the ones that genuinely annoy me are the ones that claim that shadow is fine in IDW, and everyone is just overreacting they recycle points about shadow technically never having friends and always being this way
@@hihi-nm3uy And then they also say "Penders character assassinated Shadow with his lawsuit" even though Shadow's flanderization in Flynn's Years Later Comics (Sonic Other M 2.0), Pontaff/Flynn's Meta Era, IDW comics in general and Man of Action's Sonic Prime have nothing to do with Penders. They're just using Ken Penders to hold Shadow back (beating a dead horse much?)
@@Aidel1011well that's just next level of hypocrisity and stupidity. How on Earth Ken case could even remotely affect Shadow? At least he wrote him ok(even if fanbase only wants to cry Shadow's chest fur was yellow)
I think the idea of Shadow being a zombot could have worked if it was executed differently. Here's how I would have written it. Shadow is a unique, one of a kind zombot due to his nature as the ultimate lifeform. Shadow is immortal and was literally created to be a cure to illnesses, so the idea of Shadow being affected by the virus the same way any ordinary person would be affected just does not make sense. So, I would write it so that Shadow is affectde by the virus in a unique way. At first, the virus does enter his body and infect him... but it's not strong enough to actually transform him into a zombot due to Shadow's immortality. There's no metal spreading across his body, he's not acting like some mindless zombie. And so, everyone, including Shadow, assumes that he's simply immune to the virus. But, as the story progresses, it turns out that the virus is still in Shadow's body, and overtime, the virus has mutated and evolved to find a different way to control Shadow. The virus wasn't strong enough to transform Shadow's body and control his body, so, the virus evolved to manipulate Shadow's mind instead. The virus collected in Shadow's brain, and evolved to manipulated Shadow's mind. The virus would manipulate Shadow's thoughts and make him want to infiltrate groups of survivors, betray them, and get them infected. The virus would find a new way to use Shadow to infect others. This would make Shadow the most dangerous type of zombot, a zombot with an intelligent mind and a healthy, non-infected looking appearance that allows him to blend in with uninfected survivors. And with his status as a world saving hero, it would be easy for Shadow to gain survivors' trust and make survivors follow his orders... only for him to lead them to their demise because, turns out, Shadow is one of the zombots. He just doesn't look like one, so, people blindly assume that he's trustworthy. Shadow's story could act like a parallel to Sonic's story, like how Shadow's character was originally designed to be a parallel to Sonic's character back in SA2. Sonic would be trying to save survivors while fighting against the virus taking over his body. And Shadow would be trying to save survivors while fighting against the virus taking over his mind. Overtime more and more of Sonic's body got covered in metalvirus. And overtime, it would become harder and harder for Shadow to keep control over his own thoughts and actions. And maybe Shadow's story could end with him sacrificing himself because he knows he's too much of a threat to other survivors, thus removing Shadow from the story in a way that doesn't feel completely out of character for him.
You have something there, it’s a workable concept, but you’re creating a few issues. I love writing, and understanding how everything works, so I’m going to judge your idea, but it’s all in good faith. I understand that your idea was set on fixing Shadow’s character, but everything that happens in a story has consequences and creates new scenarios, and you have to consider how other characters would react to this based on who they are. So the idea that Shadow is immune to Illness, very good idea, great to work off that as a jumping point when working on how Shadow will react to this virus. The very first thing you need to figure out is how did Shadow come to contact with his virus, who witnessed this, how do they feel about this, are they wanting to tell people in the resistance like “Hey, I saw Shadow fighting Zombots head on, he doesn’t SEEM to be infected, could he possibly even be used as cure, or is he even safe to be touched himself? For some examples of how characters would likely react; Both Sonic and Amy would most likely be the first people not okay with his, Sonic himself is infected by the virus, and both have personally seen how it transforms people. Tails would immediately want to investigate if he even hears a mention of Shadow getting infected. We can even say that nobody saw this, that’s valid, Shadow not telling anybody about his situation? That’s iffy. In order to find out that Shadow isn’t exactly infected, I would imagine he’d be the first to turn himself in to make sure he doesn’t accidentally affect people and make the situation worse. So it really matters how exactly everybody is told about Shadow’s situation. Now if you want something like the virus keeps mutating overtime, you’d have to find a way to allow the most pivotal people to give him the okay to be active on his own. And that would create even more conflict, especially if word gets out that Shadow is in fact infected and it was a secret being kept from everyone. I know that if I knew somebody was chilling with the Zombot virus, I wouldn’t feel comfortable having them around regardless of what it did to them, I don’t even want to accidentally touch them. You would also have a scenario where Shadow is willingly going to places and infecting people, and nobody is calling this anomaly in, or checking where Shadow’s been, and tracking the progression of the virus. You see how this sort of domino effect keeps getting worse naturally?
Can't wait for the Ian Flynn defence squad (JDFRANK20 an the sonamy channel) to go "wahh shadow in IDW is more accurate than he was in 06, IDW shadow good, archie shadow bad wahhhh" like i will never understand why they defend Ian Flynn with so much passion (maybe because he ships sonamy, i wouldn't be surpeised if that was the real reason)
I have no idea who that person is, but I’ll believe your take on them. Unfortunately, given how polarizing my opinions on Sonic can be, and how I frame my stances, those people will never interact with me because they would be afraid to argue with me. I’d be very surprised if another RUclipsr attempted to publicly go after me. It could ruin their reputation if I pose an unshakable take.
