Are 2ah batteries as strong as 4ah batteries?
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
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Dave the ones saying there's no difference in cells or ah's, are the same people still using Windows 3.1 and a bag cell phone. LOL
Took the words out of my mouth 🤣
lol. I agree
Lol
My 1994 yacht can go 43 mph and similar competitors for the 2020 model year go 42 mph. I do have an aftermarket propeller
Perfect! Exactly what I have been looking for. Glad to see it demonstrated with great detail and examples. Keep it up man , and much appreciated.
you are welcome and I thank you Felix
As an electrician a good analogy would be a capacitor. When a motor is started you can watch the voltage drop momentarily. If you install an appropriate size capacitor the voltage will not drop.
It’s the same with batteries.
I agree. Batteries are storage vessels! The more cells you have, the more electrons you can move!
I think this was a good way to show the difference as well
@b gg
Could you link to an article or in your own words explain what’s wrong with my statement?
Also I would like to point out that I said analogy
Is a drill, impact or grinder not a electric motor? I still feel my point stands. The higher the amp hour less the voltage will drop under load.
I’ve seen it proven on ryobi stuff before. The guy had a 1.3 ah battery and a 4 ah in his impact. And it was a clear difference in power. I loved how you showed it to be true with all the major brands. It really proves that battery size makes a difference. I really liked the video. Great job!!
I thank you very much Billy
I was wondering also about this. Thank you for the answer. The video was long but I enjoyed watching it.
Would love to see you try impact wrenches on bolts.
I thank you Basilis
Mate congratulations on being the 1st person to prove there is a big difference in battery capacity.
Don't understand why people don't know. Maybe they have only small battery's so can't compare. So well done dave for making it very clear. Must have taken a lot of time filming and editing everything. But it look like great fun. You have the best job!!! Tool addicts we salute you sir. 🤩👍
I thank you sir. I got tired of people calling me an idiot and say there is no difference between any battery besides duration.
@@ManCaverTools proved them wrong. 😄 brilliant video!
Man Caver Tools people shouldn’t have been calling you an idiot, and I’m sorry to hear that happened. If they felt that you didn’t know better, they should have been decent about it and just explained what info they think you were missing out on.
Some people, sheesh! More flies with honey than 💩!
Absolutely fantastic video. Anyone who didn't know this before must have only used their drills to take off cover plates lol. Now I want to get that new Dewalt hammer drill with an 8ah battery running on 21700cells for ultimate cordless drilling.
I thank you very much Alex :)
Thank you for the video sir
Thank you so much for these kinds of videos 👍👍👍
Keep going ✔✔✔
You are welcome and I thank you
Thank you! This should be common knowledge.
I thank you Jonas :) I agree
Love how you keep taking the bit* out for no reason hahaha. I understand though we've all been there
I have no reason why. fore every battery swap as well lol
another great video. this should end the debate that higher ah batteries will provide more power
I agree and it should
18650 = 4.8L
21700 = 5.3L
Brushed = carburetor
Brushless = fuel injection
2ah = regular
4ah = premium
This is what I tell some customers
How about double the cells, double the power.
I thank you for sharing that dean
Awesome!! Keep it up!!
I thank out Mrfender
Good review!
I thank you Patrick
Good job on proveing that point lol. good vid.
I thank you Zach
Great vid 👍
I thank you Big
ty great video!
I thank you ada
Thank YOUUUUU finally someone has made video explaining how batteries are different and not the same and is that the high or medium torque dewalt hammer drill?
I thank you Harold and it is the high torque dewalt
God I loved this video! Awesome job shutting up the haters!
I thank you Caleb :)
One simple way to explain voltage platform and amp hours has been this:
12v = V6 engine
18v = V8 engine
Amp Hours (AH) = gas tank
18650 cells = smaller internal gas tank pump (less efficient).
21700 cells = larger internal gas tank pump (doesn’t have to work as hard, more efficient).
The bigger the gas tank and pump, the bigger the fuel line coming out (representing total output of pack), the easier it is to pump gas out, more performance.
