Ovett vs.Coe. 800m.Heats,Semis and Final -1980 Olympic Games (plus interviews)
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- Опубликовано: 25 янв 2013
- Before the Games it seemed easy -Coe would win the 8 and Ovett the 15.Simple.Except of course it didn't work out like that....As it says in the title,Coe & Ovett's heats and semis,along with the final and post final interviews.
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41 years on and I still remember Ovett’s “ILY” I love you, message to his fiancé at the end of each race!
Two of the greatest middle distance runners of all time! They inspired me as a collegiate runner of the time in the USA. Bravo to both as I have never seen this race until now since the USA boycotted 1980. Cheers to them! Absolute beauty in motion!
What a great compliation - I was 18 at the time and this was painted as a classic battle of Royal v Rebel. I was in the latter camp with Steve Ovett
me 3
I was a young kid and disappointed that we boycotted those Olympics. I was a big fan of Coe and saddened when he lost but was ecstatic when he redeemed himself in the 1500.
Steve Ovette is in my opinion the most natural talent I have ever seen 1500 and 800
Started as a sprinter and just kept going up in distance. Best kick I ever saw. Would kill anyone.
He and Coe were both fantastic. We were blessed to have them.
he ran high mileage for those days for a 1500m runner coe trained more intensively but ovett was banging out 160 miles a week trained on merthyr sand junes too for strength
Absolute legends!You had to witness the 1980 Olympics live to realise how massive this was.
All that excitement and National pride back then, in two great atheletes that we all knew were unbeatable. never to be equalled. I don't know one single British athletes name today. P.S. Mustn't forget the great Steve Cram too.
yay & hats off for steve cram
but
the brits are teeming with talent!
fingers x'd laura muir tops the tokyo '21 podium.
Half the world boycotted.
@@thomas1630 Didn't make any difference to the 800m/1500m - Coe and Ovett were clearly the best two in the world and it was always going to be about the battle between the two of them.
Steve
The Best Runner of the World...
Forever my Favorite Ovett..
Ovett was an amazing person.
Wonderful to see this. Thanks!!
David Coleman sums it up brilliantly 'that was a race about experience'
Ovett was the street fighter of the two
Exactly
Brilliant commentating.
Just another great race from Steb Covett. Apologies for my play on names. Truly, both great competitors.
Real hero Steve ovete
Ovett was the strong man on the day.
Those blue eyes like chips of ice!
Ovett, my middle distance hero. The ultimate racer. Had everything and was 'the boss' when jockeying for position - no-one was ever going to knock him off his stride. Coe, so fluid and effective. Yet, Ovett, the best-ever racing tactician, prevails in the 800. The tables turn in the 1500, as Coe, for me, is the best middle-distance talent ever. Think about technology, shoes, knowledge. And yet Coe's best time at 800 of 1:41:73 still holds up as truly great. But, even although Coe was so brilliant as a runner, Ovett was my hero as he had grit, heart, also great ability and such a well-developed racer's brain.
and the world record is held by??????
Spoilers
@@fergusalex how long did Coe hold that record ?
Ovett had no tactics, he just pushed people out of the way.
ovett was the talent,coe was the manufactured-think messi and ronaldo if u like.who was really the best? who knows
Wonderfull thank you x
I've never bought into, coe lost the race because he was nervous. He was guilty of complacency. He thought he could beat ovett, at his own game, and it backfired. In the 1500 there was no nonsense, with coe right up with the pace.
Ovett had a hangover in the 1500
@@chrisearl5970 The mistake ovett made, was being behind coe, rather than ahead of him, going into the last 200 - 300 meters.
@@chrisearl5970 MMMMMMMM it's true ovett got very drunk after the 800m !!!!!!!!! Very drunk indeed,,,,,,TOO RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!
Coe didn't seem to make up any ground on Ovett at the end.
Wow, they played it rough in those days, Ovett would have been shot down on the spot if he tried something like that today !
Ovett had a right boiler on him. Strong man where Coe was more skinny. But they were both wonderful runners. What times they were.
It was a much more dangerous era of racing. As the commentator pointed out you had to watch out for sudden death from getting caught on the rails and hypnotism as well!!!
Спасибо за полный обзор!
commentator was David Coleman and the interviews were Reg
Gutteridge with Ovett and Harry Carpenter interviewing Coe, all three
legends and none of the new lot can hold a candle to them, not by a long chalk!
I believe that was Adrian Metcalf interviewing Ovett.
56 second first lap...a cakewalk!
Those 800 heats and semis-ovett was as impressive as ever but coe walked home his semi that acceleration when he put his foot down..and im an ovett fan.The final,yes coe ran poorly but ovett was never ever in any trouble.An easy win for ovett.Once he had won that,I think ovett would rather have packed his bags for home.....
Former sub 150 800 guy.What bothered me about Coe is he would look over his shoulder 4 or 5 times last 200 when he had a 30 meter lead.He ran like a coward.
Ovett is the only miler since the 1940s, to set 3 world records at 1500m.
My fave
Pure talent. Could do things as a kid, that experienced international runners could only dream of. Talking during minute lap reps, a kick that made other runners look silly. Converted sprinter really.
@@SirPeter6464 complete one off....just a runner simple as that
@@SirPeter6464 was OVETT English schools 400m CHAMPION 1971? Ovett WAS a fine sprinter and was running 47.5 for 400m in 1974 I think WAY waaaaaay before coe finishing 2nd in the AAA 400M OF 1979 in 46,87 !!!!!!! Seb and father initially copied/followed WHAT OVETT had already done YEARS before ESPECIALLY ovett running 13:25 for 5000m in1977!!!!!!!!!! Ovett was also NATIONAL CROSS COUNTRY CHAMPION JUNIOR in 1975!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A few years after becoming 400m schools champion!!!!!!!! WHAT A MOUNTAIN SEBASTIAN COE HAD TO CLIMB!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT AN ACCENT!!!!!!!!!!!!
thnx much for posting the heats/semis/final together...
a few points:
firstly seb did run alright in the final except for the back straight when he seemed to lose his concentration. perhaps his nerves got to him as his thoughts didn't appear to be on where he was and what he was doing.
secondly, its difficult to understand why so many fixate on why coe lost the race. at this point in steve's career, I simply do not believe that seb was capable of beating him in the 800 during these games. I will grant that coe had the records, however, posting the fastest times was not ovett's focus. this situation would change in a few years however. steve was naturally a better sprinter but his training emphasized distance. seb's training had begun as though he would compete at 3k or 5k but he worked extremely hard at developing his basic speed. possibly coe worked more at being a sprinter than steve worked at being at maintaining his own speed.
lastly, though they had similar goals, seb and steve, I believe some of their respective motivations were different. for seb, winning was what was it for him, how he felt better about himself maybe? for steve, in my opinion, competing well and doing his best was his thing and I think it shows in how they both reacted in victory and defeat.
