Finally someone shows what is really needed. GREAT video. We've gone 3 summers around the US with a propane stove, 2 wet cel Gp31 batteries, 200 w solar, Renogy DCC50s (combination b2b MPPT controller), Isotherm 130 AC/DC Refrigerator with Freezer, 200W cigarette lighter inverter, and a 3g hot water tank with 12V element run the last hour of driving each day. IF we decide we need a toaster or coffee maker we'll add a 2000W Renogy inverter for $280.00. It's not for everyone but if your budget is tight electrics is where to save.
Thanks Nick, I’m very new to this but am following your advice building my very simple camper van 410w setup, see how I go 😂 really appreciate the quality advice.
This was great, I'll be moving onto a narrow boat soon and have to deal with this exact sort of set-up. The problem narrow boats have is finding enough clear space on the roof to fit the amount of panels you would like.
@6:49 quick correction, 10 gauge is 6mm2 not 4, 4mm2 is 12 gauge, and since most PV's come with 12AWG (4mm2) with only 3-5 feet of cable, your up-to branches will be OK, but after the branch connectors you need the heavier gauge, perhaps this is what you were meaning to say, also you're paralleling, where are the individual in-line fuses? (Some countries mandate in-line fuses when paralleling - Australia does, fused internally accessible, before combined - when paralleling, used with fuse block method like you show on the battery line does away with branch connectors, simpler too IMHO), I'd also be using another breaker on the MPPT battery out, if for nothing more than use as an isolator, and also a breaker between battery and inverter. pro tip: when buying MC4's make sure they are the right sizing, average off the shelf are for 12awg/4mm2, you need to make sure the type you buy (using this diagram) is for 10awg/6mm2, or greater if your wire size is bigger, but 10mm2 (8awg) is the biggest you can get in an MC4, also important to note the largest cable dia on all terminals of things like breakers, MPPT, etc, as some MPPTs screw terminals are ridiculously small Last tip, for wire size, add up all your currents, protection should be 25% greater (as you make mention of calling the safety factor) but what it is also recommended is, the wire size should be 50% greater, eg: 100A = 125A breaker/fuse and 150A capable wire, this way there is no question of electrical wiring being cause for your insurance company denying you payment should your camper/RV/off grid or boat, burn to the ground.
A few points. The use of MRBF fuse at the battery is important. Under fault conditions a lithium battery can produce over 7000 amps. Fuses have a limit on how much fault current they can withstand. MRBF can withstand 10000 amps in a 12v system . Alternatives are classT, HRC, and BS88 fuses. No neutral bond condition or use of RCD protection was discussed with regard to the inverter. Whilst resionably save if a single appliance is directly pluged into the inverter, and distributed AC system with multiple outputs, needs RCD protection. Any DC or AC system in a RV needs a reference point, the metal body, chassis or frame. Solar panels in series handle shade better than expected due to bypass diodes . Having 100 watt panels, all In parallel, will perform badly in lowlight conditiond. Having two in series connected in parallel to the other two is series will give a little more power early/late in the day and low light conditions. There is also a lower volt drop due to lower current and easier interconnections. Well presented video, perhaps using all metric sizes and refering to a conversion chart, would make a clearer presentation.
1. I made a video about fuse types. 2. I made a video about ground, neutral bond and the use of a GFCI. 3. thats true. 4. i try my best to include metric sizes where i can. Thank for your feedback, i appreciate it.
The dc breaker does not make the panels safe. They only disconnect the solar from the system (like a switch). You can add fuses in a parallel solar panel system (use MC-4 fuses) for every positive. Checkout my video about grounding as well.
Hello just bought your book haven't started reading yet but my question is can you plug that 14.6 v/ 20 amp lithium charger straight into the ac side of a regular gas generator to charge.
A good design and no criticism intended. But, can I add that in a camping situation though sometimes you don't get the choice to park up where sun is optimal and all those fixed solar panels even when wired in parallel can be rendered useless if you're under trees. I can't speak for other countries typically, but, In Australian bushland that's often a problem when camping. It can be solved by incorporating either a second solar controller to enable 'additional' use of portable solar panels or blankets, Or instead a one or the other two source (position 1 or 2) switch leading to a separate connection socket (Anderson 50A) for portable panels. That way you can switch out the fixed useless shaded panels and still use the existing solar controller for portable panels you can locate out in the sun. Of course it adds to cost but the frustration of getting no sun on your fixed panels will eventually catch you out and make you wish that you had that secondary solar input.
