Tally Ho Capstan Project: Machining the Capstan Drum to Accept a New Gypsy
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- Опубликовано: 15 фев 2024
- Tally Ho Capstan Project: Machining the Capstan Drum to Accept a New Gypsy
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Reconstructing the Tally Ho is an international project with many skilled workers all doing their parts.
Just wait till the international Globalists demand their own large piece of Tally Ho as repayment, for doing nothing, except making everything more difficult...
Keith Rucker being the best machinist for this job 💪 But I might be a little biased having watched many video's on all the great work he does 😉 then started watching Tally Ho and somehow ended back up here again 🤔
Not sure what would worry me more, machining cast-iron, the interrupted cut, the fear of discovering some sort of casting void or crack, or knowing it is a one-of-a-kind piece. Gutsy machining, your willingness to take on this task says a lot about you and your skill. Impressive
Agreed, my concern is this, how weak will removing all that material make it??
I am curious about how the new gypsy will be fastened to the capstan. Welding it without cracking the capstan would be a challenge. It looks like bolting it could even be a bigger challenge because of the geometry. Suspense!
You've got that right. I was waiting for an internal void to open up while machining. Seen it many times on castings, new and old. Also, I've inspected X-rays on large castings and seen voids that look like giant caves, LOL.
They should have cast it thicker knowing they'd be machining modifications to it. That bottom is only 1/4 inch.
I'm so pleased to see this capstan project really begin to come together. Two very skilled wordworkers, Leo and his wonderful team and Dave Clark the Pattern Guy, along with highly skilled metal workers like Clark Easterling at Windy Hill Foundry and Keith right here are all pooling their skills to make something both practical and probably beautiful too. and if the parts being made right here in the UK can be videoed then I'd LOVE to see that too! I'm soo eager to see the final end result installed and working on the Tally Ho. Best of luck to every one.
I've seen a short video of the machining of the new gypsy.
@@phlodel do you have a link?
@@jimrobcoyle I've been searching for one, but so far, no result.
Clark's project is super difficult too. That's a very complex casting he has to make. Goes to show that he's a good craftsman, that he managed to do it in such a short cycle. If it weren't for the worm holes, it would've been a perfect casting. This project is amazing.
@@jimrobcoyle If you go back to Leo's recent posting about the capstan, there's a few links in his video description. Haven't checked the UK connection yet (no time) but i assume there might be something on his video channel.
Armchair Quarterbacking: Spinning the tool post 180 degrees and putting the cutter on the right would have given you an extra 1/2 inch or so of travel without hitting the projections on the bottom of the capstan. I usually figure out things like that after a job is done. 🙂
That's a very nice way to add something to a topic.
That's what I was thinking.
We are all very happy to see how well this is going. All these highly skilled people working on the Tally Ho project are making this a great project. Congrats to all these craftsmen.
"Make do with what we have." It beats the heck out of shelling out big bucks for tools you'll use once. The mental challenge is part of what makes (almost) any job fun.
Especially when it works out like you planned!
Use it up wear it out make it do do without😂
@@Clyde6frame My mom (born in 1911) said this all the time.
Sure, if you have time and money to burn...if it's a matter of getting the job done and getting paid so you can pay the rent then the proper tools are essential.
@@arthur962, I wonder how many people commenting here are DYI or Shop owners, I really enjoy watching Vintage Machinery, Keith is a good teacher but I also really like Keith Fenner and Stefan Gotteswinter because they’re running real job shops and watching them working on projects or jobs and trying to make money on it is a learning experience of it’s own. Just curious of how many make their money from it.
A 12mm button insert would have made this much easier .Watching the cross slide move around like that oO
Also it would be trivially easy to make a toolholder for a button insert which instead of being cantilevered so far from the toolpost horizontally, was connected by a vertical column to the crosslide directly beneath the button. This is called a "tangential toolholder" and there is virtually no bending moment, it's loaded only under compression, meaning the stiffness is between one and two orders of magnitude better than for the horizontal cantilever.