+drrsc Good points drrsc. Yes, Coe seemed to be having an out-of-body experience at the time. He could literally see himself losing the race as if he was watching the race on TV. His friend Brendan Foster says, somewhere in commentary in one of the documentaries after the event, that Coe's mind was not focused on the race. We can see he had poor tactical nous throughout the first 500 metres, when it was required the most.
Coe was capable of beating Ovett on this day. Ovett and Coe were so much better than the rest of the field that they could both have a bad day and still come away with the gold and silver, which is what happened. Ovett also got it badly wrong, allowing himself to get badly boxed in the first 200m, causing a lot of bumping and barging for 300m. Ovett got it wrong - but Coe got it more wrong!
The luck went Ovett's way when he was saved by David Warren taking off on the second lap. This opened up the field in front of Ovett and he was able to get a clearer run down the back straight on the second lap, stretching his lead over Coe to five metres at the 600m point in the race. He took full advantage and secured the race at that point.
You are right about their motivations being different. Well, they were, until they merged somewhat. Ovett was all about winning. Times didn't matter. Initially, Coe was motivated about being the best, and for him, that meant being the fastest. Both these motivations are different routes to the same thing - being known as the best.
What is interesting, is what happened after Prague 1978 when Ovett beat Coe. Coe's running strategy changed completely, to mirror Ovett's. This shows to me that Coe lost confidence in his club runner style, front running tactic. It's also clear he wasn't confident when he was always looking over his shoulder in fear that someone was going to catch him! He wasted many potentially great performances in his career because of this loss of confidence.
Steve was very humble both in victory and defeat and I feel he did get a lot of very unfair press at the time, which is to the shame of those who wrote it and those who published it.
But yes, there's a lot of interesting psychology around what both Coe and Ovett went through t the time. A book could probably be written about it!
commentator was David Coleman not Brendan Foster...the interview was Gutteridge with Ovett and Harry Carpenter interviewing Coe, all three legends and none of the new lot can hold a candle to them.
The lance Armstrong of track...only Armstrong won his events!
800m is the best running event in my opinion. You have to have sprinting ability and long distance capability. Best all around type of runner.
Interesting to note that the anthem that plays after Ovett and Coe get their medals is not the National Anthem but the Olympic Anthem - as the British Olympic Committee would not let the former be used at medal ceremonies, nor indeed the Union Jack.
JasonC1782 I'd have asked for Land of Hope & Glory.
Coe loved Thatcher - apart from when her policies effected him.
That’s because they weren’t there as official British Athletes due to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, they were representing the British Olympic Association. The Americans pulled out completely.
My favourite moment is Alan Wells Winning The 100metres Gold at the Moscow Olympic Games 1980 being played out in the rivalry between Steve Ovett and Seb Coe ...S.O. 1G And a 1 Bronze S.C 1G and 1 silver...truly magical and USA boycotted it and it was reciprocated by the Soviets in 1984 I watched both of them and remember them fondly besides the two most memorable commentators David Coleman and Ron Pickering today cmmtrs haven't got the presence and atmosphere into your living room like these gentlemen brought you would think they were virtually in your living room ...also the Olympic committee deemed the world records were null and void because countries like East Germany were cheating considering some of the woman were built like men thru steroids abuses and anabolic steroids as well so when I heard that i wasn't surprised at all....But It was still worth every second watching it unfold on tv..... And retrospectively enjoy going back to my days when I watched the games and world championships and commonwealth games...thanks very much
Classic memories.
Wow! What a great rivalry. Don't you just remember all those great occasions when they avoided running against each other?
Great vid, I wish someone would make one for the great 1984 Olympics 800, no one went out in :56...... brutal prelim rounds.
i remember coe dodging ovett..
@@joemcm1 Exactly, where did you happen to read about that?
Steve Ovett ran the perfect race, Seb - as he'll tell you himself - didn't even give himself a chance. He choked his behind off.
I never thought you could win by pushing around. If you are so great you should run like Rudisha.
David Rudisha didn't appear until 30 years later better if you had said " they should have run like Alberto Juantorena",,mmmmm better 👍✌️🙏😁
Wanted ovett when everybody wanted Coe
it is interesting even today to see Coe , Ovett and Cram as middle distance sprinter best in their times wonderful.......
...as the last 2 laps of the 15 was really an 800m race. Ovett was like a lion in this race, Coe was waiting in the wings but he still reigned supreme for a little while longer. But for the railing accident there would have been more fireworks between these 2
Maybe because of the barging and getting a little angry, Steve got a surge of adrenaline.
Coe beat ovett in the 1500 but ovett proved to be the better man of the two Coe behaved like a big baby when beaten where ovett took it on the chin .
Just matters what night you win it. Go Steve
When you look at the whole thing you do wonder where they draw the line to disqualify such a physical contact sport
There is no way that was within the rules. You run ahead of someone then it is your space. Can't be grabbed and wrestled like that. If that had been a Diamond League (other) he would have been thrown out.
Much preferred Ovett to Coe.
Blood doping Coe...the Lance Armstrong of 🏃♀️running.
