Hey I am having a big VR community meetup this weekend! Join my discord for coordination details. I was going to include it in this video but the vid was already 16 minutes, didn't want to break the pace. SO! Join up if you're interested! I'll be there and I'll see you in cyberspace : Discord.gg/thrill
best vr headset? u ironic? cos what i saw it is just watch movies or having conference or multitasking work projects in vr headset like u said it dont even have any controllers or anything that scream vr gaming headset. at stupid 3500 price point lol its an DOA product
@MannyAnims it's specs don't matter if you can't do anything with the damn thing. It's like getting a beast of a gaming pc that can only use a mouse and no keyboard
I hope they set up stations to try it out at Apple stores. Because I won’t be dropping $3500 for a headset anytime soon. But I really wanna see how nice the visuals are with that many pixels per eye.
I have seen testers at wwdc make videos saying this will be a thing. Interesting enough, apparently the face gasket is custom fitted like the big screen beyond and when you order one at the apple store u you a tester unit to scan your face for a perfect fit. I have not seen it said how long it will take to deliver the headset though after you order it in store.
After seeing the pricing of apples headset I’m more excited for the quest 3. I think having Apple involved in the industry will bring much more attention to other more affordable brands. Especially once people start trying them in-store!
Yeah, it's really cool, but I feel like it's the gamers that have been keeping VR afloat. With basically no attention to gaming at all, I'm curious how much it'll sell to the casual/productivity crowds. I'd guess it actually has a better GPU than the Quest 3 will have, but we'll see what kind of support it gets from developers.
@@SirSethery gamers have been keeping VR afloat but that doesnt mean they owe us anything unfortunately, especially apple being a new entrant in the XR space. i assume they intentionally are distancing this headset from the gaming VR space so as to position vision pro in consumers minds as something else entirely (which it mostly is). they know gamers are the ones who want new hardware the most but they arent trying to please gamers theyre trying to introduce XR tech to an entirely new market (the average consumer). that market has not been attracted to the gaming vr space whatsoever thus far. what they will be attracted to however is literally anything apple
@@SirSethery it definitely be a hard sell at that price especially since it seems quite big and is a new OS. hopefully it gains the ability to connect to computers and phones than id say it would be worth it. also the size would be hard as productivity people would need to wear it constantly
The announcement of Quest 3 is also quite tiresome. We knew what was coming, so why bother with already outdated things when Apple tried something new in life. ^^ And after 7 years the time has come.
@@DragonhengWhile you play flatscreen games for $3500,- I will play real VR games with controllers for $500,- Personally, I was not impressed with Apples skimask. Not at that pricetag.
@@NoX-512 I don't want to say that I'm willing to pay that much for a product, but you heard about the Quest 3 before it was even presented what it could do. Personally, I'm not a fan of Apple or Meta either, so I'm not even willing to pay the price of the quest, no matter what it can do. But at least the cats have been let out of the bag now. It is also important that companies like Apple expand the market with their bad premium concept.
@@Dragonheng Not a big fan of Meta and Apple either. The only reason I have Quest is because I don't want to buy a gaming PC just for VR. I'm just a casual VR gamer. If HTC can figure out how to make a good standalone, I will switch. Right now, Quest is the only real option. Quest 2 is fine, Quest 3 will be finer 😂
@@NoX-512 Of course that's different. Even though I'm not a fan of Meta, I find the Quest to be a good VR headset for its price with a bad reputation because 2/3 of the users are children who use them unsupervised and scream around. Next to me is a 5k machine that will continue to work as a self-made server at the end of its life as a game computer. Like the last ones, the graphics card will probably only serve as a device for troubleshooting, although it's too big for something like that. 30series problem. I wouldn't buy a computer either, but I use several for it, besides the games, for creative and self hosting applications. And if you don't keep an eye on the costs, it's always fun to build one. My index has been alive for a good 4 years now and now has a dead pixel but it still works.
I’m absolutely stoked to see all these announcements. As a guy running a Quest 1 and a laptop with a gtx 1060, it’s really interesting seeing where the industry is going with advancements while I’m low key content in my slightly lower spec corner. I’m seriously hoping that with all these different players in the XR market, us as consumers can get absolutely amazing stuff out of the competition that’ll be coming.
@@JasonEisenberg81as someone with a similar setup (quest 1 with gtx 1050ti) , i can say im perfectly happy not being able to play quest 2 games since pcvr more than makes up for it
Hardly. A good laptop can get well over 10 hours on battery power. This can't even get 3 hours worth. It's also not THAT light. For a couple hours of fun, yes - for a full days wroth of work 5 days a week, no. VR optics and various other factors need another few years of development before you could use it for serious work all year around. Also the Apple headset lacks hardware varifocal optics - definitely a no go for anything but casual usage. I don't put stock in Meta's output because at the end of the day it's Facebook undernearth, but I do think that they will easily beat Apple to the top of that particular hill - they have a roadmap, and most importantly they have a reasonable price in mind to drive market adoption. This won't drive adoption - it's an expensive toy that few would be able to afford even prior to post COVID, Brexit and Ukraine war economic impacts, but these days it's truly a ridiculous price tag for a company more than capable of tanking a subsidized new market segment opener like this. Long point short - their insane profits on other products could easily subsidize this to a more reasonable cost. They just don't because they are Apple.
@@mnomadvfx i mean you said it yourself, it just needs a few years of development. Anyway the M2 chip in the headset (and MacBook) are still leaps and bounds ahead of most competitors. If it really wanted to, it could be a very high end, standalone gaming headset.
most people use their laptops wired to the wall during most of their work days, no reason you cant do that with the headset + as trinity said it is really just a matter of time. I'm talking about long-term positioning, not the current capabilities of the headset.
@@mnomadvfx How much battery life did the first Apple Macbook have? 5 hours. How much does a Macbook have today? 20 hours What is the smallest bag this can fit in? A medium ladies carry bag What is the smallest bag an Ultrabook/Macbook can fit in? A proper backpack or a laptop carrying sleeve. What size of screen does a Macbook offer in above case? 15 inch What size of screen does this and it's future iterations will offer? Technically infinite. But realistically 60 inch
@@mnomadvfx Apple is making like 50% margin on all their devices(still high for computer hardware). If we assume this product is the same, it would cost 2000ish dollars if they sold at a cost....Do you really think 2000 dollars will drive mainstream adoption? Usually, when a company like Meta takes a loss or sells the products at cost it's because: A: The price is low enough that they can push LOTS of units B: They have LOTS of software they can sell with no cost through a store C: They're trying to break into a crowded space and steal market share Usually all of the above. Even if Apple took a loss this would still be a premium product, apple has little to no Day 1 software to sell, and with this price tag, spec sheet, and lack of controllers. They just aren't competing with other headsets anyway.
Nah... We need highend productivity hardware and software being designed specifically for it... We shouldn't have resources split in between gaming and productivity... also you would have to add cuda cores and tensor.... it would cost like 10K at that point and weigh 20 pounds... This already requires a wired battery for "wireless functionality."
@@KennyCutz idk about that stuff, but if the headset was designed for gaming too they’d probably have figured out a way around this problems. Again, I don’t know anything about how it works, I could be saying smth stupid.
This headset would be a niche within a niche. The VR gamer sector is already small, making games for a 3500$ isn't the smartest idea. I doubt any studio will make a game for it, unless existing games that use steamVR or UE4/5 with the VR injector, and knowing apple, I doubt that will happen...
Man VR is really taking off. So much I almost can't keep up. Still big screen beyond for me but the spacial computer aspect of apple is super interesting.
this is more XR focused, with a heeavvvyy emphasis on AR. Don't expect VR gaming on this unless ggodin can somehow figure out a way to make hand tracking to controller emulation that doesn't suck for Virtual Desktop
IDK why people think this week was a win, it was a total bust. Apple's headset will fail, VR is for gamers and enterprise. I don't know anyone willing to use a VR headset as a laptop, the investors are going to lose, and bad, and we as enthusiasts will be the ones to pay.
Yes. $3500 for a headset that has zero gaming plans that have been announced. Just to point it out to all the idiots out there saying it’s not supposed to be a gaming headset. So. If Apple is boastful that is is going to be the “Best VR headset in the world”, how will it overcome the fair amount of competition that have only been successful in gaming? VR, in general, has only seen any real and marketable success in gaming. I don’t see how it’s possible to go in with any chances of success without any concrete plans for it at all. Get your heads out of your asses
@@UnknownDino i run foveated rendering on msfs2020 with the varjo vr3. It is good for about 5-10 fps, from 40 to 45 fps or so. There may be more efficient techniques, but it's not going to change things dramatically. You can't make up the difference from the M2 to a 4090
This is such a great video and such a great take on the Vision Pro, awesome stuff Thrill! Overall, I feel like this is a massive W for the industry and I'm super excited to see how the next few months and years progress. Have just put in an order for the Beyond as it is just such an insane, unique device and an upgrade in every metric over my decrepit Cosmos Elite!
Great review, been catching a few and I know your more focused on gaming, but this could be the game changer that the office space needs to bring AR/VR into life.
Yep totally agree. Apple investing in XR and trying to find more daily use /mainstream use cases will hopefully push software development forward so that as the prices and sizes hopefully come down there will be a decent infrastructure for all types of users. It’s now or never. With AI developments software dev has changed immeasurably this year alone, it should hopefully speed things up.
@@shadowmann9 Yup...they used to be, with the IPod and first IPhone. But once they were established in the market they started just doing what others were doing, putting it in their "fancy" apple coat, and calling it "new". Airpods for instance. Wireless bluetooth buds had already been a thing for a few years at that point, but Apple was lauded as such an innovator for "their idea". Yea right...
@@sodacan2594 The price of iPhones absolutely came way down, it may not feel like it, but adjusted for inflation. The original iPhone was over $700 adjusted for inflation. And that was with a carrier subsidizing plan. Meaning you’re paying more for the plan to help subsidize the cost of the phone over two years which brings it over a thousand in today's money accounting for that additional cost to the plan.
I actually thought the same thing about VARIO, but, as obsessed as I am with vr, I can't afford 3.5k for a headset. It doesn't help that it can't connect to steam vr. That said, this headset is literally everything I've ever wanted for AR, that I didn't think I'd see for another 10 to 20 years.