@@kotytangJDfrank20 is a RUclipsr who calls those who call IDW/prime non canon "haters" wich is a REALY WEAK defence, the sonamy channel is exactly what it sounds like it is, they act as if idw shadow is more accurate simply because "it's what sega wanted" and "shadow never liked to have friends" they are an Instagram account, so they are unlikely they will ever make a response, but JDfrank20 is crazy, if you don't ship sonamy? They make a rant video calling you a "nerd" If you don't like IDW he calls you... a "ken penders supporter" somehow... And if you want Sally back he goes "you need to get a life" these guys are obsesed with sonamy rly
@@shardsoftime0952 Checked out the channel, and their social media. It looks like they just cover anything and everything they can possibly find as long as it's Sonic related, just to force an upload a day. The grind works, he gets a ton of interaction. The biases in the things he's talking about are obviously ridiculous. The most call-out related thing I've seen in his videos is he'll show some random twitter comments or posts, and then show a bunch of comments from his friends that he agrees with. I still doubt he would get into any sort of public argument with me. I don't care about shipping arguments, ships are already a fantasy, but his ship reasons are laughable. I don't really expect much coherent reasoning from him or the fans that agree with him. I wouldn't be bothered by his fanbase's anger, if anything it would actually benefit me if he interacted with me, which he definitely wouldn't want.
@@kotytangJDFrank20 is taking the Marcel Buchaca, Paulandamy, Frank The Electric and Alpha Omega Tri route when it comes to interactions. Marcel would wanna murder you over an opinion about "non-canon" stuff related to Sonic (because he hates anything that is not canon to the games even if they are good), Paulandamy commited real life crimes over Amy Rose without any remorse nor empathy, Frank The Electric is also a toxic shipper like the other two I mentioned (Frank calls people 'homophobes' over an opinion about Tangle and Whisper) and Alpha Omega Tri is a GIF-spamming jerk who hates the term 'opinion', is a Flynn fanboy and he also defends the three other fanboys I mentioned.
Shadow is usually portrayed as being far more powerful than the cast, so it feels weird when I see him being treated as an insecure wreck who constantly needs to prove his superiority to Sonic.
It is as if Ian Flynn when writing Shadow is using Sonic 06 to hold him back. Flynn secretly thinks 06 Shadow is one of the "Worst versions of Shadow ever". Typical 06 Haters beating a dead horse
Ian Flynn bases this off Sega mandating his personality to be this way, which okay, even if I grant that being the case, it doesn't explain why Shadow in everything he's in is still a calculated and highly intelligent character. Yet when Ian Flynn writes him that isn't the case? So is he trying to say that he has a personally created Sega Mandate?
@@kotytang Nearly all of the so-called 'Mandates' according to Flynn are not real, excluding the "Sonic can't be too emotional" part which only applies to games and comics that are "canon to/exactly like the games" and the "Comics should be approved by Sega" mandate. Pontaff also violated the "mandates" by portraying Shadow the way they did in Sonic Forces, so Flynn has no excuse on that part
Shadow isn’t really portrayed as being FAR more powerful. He’s usually either equal to Sonic or slightly stronger. In Rivals it’s even said that Shadow considers Sonic his equal in every way
Honestly, IDW did him alright before and after the Metal Virus Arc but they did him so damn dirty during this arc. If he knew that the zombots weren’t meant to touched, why did he even do that? Yes, he’s the ultimate life form but that doesn’t mean bro’s invincible. I feel like before he got turned into a zombot, he should’ve at least taken off his inhibitor rings off to make him more faster to burn off the infection. But damn. I was starting to see hope for Volume 19. Shadow is a good character and all but he acts like he’s Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z.
Actually, no. Shadow wasn't respected at all in this dumb comic. He was punked by Sonic in Issue 6 with that whole bit about "If Eggman can't be forgiven, can you" BS. When Shadow brings up valid concerns about Eggman (despite the whole Tinker thing which we all KNEW was going to be undone), Sonic retorts with; "Heh, you tried to destroy me too, remember? You even tried to blow up the whole planet. So... what? You want me to take you out along with Eggman? After all, if he can't be forgiven, can you?" That's a real low blow by Sonic, and frankly by Ian Flynn. Shadow's actions were done out of grief and anger due to losing Maria. Eggman has no such issues. The doctor commits evil because it's fun to him. And Sonic knows this. Good lord, I detest this comic.
I wanna add something to the vid. I’m wondering why sonic cares about hurting the zombots when it’s shown that they will literally just reform if u hurt them
I don't think there's any instances of Sonic directly stating he cares about hurting the Zombots. They're an unstoppable force, no matter what Sonic does, they're just gonna keep coming back at him. I think it makes sense for Sonic to not go all out on every single group and instead just keep them back.
@@kotytang If I read it right, she manipulated the Chaotix into alerting Sonic to Mr. Tinker before Shadow specifically so Sonic would talk Shadow out of executing Tinker. If that's the case, Rouge shares some fault in the zombot pandemic.
The Cream Torture along with the Shadow Assassination really makes me dislike this comic. I couldn't get past this arc. Why is this arc considered the best i have no freaking clue
More like I'm speaking of how they just. Like "oh look how dark this is" by having her barley do anything and have consistently be traumatized for seemingly no reason. That's as best as I could describe myself if you want to have a discussion about how everyone is depicted we could
@@lazwardazure716 Discussion about writing is exactly what this channel is dedicated to, I’m willing to discuss for as long as you are, and about any character(s) you want. In Cream’s case would you say you’re disturbed by the act of writing her in these situations, or are you saying the situations themselves are out of place.
@@kotytang yes you can put it like that i think that's how i could put it myself. also I fully feel that this story should've stayed on the chopping block. It was originally meant for archie before it was canceled but got revived here.