Thanks for posting this up. It was great to see it all again in such detail. The interviews at the end were interesting too. I remember Coe saying he committed more "Cardinal sins...what a race to choose" and I'm thinking "yes! How right you are!" But his analysis of why he lost the race was completely wrong. Easy to say with hindsight.
He lost the race firstly because of the ridiculously slow first lap and his choice to place himself at the back of the field. At 250m, Ovett was hopelessly boxed and if Coe had been tactically aware of this and taken off then, he would have won by a big margin. But he didn't. At the bell there was less than a metre between Coe and Ovett, who was still boxed which they reached in about 54.7 seconds.
In my opinion, Ovett won the race as a result of what happened in the third 200m. Dave Warren took off increasing the pace significantly, followed by Kirov. Behind them the gaps started opening and Ovett got out of the box by the back straight as Kirov took the lead and pushed hard with Ovett following him closely. In the meantime, Coe fell asleep, got caught at the back of the field and had to run wide around the third bend. By the time he reached the back straight, he was over five metres down with respect to Ovett.
By the time they reached 600m, Ovett's margin over Coe had grown to about six metres and was clearly heading for victory. Ovett's finish was ferocious and his last lap of 50.7 seconds is the fastest last lap ever seen in an 800m. No wonder Coe couldn't get anywhere near him at the finish. Coe closed about three metres to finish about three metres down on Ovett but to have won Coe would have needed about 50.5 seconds on the second lap but did about 51.0 seconds.
You're right about the tactics and the fact Coe ran a dreadful race, with Ovett running a well judged one, but the stats you quote are a little out.
Ovett's last 400m was more like 50.6 ~ Warren went through in 54.55 with Ovett at least 0.2 behind, so his 400 split was closest to 54.8. Likewise, Coe was another 0.2 behind Ovett in around 55.0. Although they rounded up his finish time to 1:45.9, as was the practice at the time, Coe's actual finish time was 1:45.85, so his 2nd 400m was 50.8/50.9.
If you look at the race closely again, you'll notice that Ovett runs about an extra 1.5m on the 2nd bend (200-300) and possibly an extra 1m on the 3rd. For the vast majority of the race (and it's the bends that are crucial) he runs on the rails in lane 1. He also gets almost total drafting up to 700m, when he passes Kirov.
Now look at Coe. He runs practically the entire race in lane 2, including all 3 bends. In fact, I can't see him in lane 1 at any point during the race. Moreover, he gets practically no drafting for the entire 2 laps, because he is so wide.
If you run 1 entire bend on the line separating lanes 1 & 2, that constitutes an extra 2.89m. If you run 20cm into lane 2, that is an extra 3.5m. At times, Coe is wider than this. On the 2nd bend (200-300) he is wide in lane 2 and probably runs an extra 4m. On the 3rd bend he's wide in lane 2 for most of it and then ends up on the line with lane 1 on the backstraight. That's a conservative 3.5m extra. On the last bend he is passing guys 2 abreast in places, and that was at least another 3m extra.
Ovett ended up running c. 802.5m in 1:45.40. That's about 1:45.0 if he'd run exactly 800m.
Coe ran c. 810.5m in 1:45.85. That's more like 1:44.5 for 800m. What's more, his last 400 of 50.85 is worth 50.0 at least, had he ran on the inside of lane 1 as Ovett had. And his last 200m (24.9 to Ovett's 25.0) was equivalent to 24.5. That's half a second or about 4m quicker than Ovett.
It is misleading to suggest that Coe would have had to close in 50.5, and thus be quicker than Ovett over the last lap. Intrinsically, Coe was quite a bit faster than Ovett on the 2nd lap, it just doesn't seem that he was because he ran so wide. Based on the speed they actually ran that day, if the rest of the field miraculously disappeared from the track at the bell, Coe would have actually passed Ovett on the 2nd lap. But, that is not the nature of 800m running. Coe was a fool to run so wide the entire race. He might just as well have given Ovett an 8m+ head start. He managed to pull 5m back, but that extra 3m was too much.
As a footnote, as far as I know, Ovett's 50.6 is still the fastest last 400m in an Olympic final. However, if Coe had run a sensible race, his last 400m should have been as fast as 50.0. I can't think of any other athlete ever, who has managed to run a 50 flat last lap in what was essentially a 1:44.5 performance over 800m!
deano27671 Hi Deano,
Always great to hear your analysis and perspective. I think we’re both in agreement on most of the issues. It’s always good to continue the debate.
First thing I’d like to respond with, is you either imply that I think, or that you think Ovett ran a well judged race. I disagree either way. He ran a poor race as well. It’s just that he got extremely lucky that he was both on the inside of the field as they entered the second lap and that the gaps opened up for him at the right time, at the beginning of the back straight, when Warren had stretched the field and then when Kirov took off. Ovett was just lucky.
Coe, on the other hand, was extremely unlucky on the day with the way the race unfolded for him. But he really only had himself to blame. Much of it was psychological - Ovett was his only focus as rival - bad thinking as there are another 6 athletes in the race who were bound to get in his way, and the last time they met, in Prague, Ovett out-sprinted him in the final straight. Coe never wanted that to happen again so wanted to place himself in the striking zone, i.e. behind the race leader, when entering the home straight, and then to kick past. Having perfected his finishing kick, coupled with his world record sheer speed, he couldn’t believe there could be any other outcome than a victory for him whichever way an 800m race would unfold. What he hadn’t taken into account is that unpredictable races are, well, unpredictable.
Coe said his “big mistake was losing contact around the final bend”, i.e. he was not in the position of being in the strike zone. He was wrong. He makes up for this, when he says, “…just not being where the action was” - i.e. he is admitting he was not in the strike zone. He never got anywhere near to the strike zone. Ovett was in the strike zone. Coe was 6 or 7 metres adrift of it all the way from 500m - 700m. I think he was over simplifying in the interview so that ordinary people could understand.
Coe’s fundamental winning tactic, that of running like a club runner, blasting it out from gun to tape, as he did in 1978, he surrendered in favour of a sprinter’s tactic, which, in this case, was a poor decision in hindsight. In other words, Coe chose his poor luck.
