This Player Was a Faster (and Better) Baserunner Then Rickey Henderson
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- Опубликовано: 20 апр 2023
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MTC should have left the claim as "This Player was a faster baserunner than Rickey Henderson." He was. But Vince Coleman topped out at 110 SB and 25 CS. Rickey topped out at 130 SB. OK, so he had 42 CS. But when he stole "only" 108 SB, he had only 19 SB. Also, Coleman's baserunning decline was typical. Henderson led the league in stolen bases at 39 years old, with 66 (against still only 13 CS). It's not like Rickey didn't have injury problems. At 28, he played in only 95 games and stole only 48 bases, causing Yankees owner George Steinbrenner to label him a "prima donna" and get rid of him after the following season. But Rickey was SO good, most people looked past the fact that he took extra care of his legs. Coleman just faded away. But I would agree that Coleman was the SECOND best base-runner ever.
Great video! I’ve heard Vince Coleman, but have never really known that much about him. Crazy how his career could have turned out.
Video fogot to mention Vince Coleman the fastest player in baseball got run over by the tarp machine breaking his leg. This was in the playoffs right before the 4th game of the NLCS causing him to miss the rest of the playoffs and World Series.
Ricky was the Base running G.O.A.T.
Here me out now… Numbers aside, it has to be Ricky. He was smarter. F’ing CUNNING at his craft. Dude had it down to a science. Pitchers feared having him on ANY BAG. Because he created RBI’s for everyone behind him. Imagine the Bash Bro’s numbers, if they didn’t have and almost guaranteed RBI, almost every at bat. Ricky created so much offense for the A’s, it was staggering. Catchers hated how he played with em. (Enter Pudge Rodriguez and THAT rivalry). They knew he was going. They knew they couldn’t throw him out. Dude was scientifically terrorizing teams. Oh, and that dude had an All-Time great Mad dog, mean mug, stare down face.
Side Note: My father has a picture of me at 12 yrs old, heckling god out of Ricky, at the Kingdome…and he’s flipping me off. Dead A$&
Him and Billy Hamilton are guys that would've definitely passed Lou Brock and maybe even challenged Rickey for the all time base stealing title of they were even average hitting wise.
And both had the advantage of being switch hitters unlike Henderson and Brock.
They are nothing like Henderson. It is an insult to be even mentioned in the same breath.
@@joeyg1404 facts
Absurd. Hamilton's best season, he was a .260 hitter. If we give him a 50% boost in stats to give him 660 plate appearances, he ends with a total of 87 stolen bases on a combined 214 Hits and Walks. Rickeys best was 130 steals in a season where he had a combine Hits and Walks total of 259.
So to top Rickey, while having the exact number of hits and walks, Hamilton would need to steal 43 bases in 45 times on base.
Hamilton wasn't ever even close to Rickey.
Coleman, at least there's an "at their best" argument to be made. But neither would have approached the record without the longevity it took Brock to set and Rickey to absolutely demolish. He has almost 50% more steals than Brock did. He stole 66 when he was 39.
You either forgot, or never knew. Because to put Hamilton's name in the same sentence, unless the sentence is: "Billy Hamilton is not in Rickeys stratosphere": is crazy.
Hamilton, I agree doesn't belong anywhere in the conversation. But Coleman at least had an otherworldly run. He looked for a period as if he COULD be a guy to challenge, at the time still Brock.
Hamilton's best season was 59... Henderson stole 66 when he was 39 years old.
I totally remember watching Vince Coleman play while I was growing up and I remember really liking him for his hustle on the field. He did strike me as a something of a tough guy also.
As a guy who grew up in the '80s as a Cards fan, no. Rickey had basically the same success rate but twice as many steals. No way Vince keeps a better success rate stealing that many more bags over years of aging and slowing down.
Exactly. Rickey was on another level.
Rickey stole 66 bases when he was 39. It's a wrap.