Great observation. We talked about having portable solar panels, but he didn't like to carry and set them up them all the time. If i were to make a campervan then i would have 200W of portable solar, for the reasons you just mentioned. Thanks for the great addition.
Good stuff 12v is safer than 48v ime getting 2 x 300ah eve .05 discharge rate, the prices are dropping also new tech storage batteries are on the way soon
Hi, is it not cheaper and easier to buy an Ecoflow solar generator for example? And now with the alternator charger looks like the way to go, any thoughs on this? Thanks and greeting.
Thanks so much for all this great information. I have a question regarding the shore powered battery charger. Is it safe to have a system where the 3 methods of charging are basically unregulated by a central source. Using a DC/DC charger with MPPT would assure a seamless use of 2 charging inputs. Then using a inverter/charger would satisfy the shore power scenario. Or you could use a separate inverter and ad a stand alone battery charger as you have, but with a disconnect to control the power going to the battery.
I don't understand the question very well. You can have multiple charging sources charging the same battery bank. As long as the max charging current of the battery is not reached. You can have everything separate or use an all in one inverter.
This was a very good explanation. So now I subscribe to your channel in the future :-). I also have a question: I have a plant with 1 pc. 360W solar panel and 2 pcs. 290 AGM 12V batteries with a 40A charge controller. For this I want to connect to use a 12V to 220V inverter. I have an inverter of 1500W/3000W and one of 1000W/2000W and am wondering which of them I can use. My wish was to be able to use a 1200W coffee maker. But after your explanations, I'm not sure if it works on this plant. Or what do you think I can do?
hello,i got two 100 watt pannels on roof,30 amp dc to dc charger one deep cycle battery,a fuse pannel,good wire.how would i set this up with small battery charger for running shore power?oh and have two breaker fuses for system.
Thank you much for all this information 🙏…I have Q ….I have tractor trailer I need to do the same system all I care about I need Air conditioning system last me for 10 hours..
4 gauge handles how many amps? 12:09 I heard 450 amps, which might be for 4/0 (four-ought) But the fusing and wiring sizing is correct, so I assume I didn't hear correctly (150A) yeah, listening again, it is just my old ears. thanks for the video!
@@cleversolarpower Got me to pay attention - and yes that is an important point! Insulation rating matters. Some people get hung up on building wiring, in the U.S. that is often type THHN and they use National Electrical Code ampacity charts. It is also useful to evaluate the The American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) for vehicle applications. IF the distance is short & in free air, you might be able to push that to 160 amperes. I like your practical approach in making adjustments to find a real, available fuse! Well done, thanks.
Recharge from panels 1.5 days ??? I was also in the situation to choose, I would have liked this video material. but I was too lazy. I chose an Eco Flow Staion Delta 2 and 400w panels from the same company.
Yes, you would need 1.5 days of sunshine (on average) to recharge the battery (12V 200Ah). You can check for your location on a website called pvwatts.
Why not have a convenient on/off switch for the inverter? Or also an in-line inverter timer with its own on/off switch so that the refrigerator is only turned on every 15-20 minutes? Any other devices (ex: water heater) you turn on before use (shower). I don't see why there is any need to waste electricity through the inverter to a significant degree especially when on batteries.
The inverter has an off-switch and a remote off-switch. I didn't draw it in the diagram. You should not use an on-off switch for the fridge as that will likely interrupt the working of the fridge. You can use an energy efficient inverter like the victron phoenix lineup.
Lithium batteries only recently have come down in cost. But why not use 24 or even 48V ? The microwave will kill the 12V battery. Lights can be switched in series.
Good question. Because a DC to DC charger is most available in 12V variants. 24V is also available but then you need a converter for your 12V appliances. So it's a balance between the two. 48V DC to DC chargers are quite expensive.
Use 48v for larger systems which will reduce wire costs substantially, and it's safer to deal with. Just 2 of the several reasons to not use 12v for larger systems.
