time but less spring tention. Im a hobbyist so not necessarily in a hurry. Great video ty.
@@DanEBoyd That's the only way to do it. It prevents mistakes and you still get to enjoy the experience.
I had forgotten how easy it was on my 67 chevy pickup, THANK YOU.
Yep for the stopping power the drums can't be beat by disc which is why trackter trailers use drums. I was told somewhere that they would have to have something like 3 sets of disc brakes to have the same stopping. capabilities.
I switched to factory front disc brake on my 68 442 and couldn't be happier. No brake fade here.
Awesome teaching video!!I'm a mobile mechanic (old school) and actually am doing rear brakes on 2002e150econoline this morning,this video will make my day so much easier!! Many thanks uncle tony!!
I mostly do Ford and I find the brake tool they make really helps with removal of the springs
Just bought an original 65 malibu. On the way home from buying it, pedal worked great. Then drove it to the gas station with the kids to fill it up and bam. No pedal.
I’m 28 and I’ve been watching my dad mess with drum brakes for many years, when I bought my 72 dart it needed a complete brake system overhaul, after finding all the right parts I did every wheel on the car quick with minimal issues and he pretty was impressed.
Timely video indeed! I used to do these things in my sleep, but it’s been years. Today I went out to assemble the brakes on my Chevelle, which has been apart for a while. Sat there scratching my head. I do have the special tools, inherited from dad, I always use them . Also found out the backing plates had been put on the wrong sides, so I had to pull the axles and fix that first. Thanks for the tips
LOL Saw the watch wes work video and had to retort. As a young guy, I love hearing tips like these. Thank you
I have those "special" tools you talked about and love them over the alternative!!! The anchor pin tool is magnetic to hold the quarter turn cap, and has a screw driver handle. The pliers handle has a concaved end the captures the stud so it cant slip off, and the other handle that has the weird cup thing fits over the stud and the little ear slides under the springs for removal! Very smart designs
Holy Hannah, I never thought of a magnetizedcup spring tool. I'll bet mine is magnetized next time I use it...
I've done drum brakes twice, once on my 69 mustang project car a few years ago and again last year on my 1980 Firebird Formula. The first side I start on always takes me 3-4 hours and then the other side takes maybe 30 minutes.
This is going to help so many people who really have no experience in drum brakes. Well done as usual guys.
Seriously. The "old timer" tips are the best. Here we are saying four letter words, trying to put the springy thing into the other thing while holding the retainer thing with a third hand. Uncle Tony: "Screwdriver. Done."
Remember, put the star adjuster the right direction, you can put it backwards where you can't reach the adjustment thru the slot. With the brake adjuster tool, "down is out", or I as I always think, "down and out" to tighten the brakes. Up with the adjuster tool to loosen. Tighten the brakes till you can't turn the tire by hand, and back off the brakes (up with the tool) 10 to 12 strokes. Straight from the text of the Bendix and GM books. Automotive Restoration of Lubbock. Thanks Tony!
Even though I don't do any mechanic work, it's quite interesting to listen to you talk and show how to repair these mechanical wonders. Thank you for making these kinds of videos!
I love it Tony. You are so right about Drum Brakes. All my mechanic friends keep telling me to get rid of my 11 inch drum brakes on my Chrysler. I always tell them I like the drum brakes and they work great for all the years I have driven these cars. Great advice as always!
I don't put White lube on much of anything. Maybe on things you will be pulling apart soon, but if it sits long enough, it will turn into a concrete like substance. I use silicone grease. Like the video though, thumbs-up!
I recently finished a disk swap on my truck (squarebody) and the advantages of all 4 disks are amazing
Good info Tony for most people do one at a time and take pitchers before taking apart unless you do it often.
I like that you not only show how it’s done but that you explain the benefits of drums over discs. So many people insist that disc brakes are the only way to go and don’t realize that drums are fine for over 90% of drivers and driving conditions.
If you go through deep water and try to stop with drums,.....
@@8000RPM. How many people are driving through deep water? I live in Minnesota the Land of 10,000 Lakes, and even going out hunting and fishing I rarely encountered water deep enough to cause problems with brakes and on the rare occasion I did encounter it, I would just ride the brakes for a short time and they were dried off long before I would be driving at any kind of speed where there would be any reason to be concerned.