It's not a competitor to the vr3/xr3. It doesn't replace those at all. It's not even as sharp, and completely lacks app support for industry This is a general consumer device
@@Tom--Ace EXACTLY its not for enterprise, and its really not for average consumers either, this headset is gonna fail, and hard, and even more hardware & software developers will avoid VR because THEY KEEP ON INVESTING IN THE DAMN WRONG THING. VR IS FOR GAMERS. Its not a laptop, or a portal to alternate universe or whatever the f*** dumb hype s*** these companies keep trying to push. Social VR is cool, but most people will avoid it, because, well real life exists. We need a good, low to mid budget, high res PC VR headset (that doesn't need base stations, sorry Big Screen but ya done goofed) and another smash hit like Half-Life Alyx with stunning graphics. There are waaaay more capable VR gaming PC's on the market than when Alyx came out considering it was the 10 series back then. 3 Generations of GPU's, DLSS, Ray-tracing, all this new tech, and nothing to use it with in a headset. Its trash, and I'm sick of the VR industry being so misguided when its so obvious what it needs to succeed.
@@plav032 speak for yourself, You're speaking from a poors point of view. they can't afford and shoud not. This is going to be huge and apple didn't advertise it to gamers but general public, It can replace a lot of things like monitor, sound system and you can get a unique experience, Normal people not into gaming won't buy a vr and build a computer and get on to the internet to see which game shoudl they play and all the conneting that it needs but if you buy vision pro you can just use it immediately. It's not going to fail also it;s not for poor peasants
@@plav032 So we're just gonna ignore how expensive said graphics cards are? It's easier to target a older gen hardware than it is a 3080 for the main reason of the damn price of one. Also, inside out tracking and low cost don't exactly mix, Base Stations are a cost effective ( and accurate ) method of tracking without having to steal processing power to track the headset, or embed a mini compute device inside for tracking, which gets expensive fast
Hey thrill seeker, thank you so much for making content! You’re my main vr RUclipsr and I love how you explain the potential effects of hardware/software releases on the industry. It’s such an exciting time to be alive and I cannot wait to see how this technology could potentially effect our daily lives! My favorite videos that you post are the ones showing off the latest high-resolution / fov headsets and analyzing how be technology may evolve in the future.
Interesting take comparing it to the Varjo. As a VR Dev working with the Varjo I have to say it's tempting but I also must say that I am very sceptical that the Vision pro can support those high end experiences with only an M2 chip. The Varjo is always paired with the fastest GPU u can buy (right now a 4090) and I have to say even that amount of power is a stretch from what our professional clients expect out of the experiences when develop. So as long as I cannot stream/send VR from a extremely powerful source I don't see this as a replacement unfortunately. Really unfortunately... Because the Varjo is a pain in the a** to work with
I think that is exactly why Apple isn’t marketing it as a VR headset. As a fellow dev, I think we haven’t seen close to the end of Apple’s ingenuity with microchip design especially on the graphics side. I expect they will spend some effort on creating ridiculous graphics (sub)chips for future headsets and their ARM line. Not ridiculous as in beating Nvidia in performance at any point, but rather competing with last gen but using a fraction of the power. That would then be the time a Vision SE headset gets marketed including VR.
Great video Thrill! Love the channel as always. A few things to note about the Apple Vision Pro revealed through WWDC developer videos: - The headset has full support for the Unity engine to bring fully immersive complete VR games/experiences - And, since many (if not most) of existing VR games were developed in Unity, they can almost instantly be ported across to the Vision Pro with the new dev tools from the Apple-Unity partnership - so there is a huge incentive for Unity developers to bring their VR games across (great candidates include Hand Physics Lab etc) - The headset can support not just bluetooth keyboards and game controllers but it has been revealed that it supports tracked controllers too - The first officially-developed or at least officially sanctioned full VR immersive experience is Rec Room - and it's completely controlled by hand tracking as of now. There is gameplay footage available of Rec Room VR on the Vision Pro already. Fruit Ninja and other games were also shown in the Vision Pro's AppStore - The headset has a frame rate of 90Hz and has a special 96Hz mode to support displaying cinematic 24fps content. There is no word as to whether the panels support 120Hz a-la-quest 2, but this should be revealed soon - Games coded in Apple's languages and frameworks as well as the Unity Engine can take full skeletal hand tracking inputs after asking the user for permission - this makes the hand tracking so much more powerful than pinch to select etc, as it can now be used for completely custom control experiences Note: the Vision Pro is honestly poised to be huge for the gaming space. Not only because every iPad or iPhone game ever is already instantly supported and able to be played on a super massive theatre screen but also because Unity is ready to rock and roll with full immersive experiences! Hopefully these are some interesting points you might find helpful? Idk! Can't wait to see more content about this stuff from you soon!
Gotta say I laughed out loud when I saw the eye display on the front of the Apple unit. I just can't imagine not secretly laughing at the first person I see wearing this in public.
when the Quest 3 is released, I might wait a month or two to see the reviews and everything about it before I choose to upgrade from my current headset, the Rift S. I was one of the only ones to skip on the Quest 2 upgrade, and by the time I had money to make the jump, I decided to commit until a newer headset starts being shipped out from them, and I'm glad the wait was worth it, looking forward to what the Quest 3 has to offer 👍
As someone who has a rift s and a quest 2, I can say that the wireless aspect made the q2 worth it for me, and a game changer, though the built in home on q2 sucked when compared to the PC home, which I guess is now gone anyways. :(
same situation as myself lol I considered upgrading last year but decided not to between the rumours of the quest 3 and wanting to keep away from using a battery run headset for now, but if the reviews are good I might finally say goodbye to my rift s
I’m super interested in what apple will allow people to do with the headset. One thing I wish you would have touched on some more is the exclusive apple only experiences that sound like they are going to come to apples headset. Stuff like the nba and Disney partnership. Additionally wwdc had hugeeee gaming announcements it looks like apple IS pivoting some of its resources to gaming and I would be shocked if that was not at all part of this headset
What I’m still curious about is how open the operating system will be Like we know now that it’ll be more open than an iPhone but we’re still on the fence like “is this a face mounted iPad where we’re still locked to what’s on the App Store or is this a face mounted mac where you can download more or less whatever you want, or maybe somewhere in between
Strong chance that Apple will develop their own game studio. This will be a similar to Apple TV+ where they work with the most talented people in the game industry and applies their massive war chest to create unique high-quality games. Additionally they've already started acquiring rights to sports leagues. This will give them the ability to produce the highest-quality 3D sports watching experience of anyone. That will further entice other leagues to sell their rights to Apple. They will do the same with concerts given their contacts with musicians through Apple Music. These 3 items games, sports, and concerts will be offered worldwide and be among the most important magnets to draw customers to Vision Pro and follow-on products.
Apple made this for people to sit in front of their Mac to have it pop up in the display. Kid you not, it's in their footage, they think people are mindless chickens.
Will developers really start porting games to apple’s OS just because of the upgrades to Metal? Seems like apple is pretty hostile to gaming devs, but maybe that’s changing!
What apple will allow people to do with the headset? It's Apple, they showed literally anything you will be allowed to do with "your" headset in presentation.
Thrillseeker, your videos are probably the biggest reason I use my oculus quest two. I find it simply irresistible- once your video starts- to resist the urge to play. And for this my man, I thank you! I am sure there are many of us in the world who feel the same way. Big love, don’t stop keeping us in the know and thank you!
Man you hit the nail on the head! 100% agree with your explanation of this new device. So 3xciting to see Where XR progresses from this point onwards!!
Hands down the best overview I've seen of the Vision Pro. Everyone is just harping on the cost and lack of gaming but you very astutely called out that: content will be driven by the developers. Let's see what they can come up with before we judge!
When it comes to gaming, content is always driven by the users. This machine will need to sell in the console numbers (millions of units) before developers find it economical to produce games for it. But if it only sells in the thousands numbers, you just can't make your money back (as a gaming company). It costs lots of money to make a good game, you want potentially millions of buyers available, not just a few thousands. Having said that, this looks like a great piece of hardware aimed at businesses and the like. I can imagine this being used during on-line meetings and conferences a lot. As a business connection unit, this is great. and if Apple plays it cards well, they will corner the business connectivity market rather well. But it is NOT aimed at the gaming market.
@@atriusvinius319 Given the fidelity of the sensors on their beast (they can superimpose not only your whole hand in what you see but your whole arm as well) I bet once the software catches up you can replicate controller actions with individual finger motions or hand gestures sort of like what the deaf use).
@@madmotorcyclist You need to hold something in your hand( a pistol a rifle or a sword) to be more immersed. And their sensors will always be inconsistent\buggy. Ideal hand-tracking is impossible at the moment and in the near future. This device is not for games
@@atriusvinius319 Your statement about the sensors is just supposition and an opinion. This is first gen and what limits them now is software which will be coming. Already they can digitally model a whole hand and arm in view it will only take more software to add modeling whatever you hold in that hand to be available for interaction.
Great presentation. I agree with what you had to say about the Vision Pro setting a benchmark without competing. Very excited about the future of XR, AI, and the things and experiences that people create with and for these new technologies!!! Especially looking forward to peoples reviews on using the Vision Pro as a workstation and along side their other Apple gear to create things and develop with.
I was just starting the video and in your intro song there's the sound for an index controller power down.. and I panicked, looking around thinking I left one of mine on and the battery had died... LOL.. Well done.
as someone who watched this event live at the SadlyItsBradley event for this headset, it seemed like kind of a let down for me and most of the people there I talked to about it. But this was actually a really interesting tale on it and definitely changed my perspective on a headset I saw as being for no one
I would say this headset is just basically apple saying to developers: "look this is the hardware we can do with current technology, now develop apps for it" hence why it was revealed it at wwdc
To me, it's wild that just 5 months ago I got a quest 2 and was finally able to properly enjoy VR. Previously I had a cool demo with a WMR headset, a friend let me play on his PSVR, but now I could finally just put a headset on, and use it, for as long as I wanted whenever I wanted.
I think external batteries was the way to go from the beginning. Less weight on the headset, I only see it as a win. Idk way people want heavy batteries on their head.
i think more competition is always a good thing, and I am curious if there is going to be any effort to make a "emulator" to convert controller based VR games to hand tracked versions
At this point it doesn’t seem like Apple has full hand tracking built in other than their gestures. That’s the problem according to a lot of the media outlets that called the headset “magical” they also said a lot of it seems half baked especially things like the tracking.
well apple now has a fully gaming sdk and conversion process .. it would be easy for them to make that easy. They are starting to push gaming.. with metal 3 and this new game dev track.