It's always a relief to successfully complete the first job on a new-to-you machine. It gives you a confirmed hope for its future.
The capstan winch is designed to retrieve an anchor. The strain of anchoring in a storm is not put through the capstan. The chain is secured to boat after the capstan. Worst case scenario is retrieving a stuck anchor.
Leo has persevered through an amazing reconstruction but I don't think he has plans to salvage the TITANIC with this rig 😂. Maybe after
he finishes Tally Ho!!!
12:36 holly smokes, look at that post dance! :)) I rarely do interrupted cuts like that, but damn that's a lot of vibration.
edit: even on a downstroke, still dances. Can't wait to see this without that gimmicky taper attachment. I bet that steals a LOT of rigidity (at least it did on my lathe).
Needs a much bigger/longer tool, and beefier insert. That poor pointy insert is getting eaten alive.
16:16 notice the difference between the left and right turnings, i couldn't see the post dance but here's proof "Ya alls was right".
@@jarnoverhoeven3118 A tangential tool (vertical, mounted to the cross slide directly beneath the insert) with a circular button insert would be my pick. Relatively easy to make, maybe 50x stiffer.
But some of the same advantage can be had by fitting a lightly preloaded machinist's jack under the shank of the boring bar down to the cross slide. It has to be well secured (eg lots of gaffer tape, or better) because there will still be some vibration from the interrupted cut. The preload has to be sufficient that there is always positive support.
I agree that the pointy insert is a particularly unfortunate choice. But I can understand going with what you have, for a one-off, "for love" job.
@@Gottenhimfella fully agree, I also watch the "cutting edge engineering" channel, and those guys HOG material with those button inserts, in a recent video, he made his own insert holder for deeper cuts (given that those guys do truly massive turning).
I have done a little research into the term Gypsy for the chain handling part of a windlass. The term appears to have been in use for around 100 to 150 years. The most plausible explanation I have seen, is that around that period, Romany/Gypsy peoples were nomadic and tended to make similar journeys over similar routes each year. These routes became known as Gypsy Chains, so the part of the windlass that moves a chain, became known as the "Gypsy".
Better than naming it a catshole...
Thanks for that information. Makes sense.
Chain Gypsy is also the European term for them mainly. Here in the US they are better known as Wildcats. New Jersey has some MASSIVE ones on her deck
Or it was the actual gypsies pulling the chains...
I was wondering about the naming as well...Thanks
You should get the chain gypsy furnace brazed into the capstan, it'll really help strengthen that old cast iron
There is something satisfying about watching a lathe work ,with a calm southern gentleman's voice narrating
So glad to see this interesting project coming together from many skilled craftsmen. Can’t help but wonder if the 4.375 diameter would have been stronger If a small radius had been blended in on each side? No one has mentioned it so there must be a good reason why the intersections were left sharp.
I was just wondering the same I'm actually worried about it NOT being radiused. It might be better to reduce the diameter some more just to give it a radius. Keith if you read this can you give your insight? Thanks and nice job getting this back to working condition.
Square corners or intersections without a radius equals a crack!! Yes, a radius should be present. The history of this concept has been known for a very long time, including with the Blacksmiths of old. It may not have a crack now, but years of expansion and contraction due to heat, cold, and use will eventually produce a crack in a square corner.
Bigger the better for all the rads, giant amount of strength removed, if dia wasn't critical I'm having a wild guess that mating parts could have been chamfered to suit.
He could have used a round parting tool to make the two diametres same and give a radius, all in one pass.
Coming from a family of boat builders and fisherman, I've been following the Tally Ho project over the years with great interest on Leo's channel and of late yours and Clark's at Windy Hill. You may have already considered this issue, but my concern is about salt water getting in between the mated metal surfaces, and it will, with out some sort of epoxy like goop to seal it up. As a solid casting there were fewer faying surfaces exposed to salt water. The capstan will be mounted forward where spray and even green water my come on deck which could even flood the ring gear in the base. The rust demon respects no one.