Henderson, Coleman and Tim Raines had overlapping careers. It was an exciting era on the basepaths.
Mariner legends Ricky Henderson and Vince Coleman
1987 St. Louis Cardinals we’re just Immortal & Aggressive 🔥
You did NOT want to go up against that crew ‼️🤣
The best advice for hitting against the Cards in that era was not to put the ball in play. Walk, hit a home run... don't let a fielder get a shot at it... Ozzie, Pendleton, McGhee, Coleman, Tommy Herr.... the only guy on the field not known for his glove work at the time that I can think of is Jack Clark, and I once saw him rob a home run from first base. (I've looked everywhere for video of it... the announcers were flabbergasted... full extension leap to catch one of the hardest hit line drives I've ever seen. The announcers were the ones- and watching it, I believed it, to say he probably robbed a home run.
/It was sort of weird that their elite fielding team was always going head to head with their former first baseman, Keith Hernandez, who was probably the greatest defensive 1st baseman of all times... I mean, can you imagine if they'd still had his glove in that mix?
@@nacoran Yes, 🥃
Oh Yes
Vince, Ozzie, Tommy Herr, Willie McGee, Curt Ford, Terry Pendleton. And then Jack Clark to crush the ball and get everyone running.
So many great memories in that post season... That Smith home run, j Clarke blast... Dramatics in the 9th inning.
Can't steal on natural grass surfaces? What do you think Rickey was doing?
Rod Carew once stole 2nd, then 3rd, then stole home consecutively! During the hitters same at bat! Carew was a master of stealing home. Believe he did it 12 times one year!
Babe Ruth once made the final out of a World Series getting caught stealing second. But he weirdly stole home pretty successfully. He did it 10 times.
Just looked it up... It was 17!!! So he's even better than you thought. Lol
So fast and yet still got run over by a tarp roller
If he didn't get the auto tarp to the leg he really would have stole some bags
I was a base stealer like you, until I took a tarp roller to the knee.
I remember the firecracker incident as a kid. The guy seemed like a real scumbag for doing that.
Dang
Comparing Vince Coleman to Rickey Henderson is comically absurd
Why do some people think that smothering sports history with meaningless numbers somehow makes them feel smarter? All of the asinine statistics (WAR, etc.) make you feel like you know more? If you can't just enjoy the game for what it is, keep it to yourself.
To become a great baserunner you first have to get on the bases
Did he steal 1406 bases tho? And 130 in a single season?
The stealing goat 🐐 Coleman
Could’ve been an inner circle hall of famer if he didn’t have personal issues
Then or than
It's too bad Vince was rather unstable. He started out with such excitement in his career.
Lol...yeah, right!
Great job, but ditch the 2nd Channel and just upload this stuff to Main. People will watch shorter vids on main, they dont care. Splitting off rarely works
Tim raines is the best all time base runner in my humble opinion. I still would pick Rickey as my all time lead off due to his obp.
I think Rains was on illegal enhancements tho 😅😅... Not steroids. Great player tho
@@kevinduprey9326 lol.very true.
Than
Tim rains, bo Jackson, vince Coleman maybe faster in 40yd race but NOT base running
GOAT #35/24 R. Henderson
then? That is a time.
In a comparison you use THAN!
It's really not this hard to figure out.
Statistically I wanna say impossible cuz I mean Ricky was ricky
Than, not then.
If you hold the sb record then you're the best. Ricky was hands down better
ummmmm... THAN
Ricky was juiced???
never heard of Tim Raines I guess.
Rock 🪨 Raines
I sure did
How many elite athletes are ruined when they get to teams in the biggest cities in the country? 24/7 trouble to be found and plenty of leeches waiting to help you find it.