Most important thing to keep in mind is this is literally a Gen-1 headset. The smart thing to do is to wait for the next generations once these are initially adopted so they have a bunch of people testing the hardware on a massive scale.
Most types of VR games will not be much fun with hand tracking. Just like touch is far from ideal in many types of games. It reminds me of the time when Apple tried to kill the mouse with iPad, only to realize several years later that they were wrong.
Honestly Apple will probably add native VR controller support. I'm sure their enterprise customers & developers will want it. Plus I'm sure there's going to be windows support eventually
The main difference between the Vision Pro and the XR-3, is that the XR-3 is actually capable of playing VR games and PCVR applications. XR-3 is VR/AR/MR HMD where the Vision Pro is, like you said, not a VR device. Not to mention Varjo is a proven enterprise company and their customer service is beyond anything you will ever receive from Apple... But for you to say using the XR-3 would be ridiculous to play BeatSaber is in itself, ridiculous. If anybody would love to play BeatSaber in an XR-3, it's you. Which brings me to another point. While yes, the XR-3 is hands down the best HMD available, it has been for nearly 3 years now. And the Apple HMD is still not even available for purchase. In that time the XR-3 has been the industry leader, they also have launched the Varjo Aero which is THE prosumer VR HMD and has been for nearly 2 years. Even after the 2 years the Aero has been out, nothing beats it still. I'd say the Varjo Aero has been THE VR HMD that has pushed this industry of VR forward more than any device because every high end VR HMD compares itself to the Aero and strives to even have what the Aero has had for the past couple years on their next HMD, let alone try to one up the Aero. Varjo doesn't get enough love in this industry and I really hope they don't end up not making another VR headset because people flock to Apple, who does nothing for the world of VR yet, and the leader of VR, Varjo, ends up packing their bags. I really, really hope that Varjo continues to make VR headsets as the Varjo Aero is unlike anything else available to consumers and the last 7 months I have owned one has been a magical experience every day I wear the HMD. It has everything I want in a VR HMD and then some. And like I said before Varjo is world class company who offers the best customer support around. If people are looking for the next big thing to wow them in VR, it's already here and has been here for years. Varjo Aero is truly that special and I can't wait until this top notch experience is available for every VR users.
THANK YOU for saying what needed to be said: Vision Pro is a Varjo competitor. A lot of people are hung up on the price, but those people are usually the general public or gamers, not industry professionals. It’s a different game out here. Use case is everything!
I love your opinions in this vid. I was so excited about apples headset, not to use personally but because it feels like another smartphone moment, theyre defining a new platform of the backs of the vr giants but theyve nailed the UI as they usually do!
please never change your intro... when i hear the sounds and the coffee machine, i am back to my first VR experiences and back in half life alyx with my valve index
Use of these for Motion Capture could be a potential use case too for games. Actors could potentially see the environment they are in while they act (admittedly some of the facial acting capture may be harder, if they combine outside camera for mouth and cheeks + in built eye tracking camera for eye performance, certainly doable.
i highly doubt that company will be around for much longer. 1. you need an apple phone to scan your face. 2. they're a small company with limited supply, and they're up against companies like samsung, sharp, sony, quest, valve, and now apple. there's no knowing what next year will hold either.. i think we will see many headsets that use these microoled panels in much cheaper headsets mid 2024.
The interface is by far the most important thing about this headset, and that is the point they tried to drive home. Sure they could have shown immersive games, which WILL eventually be developed, but that would not appeal to the people they're targeting. Apple has always been a company which changed the way we interact with technology. They're basically telling us we will interact with technology through VERY advanced eye tracking and hand gestures. By having enough compute and sensors, they can place place any form of digital content realistically in our environment, and give us the most 'natural' way of interacting with technology ever. This probably is why some people called it 'magical,' since some of the most natural things we take for granted are often more magical than we might realise.
outisde-in,,, isn't that base stations where they are outisde and look in.. where this is inside-out, having sensors on the inside, that look outwards...
There are 3 things the vision pro needs for it to fit the vr gaming market: - More than 2 hours of battery life - Controllers - Guaranteed PCVR support on more platforms than just MacOS
I don’t think people realize how important this is on any side. This is the type of innovation that took iPhones from a new concept, to the hands of almost every human being in America. It may be expensive, but it’ll be expanded upon for decades. This is huge.
Yeah, I completely agree. I'm totally fine with the price, it you stop thinking of these as consoles and instead consider them as smart phones or laptops.
I'm a longtime fan, but this is very first comment on your channel (also just posted this as my first comment on your Discord): Your take on the Apple headset is the best take I've seen anywhere, especially your insights on the overall potential, impact on the market, etc. Your channel is my favourite source of VR news/insights, mainly because you don't just give specs but are also not afraid to post your opinions/insights about the industry in general. As someone who uses VR (currently Quest 2) every day for work, play, and/or fitness, plus a longtime Apple fan (I had the first iPhone -yes, I am OLD-, the first iPad, the first Mac computer), I am VERY intrigued about Apple's new device.
Hey! Welcome to the comment section! It's fun down here.. sometimes! Thanks so much for the kind words! The headset is definitely interesting and the XR3 was the only headset that even came close in terms of specs, capability, and price.. seemed like the most logical comparison!
Excellent review. I agree with your analysis for what's that worth. I'm old enough to have been around for the introduction of the iPhone and I worked in tech for 40 years. I am so glad you continue to provide such quality content!
Definitely a hard sell for general consumer but I can tell who this appeals to. As a 3d modeler, architect, engineer, and game developer I would love to use this.
After watching several videos and reading a slew of articles about the Vision Pro, I think you put it best on who its really for right now and how its going to affect the AR/VR market overall. Also, it was great watching yours and Phia's panel at Furality Sylva this past weekend! :)
As a vr dev since 2014 this is a huge deal and is pretty exciting. A few points: 1. Apple controller pro will come 100%.. 2. This visual fidelity issue is extremely important and puts this in a new class of devices, that will allow for a new class of experiences. --- IMO your take is the most accurate so far. Very exciting moment for VR!
Apple has officially confirmed they are NEVER releasing tracked motion controllers for Vision OS devices. Just accept that it will never run most traditional VR games right now. It'll be less painful for you that way lol. Apple simply doesn't give a flying shit about that market. This is a computer replacement, NOT a game console one.
I'm just hoping for all the unique features of the vision pro to slowly get open source implementations from indie projects over the years so consumer headsets could become so much more capable and modular with affordable price tags and innovations to boot
the question is will virtual desktop be available for it, and paired with index controllers make it possible to use steamvr, or will they lock it down. I dont get how this is better than a phone, pc, tv, vr headset combo. I can literally buy all of those thing for less than the apple vision. The only positive I see about all of this, is that apple will create an immense hype around VR/AR. This will probably benefit META the most. Quest 3 for 499 is going to fly of the shelves then. Interesting times to say the least!
I appreciate the comparison to the more expensive headset. That’s good to know that it’s actually cheap in its own product category. Apple has made something that seems really cool, I’m excited to try it sometime! Thanks for making the VR industry a lot easier to understand. Love your videos!
Amazing video! and I agree with everything you said about the Vision Pro, it will only help push everyone else forward, the future of VR looks so fantastic right now, and we are all part of it!!
I am a bit upset that they do not show any tethered/wireless streaming to the headset. The chip looks pretty powerful though so that was not a huge issue. I then realised it would be running a macos variant and that basically no vr games will run on it. We also did not see any true vr games other than the environment thing. I just am a bit disappointed for the price of 3500 UNITED STATES DOLLARS, I COULD BUY A QUEST 3 AND 3 QUEST PROS
You have to understand that the reason they announced it now is so developers can get to working on it. Of course it’s not gonna have any games yet, but just like everything else, it will get them later down the line. Also vision os is the operating system, not mac os
@@GalacticFoxCat yea I mean the way thrill put it, it is really cheap for what it does and for what it is intended for. Not a vr headset just a, headset
Absolutely amazing analysis and coverage here. Apple needs to invite you to try out the vision pro. This is the best breakdown of what they showed I’ve seen and I’ve watched a ton of coverage. Great job.
I know this isn’t really related that much. But it’s surprising. A lot of VR headsets use different ways of tracking. Hand tracking, multiple cameras, and other stuff. But what no VR headsets use is WiFi vision. And it’s honestly really cool because WiFi can literally go through walls, meaning if you cover the camera it can still track. It’s really cool.
Isn't using WiFi for detection super low resolution? It can detect a blob for head, another blob for the body, blobs for parts of the arms, and shoes (not feet). From the research images I've seen, it would be the least accurate form of tracking.
@@travissmith5994 WiFi detects devices through walls, using this you can make a tracker. ruclips.net/video/3SCbd8o0FGM/видео.html that’s where you can get more info
I love the idea of full color pass-through but i already have the quest 2 with all the accessories. Won't be upgrading until it's fully phased out. That or bigscreen gets some more hardware features like color pass-through and or eye tracking. That thing looks amazing
Heck no don't load Bigscreen Beyond with extra weight and crap, I am getting tiered of going to the chiropractor. It's weight, comfort and quality is what makes it stand out. Notice nobody is talking about how comfortable or how heavy the Quest 3 or Apple is? Yeah the Q3 is 40% slimmer but it does not mean its lighter. I suspect it has a more heavy battery to power it along with extra hardware that won't actually increase game experiences,.
@@oldtc3615 I do talk about it. The Quest 3 comfort will be better than Quest 2. How much is the big question. Apple's is said to be on the heavy side, due to it being metal and glass. Bigscreen could have 2 headsets, one for max comfort, and one with passthrough and eyetracking.
@@NoX-512 I should have said those that actually had hands on these headset are not saying much. I hear some say the Q3 is actually more heavy and others say it's just a little less than Q2. Until they start talking about comfort more it's all speculation. The Apple I expect to be heavy-ish it's loaded with tech and a desktop level processor. And yeah I seen some find that weight to be odd but they don't compare it to other well known headsets for reference. It's going to be a huge joke if it turns out lighter on the head than the Q3 but that's a possibility if you consider the remote mounted battery. Oculus too could build a 2nd headset that is actually a Pro model and not in name only. I am disabled and the Q2 kills me every time I use it. My old Oculus Go I can have on all day but it's not like I can do much on it. You don't see the sugar coating like this however when you see reviews of the VIVE XR Elite.
