Agreed that the J class is the finest and most elegant passenger steam locomotive ever built. I'd love to visit Roanoke one day and see 611 in action (I live in England). Thanks for the video.
I got to see her up close in 2017, near my town in North Carolina, she is a mighty engine who oozes elegance Every inch of her showcases her power, from the cylinders to the echoing roar of her whistle is more than enough to leave anyone in awe
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower I have an HO model of 611 with extra water tank I believe was rebuilt after falling off the tracks and was the in best condition for preservation
The Norfolk & Western J class types are very handsome due to their streamlined body casing and the class J is one of my personal favorite eastern USA territory 4-8-4 type designs. The N&W j class had the highest tractive effort of any 4-8-4 type locomotive ever built and are ranked among being some of the best 4-8-4 designs, I am glad that engine 611 still exists and operates today as being the sole surviving member of the N&W j class fleet.
Without a doubt the Class J is the most modern, efficient passenger steam locomotive ever made, the Hudson’s were good but the N&W had the benefit of hindsight on their side to apply lessons from those in locomotive design as well, the only other one that could probably come close would be the NYC Niagras, but even with that in mind, maybe I’m a bit biased but I’d still take the J’s all day long. Awesome video man!
Thank you! The choice is closer that you would think. I simply give the J the nod because it was designed and built in house combined with N & W's very structured way of doing business. To me it makes it the best.
The J class is easily one of the most beautiful streamliners locomotives. I’d love a tier list of streamlined locomotives. Some are beautiful and some are… unique.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower But it looks so cool. for me it is easily in my top 5 best looking north american streamliners. Efficiency and cost are one side, and the j class easily has them beat, aesthetically I'd put them on the same level.
A few days ago, I've acquired an HO scale "brass" version of the finest passenger steam locomotive ever built. I hope I will get to see the real thing in person someday. 611 is a classic beauty.
The J, IMO at least, is definitely the best designed 4-8-4. It even represents the pinnacle of American steam locomotive technology. Not to mention they're beautiful as well.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower It sure is, and it sure an. In fact, there's a documented run of a J (607) on a 150 car, 12,297 ton coal train on the Kenova District on February 28, 1958, and managed to max 41 mph with such a load!
I really like your video style. No silliness or drama or random clips thrown in every 30 seconds trying to be funny. Great choice of pictures and film clips and a truly knowledgeable understanding of this locomotive. I even learned something new (designer's wife's idea on painting.) That's icing on the cake! Thanks for putting this out there!
Thank you! Here and there you will hear me change my voice kinda mocking the thinking of someone in question that might get a giggle from.. But all the while im being serious. In my mind these are very historic pieces that literally made it possible to build the world as we know it today. Not a lot of room for humor in the topic.
The info I read is that the J used McGill bearings. Many years ago I worked at McGill Bearing in Valparaiso, Indiana. I was surprised and proud to think that the J was made with something that was made a couple miles from where I'm from.
The N&W Class J’s are indeed a fantastic design. Although the ATSF 2900’s were oil burners, they share a number of geometric similarities with the N&W J’s. If a person gains a familiarity with the grades and curvature of the Class J’s operating territory, an understanding can quickly be gained about the necessity of the design’s 70 inch drivers. Class J’s needed to be able quickly accelerate between curves and station stops with N&W’s named passenger trains. Hence, the need for 70 inch drivers. There are some great sound recordings by O. Winston Link on his “Fading Giant” LP of Class J’s doing this kind of work with the Cavalier (trains 15 & 16). Thanks for yet another entertaining video.👍
I road behind her twice in my life. Once, when I was little from NE Ohio to Buffalo NY in 89' on now, CSX track back then they ran her fast like 80 mph. the latest was in 2016 from Manassas VA to Front Royal VA. It's definitely an awe-inspiring experience. Keep in mind she was pulling 21 heavy passenger cars with no diesel helpers. Granted, some of the terrain she runs on in VA is some of the roughest terrain in the country when it comes to steep grades. That's why NW built her with a huge boiler and 70" drivers. She pulled the 21 car consist like a champ. Around the Front Royal area near Ashby Gap, I've actually seen diesels pulling Freight stall out on said tracks. 611, she's a beast. It's an awesome sight to watch her.