Seconded. Once salt water gets into crevices corrosion can rip though the metal. The hard inside corners worry me particularly. Cast iron is subject to stress corrosion in seawater. Those machined corners where the new gypsy will be installed are going to be a danger spot. Get seawater in there and the winch could see corrosion compromise the structure quickly. Damage to protective coatings inside the mechanism could lead to failure as well.
I was wondering about that painting probably isn’t enough either. It sounds like you know what you’re talking about
Would’ve been a good idea to leave a large radius at the root of those cuts, there’s now a nice stress concentration pretty much at the base of the drum where it’ll see high stress from tensioning ropes etc.
I came across your video while searching for info on Pattern Makers. I've acquired a very nice pattern makers tool chest that has been dated to about 1870 and was owned by F.W. Fletcher, and would like to know where I might find more information about Mr. Fletcher. Great videos on the capstan drum. I'm a sailor, and ended up spending several hours watching all of the video's related to the project.
❤❤ my ocd wants to spray weld that center valley to build it up flush and then machine it smooth.
Keith you need one of those long reach button holders like Curtis from Cutting Edge Engineering made in a video a few weeks ago.
*Kurtis
Wow. Hopefully you still have enough material to maintain the integrity of the capstan. There’s going to be a lot of torque on that newly turned area not to mention the wieght of the chain pulling on it
Exactly, now the metal that was used to effectively gusset the rest of the capstan is gone.
Even if the chains were made of iridium it's not a significant weight compared to the strength of iron and a huge steel rod. By the comments here you'd think the capstan was made from shortbread.
I had the same thought. Mostly if a heavy load is put on the upper section. Hopefully the new piece is a tight fit and they consider welding it in somehow. The integrity of the remaining 4" section is unknown.
Don’t forget CI is great in compression, there is a huge steel spindle in the middle to do the work, taking the bending moment.
That all said, it’s a brave man to do this job!
So impressive. And, yes, like your other commenters, very gutsy. My hat is off to you, Sir. Nice work!
machining is slow work, but man what you can do is fascinating.
It would be nice if the gypsy insert could be made with a raised rim on it's faces, so the edge of the capstan slot and the rim could be both machined for a zero gap match. Bolts that mount the ring gear on the bottom could be extended into threaded holes in the rim of the gypsy to secure both at the maximum radius to maximize torque resistance.
I have an old World war 2 era Southbend lathe….it is a very small one…..now I need to learn how to use it
Yes sir. Yes you do. Have fun. Best of luck.
I like yer opening music…it brings to mind the music from the New Yankee workshop with Norm Abrams from years ago….
so glad the monarch lathe is up and running again!
Always a joy to see machinists or any metal worker restoring & upgrading something that was nearly cast aside. My brother was such a man-bought a car for $75, sold it for $70K fifty years later. RIP
I'm seeing the gypsy clamp having to be also bolted threw from the ring gear up to threaded holes in the upper to return support to the center. Since the old gypsy that was supporting it is now gone. 🤔🤔If it doesn't I see the top half snapping off.
Amazing workmanship. You are a master of your craft and make it look easy (which I’m sure it is not). A man of detail and precision and one who obviously takes great pride and joy in his work. Bravo!
Your work brazing a part on Leo's threading machine is what got me started watching Tally Ho. You Tube is a great community, and you and the Windy Hill team are examples of the best on the platform. Amazing work as always!
I had no idea there were so many "100 year old capstan" experts out there!! The amount of "know it all's" that have rebuilt capstans of this vintage is amazing. RUclips never stops entertaining!!!