Hey thrill this is for like not VR topic related but just wanna say I love your music and everything. It helps a lot and I’m constantly listening. Love your videos keep it up ❤
Maybe Apple didn't mention "virtual reality" during it's keynote, to stay away from the "dirty laundry" of Meta's metaverse? I have this feeling they're trying to position this as AR or some sort of "new technology", even though it's existed for a long time. If you own the hardware, you own the market Another great video Thrill, always on top of it 😊
I don't much care for the Apple headset but I am very likely getting the Quest 3! I'll be upgrading from a Rift S so the difference to me is gonna be pretty mindblowing I think. I've waited a looooong time for this but I am gonna wait for Thrill's review because of the controllers before I fully commit. I'm excited though!
Thank you for your video on Apple Vision Pro - it was great to finally listen to comparison of the headset and info on which product class it targets. While skeptical about this headset I am in full agreement on the future it targets. Once we get v3 / v4 with more app support , cloud gaming and price in range of $1,000 it should be a great addition to home ecosystem, even for regular users. Also very, very interested what the response of the other brands will be, while they can feel safe for now, technology advances at a fast pace and we might see some competition in few years from now.
One really interesting thing is that in a recent interview between Lex Fridman and The Zuck, Zuck basically said that Apple getting into VR at this vector is actually just going to help the Quest line. When both parties win, we as the consumers stand to see some pretty substantial advances in VR.
I think the main thing I get from the Apple Vision Pro is that Apple have basically built their own computer into a XR headset. It's pretty much the Mac for your face. That could also be why it's priced the way it is. If it gets the sales they'd be looking for, it could be what replaces all their other devices including maybe the iPhone.
From what I saw on the demos, it is more like an iPad than a Mac which is a shame. I mean, it doesn't even have a proper exposed filesystem and all of the apps looked like iPad apps. I was hoping it'd be more similar to a Mac but it lets you place screens anywhere, but obviously Apple isn't gonna do that because if they did they'd kill any reason to get a MacBook when you can get something that gives you infinite screens instead of just 1.
Love this take. Obviously it's not going to be exactly like an iPad, iPhone, or Mac; it's a whole new device category for Apple. But the idea that they think this is the future and that this can potentially replace people's laptops is one idea that totally makes sense. It's the very first version. In a couple years we'll see where things are at.
That's awesome!! I heard about the quest 2 boost but admittedly, as I don't know much about CPU or anything, I was too embarrassed to ask if that meant they were releasing whole new quest tools that are purchased with the boost, but current owners didn't get it or if it was an actual update. I'm so glad it's an update since I already have a quest 😅
Once there is a headset that balances price, video quality, and is small enough to wear for hours on end without hurting your face, VR could possibly become a much larger industry used not only by gamers or creatives but also the common masses. Hopefully its possible because that would be the dream headset for everyone.
As much as I think the Apple Vision Pro will "revolutionize the industry", the fact that they put zero emphasis on gaming makes me think that it's going to flop the same way the Quest Pro did, and it costs half as much as the Vision Pro does. Not to mention how dystopian it looks, something straight out of a black mirror episode.
I doubt it is because compared to the quest pro, apple is putting a heavy emphasis on user interface and ease of use. They’re trying to create an entirely new ecosystem instead of just coming up with another headset
I really do consider this Apple telling us, "This is where we really at for the next generation; We have it, but it's not fully-baked yet." No way in hell am I forking out 3500 for a set of scuba goggles right now, but the technology is truly impressive and reminds me that Moore's Law still stands.
The apple headet to me is a top tier developer kit, they need people to develop for it, so they later can release a headset for the masses, still going to be at the apple price, but they need apps to sell headsets
This is literally the Apple of Occulus Rift Development Kit. Which is surprising.. I remember using a Development Kit once way back in high school and it was something cool.
ThrillSeeker, I always appreciate your take on VR news! You are great at distilling it all down and adding industry context. I am definitely most excited about the Quest 3 as a PCVR headset. AV1 will be a huge quality boost for wireless VR and I am sure that the devs for Virtual Desktop will implement it as soon as possible. I was blown away by the recent 10bit h.265 implementation on the latest version of Virtual Desktop. Combined with much clearer pancake lenses and a modest boost in resolution, it will potentially be a big upgrade. I am also excited to see what games Team Beef will be able to port to the quest with the extra horsepower of the Quest 3. I wonder if they could bring Virtual Desktop to the Apple headset to allow wireless interfacing with a gaming PC.
Finally, someone who gets the point! It is clear that Apple is opening a brand new section with the Vision Pro. By using the word "Pro," it implies the introduction of a non-Pro, less capable, and more accessible version. Firstly, the use of the M2 silicon, rather than the A15 (iPhone Chip), sets a clear path that this headset will be positioned alongside the iPad Pro and Macs. Secondly, this device does not require an iPhone to function, unlike the Apple Watch; it is its own standalone device. Thirdly, it has its own operating system, the Vision OS. My conclusion is that this headset is just a Developer Kit for the future of VisionOS. I'm positive that Apple will be losing money per headset because packing two close-to-6K screens per eye, along with a front screen, eight cameras, and LiDAR, makes this machine quite expensive to build. However, it will be the spark that ignites the future content for VisionOS and Apple AR.
I had no doubt Apple would have the best hardware when it came to AR/VR headsets. Their vertical integration and supply chain pretty much ensured this. What I think matter even more is whether they are able to present/create a cohesive vision for AR/VR as a whole and sell consumers on it. That is something I've yet to see from Apple, and their presentation for the Vision Pro seems to indicate that they are either still keeping that close to the chest or, more concerningly, don't actually have one yet..
What’s our last hope of a headset with built in face and eye tracking? New index might have a chance of having it? Or go for the quest pro? That’s really what I’m looking for right now but there’s so much going on I’m not sure if I should wait or not 😩
TS, always enjoy your vids and perspective. My only gripe is still the 2 hours. Do you think in the future they will come up with an attachment that extends the battery life? For 3g that's a lotta paper. Either way I'm looking forward to your full review before I consider the purchase. Thanks for the vid.
very nice video... thank you - I've been looking for ways to make my oculus 2 more comfortable and last longer - but also looking for FOV upgrades - or anything better, and you covered everything, thank you!
I am really hoping to get a dev kit for this. If I can get one, I'll be building Godot plugins for it as soon as I can and bark will be on it. If we can, we'll be the first social XR app in this ecosystem. I would love to get there early with an Open source, user friendly, decentralized social XR app. Honestly, though. I really don't like the first offering from Apple. It remains to be seen what is exposed through their tools and API for this headset and I hope it exposes a lot because I really want to leverage everything... on every platform.
The apple headset is the first thing to give me chills like this since the original oculus dev kit and before that the iPad. We can only go off what they've shown, so there is room for it to fall below what they've promised, but as described it seems like way more than the sum of its parts. I think the seamless integration between AR and VR is critical to the long term adoption of headsets. Eliminating that sense of isolation. Having it be an opt in thing. That is key. I'm also so amazed that it's basically a completely viable PC replacement. Or at least very nearly. If you want to use a mouse and keyboard you can easily do like 95% of regular PC tasks while having the massive benefits of being in a fully immersive VR/AR experience. Idk. I'm kinda blown away. For how stacked the software and hardware combo is 3500 seems downright cheap. Insanely excited. First time I've considered buying an apple product in a long, long time.
if you are going on say a vacation, you could bring a power cable, keyboard, and mouse, and have a fully ar and flatscreen high end gaming pc/device on the go
thank you for saying EXACTLY what ive been thinking. its been so cringy to hear people who have no idea about this industry talking about the headset. its gonna be a huge catalyst for both sides, both vr and ar :) love your content as always
Yeah, been pretty cringe to see during the unveil so many Apple fans "aLl oTheR hEaDsEt aRe tRaSh nOw !??!" Like these people don't even understand it isn't really in the same device category. And basically isn't for gaming almost at all, at this point. Also 7 X the price lol. But anything that makes VR/AR better and cheaper is good for all of us.
Hey I am having a big VR community meetup this weekend! Join my discord for coordination details. I was going to include it in this video but the vid was already 16 minutes, didn't want to break the pace. SO! Join up if you're interested! I'll be there and I'll see you in cyberspace : Discord.gg/thrill
best vr headset? u ironic?
cos what i saw it is just watch movies or having conference or multitasking work projects in vr headset
like u said it dont even have any controllers or anything that scream vr gaming headset.
at stupid 3500 price point lol
its an DOA product
Big
@@rinkumultani6515 They meant in terms of specs and mixed reality.
I can't wait to be there!
@MannyAnims it's specs don't matter if you can't do anything with the damn thing. It's like getting a beast of a gaming pc that can only use a mouse and no keyboard
I hope they set up stations to try it out at Apple stores. Because I won’t be dropping $3500 for a headset anytime soon. But I really wanna see how nice the visuals are with that many pixels per eye.
isnt in only 4k per eye? obviously thats good but the Pico 4 has that and its like 400 dollars
@@lewis0705 pico is like 2k per eye or 4k for both eyes
@@lewis0705 They claim 23 million pixels which is about 3400x3400 per eye - Pico is 2160x2160 so 9.33 million pixels so quite a bit extra.
I have seen testers at wwdc make videos saying this will be a thing. Interesting enough, apparently the face gasket is custom fitted like the big screen beyond and when you order one at the apple store u you a tester unit to scan your face for a perfect fit. I have not seen it said how long it will take to deliver the headset though after you order it in store.
I hope so too, people will be going to the Apple stores and try VR. Would really boost VR sales for Meta too!
After seeing the pricing of apples headset I’m more excited for the quest 3. I think having Apple involved in the industry will bring much more attention to other more affordable brands. Especially once people start trying them in-store!
Same
Yeah, it's really cool, but I feel like it's the gamers that have been keeping VR afloat. With basically no attention to gaming at all, I'm curious how much it'll sell to the casual/productivity crowds. I'd guess it actually has a better GPU than the Quest 3 will have, but we'll see what kind of support it gets from developers.
