MARKETING Hype? - Gravel Bike vs. Drop Bar MTB
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2021
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What are the real differences between gravel / all-road bikes and drop bar mountain bikes? Which is right for you?
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The talk track / script here was awesome. It was clear you prepared well Russ. Thank you as always.
Made a drop bar 29er in the pandemic . It's so good it's all I've been riding really
The road, mtb, and all the others have stayed in the garage. I can road, trail, greenlane my way everywhere.
This actually helped me understand my preference a little more. I like drop bar mountain bikes a bit better for gravel but gravel bikes better for road riding. Gravel just has the tendency to become too knarly for my tastes and the drop bar mountain bike gives me more riding confidence and comfort on those gravel roads that more resemble singletrack than a road of dirt.
My favorite part was your disappointing answer because "it depends" is actually the perfect answer. It totally depends on what you're riding most of the time.
It's almost like this is one of the unspoken core truths bicycling. Shortly followed by: "A more expensive bike doesn't have to be better." and "1x drive trains are pretty overrated."
@@gedrot2486 and for a decent amount of other things too. Like cars for example.
A typical ride for my wife and I here in the Saskatoon, Saskatchewan area might include short stretches of pavement, hardpacked dirt backroads, gravel roads ranging from lightly coated to 2"- 3" deep heavy gravel/crushed rock, rooty rocky rutted singletrack and miles of loose soft deep sand. Our Salsa Fargos (drop bar MTB) can easily handle all of these with ease, especially with the 29 x 2.6" tires that we run from 18 - 20 psi on the pavement down to 8 - 10 psi in the sand. With the long chain stays and low gearing we can climb stupidly steep hills without having to work on positioning to avoid front end pop-up or wheel spin. With the generous trail on the front we can easily bomb down those same steep hills and the ride is smoothed out on the washboard that is so prevalent in this part of the country all while carrying two weeks worth of camping gear. With their high stack height and Salsa Woodchipper bars we ride in the drops 95% of the time which gives us good steering leverage and a fairly agressive riding position to make those headwinds easier to deal with. Sure, they may not win a lot of races (depending on the conditions 😀) but for the ability to ride pretty much anything, anywhere, any time, they fit the bill for us perfectly. Thanks for a good article Russ. 👍
“…that way you can avoid punching your crotch. Something you want to avoid while riding bikes, and just in general.” Absolutely!!!🤣🤣🤣
🤣
Absolute
😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
Depends on what you're into.
Great video as usual and fingers crossed my new stem cap arrives in time to make the build on my new bike and so glad that you hadn't sold out.
Followed along with your geometry descriptions while referencing the geo charts for my '89 Trek 950, and I got a kick out of how closely it aligned with your description of modern all-road geometries. Horizontal top tube, 71* head tube, 68mm trail, 429mm chainstays, and low stack. Adds a little credence to the ol' adage about gravel bikes and vintage mountain bikes ; ]
Exactly. This is why 90s MTBs are factually the best gravel bikes ... all the geometry was perfect! My Bontrager TiLite is rocking a 425 chainstay with a 71 headtube angle, and also has a low Q-factor.
Nice to hear your take on the subject. Most people who make the comparison are making it from one point of view and don't really point out the advantages and disadvantages of both. They asses it from their personal likes an dislikes.
I truly appreciate your nuanced reviews.
I watched this when it first came out a year ago and it was helpful ... but revisiting it was really helpful after a year of modifying my stable :) Makes a LOT of sense.
Just bought a Salsa Fargo steel loving it !
Oh the days.... my parents bought me my first bike when I was 6 and back in the day (1966) one size fits all and I'll NEVER forget the first time I dropped on that BAR and hit that BONE.... OMG....... The pain. Something I will never forget.... Thank God for bikes that are age appropriate now!
My 10 year old was begging me for a drop bar bike. A family friend gave me his super small vintage Peugeot Urban Express! I put drop bars on that rig and now my son has an urban-ish gravel-ish bike!!
I bought a thirty year old Alan cyclocross for $200.00 and lashed out on new tyres and tubes another $30.00 .
It’s been a great bike and I get a ton of cyclists milling around it asking questions at the cafes and the $6000 gravel my friend rides gets no love .