I think the problem is that they take reference for Shadow in games that he has really done barely anything. They should take references for games from the Dark Age instead
@@kotytangWhen in reality, he pulls from his version of Years Later comics for Shadow, meaning the Shadow in IDW has the similar personality as his Years Later counterpart
That line about "cowards run" makes no sense at all when the person who is saying it is a hedgehog that can "run" really fast. It's like Amy saying "only idiots fight with hammers".
Seriously, people really think a company that didn't give a damn about the franchise until Frontiers' success has some strict mandates which resulted in mistakes people point out in the comics. And that's while they have movies which are what if Alvin & Chipmunks and Fast & Furious were one franchise and Prime where the whole world is Green Hill and Sonic is bl... a complete idiot. Yeah sure Sega does have mandates, also Bush did something funny.
@@solidusgadgetYep and regarding Shadow in IDW, it isn't even the 'mandates', it's Flynn and Stanley wanting to bring that stupid Sonic Other M webcomic and Flynn's overrated Years Later comics into IDW and Games
@kotytang It’s really a shame how low Shadow’s character has sunk. He was really good in SA2, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic 06. Everything else afterwards, yeesh😞 Maybe he should have just stayed a one time character. That way, he would’ve been fondly remembered as a great character rather than continuing on to become butchered. What do you think?
It always comes down to who the writers are in the end. Shadow was fine up until he was given this new persona in 2010. After the disaster that was the 2010 Pontac and Graff team, This new writing team seems to just want everybody to become a trope, and continue what Pontac and Graff started, so the stories must always meet a status quo. Sega needs to hire a new wave of actual good writers and focus on evolving this franchise to a more modern standard. A great writer can pull any character out of the dirt and save them, terrible writers will only bury them deeper.
@kotytang I totally agree with you. If I were in charge of the characters, I would do my best to make sure they are as close to their old selves as possible. For Sonic, Amy, Shadow and Robotnik, it would be their adventure Duology persona, for Rouge, it would be her SA2/Heroes persona and lastly for Knuckles, I would make him a combination of his SA2/S3K personas. He’d be a much more dynamic character. Additionally, rather than have Knuckles forcibly tricked for no good reason, I would have him trick others again like he used to. In S3K alone, he’s tricked 4 characters: Sonic, Tails, Egg Robo and Mecha Sonic. He was really sly back then. Let’s bring that back. Also I would bring back his interactions with Rouge from SA2. Back in that game, in all their cutscenes together, as well as their recaps and battle dialogues, Rouge was shown to be easily angered and annoyed with Knuckles whereas he kept his cool the whole time. Furthermore, Knuckles had witty comebacks for her and verbally outwitted her in most of their arguments. That’s how their dynamic should have remained. What do you think, good sir?
@@JakeLeonard-kb9sq Anytime Knuckles is tricked by the same people is dumb, so that’s a solid change by anyone. The only reason Knuckles was able to trick Sonic and Tails was because he was on Angel Island, he’d have a certain level of craftiness to him, but I doubt he’d be able to trick people very often outside of his home. I’m pretty sure it was actually the other way around with Rouge and Knuckles, Knuckles was the hot headed-quick to anger guy, while Rouge was playful and flirty toward him, she only gets worked up when it came to initially taking the Master Emerald. Knuckles definitely didn’t have any solid comebacks or even outwitted her in any instance in SA2. His entire thing was “Give me my emerald batgirl” and that was his best insult.
@kotytang It is a shame that Sega forcibly made Knuckles the gullible fool rather than improve upon his cunning so that he could get better at tricking others even outside his home. As for SA2, I watched their scenes together many times and I am certain that Rouge was definitely being easily angry whereas he kept calm. Rouge even freaked out and violently shook Knuckles for shattering the emerald while yelling “look what you did to my emerald!” In response, he calmly explained why he broke it whilst calling her an idiot and reminding her that it wasn’t hers. She had nothing to argue back with. Knuckles did indeed verbally own her with comebacks. Here are some examples: when Rouge called Robotnik thief, Knuckles calmly remarked “Look who’s calling who a thief”, Rouge said “long time no see treasure hunter, did you find my emerald? Knuckles gave his witty reply: That’s a good one. Your emerald. Talking to you is a waste of time. They both shout: Give me back my emerald! Rouge accused him of attacking a lady trying to shame him, Knuckles intelligently countered “What kind of lady goes around stealing gems anyway?” Rouge had nothing good to argue back with. Rouge really wasn’t flirty and playful in SA2, she was very argumentative most of the time. I think you’re conflating the two with their Sonic X counterparts. It’s a common mistake most fans make, I’m afraid, good sir. They did definitely have a playful relationship in Heroes, which I wished they kept doing. I’m just pointing out my observations. I mean no disrespect. Thanks for taking the time to have this discussion, sir.