@@SirSethery gamers have been keeping VR afloat but that doesnt mean they owe us anything unfortunately, especially apple being a new entrant in the XR space. i assume they intentionally are distancing this headset from the gaming VR space so as to position vision pro in consumers minds as something else entirely (which it mostly is). they know gamers are the ones who want new hardware the most but they arent trying to please gamers theyre trying to introduce XR tech to an entirely new market (the average consumer). that market has not been attracted to the gaming vr space whatsoever thus far. what they will be attracted to however is literally anything apple
@@SirSethery it definitely be a hard sell at that price especially since it seems quite big and is a new OS. hopefully it gains the ability to connect to computers and phones than id say it would be worth it. also the size would be hard as productivity people would need to wear it constantly
"After seeing the pricing of apples headset I’m more excited for the quest 3."
You still miss the point.. even in this video...
When the quest 3 gets a 1 minute section in a 15 minute Tuesday Newsday you know it’s an amazing week for VR
The announcement of Quest 3 is also quite tiresome.
We knew what was coming, so why bother with already outdated things when Apple tried something new in life. ^^
And after 7 years the time has come.
@@DragonhengWhile you play flatscreen games for $3500,- I will play real VR games with controllers for $500,-
Personally, I was not impressed with Apples skimask. Not at that pricetag.
@@NoX-512 I don't want to say that I'm willing to pay that much for a product, but you heard about the Quest 3 before it was even presented what it could do.
Personally, I'm not a fan of Apple or Meta either, so I'm not even willing to pay the price of the quest, no matter what it can do.
But at least the cats have been let out of the bag now.
It is also important that companies like Apple expand the market with their bad premium concept.
@@Dragonheng Not a big fan of Meta and Apple either. The only reason I have Quest is because I don't want to buy a gaming PC just for VR. I'm just a casual VR gamer.
If HTC can figure out how to make a good standalone, I will switch. Right now, Quest is the only real option.
Quest 2 is fine, Quest 3 will be finer 😂
@@NoX-512
Of course that's different.
Even though I'm not a fan of Meta, I find the Quest to be a good VR headset for its price with a bad reputation because 2/3 of the users are children who use them unsupervised and scream around.
Next to me is a 5k machine that will continue to work as a self-made server at the end of its life as a game computer. Like the last ones, the graphics card will probably only serve as a device for troubleshooting, although it's too big for something like that.
30series problem.
I wouldn't buy a computer either, but I use several for it,
besides the games, for creative and self hosting applications.
And if you don't keep an eye on the costs, it's always fun to build one.
My index has been alive for a good 4 years now and now has a dead pixel but it still works.
It is simply awesome how ThrillSeeker can summarise so clearly things that the mainstream media struggle so much to cover. Excellent analysis!!
Remember PCs were not originally made for Gaming either.
Yeah this does seem like one of the biggest weeks ever for vr
ABSOLUTLY THIS PUTTING US OUT THERE NOW WHEN STILL ALOT HAVENT EVEN WANT TO TRY IT.....
Not so much really.
Eventually people will realize what a devastating effect those 5,000 patents are going to have on the industry.
bro its just a screen extender with a few built in things and a 2 hour battery that isnt even in the headset😭
@@mac2phoot "alot" is not a real word.
@@StubbyPhillips What do you mean about the patents?
I’m absolutely stoked to see all these announcements. As a guy running a Quest 1 and a laptop with a gtx 1060, it’s really interesting seeing where the industry is going with advancements while I’m low key content in my slightly lower spec corner. I’m seriously hoping that with all these different players in the XR market, us as consumers can get absolutely amazing stuff out of the competition that’ll be coming.
hehe same here
the same here also 😅
Same right there!
even if you are content with the specds of your HMD, it must be frustrating all the new games that are quest 2 exclusives no?
@@JasonEisenberg81as someone with a similar setup (quest 1 with gtx 1050ti) , i can say im perfectly happy not being able to play quest 2 games since pcvr more than makes up for it
To me it's a competitor to laptops.
It's a light device you strap on your head that allows you to do desk work in a cool new way
Hardly.
A good laptop can get well over 10 hours on battery power.
This can't even get 3 hours worth.
It's also not THAT light.
For a couple hours of fun, yes - for a full days wroth of work 5 days a week, no.
VR optics and various other factors need another few years of development before you could use it for serious work all year around.
Also the Apple headset lacks hardware varifocal optics - definitely a no go for anything but casual usage.
I don't put stock in Meta's output because at the end of the day it's Facebook undernearth, but I do think that they will easily beat Apple to the top of that particular hill - they have a roadmap, and most importantly they have a reasonable price in mind to drive market adoption.
This won't drive adoption - it's an expensive toy that few would be able to afford even prior to post COVID, Brexit and Ukraine war economic impacts, but these days it's truly a ridiculous price tag for a company more than capable of tanking a subsidized new market segment opener like this.
Long point short - their insane profits on other products could easily subsidize this to a more reasonable cost.
They just don't because they are Apple.
@@mnomadvfx i mean you said it yourself, it just needs a few years of development. Anyway the M2 chip in the headset (and MacBook) are still leaps and bounds ahead of most competitors. If it really wanted to, it could be a very high end, standalone gaming headset.
most people use their laptops wired to the wall during most of their work days, no reason you cant do that with the headset + as trinity said it is really just a matter of time. I'm talking about long-term positioning, not the current capabilities of the headset.
@@mnomadvfx How much battery life did the first Apple Macbook have? 5 hours.
How much does a Macbook have today? 20 hours
What is the smallest bag this can fit in? A medium ladies carry bag
What is the smallest bag an Ultrabook/Macbook can fit in? A proper backpack or a laptop carrying sleeve.
What size of screen does a Macbook offer in above case? 15 inch
What size of screen does this and it's future iterations will offer? Technically infinite. But realistically 60 inch
@@mnomadvfx Apple is making like 50% margin on all their devices(still high for computer hardware). If we assume this product is the same, it would cost 2000ish dollars if they sold at a cost....Do you really think 2000 dollars will drive mainstream adoption? Usually, when a company like Meta takes a loss or sells the products at cost it's because:
A: The price is low enough that they can push LOTS of units
B: They have LOTS of software they can sell with no cost through a store
C: They're trying to break into a crowded space and steal market share
Usually all of the above. Even if Apple took a loss this would still be a premium product, apple has little to no Day 1 software to sell, and with this price tag, spec sheet, and lack of controllers. They just aren't competing with other headsets anyway.
Imagine if that potential was used for gaming too 😭
yeah
Nah... We need highend productivity hardware and software being designed specifically for it... We shouldn't have resources split in between gaming and productivity... also you would have to add cuda cores and tensor.... it would cost like 10K at that point and weigh 20 pounds... This already requires a wired battery for "wireless functionality."
@@KennyCutz idk about that stuff, but if the headset was designed for gaming too they’d probably have figured out a way around this problems. Again, I don’t know anything about how it works, I could be saying smth stupid.
At that resolution, I assume it will be impossible to run VR games at high enough FPS.
This headset would be a niche within a niche. The VR gamer sector is already small, making games for a 3500$ isn't the smartest idea. I doubt any studio will make a game for it, unless existing games that use steamVR or UE4/5 with the VR injector, and knowing apple, I doubt that will happen...
Man VR is really taking off. So much I almost can't keep up. Still big screen beyond for me but the spacial computer aspect of apple is super interesting.
But the apple headset usnt VR? And q3 is just a more powerful q2. So until we get new games and new people... VR isnt going anywhere new...yet
Except apple never once used the word VR and they have glowing eyes, theres better headsets out there if your gonna spend that much money.
this is more XR focused, with a heeavvvyy emphasis on AR. Don't expect VR gaming on this unless ggodin can somehow figure out a way to make hand tracking to controller emulation that doesn't suck for Virtual Desktop
Not so much really.
Eventually people will realize what a devastating effect those 5,000 patents are going to have on the industry.
IDK why people think this week was a win, it was a total bust. Apple's headset will fail, VR is for gamers and enterprise. I don't know anyone willing to use a VR headset as a laptop, the investors are going to lose, and bad, and we as enthusiasts will be the ones to pay.
So… this is probably the most thoughtful take on the Vision Pro I have seen so far, and I have seen a LOT. Well done.
Yep. Seeing the announcements and everybody's coverage, all I could think of was your video about the XR-3.
Yes. $3500 for a headset that has zero gaming plans that have been announced. Just to point it out to all the idiots out there saying it’s not supposed to be a gaming headset. So. If Apple is boastful that is is going to be the “Best VR headset in the world”, how will it overcome the fair amount of competition that have only been successful in gaming? VR, in general, has only seen any real and marketable success in gaming. I don’t see how it’s possible to go in with any chances of success without any concrete plans for it at all. Get your heads out of your asses
Correct
Exactly.
Real and very sad. I was considering getting one. But no more.
😮 are you joking!?
$3500 oculus go with modern screen
Truly, insane
Over 4K resolution in each lens? Yes please.
utterly pointless there isnt consumer level hardware capable of running double 4k at appropriate framerate ...
@@Asghaad It's not using external hardware though - that's the point of the M2 and R1 chip in it.
@@Asghaad it uses foveated rendering so it needs to render only a portion at full quality. The quality improves overall.
@@Asghaad yes there is. I run more than 4000x4000 per eye routinely on my varjo vr3. But on a 4090.
Good luck doing that with an M2 on heavy games!
@@UnknownDino i run foveated rendering on msfs2020 with the varjo vr3. It is good for about 5-10 fps, from 40 to 45 fps or so.
There may be more efficient techniques, but it's not going to change things dramatically.
You can't make up the difference from the M2 to a 4090
This is such a great video and such a great take on the Vision Pro, awesome stuff Thrill! Overall, I feel like this is a massive W for the industry and I'm super excited to see how the next few months and years progress. Have just put in an order for the Beyond as it is just such an insane, unique device and an upgrade in every metric over my decrepit Cosmos Elite!
Great review, been catching a few and I know your more focused on gaming, but this could be the game changer that the office space needs to bring AR/VR into life.
Yep totally agree. Apple investing in XR and trying to find more daily use /mainstream use cases will hopefully push software development forward so that as the prices and sizes hopefully come down there will be a decent infrastructure for all types of users. It’s now or never. With AI developments software dev has changed immeasurably this year alone, it should hopefully speed things up.
The price tag definitely isn't mainstream though... That's "rich people toy" territory.
Apple is not an innovator.