@@todddenio3200 Point taken!
good tips. if someone switched a car from drums to disk and didn't see an improvement they did something wrong or got a poorly designed kit. You also didn't mention wet weather performance. I remember having to ride the brakes to dry them out at times when you ran through water.
It's not more pressure for disk brakes. They need more volume. So a slightly larger bore master cylinder is needed after a disk conversion. I learned the big advantage to disk brakes after driving my '68 f100 through a deep puddle. I had to ride the brakes for 3/4ths of mile before I couldn't have prayer when stopping. Disk breaks just wipe the water right off, and don't get soaked.
Drum brakes are self energizing. That's why there is a short shoe in the front. They take less pressure than disc brakes.
Holy moly. I have been wrenching on my own vehicles for maybe 50 years. Just my own ! Your videos showed me more tricks and really good advice. Thanks Tony. I’m going to keep watching
I have about five variations of that weird brake tool and have never been able to figure out how to use them. Glad to know I’m not alone.
Right on Tony!
Before I worked in a shop, I struggled with drum brakes. Good thing to take the time to show these simple tricks that take a job from onerous to easy. I also wish you'd shown the trick of putting a hose clamp over the end of the parking brake cable housing, to retract the fingers and make it easy to remove. Nobody showed me that one, had to figure that out for myself...
But there's one more thing that I came up with: I used to use Windex to clean all the dusty gak off the backing plate. If there was any grease on there, that got a shot of brake cleaner, after the glass cleaner had gone on.
Glass cleaner does a great job on brake dust, and any of the water soluble brake fluids (non DOT 5). It doesn't kick the brake dust up and throw it all over the place like a shot from can of brake cleaner does
Just throw a drain pan under the backing plate, hit the mess with some windex, dry it off with a rag. When you're done, wipe out the drain pan.
Makes cleanup a snap. Easiest way I've found.
I'll never forget when I was showing my buddy how to rebuild his drum brakes after his wheel cylinder boot popped out while going down the road. I pulled the drum off and all the parts pretty well hit the ground, the look on his face was priceless 😂 people are pretty intimidated by the simplest things
That's because they aren't simple if you aren't familiar with them
This is actually how I learned... Pulled the drum off, & EVERYTHING hit the ground. Stepdad took me to get a chiltons & parts, then sat behind me explaining what to do..
This is why you always do them one side at a time if you at all possibly can. That way you always have a reference to work from. They're not complicated, but it's easy to get mixed up if you don't do them every day.
@@TheBrokenLife my stepdad laughed, & told me this after the fact. My car was a 78 malibu wagon.. His was a 64 impala 4 door, with ALL 4 drums (i didnt know this then, HE did. he coulda just snatched a wheel off and showed me). Said he KNEW i was gonna do it, & this was an excuse for him to show me to not rush, and follow directions. 😂
@@UNCFIPP I'd like to have seen your step dad change the wheel cylinders on that Malibu. He'd probably have been perplexed when he found out that they weren't retained by bolts.
Of course you and Wes make this look so easy after a few weeks ago I screwed around with my 96 Chevy truck drums for a few hours before I figured out where all the parts were supposed to go.
Next time take pic before you rip it down ✌️
@@steveib724 and only do one side at a time ,so you can run around to the complete side and copy that✌️
@@MrTheHillfolk Tony put that last spring on upside down lol but I know he knows he's shit
I actually tried to take pictures but they weren't much help. Everything was rusted, broken and covered in a thick layer of crud. Doing one at a time would have helped but stupid me forgot about that since it had been many years. Also the manual and most videos showed brakes that didn't have the same "random parts" as these did. I think I got it about right after the 3rd try. They work ok.
Now if I could figure out how to bleed the last of the air out of the ABS module without an expensive computer scan tool.
@@steveib724 haha good catch ,Im on a phone and had it in portrait mode reading comments so I couldn't barely see it 😆
The major advantage I've found with disk brakes over drum brakes is something that is more a regional or very limited time frame issue. Disk brakes still work after driving through a lot of over the wheel water. In the summer time here in SW Florida after an afternoon rain storm there can be many streets with lots of water on them and drum brakes don't like that kind of conditions.