Watt hours (WH) = true apples to apples measurement between brands, because sometimes companies “embellish” their measurements. Typically listed either on the battery pack itself and/or the packaging the battery comes in.
this wasn't a versus video against other brands. this was a versus video of brands against their own batteries
Man Caver Tools yes, I understand that. I typed this explanation out not necessarily for you, but for others that may need an easy way to grasp the topic
You forgot on Hilti 21.6V batteries :) They using one more cell per battery (18V = 5 cells, 21.6V = 6 cells).
magicokid I didn’t forget them, I chose not to add them since they are outside of the normal 18v offerings. Most brands are typically 12 or 18. Same principles apply though.
@@Borescoped Yeah, 21.6V (V12 engine) its not typically types :) (HILTI)
Great video! The differences in cells used is negligible. The most important part of all of this is the electronics in the tool that recognize the change in power availability. So I think it has more to do with the tool than the actual battery.
I thank you for viewing Nosa
For everyone to understand WHY the 2ah is stronger than the 4ah, it has to do with the "C ratting system" of batteries
A 5C rated battery will empty it's capacity 5 times faster than a 1C rated battery. Now assuming 2 batteries (A and B) , A = 2ah and B = 4 ah capacity, both with a 5C rating system.
The maximum amps discharge based on the C rating is, C * capacity, therefore , 5 * 2 = 10 Amps max discharge for battery A
5 * 4 = 20 amps max discharge for battery B
So its not just capacity
For your next impact socket adapter could you try out the harbor freight ones.
Thats not a bad idea
It’ll be RUclips gold if one breaks right?
The dewalt power detect boost the power when it senses one of their high output 6.0 and such I wonder if it also lowers the power when using a regular 1.5 or 2.0 ah
I am not sure but the 2ah for the dewalt did a good job in this video
Everything u have said is true, I have researched the 21700 vs 18650.. They compare it to internal resistance. Kinda like a gauge of wire being bigger or smaller and causing resistance, the easier it flows ( or he bigger cells) the more power it can maintain during power. Alogn with lasting longer. Small higher ah vs lower ah or 21700 to 18640.. Bigger is better more is easier to mantain
I thank you for giving me the extra research bro
@@ManCaverTools im rephrasing what u have already said lol we both know the difference
I like corded tools 👍
Very good and I thank you Charles
Can definately tell the 18650 from 21700 cells, I can hear the speed difference in my ridgid impact wrench and my circ saw.
yes you can and I thank you Mixwell
I am an electrical engineer. You are still WRONG! (Maybe half wrong) I know what I am talking about. Please listen and learn. Most of the time, you are right. The more Amp/hours per pack, the more power. But not always.
The power a battery pack has is measured in Amps or Watts, NOT Amp/hours. Amp/hours is a measure of run time and ONLY run time, NOT power. Yes, a 5.0 Amp/hour battery pack has more power than a 2.0 Amp/hour pack. The 5.0 has more power because it has more Watts, NOT because it has more Amp/hours. Higher Amp/hour packs don't always have more Watts and sometimes they can even have less.
For instance, compare a Milwaukee 9.0 pack to a Milwaukee 6.0 pack. If you were right, the 9.0 pack would have more power. But it doesn't. The 9.0 would win in a run time test and the 6.0 would win in a power output test. As a rule of thumb, each single 18650 cell is rated at 80 Watts per cell. Each 21700 cell is rated at 140 Watts per cell. Just count the cells and multiply its Watt rating to calculate a battery pack's power. The 9.0 has 3 rows of 18650 cells (5 cells per row) for a total of 15 cells multiplied by 80 for a total of 1200 Watts. The Milwaukee 6.0 battery has 2 rows of 21700 cells for a total of 10 cells multiplied by 140 for a total of 1400 Watts. A battery's Amp/hour rating does not always tell the whole story. In this case, if you judged a pack's power based on it's Amp/hour rating, you would be wrong.
Here is another example: Milwaukee has 2 kinds of 12V 3.0 packs. The larger 3.0 XC pack with 6 cells has twice the power (480 Watts) as the smaller 3.0 CP pack (240 Watts) that has only 3 cells. In this case, same run time, different power.
In the case of Ryobi HP batteries, they use "High Performance" 18650 cells that are rated at 100 Watts per cell. Go ahead and compare a 3.0 HP (The taller one) to a 6.0 HP pack They will have about the same power. They each use 10 18650 HP cells for a total of 1000 Watts. In this case, same power, different run time. The 9.0 HP pack will outperform both because it has 5 more cells, (1500 Watts) not because it has more Amp/hours.