All the world’s capstan experts gathered in one spot. 🙄
Well, I'm not a capstan expert and I don't need to be one to know that a sharp inside corner is a huge stress point will it matter? Perhaps not but why not make something as good as it can be? There may be a reason they were not radiused I hope Keith lets us know. Also when several people are commenting concerned about something maybe take a second to consider it before calling us "know it all's". When grinding a crankshaft if a small fillit radius is not maintained it will FAIL. I know this isn't a crankshaft but that's just an example of the impact a .060" radius can have on a part. This won't see very heavy loads for a 4+inch shaft but. One has to consider how cast iron fails I'd hate to see a crack propagate out of the corner. That said Keith works on a large variety of things including trains so I have to think that this will be ok just makes me nervous and what if he just forgot I know I have. Also, Keith is not a "100-year-old capstan expert" as far as I know. So if any input helps to remove a failure point that's a good thing. @@grntitan1
They are all military strategists and epidemiologists too.😂
Actually, there is nothing about this being a capstan or it being 100 years old that makes this job unique. It's simply a question of material properties in a mechanical system. It's well known that a 90 degree corner is a source of failure in shafts operating under constant rotational loads.
It's so good to know there are still experts in the art of sarcasm out there practicing their ironic art.
@@jeff10049 Love how someone immediately volunteers to demonstrate what Paul is talking about. Well done.
Always a pleasure to watch a master craftsman in action even if he does not have the perfect tool set. Another great video Keith. Thanks for sharing.
Nicw,job working around the limitations of the cross slide travel. Perhaps you will have to build a custom tool holder for a boring bar for these deep cut jobs next time you get one!
Cheers warren
Keith, at just about 20 minutes you have a MAJOR load-bearing mechanism driven at the bottom and one or two stress risers in between the drive and the load? Suggest a call to Leo.
It seems to be going very well. That's a big piece for sure.
a difficult job, you handled it like a PRO!
3:09 there's two areas, slightly concave. I think this might be from its fishing past. It might be that they used the chain area of the drum to pass rope through to slow it down, which would've worn that area down.
That area was intentionally ground down when it was made to clear the ratcheting dogs.
Allowing you to flip them for raising or lowering the anchor chains in a controlled fashion.
This is my favorite collaboration so far on Vintage Machinery. Thanks for taking this project on. I hope it pays dividends with crossover viewership from Sampson Boat Co.
You sir doing a great job. The skill in knowing how much you can go to get a safe margins for the cast. Plus the time, not only doing the work, but maintaining the cutters etc. plus off course your adding to tally ho history so big thank you for that. Plus the guys who worked on the moulding, pouring, that was 4/5 attempts hours spent there. Least we remember the guys in the background working on other projects for tally ho. God bless you all. Respect and well done so far. Not forgetting the captain lol off the boat 👨✈️ 👏👏👏👏🇺🇸🇬🇧
This makes me miss my years in the shop. Lathe is by far the most rewarding process to run.
People always say "carbide inserts for turning can't withstand interrupted cuts" bullshit at work we take square bar and turn it round and the first pass after touch off is 12-15mm (0.5inches+) and we can do like 30 bars with 0 problems. (500mm Long btw) 20 inches.
What a job. I follow Tally Ho & Vintage Machinery and it was neat to see them collaborate. I was wondering if the rhythmic interrupted cut created any risk of the casting shattering. Great video!
Been looking forward to this one
Excellent work 👏👏
Thank you for sharing.👍
Great job . thanks for sharing
This is FASCINATING! I've always been amazed by what skilled machinists can accomplish. I worked for many years in a sewing shop that had a machine shop next door, and I would often go next door after hours while they were still working to see what they were up to. They didn't mind me observing/asking questions, as long as I kept my GD hands off their stuff! Eventually they taught me some basics of their craft, and I still use those tips and tricks to this day in my own (very basic) garage setup. I never did quite get the art of welding down though ...
Nice work, Thanks!
Thanks for the update Keith - good progress.
These videos are wonderful. Thank you Keith
Coming from the UK I haven't heard people talking about a thou of an inch for about 45 years!
Fantastic job 😀
Thanks for your work on this great project!