Coe’s second psychological weakness was centered around his physical size - being only 5’9 ½” and only 9 ½ stone, taking a slight knock from any of those much bigger athletes, would easily have sent him sprawling to the ground. He was well aware of what had happened to Jim Ryun in 1972. The only way to ensure that wouldn’t happen to him was to run clear at the front, or to run on the outside of the pack. The pack, mostly consisting of much weaker runners anyway, would be no problem for him to get round and clear with his superior times. In most races, this worked for him so he became accustomed to doing it. Coe would have benefited from watching El Guerrouj, if their running eras were reversed, to see how much advantage you gain when you run on the inside of lane 1 and how much you lose when you don’t. Coe was no fool and should have known this. He was a total fool for not deploying it. You can see this even in his 1:44.26 in Brussels in 1978 when he is completely clear of every other athlete yet still runs wide.
Deano, you constantly refer to Coe running wide and the extra distance he is covering as a result. Factually, in some ways, you are right. In other ways, though, you make it sound like a handicapped race. It was not. If Coe chose to run most of the race in lane two, that doesn’t mean Ovett ran 800m and Coe ran 810m, and therefore Coe won. They both ran 800m. How they positioned themselves on the track was entirely their choice.
Coe believed he was safer running wide and keeping clear of trouble, he often said this, and he was right, most of the time. And he was right this time too. At the expense of losing the race. Coe believed he could out-sprint any other athlete in the field. And he was “probably” right, even in this case. But he wasted too much energy running the extra distance as a result of running wide, as you say. But, “in practice”, he was out-run by Ovett who had a clearer run for more of the second lap than Coe did, notably down the back straight, and he was able to leave more of his performance on the track than Coe was able to. And that’s what won him the race.
I’m glad we agree on their split times to within a tenth of a second or so.
Now onto details!
Your analysis is full of hypotheticals. If Coe did this, Ovett did that. It’s nice to speculate and theorise, as I have done a little, above, but it is better to analyse what actually happened. So firstly, let’s dispel the notion of drafting. On this day it was scorching hot, there was absolutely no wind and there was low atmospheric pressure. No one gained nor lost anything as a result of potential drafting. You might as well have run at the front of the field. Ovett gained nothing from drafting. Coe lost nothing from not gaining a potential drafting advantage had he been running directly behind another athlete.
Secondly, they were all in the same race, so they all ran 800m. Not 802.5m for Ovett , or 810.5m for Coe. The rules allow them to take the shortest possible route around the track. They all abide by the same rules. Where they choose to put their feet is their choice.
Thirdly, and I’m happy to go with your numbers, with Ovett about a metre up on Coe at the bell, so about 0.15 seconds between them, Ovett ran 50.6 seconds for the second lap, increasing his winning margin to 3 metres at the finish, which we can clearly see. Coe ran 50.8 - 50.9 seconds. So Ovett ran the faster second lap. That Coe closed in on Ovett in the last 100m is neither here nor there, as all that matters is who won the race. For all we know, Ovett was so confident that he had it won 30m out that he eased up slightly. We don’t know, nor does it matter.
What we agree on, is that that final lap was the fastest we have ever seen, despite it being scrappy and ugly, 50.6 / 50.7 is a 2nd lap time that no athlete, not even Coe, or Rudisha, has come anywhere near to matching. That’s a mark of how great Ovett’s performance was on that day.
There is a big difference between what someone is capable of and what they actually achieve. Coe was capable of a faster second lap but never achieved it. Coe was also capable of winning the Olympic 800m but never actually achieved that either. You say Coe was intrinsically “quite a bit faster” than Ovett. How do you know? Where is your proof? After all, Ovett in this video proved that he was conclusively quite a bit faster than Coe, by both winning the race and running the fastest ever second lap! You also say “if the rest of the field miraculously disappeared from the track at the bell Coe would have passed Ovett on the 2nd lap.” No, he wouldn’t. Because Coe would have been a metre down and a metre wide of Ovett’s position, Ovett would have run 50.6 or even faster, as in the actual race Ovett had to run around Warren and Kirov who both slowed him down, and Coe would have had to run under 50 seconds to catch him, and Coe’s best for a second lap was probably this one at 50.8. So the outcome would not have been any different. The only way Coe could have won this race was to have put a lot more into his first lap. If he had taken off at 300m, when he was actually ahead of Ovett and Ovett was boxed at that time, Coe could have been 3 or 4 metres clear at the bell and would have won easily with a 51.4 or 51.5 seconds final lap with the finishing time being around 1:44.0.
gakaface "For all we know, Ovett was so confident that he had it won 30m out that he eased up slightly. We don’t know, nor does it matter." Ovett said that he "left a little [in hand/in the tank]" towards the end in case anyone came at him. And I agree that Ovett could have run the last lap quicker, certainly under 50sec if he had had a clear run from the bell and was time-trialing it, which he wasn't.
Everyone says that it was a lack of experience that cost Coe the race. They should be saying that it was a lack of experience that cost him giving himself a better chance, with Ovett in the race there was never a guarantee that he'd win even if he ran tactically well. Moreover, I actually believe that it was experience that sold him out - the experience of front running in 1978. I reckon he had that in the back of his mind, that he got stuffed by leading out. In reality, he should have gone to the front and just controlled the race, which he could have done off a nippy 51, rather than the sub-50 in Oslo.
Coe ran a good 8m further in that final than Ovett. Coe's 400 ability was a good second better than Steve's at this point in their careers. It was Coe's race to lose and that is exactly what he did. For whatever reason he froze and ran dreadfully. Ovett ran a smart race and deserved to win in the circumstances, but his finish was not as fast as Coe's taking the extra distance into consideration. Ovett's last 200 was 25.0 on the rails, Coe's was 24.9 in lane 2. That's 3m further in distance and about 0.5 in time. Coe's speed around the last curve was c. 11.8 for 100m.
deano27671 Thanks for the great stats, but do understand that Ovett's and Coe's last 200m were markedly different not just because of any extra distance Coe ran, but because Coe was eyeballs out for most of it, whilst Ovett didn't start his kick until approx 80m out, meaning he could have potentially ran a much quicker last 200m. Something you constantly neglect. And if you want to talk about how much faster Coe would have ran without extra distance, don't forget that Ovett's bumping and barging was time and energy consuming.