It might seem counter intuitive, but comparing a Dewalt 6.0 Flexvolt to a Milwaukee 9.0 is fair. However, comparing a Milwaukee 9.0 battery to a Dewalt 9.0 battery is unfair. The Milwaukee 9.0 is rated at 1200 Watts. The Dewalt 6.0 is also rated at 1200 Watts but their 9.0 is rated at 2100 Watts. (The Dewalt 9.0 uses 21700 cells and the Dewalt 6.0 Flexvolt and Milwaukee 9.0 use 18650 cells.)
I wish manufacturers would disclose the Watt ratings of each pack to clear up the confusion but I think they don't want to confuse consumers with too many specs. There are other factors such as the battery pack's electronics, age and quality of the cells. but this is a good starting template to use when comparing packs from different brands.
I appreciate your technical breakdown and have no doubt your information is dead on, however I just want to point out that I think the whole point of the video was to correct the people who falsely thought ah was only affecting runtime, as in you can slap the smallest shittiest battery pack on any tool that exists and get maximum power out of it even if for just a small amount of time.
Great explanation. I knew some of this but not to that level of detail.
Someone has not looked at the bottom of their battery packs, or the packaging the batteries come in... it’s not easy to recognize sometimes, but the Watt Hours (Wh) is often listed. www.dewalt.com/products/accessories/batteries-and-chargers/batteries/20v60v-max-flexvolt-90ah-battery/dcb609. picclick.com/Milwaukee-5ICR19-65-2-M18-Red-Lithium-XC-50-Battery-123680526844.html
@@Borescoped Watt/hours is also just a measure of run time. You don't have to look at the bottom of the pack to find Wh. All you have to do is multiply the battery's voltage times its Ah to get Wh. Wh and Ah are just a measure of how much time a pack can discharge 1 Watt or 1 Amp at pack's rated voltage before it is fully discharged. Measuring Wh and Ah would be like measuring the size of a car's gas tank. Amps and Watts would be like comparing the horsepower of a car's engine.
you are correct. Like I show show in the video, its not the same case for every battery. the Dewalt 2ah was able to do the task that all of the other batteries didn't
I agree with you and will add bosch core 6.3 that has 20700 cells and more power & run time then 18650 cells the bosch does have 21700 cells in the core 4.0 ah 8.0 ah & 12.0 ah core batteries
I need to get Bosch. thank you for reminding me
If u buy a kit with a drill and impact, and a 2 and 4ah battery, use the 2 for the impact, 4 for the drill. Winning!
Winning :)
More rows of cells, more amperage and therefore more wattage is possible. One row ~400W, 2 rows ~800w, 3 rows ~1200W.
Correct sir :)
And with 2 rows the cells suffer 50% of the tension, effort, temperature... with this they work better.
The reason the dewalt could do that with the 2ah battery is because its strain sensitivity isn't as sensitive as the others, so it will take more load causing excessive wear compared to others
That is good that dewalt did that
There are two reason for why you can get more juice from more cells. First there is a voltage drop on each cell when using them. The voltage is higher when the tools are turned off. Second, the batteries have internal resistance that is stoppning them from delivering all power. More cells means less resistance. The exact amount of resistance should be written in the data sheet.
and that is what I say in the video :) and thank you Mikeal
In general the issue with 2ah batteries once they got under load the voltage simply drops because they can't support the same output amps @ same voltage
So generally if you want to get the best out of your tool go for the highest (AH) your brand support
That is correct
Yes, the best performance will be had by going for the highest AH... but a consideration must be made for weight. Slapping a M18 12AH battery on a small 1 hand use M18 tool will make it perform best, but over time that extra weight would kill your arm. I’d say run the XC packs as the biggest for a 1 hand tool, and the XC packs as the smallest for the high power 2 hand tools as the minimum. Always exceptions to the rule though, like a high torque impact should use XC or HD, but nail guns should be XC or CP size batteries.
