Hi Chase! I know these episodes take a lot of time and effort, and are more difficult to make, but I sure enjoy them! I especially enjoy the episodes that cover some of the more obscure ship classes, such as the Dunkerque class above, since they have not been as well covered by the standard military history documentary sources. Which, of course, makes them harder for you to research as well, I imagine! Anyway, kudos and a big "thank you" for making this episode, which I thoroughly enjoyed! I will be looking forward to the next installment of this series! :)
+Andrew Schembri "usually" being the word here. First we need to see how Bismarck will be when WG releases german BB line in comparison to Tirpitz. Also you can balance it in different ways. Strasbough would get better armour, but would be slower, turn slower etc.
FINALLY a video of the French Navy (Marine Nationale) I waited so long for this to happen xD thank you IChase you're awesome ! And could you do a video on the Richelieu ? (And maybe Alsace) :)
No not at all. I'm saying that the battle between the French and British that happened was a completely pointless tragedy that had the same end result as if the British hadn't intervened. If they hadn't panicked, then none of those people would've had to die fighting against their ally.
+Jackson Bowns War isn't about hindsight though its about assessing risks and taking mitigating action. The action resulted in no occupied French naval forces active in the Mediterranean and removed the bulk of naval force from colonial Africa. Remember the French army in North Africa did fight for the Axis against the British and Americans during operation Torch in 1942.
Wow, I was not aware of that. I suppose in that sense it worked out, but still, I got the impression the French admiralty had planned to scuttle the ships anyway if Germany tried to take them. But you're right, hindsight is 20/20 and we don't have the luxury of examining a situation fully until after it happens.
I'm not going to lie, this video seriously makes me want French ships in WoWS now. I've already been chomping at the bit for Royal Navy vessels, but the Dunkerque-class is quite nice looking as well...
Your research is spot on and very well presented in concise entertainment. However, you didn't discover the final line Darlan sent to Churchill: "I fart in your general direction!"
Great, episode loved all the detailed history and diplomacy surrounding her demise, I don't see why the French admiralty didn't just defect to the British, but I suppose they were old fashioned Ned Stark Officer types.
Mentioned this on Wpedia: The initial diagram at 0:28 is wrong. The density of fire diagram is wrong. Secondary density is 10 not 8 to the sides. The front secondary density is 2 on either side. The total secondary battery is 16, not 12 guns.
there was another reason the british did what they did against the French fleet. it was to show both the germans and more importantly the americans, that Britain would do whatever they needed to carry on fighting, when at the time most americans thought the british would surrender within weeks, so sending aid and arms would be wasted. it wasn't our finest hour but it certainly sent out the right message that we would fight to the end no matter what.
+DazBull26 Agreed...sadly it was politically necessary to show the U.S. that Britain was in the war for the long haul. It changed a lot of American minds.
+Mikhailia Gacesa Stabbing an allied float at the anchor was not only a crime,but also a dishonorating failure;there were four dangerous modern french battleships:Richelieu and Jean-Bart (who were not there),Strasbourg ( who was untouched,and even painted an officer of the Hood in yellow with the coloured spray of water of her shells) and Dunkerque ( who was damaged but reparable).But more than eight hundred sailors died on the old battleship Bretagne,and around three hundred others on more little ships.Englishes behaved here as Stalin,who did not execute people because they betrayed him,but because they maybe will have the occasion to betray him one day. French admiralty declared:"There is a spot on a flag,and it is not ours..." This very few honorable action had for result to stop the majority of french population to fight in the Résistance:why fighting for the englishes who behaved like false friends and traitrors?Let's better wait and see... a political failure also. Later,in Dakar,Richelieu and other french warships repelled with severe damages an english fleet which came to ask them to join de Gaulle's forces,or be destroyed But that time,there was not the surprise effect:the defense was ready,and efficient.Without Mers-el -Kebir,it could have been different...