I rode behind 611 in October 1982 on one of her inaugural trips across the Pocahontas District. It was the first time that I had ever seen a steam engine under power that large. It was an awesome and quite an unforgettable experience. It might have been even more unforgettable for my cousin. He got a cinder in his eye on one of the open air cars!😁
Anyone interested in the variations of 4-8-4 design would probably enjoy the "as-built" photographs of N&W 605-610. They were built during WW2 and classified as J1's under wartime restrictions which precluded the use of lightweight materials for streamlining and lightweight rods. The lack of streamlining reveals the true girth of the J boiler and its similarities to engines like the C&O Greenbriers, ATSF 2900's, and the NYC Niagara's. Cheers 👍
Yeah, I saw images of them without the stream line.. I didnt use them because many wouldn't think it was a J. But you are correct on the first batch of the design.
Appearance wise, I put the J on a par with the New Haven I- 5 Hudson. I would like to see a direct comparison with the New York Central Niagara, another late to the game super efficient steamer.
Hope one day someone starts a trust to rebuild one locomotive from all the NYC hudson classes, and B&O 5300 is streamlined one day. 611, wnd her sisters were amazing, they had everything. To be honest I wish that one of all no longer existing American steam, no longer existing diesel locomotive classes were built, and the surviving diesel, steam locomotive classes that still exist can have one member put in the muesum, if there's only one survivor of a class then have a replica built, and put in the museum, and them all in a massive muesum, that would be amazing.,
B&O 5300 was not one of the streamlined P-7s (class P-7d). Those were 5301-5304 for the "Cincinnatian" in 1947 (not that it matters, but my favorite streamlined steam locomotive - just for looks).
UP 844 I think edges it out slightly. It’s a great dual use locomotive and has seen over 100 mph in regular service as well. It’s the only steam locomotive ever built that was never taken out of service. Once it’s days of regular mainline service were over, it went straight to excursion service. It’s never been on static display in a museum. It’s theorized that it could have gone much faster as well. It hasn’t been gently ran in it’s old age either. It’s seen 75 mph in excursion service.
well in later uses the J's were used on freight service and did quite good just didn't last as long cause it was only a temporary service until the new geeps were delivered. But 844 or 611 I will choose 611 any day but as for 4449, well she has a good spot in my heart with her paint schemes
The fef3 Union Pacific 484 had 300 pounds per square inch of boiler pressure so does the GS4 daylight also the big boy runs on 300 PSI superheated steam pressure
Considering these fierce machines were stronger even than the S1 Niagaras and the S2 Super Niagara but deployed similar servicing techniques, by all means these're the best passenger design ever in the history of time. I even heard some of them were downgraded and pulled freight cars in the end, hence why a few had doghouses put on their tenders.
Must say, I do agree that the j is the finest locomotive ever built. But I have to disagree with you on one point. The hudsons didn't really give the j a run for its money, but the niagara could. Between those two, it's close.
@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower yeah, the nyc built them as multi role locomotives, and they excelled at fast passenger service, as they could haul more than the hudsons at faster speeds more efficiently. The nyc used the niagaras to test against diesels and it performed just as well if not better than the diesels, same as the j and other n&w locos
I don't agree that the J was the best designed steam locomotive. Your question is kinda worded weird in that I don't know if you are only discussing passenger locos or just locos in general. If you are discussing just passenger locomotives I think that you nailed it with the Milwaukee Road F7 Hiawatha. The New York Central would also point out that their Niagara produced more horsepower at higher speeds and was thus superior, and they make a really convincing argument that is readily look up-able. And a J would only reach 140 miles per hour if you strapped a Saturn V to it. that 110 was on 'the racetrack' and that is as good as its ever going to get. and that's great! Greater still for a 70 inch drivered engine. But 140 is a fantasy.