Love it so much keep it up as always 💘
Happy Friday Keith and Leo!⚙️⛵️👍👍👍👍✌️
Quality work Keith, as always. Looking forward to all upcoming jobs, and then to see Leo receive it and get it back on the boat. Glad you are a part of it.
Fantastic improvisation. Great job. Thanks for sharing.
Nice Job!
Excellent work Keith.
Great work as always!
Outstanding restoration/upgrade work.
Great stuff! You sir, are a wizard.
Great job Keith
Thank you for another great video. Stay safe out there. Cheers
Very interesting project to follow...thanks for sharing!
Thank you Keith!
Mesmerizing lathe work. great to watch.
thank you keith
thank you Keith
Great job turning out that capstan in that tight of an area Keith ! I’m excited to see the capstan moving along and soon to be back to being installed on the Tally Ho !
Have a great weekend!
I'm enjoying the content. Thanks for working on the Tally Ho.
Very Cool, always fascinating watching a master craftsman.
great project!
Held my breath the entire time.
Very interesting. Well done!
So exciting to see this machine work being done .... making history live on in a new century .... another 100 yrs .... ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊 ....
Seems like somthing is loose in your compund or cross slide: Everything moves even when you just torque the screws on the boring bar.
I would suspect that the gibs are worn along with the dovetail surface. large lathes are expensive and were often used for dedicated machining where one location got used over and over. I built my own way grinding tool for repairing Mori Seiki SL 3's long slide. Every one I saw in my brothers machine shop (He has 10 running and three for parts all with Fanic controls) near the same vintage has a badly worn long slide that had to have the top way ground flat and square. the project takes about a week per machine and allowed me to back down the paramiters to flat again. I no longer do that work and finished the last machine almost 10 years ago. impractacle for a small shop to undertake unless you have a real repairman and the specialized machines to acomplish the repair. Often the diagnosis of the metrology is more challenging than the repair. That Monarch you have is a real nice machine! My last bigger lathe was a re-branded Harris 17 inch gap bed machine with a 3" bore through the spindle and an 80" bed. I bought it with some bad gears in the headstock and modified standard gears to fit the design of the headstock. That project took almost a year most of that time was saving up for the gears and redesign of the existing cluster gears to accept replacement parts. It ran in my repair shop for almost 25 years with no problems. a friend bought the machine from me and I can still get access to it when I want. I'm 74 amd still like to play in the shop.
@@martysmilt What you write about the SL3's are really interesting: Do you know how many hours the machines had on them before they needed the bed reground ? I suppose those didn't have plastic wear stips from the factory ? I was told by some guy at DMG that the ways would outlast the rest of the machine, but they would say that wouldn't they ?
I am hoping that yourself and all the skilled craftsman working on Leo's beautiful boat can make it up to Port Townsend for the launching. That would be an awesome group photo to go with the archives of this project.
A nice piece of work Keith. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
lovely peace of engineering and problem solving, a real joy to watch, thanks for this detail video series on this restoration project👍
Ya, i enjoyed that. Nice work!
On the etymology of the term "Gypsy" for the mechanism designed to winch a chain, This is the most plausible explanation I have found:
"As far as I am aware, the inventor of the gypsy wheel was a certain Lt Barbsten a French naval lieutenant who designed and cast a bronze disc that had glyphs i.e. equispaced carvings, designed to accommodate the chain links. He called this invention Disque Glyphe'. Now translate this into English: "Glyphsed wheel" and try to get a British sailor to pronounce it quickly. I believe that Gypsy is probably (I put some emphasis on the word probably as I am not an etymologist) the degrading of the word glyph (i.e carving eg hieroglyphics etc) , which by the way is a Greek word. Greeks have always had a word for it and in the case of the gypsy wheel, we call it "Alyseliktron" which translates to chain-pulling device."
Defiantly a challenging setup...nice work Keith 👍👍
What a great project for this lathe. Tally Ho!
Good job.
Are the guys in the UK still used to working in inches and still have the tooling and measuring devices for inches? I'd hate to end up with a Gimli Glider moment. Great job on being resourceful and figuring out a way to get it done.