Great point. I've experienced this myself here in Naples.
Ha! Didnt see your comment till after I commented You are right
Absolutely. Having to drive a box truck full of tools in hurricane season gets rough in the rain with drums in Florida.
It was standard practice on early motorcycles with the new-fangled disc brakes to have to gently apply them in a rain or when the rider went through a puddle to dry them out enough to actually stop the bike when needed. The rider had to anticipate when he'd have to stop. I wonder what's changed with disc brakes since then.
Excellent. I've been studying drum brakes for about a week and picked up spring pliers, a shoe retaining spring tool, and a brake spoon. I collect and restore old hand tools so I needed to get these. My 2006 Matrix has drums in the back. I find it very interesting learning how to use these obscure tools.
Now,, I'm piss off,,,,,
with my self,, after years Installing the break shoes one by one,,,, Dang,, the good stuff I learning with Uncle Tony,
Thanks!!
Thanks for this video Tony! I am sure it is very helpful to a lot of people.
My take on the state of drums in 2022?
If you can find NOS parts, working on drums is a breeze that just requires patience and attention to details.
If you are working with new replacement parts? just throw the whole thing away and buy more new replacement parts. And by this I mean, if the brakes had stuff replaced in the last 15-20 years, there is no "fixing" them anymore, they rust like they were in the ocean and most of it doesn't fit right to begin with.
I replaced some parts on my 1990 Ramcharger. The drums were good, the shoes were actually pretty good. but the rusted chinesium stuff made them bind and stick, and even lock in reverse.
New parts. Brand new! Figured that would do the trick right?
Some of them didn't fit as well as the old rusted stuff! And in the end, they didn;t work right anyway, no matter how I tried to get them adjusted. Stuff was cleaned, adjusted properly, and I had to take a wheel off once a month to mess with them. Screw chinesium junk. I replaced the self adjuster mechanism twice and they fit differently from each other and niether of them would work for more then 3 weeks.
So I put a disc kit on it. i didn;t need a proportional valve because it's a heavy truck with plenty or rubber to stop them from grabbing, and I don;t drive that beast like a race car anyway. It cost me about $50 more then if i had to buy all new drums etc anyway, and no more BS.
You can teach everyone exactly how to fix these things and how they work, but you can;t teach china how to make the parts properly, they don;t care anyway. I have my old police car to fix up yet, and didn;t plan on discs for that one. I will be watching swaps for NOS brake parts all summer. Hell, I would pick 40 year old, nice shape used over what you can get from the box stores now. Dangit, just thinking about that fiasco with my brakes two years ago is making me irritable!
I don't live in the south, so my weather might have an effect, your milage may vary.
Timely...need to do the front brakes on my '67 F100...thanks for the refresher. Last set of drums I did was on my '73 Duster...that was YEARS ago...everything I've had since was discs...
Disc brakes are superior...PERIOD. Although I don't mind drums on the rear, I insist on disc up front.
Why?
@@doughanawalt7736 IMO,....Discs are the way to go,...period.
Gotta be honest, as a forklift tech the best tool i ever bought for duo-servo drum brakes is SnapOn BT-11 and BT-12 - makes getting those top springs on and off effortless!
I used vice grips/screwdriver for years and when another forklift mechanic showed me these it really changed the whole thing from "eugh, brake jib" to "cool, brake job"😂
My first dragster had Buick aluminum drums. I would frequently bust them open during hard braking. As they became difficult or impossible to find I decided it was time to switch to discs. The disc brakes made it far easier to stage the car (a benefit I was not expecting). The drum brakes would grab and release in a jerky fashion, making it difficult to land the car in the beams. The disc brakes would let me roll in smoothly and make a precise stop. I noticed no difference in reaction times with either brake.
Pontiac 8-lugs - Another great video! I have 8-lugs on my '62 Pontiac GP. Another reason to stay w drum brakes! Thanks Tony!