4:09 "Best baserunner in mlb history"???? Cmon! RH played the entire career of Coleman. In Coleman's 13 year career, RH had more stolen bases 7 of those seasons. You can't be a good base runner if you are not on base
Rickey is faster and better base stealer
Ricky was not faster and it’s not even close
@@finnfinn7703 Vince Coleman was not half of the runner Rickey was look at the numbers you fool
No lol As someone who watched both in person-something I can tell by the youthfulness in your voice you did NOT. No offense. Rickey was on a different planet. Vince was good, but not as good a basestealer and certainly not as good as baseball player as Rickey! He is called the GOAT for a reason! And btw, Tim Raines was even better than Vince Coleman!
Point one, you offer no factual evidence that Coleman was the faster runner, which was the title of your video.
Point two, when arguing that his rate of stolen bases to games is better, you are looking the at the entire career, which is unfair given how Coleman never had a 600 AB season past the age of 27, while Rickey had a number of them, and Coleman only played 100 or more games 4 games after his age 27 season, while Rickey had 13 such seasons. If you want to argue that in their prime seasons, Vince was a better runner, then make that case, do not skew your statistics by including years that Coleman wasn't good enough to play while Rickey was still helping teams even if he was aging and physically a couple of steps slower than his prime. Go through baseball history, does anyone think that Sandy Koufax might have had a lower career strikeout per 9 rate if he had kept playing until he was 44 years old than he does having retired at age 30?
Point three, the assertion that a slightly higher stolen base rate is proof that Coleman was a better runner, and as such the best in the history of baseball. Tim Raines stole more total bases, with a much better success rate, which under the terms of your argument makes him even better. Do we even need to get into the logistics of who was given more freedom to run, the guy hitting in front of Dawson and Carter, or the guy hitting in front of McGee and Herr in a ballpark that was tougher to score runs in?
In the end, your assertion may in fact be accurate, it is hard to say, but you certainly didn't provide conclusive proof to support your closing argument, nor evidence to suggest that the title of the video is anything but clickbait
There’s as much factual evidence that Vince Colman was faster as there is factual evidence that Rickey Henderson was a much better base runner. Anytime there was a distance that they had a clocking on them. Vince was faster home to first home the to second 60 yard dash 100 yard dash and to top it all off Vince Colman out ran Renaldo Nehemiah in the hundred twice. Ricky has never out ran anybody in the hundred. All that being said, Ricky was still a better base runner.
2:50 OUT!
Willie Mcgee was only a tenth of a second slower than Coleman in the 40
And where did you hear this at? They never raced and they never ran a 40 yard dash in their life at least Willy didn’t.
@@finnfinn7703 I know things kiddo
@@Yow_Wee Or you make them up. Willie McGee was never time do the 40 yard dash there would’ve been no reason for it. He stated he never ran a 40 yard dash.
@@finnfinn7703I was at ball park all the time in the 80s.. Friendly races were the norm. I even seen Lonnie Smith a half a step behind Vince. The day I seen Willie run out of his pants I heard them discussing it on KHTR on my way home. You can get lost with your BS.
Lets not forget when Ozzie tried to set up a heads up $5k race between the two. McGee wasnt up for it. And Whitey told Coleman “You should never race. Somebody would have to lose. This way, nobody will ever know. It will be a mystery.” Those who went to the park on the regular knew it would have been extremely close. Either way Willie was just happy there was more speed on the team and stated that a few times. I dont think its anything this other guy finnboy has to come across like an C**ks****r for.
I would place him in the top 5 base stealers of all time just barely, certainly not #1. 1) Rickey, 2) Brock 3) Ty Cobb 4) Billy Hamilton 5) Vince Coleman. Out of those 5 Coleman was by far the worst player overall.
Where is Raines? Success rate is maybe more important than total steals unless you have the sheer volume of Rickey.
@@wavedash101 Raines at 6. Much better player overall than Coleman was, and a smarter runner. I think coleman has the edge since he was able to hit triple digits multiple times. Lists like these are subjective though. Especially when including old timers like cobb and hamilton who were playing a very different game and against opposition that would be a modern junior college level.