Ovett simply scholled Coe.
Friendly rivalry between Coe and Ovett.
is it me, or does the 1960s and 1970s footage look better than the 1980s to 2000s?..what gives?..the resolution of the times made images pretty crystal clear..
It might be that the older stuff generally comes from original footage from various media sources and therefore well maintained and in good condition,whereas the 70's through to the early '90's is largely from home recordings on VHS tapes which let's be fair , look a bit crap in these HD digital age days? Not much of a theory,but it's the only one I've got!
That split was a high school time
Remember, the US 800 meter team may have had something to say about this end result. May have been same outcome, but much more interesting. Don Paige & James Robinson were likely at or near their prime for these Olympics, but for the boycott.
Fair point...one assumes Paige(or Boit,if he'd been there)wouldn't have let the first lap dawdle along at that pace,which I think,ironically,would have suited Coe. Without Walker,Wessinhage,Scott,etc,I actually think the potential 1500m final suffered even more than the 800m.
Im from Budapest and my english is not best Sebastian Coe i saw in Hungary Népstadion at Nagydíj the stadion was full and the race was similar interesting as this.
Your English is a bit better than my Hungarian.
Ovett lacked the staying power to stay in peak form through 6 races to the 1500 m final otherwise he would have outkicked Coe for the double.
hey gakaface, I should have said that I found your analysis very interesting and I appreciate the detailed responses. Sorry if that didn't come across. We'll just have to disagree on a couple of issues. 😀
+deano27671 Hi Deano,
I'm re-visiting this video for the first time in ages and didn't realise there were all these comments here! It's all been a good read!
I do think Ovett was easily capable of a sub 1:42 800m. It's simply that he never specifically trained for it nor was he motivated to chase world records until Coe's feats of 1979 undermined his credibility. In 1980, even though he won the 800m, he still had not specifically trained for 800m. It was his bonus event. Imagine if he had?
If you watch Ovett's 1977 Helsinki European Cup 1500m last lap, he runs the last lap in 52 seconds flat with most of it out in lane 2. If Ovett had specifically trained for it, the 800m record would have been within his capability in the 1978 season. Maybe not 1:41 but certainly breaking 1:43.
Having watched this final again this evening, I'm wondering if the gaps between Coe and Ovett were a little smaller than my estimate in my previous posts. I don't think there is at any point in the race where the gap is greater than five metres, that largest point being with 200m to go. Therefore Ovett stretched his lead at the bell from one metre to five metres over the third 200m, and Coe clawed back two metres in the last 200m, mainly in the last 30 metres, finishing a clear three metres down. The reason for this is that Ovett had the race won and eased off whereas Coe was still having to drive really hard to get past Kirov, hence making up two metres in the last thirty.
Coe was therefore about four metres adrift of being in the strike zone with 200m to go, not six metres.
But Ovett ran maybe 0.5 -1m extra on the second lap. Coe ran both last bends in lane 2. If you run 1 bend on the line between lanes 1 & 2, it's an extra 2.89m. Coe easily ran 6m+ on the second lap. He ran say 406.5m in 50.7, which is = to 49.8 for 400m. Ovett ran his 2nd 400m in 50.5, worth maybe 50.4 with no extra distance.
Ovett went through 400m in c.54.9 and 600m in 1:20.4, so that was a 25.5 200m split. At the bell Coe was 1.5m behind in 55.1and went through 600m in 1:20.9, so a 25.8 stretch. At 600m he was 4m behind Ovett. On the face of it Ovett has pulled an extra 2.5m away from Coe over that 200m stretch. BUT, Coe ran at least 3m extra on that 3rd bend, meaning he ran 203m+ in 25.8, which works out at 25.4 for 200m. Therefore he was actually running marginally quicker than Ovett for that stretch, but didn't make up any ground, because he ran 3m+ further than Ovett.
Ovett's last 200m was 25.0, possibly running an extra half metre at beginning of straight to pass Kirov, making it worth 24.9. Coe, on the other hand ran 24.9 and again ran 3m + on last bend in lane 2. This means he actually ran the equivalent of a 24.5 last 200m had he been able to run on the rails in lane 1 like Ovett did.The fact Coe's last 100m was 12.6, means he was running at 11.9 100m speed around the last bend!
Coe also ran very wide in lane 2 on the 2nd bend (200-300m), at least 4m. Therefore a conservative estimate for Coe, was that he ran 810m in that final. Of course, that was his own stupid fault, and Ovett ran the better race and did all that was required of him to win. But on close analysis, this was actually one of the best running performances (pure speed) of Coe's career. Taking into consideration the extra 10m+ he ran, his 1:45.85 becomes a 1:44.5, with a 2nd 400m of 49.8 and a last 200m of 24.5! There has never been an 800m in under 1:45 in which the athlete, even taking into consideration extra distance run, has run a 2nd lap in under 50sec.
@@deano27671 all this is irrelevant, coe got hammered, a combination of inexperience and complacency.
I don't think Ovett gets enough credit for winning the race though. Going into an 800m without good tactics is like going in with inadequate speed. Even though Ovett broke a few rules with barging he must have used up a lot of energy with that but still pulled off one of the best ever 2nd laps in a big 800m. Its really hard to speed up by that much on the 2nd lap, I'm sure Deano has the splits. In a way this race was more like a 1500m and Coe did get his gold in the 800m -...
I only wanted to see the final, not all the qualifiers
The 1980 Olympics were almost a side show. All anyone was interested in for the whole games was Ovett v Coe and who was better/faster. Never Will another Olympic Games be so dominated by two athletes.