@@JakeLeonard-kb9sq We must not be watching the same game then, because Knuckles was constantly angry every single interaction with Rouge up until she gives him the Emerald Shards back. As I said Rouge only gets truly angered in the initial interaction with the Master Emerald. Obviously if Rouge is trying to steal the Emerald, and she watches Knuckles destroy it there would be no reason for her to ever think he can just put it back together, that's why she was angry. Every interaction Rouge has with Knuckles afterward she's teasing him and purposely referring to the Emerald as hers, she calls him a thief purposely to get a rise out of him. You seem to be under the impression that Rouge is unaware that she's a jewel thief, and doesn't know that the Master Emerald doesn't actually belong to her. Every remark Knuckles gives back to Rouge is out of anger and is a defensive response. Rouge is pressing Knuckles's emotions purposely to get under his skin. Rouge has the upper hand in every conversation with Knuckles as she controls and dictates the anger that her next comment will bring him. There's a lot of underlying text that you pick up from Rouge when she talks to every member of the cast, not just Knuckles. She's often trying to get a rise out of everyone and fishing for the best thing to say. =========== What you said about Sonic X is simply not true, the love interest for Knuckles and Rouge is present, and is in fact, set up in SA2. Sonic X only amplified this love interest. Rouge is actually flirting with Knuckles by claiming he's a creep for just wanting to touch her after being saved by him. (obviously she's being sarcastic by saying he just wanted to hold her hand, etc.) After Knuckles leaves, she stops and smiles at him before rushing off. In their final interaction it's implied that she's starting to fall for Knuckles with her saying that she's got something better than jewels that she's thinking about right now. ===== Also don’t worry about offending me or having an opposite opinion of mine. In the end the only thing that matters is that what we’re saying is correct or not.
Even without the limits, they still do Shadow dirty. If you are familiar with Ian Flynn's Years Later comics published by Archie, you'd know that Ian Flynn would still portray Shadow like this even without limits or 'mandates'
I go into that in this video. Ian Flynn’s description of what he has to do with Shadow, directly contradicts the source for the comics inspiration; Sonic Forces, and Ian Flynn, when pressured on why he wrote Shadow like this, concedes that all Sega made him change was adding in the inhibitor rings.
@@kotytang Yep, Ian Flynn's portrayal of Shadow in every Sonic comic series he wrote is basically his desperate revival of his Sonic Other M webcomic, the one where nearly every Sonic character (except Other M Fiona Fox aka Payback Fox) is degraded into 1 Dimensional Jokes
@@kotytang What drew the line for me regarding Flynn's official work on Sonic is Evil Sonic turning into a terrible, Wannabe Russian Tyrant called Scourge the Gary Stu/Mary Sue. Also, Flynn shipping Evil Sonic with Fiona Fox, despite making no sense in terms of both personalities is a completely lazy writing and both represent the true downfall of Sonic Comics since 2006
This is why I don't like the IDW comics. Since SEGA has a tighter grip on IDW over the Archie comics, it feels like the writers given less freedom over what they present. Ian did pitched the idea for Shadow to burn off his infection by removing his inhibitor rings only for it to fell, but SEGA rejected the idea in favor for Shadow to behave like Vegeta during the Android Saga
@@SonicMania2099 It seems like you just commented without even watching the video. I completely debunk what you just said. The inhibitor rings vs Shadow’s personality isn’t even a valid argument. Sega never once said “Make Shadow Vegeta and get him infected.” The only thing Sega told Ian to do, as admitted by Ian, was not to use the inhibitor rings. Even if Shadow used his inhibitor rings this scene would STILL be out of character for Shadow. Ian has no idea how to write scenes for this character, and always meant to take him out by a weak infection scene like this, again, as admitted by himself, shown off in this video.
Actually, I stopped at Shadow being swarmed. Also, I still believe that SEGA called the shots about Shadow since SEGA again, has a tighter grip on IDW not wanting a repeat of Archie, and the fact SEGA wants IDW to be canon to the games even though they shouldn't. I may be a Sonic fan, but I hate Zombie Outbreak stories! And I'd rather this be filler to the games instead
@@SonicMania2099 I suggest watching atleast until after I’ve given the run down on how this situation went down according to Ian Flynn. Your statement is simply not true, if you want to remain in ignorance that’s entirely your decision, I’ve provided an ample amount of proof against your claim.
@@kotytang I just got done with the video and the only reason I'm ignorance is cause this is pretty me questioning Sonic from Archie to IDW and how characters are written between the two series is a bitter pill to swallow. Also, not even wanting to compare the writing to Forces given that unfinish mess of a story
what are you talking about, hes cool in the comics, have you not read urban warfare and he was fine in the early chapters as well. people need to stop hating for no reason just because they dont like it, just dont read it
Haven’t gotten that far yet, documenting my thoughts and reviewing as I go, at the moment. This is the Shadow I’m given. If my thoughts on Shadow change, you can witness it in real time. The interview with Ian Flynn I showed really puts a sour taste in my mouth though. It’s not hating for no reason, hating for no reason would mean that I just say it’s bad and say nothing else.
Here comes the IDW fangirls (Tumblr Refugees) trying to bring up 'mandates' to excuse Shadow's character assassination by IDW
Bring them all in. I got verbal ammo for each one.
the ones that genuinely annoy me are the ones that claim that shadow is fine in IDW, and everyone is just overreacting
they recycle points about shadow technically never having friends and always being this way
@@hihi-nm3uy And then they also say "Penders character assassinated Shadow with his lawsuit" even though Shadow's flanderization in Flynn's Years Later Comics (Sonic Other M 2.0), Pontaff/Flynn's Meta Era, IDW comics in general and Man of Action's Sonic Prime have nothing to do with Penders.
They're just using Ken Penders to hold Shadow back (beating a dead horse much?)
@@Aidel1011well that's just next level of hypocrisity and stupidity. How on Earth Ken case could even remotely affect Shadow? At least he wrote him ok(even if fanbase only wants to cry Shadow's chest fur was yellow)
They didn't assassinate anything
I think the idea of Shadow being a zombot could have worked if it was executed differently. Here's how I would have written it.