How does the 8ah power detect compared to the FlexVolt? I’d think the 21700 would do even better no?
blows it out of the water
6:42 I do not know...why are you? 😂
lol
Using Hilti as an example, a 22v 3ah battery will deliver 66 watts, the 22v 8ah puts out 176 watts, a massive difference, maybe another reason to go with lower ah batteries is their weight? Lower weight can make the tool easier to use in awkward spaces
That is correct Stuart. a lot of people need to hold these tools for a long period of time
To the people that always understood or understand now disregard this,
To the people that still are saying 18650s and 21700 cells are the same I thought of a comparison you may be able to understand. Let's say a 18650 is like a AAA battery and a 21700 is like a D cell battery. Your argument is like saying they both have the same voltage so they should be able to power the same things. Which is wrong because the D cell (and for example the 21700) battery has a lot more angry pixies inside ready to go power something than a AAA battery (18650 for example).
How does this compare to for example makita using 2x 18v 6ah 18650 batteries in a 36v tool which gives you 216wh. Compared to their new xgt 36v 21700 cells but less wh in the battery.
its crazy that people don't think there is a difference
The Dewalt hammer drill wasn't really fair with the other hammer drills cause the others were in high and it was in medium mode and not high
becasue the dewalt has trouble to do that task on speed 3. the Dewalt power detect hammer drill can do it on speed 3 with ease
Great video!! but what about the craftsman?
I didn't have other ah batteries for craftsman yet. I only had 2 2ah batteries
Man Caver Tools I gotcha, this was a great video to explain ah!! Thank you
Is a parkside tools a good brand as none are in your demos
never heard of them but I I will check them out
To me the ahms it makes alot diferent more powers and run times
that is correct and I thank you Juan
It’s the discharge rate of each cell. The 21700 cells generally have 35-45 amp discharge rate. Most 18650 cells having only 15-25 amp discharge rate. And if you ever decide to get into playing around with individual cells on your own make sure to study and learn about the different cells. I have some 18650 cells designed for use in low amp draw circuits like flashlights and the cells used are only rated for 8-10 amp discharge rate but they have a higher mah rating so lower current draw but longer run time. Then I have others rated for 25 amp discharge rate for more power hungry devices but they have a lower mah so they don’t last as long. It’s all about trade offs and what you need the cells to do. I have found most name brand tools using good quality 18650 cells that have an equal balance of discharge rate and mah usually around 20 amp draw and 3000 mah per cell.
Yes sir and I thank you for viewing Janes. this video puts what you just said into lamins terms lol
You can look this up... go look at 21700 vs 18650’s... the 21700 have higher current draw limits. Done... no need to argue further. When you wire these up in parallel to increase max current draw this is amplified.
A good 18650 max peak current draw: 20-25A
The same Sony battery in 21700: 40A
So let’s say we were using the only a single cell at 4.3V and drawing 25 amps or 40 amps. 107 watts vs 172 watts.
correct, and this videos proves those people are wrong that there is no difference
We all know the losing batteries were given the ole freezer treatment to make it seem like not every battery is the same. 😎
lol
Dave, the individuals saying there’s no difference between an 18650 cell lithium ion battery and a 21700 cell lithium ion battery is an individual that doesn’t know what they’re talking about and one who’s never tried a tool with the newer cells.
I recently watched a couple VCG Tool Test Raws where they were pitting the new Kobalt tools with 21700 cell batteries against Milwaukee Gen 3 tools using 5 amp batteries. I’m yelling at my iPad and chatting that it’s not a true apples to apples comparison of the tools since the Milwaukee drill, impact and Hackzall (think those were the tools being tested) were all being powered by the 5 amp battery, with 18650 cells. The Milwaukee won, which wasn’t the point, as it would’ve smoked the Kobalt tools with the right or equal battery pairing. Their logic in the testing was the tool being tested should use the battery that came with the tool...
I know this because I’ve seen the performance increase with the Fuel tools using a 3 amp HO battery and 6 amp HO battery vs 5 amp or 9 amp. Way more power and torque with the High Output 21700 cell batteries!
wayyyy more power, its actually crazy on how much power is released with the batteries and I thank you Marty
can some explain how this is possible?
i know that AH is a unit of storage and not power\output, as in the "fuel tank" of the battery.
so how is this possible?
The more cells in the battery has the less strain each individual cells take. letting you use the power that is already in the battery. it doesn't give the tool more power. more cells just let you use the power it already has.