I use my Fargo for around town and local coffee rides since it sits more upright and having some extra "meat" helps with comfort cruising. A wald basket or rear rack to grab groceries converts it into a nice all rounder. Low profile tread even at 2.2 still rolls really well on pavement on a 29er wheelset. Remove a rack or basket and easily transitions into dirt roads. My setup - 29+ Velocity Dually wheels with WTB 3.0 rangers, yokozuna brakes, ritchey venture bars, apex groupset with simworks bits. Cheers.
This is how I'm having my Riv Atlantis Spec'd: 700x55 tires (leaning towards knobbies tho) with a wide pair of drops and a rack that I can take on and off depending on what's in store for the day.
@@wheelzandgillz interesting I don’t find mine to be that heavy. Not sure what year yours is but mine has a carbon fork - and my upgraded wheels really lighten it quite a bit so that might be just my setup. It’s no featherweight though. Glad your Fargo gets some dirt time though. I’m sure that’s a blast
Nice to see a lot of Drop bar mtb’s review on your channel. I guess this is the new age of off road cycling as bikepacking has grown a lot these days. Looking for more. Cheers from Canada!
I went with a gravel bike with some handling tweaks. I went with a smaller frame with shorter cranks, high seat post, long stem and flared drop bars. I'm able to ride the roads fairly fast, but I can spin up trails quickly. The flared bars help navigate rough terrain. On the chunky downhill, I usually just get off the saddle and ride standing, without much worry that I'll injury myself due to the ample standover height due to the small frame. When on the road I can still ride fast outpacing even those on dedicated road bikes.
One way of putting it for me is how I feel after a big gravel descent.
Road based gravel bike: Wow, that did better than I expected. Glad to be down.
Rigid Mtb: Wow that was fun, let’s do it again!
Your points are spot on. I have a Trek Checkpoint and a rigid Surly Krampus on 2.6” tires. Love them both and they can technically go many of the same places but they go about things very differently.
As a side note I found I prefer flat or alt bars on the mtb based bikes.
If you’re interested in gravel riding, Russ has the numbers (and Pro Tips 😀) to help guide your bike choice. And then you complete that bike with the classiest stem caps available anywhere. 👍🏻
And if you listen to Russ you won’t get your crotch punched 👍🏼
Excellent take on the subject, thanks Russ
Thanks, Russ! I currently ride a Cannondale Topstone with a max 700x42mm, which I find way too limiting in the era of modern gravel bikes. I wish it was 50mm, but even the 650b setup is only 48mm. That is the main reason I'll be selling it. I just want more squish, so I bought another set of narrower 27mm carbon wheels for my full-sus with 2.2 fast gravel tires. My full-sus weighs as much as many alloy gravel bikes (27½# with pedals) and I find it more fun. I can set front and rear suspension for full lockout and basically have a rigid bike with moar meat :-)
Looking forward to seeing you get your hands on a Ritchey Ascent, which sounds like it's going to land exactly in between the two poles you describe in this video.
Awesome. Thank you Russ
Great video and explanation!
Thank you for the information. Have been doing some research on buying a new bike, and the more I look, the more confused I get.
I found visiting shops and taking bikes for trial rides to be really clarifying for my online research.
My gravel race bike is a Warbird with 700 x 40 tires. My go anywhere bike packing bike is a drop bar MTB (Salsa Fargo with a Rohloff hub 650B x 57). I also spend a lot of time on my All City Nature Boy single speed, which is designed as a CX bike, but has pretty middle of the pack road bike geometry. My road race bike is a Felt F1. Super twitchy low trail, short wheel base. All of thes bikes handle noticeably different from each other, and I need to learn to ride each one when I switch. But it only takes me a 1/2 mile or so. And interestingly, each one has very different feeling brakes. I find I have as much learning curve switching breaks from TRP to Sram to Shorty V breaks to rim calipers as I have switching from 85mm trail to 72mm trail to 65mm trail to 58mm trail.
I think it depends on your mindset. If you are satisfied with a type of riding that is light to medium terrain than a gravel/all road is probably best but if you are the kind of person who is naturally curious and likes to push boundaries than MTB platform. I also just did a 29er plus conversion on my 26er fat bike and love it!
My Trek 920 is imho the best of both worlds. In 52 it's basically a 54 Domane with a load of clearance (50-622 with fenders or 2.2, 2.3 without) and a longer, more stable chainstay. But because of the front geometry it's not sluggish.