Would have been interesting to see how close Ovett would have been to Coe in one Coe's world record races . I reckon with drafting only tenths in it judging by this second lap speed
Ovett was surely capable of 1m42
Yes, Ovett was easily capable of 1:42, and 1:41 for 800m. But he was only really interested in racing and winning. Whilst he did achieve six world records during his career, he didn't attack them with any serious intent, with the possible exception of his 3:30.77 1500m. He was easily capable of 3:28 for 1500m, as was Coe and Cram.
gakaface I'm sorry, but Ovett certainly was not capable of 1:41 'easily'. He is on record as saying that he couldn't have run 800 as fast as Coe. You have to remember that Coe ran a 45.5 relay leg in 79 and a 45.6 from a stumbling start in 81, 90 mins after front running a 1:44.06. Ovett's 400pb was 47.5, and his fastest ever relay leg was 46.8 in 1979. There was at least 1.3 sec between them over 400, and as you suggest, little between them at 1500. I think Ovett could have broken Juantorena's WR of 1:43.44 in 78 or 79 (pre Coe's 1:42.33 in Oslo) and had he had a few cracks at it, maybe 1:42.7 - 1:43.0, no faster. Coe should have run more like 1:41.2.
deano27671 Yes, he was capable of sub 1:42. But as I said, he was never interested in chasing records; that change of mindset only happened for him in late 1979 when he found himself losing the psychological war to Coe and he needed to prove his credibility to the public. However, he only chased the 1,500m and the mile. He was not race focussed for 800m. Had he trained and raced for 800m in 1979, which was his peak year, at least we agree on this, he could have reached 1:42 easily.
Just as I said in another post I made here a short time ago, what athletes are capable of and what they actually achieve can be two completely different things. Just as Coe was capable of running a sub 50 second second lap for 800m, but never did so, or running sub 1:41 but never did so, or running 3:28 for 1500m but never did so, so too was Ovett capable of running sub 1:42 but never did so. Not because he wasn’t capable but because he never had the motivation or inclination. He was a racer. Coe and Ovett were equally matched, in every way, in terms of their track performances. Credit goes to both of them equally for the magnificent track era they gave us.
We should also remember Cram, Elliott and Moorcroft for all their incredible achievements at the same time.
gakaface Oh yes, three world record holders.
Ah, Yes, the heyday of British middle distance racing xD
Glad to see our allies at the 80 games...
How much training and effort did Ovett out into the 800? It was Coe's specialty. Overtt was more 1000-1500-1 mile
OVETT was European junior 800 champ 1973 !!!! Finished 2nd in the European 800 m 1974,,, English schools 400m champ 1971? 72 ?/ Ran47,5 for400 minutes 1974 !!!!!!! When coe wasn't even running 1:54, back in 1974 (he was injured the whole year) OVETT ⭐ was running 1:45,s !!!!!!! OVETT started as an 800 runner primarily and moved up distance to gain more strength so that when this race came along he was more than ready,,, waves to the crows equalling sebs world record for 1500 !!!!! Seb would have been terrified and in his first Olympics with all the pressures of the world of being the out and out favourite!!!!! Pressure and the slipped disc he had all these things made him go into a trance and only woke up with 200 to go !!! COE was still fighting of the French man marajo round the bend and only got into 2nd in the last 30 yards? Coe was not moving the same as he was the year before especially cos of the back injuries and other factors like running in the outside lanes and chasing a guy running the 2nd fastest lap in international history (50*6) A FANTASTIC time which still lasts today! 38 years later!!!!! It says something for seb to go from 5th to 2nd in the last 150 metres !!!!!! A fantastic run !!!!! And then to come back against OVETTS 45th unbelievable unbeaten run 🇧🇩
Sorry ,had to mess up last write up and who,s flag is that ???? Seb did the impossible coming back and getting 2nd alot of people would,ve given up !!! Dave wottle got away with it in 1972 800 but he didn't have Steve ovett running a 59*6 last lap in front of him !!!!!
@@jeremyhomewood9573 I mean 50'6 LAST LAP +!!!!! INCREDIBLE !!!!!
And of course, Seb wins the 1500m.
My mate Kirk Dumpleton used to beat ovett and coe for fun then got a knee injury when he was 18..yes a name to never forget agreed
Yeah well my mate was called 'Wilson' and was nic- named " the tough of the track".He always wore black and trained alone in the mountains.Seb and Steve ?He would have beaten them in a race in the morning ,then still trained in the afternoon.!!!!
@@djangorheinhardt the tough of the track was Alf Tupper, he trained on fish and chips and worked full time.
Yes you are right.Wilson was the mystery man who lived in hills and trained on raw food s and only came down to win then went back to the hills.( I think)!
Seb Coe versus Steve Ovett interesting rivalry.
Borg versus McEnroe at the same time too.
First heat, Ovett's, Pickering says Juantorena was on the list of starters for the 800m but chose to run the 400m instead.
Second interesting thing about this heat, is Sriram Singh, the athlete that plagued Juantorena in the 1976 final!
Heats are always interesting in hindsight!
Are you American?
I wanted to see Juantorena vs Ovett or Coe. What a race that would be.
Unfortunately Juantorena was probably past his best at 800m by 1980 and chose just to defend his 400m title (though he did post a good 800m time as late as 1983) and is unlikely to have challenged Ovett and Coe. Though I would have loved to have seen the Juantorena of 1976-77 running against them.
With hindsight it was good that Ovett won something against Coe. Coe was naive in this race and Ovett took his opportunity well. 8 out of 10 Coe would have won that, but even the best make mistakes. Coe then went on to dominate middle distance running for years and who knows despite terrible injuries, might have won 3 Golds in a row @ Olympic 1500 if selected in 1988. A golden era indeed for UK middle distance running with 3 or 4 others also involved.
Not too sure...Coe didn't seem to make up any ground on the home straight; puzzle is, why Ovett lost confifence before the 1500m
How do u lose when loaded up on blood dope?