@@ManCaverTools thank you, you made me just a little bit smarter
With all those tools you need to build a dope shop...or a cleat wall...... a workbench... shelves.... anything.... just build something cool
im not working on the house right now, since its summer I am working on the lawn. I will be working on the house in fall
Electricity is mathematics. The math don't lie!
indeed point spider, and I thank you sir
Are you getting any Festools?
when I can I will :)
I know it wasn’t about the tool but the Milwaukee gen 3 impact wins lol
that impact is amazing
When you're drilling a large hole like that, it would be sensible to use speed/gear 1 for the extra power.
I know you're trying to test and show that there are things you can't do with a 2ah that the larger ones can. But I'm sure if it was on 1 it would work. But in the time of today time is money and no one wants to use the low gear unless absolutely needed
Just to let you know that you can warranty on your husky adapter
it was only $6 for 3 adaptors, its all good.
@@ManCaverTools 👍
Like 👍
I thank you sir
keep seeing alot of the same sort of comments, in this specific test yes the bigger the better, but one of the biggest factors that many dont consider is the task... depending the task at hand a 2ah or 5ah can/wont make a difference, not everyone is screwing big lugs in tree stomps, or drilling 200 holes in thick wood etc.
theres gonna be alot of diy people that are just putting shelves up, or drilling a few small holes here an there, or maybe a small bit of screwing/fencing etc are gonna google this and wanna know this and think they are gonnna need the bigger batteries.
bottom line is, if your doing big jobs everyday with quite heavy loads etc, the bigger battery will be better for you.
if you are a diy person doing small jobs here and there, or maybe you just want/need a tool in the house for when need arrises the a 2ah battery is wayyyy more then enough.
I know its state the obvious but alot are coming here skipping bits just to get the results and/or just reading the comments.
there are some people that still think not matter the task batteries will perform the same no matter what ah
You compare Hilti B22 8.0 (develop around in 2018, 21700 cells) against B22 2.6 (develop maybe around in 2013, 18650 cells). Its a fact, that 21700 have more power output and less heat. If you compare B22 5.2 (develop more that 7 year before, 18700 cells) against B22 4.0 (new 21700 cells) = B22 4.0 with less capacity have same power output and less heat.
this is to show that there is a difference in ah bro. deal with it
@@ManCaverTools i try tell u, here is a difference in cells with same Ah.
Is there a difference with amp hours with the m12?
Big difference. I have the m12 fuel hammer drill and drilling pocket holes with the 2ah it stalls but with the 4 or 6 it does it faster and without stalling.
It doesn't matter what battery platform bigger batteries give the tool more power
@@dennisslobodyanyuk800 do you notice a difference between the 4ah and 6ah on the M12? I have read that the cells used in the 4ah are actually better cells, and so it puts out more power than 6ah. The 6ah lasts longer, but not as powerful.
Jayjayhooks I’ve heard that to, but I haven’t really noticed a difference. I only use the drill for small things. If I need something heavy duty I pull out my big dewalt.
@@dennisslobodyanyuk800 fair enough. The only tool I'm really concerned with is my M12 impact wrench. It's probably the only 12v tool I would use most regularly that really needs as much power as possible.
DeWalt is the only one with 3 speeds. 3 would be more equal to 2 for the other drills. 2 for DeWalt would be more like in the middle of 1 and 2 for the other drills!
but the issue is dewalt has a tuff time in speed 3. and in some of my test if a drill stops while im using it, it loses. so in some cases speed 3 is bad
I’m shocked what big difference there is.
I am as well and I thank you Slim
you forgot the Bosch😔
I don't have that many Bosch tools yet :(
This is real testing like & subscribe
I thank you Toolman
You are are inconsistent with your testing and outcomes. In the video you make it sound and look like the Milwaukee 2 amp preforms the same as their 5 amp. What is it? Does the 2aH preform the same as the 5aH which in your theory, the 5 should preform better.
the Milwaukee 2 ah only did good when with the impact driver
Size matters.....
yes it does and I thank you Toolmat
Makita =O
Some cells outperform other cells.. generalities always have exceptions
I agree, it was awesome that the dewalt was able to do
@@ManCaverTools yes I recently saw some post a video where DeWalt NiCad batteries lied about cells they used, glad they turned it around!
2 amp our batterys are enough for
you
First
I thank you Evan