Let's not forget that the J was designed for climbing steep grades at moderate speeds, not constant high speed running like the Niagara. The J easily beats the Niagara at speeds below 50 mph, and the Niagara wins at speeds higher than that. Heck, the PRR T1 beat the J at high speeds. So to say which was better really depends where you run it and how fast.
@@09JDCTrainMan oh sure, but there is a arguement to be made for either, as opposed to something like the C&O J-3a, which as much as I like it is inferior to the J in all but adhesion.
I actually think 140 is obtainable on the J . If it was less stable, then I would wholeheartedly agree with you. The stability was so perfect, as I mentioned in the video, the loco didnt respond well to inferior track. Im assuming heavy vibration could be felt by crew and passengers. Which you wouldn't want. J was actually a dual purpose loco.. I think it was the best design all things considered. And that's highly subjective and debatable. That's just me.
Agreed that the J class is the finest and most elegant passenger steam locomotive ever built. I'd love to visit Roanoke one day and see 611 in action (I live in England). Thanks for the video.
I got to see her up close in 2017, near my town in North Carolina, she is a mighty engine who oozes elegance
Every inch of her showcases her power, from the cylinders to the echoing roar of her whistle is more than enough to leave anyone in awe
I agree!
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower I have an HO model of 611 with extra water tank
I believe was rebuilt after falling off the tracks and was the in best condition for preservation
The Norfolk & Western J class types are very handsome due to their streamlined body casing and the class J is one of my personal favorite eastern USA territory 4-8-4 type designs. The N&W j class had the highest tractive effort of any 4-8-4 type locomotive ever built and are ranked among being some of the best 4-8-4 designs, I am glad that engine 611 still exists and operates today as being the sole surviving member of the N&W j class fleet.
It's definitely one of the best ever, if not the best.
Without a doubt the Class J is the most modern, efficient passenger steam locomotive ever made, the Hudson’s were good but the N&W had the benefit of hindsight on their side to apply lessons from those in locomotive design as well, the only other one that could probably come close would be the NYC Niagras, but even with that in mind, maybe I’m a bit biased but I’d still take the J’s all day long. Awesome video man!
Thank you! The choice is closer that you would think. I simply give the J the nod because it was designed and built in house combined with N & W's very structured way of doing business. To me it makes it the best.
The J class is easily one of the most beautiful streamliners locomotives.
I’d love a tier list of streamlined locomotives. Some are beautiful and some are… unique.
I personally didnt like the T1 appearance. But that's just me.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower But it looks so cool. for me it is easily in my top 5 best looking north american streamliners. Efficiency and cost are one side, and the j class easily has them beat, aesthetically I'd put them on the same level.
A few days ago, I've acquired an HO scale "brass" version of the finest passenger steam locomotive ever built. I hope I will get to see the real thing in person someday. 611 is a classic beauty.
Great fun right there!
The J, IMO at least, is definitely the best designed 4-8-4. It even represents the pinnacle of American steam locomotive technology. Not to mention they're beautiful as well.
The kewl thing about it was that it was a dual purpose loco. It really could do a solid job hauling freight.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower It sure is, and it sure an. In fact, there's a documented run of a J (607) on a 150 car, 12,297 ton coal train on the Kenova District on February 28, 1958, and managed to max 41 mph with such a load!
I really like your video style. No silliness or drama or random clips thrown in every 30 seconds trying to be funny.
Great choice of pictures and film clips and a truly knowledgeable understanding of this locomotive.
I even learned something new (designer's wife's idea on painting.)
That's icing on the cake!
Thanks for putting this out there!
Thank you! Here and there you will hear me change my voice kinda mocking the thinking of someone in question that might get a giggle from.. But all the while im being serious. In my mind these are very historic pieces that literally made it possible to build the world as we know it today. Not a lot of room for humor in the topic.
The J was second to none in the 4-8-4 class design by far. In looks, the SP Daylight wins only by a nose.
Looks are subjective to be sure!