Shadow is a unique, one of a kind zombot due to his nature as the ultimate lifeform. Shadow is immortal and was literally created to be a cure to illnesses, so the idea of Shadow being affected by the virus the same way any ordinary person would be affected just does not make sense. So, I would write it so that Shadow is affectde by the virus in a unique way. At first, the virus does enter his body and infect him... but it's not strong enough to actually transform him into a zombot due to Shadow's immortality. There's no metal spreading across his body, he's not acting like some mindless zombie. And so, everyone, including Shadow, assumes that he's simply immune to the virus.
But, as the story progresses, it turns out that the virus is still in Shadow's body, and overtime, the virus has mutated and evolved to find a different way to control Shadow. The virus wasn't strong enough to transform Shadow's body and control his body, so, the virus evolved to manipulate Shadow's mind instead. The virus collected in Shadow's brain, and evolved to manipulated Shadow's mind. The virus would manipulate Shadow's thoughts and make him want to infiltrate groups of survivors, betray them, and get them infected. The virus would find a new way to use Shadow to infect others. This would make Shadow the most dangerous type of zombot, a zombot with an intelligent mind and a healthy, non-infected looking appearance that allows him to blend in with uninfected survivors. And with his status as a world saving hero, it would be easy for Shadow to gain survivors' trust and make survivors follow his orders... only for him to lead them to their demise because, turns out, Shadow is one of the zombots. He just doesn't look like one, so, people blindly assume that he's trustworthy.
Shadow's story could act like a parallel to Sonic's story, like how Shadow's character was originally designed to be a parallel to Sonic's character back in SA2. Sonic would be trying to save survivors while fighting against the virus taking over his body. And Shadow would be trying to save survivors while fighting against the virus taking over his mind. Overtime more and more of Sonic's body got covered in metalvirus. And overtime, it would become harder and harder for Shadow to keep control over his own thoughts and actions. And maybe Shadow's story could end with him sacrificing himself because he knows he's too much of a threat to other survivors, thus removing Shadow from the story in a way that doesn't feel completely out of character for him.
You have something there, it’s a workable concept, but you’re creating a few issues. I love writing, and understanding how everything works, so I’m going to judge your idea, but it’s all in good faith.
I understand that your idea was set on fixing Shadow’s character, but everything that happens in a story has consequences and creates new scenarios, and you have to consider how other characters would react to this based on who they are.
So the idea that Shadow is immune to Illness, very good idea, great to work off that as a jumping point when working on how Shadow will react to this virus. The very first thing you need to figure out is how did Shadow come to contact with his virus, who witnessed this, how do they feel about this, are they wanting to tell people in the resistance like “Hey, I saw Shadow fighting Zombots head on, he doesn’t SEEM to be infected, could he possibly even be used as cure, or is he even safe to be touched himself?
For some examples of how characters would likely react;
Both Sonic and Amy would most likely be the first people not okay with his, Sonic himself is infected by the virus, and both have personally seen how it transforms people.
Tails would immediately want to investigate if he even hears a mention of Shadow getting infected.
We can even say that nobody saw this, that’s valid, Shadow not telling anybody about his situation? That’s iffy. In order to find out that Shadow isn’t exactly infected, I would imagine he’d be the first to turn himself in to make sure he doesn’t accidentally affect people and make the situation worse.
So it really matters how exactly everybody is told about Shadow’s situation. Now if you want something like the virus keeps mutating overtime, you’d have to find a way to allow the most pivotal people to give him the okay to be active on his own. And that would create even more conflict, especially if word gets out that Shadow is in fact infected and it was a secret being kept from everyone. I know that if I knew somebody was chilling with the Zombot virus, I wouldn’t feel comfortable having them around regardless of what it did to them, I don’t even want to accidentally touch them.
You would also have a scenario where Shadow is willingly going to places and infecting people, and nobody is calling this anomaly in, or checking where Shadow’s been, and tracking the progression of the virus.
You see how this sort of domino effect keeps getting worse naturally?
Can't wait for the Ian Flynn defence squad (JDFRANK20 an the sonamy channel) to go "wahh shadow in IDW is more accurate than he was in 06, IDW shadow good, archie shadow bad wahhhh" like i will never understand why they defend Ian Flynn with so much passion (maybe because he ships sonamy, i wouldn't be surpeised if that was the real reason)
I have no idea who that person is, but I’ll believe your take on them.
Unfortunately, given how polarizing my opinions on Sonic can be, and how I frame my stances, those people will never interact with me because they would be afraid to argue with me. I’d be very surprised if another RUclipsr attempted to publicly go after me. It could ruin their reputation if I pose an unshakable take.
@@kotytangJDfrank20 is a RUclipsr who calls those who call IDW/prime non canon "haters" wich is a REALY WEAK defence, the sonamy channel is exactly what it sounds like it is, they act as if idw shadow is more accurate simply because "it's what sega wanted" and "shadow never liked to have friends" they are an Instagram account, so they are unlikely they will ever make a response, but JDfrank20 is crazy, if you don't ship sonamy? They make a rant video calling you a "nerd"
If you don't like IDW he calls you... a "ken penders supporter" somehow...
And if you want Sally back he goes "you need to get a life" these guys are obsesed with sonamy rly
@@shardsoftime0952 Checked out the channel, and their social media. It looks like they just cover anything and everything they can possibly find as long as it's Sonic related, just to force an upload a day. The grind works, he gets a ton of interaction. The biases in the things he's talking about are obviously ridiculous.
The most call-out related thing I've seen in his videos is he'll show some random twitter comments or posts, and then show a bunch of comments from his friends that he agrees with. I still doubt he would get into any sort of public argument with me. I don't care about shipping arguments, ships are already a fantasy, but his ship reasons are laughable.
I don't really expect much coherent reasoning from him or the fans that agree with him. I wouldn't be bothered by his fanbase's anger, if anything it would actually benefit me if he interacted with me, which he definitely wouldn't want.