Great video - I was considering a Salsa Fargo as a touring bike but with Jones H bars. There are many factors here, the MTB base geometry and additional stack over my Surly Ogre would appear to make for a sluggish steering geometry, but - as less weight isn thrown forward than with drop bars this would negate some of this effect. The other big factor, for me, is that I have back issues so the increased stack would give me a more upright riding position. So this is a compromise that suits me - and that's what it's all about, being able to adapt a frame and components to suit what makes you ride more. This channel has given me enough information to say ' Hey , that with that and that is what I need.' That is what i love about your videos - intelligent information for real world riding -thanks Russ!
Great mtb video! You content is awesome!
I’ve subscribed to your channel a while ago 😃
Based on your advice, I bought a mid 90s MTB
Let me see. (Scratches his head). I started riding mountain bikes back in 1995. If we look at gravel bikes these days in terms of geometry and where we like to ride them here 2021, I’m gonna say 26. 26 years is the REAL difference.
(Scratches his head)
@@chasestringer9619 (nowtices ywur bwlge) *OwO w-whats this?
Please review the surly lowside! Love the channel
Buy a decent 1993 Kona mtb, put some wider bars on it, and I'll bet you it's no worse than a £8k 3T Exploro on gnarly gravel.
Both helpful and entertaining. Friday I dropped by the local shop just to buy a bell for my grandson's bike. While there I was magnetically drawn to a sweet Kona drop bar bike. Knowing myself all too well I all but ran away. A grandfather should not be buying himself a new bike this close to Christmas.
Perhaps I should ask about layaway plans. Then I wouldn't be technically buying it before Christmas. 😃
I live in town in rolling farm country. I have to ride about 2 miles in town and 5 miles of paved county roads to hit gravel. Even in the hillier sections, the descents are not too technical and no singletrack. The all-road bike is a no-brainer. But, if I lived 10 miles out of town it could be a different story. Yes, "it depends". Great video!
Got a Fargo last year after 5 years on a Surly Ogre with Jones bars. The Ogre was fine on gravel and very gentle single track. The Fargo can go a bit deeper off road. The Fargo climbs much better than the Ogre. Have to say that I like the 3X9 on the Ogre over the 1X11 on the Fargo.
I've never understood why Salsa made the Fargo a 1X. I have an older model and LOVE the 2X drive train, Especially for Bikepacking..
I would go for the gravel bike, if I was planning on singletrack and or rougher roads I would just ride the hardtail I currently have. Yes, it will be slower overall, but "Party Pace" means chilled riding in my opinion
I would also chose a gravel bike any time of the week.
But I don't like the drop bars, and go for straight bars instead, with some nice bar-ends. Also some suspension on the front would be nice, for more comfort. The frame would be sturdy, to handle the occasional drop, and a rear suspension for more comfort in general, and more safety on gnarlier descents.
I’ve been riding a 650b gravel bike for some time and I was being fairly able to follow my friend on full suspension monster on some really gnarly stuff. Mostly it’s just fire roads, mild singletracks, thou… So yeah, it really depends on what you’re riding and your approach…
It sounds like just selling more bikes, but I like that a lot of mainstream brands are coming out with dedicated gravel race bikes. Those that look more like CX or road bikes but with wider tires. 700x40/42 vs 700x50. Now adventure style bikes can have better development into the genre. Maybe it’s time to start putting 180mm rotors on adventure bikes
Sloping top tubes also let you move the bike more under you for cornering on single track.
If you’re considering adding a dropbar mountain bike to the stable I would definitely put the Black Mountain Cycles La Cabra on your list. I suspect you would really dig that bike a lot.
Old thread, but I just purchased a 20" La Cabra. I know Mike wouldn't design a bike that feels dead. Excited!
great video. thank you. what about the over-gearing on seemingly just about every gravel bike? been looking at gravel but, pulling trailers and hauling children around town, i can't give up the low end i have on my 20+ year old trek 8000.
I agree. Throwing on a smaller chainring would be a easy solution, if you don't mind loosing some of the top end gearing.
I've owned a Vaya for about 5 years now, and just bought a Fargo early this year. When I got the Fargo, I figured ok, I'll ride that on gravel and trails, and the Vaya would be my "mostly pavement" bike. Over the course of this year though, I've found myself more and more turning to the Fargo for all types of riding. It's great on dirt, but is also actually not half bad on pavement, especially the kind of cracked and broken pavement that's common on our roads around here. It did take a bit of time to adjust to that different feel on the steering though.