I've read extensively about this tragic incident, you did a great job representing it in this video iChase. It's always sad when nations feel forced to kill their allies, especially when it later becomes clear that the entire incident was caused by a lack of communication. It does show the level of desperation that the British felt at the time in containing the Nazi menace sweeping Europe at the time.For my part, the French & Italian Navies are the ships I most want to see after the Royal Navy is added. In all honesty I could have done without seeing the Russian Navy until much, much later in the design schedule of the game, but I know that they feel that a lot of their customer base is in their homeland, thus influencing the illogical high priority of the Russian Navy in WoWS.I just hope that they can somehow give a good broad representation of the extensive and varied designs that the RN had in the time period. I feel that a single line of BBs, cruisers & DDs (especially for the WW I vintage ships) will be pretty limiting. They really (IMO) need to split some of those lines into BB/BC & Heavy (armoured) vs light (scout) cruisers, *especially* for the British.
After watching this video I decide to watch the your video on the Hipper class heavy cruiser. I'm in the US right now and i got a message saying this video contains content from Eagle Rock and its not available in your country, Do you know what is going on?
can you do anything on the austria hungary battleships? or maybe some of the battleships that were sold to south american countries? well to be honest, i really dont care which country its from but i love these videos. so much history. i wish all these boats would be in game.
Best decision Churchill ever made. He had to make more hard decisions during wartime than all of the politicians after him until this day. The fact that the French fleet was scuttled anyway, was sheer luck. Winston Churchill, great man, great politician, great military officer.
@@ffcn8198 explain how it was a war crime. I will agree it was a grim deed, but it was one that had to be done. If this counts as a crime, then the whole of war does.
The classic battlecruiser/battleship distinction in English is generally based WW1 era British terminology (battlecruiser being battleship guns on a faster ship with cruiser thickness of armour). Other nations didn't really follow the intentional British design distinction in any religious manner (or don't even really have proper linguistic equivalents), either back during Admiral Fisher's period of advocating for battlecruisers or during the interwar years. You get all sorts of quirky not quite a battleship but not quite a cruiser designs that straddle a middle point so in English they tend to get called battlecruisers because that's the word English has got (or sometimes they're pocket battleships when they're smaller guns on a battleship armour layout - stuff like the Graf Spee's and the Sharnhorsts, with smaller calibers than early dreadnaughts but far more modern). Leading into WW2, these end up evolving into fast battleships and supercruisers (think heavier cruisers with guns halfway to early dreadnaught calibers). In many ways, the Dunkerque class fits the classic battlecruiser model but she's arguably really one of those odd transitional interwar designs that lead into the fast battleships (which the Richelieu class were). Dunkerque was in most ways a pocket-sized trial run of the Richelieu's layout.
Hello Chase, for if the next episode is on the HNLMS De Ruyter you may find this interesting: at 17:30 and 20:30 (at 21:20 you can clearly see the 1x2 and 1x1 guns at the front) of this video ruclips.net/video/CT-B8go3PsE/видео.html she comes back at some other points in that video
From 30:20 you can see her a lot in the background and on 32:30 you can see her firing her guns together whith HNLMS Java with some Admiralen class destroyers near her
The French navy couldn't sail cause of the repairs on the damage the Brits did. Funny how a small miscommunication killed all those ships and crew then led to the scuttling of 70+ ships. Even good people does stupid things when scared, these must be one of the Brit's dumbest moments.
+L Zh The terminology of the class is at best iffy. As noted the French called them battleships (or rather ships of the line) in a different way from regular battleships (cuirassés). Thus the class waver from battleship to battlecruiser back to 'small battleship' depending on who is presenting them.
German retributions across occupied France would have been horrendous. It was also part of the deal with the Germans that the French *not* surrender the fleet to either the British or the Germans, but rather to keep it "neutral". In the end, far better to have your ships interned than to have thousands or hundreds of thousands of your citizens killed.
+hopatease1 USA, Liberia and Burma...what does those 3 nations have on commun?....they are the 3 only country in the world still strugling with mesure units more than 200 years after a perfect, scientific and universal way of mesuring had been discovered and shared.....
+Adams Khalfi The UK still largely uses it, some people I've met from Canada were taught it. Same with Mexico and several of the Central American countries. The US tried to convert to it, but due to overwhelming conversion costs the project was abandoned. Hundreds of schools are trying to teach the students metric in STEN classes as well.