@@kotytangJDFrank20 is taking the Marcel Buchaca, Paulandamy, Frank The Electric and Alpha Omega Tri route when it comes to interactions. Marcel would wanna murder you over an opinion about "non-canon" stuff related to Sonic (because he hates anything that is not canon to the games even if they are good), Paulandamy commited real life crimes over Amy Rose without any remorse nor empathy, Frank The Electric is also a toxic shipper like the other two I mentioned (Frank calls people 'homophobes' over an opinion about Tangle and Whisper) and Alpha Omega Tri is a GIF-spamming jerk who hates the term 'opinion', is a Flynn fanboy and he also defends the three other fanboys I mentioned.
@@Aidel1011marcel isn't a RUclipsr
Shadow is usually portrayed as being far more powerful than the cast, so it feels weird when I see him being treated as an insecure wreck who constantly needs to prove his superiority to Sonic.
It is as if Ian Flynn when writing Shadow is using Sonic 06 to hold him back. Flynn secretly thinks 06 Shadow is one of the "Worst versions of Shadow ever". Typical 06 Haters beating a dead horse
Ian Flynn bases this off Sega mandating his personality to be this way, which okay, even if I grant that being the case, it doesn't explain why Shadow in everything he's in is still a calculated and highly intelligent character. Yet when Ian Flynn writes him that isn't the case? So is he trying to say that he has a personally created Sega Mandate?
@@kotytang Nearly all of the so-called 'Mandates' according to Flynn are not real, excluding the "Sonic can't be too emotional" part which only applies to games and comics that are "canon to/exactly like the games" and the "Comics should be approved by Sega" mandate. Pontaff also violated the "mandates" by portraying Shadow the way they did in Sonic Forces, so Flynn has no excuse on that part
Shadow isn’t really portrayed as being FAR more powerful. He’s usually either equal to Sonic or slightly stronger. In Rivals it’s even said that Shadow considers Sonic his equal in every way
@@RealBroccoliHour
Yeah; it is an exaggeration on my part.
Honestly, IDW did him alright before and after the Metal Virus Arc but they did him so damn dirty during this arc. If he knew that the zombots weren’t meant to touched, why did he even do that? Yes, he’s the ultimate life form but that doesn’t mean bro’s invincible. I feel like before he got turned into a zombot, he should’ve at least taken off his inhibitor rings off to make him more faster to burn off the infection. But damn. I was starting to see hope for Volume 19. Shadow is a good character and all but he acts like he’s Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z.
Actually, no. Shadow wasn't respected at all in this dumb comic. He was punked by Sonic in Issue 6 with that whole bit about "If Eggman can't be forgiven, can you" BS.
When Shadow brings up valid concerns about Eggman (despite the whole Tinker thing which we all KNEW was going to be undone), Sonic retorts with;
"Heh, you tried to destroy me too, remember? You even tried to blow up the whole planet. So... what? You want me to take you out along with Eggman? After all, if he can't be forgiven, can you?"
That's a real low blow by Sonic, and frankly by Ian Flynn. Shadow's actions were done out of grief and anger due to losing Maria. Eggman has no such issues. The doctor commits evil because it's fun to him. And Sonic knows this.
Good lord, I detest this comic.
I wanna add something to the vid. I’m wondering why sonic cares about hurting the zombots when it’s shown that they will literally just reform if u hurt them
I don't think there's any instances of Sonic directly stating he cares about hurting the Zombots. They're an unstoppable force, no matter what Sonic does, they're just gonna keep coming back at him.
I think it makes sense for Sonic to not go all out on every single group and instead just keep them back.
Shadow is written very badly.
He seemed okay in issue 6, but his dialogue while fighting Neo Metal Sonic… that was the first red flag.
Can we talk about how nobody points out that Rouge is just as responsible as Sonic? Or am I wrong for thinking that?
Just as responsible as Sonic? Sure explain what you mean
@@kotytang If I read it right, she manipulated the Chaotix into alerting Sonic to Mr. Tinker before Shadow specifically so Sonic would talk Shadow out of executing Tinker. If that's the case, Rouge shares some fault in the zombot pandemic.
This video is based
Great video tho 👍
I appreciate it, glad to hear you enjoyed it!
8:35 same guy who says "I'm the coolest"
Lmao chill, he only did that once.
In the crap american translation
The Cream Torture along with the Shadow Assassination really makes me dislike this comic. I couldn't get past this arc. Why is this arc considered the best i have no freaking clue
I can understand the Shadow part, but I’m curious what part of the Cream “torture” did you not agree with?
More like I'm speaking of how they just. Like "oh look how dark this is" by having her barley do anything and have consistently be traumatized for seemingly no reason. That's as best as I could describe myself if you want to have a discussion about how everyone is depicted we could
@@lazwardazure716 Discussion about writing is exactly what this channel is dedicated to, I’m willing to discuss for as long as you are, and about any character(s) you want.
In Cream’s case would you say you’re disturbed by the act of writing her in these situations, or are you saying the situations themselves are out of place.
@@kotytang yes you can put it like that i think that's how i could put it myself. also I fully feel that this story should've stayed on the chopping block. It was originally meant for archie before it was canceled but got revived here.
@@lazwardazure716 Wouldn’t you agree that the point of the Cream moments were entirely to make you uncomfortable, and in that they properly succeeded?
I think the problem is that they take reference for Shadow in games that he has really done barely anything. They should take references for games from the Dark Age instead
Ian Flynn says he always pulls from Sonic 06 for Shadow.