Same here. Bought a fargo and ended up selling the Vaya because I didn't ride it anymore
The Otso Waheela is almost that inbetweener in some ways. Front end geo is closer to an all-road bikes but can fit up to 29x2.2(55mm) tires in 440mm cs mode, which is more like drop-bar mtbs. I've ridden mine in both short(420mm), medium(430) & long cs mode. 420mm on regular gravel descents & on steep roads wasn't my favorite.
Great deep dive!
Have you ride the Santa Cruz stigmata at all? I'm looking at that for gravel racing, I like the warranty the threaded bottom bracket and they have been great company to deal with. I've also been looking at the Poseidon redwood and the new X but weight is 10 to 12lbs over. Any ideas? Thanks again
Great content. Thank you.
the mtn bikes higher stack gives a better view of surroundings, and its so much easier to look behind u. something to consider if you plan on bike commuting and your skills arent the best
1993 Kona from ebay with slicks, best £200 commuter bike going.
I'm hanging out for the Surly Ghost Grappler to drop. After cracking my AWOL frame, I have been missing steel, but I couldn't find a frame here in Korea with back friendly geometry, like a Fargo. The Surly Ogre is very appealing, it just doesn't have the drop bar geometry I need for my spine.
Counterpoint; flat bar MTB is the best! Well, I’ll find out this summer if I’m right. Gravel bikes keep getting wider tires so starting with a MTB made sense. I picked up some 45mm gravel tires and just ordered a rigid carbon fork. Oh, and a clip on aero bar so I can keep the flat bars for more comfort and control in the rough (I haven’t learned to like drop bars) but have an aero position for the fast flat sections. My goal; be able to ride road, gravel and light single track and have a ton of fun on all. Being able to do jumps and wheelies was a must.
Sounds perfect to me buddy enjoy 👍🏻🚴♂️👏👌☀️...colin
This is one of the more sensible bike videos I've seen recently. Case in point: I have a gravel bike fitted with really nice 700 x 32 road tires that I use for urban commuting or touring on paved roads 90% of the time. It rides like an endurance road bike, only slightly slower and way more practical, since it has fender and rack mounts, of which I make full use. For the occasional all-dirt ride, I replace the 32mm road tires with 40mm gravel tires, with good-enough results. (I prefer logging roads and light-to-moderate single track to frankly gnarly, highly technical MTB terrain, to be honest.) For the kind of riding I do, it's pretty much the perfect bike.
I don't understand how you guys ar riding 40mm tires. I have 47mm (2 atm rear, 1.5atm from) and still on rocky terrain I have to take a walk of shame. I'm thinking about buying mtb frame with 27.5+ wheels
@@justdude8115 It's called 'underbiking'. Its fun, challenging and teaches you new skills, riding bikes beyond their intended usage.
Its all relative. I started riding trail on road race or touring bikes in the early '70s before most folks knew what an ATB was.
My most ridden bike is a fixed gear/SS cyclocross bike. More fun than should be legal.
Nice summary and certainly true if you look at modern MTB's, concerning the sloping top tube and slack geometry, but:
Often enough it's just old 90's MTB's that get converted into drop bar MTB, and as such they often have almost horizontal top tubes and the geometry is almost as steep as that of a modern gravel bike. On the other side, the top tube typically is rather long which requires a short and steep stem to compensate. I love my '93 Specialized Stumpjumper conversion! And I love my modern gravel bike! :)
I don’t see the point in talking a about 90s bikes that are no longer in production and not everyone has access to.
@@PathLessPedaledTV yes, I see your point and of course it's your choice which bikes you are comparing against each other and I don't want to beat the "all bikes are gravel bikes" drum here.
Let me put it this way: new gravel bike, yes please! New drop bar MTB: I (my personal choice) don't need one.
I thought about trying Salsa Woodchipper on one of my 29+, but I haven't tried that yet. I have straight bar on Muru Mungo and Jones Bar on my Surly ECR.
LOL!!!! I got 5 mountain bikes, all of them heavily modified for urban riding!!! 3 are 29ers and 2 are 27 1/2 rims with 29er tires.
1. I got road racing drive trains,
3x9
2. Serfas Drifter tires
3. Suspension seat posts
4. Stem posts that rise my handle bars up about 3 inches higher
5. Kept the original handle bars
6. Hydraulic brakes
I am 55 years old I stopped driving cars for health reasons! And you know what???