The info I read is that the J used McGill bearings. Many years ago I worked at McGill Bearing in Valparaiso, Indiana. I was surprised and proud to think that the J was made with something that was made a couple miles from where I'm from.
That's pretty cool!
Thank you for this and I'm so glad to see her and i rode her too I'm glad she is still going today 🚂
You're welcome!
The N&W Class J’s are indeed a fantastic design. Although the ATSF 2900’s were oil burners, they share a number of geometric similarities with the N&W J’s. If a person gains a familiarity with the grades and curvature of the Class J’s operating territory, an understanding can quickly be gained about the necessity of the design’s 70 inch drivers. Class J’s needed to be able quickly accelerate between curves and station stops with N&W’s named passenger trains. Hence, the need for 70 inch drivers. There are some great sound recordings by O. Winston Link on his “Fading Giant” LP of Class J’s doing this kind of work with the Cavalier (trains 15 & 16). Thanks for yet another entertaining video.👍
I like it! Good info!
I road behind her twice in my life. Once, when I was little from NE Ohio to Buffalo NY in 89' on now, CSX track back then they ran her fast like 80 mph. the latest was in 2016 from Manassas VA to Front Royal VA. It's definitely an awe-inspiring experience. Keep in mind she was pulling 21 heavy passenger cars with no diesel helpers. Granted, some of the terrain she runs on in VA is some of the roughest terrain in the country when it comes to steep grades. That's why NW built her with a huge boiler and 70" drivers. She pulled the 21 car consist like a champ. Around the Front Royal area near Ashby Gap, I've actually seen diesels pulling Freight stall out on said tracks. 611, she's a beast. It's an awesome sight to watch her.
Great story! Thank you for sharing!
I rode behind 611 in October 1982 on one of her inaugural trips across the Pocahontas District. It was the first time that I had ever seen a steam engine under power that large. It was an awesome and quite an unforgettable experience. It might have been even more unforgettable for my cousin. He got a cinder in his eye on one of the open air cars!😁
I've checked some 4-8-4 specs from around the world and have concluded that the N&W's J class is the strongest when it comes to tractive effort
Drove N&W 611 during its be the engineer / fireman days in the strasburg area and it was a lot of fun man. Glad I drove a N&W legend.
Anyone interested in the variations of 4-8-4 design would probably enjoy the "as-built" photographs of N&W 605-610. They were built during WW2 and classified as J1's under wartime restrictions which precluded the use of lightweight materials for streamlining and lightweight rods. The lack of streamlining reveals the true girth of the J boiler and its similarities to engines like the C&O Greenbriers, ATSF 2900's, and the NYC Niagara's. Cheers 👍
Yeah, I saw images of them without the stream line.. I didnt use them because many wouldn't think it was a J. But you are correct on the first batch of the design.
I wouldn't say it's the best design overall but definitely one of if not the best American design
Fair enough!
Appearance wise, I put the J on a par with the New Haven I- 5 Hudson. I would like to see a direct comparison with the New York Central Niagara, another late to the game super efficient steamer.
Noted!
Hope one day someone starts a trust to rebuild one locomotive from all the NYC hudson classes, and B&O 5300 is streamlined one day. 611, wnd her sisters were amazing, they had everything. To be honest I wish that one of all no longer existing American steam, no longer existing diesel locomotive classes were built, and the surviving diesel, steam locomotive classes that still exist can have one member put in the muesum, if there's only one survivor of a class then have a replica built, and put in the museum, and them all in a massive muesum, that would be amazing.,
Hear, Hear!
B&O 5300 was not one of the streamlined P-7s (class P-7d). Those were 5301-5304 for the "Cincinnatian" in 1947 (not that it matters, but my favorite streamlined steam locomotive - just for looks).
UP 844 I think edges it out slightly. It’s a great dual use locomotive and has seen over 100 mph in regular service as well. It’s the only steam locomotive ever built that was never taken out of service. Once it’s days of regular mainline service were over, it went straight to excursion service. It’s never been on static display in a museum. It’s theorized that it could have gone much faster as well. It hasn’t been gently ran in it’s old age either. It’s seen 75 mph in excursion service.