Good ol' fashioned politics gone wrong. Maybe its just my experience in the US military but I can't understand surrender while still possessing the capacity to fight.
+Brofisticus It seems many captains and senior officers of this era would rather surrender to a fight they could not win than have their entire crew killed. I think the idea of knowing that a 1000 young men could die if you make the call to fight such a hopeless battle is understandably a rather daunting one. It's totally fair deciding you will go down swinging yourself but I imagine it's rather different making the decision for so many men :L
+Tom Meakin They had the option to retreat to the UK and continue the fight along with the Royal Navy. The senior officers could have declared independence from their country and declared their fleet a sovereign state to prevent any violation of the armistice. Instead of being a badass pirate navy, they simply took themselves out of the war and caused this colossal waste of personnel and equipment. If they asked for volunteers, how many do you think would stay aboard?
@@Brofisticus Retreating to the UK would have likely resulted in Nazi atrocities back home in retaliation. The French fleet was stuck between a rock and a hard place, trying to stay neutral. Gensoul was an arrogant ass but honestly, the Brits stabbed an old ally in the back out of sheer paranoia at MeK. Diplomacy with a heavily armed and prickly neutral (and former ally) while threatening to blow him out of the water is not going to encourage trust that anything you say is honest or genuine. The captain sent to negotiate should have realized he was dealing with a very distrustful counterpart and escalated the negotiation to his COs. The Brits were the ones who showed up threatening violence. It was on their head to avoid it if they genuinely wanted a diplomatic solution. They screwed it up, big time. Yes, the arrogant and prickly French admiral was the wrong guy for this negotiation but he didn't create the situation. The British admiralty did.
No, it seems well balanced. It can't shoot directly behind, and it's Citadel is weakly armored. It's guns are only 13" and the turrets could be weakly armored depending upon what's shooting her. And her secondaries and AAA are fairly poor, so she relies heavily upon the unique positioning of her main gun turrets and her speed and maneuverability.
Positioning the ship well will be the key to success as well as target selection. Armor is OK providing you don't show your broadside but can't handle shells from 15" and higher caliber whatever angle you're at. And anti torp protection is fairly poor compared to the system used IRL which is my biggest concern and complaint about the ship's stats as of now. AA is poor but it is as it was... never had the occasion to upgrade it. At least, it means that regular Strasbourg will have more AA? Wait until we see a refit Richelieu with North Carolina like AA !
Sadly, there were no guarantee that Nazis wouldn't make French people pay for this by deporting people to concentration camps or forced works or whatever thing they could have come up with... So French Admiralty didn't want to take any risk to protect the Nation it was vital to stand still. However, sailing to the Western Atlantic colonies could have done the trick and allowed the ships to be redispatched quickly in 1943 to reconquer Western Europe. Imagines, Richelieu and Dunkerque could have helped allies on D Day ! But History is not about What ifs?...
2x4 is a stupid design. Usable for raiders, but if you meet real battleships... you must run away to survive and then you have no guns available at all. So an extremely limited use for such heavy warships.
If you think about it, she is a battlecruiser, so she cannot really perform well against a big BB like Bismarck, but against a cruiser, she would be deadly, especially in poursuit.
Would have loved to know the reason the french officer neglected to relay the entire message. 1200 dead sailors on his head. I would have sailed the fleet to Britain to fight the nazi's. Maybe the french were confused at the prospect of sailing forward to england as they are more used to using reverse. hahahaha or maybe all those options of surrender got them so wet they passed out missing the deadline. hahahhaa
Because of the Japanese aggression in China and other areas they moved the fleet because they wanted to have the fleet closer to the Japanese and to intimidate the Japanese into stopping. But didn't work
More like stubborness to me. Admiral Gensoul was not the best man for the job, obviously. Capt Collinet of the Strasbourg would have made a far better Squadron CO, it was thanks to hi skill and calm that the Strasbourg escaped unscathed, except for some measonery blocks from the uncompleted jety (the MeK base was still under construction) thrown off by Hood's 15" shells on her first salvo that landed and blocked engine room air ventilation shafts and thus suffocating one of the boilers room crew (and killing 5 of them who sacrificed themselves to make the ship run at top speed no matter what and no one on the crew noticed until the ship and her escorting DDs were far, safe from British hands in the evening). They were lucky though, the anti mine detonation magnetic cords polarity were not set right and could have detonated Brit mines in the pass !