@@shadowmann9 Yup...they used to be, with the IPod and first IPhone. But once they were established in the market they started just doing what others were doing, putting it in their "fancy" apple coat, and calling it "new".
Airpods for instance. Wireless bluetooth buds had already been a thing for a few years at that point, but Apple was lauded as such an innovator for "their idea". Yea right...
Yeah - like when the prices of iPhones came down and down...
@@sodacan2594 The price of iPhones absolutely came way down, it may not feel like it, but adjusted for inflation. The original iPhone was over $700 adjusted for inflation. And that was with a carrier subsidizing plan. Meaning you’re paying more for the plan to help subsidize the cost of the phone over two years which brings it over a thousand in today's money accounting for that additional cost to the plan.
I actually thought the same thing about VARIO, but, as obsessed as I am with vr, I can't afford 3.5k for a headset. It doesn't help that it can't connect to steam vr. That said, this headset is literally everything I've ever wanted for AR, that I didn't think I'd see for another 10 to 20 years.
It's not a competitor to the vr3/xr3. It doesn't replace those at all. It's not even as sharp, and completely lacks app support for industry
This is a general consumer device
@@Tom--Ace EXACTLY its not for enterprise, and its really not for average consumers either, this headset is gonna fail, and hard, and even more hardware & software developers will avoid VR because THEY KEEP ON INVESTING IN THE DAMN WRONG THING. VR IS FOR GAMERS. Its not a laptop, or a portal to alternate universe or whatever the f*** dumb hype s*** these companies keep trying to push. Social VR is cool, but most people will avoid it, because, well real life exists. We need a good, low to mid budget, high res PC VR headset (that doesn't need base stations, sorry Big Screen but ya done goofed) and another smash hit like Half-Life Alyx with stunning graphics. There are waaaay more capable VR gaming PC's on the market than when Alyx came out considering it was the 10 series back then. 3 Generations of GPU's, DLSS, Ray-tracing, all this new tech, and nothing to use it with in a headset. Its trash, and I'm sick of the VR industry being so misguided when its so obvious what it needs to succeed.
@@plav032 speak for yourself, You're speaking from a poors point of view. they can't afford and shoud not. This is going to be huge and apple didn't advertise it to gamers but general public, It can replace a lot of things like monitor, sound system and you can get a unique experience, Normal people not into gaming won't buy a vr and build a computer and get on to the internet to see which game shoudl they play and all the conneting that it needs but if you buy vision pro you can just use it immediately. It's not going to fail also it;s not for poor peasants
@@plav032 So we're just gonna ignore how expensive said graphics cards are? It's easier to target a older gen hardware than it is a 3080 for the main reason of the damn price of one. Also, inside out tracking and low cost don't exactly mix, Base Stations are a cost effective ( and accurate ) method of tracking without having to steal processing power to track the headset, or embed a mini compute device inside for tracking, which gets expensive fast
I’m hoping someone will crack it so that a hacked version can connect to steam vr
Hey thrill seeker, thank you so much for making content! You’re my main vr RUclipsr and I love how you explain the potential effects of hardware/software releases on the industry. It’s such an exciting time to be alive and I cannot wait to see how this technology could potentially effect our daily lives! My favorite videos that you post are the ones showing off the latest high-resolution / fov headsets and analyzing how be technology may evolve in the future.
Interesting take comparing it to the Varjo. As a VR Dev working with the Varjo I have to say it's tempting but I also must say that I am very sceptical that the Vision pro can support those high end experiences with only an M2 chip. The Varjo is always paired with the fastest GPU u can buy (right now a 4090) and I have to say even that amount of power is a stretch from what our professional clients expect out of the experiences when develop. So as long as I cannot stream/send VR from a extremely powerful source I don't see this as a replacement unfortunately. Really unfortunately... Because the Varjo is a pain in the a** to work with
I think that is exactly why Apple isn’t marketing it as a VR headset. As a fellow dev, I think we haven’t seen close to the end of Apple’s ingenuity with microchip design especially on the graphics side. I expect they will spend some effort on creating ridiculous graphics (sub)chips for future headsets and their ARM line. Not ridiculous as in beating Nvidia in performance at any point, but rather competing with last gen but using a fraction of the power. That would then be the time a Vision SE headset gets marketed including VR.
Apple are *ruthless patent trolls.* The "Vision Pro" is a *HUGE PATENT GRAB* (5000 patents) which can only harm the industry going forward.
You should blame the system more than the international conglomerates like Apple. As long as the US Congress lets this happen, it will happen
This all is so incredible for the whole XR industry. I am so glad to live in this time and I am looking forward to see what’s coming next 😆
WE BOTH ........WE CAN SAY WE THE FIRST.....
careful what you wish for
Great video Thrill! Love the channel as always. A few things to note about the Apple Vision Pro revealed through WWDC developer videos:
- The headset has full support for the Unity engine to bring fully immersive complete VR games/experiences
- And, since many (if not most) of existing VR games were developed in Unity, they can almost instantly be ported across to the Vision Pro with the new dev tools from the Apple-Unity partnership - so there is a huge incentive for Unity developers to bring their VR games across (great candidates include Hand Physics Lab etc)
- The headset can support not just bluetooth keyboards and game controllers but it has been revealed that it supports tracked controllers too
- The first officially-developed or at least officially sanctioned full VR immersive experience is Rec Room - and it's completely controlled by hand tracking as of now. There is gameplay footage available of Rec Room VR on the Vision Pro already. Fruit Ninja and other games were also shown in the Vision Pro's AppStore
- The headset has a frame rate of 90Hz and has a special 96Hz mode to support displaying cinematic 24fps content. There is no word as to whether the panels support 120Hz a-la-quest 2, but this should be revealed soon
- Games coded in Apple's languages and frameworks as well as the Unity Engine can take full skeletal hand tracking inputs after asking the user for permission - this makes the hand tracking so much more powerful than pinch to select etc, as it can now be used for completely custom control experiences
Note: the Vision Pro is honestly poised to be huge for the gaming space. Not only because every iPad or iPhone game ever is already instantly supported and able to be played on a super massive theatre screen but also because Unity is ready to rock and roll with full immersive experiences!
Hopefully these are some interesting points you might find helpful? Idk! Can't wait to see more content about this stuff from you soon!
Gotta say I laughed out loud when I saw the eye display on the front of the Apple unit. I just can't imagine not secretly laughing at the first person I see wearing this in public.
when the Quest 3 is released, I might wait a month or two to see the reviews and everything about it before I choose to upgrade from my current headset, the Rift S. I was one of the only ones to skip on the Quest 2 upgrade, and by the time I had money to make the jump, I decided to commit until a newer headset starts being shipped out from them, and I'm glad the wait was worth it, looking forward to what the Quest 3 has to offer 👍
I’m getting it to enjoy AR and pass through, something I’ve wanted and I’m finally going to save up for it
Woah that’s crazy
As someone who has a rift s and a quest 2, I can say that the wireless aspect made the q2 worth it for me, and a game changer, though the built in home on q2 sucked when compared to the PC home, which I guess is now gone anyways. :(
same situation as myself lol I considered upgrading last year but decided not to between the rumours of the quest 3 and wanting to keep away from using a battery run headset for now, but if the reviews are good I might finally say goodbye to my rift s
I’m super interested in what apple will allow people to do with the headset. One thing I wish you would have touched on some more is the exclusive apple only experiences that sound like they are going to come to apples headset. Stuff like the nba and Disney partnership. Additionally wwdc had hugeeee gaming announcements it looks like apple IS pivoting some of its resources to gaming and I would be shocked if that was not at all part of this headset
What I’m still curious about is how open the operating system will be
Like we know now that it’ll be more open than an iPhone but we’re still on the fence like “is this a face mounted iPad where we’re still locked to what’s on the App Store or is this a face mounted mac where you can download more or less whatever you want, or maybe somewhere in between
Strong chance that Apple will develop their own game studio. This will be a similar to Apple TV+ where they work with the most talented people in the game industry and applies their massive war chest to create unique high-quality games.
Additionally they've already started acquiring rights to sports leagues. This will give them the ability to produce the highest-quality 3D sports watching experience of anyone. That will further entice other leagues to sell their rights to Apple. They will do the same with concerts given their contacts with musicians through Apple Music. These 3 items games, sports, and concerts will be offered worldwide and be among the most important magnets to draw customers to Vision Pro and follow-on products.
Apple made this for people to sit in front of their Mac to have it pop up in the display. Kid you not, it's in their footage, they think people are mindless chickens.
Will developers really start porting games to apple’s OS just because of the upgrades to Metal? Seems like apple is pretty hostile to gaming devs, but maybe that’s changing!
What apple will allow people to do with the headset? It's Apple, they showed literally anything you will be allowed to do with "your" headset in presentation.
Thrillseeker, your videos are probably the biggest reason I use my oculus quest two. I find it simply irresistible- once your video starts- to resist the urge to play.
And for this my man, I thank you!
I am sure there are many of us in the world who feel the same way. Big love, don’t stop keeping us in the know and thank you!
Man you hit the nail on the head! 100% agree with your explanation of this new device. So 3xciting to see Where XR progresses from this point onwards!!
Hands down the best overview I've seen of the Vision Pro. Everyone is just harping on the cost and lack of gaming but you very astutely called out that: content will be driven by the developers. Let's see what they can come up with before we judge!
When it comes to gaming, content is always driven by the users. This machine will need to sell in the console numbers (millions of units) before developers find it economical to produce games for it. But if it only sells in the thousands numbers, you just can't make your money back (as a gaming company). It costs lots of money to make a good game, you want potentially millions of buyers available, not just a few thousands.
Having said that, this looks like a great piece of hardware aimed at businesses and the like. I can imagine this being used during on-line meetings and conferences a lot. As a business connection unit, this is great. and if Apple plays it cards well, they will corner the business connectivity market rather well.
But it is NOT aimed at the gaming market.
No controllers no games. You cant play 95% games without controllers.
@@atriusvinius319 Given the fidelity of the sensors on their beast (they can superimpose not only your whole hand in what you see but your whole arm as well) I bet once the software catches up you can replicate controller actions with individual finger motions or hand gestures sort of like what the deaf use).
@@madmotorcyclist You need to hold something in your hand( a pistol a rifle or a sword) to be more immersed. And their sensors will always be inconsistent\buggy. Ideal hand-tracking is impossible at the moment and in the near future.