@@johnrogan9420 CUNT WANKA !!!!;;
@@archiewoosung5062 ovett never lost confidence before the 1500m. I think he suffered a physical and emotional collapse after winning the 800m. He had achieved the ultimate he had become an Olympic champion and couldn't get himself in the zone again. The photo of coe crossing the line arms spread eyes agog to me is telling. Not just because of coes relief but look at the expression on ovett's face it reads thank goodness that's over now I can go home. If coe had won the 800m somehow I'm certain ovett would of won the 1500m. Its worth noting also that after Moscow coe was beaten in a 800m race by the American Don paige probably because he had also had an emotional collapse after his win similar to ovett's. Ovett went on to break the world record 4 weeks later. Had they raced 1 week after Moscow at 1500m I would of backed ovett to win the psychological pendulum was in his court.
good that ovett won something against coe-you what? look at the head to head ovett2-coe1 in the races that you can really count(early cross country race doesnt really/800 and 1500 1984 not really as ovett was v v ill and shouldnt have really ran either,1989 when both were grandads)
Ovet was exhausted in the race of 1500m.Was it next?
No the 50 km walk was next,,,,,, for fuck sake !!!!!!
Eh? He partied a little hard and was a bit complacent in 1980 1500m having won 800m. In 1984 he had respiratory problems in LA
Great seeing all the heats and their journeys to the final. Coe looked so easy in the heats and really ballsed it up in the final. You can't give Ovett such a lead, and expect to close a gap running around traffic in a 1:45 race! Coe should have won this. Im sure Coe would have preferred to win this one and Ovett the 1500.
Thanks for your responses. I think a lot of what you have said is very similar to what I have said! On a couple of points I disagree totally.
Yes, Ovett ran a better race, and I don't think there was much luck involved. Coe ran a poorly judged race which I agree was of his own doing. I do think he he could have won that race whatever the pace, but he lost touch on the 3rd bend, just as the pace started to hot up. He failed to make a move at the beginning of the back straight, and by the time he did, at about 220m, it was too late.
Everyone benefits from drafting behind another runner, regardless of the weather. Of course it is more advantageous in windy weather, but an athlete will gain about 0.7 per 400m through drafting as opposed to front running, even on an indoor track. There is still air resistance, and having someone 2m in front lessens that effect.
Yes, Ovett's last lap split time is faster than Coe's, but that certainly does not mean he was travelling g faster over that 2nd lap. Again, you are right, Coe chose (badly) to run the extra distance, but that is exactly the point I'm making. He ran a bad tactical race. He could have got away with it if Ovett wasn't there, but you can't do it so badly if someone as good as Ovett is there. I stand by exactly what I said. Coe covered at least 407m on the 2nd lap, so his actual average speed on that 2nd lap was faster than Ovett's.
I cannot follow what you have written about if the rest of the field disappeared at the bell!? Ovett ran no more than 1.5m extra to pass Warren and Kirov. So take that away (as he wouldn't have to run wide if the field disappeared at the bell!) and he could have run the 2nd lap in 50.4 based on the actual speed and split he actually ran. Coe ran a 50.8 running entire lap in lane 2. If the field had disappeared at the bell then Coe could have chased Ovett and run the same speed on the inside of lane 1 to do so. Based on his actual speed shown, his 2nd lap would have been a conservative 50.0. So if he was only 1m behind Ovett at the bell, although I'd say it was more like 2m, the 0.4 faster would have got him past Ovett. Of course this IS HYPOTHETICAL. Ovett won and that's that, but it is wrong to state that Ovett was 'finishing faster' on the second lap. Coe closed on Ovett from 300 out, despite running a lot further. Coe's last 200 and 100 were also slightly faster.
I also think you'll be hard pushed to find anyone who believes Ovett was capable of 1:41 at any time in his career. The idea that he couldn't be bothered is fanciful. If he felt he could then he surely would have had a go at setting a WR at that distance before 81, when the WR was still 1:42.3!? There is enough evidence to back up this claim. Ovett never showed anything better than 47 speed for 400m. He only ever broke 47 once in a relay leg in 79, when he ran 46.8. That in itself is worth c. 47.5 in an open 400 from a stationary start. In comparison Coe ran many sub 47 relays and his quickest were 45.5 and 45.6. That was considerably faster than Ovett. Cruz, who himself was a 1:41.7 performer, had a best open 400 time of 46.0. That's 1.5 better than Ovett. There is no way Ovett could match Cruz over 2 laps. Steve was capable of the sort of time Cram ran, 1:42.8 .
Yes but what if he never peaked for a 400.
Ovett had the greater range of ability coe was an 800 and 1500 specialist. 800m being his best distance. Ovett if he applied himself could of run as fast as coe at 800 but he was never motivated that way. He could of run world record for 5000 as well. Had coe not been around I could easily believe ovett would never have made any of the contrived record attempts he did. My own feeling is that ovett at his best was the better miler and would of beaten coe at least 2 times out of 3 had they raced each other 12 times between 79 and 81.
@@davidbaldwin133 Ovett is on record as saying that, "Coe was the greatest middle distance runner Britain has ever produced," and that, "He (Coe) was so quick (when talking about the 800m), and I knew I wasn't that quick". Ovett's 400m speed (46.8 fastest relay leg) was not as good as Coe's (45.5 relay) in their best years. Ovett could defiinitely have run faster than his 1:44.09 pb, but he was certainly not capable of 1:41! Coe managed that while simultaneously being capable of a 3:47 mile. I don't think Ovett believed he was capable of beating Coe between 79 and 81, otherwise he would have accepted his invitation to race Coe in the 79 Dream Mile, would have let Coe run in the 81 Oslo Dream mile (Coe asked to be in the race but was blocked by Ovett's agent, Andy Norman) and would have turned up for the Brussels Golden Mile later that same summer, a race for which both men were down to run from the very beginning of the season. Those are not the actions of someone who felt confident beating Coe 2 out of 3 times.
@@deano27671 so you don't think ovett believed he was capable of beating coe between 79 and 81. What nonsense, he whipped coe in the 800 Olympic final.