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi Chase! I know these episodes take a lot of time and effort, and are more difficult to make, but I sure enjoy them! I especially enjoy the episodes that cover some of the more obscure ship classes, such as the Dunkerque class above, since they have not been as well covered by the standard military history documentary sources. Which, of course, makes them harder for you to research as well, I imagine! Anyway, kudos and a big "thank you" for making this episode, which I thoroughly enjoyed! I will be looking forward to the next installment of this series! :)
Probably my favourite series on RUclips!! You Rock ICG!!
totally agree, keep it up chase! :D
Report England for teamkilling plz.
@Epinephrine (France has changed team)
So, the Dunkerque would be the stock hull, and the Strasbourg would be the hull upgrade.
+Fighterpilot555 sounds like it.
+Fighterpilot555 Or Strasbourg would be premium ;_;
Possible, but if that happens it would be the other way around, since the "inferior" ship is usauly the premium.
+Andrew Schembri "usually" being the word here. First we need to see how Bismarck will be when WG releases german BB line in comparison to Tirpitz.
Also you can balance it in different ways. Strasbough would get better armour, but would be slower, turn slower etc.
+NegaBot It seems WoWS balances premiums differently than her sister games. As you touched on the Tirpitz was a superior ship to the Bismarck.
More than anything this video is an excellent description of the complex Mers-El Kabir negotiations and how & why they broke down.
FINALLY a video of the French Navy (Marine Nationale)
I waited so long for this to happen xD
thank you IChase you're awesome !
And could you do a video on the Richelieu ? (And maybe Alsace) :)
Wow. So the whole ordeal was just a waste of French money, ships, and sailors, as well as British ammunition. What a sad story.
french hater 😂?
No not at all. I'm saying that the battle between the French and British that happened was a completely pointless tragedy that had the same end result as if the British hadn't intervened. If they hadn't panicked, then none of those people would've had to die fighting against their ally.
+Jackson Bowns Indeed it was a tactical and political blunder.
+Jackson Bowns War isn't about hindsight though its about assessing risks and taking mitigating action. The action resulted in no occupied French naval forces active in the Mediterranean and removed the bulk of naval force from colonial Africa. Remember the French army in North Africa did fight for the Axis against the British and Americans during operation Torch in 1942.
Wow, I was not aware of that. I suppose in that sense it worked out, but still, I got the impression the French admiralty had planned to scuttle the ships anyway if Germany tried to take them.
But you're right, hindsight is 20/20 and we don't have the luxury of examining a situation fully until after it happens.
that was a beautiful ship and like always you hit this one out of the park. fantastically informative!
waking up to a brand new iChaseGaming video. Thanks man.
A fine, well researched, V-blog. I enjoyed both the strictly technical, and the historical, aspects equally.
i love this series, keep em coming chase! :D
Thank you iChase, love the historical readings, more please 8-)
Amazing!!!!! I love this series
Thanks for taking the time to research this info. Very entertaining!
I cannot wait for French ships to be added.
they will probably be one of the last navies in game
I secretly pray for a Richelieu in Premium :)
+ArcticStrike yeah...what's the point of having German, French, and Italian ships if you can't pit them against the RN?
She'll be the best battleship of her tier, with the way wargaming armor mechanics work... can't wait :D
Very good video. Enjoyed it immensely. ty
very nice video, once again, as you well know, we all love this series, too bad its such hard work ;)
I'm not going to lie, this video seriously makes me want French ships in WoWS now. I've already been chomping at the bit for Royal Navy vessels, but the Dunkerque-class is quite nice looking as well...
Your research is spot on and very well presented in concise entertainment. However, you didn't discover the final line Darlan sent to Churchill: "I fart in your general direction!"
