Mr Constantino: "You need to take all of Hebrews, the whole message the author intends" Also Mr Constantino: "Are you reading Romans 11 back into Romans 9???"
@@Rawkabilly57 James White is the expert in this, "We believe in Tota Scriptura not just Sola Scriptura", then bashes Leighton Flowers for going outside of Romans 9 or John 6 to give context.
I’ve always waffled back and forth on this issue and then it occurred to me that conditional security doesn’t mean that we are saved,lost,saved,lost over and over again based on our behavior minute to minute but a final apostasy and inpenitence.
The Calvinist begins by warning against proof texting and then immediately begins to proof text. Sorry if that sounds snarky but seriously, he literally did that very thing. God gives grace to the humble. Perhaps this young man will humble himself and dare to lay his doctrine on the alter and test it in the presence of God himself.
Mr Constantino pokes fun at the Conditional Security stance by citing passages about assurance and then adding on "...if they keep on believing" which the specific passage doesn't state. But Calvinism does this all the time, assuming "...only if you are Elect" added to the end of every passage stating that everyone can repent and believe the Gospel.
Q&A, Hebrews 12 'faith' is a noun not a verb. The passage is referring to the ‘set of beliefs’ (noun) we hold, not to our ‘act of believing’ (verb). What ‘faith’ do you adhere to? Christianity, the religion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Who founded and perfects this noun-faith? Why, Jesus of course. So is this passage talking about God Unconditionally, Irresistably making verb-faith appear inside our Totally Unable hearts? No.
@methodministries this was a spectacular debate. Honestly brother, I have only recently been introduced to the doctrine of apostasy through Welch College. So, I am familiar with a lot of the passages Daniel brought up, but not familiar with your responses and observations in those passages. I have recently came to favor the view that the book of Hebrews is addressing believers. There’s another interpretation I came across that suggest discipline/judgment on the believer. I have not concluded what I understand what the Scriptures teach because I have not done the exegesis myself. This was a good debate. Both made great points. And because I am wrestling with this I found myself considering every point you and Daniel made. Question, I didn’t hear 2 Peter 2:20-21, how come you decided not push that as evidence for apostasy?
If Conditional Security is untrue, then the alternative is Evanescent Grace. Perhaps the first sounds slightly worrying, but the latter is downright horrifying and even the most ardent believer has no assurance that their faith is not just a trick of God to damn them more severely.
@@methodministries Indeed, and I find that the other 4% who do know it try to ignore it (1% just buy into it and even quote passages to try and prove it).
WHO WILL ALL MEN (THAT'S EVERYONE!) TO BE SAVED AND COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE (REALIZATION) OF THE TRUTH! 1 TIMOTHY 2:4 IT DOES NOT SAY - WHO WILL HAVE SOME MEN TO BE SAVED..."PRAISE GOD FOR THIS!:) GOD'S UNCONDITIONAL LOVE (AGAPE LOVE) = THE RECONCILIATION OF ALL OF HIS OFFSPRING (EVERYONE!) BACK TO HIM (GOD) COLOSSIANS 1:19 - 20 IF THIS WERE NOT TRUE, HOW COULD GOD FULLY BE - ALL IN ALL?!!!! 1 CORINTHIANS 15:28 JESUS CHRIST IS - THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD (COSMOS/EVERYONE WHO EVER LIVED OR WILL LIVE)!!! 1 JOHN 4:14 WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH WHCIH ISN'T OURS, IT'S CHRIST'S GIFT TO ALL. GOD HAS ALREADY ACHIEVED IT FOR US! EPHESIANS 2:8 - 10 ALL LIVING CREATURES ON EARTH WILL BE HEALED OF ALL INIQUITIES AND BROUGHT BACK TO GOD. EPHESIANS 1:10 JESUS WILL DRAW (DRAG) ALL MEN (EVERYONE!) TO HIMSELF! JOHN 12:32
I'd have to say the tall dude without the bow tie was mentioning hebrews Talking about the ragest one shrinking back and God having no pleasure and him sir I would have to say and I'm not a scholar in any way. I just read the text in context if you read it and you read from the 1st chapter all the way down to where you're talking about which is the. End of chapter one you will notice. He is giving a contrast between the Hebrews that went into the desert with Moses and that the sacrifices had to be made every year and they were righteous made. By those sacrifices but they were not savable and within that time period they would shrink back until the. The next sacrifice and they would sin and then it goes in to the other portion where God said that he gave Jesus a body a final sacrifice and a new. Covenant and in that covenant there is assurance and those who believe in christ will never shrink back and they will have assurance of salvation and be justified. I could go into cutting and pasting text but it would be a waste because it is clear sir that you do not hold the same standard as your opponent. In consystency and text. I appreciate you giving your view brother but you are twisting scripture and you're pulling verses out that don't make sense to your argument if you would. Like to I'd be more than happy to pull out verses and explain each verse to you in Hebrews and again I'm not a scholar in any way. I just read the text it's not that difficult. I don't need to pull outverses and throw them out of contacts and force that text to your argument to fit your argument. I think you're doing an injustice to God's word. I pray brother that god opens your eyes in your heart to his word and gives you discernment and the energy to carefully read and discern his word. God bless you and thank you very much for a good debate
At the 39 minute mark, the point that, if someone walks away then Jesus "fails to do the will of the Father." This is nothing but poor exegesis, since the same reasoning must be applied to the passage which states that ... "God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." Given that not all will be saved, God Himself is a failure by such reasoning.