Lots of torque will be applied to a much reduced column section with the new gypsy ! As a 79 summers boatbuilder and waterman, I'll be holding my breath for this load test ! As a hand powered capstan it would have experienced much smaller loads . Fingers and toes crossed this time Keith.
Well... yes, but also, not really. If we look at what he actually machined here, and what he *didn't* machine here, you'll see the narrowest / *weakest* section of the center column, the original smallest-diameter groove in the old chain gypsy/wildcat section of the casting, was actually never touched. So despite having "reduced" a lot of nearby metal here, that strength value in fact remains unaltered. And the *new* chain-gypsy/wildcat part (to be added as a two-piece collar around the center column in question), will not actually load the center column directly (I mean, not torque-wise, anyway), despite seating directly against it. It will be mechanically pinned/fastened to the horizontal face of the lower section of the casting below it. So this original base/flange/foot part of the casting will become the new primary load-path for the torque of hoisting/lowering the anchor chain.
And as such, when these two added-in half-collar pieces are also indexed/fastened to the bottom face of the capstan rope-drum section above them, they will effectively make the upper and lower portions of the original casting, become a *stronger* unit overall, than the original narrow diameter was on the un-reinforced center neck of the casing alone. So while hoisting the anchor chain will not be a strength issue at all, I think that reinforcement, should also mitigate most of the potential issue with increased torque forces with soft mooring lines, sheets and/or running rigging on the upper capstan-head as well.
Additionally, I suspect there may even be specific safety mechanism(s) in the new motor-drive arrangement itself, such as a slip-clutch of some sort. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some sort of provision/planning along these lines (no pun intended). I am waiting to see more about details of that part.
@@boatrat-- Yes, hopefully. Personally I'm waiting for the gypsy install to see how it's mechanically attached before making any assumptions. It's always a gamble to alter the original engineering in my opinion, especially on something that's worked fine all those years.
Nice Lathe 😳😊 - happy that you share your Work ! Thank You !
Two of my favorite RUclips channels working together.
Such a pretty lathe, good to see it work on such a big piece!
Very interesting content for this boat owner and fan of all the Tally Ho project contributors.
I’m a if fan of yours and Leo - been following both for years. Really fun to see the collaboration!
Enjoyed watching your skill with the lathe. Won't the capstan structural integrity be compromised after removing so much material from the center where then ew "gypsy" will be added? Doesn't the capstan have to deal with a tremendous amount of torque when hauling an anchor? And what about the new stress from adding the gear and mechanical system for hauling the ship"s anchor.? Lastly, how will the gear be attached to the bottom of the capstan where you machined the new surface? Excellent description of lathe work.
Great job, Keith. I wish my dad was still around. He would have absolutely loved your channel.
Glad to see more about Tally Ho.
I could literally spend my days learning what that man is doing. a lifetime of skills. thankyou
Excellent! I think that is the largest piece I've seen Keith turn.
Fantastically Awesome job Keith! Way to “Gettin’ her Done”
Keep up the great work my brother from a different mother, and father. WoooHooo
I've been watching the Tally Ho project since the day Leo found the wreck in an Oregon boatyard. It's a remarkable project. But I have to say, I've been glued to the Capstan rebuild. Each part of the journey has been interesting and educational. I hope the guys in the UK will add some footage...so that when all is said and done, Leo could cut a mini-documentary as the Capstan goes from being pulled from the old Tally Ho to being put on to the new Tally Ho.
The freeing her up, the patternmaking, the pouring , the milling/lathing work , and (I'm sure) the new piece manufacturing , plus the assembly...all the great content, by a "Boatload" of talented folks.
Wow, that lathe came out nice. I'm glad to see it making chips after following the rebuild. I think your parting shot with you next to the capstan on the floor really showed the size of the machine.
Thank you. Really enjoyed watching...cheers rr Normandy, France(will be a great addition to Tally Ho_)