Yaaay Know your Ship!Loving this series :D
Great, episode loved all the detailed history and diplomacy surrounding her demise, I don't see why the French admiralty didn't just defect to the British, but I suppose they were old fashioned Ned Stark Officer types.
xlent episode! hope to see these BCs in WoWs soon.
That was great info. Keep them coming'
Mentioned this on Wpedia: The initial diagram at 0:28 is wrong. The density of fire diagram is wrong. Secondary density is 10 not 8 to the sides. The front secondary density is 2 on either side. The total secondary battery is 16, not 12 guns.
Great job as always!
Great video, as alway :D
there was another reason the british did what they did against the French fleet. it was to show both the germans and more importantly the americans, that Britain would do whatever they needed to carry on fighting, when at the time most americans thought the british would surrender within weeks, so sending aid and arms would be wasted. it wasn't our finest hour but it certainly sent out the right message that we would fight to the end no matter what.
+DazBull26 Agreed...sadly it was politically necessary to show the U.S. that Britain was in the war for the long haul. It changed a lot of American minds.
no, it was because they didn't want to let the Germans get the ships
+Mikhailia Gacesa Stabbing an allied float at the anchor was not only a crime,but also a dishonorating failure;there were four dangerous modern french battleships:Richelieu and Jean-Bart (who were not there),Strasbourg ( who was untouched,and even painted an officer of the Hood in yellow with the coloured spray of water of her shells) and Dunkerque ( who was damaged but reparable).But more than eight hundred sailors died on the old battleship Bretagne,and around three hundred others on more little ships.Englishes behaved here as Stalin,who did not execute people because they betrayed him,but because they maybe will have the occasion to betray him one day. French admiralty declared:"There is a spot on a flag,and it is not ours..." This very few honorable action had for result to stop the majority of french population to fight in the Résistance:why fighting for the englishes who behaved like false friends and traitrors?Let's better wait and see... a political failure also. Later,in Dakar,Richelieu and other french warships repelled with severe damages an english fleet which came to ask them to join de Gaulle's forces,or be destroyed But that time,there was not the surprise effect:the defense was ready,and efficient.Without Mers-el -Kebir,it could have been different...
No, that was UTTER foolishness....
+Sleipnir Odin destroying a tool that could have destroyed the free world and placed the Nazis in control of the world was foolish? what isn't then?
Very arguably the best Battle Cruiser ever.
4:50 and drawback No3: the ship couldn´t fire full salvos. They tried it once and realized that the ship would fall apart if they continued.
hello chase, I just wanted so say hi, I rammed you away from a torpedo on saturday, dec 6
Great video.
I would like to see a DD compare video
i congratulate you on what would i imagine take quite a lot of hours to compute
one of my favorite ships!
What is the name of those plans that you have an image of at the beginning. I would love to be able to find a few of my favourite ships
great video! never knew that this happened...always thought British and French were buddies..
No, French/Great Britain alliance is quite recent, in fact French Navy still deeply considers to this day the Royal Navy as a potential rival on seas.
Did you know the correct term for battlecruiser isn’t BC, it’s CC!
Did you say force H was formed in 1970? 13:16
theREDdevilz22 that what I was thinking I think he made an error
I've read extensively about this tragic incident, you did a great job representing it in this video iChase. It's always sad when nations feel forced to kill their allies, especially when it later becomes clear that the entire incident was caused by a lack of communication. It does show the level of desperation that the British felt at the time in containing the Nazi menace sweeping Europe at the time.For my part, the French & Italian Navies are the ships I most want to see after the Royal Navy is added. In all honesty I could have done without seeing the Russian Navy until much, much later in the design schedule of the game, but I know that they feel that a lot of their customer base is in their homeland, thus influencing the illogical high priority of the Russian Navy in WoWS.I just hope that they can somehow give a good broad representation of the extensive and varied designs that the RN had in the time period. I feel that a single line of BBs, cruisers & DDs (especially for the WW I vintage ships) will be pretty limiting. They really (IMO) need to split some of those lines into BB/BC & Heavy (armoured) vs light (scout) cruisers, *especially* for the British.
in world of warships is there that bulkhead inbetween the turrets or can you wipe out a turret with one salvo
so excited for the tier 6 premium coming in 5.9
awesome
AAAAAAHHH!! Thank you thank you thank you!