Yes. Its a straw-man argument of Calvinism and a very weak one at best. John 6:40 is clear: God’s will for salvation is for believers and it them Jesus will save.
Regarding the vine and bearing fruit on the branches, This is for the Armenian side. If you would please? Look. At chapter? 4. Which? Is immediately after. Which? Explains what he just. Said that means why don't you read things in context chapter 4? To chapter eight have a read so john 15:4-8. Christ explains very clearly who is the branch that cannot bear fruity said the branch alone cannot bear fruit because it's God who has to regenerate and West given faith who has to sustain him and it's only those people who abide in Christ and will be saved obviously so those who fall away are the. Branches the apostate christians the false conversions who Have a false belief for but a moment and then fall away because by themselves without being given to Christ and having the blessings and the power of God to. Give you faith so that you may bear fruit and abide in him, Those false conversions, Or those people who believe temporarily like those who walk away from Christ will be thrown into the fire because they cannot bear fruit by themselves because it is not. A synergistic relationship in this regard it is God who gives faith it is God who regenerates it is God who sustains all things and those people. Those branches who are abiding in god are the chosen or the elect and they will Be sustained until gotta raises us up. God-bless you brother but you have a big problem of reading text. You should show more respect to the word of God rather than trying to fit a narrative that fits your worldview. It is wrong brother. Again I'm not a scholar and I don't pretend to be. I'm just reading the text in context and god does not say something without explaining it in one side or the other to a large extent, It is being explained just read a little bit further you can do it.
Great debate. Thank you for a great showing for the non Calvinism side.
OOF that John 15 cross examination on 'abide in Me' - gotta clip this for the collection on my own channel! 🤣
Mr Constantino: "You need to take all of Hebrews, the whole message the author intends"
Also Mr Constantino: "Are you reading Romans 11 back into Romans 9???"
I thought the exact same thing.
It's wrong for thee, but not for me. 😂
@@Rawkabilly57 James White is the expert in this, "We believe in Tota Scriptura not just Sola Scriptura", then bashes Leighton Flowers for going outside of Romans 9 or John 6 to give context.
I’ve always waffled back and forth on this issue and then it occurred to me that conditional security doesn’t mean that we are saved,lost,saved,lost over and over again based on our behavior minute to minute but a final apostasy and inpenitence.
Wow! This is a powerful debate! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
The Calvinist begins by warning against proof texting and then immediately begins to proof text. Sorry if that sounds snarky but seriously, he literally did that very thing. God gives grace to the humble. Perhaps this young man will humble himself and dare to lay his doctrine on the alter and test it in the presence of God himself.
Mr Constantino pokes fun at the Conditional Security stance by citing passages about assurance and then adding on "...if they keep on believing" which the specific passage doesn't state. But Calvinism does this all the time, assuming "...only if you are Elect" added to the end of every passage stating that everyone can repent and believe the Gospel.
Q&A, Hebrews 12 'faith' is a noun not a verb. The passage is referring to the ‘set of beliefs’ (noun) we hold, not to our ‘act of believing’ (verb).
What ‘faith’ do you adhere to? Christianity, the religion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Who founded and perfects this noun-faith? Why, Jesus of course.
So is this passage talking about God Unconditionally, Irresistably making verb-faith appear inside our Totally Unable hearts? No.
@methodministries this was a spectacular debate. Honestly brother, I have only recently been introduced to the doctrine of apostasy through Welch College. So, I am familiar with a lot of the passages Daniel brought up, but not familiar with your responses and observations in those passages. I have recently came to favor the view that the book of Hebrews is addressing believers. There’s another interpretation I came across that suggest discipline/judgment on the believer.
I have not concluded what I understand what the Scriptures teach because I have not done the exegesis myself.
This was a good debate. Both made great points. And because I am wrestling with this I found myself considering every point you and Daniel made. Question, I didn’t hear 2 Peter 2:20-21, how come you decided not push that as evidence for apostasy?
Thank you, I appreciate it! I would have loved to go into more discussions with that and other verses but didn’t have enough time.
47:00 mark ... "To as many as believe, He gave the right ..."
If Conditional Security is untrue, then the alternative is Evanescent Grace. Perhaps the first sounds slightly worrying, but the latter is downright horrifying and even the most ardent believer has no assurance that their faith is not just a trick of God to damn them more severely.
95% of Calvinist have no clue of that doctrine.
@@methodministries Indeed, and I find that the other 4% who do know it try to ignore it (1% just buy into it and even quote passages to try and prove it).