I love it!!!!
I don't get the drop bars on bikes, I really don't!
1x drive trains I are ok on the trails, but not so much on paved roads!!!!
But hey each to their own!!!
Enjoy your ride!!!!
I like riding gravel on a flat bar trail bike but riding over 25 miles in the national forest near the coast with winds over 20 mph ( common near the coast ) I can ride a drop bar gravel bike 50/100 miles with no problems. I can't do it on a trail bike. Wind resistance is why drop bars are better sometimes. I just wanted to help you understand why some riders ride drops. Keep riding friend and may God bless you.
@@saddleweary9709
HEY!!!! Thanks for your reply! For young skinny guys like you I am sure it works alright! But wait until you get old as the hills like me with a pot belly, no so much! LOL!!!
I do 25 miles to 50 miles rides not as much as you!
With drop bars I can not breathe as good as you, for me straight bars are the way to go. Also MTBs hard tails with a suspension fork and a suspension seat posts are the way to go for me.
And don't forget the 3x9 drivetrains, I love them for trail rides and what I call long distances road rides!
So with that being said,,, I truly hope all your rides are fun but SAFE!!! PLEASE take good care of yourself!!!!
@@lawrencesally6189 That was a very kind reply. What helps me is after 30min of studying the bible I train for one hour every morning first thing and I feel like there is nothing I can't handle that day. An hour and half may seem like a lot of time to take out of a busy life but it helps me stay fit at 51yrs old. May God bless you my friend.
@@saddleweary9709
You said the quiet part out loud!
(NICE!!!!!)
AND MORE POWER TO YOU GO SIR!!!!
Stay safe my dear friend.......
@@lawrencesally6189 I tried, it was hard without wandering if I was trying to dictate or make you mad and I told myself to hint as if you someone I've known all my life. A trainer only cost around $130 at Academy Sports and man, you won't regret it. Good luck man and may God bless you.
I have a State 4130 All-Road that I have upgraded a bunch. It's a fun bike and I have 2 wheelsets, the 700 and 27.5 with a 2.1 knobby.
I just ordered a Salsa Fargo to add to my stable. This will be fun to compare the two. I will do the 4130 All-Road with the knobbies and compare it to the Fargo which comes with 700 (29) x 2.2 tires.
I have wanted a Fargo for a long time.
your video is very interesting. I have a 2022 scott scale 940 and I thought about putting drop bars on it, the geometry is somewhat similar to a Giant Revolt but the big difference is the top tube of the Scott which is longer, in fact the top tube is longer than the drop bars mtb like Salsa Fargo . Would it be worth the change or would it be too complicated to adjust the new geometry? sorry for my english, greetings from Colombia
Russ, have you ever thought of going vintage mountain bike and putting on drop bars? I recently did this too my wife's 1997 Giant boulder. It has a really low and stretched out geometry already, so I upgraded the wheels to some used Mavic 517's/ Rene Herse Humptulips, threw on a Salsa Cowchipper bar and a short stem and I now have a really well functioning gravel/mountain bike that did not break the bank and I was able to repurpose an old bike collecting dust. It feels good to get an old bike back on the road or dirt.
I have. We live in Montana and its slim pickings for decent old bikes.
A lot depends here lol yea, I built up a 21lbs Drop-Mtb Hardtail (with front suspension and 3x10) and it's the best gravel climbing, road ripping trail descender I've built up 👍 Tires, components, and frame geo choice definitely contributed too, and fitness no doubt helps
My gravel bike has 2x11 Shimano 105. It is geared for hills but it can also move v quickly on the road. It can take up to 45mm 700c tyres, but 28mm road tyres don't look out of place. My MTB has 1x11 Deore and is lower geared. It can take pretty beefy MTB 29er tyres or gravel 700c (I use 45mm 700c on the same 29er wheelset)...but skinny roads would look out of place. MTB vs Gravel is a Venn Diagram of a discussion.
Great video!
I’ve never actually ridden a modern mountain bike. They just seem so overbuilt and pricey, especially since most out there are full sus or hardtail. Would love to get a rigid dropbar mtb with hydro disks that won’t break the bank.
I guess if you put drop bars on an older mountainbike you would get a mix of a modern mtb and a gravelbike. Perhaps it's better then both 😄
Might be tricky to operate something other then 26" and rim brakes.