He should pull from Shadow The Hedgehog.@@kotytang
@@MrRAGE-md5rj Lmao, which route of Shadow the Hedgehog.
@@kotytangThe canon route which is the Last story one
@@kotytangWhen in reality, he pulls from his version of Years Later comics for Shadow, meaning the Shadow in IDW has the similar personality as his Years Later counterpart
That line about "cowards run" makes no sense at all when the person who is saying it is a hedgehog that can "run" really fast. It's like Amy saying "only idiots fight with hammers".
I think it still makes sense for him to say. He means run as in runaway, not just running in general.
Dude i hope you will review the sonic movies
For sure! I have a plan to do just that as we approach the Third Movie’s release
Mandates are real but not for Sonic Team and other devs they work with, I see. At least in Japanese scripts, TSR is weird.
Seriously, people really think a company that didn't give a damn about the franchise until Frontiers' success has some strict mandates which resulted in mistakes people point out in the comics. And that's while they have movies which are what if Alvin & Chipmunks and Fast & Furious were one franchise and Prime where the whole world is Green Hill and Sonic is bl... a complete idiot. Yeah sure Sega does have mandates, also Bush did something funny.
@@solidusgadgetYep and regarding Shadow in IDW, it isn't even the 'mandates', it's Flynn and Stanley wanting to bring that stupid Sonic Other M webcomic and Flynn's overrated Years Later comics into IDW and Games
@kotytang It’s really a shame how low Shadow’s character has sunk. He was really good in SA2, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic 06. Everything else afterwards, yeesh😞 Maybe he should have just stayed a one time character. That way, he would’ve been fondly remembered as a great character rather than continuing on to become butchered. What do you think?
It always comes down to who the writers are in the end. Shadow was fine up until he was given this new persona in 2010.
After the disaster that was the 2010 Pontac and Graff team, This new writing team seems to just want everybody to become a trope, and continue what Pontac and Graff started, so the stories must always meet a status quo.
Sega needs to hire a new wave of actual good writers and focus on evolving this franchise to a more modern standard.
A great writer can pull any character out of the dirt and save them, terrible writers will only bury them deeper.
@kotytang I totally agree with you. If I were in charge of the characters, I would do my best to make sure they are as close to their old selves as possible. For Sonic, Amy, Shadow and Robotnik, it would be their adventure Duology persona, for Rouge, it would be her SA2/Heroes persona and lastly for Knuckles, I would make him a combination of his SA2/S3K personas. He’d be a much more dynamic character. Additionally, rather than have Knuckles forcibly tricked for no good reason, I would have him trick others again like he used to. In S3K alone, he’s tricked 4 characters: Sonic, Tails, Egg Robo and Mecha Sonic. He was really sly back then. Let’s bring that back. Also I would bring back his interactions with Rouge from SA2. Back in that game, in all their cutscenes together, as well as their recaps and battle dialogues, Rouge was shown to be easily angered and annoyed with Knuckles whereas he kept his cool the whole time. Furthermore, Knuckles had witty comebacks for her and verbally outwitted her in most of their arguments. That’s how their dynamic should have remained. What do you think, good sir?
@@JakeLeonard-kb9sq Anytime Knuckles is tricked by the same people is dumb, so that’s a solid change by anyone.
The only reason Knuckles was able to trick Sonic and Tails was because he was on Angel Island, he’d have a certain level of craftiness to him, but I doubt he’d be able to trick people very often outside of his home.
I’m pretty sure it was actually the other way around with Rouge and Knuckles, Knuckles was the hot headed-quick to anger guy, while Rouge was playful and flirty toward him, she only gets worked up when it came to initially taking the Master Emerald.
Knuckles definitely didn’t have any solid comebacks or even outwitted her in any instance in SA2. His entire thing was “Give me my emerald batgirl” and that was his best insult.
@kotytang It is a shame that Sega forcibly made Knuckles the gullible fool rather than improve upon his cunning so that he could get better at tricking others even outside his home. As for SA2, I watched their scenes together many times and I am certain that Rouge was definitely being easily angry whereas he kept calm. Rouge even freaked out and violently shook Knuckles for shattering the emerald while yelling “look what you did to my emerald!” In response, he calmly explained why he broke it whilst calling her an idiot and reminding her that it wasn’t hers. She had nothing to argue back with. Knuckles did indeed verbally own her with comebacks. Here are some examples: when Rouge called Robotnik thief, Knuckles calmly remarked “Look who’s calling who a thief”, Rouge said “long time no see treasure hunter, did you find my emerald? Knuckles gave his witty reply: That’s a good one. Your emerald. Talking to you is a waste of time. They both shout: Give me back my emerald! Rouge accused him of attacking a lady trying to shame him, Knuckles intelligently countered “What kind of lady goes around stealing gems anyway?” Rouge had nothing good to argue back with. Rouge really wasn’t flirty and playful in SA2, she was very argumentative most of the time. I think you’re conflating the two with their Sonic X counterparts. It’s a common mistake most fans make, I’m afraid, good sir. They did definitely have a playful relationship in Heroes, which I wished they kept doing. I’m just pointing out my observations. I mean no disrespect. Thanks for taking the time to have this discussion, sir.
@@JakeLeonard-kb9sq We must not be watching the same game then, because Knuckles was constantly angry every single interaction with Rouge up until she gives him the Emerald Shards back.
As I said Rouge only gets truly angered in the initial interaction with the Master Emerald. Obviously if Rouge is trying to steal the Emerald, and she watches Knuckles destroy it there would be no reason for her to ever think he can just put it back together, that's why she was angry.