Eph 2:8-9, based on the gender of the words it is 'salvation by faith through grace' which is the gift of God. 'Faith' just by itself is not the gift.
Anyone know any good articles about conditial security?
www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0892656360/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=
This book and author is fantastic. One of the best I read.
WHO WILL ALL MEN (THAT'S EVERYONE!) TO BE SAVED AND COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE (REALIZATION) OF THE TRUTH! 1 TIMOTHY 2:4
IT DOES NOT SAY - WHO WILL HAVE SOME MEN TO BE SAVED..."PRAISE GOD FOR THIS!:)
GOD'S UNCONDITIONAL LOVE (AGAPE LOVE) = THE RECONCILIATION OF ALL OF HIS OFFSPRING (EVERYONE!) BACK TO HIM (GOD) COLOSSIANS 1:19 - 20
IF THIS WERE NOT TRUE, HOW COULD GOD FULLY BE - ALL IN ALL?!!!! 1 CORINTHIANS 15:28
JESUS CHRIST IS - THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD (COSMOS/EVERYONE WHO EVER LIVED OR WILL LIVE)!!! 1 JOHN 4:14
WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH WHCIH ISN'T OURS, IT'S CHRIST'S GIFT TO ALL. GOD HAS ALREADY ACHIEVED IT FOR US! EPHESIANS 2:8 - 10
ALL LIVING CREATURES ON EARTH WILL BE HEALED OF ALL INIQUITIES AND BROUGHT BACK TO GOD. EPHESIANS 1:10
JESUS WILL DRAW (DRAG) ALL MEN (EVERYONE!) TO HIMSELF! JOHN 12:32
Hi Jason. I agree that God wants all to be saved, but only those who do believe will be saved (John 3:36).
I'd have to say the tall dude without the bow tie was mentioning hebrews Talking about the ragest one shrinking back and God having no pleasure and him sir I would have to say and I'm not a scholar in any way. I just read the text in context if you read it and you read from the 1st chapter all the way down to where you're talking about which is the. End of chapter one you will notice. He is giving a contrast between the Hebrews that went into the desert with Moses and that the sacrifices had to be made every year and they were righteous made. By those sacrifices but they were not savable and within that time period they would shrink back until the. The next sacrifice and they would sin and then it goes in to the other portion where God said that he gave Jesus a body a final sacrifice and a new. Covenant and in that covenant there is assurance and those who believe in christ will never shrink back and they will have assurance of salvation and be justified. I could go into cutting and pasting text but it would be a waste because it is clear sir that you do not hold the same standard as your opponent. In consystency and text. I appreciate you giving your view brother but you are twisting scripture and you're pulling verses out that don't make sense to your argument if you would. Like to I'd be more than happy to pull out verses and explain each verse to you in Hebrews and again I'm not a scholar in any way. I just read the text it's not that difficult. I don't need to pull outverses and throw them out of contacts and force that text to your argument to fit your argument. I think you're doing an injustice to God's word. I pray brother that god opens your eyes in your heart to his word and gives you discernment and the energy to carefully read and discern his word. God bless you and thank you very much for a good debate
At the 39 minute mark, the point that, if someone walks away then Jesus "fails to do the will of the Father." This is nothing but poor exegesis, since the same reasoning must be applied to the passage which states that ... "God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." Given that not all will be saved, God Himself is a failure by such reasoning.
Yes. Its a straw-man argument of Calvinism and a very weak one at best. John 6:40 is clear: God’s will for salvation is for believers and it them Jesus will save.
Regarding the vine and bearing fruit on the branches, This is for the Armenian side. If you would please? Look. At chapter? 4. Which? Is immediately after. Which? Explains what he just. Said that means why don't you read things in context chapter 4? To chapter eight have a read so john 15:4-8. Christ explains very clearly who is the branch that cannot bear fruity said the branch alone cannot bear fruit because it's God who has to regenerate and West given faith who has to sustain him and it's only those people who abide in Christ and will be saved obviously so those who fall away are the. Branches the apostate christians the false conversions who Have a false belief for but a moment and then fall away because by themselves without being given to Christ and having the blessings and the power of God to. Give you faith so that you may bear fruit and abide in him, Those false conversions, Or those people who believe temporarily like those who walk away from Christ will be thrown into the fire because they cannot bear fruit by themselves because it is not. A synergistic relationship in this regard it is God who gives faith it is God who regenerates it is God who sustains all things and those people. Those branches who are abiding in god are the chosen or the elect and they will Be sustained until gotta raises us up. God-bless you brother but you have a big problem of reading text. You should show more respect to the word of God rather than trying to fit a narrative that fits your worldview. It is wrong brother. Again I'm not a scholar and I don't pretend to be. I'm just reading the text in context and god does not say something without explaining it in one side or the other to a large extent, It is being explained just read a little bit further you can do it.
Great debate. Thank you for a great showing for the non Calvinism side.
Thank you for the encouragement!