@@elizabethtanner9050 never said that. Ovett knew he wasn't as fast as Coe over 800m, but then most championship races were slow and tactical, as in Moscow. I'm sure Ovett went into the 800m final believeing he had a good chance, unless Coe decided to run it from the front. Ovett proved the better tactician and used his experience to claim an unexpected win. Ovett then said he had a 90% chance of winning the 1500m, but was beaten. By 81, Coe had further improved, whereas I think Ovett had plateaued. Ovett's behaviour in avoiding Coe in 81, based on the words of Steve's 'best man' and agent, suggests that he lacked confidence or was concerned he might be beaten by Coe.
Get your fresh o2 tanks...
it did annoy me at the time that steve ovett was always portayed by the media as the bad guy[ as he was always friendlier to me as a person[ with time i love seb as well[ both great athletes[ think coe was more talented overall
Tim Robinson "coe was more talented overall". Depends upon how you look at it. Ovett: Olympic 800m champion and 2 mile world record holder, you could argue that he had a greater range.
Coe trained in a more scientific way. Ovetts training was more random. That would have made a difference. Ovett admitted that years later. Coe was criticised at the time. Ovett might had got an extra 2 or 3 world records if he'd trained better. Coe may have been more talented, but they were very different kinds of runners. Ovett was Strength based, Coe was Speed based more. Coe raced more rarely. Ovett raced much more frequently.
Tim Robinson
b
@@francishooton3933 He probably trained on fish and chips like Alf Tupper.
Paul Gee,but what about the mysterious Wilson who came down the mountain to beat everyone.In his black vest he would have beaten Ovett and Coe in two different races ,on the same morning,then disappeared into the mountains again.Is Wilson still up there I wonder.BTW,he would have beaten Alf Tupper,the tough of the track,in the afternoon,as well.
Were these two athletes clean? or did they use Salazar's method?
You tell us!
I don't know that is why I'm asking you ????????
it is well known most athletes do it at this high level of competition
they are only few exceptions.
For instance Paula Radcliffe is hypocrite when she say she was clean.
I'm not quiet sure about Mr Sebastian Coe, but regardless
they were exceptional runners (Coe, Ovett, Cramp)
what wonderful races!
@@Hever73 cramp??? HAH !!!! I LIKE IT!!!!!! CLASSIC !!!!!!
Get stuffed
@@Hever73 they both had a high pedigree. Ovett was a natural talent and didn't really train that hard , whereas Coe was a manufactured runner.
For the time Coes training was on the cutting edge. There is an interesting article on Coe's record which shows the Science behind it.
www.serpentine.org.uk/pages/advice_frank13.html
er where was coe then
Ovett pushing another runner. If you did that today what would happen?
You can punch another runner today and nothing happens (witness the Doha world championships just finished)
@@nickcockayne7880 Exactly what part of the championships?
Not many dentists in England
Ah you mean when men were men
Ahh the Afghanistan games...
wowwwwwwwwwww abie abta finishing ktneks nieruka niceee
Coe got beaten by Ovett end of :)
Am I seeing this correctly gakaface that Ovett shoves 2 guys into outer lanes on the opening back stretch? Should have been a DQ!
Herbert Plummer With respect your looking at it from 2015 perspective. Back then it was physical at times. No ones race was altered much...I think your going over the top.
A Coe lover no doubt.
A DQ by today's standards perhaps, but in those days it was all part of middle distance racing.
Amongst the all-time greats, Coe was capable of some really poor racing decision-making. Cartoonish.
Coe...greatest blood doped runner ever!!!
Evidence please!
Beat it, troll.
@@randyevermore9323 5 foot 9i inch running troll...good description of blood doper Coe...the English "Lance Armstrong".
@@johnrogan9420 So what is it, troll? Blood doping or EPO? In a separate comment, you claimed Coe was on EPO. But as I pointed out, rEPO didn't even exist when Coe set his records. So now you've switched to accusing him of blood doping. Go find yourself a life, trucker man.
@@randyevermore9323 appreciate your loyalty to Seb but the man was a cheater...ran with almost pure oxygen in his blood...never seemed to suffer from oxygen debt no matter how far or fast he ran...as I mentioned prior...the Lance Armstrong of track!
I feel like Coe was the faster runner but just never quite got his positioning right in this race.
You cannot be faster than the winner if you were second.
@@voicezful what if your best times over the distance are better? Then you're faster just not on that day. Justin Gatlin has beaten Usain Bolt in a race before, is Justin Gatlin faster than Usain Bolt?
Wonder if he put springs in his spikes too...what a cheater...hardly breathing at all
...ridiculously easy...how true!
Ovett was a great athlete, but if you look the semi and the beginning of final, Ovett was rough with his opponents. In my opinion, he should have been disqualified.
Definitely!
He played by the rules
64fairlane359 - bullshit
56.7 first 400 meters
..slow!
Great race by Ovett but he has since conceded that Coe was the better athlete Ovett was a true street athlete who viewed running as a contact sport whereas Coe was more of a purist.
i have never seen a runner push another runner from behind. why did he not get disqualified ?
What a great remark by the Newspaperman---like grabbing hold of a Turd''. and spot on too. A shameful display of bad, none--sportsmanship, a spoilt child , who never really improved in later years, as a tory MP, either
Cut him some slack... he would've been distraught & emotionally devastated.
Ovett was a nasty runner
Typical tory boy reaction from Coe. Came over as spiteful
Coe...that blood doping works wonders...full oxygen the entire way!
Went badly wrong for him in Olympic trials of 1988!
Anyone else would have been dq'd the way Ovett was pushing.
9:34 - I think if he did that today he would have been disqualified - Ovett simply pushed both guys in front of him, to let himself through. :o/
Ovett ...barging...disqualified.
Ovett was not good at racing, always in the wrong place at the wrong time, just pushed his way out of trouble or should I say others out of the way. He should have been disqualified a number of times.
i never realized what a dirty racer ovett was. that result should not have stood.
Ovett looke as if he was an arrogant person
Absolutely too many runners admitted to the Olympics...qualifying standards must be raised drastically..
Этого Оветта надо было дисквалифицировать!
Оба англичанина - средних способностей.
А вот кто действительно бриллиант - это Величайший Гордон Пири!
You can get medication for delusion these days. Ovett and Coe were the best ever and I'm Irish.