Love your no bullshit approach , truly a pleasure watching you in your element
Take care Uncle Tony and God bless
Been in the game for 22 years now, I totally get the nostalgia for drum brakes on a classic car, making it period correct and all but the advantages of disk brakes outweigh any disadvantages they may have. Disk brakes are first and foremost far easier to work on, dissipate heat better, work better in the rain, and work better if you road race a vehicle. Drum brakes will give you one or two good stops, but after that you better hope you don’t get stuck in traffic, your brake pedal will turn to mush.
Damn! Thank you!!!! I've fought with those things for ever... Thank You!!!
Five minutes for Tony, an hour for a knucklehead like me.
I'd love to see an A-B comparison of the same weight car from the same era, one with discs, the other with drums and see what the stopping distance from 30mph, 50mph and 60mph are and compare them.
Also if the drum brakes release quicker than the disc brakes, would there be quicker times in the quarter mile? I'd like to see those test results as well.
@@raynicolaas7679 Since the shoes in a drum have springs pulling them back they release fully. With discs there’s just the rubber seal in the caliper to hopefully pull the piston back slightly. And, besides maybe some small rattle springs there’s nothing to push the pads off. Then, after the discs get a little age they’ll release the pressure but still drag some because everything doesn’t really retract.
It wouldn’t be a significant difference in times, but it all adds up and would be a bigger deal on a lower power car.
It’s also pretty easy to feel. Can just remove a non drive wheel, put a couple of nuts on to hold the rotor and spin it. Then tap the caliper in and out a little with a rubber hammer and it should spin more freely since the pads will be knocked back. Then press and release the brakes and you’ll see it go back to dragging. If the brakes work really well they won’t drag much, but typically they’ll drag pretty noticeably. If it’s enough the hub is hard to turn you’ve got a problem.
Thanks for the tips! Never heard of a quick R&R on a drum brake though, wheel cylinders are usually mandatory and nothing but rust.
You are working with chinesium, and yes, you are correct.
Parts from 40 years ago can be rebuilt at worst. parts from the last 15-20 years(even if they are 3 years old!) are destined for the trash bin.
@@davenhla the wheel cylinders on my ford were worse than chinesium; original in Alaska. 30 years of snow and ice spray will turn the best metal into dust.
@@wobbles7915 eh, could be worse, you could live in the salt belt like I do. That happens after 2 winters down here.
@@davenhla theyve been salting the roads here the past years because of unpredictable and brutal weather swings. 6+ month long winters and 90+F summers with high humidity and 22 hours of sun 😭
Where the hell were you when I was young and stupid? Now I'm old and stupid and and poor and tore up from doing everything the hard way. Thanks for sharing. Better late than never.
I agree Tony! Screw driver method works slick. No special tools needed!
My 2005 Dodge caravan has drum brakes still designed the the same as your demonstration plate. Works great especially if you have a van load of folks. I have always liked drum brakes for stopping heavy stuff and if you want to hold and do burnouts setting still, you leave the rears in the 30% to 40% range. If they get wet in mud puddles or flooding streets to prevent stopping fade, just ride them a bit and dry the water off the shoes. I lived in Florida torrential rain storms, then Sunshine an hour later worked great drying them out or you could not stop soon enough.
Just had to get used to the feel of setting the tension, run the shoes in about 100 miles, then use the auto adjusters in reverse to balance the shoe tension.
Uncle- Perfect timing!!! I just decoded the Dart fender tag after owning the car a year+... And my 1 of 100k(?) Slant Six Dart Custom, that Id planned to restomod with a carbureted 5.7, disc and axle upgrades, etc... turned out to be a 1 of 25 V1H Floral Top car!!! (Often referred to as a Mod Top but that was Plymouth) So...no Hemi, no discs, no mods...now it will just get a stock resto!!! The brakes are toast, so guess ill be rebuilding them all now!!!
Try and hunt down oem parts if it's that much of a sweetie.
I've got a later model car I like to keep all the chalk mark crap intact on,and it is kinda fun to hunt down nos parts.