@@cleversolarpower Many ways to skin a cat: 800V cars sometimes split batteries and put 2 in parallel to charge faster on 400V charger. I would use 2 100AH 12V batteries and a few good contactors to series them when using the microwave on a 24V inverter. 2 small isolated output chargers to keep the batteries topped up when arriving on a non powered campground.
@@cleversolarpower On top of the additional costs that you pointed out there's also a problem with deploying enough solar panels in some camping situations, or on the vehicle itself they're fitted to, to get open circuit voltage high enough to charge a 48v system. It then also leads back to series connections of panels and the associated shading problems. In the case of portable panels it makes it even more complex and expensive and creates a rather large footprint of multiple panels connected in series on the ground that all have to be orientated exactly the same to the sun. It can be royal a PITA with gotchyas just trying to save some money on wire costs as justification for going to 48v.
Damn you have the fuses on the bus bar? Sorry, but I thought fuses were supposed to protect the wire, and if they’re at the end of the wire at the bar, wouldn’t that make them pointless?
Thanks Nick, I’m very new to this but am following your advice building my very simple camper van 410w setup, see how I go 😂 really appreciate the quality advice.
🎁 Free Diagrams: cleversolarpower.com/free-diagrams
Finally someone shows what is really needed. GREAT video. We've gone 3 summers around the US with a propane stove, 2 wet cel Gp31 batteries, 200 w solar, Renogy DCC50s (combination b2b MPPT controller), Isotherm 130 AC/DC Refrigerator with Freezer, 200W cigarette lighter inverter, and a 3g hot water tank with 12V element run the last hour of driving each day. IF we decide we need a toaster or coffee maker we'll add a 2000W Renogy inverter for $280.00. It's not for everyone but if your budget is tight electrics is where to save.
Really love how you explain everything here with such simplicity. The diagrams are easy on the eyes as well. Keep up the great content!
Thanks Nick, I’m very new to this but am following your advice building my very simple camper van 410w setup, see how I go 😂 really appreciate the quality advice.
Your the man thank you for helping all of us with questions about solar...
I did have one question about 12v or 24v ? Don't you lose some amps going from 12v to 24v? Usable amps that is...
This was great, I'll be moving onto a narrow boat soon and have to deal with this exact sort of set-up. The problem narrow boats have is finding enough clear space on the roof to fit the amount of panels you would like.
Very well explained…thank you…Have fun stay safe.
@6:49 quick correction, 10 gauge is 6mm2 not 4, 4mm2 is 12 gauge, and since most PV's come with 12AWG (4mm2) with only 3-5 feet of cable, your up-to branches will be OK, but after the branch connectors you need the heavier gauge, perhaps this is what you were meaning to say, also you're paralleling, where are the individual in-line fuses?
(Some countries mandate in-line fuses when paralleling - Australia does, fused internally accessible, before combined - when paralleling, used with fuse block method like you show on the battery line does away with branch connectors, simpler too IMHO), I'd also be using another breaker on the MPPT battery out, if for nothing more than use as an isolator, and also a breaker between battery and inverter.
pro tip: when buying MC4's make sure they are the right sizing, average off the shelf are for 12awg/4mm2, you need to make sure the type you buy (using this diagram) is for 10awg/6mm2, or greater if your wire size is bigger, but 10mm2 (8awg) is the biggest you can get in an MC4, also important to note the largest cable dia on all terminals of things like breakers, MPPT, etc, as some MPPTs screw terminals are ridiculously small
Last tip, for wire size, add up all your currents, protection should be 25% greater (as you make mention of calling the safety factor) but what it is also recommended is, the wire size should be 50% greater, eg: 100A = 125A breaker/fuse and 150A capable wire, this way there is no question of electrical wiring being cause for your insurance company denying you payment should your camper/RV/off grid or boat, burn to the ground.
A few points.
The use of MRBF fuse at the battery is important. Under fault conditions a lithium battery can produce over 7000 amps. Fuses have a limit on how much fault current they can withstand. MRBF can withstand 10000 amps in a 12v system . Alternatives are classT, HRC, and BS88 fuses.
No neutral bond condition or use of RCD protection was discussed with regard to the inverter. Whilst resionably save if a single appliance is directly pluged into the inverter, and distributed AC system with multiple outputs, needs RCD protection.