This device is not for games
@@atriusvinius319 Your statement about the sensors is just supposition and an opinion. This is first gen and what limits them now is software which will be coming. Already they can digitally model a whole hand and arm in view it will only take more software to add modeling whatever you hold in that hand to be available for interaction.
Great presentation. I agree with what you had to say about the Vision Pro setting a benchmark without competing. Very excited about the future of XR, AI, and the things and experiences that people create with and for these new technologies!!! Especially looking forward to peoples reviews on using the Vision Pro as a workstation and along side their other Apple gear to create things and develop with.
I was just starting the video and in your intro song there's the sound for an index controller power down.. and I panicked, looking around thinking I left one of mine on and the battery had died... LOL.. Well done.
as someone who watched this event live at the SadlyItsBradley event for this headset, it seemed like kind of a let down for me and most of the people there I talked to about it. But this was actually a really interesting tale on it and definitely changed my perspective on a headset I saw as being for no one
why was it a let down
I would say this headset is just basically apple saying to developers: "look this is the hardware we can do with current technology, now develop apps for it" hence why it was revealed it at wwdc
Oh hey you sat in front of me during the event lol
@@princewhite. a lot of people seem to be unable to imagine a future for HMDs which isn't primarily focused around gaming.
MKBHD had hands on. Definitly cool tech but had no plans to buy one so price doesn't affect me, is just really cool to see where we're heading.
To me, it's wild that just 5 months ago I got a quest 2 and was finally able to properly enjoy VR.
Previously I had a cool demo with a WMR headset, a friend let me play on his PSVR, but now I could finally just put a headset on, and use it, for as long as I wanted whenever I wanted.
I think external batteries was the way to go from the beginning. Less weight on the headset, I only see it as a win. Idk way people want heavy batteries on their head.
Yes.I imagine apple or 3rd parties will offer larger battery options. External battery keeps the weight on your head consistent.
Man, you’re getting so good at these video essay style content pieces. Some good insights here. Keep doing it :)
i think more competition is always a good thing, and I am curious if there is going to be any effort to make a "emulator" to convert controller based VR games to hand tracked versions
At this point it doesn’t seem like Apple has full hand tracking built in other than their gestures. That’s the problem according to a lot of the media outlets that called the headset “magical” they also said a lot of it seems half baked especially things like the tracking.
well apple now has a fully gaming sdk and conversion process .. it would be easy for them to make that easy. They are starting to push gaming.. with metal 3 and this new game dev track.
Most important thing to keep in mind is this is literally a Gen-1 headset. The smart thing to do is to wait for the next generations once these are initially adopted so they have a bunch of people testing the hardware on a massive scale.
Most types of VR games will not be much fun with hand tracking. Just like touch is far from ideal in many types of games. It reminds me of the time when Apple tried to kill the mouse with iPad, only to realize several years later that they were wrong.
Honestly Apple will probably add native VR controller support. I'm sure their enterprise customers & developers will want it. Plus I'm sure there's going to be windows support eventually
The main difference between the Vision Pro and the XR-3, is that the XR-3 is actually capable of playing VR games and PCVR applications. XR-3 is VR/AR/MR HMD where the Vision Pro is, like you said, not a VR device. Not to mention Varjo is a proven enterprise company and their customer service is beyond anything you will ever receive from Apple... But for you to say using the XR-3 would be ridiculous to play BeatSaber is in itself, ridiculous. If anybody would love to play BeatSaber in an XR-3, it's you.
Which brings me to another point. While yes, the XR-3 is hands down the best HMD available, it has been for nearly 3 years now. And the Apple HMD is still not even available for purchase. In that time the XR-3 has been the industry leader, they also have launched the Varjo Aero which is THE prosumer VR HMD and has been for nearly 2 years. Even after the 2 years the Aero has been out, nothing beats it still. I'd say the Varjo Aero has been THE VR HMD that has pushed this industry of VR forward more than any device because every high end VR HMD compares itself to the Aero and strives to even have what the Aero has had for the past couple years on their next HMD, let alone try to one up the Aero.
Varjo doesn't get enough love in this industry and I really hope they don't end up not making another VR headset because people flock to Apple, who does nothing for the world of VR yet, and the leader of VR, Varjo, ends up packing their bags. I really, really hope that Varjo continues to make VR headsets as the Varjo Aero is unlike anything else available to consumers and the last 7 months I have owned one has been a magical experience every day I wear the HMD. It has everything I want in a VR HMD and then some. And like I said before Varjo is world class company who offers the best customer support around.
If people are looking for the next big thing to wow them in VR, it's already here and has been here for years. Varjo Aero is truly that special and I can't wait until this top notch experience is available for every VR users.
THANK YOU for saying what needed to be said: Vision Pro is a Varjo competitor. A lot of people are hung up on the price, but those people are usually the general public or gamers, not industry professionals. It’s a different game out here. Use case is everything!
Really loved this vid lots of big news! Cant wait to see your vision review.
For comparasion: price is 12 quest 2s or 7 quest 3s
get one for you and all your friends!
I love your opinions in this vid. I was so excited about apples headset, not to use personally but because it feels like another smartphone moment, theyre defining a new platform of the backs of the vr giants but theyve nailed the UI as they usually do!
It is uplifting to see ideas and concepts being manifested in the physical world. The pieces are coming together...
please never change your intro... when i hear the sounds and the coffee machine, i am back to my first VR experiences and back in half life alyx with my valve index
Use of these for Motion Capture could be a potential use case too for games. Actors could potentially see the environment they are in while they act (admittedly some of the facial acting capture may be harder, if they combine outside camera for mouth and cheeks + in built eye tracking camera for eye performance, certainly doable.
Actual not a bad idea!
I think he said it has eye and face tracking
@@awesome_by_default yeah seems like your face drives your digital clone in whatever is called skype for apple.
Very thoughtful and insightful commentary here.
And, I'm surprised how few people are interested to know or talk about the FOV of the Vision Pro.
What's there to talk about. As stated in the video, it is standard. Between Quest age PSVR2
@@laartwork You don't think people are interested to know the FOV of a brand new AR/VR headset?
Riiiiiiiiiiiight.
@@NR-rv8rz As mentioned it was stated in the video. Not clear what you're up about
@@madhououinkyoma 'What you're up about' is not English. Try again.
@@NR-rv8rz 🤣Good comeback
I think you make the best VR videos, can't believe I've been constantly checking ur page to see if u posted yet about everything that's happened
It would be really cool to see bigscreen using the technology if hypervision‘s vr140 gen 2. it would certainly solve the fov-issues
i highly doubt that company will be around for much longer. 1. you need an apple phone to scan your face. 2. they're a small company with limited supply, and they're up against companies like samsung, sharp, sony, quest, valve, and now apple. there's no knowing what next year will hold either.. i think we will see many headsets that use these microoled panels in much cheaper headsets mid 2024.
The interface is by far the most important thing about this headset, and that is the point they tried to drive home. Sure they could have shown immersive games, which WILL eventually be developed, but that would not appeal to the people they're targeting. Apple has always been a company which changed the way we interact with technology. They're basically telling us we will interact with technology through VERY advanced eye tracking and hand gestures. By having enough compute and sensors, they can place place any form of digital content realistically in our environment, and give us the most 'natural' way of interacting with technology ever. This probably is why some people called it 'magical,' since some of the most natural things we take for granted are often more magical than we might realise.
I think the biggest thing the Vision Pro pushes is that eye-tracking and inside-out tracking are the future of any successful platform.
It's outside in? That's interesting. I thought for certain inside out would be the way forward after it's perfected.
@@Skrenja he meant inside out
outisde-in,,, isn't that base stations where they are outisde and look in.. where this is inside-out, having sensors on the inside, that look outwards...
Thank you for those who pointed out that the Reality Pro is using inside-out tracking. I misspoke when I said outside-in.
There are 3 things the vision pro needs for it to fit the vr gaming market:
- More than 2 hours of battery life
- Controllers
- Guaranteed PCVR support on more platforms than just MacOS
Thank you for the live comments on the event on Twitch. First time for me and it was great
I don’t think people realize how important this is on any side. This is the type of innovation that took iPhones from a new concept, to the hands of almost every human being in America.
It may be expensive, but it’ll be expanded upon for decades. This is huge.
Yeah, I completely agree. I'm totally fine with the price, it you stop thinking of these as consoles and instead consider them as smart phones or laptops.
I'm a longtime fan, but this is very first comment on your channel (also just posted this as my first comment on your Discord): Your take on the Apple headset is the best take I've seen anywhere, especially your insights on the overall potential, impact on the market, etc. Your channel is my favourite source of VR news/insights, mainly because you don't just give specs but are also not afraid to post your opinions/insights about the industry in general.
As someone who uses VR (currently Quest 2) every day for work, play, and/or fitness, plus a longtime Apple fan (I had the first iPhone -yes, I am OLD-, the first iPad, the first Mac computer), I am VERY intrigued about Apple's new device.
Hey! Welcome to the comment section! It's fun down here.. sometimes!
Thanks so much for the kind words! The headset is definitely interesting and the XR3 was the only headset that even came close in terms of specs, capability, and price.. seemed like the most logical comparison!
Excellent review. I agree with your analysis for what's that worth. I'm old enough to have been around for the introduction of the iPhone and I worked in tech for 40 years. I am so glad you continue to provide such quality content!
Definitely a hard sell for general consumer but I can tell who this appeals to. As a 3d modeler, architect, engineer, and game developer I would love to use this.
After watching several videos and reading a slew of articles about the Vision Pro, I think you put it best on who its really for right now and how its going to affect the AR/VR market overall. Also, it was great watching yours and Phia's panel at Furality Sylva this past weekend! :)
As a vr dev since 2014 this is a huge deal and is pretty exciting.
A few points:
1. Apple controller pro will come 100%..
2. This visual fidelity issue is extremely important and puts this in a new class of devices, that will allow for a new class of experiences.
---
IMO your take is the most accurate so far. Very exciting moment for VR!
Apple has officially confirmed they are NEVER releasing tracked motion controllers for Vision OS devices. Just accept that it will never run most traditional VR games right now. It'll be less painful for you that way lol. Apple simply doesn't give a flying shit about that market. This is a computer replacement, NOT a game console one.
@@Cooe. Just wait. Controllers will come... maybe first 3rd party. There are already ways to this and side step apple. The demand will be to high.