Every interaction Rouge has with Knuckles afterward she's teasing him and purposely referring to the Emerald as hers, she calls him a thief purposely to get a rise out of him.
You seem to be under the impression that Rouge is unaware that she's a jewel thief, and doesn't know that the Master Emerald doesn't actually belong to her. Every remark Knuckles gives back to Rouge is out of anger and is a defensive response. Rouge is pressing Knuckles's emotions purposely to get under his skin. Rouge has the upper hand in every conversation with Knuckles as she controls and dictates the anger that her next comment will bring him.
There's a lot of underlying text that you pick up from Rouge when she talks to every member of the cast, not just Knuckles. She's often trying to get a rise out of everyone and fishing for the best thing to say.
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What you said about Sonic X is simply not true, the love interest for Knuckles and Rouge is present, and is in fact, set up in SA2. Sonic X only amplified this love interest. Rouge is actually flirting with Knuckles by claiming he's a creep for just wanting to touch her after being saved by him. (obviously she's being sarcastic by saying he just wanted to hold her hand, etc.) After Knuckles leaves, she stops and smiles at him before rushing off. In their final interaction it's implied that she's starting to fall for Knuckles with her saying that she's got something better than jewels that she's thinking about right now.
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Also don’t worry about offending me or having an opposite opinion of mine. In the end the only thing that matters is that what we’re saying is correct or not.
It's very noted that the writers doesn't know how characterize shadow with the limits put by sega
Even without the limits, they still do Shadow dirty. If you are familiar with Ian Flynn's Years Later comics published by Archie, you'd know that Ian Flynn would still portray Shadow like this even without limits or 'mandates'
I go into that in this video. Ian Flynn’s description of what he has to do with Shadow, directly contradicts the source for the comics inspiration; Sonic Forces, and Ian Flynn, when pressured on why he wrote Shadow like this, concedes that all Sega made him change was adding in the inhibitor rings.
@@kotytang Yep, Ian Flynn's portrayal of Shadow in every Sonic comic series he wrote is basically his desperate revival of his Sonic Other M webcomic, the one where nearly every Sonic character (except Other M Fiona Fox aka Payback Fox) is degraded into 1 Dimensional Jokes
@@Aidel1011 l was meaning about characterize well to shadow
@@kotytang What drew the line for me regarding Flynn's official work on Sonic is Evil Sonic turning into a terrible, Wannabe Russian Tyrant called Scourge the Gary Stu/Mary Sue. Also, Flynn shipping Evil Sonic with Fiona Fox, despite making no sense in terms of both personalities is a completely lazy writing and both represent the true downfall of Sonic Comics since 2006
This is why I don't like the IDW comics. Since SEGA has a tighter grip on IDW over the Archie comics, it feels like the writers given less freedom over what they present. Ian did pitched the idea for Shadow to burn off his infection by removing his inhibitor rings only for it to fell, but SEGA rejected the idea in favor for Shadow to behave like Vegeta during the Android Saga
@@SonicMania2099 It seems like you just commented without even watching the video. I completely debunk what you just said.
The inhibitor rings vs Shadow’s personality isn’t even a valid argument. Sega never once said “Make Shadow Vegeta and get him infected.” The only thing Sega told Ian to do, as admitted by Ian, was not to use the inhibitor rings.
Even if Shadow used his inhibitor rings this scene would STILL be out of character for Shadow. Ian has no idea how to write scenes for this character, and always meant to take him out by a weak infection scene like this, again, as admitted by himself, shown off in this video.
Actually, I stopped at Shadow being swarmed. Also, I still believe that SEGA called the shots about Shadow since SEGA again, has a tighter grip on IDW not wanting a repeat of Archie, and the fact SEGA wants IDW to be canon to the games even though they shouldn't. I may be a Sonic fan, but I hate Zombie Outbreak stories! And I'd rather this be filler to the games instead
@@SonicMania2099 I suggest watching atleast until after I’ve given the run down on how this situation went down according to Ian Flynn.
Your statement is simply not true, if you want to remain in ignorance that’s entirely your decision, I’ve provided an ample amount of proof against your claim.
@@kotytang I just got done with the video and the only reason I'm ignorance is cause this is pretty me questioning Sonic from Archie to IDW and how characters are written between the two series is a bitter pill to swallow. Also, not even wanting to compare the writing to Forces given that unfinish mess of a story
Not IDW, but SEGA, they've put way too many rules to abide by
I go over that in the video.
Flynn would write Shadow this way even without those rules. Just look at his Years Later comics (King Shadow Controversy).
@@Aidel1011king shadow wasn't canon tho
@@shardsoftime0952Yep but that is still where Flynn bases IDW Shadow on anyways.
@@Aidel1011 maybe, but the shadow in the canon universe was written pretty well.
I don’t have the energy to defend of attack these claims
I’ll gladly debate with you any time you find that energy.
@@kotytang well, thanks for the offer.
Hey it is not their fault it is the SEGA mandates that keep them from writing him correctly
They don’t follow a vast majority of these “mandates” I’m pretty sure most of them are made up.
what are you talking about, hes cool in the comics, have you not read urban warfare and he was fine in the early chapters as well. people need to stop hating for no reason just because they dont like it, just dont read it
Haven’t gotten that far yet, documenting my thoughts and reviewing as I go, at the moment.
This is the Shadow I’m given. If my thoughts on Shadow change, you can witness it in real time.
The interview with Ian Flynn I showed really puts a sour taste in my mouth though.
It’s not hating for no reason, hating for no reason would mean that I just say it’s bad and say nothing else.
Wow, Shadow gets trapped in a cuck cage for the whole story and then boom.