Of course I kept the original worn out crap on a shelf 😆
@@MrTheHillfolk Agreed. Im def going with as original as possible now. The car is rough, needs a quarter from previous collision repair done poorly, plus some rust around rear window and driver side floor, but it'll get fresh sheet metal over time. Now i need ANOTHER car to put that Hemi in!!!🤣
@@wheels-n-tires1846
Yup that's a perfect excuse for another project too, I've got about 3 of them because of that 😆
The timing of your videos are always in line with my projects, Thank You
Right again! My 57 D/G has all 4 stock drums and stops just fine at the end of the 1/4.
No nonsense straight forward drum brake instructions, Thank you, sir.
I used to train my apprentices to do drum brakes this way at Toyota, I never thought about it on other makes. I’ve bought and used the tools, I can only think of a couple occasions when they made the job easier, pliers and long flat head for the win
You must have had shitty brake tools. Snap On brake spring pliers are ridiculously expensive for what they are, but they're leaps and bounds better that the soft metal $20 garbage from the parts store.
With experience and ingenuity a person learned to do a job well, but it must be that we just didn’t spend enough money on specialized tools, yeah thats the problem.
Exactly how I do them Tony and incidentally the front police brakes on my 54 Chevy use those Dodge drums I converted it to disc because it was getting hard to get the brake shoes and hardware. God Bless you Tony!
Ive done one drum brake job in my life, ('08 Chevy HHR rears)...real P.I.T.A. but got the job done.....the clips, the clamp, the cylinder etc etc. Sheesh!!
Thanks Tony for another gtreat vid!
I work on antique motorcycles with drum brakes and cable actuation. You simply can't get the exact brake shoe material thickness you need to reline the shoe's. Once I reline the shoe's they will go into the drum but they won't have full contact with the drum brake surface. You don't want to ride the bike with shoe's that need to wear in until full braking power is achieved. To fix this I glue sandpaper to the drum braking surface, put the drum on, then adjust the adjuster until the shoe's contact the sandpaper. Then turn the wheel and adjust the adjuster to sand the shoe's to the drum. You can remove the drum to see the progress and once the entire shoe's show evidence of full contact with the sandpaper you are done. Then remove the sandpaper and glue from the drum. You will then have full braking available without wearing in the shoe's.
I always left one side together on the car for reference. I learned that the hard way when I was young.
Awesome Uncle T, thanks! Drums on front and rear of my 64 Corvair. Disc brakes? We don’t need no stinking disc brakes!
Thanks for sharing! Old school tech simplified!!!! I have rear drums on my ‘73 Mopar. I would never want to go disc on the rear. I’ve clearly been making too big of a deal of it!😀
Hey Tony I'm a young guy, figured most of that out on my own eventually I loved doing them when I worked flat rate cause everyone else hated em. For me, gravy. I never figured out those plier things either but in the kit I bought came a tool used like you do with that skrews driver except it's notched on the end to prevent slipping off that head while you pry. That one works really nice. I will say though not all drums are like that and can be serious pita.
In my experience with drum brakes only tear down ONE SIDE at a time that way if you forget how to put it together go look at other side.
This takes me back to about 1965 and a 65 Ford custom. Seems to me clutches lasted about thirty thousand as did brakes back then, four wheel drums. Dad disassembled all four wheels and didn't know how to fit all the pieces back in place. Still have a 58 Chevy truck sitting in my driveway. Love those old trucks!
Just bought a 1972 Lemans T37 (GTO) it has front drums thanks Uncle Tony you are awesome I think I will keep the Drums on it
I like the simplicity and the oldschoolnotsupermodernandboring-thinking.
Thanx U T
That's how I've been doing um 40 odd years now, dad had one of those spring tools, tried it went back to a screw driver.
Wheel cylinders for me leaked about 50% of the time (rust belt salt maybe?) so I always rebuild the things, until a guy I knew at the parts store told me what new ones cost. Probably can't even buy the kits anymore.
Worth noting large trucks with a few rare exceptions (Mack had discs in front a while) use drums. As long as you don't ride the brakes going down a mountain, they don't fade.
I'm interested in a Ford obs f150. They come with disc in front and drum rear. After watching two videos where the owner had trouble with a conversion kit and then your discussion on drums, I will keep the drum brakes. I've done drum brake jobs over the years, I'm older than you, Tony, and I agree with you completely. I like 4 wheel discs on current vehicles, but it's good to keep the older cars as is. I have a friend who says hot rodders have a tendency to re-engineer until they screw up the car to where you can't rely on it - always carry enough tools.