Where do you think a bike like the Mone El Continente fits? I feel it is a strange middle ground.
I’ve been a mountain biker for a long time. I have hard tail and FS bikes. And I have a sweet rando bike For mixed roads and 24 hour rides. I thought hard about a gravel bike. And got a warbird grx810 in 2020. If I was a bike packer, then I’d prolly go with drop bar mtn bike. But I have some sweet backroads and gravel road loops here in central WA. That are perfect for my gravel bike. It’s like my rando bike on steroids. But I do dream of doing the continental divide trail on a Cutthroat!! Thanks Russ!
I think you mean Great Divide Mountain Bike Route (GDMBR) and not the CDT right? The CDT is much more gnarly especially in CO and even a full suspension bike is not enough in some spots i.e. hike a bike.
Should do a mountain bike / cyclocross budget build challenge.
I bought a thirty year old Alan cyclocross for $200 and another $30 on new tyres and tubes ind it is a great ride .
Most expensive thing I’ve bought to upgrade is the new stem cap I’m waiting on .
What kind of brake set you used of mtb drop bar? Because its kinda clean.
Would there be a way to make tire that could change their width in real time? Kind of like a sea anemone? how cool would that be?
I have a gravel, all-road bike that I use to commute. It's okay, and it can handle gravel, but I LOVE LOVE LOVE my Fargo❤️. I won't win any races (although I have a few QOMs) but she's taken me so many places I could not have ridden with an all-road. I can ride for hours and days, comfortably and confidently. Chunky climbs, nasty ATV trails, and bombing downhill B roads. You barely notice any handling differences with full bikepacking gear until you climb. She's a heavy beast but I can't say enough good things about the drop bar mountain bike style.
I think something that needs to be noted is that a lot of dropbar MTB´s have suspension corrected forks. This makes it possible to replace the fork with a MTB suspension fork with 100+ mm travel. This includes bikes like Salsa Fargo and the Otso Fenrir. I have yet to see a allroad/gravel bike that uses a suspension corrected fork (for 100+ mm travel).
Just some thing that needs to be considered if you are in the market for at dropbar MTB. Kona Sutra ULTD for example, does not run a suspension corrected fork.
Another thing Russ, don´t you have a Salsa Cutthroat, isn´t that what you consider a droppar MTB?
I think the percentage of sus forks put on drop bar mtbs is pretty small. Would rather go rigid and have more frame available room.
@@PathLessPedaledTV you are right, there might not be a lot of dropbar MTB’s with that property, however some of the most popular ones, like the Fargo and Cuttroat have it. It just seems to me like it is a differentiator. No allroad/gravel bikes have that property, some dropbar MTB’s do.
@@PathLessPedaledTV - I would generally agree. I've done it once or twice myself, but it's been for very particular and well thought out reasons.
I've lost track of what's in your stable these days, from memory: The Polyvalent, The Jones SWB, The Rivendell, the Crust Bomborra, do you still have the Cutthroat? Help me out guys what did I forget?
I ride a hybrid that runs MTB wheels 2.2 tyres and a riser bar. Perfect for gravel and bike paths plus smooth single track very comfortable
Have you ever reviewed a Kona Unit X?
Full suspension 29er with lock out mt bike, you can run higher pressure with 40mm so when on pavement of pack you roll faster, lock out when climbing, unlock on bumpy downhills, washboard. Spinachi bars for the drops, take off on full mt bike day. Run 40mm on gravel days and 2.3 on mt bike days
Great explanation! What is that matt black bike at 39s, with D1x shifter installed on it?
Ibis Hakka. We did a review vid on it.
My best gravel bike is my new 2023 Surly Ghost Grappler.. Love the heavy steel feel.. Very comfortable and love the big tires.. Drop Bar Mountain bike for me feels like a beef up gravel bike, and l am a better rider with drop bars, Have years of road and gravel and like the new gravel drop bars coming out lately... I went Surly Truck Stop bars because of the rise and wide
Roads here in the Philippines is unpredictable. Potholes and big vertical road cracks my go to all around bike was my Fargo with 27.5 Plus tires. Love it and trust it.
Next video “is there a difference between cross and gravel bikes”
Sonce specialized crux is being marketed as their cross bike as well, guess not so much (except to race cross there is a maximum tire size and maybe some other frame rules?)