Any DC or AC system in a RV needs a reference point, the metal body, chassis or frame.
Solar panels in series handle shade better than expected due to bypass diodes . Having 100 watt panels, all In parallel, will perform badly in lowlight conditiond. Having two in series connected in parallel to the other two is series will give a little more power early/late in the day and low light conditions. There is also a lower volt drop due to lower current and easier interconnections.
Well presented video, perhaps using all metric sizes and refering to a conversion chart, would make a clearer presentation.
1. I made a video about fuse types.
2. I made a video about ground, neutral bond and the use of a GFCI.
3. thats true.
4. i try my best to include metric sizes where i can.
Thank for your feedback, i appreciate it.
Very informative.
Great information Mr. Clever
You can call me Nick 😀
ٌYou are a flood of information,thank you,i am still waiting for the 9000 btu Ac backup system.
I'm drowning in video ideas already 😅
I love your content❤ How are the panels made safe by the DC breaker before the charge controller if the panels are still exposed to the sun?
The dc breaker does not make the panels safe. They only disconnect the solar from the system (like a switch). You can add fuses in a parallel solar panel system (use MC-4 fuses) for every positive. Checkout my video about grounding as well.
Informative, Informative, Informative...!! Thank You..!!! 😍😍😍
Thanks! Glad it was helpful.
Hello just bought your book haven't started reading yet but my question is can you plug that 14.6 v/ 20 amp lithium charger straight into the ac side of a regular gas generator to charge.
Yes you can.
A good design and no criticism intended. But, can I add that in a camping situation though sometimes you don't get the choice to park up where sun is optimal and all those fixed solar panels even when wired in parallel can be rendered useless if you're under trees. I can't speak for other countries typically, but, In Australian bushland that's often a problem when camping. It can be solved by incorporating either a second solar controller to enable 'additional' use of portable solar panels or blankets, Or instead a one or the other two source (position 1 or 2) switch leading to a separate connection socket (Anderson 50A) for portable panels. That way you can switch out the fixed useless shaded panels and still use the existing solar controller for portable panels you can locate out in the sun. Of course it adds to cost but the frustration of getting no sun on your fixed panels will eventually catch you out and make you wish that you had that secondary solar input.
Great observation. We talked about having portable solar panels, but he didn't like to carry and set them up them all the time. If i were to make a campervan then i would have 200W of portable solar, for the reasons you just mentioned. Thanks for the great addition.
Is it possible to work together, charger and solars panels ? Or need to switch off the solar panels when work the charger ?
Both can be used at the same time. Batteries have a recommended charging current, for a lifepo4 this is usually 50-100A max.
cool
Good stuff 12v is safer than 48v ime getting 2 x 300ah eve .05 discharge rate, the prices are dropping also new tech storage batteries are on the way soon
Hi, is it not cheaper and easier to buy an Ecoflow solar generator for example? And now with the alternator charger looks like the way to go, any thoughs on this? Thanks and greeting.
Thanks so much for all this great information. I have a question regarding the shore powered battery charger. Is it safe to have a system where the 3 methods of charging are basically unregulated by a central source. Using a DC/DC charger with MPPT would assure a seamless use of 2 charging inputs. Then using a inverter/charger would satisfy the shore power scenario. Or you could use a separate inverter and ad a stand alone battery charger as you have, but with a disconnect to control the power going to the battery.
I don't understand the question very well. You can have multiple charging sources charging the same battery bank. As long as the max charging current of the battery is not reached. You can have everything separate or use an all in one inverter.
This was a very good explanation. So now I subscribe to your channel in the future :-). I also have a question: I have a plant with 1 pc. 360W solar panel and 2 pcs. 290 AGM 12V batteries with a 40A charge controller. For this I want to connect to use a 12V to 220V inverter. I have an inverter of 1500W/3000W and one of 1000W/2000W and am wondering which of them I can use. My wish was to be able to use a 1200W coffee maker. But after your explanations, I'm not sure if it works on this plant. Or what do you think I can do?
Use the 1,500W inverter. I have replied to your email as well.
hello,i got two 100 watt pannels on roof,30 amp dc to dc charger one deep cycle battery,a fuse pannel,good wire.how would i set this up with small battery charger for running shore power?oh and have two breaker fuses for system.