Big Buick drum brakes were among the best.
Good stuff!
Great timing, plan on doing my rear drums on the 98 XJ with the Chrysler 8.25. Thank You!
My OE - aftermarket disc brake conversions tend to work beautifully...plus, they come with a free IFS and rear end upgrade! My Chevrolets may have a 5-4.50" lug pattern, but I'll take the junkyard over a Jegs catalog any day
I was surprised to discover I’d learned to preassemble the way you do by trial and error. The first time was on a 49 Chevy and I didn’t carefully lay the bits out in position when I took it apart. Fortunately I had the workshop manual. I never made that mistake again with subsequent Fords and Chrysler products variations.
For the metal contact of the backing plate an air dry moly film coating works nicely as a base and corrosion barrier.
Teach the kids, Uncle Tony. The only advantages I see of discs is the less fade and the need to ride wet drums. Dad used vice grips on the springs, but when I showed him "my" screwdriver trick he made me the brake guy at 13. One of the good memories.
Wow and thanks, I am working on big drum brakes (to me) on my one ton van. thanks for the tricks
I’ve done a few in my day and no matter what still get ya thinking! Cell phones take plenty of free pics nowadays 😎
Thanks for the tips love them.Being a self taught car mechanic it is great to see different angles and how easy it is when shown how.Thanks Cheers Stephen 🇦🇺
Definitely staying with the drum brakes when I rebuild my truck. Thanks for showing us this
I bought a '72 F250. They had the front shoes on the back, had the left side on the right, and the leading shoes trailing! When you braked going forward, the brakes adjusted in!
With the shoes on the wrong way around long and short it would have stopped better going backwards
Great video and thanks Uncle Toni!
My two cents: Needle nosed pliers when used in reverse (applying pressure to open) hold the "Hold Down" cap perfectly.
I think where people get shy on this, is in the initial adjustments after getting them all together. Everyone I know of that does this for the 1st time goes too light, and they rely on the self-adjust too much to lock it in. Good video UTG, and yeah. Drums are simple and easier than people make them out to be.
My dad always taught me when adjusting drum brakes after a brake job(he was a master tech for several automotive brands throughout the 70's and 80's) to turn the adjuster wheel in until the wheel is completely locked, this kind of sets everything in line where it should be in there and the adjustment will remain more accurate, then use a pick or something and move the ratchet off the star wheel and back the adjustment off while turning the wheel until you get the desired drag, which is slightly more than one might think. After that they wear in quickly and the self-adjuster takes over from there and the pedal is always high and firm like it should be. Done that ever since and always had good experiences with drum brakes. No telling how many thousands of brake jobs that guy did over the years.
@@MattsRageFitGarage Same way my dad taught me, then you drive it around the block a couple times to wear the shoes in & the self adjusters take care of the rest. Too cool that you commented on that, because I was able to find your channel as well. Dang Cool Stuff you have going on man!
@@BareRoseGarage Yeah, I have tried just adjusting the shoes up until they felt good and it never works right, gotta get them tight then back em off and they work great. I think that is why a lot of people hate drum brakes, is that little known adjustment trick right there.
Thanks for letting me know the at about the self adjusters on the performance cars. I’m about to dig into the brakes on the Roach Runner.
We used Velvet touch disk pads and they have no drag until they get hot but they really work at very high speeds. The same type full metal shoes are great for high speed stopping as the Police and Ambulance have used them for years .They will outlast any drum or rotor. The same factory here in Rochester has built Ceramic brakes and clutches for major brands to relabel .
I love it when the channels I subscribe to are "interacting" with each other :)
I'm an idiot but still managed to R&R the rear drum brakes on my wife's Toyota, and the drums on my '68 Bug are crazy simple, but to be fair the drums Wes was working on yesterday seemed WAY over-complicated. As such I can understand his displeasure with drums.
I think the rust was the real problem. I grew up doing drums so for me it's no big deal, but i know a lot of people who have issues with them.