Hei Russ, you hit the nail this time! Greetings from Norway!
These differences in geometry are significant indeed. So much that i feel a need to have two bikes. While my all road gravel fits precisely in a first category, my monstercross gravel have numbers identical to the second group. Your geometry chart is spot on!
However, you did not mention one very important topic at all -- the gearing. While in my all road i run a typical 46/30 crank, in the monstercross it wasn't enough. For bikepacking in a mountains i need shorter gears. I wonder what's you take on gears?
Lower the better. Gearing doesn’t affect handling so I left that out.
For bikepacking in big mountains I'd recommend lower gears than you ever think you'll need. I use old mtb triples 24/36/44 and 11-36 on bikes that see some road riding and dirt. My 29" monster cross uses 20/36 or 22/38 and 11-36 cassette.
1Xs are worthless to me.
When you're simply beat or on a bad day, and or climbing 80% of the day, you just gear down and move at a survival pace. This is way beyond 'party pace'. As in just fast enough to not fall over. If I'm cooked and really struggling, I stop, rest, eat and or take a nap. Its great hauling around your household! Folks are squatting/camping everywhere these days. I'll do it on the side of a lonely trail until some busy body ranger asks me to leave. Pro tip: get a dynamo light set up to get far beyond mere rangers. Just try to camp somewhere out of sight. Only the wildlife knows youre there!
I'm looking to get a Surly Bridge Club and convert it to Drop Bars for the sole purpose of being a dedicated bikepacking rig. I'll likely do something super wide (44+) to keep the twitchiness down. A MTB is really required in the western NC mountains and I personally just prefer drops to flats. My all road gravel bike (Ribble CGR) with 48x650b really struggled on those overgrown forest service roads while weighted down so I want something a bit more capable.
ECR would be slight better as a drop bar bike. I looked into getting either the BC or the ECR to drop bar & people suggested to size down to drop bar either, but the ECR is better suited for it.
@@Alex_564 How so? Looking at BikeInsights it seems like the geometry is almost identical, with the ECR having a slightly longer wheelbase and higher trail. Unfortunately the ECR has been discontinued so getting one would require a lot of luck haha.
@@goldenjosh that would be something to ask the Surly groups as I went a different route. Didn't realize the ecr is no more as I still see it on their site in either tire size. Didn't check every size to see stock.
@@Alex_564 yep. If you look at the ECR in their site it says "R.I.P 2021, we will no longer sell or produce the ECR" near the top. It's a shame really
Personally prefer a gravel bike if I’m riding mixed terrain (30%+ road). If it’s mainly gravel with more trails and chunky stuff, I’d prefer a mountain bike with a nice sweepy (non drop bar). One benefit you pointed out about drop bar mtbs having more stand over is actually a big drawback for bikepacking. Generally means less room for a frame bag resulting in more gear under the downtube or gear on the fork. Neither all that preferable in my opinion.
My 2018 khs grit 440 is practically a mtb albeit the gravel gearing with 27.5 x 2.5 tires with tannus inserts.
I can only imagine if I put drop bars on my XC hardtail it would ruin it. I like my gravel bike but wide flat bars give you much more control when things get sketchy. I can quickly adjust my position over the bike to stop the front washing out on my mountain bike but I have much less chance of doing so on my gravel bike (from painful experience).
I think your bike, as is, sounds like a perfect gravel bike. One that can handle all the chunk that these drop bar MTB can handle.
Always the option of an alt bar like the Surly Moloko or Corner Bar. Those seem to work fairly well on an existing bike you already own as they don't change the reach as much as adding regular drop bars. Both give you multiple hand positions including the "hoods" position which lets you be more aero. Downside to both of those models is that they are made of steel and are boat anchors. There are similar versions and even carbon copies (literally) on Ali.
When time came to buy a new bike, I looked long and hard for a single speed gravel bike. I figured, being in a limited budget, foregoing the gears would leave more money to build a great frame. And for my rides, where I live, I don’t really need gears. But finding a bike that fit my brief was very hard. Have you done anything on single speed? IMHO, they’re the best for unserious party pace riding. And I can spend less time on maintenance, more time riding.
Learn something new every day. "Baby heads" (stones on the path), "thick meats" (tires), "crotch punch" when the bar or seat bashes your berries. Haha!
what is the frame size?