Checkout my easy 12V system video.
Thank you much for all this information 🙏…I have Q ….I have tractor trailer I need to do the same system all I care about I need Air conditioning system last me for 10 hours..
Checkout my video about sizing a solar panel system.
❤❤❤
How did you get 14.4v? At the start of your show, Is that your battery capacity? Or assuming battery charging output? By the way luv your show bro 🇦🇺
14.4V is the recommended charging voltage of lifepo4 batteries. Most are programmed at 14.6V though.
Thanks where can I buy your off grid book?
4 gauge handles how many amps? 12:09
I heard 450 amps, which might be for 4/0 (four-ought)
But the fusing and wiring sizing is correct, so I assume I didn't hear correctly (150A)
yeah, listening again, it is just my old ears.
thanks for the video!
4AWG welding cable rated at 105°C insulation temperature can handle 150A. My bad for the bad articulation 😉
@@cleversolarpower Got me to pay attention - and yes that is an important point!
Insulation rating matters. Some people get hung up on building wiring, in the U.S. that is often type THHN and they use National Electrical Code ampacity charts.
It is also useful to evaluate the The American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) for vehicle applications. IF the distance is short & in free air, you might be able to push that to 160 amperes.
I like your practical approach in making adjustments to find a real, available fuse!
Well done, thanks.
Recharge from panels 1.5 days ???
I was also in the situation to choose, I would have liked this video material. but I was too lazy. I chose an Eco Flow Staion Delta 2 and 400w panels from the same company.
Yes, you would need 1.5 days of sunshine (on average) to recharge the battery (12V 200Ah). You can check for your location on a website called pvwatts.
@@cleversolarpower ok , and thank you for answer.
I will be upgrading my home system to 24 or 48 volts. I just can't afford the inverter yet.....
12v is great, but only for smaller systems, not home systems like yours.
Indeed. I couldn't have said it better.
Why not have a convenient on/off switch for the inverter?
Or also an in-line inverter timer with its own on/off switch so that the refrigerator is only turned on every 15-20 minutes? Any other devices (ex: water heater) you turn on before use (shower). I don't see why there is any need to waste electricity through the inverter to a significant degree especially when on batteries.
The inverter has an off-switch and a remote off-switch. I didn't draw it in the diagram. You should not use an on-off switch for the fridge as that will likely interrupt the working of the fridge. You can use an energy efficient inverter like the victron phoenix lineup.
This all seems very expensive.
Lithium batteries only recently have come down in cost. But why not use 24 or even 48V ? The microwave will kill the 12V battery. Lights can be switched in series.
Good question. Because a DC to DC charger is most available in 12V variants. 24V is also available but then you need a converter for your 12V appliances. So it's a balance between the two. 48V DC to DC chargers are quite expensive.
Use 48v for larger systems which will reduce wire costs substantially, and it's safer to deal with. Just 2 of the several reasons to not use 12v for larger systems.
@@cleversolarpower Many ways to skin a cat: 800V cars sometimes split batteries and put 2 in parallel to charge faster on 400V charger. I would use 2 100AH 12V batteries and a few good contactors to series them when using the microwave on a 24V inverter. 2 small isolated output chargers to keep the batteries topped up when arriving on a non powered campground.
@@cleversolarpower On top of the additional costs that you pointed out there's also a problem with deploying enough solar panels in some camping situations, or on the vehicle itself they're fitted to, to get open circuit voltage high enough to charge a 48v system. It then also leads back to series connections of panels and the associated shading problems. In the case of portable panels it makes it even more complex and expensive and creates a rather large footprint of multiple panels connected in series on the ground that all have to be orientated exactly the same to the sun. It can be royal a PITA with gotchyas just trying to save some money on wire costs as justification for going to 48v.
Damn you have the fuses on the bus bar? Sorry, but I thought fuses were supposed to protect the wire, and if they’re at the end of the wire at the bar, wouldn’t that make them pointless?
No, not at all. The current through the wire is the same at the beginning and end, so the fuse protects the whole wire.
Thanks Nick, I’m very new to this but am following your advice building my very simple camper van 410w setup, see how I go 😂 really appreciate the quality advice.
cool