After watching this video I decide to watch the your video on the Hipper class heavy cruiser. I'm in the US right now and i got a message saying this video contains content from Eagle Rock and its not available in your country, Do you know what is going on?
+Suryia RUclips Red problems :( I'll eventually remake everything with Eagle Rock content
I hope you do the Richelieu Class soon :D
can you do anything on the austria hungary battleships?
or maybe some of the battleships that were sold to south american countries?
well to be honest, i really dont care which country its from but i love these videos. so much history. i wish all these boats would be in game.
I wonder if WG would model the unique turret design and make it so you could only fire 2 guns if your turret got knocked out
Again can't wait for the French and Italian Navies to come to WoWs!
Same here
Best decision Churchill ever made. He had to make more hard decisions during wartime than all of the politicians after him until this day. The fact that the French fleet was scuttled anyway, was sheer luck. Winston Churchill, great man, great politician, great military officer.
This was one of the allies warcrime, nothing to ne proud of
@@ffcn8198 explain how it was a war crime. I will agree it was a grim deed, but it was one that had to be done. If this counts as a crime, then the whole of war does.
Ughhhh captain hindsight !!! Where are you ?!?
I want you to do a 'Know You Ship' for Project 24 but i'm afraid you'll get her information wrong:(
Vive la France! Vive le Général de Gaulle
i finde this a said story about 2 ships whitch could have had a great service live in the US.
but hey, they have been on the planet:)
I'm still confused over whether the Dunkerque class is a battlecruiser or a battleship?
It had thinner belt armour the WWI British battlecruisers. That should probably settle it.
The classic battlecruiser/battleship distinction in English is generally based WW1 era British terminology (battlecruiser being battleship guns on a faster ship with cruiser thickness of armour). Other nations didn't really follow the intentional British design distinction in any religious manner (or don't even really have proper linguistic equivalents), either back during Admiral Fisher's period of advocating for battlecruisers or during the interwar years. You get all sorts of quirky not quite a battleship but not quite a cruiser designs that straddle a middle point so in English they tend to get called battlecruisers because that's the word English has got (or sometimes they're pocket battleships when they're smaller guns on a battleship armour layout - stuff like the Graf Spee's and the Sharnhorsts, with smaller calibers than early dreadnaughts but far more modern). Leading into WW2, these end up evolving into fast battleships and supercruisers (think heavier cruisers with guns halfway to early dreadnaught calibers). In many ways, the Dunkerque class fits the classic battlecruiser model but she's arguably really one of those odd transitional interwar designs that lead into the fast battleships (which the Richelieu class were). Dunkerque was in most ways a pocket-sized trial run of the Richelieu's layout.
ty
So any word when we might see this in World of Warships...? :-)
Why does she use the British flag at 10:12?
+Vuurkiller002 She was participating at the 1937 Spithead Naval Review
There were news that and an image that this ship is gonna appear as a premium ship.
So, are they adding this to the game?
eventually yes the French had a good navy as it had to keep up with the royal navy
+Lord Sylph (Darth) Most certainly, but not for a long while.
Urgh, vertical photos were already there almost a century ago.
How would you play her in WoWs at, say, T7, Chase?
Tier VI permiun....
LOOK IT UP...
Gamesghost CL55 Cleveland Question asked one month before the ship was announced as T6
LOOK IT UP...
+piritskenyer
2Pink4You
Gamesghost CL55 Cleveland FILTHY TK'er! :D
+piritskenyer
U ARE PINK :D
I want to see this ship on WoWs
Can't wait to set sail in French ships! (Somewhere in 2017? XD)
Hello Chase, for if the next episode is on the HNLMS De Ruyter you may find this interesting: at 17:30 and 20:30 (at 21:20 you can clearly see the 1x2 and 1x1 guns at the front) of this video ruclips.net/video/CT-B8go3PsE/видео.html she comes back at some other points in that video
From 30:20 you can see her a lot in the background and on 32:30 you can see her firing her guns together whith HNLMS Java with some Admiralen class destroyers near her
imperial measurements please
how about H-Class battleships
+Abhinav Kaushik Just the H39, please!