In the 90s John Tomac raced a mountain bike with drop bars. He did this because he was racing the road at the same time and wanted similar positions. I ride a gravel bike because I’m on pavement more than dirt. If I want to ride technical sections of dirt or gravel I‘ll ride a flat bar mountain bike. Flat bars are much more stable
8:41 Channel will really explode when you post that screwdriver hammering in a nail video.
In addressing the high trail #, would a shorter stem make a difference?
To a degree.
Un sitio de mucha ayuda.gracias
Thanks for this! I hope you walk us through your decision process whether you choose to add a drop bar mountain bike to the stable or not.
I've been eying the Fargo and the Otso a lot.
How's the bike in snow?
I don't understand a drop bar MTB over a flat bar MTB. Are the benefits mainly more aero and hand positions which really wouldn't be that beneficial for single track riding, would it?
Much of it is personal preference as some of it has to do with the type of rides you are doing. I tend to prefer my flat bar MTBs for shorter rides or rides of a more technical nature.
After 2 hours, or a ride that is going to have a mix of single track with longer connecting sections of gravel and/or rougher fire/dirt roads, I'll usually chose to go with drop bars. More hand positions and the seating position is a good part of that decision choice for me.
If I'm taking a trip somewhere that I'll potentially have many types of riding I want to do, I'd chose the drop bar MTB. I took my Salsa Cutthroat to CO last fall and used it on longer gravel rides (Gold Camp Road), paved rides (Mt Evans) as well as non-technical singletrack. I took my MTB with me in case we got into some more rowdy singletrack, but ended up only using it a couple of times.
Bearclaw beaux Jaxon is my go to gravel adventure bike.
Do you think you'd prefer 2 inch or 2.4 inch tires for your most-used bicycle?
2.1 to 2.3
Next up: Flat bar gravel bikes (e.g., Specialized Diverge EVO) vs. flat bar rigid MTBs? Or, did you already address this similarity, Russ?
Agreed! Looking at the Breezer Thunder to replace my hardtail. Seems like much better value than a drop bar since those brifters are so damn expensive.
AFAIK Flat bar gravel bike called hybrid bike years ago.
@@laillosidgar I call hybrids chameleons because you really don't know what a hybrid is capable of. They can take 23c all the way up to now 45 or 50c. Depending on the weight of the Bike ( you wouldn't want to put a pair of 23 or 25s on a bike that weighs 40 lbs harsh ride). The truth is until the person told you you would think he or she has a flat bar road bike. Just my thoughts though
@@tmayberry7559 True, but i want to point out, what you just said in line with manufacture said about flat bar gravel. Blurred category tends to confused everyone. Each person has different perspective about what gravel bike should be. My grandpa's steel bike (a dutch bike/ city bike from 1960) weight 17-19kg (+/- 40lb) depending when put basket or not and use 700c 25.
@@tmayberry7559 Oh and I had some hybrids, from 26" to 29", rigid or 60mm travel, from cantilever, v brakes, to newest hydraulic disc. From roadbike geometry, to almost XC geometry. Just put dropbar and brifter, you can called it gravel bike
i have weird bike which is 700x40 tire big clearance and aero frame and geometry just because its basically their road bike mold that reshaped as gravel😂
More exposed seatpost on a sloping top tube also means more seatpost flex due to more exposed seatpost. Really there's not really an upside to a horizontal top tube these days unless you're looking for more volume inside the front triangle for shouldering (CX racing) or a framebag/gear (bikepacking).
Sloped toptube means your balls are safer and that should make your decision for you if you really can’t decide.
Not going to blow it up here, but I prefer for my recreational riding, gravel road and two track, I like an all road bike with alt bars. Current runner is a Surly Bridge Club with short stem and Jones 2.5s for bars. Add a suspension seat post. My commuter-utility bikes are hybridized MTBs from 84-2015, again with alt bars. My back and hips just don’t like drops.
I want a stem cap, but my party-pace bike has a quill stem :-/
I am from the opposite side, I never rode a drop bar bike. Why would you want a Dropbar MTB? Why not a regular XC flat bar MTB? Or a plus bike stiffy if you hate idea of suspension fork?
I have a bit of a belly and just idea of riding hunch over all the time is very unconfutable, I put short stems a high rise bars on my bikes for comfy upright position. I now it's not most efficient way of riding, but I'm not there racing, I just enjoy the rides.