That's fair!
well in later uses the J's were used on freight service and did quite good just didn't last as long cause it was only a temporary service until the new geeps were delivered. But 844 or 611 I will choose 611 any day but as for 4449, well she has a good spot in my heart with her paint schemes
@@SteamKing2160 No wrong answer here, all were great locomotives.
Fun fact: here in roanoke, the 611 has a steakhouse named after her
For Real?
Just goes to show that providing the engine has a well designed front end, small driving wheels are not an obstruction to fast running.
N & W were simply the best overall in their designs along with workmanship. Quality.
The fef3 Union Pacific 484 had 300 pounds per square inch of boiler pressure so does the GS4 daylight also the big boy runs on 300 PSI superheated steam pressure
None higher though, correct? That was my emphasis
Considering these fierce machines were stronger even than the S1 Niagaras and the S2 Super Niagara but deployed similar servicing techniques, by all means these're the best passenger design ever in the history of time. I even heard some of them were downgraded and pulled freight cars in the end, hence why a few had doghouses put on their tenders.
Very true.. several were on freights.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower They were pretty suited to it. Yeah railfans might've said it wasn't a pretty sight but it was the end of steam.
I believe it was by far the best 4-8-4 ever built. As far as the best ever all around steam… not sure on that one.
It's debatable and we will get many different answers for sure.
Of ANY locomotive, the "J" is king.
Debatable for sure, but I tend to agree!
I like the J's. Their pretty, and efficient and all that. However I think the Niagara could step toe to toe with them. I mean no offense by this.
No problem! It was to spur conversation.
Very close but the Js have slightly more HP then the UP 484.
@@electron2601 I was referring to the NYC Niagara.
Must say, I do agree that the j is the finest locomotive ever built. But I have to disagree with you on one point. The hudsons didn't really give the j a run for its money, but the niagara could. Between those two, it's close.
Funny you mentioned that.. Niagra is on my board, and I am seeing the same thing.
@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower yeah, the nyc built them as multi role locomotives, and they excelled at fast passenger service, as they could haul more than the hudsons at faster speeds more efficiently. The nyc used the niagaras to test against diesels and it performed just as well if not better than the diesels, same as the j and other n&w locos
Automatic stoker? I can't see how a fireman could keep up with the coal demand by hand.
J had everything
To be honest not sure there were many great locomotives the j's, the mohawks, dmir 2-8-8-4s, up fef's etc
Just to spur discussion. There is no right or wrong answer, really.
I don't agree that the J was the best designed steam locomotive. Your question is kinda worded weird in that I don't know if you are only discussing passenger locos or just locos in general. If you are discussing just passenger locomotives I think that you nailed it with the Milwaukee Road F7 Hiawatha. The New York Central would also point out that their Niagara produced more horsepower at higher speeds and was thus superior, and they make a really convincing argument that is readily look up-able.
And a J would only reach 140 miles per hour if you strapped a Saturn V to it. that 110 was on 'the racetrack' and that is as good as its ever going to get. and that's great! Greater still for a 70 inch drivered engine. But 140 is a fantasy.
Let's not forget that the J was designed for climbing steep grades at moderate speeds, not constant high speed running like the Niagara. The J easily beats the Niagara at speeds below 50 mph, and the Niagara wins at speeds higher than that. Heck, the PRR T1 beat the J at high speeds. So to say which was better really depends where you run it and how fast.
@@09JDCTrainMan oh sure, but there is a arguement to be made for either, as opposed to something like the C&O J-3a, which as much as I like it is inferior to the J in all but adhesion.
I actually think 140 is obtainable on the J . If it was less stable, then I would wholeheartedly agree with you. The stability was so perfect, as I mentioned in the video, the loco didnt respond well to inferior track. Im assuming heavy vibration could be felt by crew and passengers. Which you wouldn't want. J was actually a dual purpose loco.. I think it was the best design all things considered. And that's highly subjective and debatable. That's just me.