+Mikhailia Gacesa the H39/41 looks like it's going to be the German Tier 9, but you probably know that by now.
Force H 1970 really ?
The French navy couldn't sail cause of the repairs on the damage the Brits did. Funny how a small miscommunication killed all those ships and crew then led to the scuttling of 70+ ships. Even good people does stupid things when scared, these must be one of the Brit's dumbest moments.
Will the French Ships would be in WOWS?
+Justin James Aday Eventually they will be
i wonder if they will put either the French BB's first or the DD's just like the Russian ships release the DD's and the German cruisers on WOWS
hi
everyone be aware, extra XP the next three days in rank battles
Battlecruiser? I tought it was a battleship
+L Zh French terminology counts them as fast battleships, but they are considered battlesruisers, much like the upgraded Kongo class ships.
+L Zh The terminology of the class is at best iffy. As noted the French called them battleships (or rather ships of the line) in a different way from regular battleships (cuirassés). Thus the class waver from battleship to battlecruiser back to 'small battleship' depending on who is presenting them.
In fact they were designated as Scout Battleships... the battleships equivalent of Scout light cruiser...
is there anyone else who thinks that the layout of the backtowers realy stupid?
Why the fuck did the french not surrender to the brits? Like wtf they were allies???
German retributions across occupied France would have been horrendous. It was also part of the deal with the Germans that the French *not* surrender the fleet to either the British or the Germans, but rather to keep it "neutral".
In the end, far better to have your ships interned than to have thousands or hundreds of thousands of your citizens killed.
It was in Vichy French control which means the Vichys were fighting with the Germans so the Vichys didn't want them to fall into British hands
They could have kept neutral whilst still taking the option to sail to a French colony.
Why don,t you give stats in inches and feet.
I Tought Dunkerque was A Battleship
Force H was formed in 1940. not 1970. add annotations please.
+velikiradojica yup, screwed up. Meant to say 1940, but not feeling well so derped while speaking >_> I'll add annotation
iChaseGaming It's cool man. Thanks for the good work!
admiral somerville:" this is the greatest political blunder of all time"
Churchhill: "the french wont do anything back, for they lack the balls"
I know most people don't care but it would be nice if you also gave in info in inches : (
+hopatease1 USA, Liberia and Burma...what does those 3 nations have on commun?....they are the 3 only country in the world still strugling with mesure units more than 200 years after a perfect, scientific and universal way of mesuring had been discovered and shared.....
+Adams Khalfi The UK still largely uses it, some people I've met from Canada were taught it. Same with Mexico and several of the Central American countries. The US tried to convert to it, but due to overwhelming conversion costs the project was abandoned. Hundreds of schools are trying to teach the students metric in STEN classes as well.
@@peterson7082 I don't think the UK does largely use it. With the exception of miles and pints, everything here is in metric.
Good ol' fashioned politics gone wrong. Maybe its just my experience in the US military but I can't understand surrender while still possessing the capacity to fight.
+Brofisticus It seems many captains and senior officers of this era would rather surrender to a fight they could not win than have their entire crew killed. I think the idea of knowing that a 1000 young men could die if you make the call to fight such a hopeless battle is understandably a rather daunting one. It's totally fair deciding you will go down swinging yourself but I imagine it's rather different making the decision for so many men :L
+Tom Meakin They had the option to retreat to the UK and continue the fight along with the Royal Navy. The senior officers could have declared independence from their country and declared their fleet a sovereign state to prevent any violation of the armistice. Instead of being a badass pirate navy, they simply took themselves out of the war and caused this colossal waste of personnel and equipment. If they asked for volunteers, how many do you think would stay aboard?
Would have loved that option too !
Plenty of vessels from navies like Greece or Poland continued to fight with the British.
@@Brofisticus Retreating to the UK would have likely resulted in Nazi atrocities back home in retaliation. The French fleet was stuck between a rock and a hard place, trying to stay neutral. Gensoul was an arrogant ass but honestly, the Brits stabbed an old ally in the back out of sheer paranoia at MeK. Diplomacy with a heavily armed and prickly neutral (and former ally) while threatening to blow him out of the water is not going to encourage trust that anything you say is honest or genuine. The captain sent to negotiate should have realized he was dealing with a very distrustful counterpart and escalated the negotiation to his COs. The Brits were the ones who showed up threatening violence. It was on their head to avoid it if they genuinely wanted a diplomatic solution. They screwed it up, big time. Yes, the arrogant and prickly French admiral was the wrong guy for this negotiation but he didn't create the situation. The British admiralty did.
We should have flee ...
Dunkirk OP.
No, it seems well balanced. It can't shoot directly behind, and it's Citadel is weakly armored. It's guns are only 13" and the turrets could be weakly armored depending upon what's shooting her. And her secondaries and AAA are fairly poor, so she relies heavily upon the unique positioning of her main gun turrets and her speed and maneuverability.
Positioning the ship well will be the key to success as well as target selection. Armor is OK providing you don't show your broadside but can't handle shells from 15" and higher caliber whatever angle you're at.
And anti torp protection is fairly poor compared to the system used IRL which is my biggest concern and complaint about the ship's stats as of now. AA is poor but it is as it was... never had the occasion to upgrade it. At least, it means that regular Strasbourg will have more AA?
Wait until we see a refit Richelieu with North Carolina like AA !
it will be a prem bb
french ships...at this speed whe gonna have them in 2050 ingame
Being early....
+Vuurkiller002 Same here
At least i sais something different as first lol XD
if only the French had just gone to Britain
Sadly, there were no guarantee that Nazis wouldn't make French people pay for this by deporting people to concentration camps or forced works or whatever thing they could have come up with... So French Admiralty didn't want to take any risk to protect the Nation it was vital to stand still. However, sailing to the Western Atlantic colonies could have done the trick and allowed the ships to be redispatched quickly in 1943 to reconquer Western Europe. Imagines, Richelieu and Dunkerque could have helped allies on D Day !
But History is not about What ifs?...
The Bloody Brit's...
2x4 is a stupid design. Usable for raiders, but if you meet real battleships... you must run away to survive and then you have no guns available at all. So an extremely limited use for such heavy warships.
If you think about it, she is a battlecruiser, so she cannot really perform well against a big BB like Bismarck, but against a cruiser, she would be deadly, especially in poursuit.
The battle does not begin at firing range, the ship could withdraw well before guns are in range, making rearwards fire pointless anyway
Hmmm,mm,mm,mm............
Would have loved to know the reason the french officer neglected to relay the entire message. 1200 dead sailors on his head.
I would have sailed the fleet to Britain to fight the nazi's.
Maybe the french were confused at the prospect of sailing forward to england as they are more used to using reverse. hahahaha or maybe all those options of surrender got them so wet they passed out missing the deadline. hahahhaa
+Paul Reuten Why did the U.S. move the Pacific Fleet to Pearl Harbor? Roosevelt dropped the ball on that one.
Because of the Japanese aggression in China and other areas they moved the fleet because they wanted to have the fleet closer to the Japanese and to intimidate the Japanese into stopping. But didn't work
I guess I should be glad he didn't move the fleet to the Phillipines.
More like stubborness to me. Admiral Gensoul was not the best man for the job, obviously. Capt Collinet of the Strasbourg would have made a far better Squadron CO, it was thanks to hi skill and calm that the Strasbourg escaped unscathed, except for some measonery blocks from the uncompleted jety (the MeK base was still under construction) thrown off by Hood's 15" shells on her first salvo that landed and blocked engine room air ventilation shafts and thus suffocating one of the boilers room crew (and killing 5 of them who sacrificed themselves to make the ship run at top speed no matter what and no one on the crew noticed until the ship and her escorting DDs were far, safe from British hands in the evening).
They were lucky though, the anti mine detonation magnetic cords polarity were not set right and could have detonated Brit mines in the pass !
This is the definition of cowardness
Oh the French...so snotty.
what a waste...hmmm politics