I'm just hoping for all the unique features of the vision pro to slowly get open source implementations from indie projects over the years so consumer headsets could become so much more capable and modular with affordable price tags and innovations to boot
the question is will virtual desktop be available for it, and paired with index controllers make it possible to use steamvr, or will they lock it down. I dont get how this is better than a phone, pc, tv, vr headset combo. I can literally buy all of those thing for less than the apple vision. The only positive I see about all of this, is that apple will create an immense hype around VR/AR. This will probably benefit META the most. Quest 3 for 499 is going to fly of the shelves then. Interesting times to say the least!
Apple is known for its "walled garden" business model. This will be extremely locked down as all of their products are
@@anthonypoole4025 which is a shame. People could do some great stuff with that kinda hardware
I appreciate the comparison to the more expensive headset. That’s good to know that it’s actually cheap in its own product category. Apple has made something that seems really cool, I’m excited to try it sometime!
Thanks for making the VR industry a lot easier to understand. Love your videos!
Amazing video! and I agree with everything you said about the Vision Pro, it will only help push everyone else forward, the future of VR looks so fantastic right now, and we are all part of it!!
Your breakdown here was really helpful to frame the way I'm thinking about the Vision Pro and Quest 3, thanks!
I am a bit upset that they do not show any tethered/wireless streaming to the headset. The chip looks pretty powerful though so that was not a huge issue. I then realised it would be running a macos variant and that basically no vr games will run on it. We also did not see any true vr games other than the environment thing. I just am a bit disappointed for the price of 3500 UNITED STATES DOLLARS, I COULD BUY A QUEST 3 AND 3 QUEST PROS
You have to understand that the reason they announced it now is so developers can get to working on it. Of course it’s not gonna have any games yet, but just like everything else, it will get them later down the line. Also vision os is the operating system, not mac os
As a Canadian, after tax Vision pro is over 5 grand… good thing it’s only releasing in the US lol
@@BlitzStudiosIsinsideyourhome Knowing apple the sdk probably will be very bad and they probably will ban for any game modding
@@vip_bimmervip_bimmer8033 Doubt it, remember the first iPhone?
But I think they actually showed that. When it mirrored the laptop after detecting the screen.
Did I just see "cheaper" next to apple? Well I hope you're right thrill. Also very nice it's Tuesday Newsday!!
@@GalacticFoxCat yea I mean the way thrill put it, it is really cheap for what it does and for what it is intended for. Not a vr headset just a, headset
@@GalacticFoxCat It's a productivity and media consumption device/social virtual media device, not a gaming one.
Absolutely amazing analysis and coverage here. Apple needs to invite you to try out the vision pro. This is the best breakdown of what they showed I’ve seen and I’ve watched a ton of coverage. Great job.
Thankyou you changed my whole perspective. Excited and hopeful of what's to come.😀
I know this isn’t really related that much. But it’s surprising. A lot of VR headsets use different ways of tracking. Hand tracking, multiple cameras, and other stuff. But what no VR headsets use is WiFi vision. And it’s honestly really cool because WiFi can literally go through walls, meaning if you cover the camera it can still track. It’s really cool.
Isn't using WiFi for detection super low resolution? It can detect a blob for head, another blob for the body, blobs for parts of the arms, and shoes (not feet). From the research images I've seen, it would be the least accurate form of tracking.
@@travissmith5994 WiFi detects devices through walls, using this you can make a tracker. ruclips.net/video/3SCbd8o0FGM/видео.html that’s where you can get more info
I love the idea of full color pass-through but i already have the quest 2 with all the accessories. Won't be upgrading until it's fully phased out. That or bigscreen gets some more hardware features like color pass-through and or eye tracking. That thing looks amazing
I’ve had the same thought, Bigscreen with color passthrough and eye-tracking. Comfort in VR is king.
Heck no don't load Bigscreen Beyond with extra weight and crap, I am getting tiered of going to the chiropractor. It's weight, comfort and quality is what makes it stand out. Notice nobody is talking about how comfortable or how heavy the Quest 3 or Apple is? Yeah the Q3 is 40% slimmer but it does not mean its lighter. I suspect it has a more heavy battery to power it along with extra hardware that won't actually increase game experiences,.
@@oldtc3615 I do talk about it. The Quest 3 comfort will be better than Quest 2. How much is the big question.
Apple's is said to be on the heavy side, due to it being metal and glass.
Bigscreen could have 2 headsets, one for max comfort, and one with passthrough and eyetracking.
@@NoX-512 I should have said those that actually had hands on these headset are not saying much. I hear some say the Q3 is actually more heavy and others say it's just a little less than Q2. Until they start talking about comfort more it's all speculation. The Apple I expect to be heavy-ish it's loaded with tech and a desktop level processor. And yeah I seen some find that weight to be odd but they don't compare it to other well known headsets for reference. It's going to be a huge joke if it turns out lighter on the head than the Q3 but that's a possibility if you consider the remote mounted battery. Oculus too could build a 2nd headset that is actually a Pro model and not in name only. I am disabled and the Q2 kills me every time I use it. My old Oculus Go I can have on all day but it's not like I can do much on it. You don't see the sugar coating like this however when you see reviews of the VIVE XR Elite.
Hey thrill this is for like not VR topic related but just wanna say I love your music and everything. It helps a lot and I’m constantly listening. Love your videos keep it up ❤
Amazing video bro.. I was waiting for you to talk about it..
Maybe Apple didn't mention "virtual reality" during it's keynote, to stay away from the "dirty laundry" of Meta's metaverse?
I have this feeling they're trying to position this as AR or some sort of "new technology", even though it's existed for a long time.
If you own the hardware, you own the market
Another great video Thrill, always on top of it 😊
Nah, it just isn't VR
No they just call it spatial computing and then pretend they invented it.
I don't much care for the Apple headset but I am very likely getting the Quest 3! I'll be upgrading from a Rift S so the difference to me is gonna be pretty mindblowing I think. I've waited a looooong time for this but I am gonna wait for Thrill's review because of the controllers before I fully commit. I'm excited though!
Thank you for your video on Apple Vision Pro - it was great to finally listen to comparison of the headset and info on which product class it targets.
While skeptical about this headset I am in full agreement on the future it targets. Once we get v3 / v4 with more app support , cloud gaming and price in range of $1,000 it should be a great addition to home ecosystem, even for regular users.
Also very, very interested what the response of the other brands will be, while they can feel safe for now, technology advances at a fast pace and we might see some competition in few years from now.
Exciting times ahead for XR. Looking forward to the future!!!
One really interesting thing is that in a recent interview between Lex Fridman and The Zuck, Zuck basically said that Apple getting into VR at this vector is actually just going to help the Quest line. When both parties win, we as the consumers stand to see some pretty substantial advances in VR.
I think the main thing I get from the Apple Vision Pro is that Apple have basically built their own computer into a XR headset. It's pretty much the Mac for your face. That could also be why it's priced the way it is. If it gets the sales they'd be looking for, it could be what replaces all their other devices including maybe the iPhone.
From what I saw on the demos, it is more like an iPad than a Mac which is a shame. I mean, it doesn't even have a proper exposed filesystem and all of the apps looked like iPad apps. I was hoping it'd be more similar to a Mac but it lets you place screens anywhere, but obviously Apple isn't gonna do that because if they did they'd kill any reason to get a MacBook when you can get something that gives you infinite screens instead of just 1.
Love this take. Obviously it's not going to be exactly like an iPad, iPhone, or Mac; it's a whole new device category for Apple. But the idea that they think this is the future and that this can potentially replace people's laptops is one idea that totally makes sense. It's the very first version. In a couple years we'll see where things are at.
It would have to be useable without damage to the lens outside and carryable around easily like a phone first.
I get the whole replacement for mac thing but who would want a mac that had only a 2 hour battery life?
That's awesome!! I heard about the quest 2 boost but admittedly, as I don't know much about CPU or anything, I was too embarrassed to ask if that meant they were releasing whole new quest tools that are purchased with the boost, but current owners didn't get it or if it was an actual update. I'm so glad it's an update since I already have a quest 😅
Once there is a headset that balances price, video quality, and is small enough to wear for hours on end without hurting your face, VR could possibly become a much larger industry used not only by gamers or creatives but also the common masses. Hopefully its possible because that would be the dream headset for everyone.
As much as I think the Apple Vision Pro will "revolutionize the industry", the fact that they put zero emphasis on gaming makes me think that it's going to flop the same way the Quest Pro did, and it costs half as much as the Vision Pro does. Not to mention how dystopian it looks, something straight out of a black mirror episode.
I doubt it is because compared to the quest pro, apple is putting a heavy emphasis on user interface and ease of use. They’re trying to create an entirely new ecosystem instead of just coming up with another headset
"Compare it apples to apple"
that gave me a laugh
THIS HAS MADE ME EXCITED FOR our FUTURE.... THANK You Thrill, You said exactly what I thought you would...
I really do consider this Apple telling us, "This is where we really at for the next generation; We have it, but it's not fully-baked yet." No way in hell am I forking out 3500 for a set of scuba goggles right now, but the technology is truly impressive and reminds me that Moore's Law still stands.
The apple headet to me is a top tier developer kit, they need people to develop for it, so they later can release a headset for the masses, still going to be at the apple price, but they need apps to sell headsets
This is literally the Apple of Occulus Rift Development Kit. Which is surprising.. I remember using a Development Kit once way back in high school and it was something cool.
ThrillSeeker, I always appreciate your take on VR news! You are great at distilling it all down and adding industry context. I am definitely most excited about the Quest 3 as a PCVR headset. AV1 will be a huge quality boost for wireless VR and I am sure that the devs for Virtual Desktop will implement it as soon as possible. I was blown away by the recent 10bit h.265 implementation on the latest version of Virtual Desktop. Combined with much clearer pancake lenses and a modest boost in resolution, it will potentially be a big upgrade. I am also excited to see what games Team Beef will be able to port to the quest with the extra horsepower of the Quest 3. I wonder if they could bring Virtual Desktop to the Apple headset to allow wireless interfacing with a gaming PC.
Loved seeing your panel at Furality. My boyfriend has exactly the same opinion on the Vision Pro. Interesting to see! Awesome video as always!
Finally, someone who gets the point! It is clear that Apple is opening a brand new section with the Vision Pro. By using the word "Pro," it implies the introduction of a non-Pro, less capable, and more accessible version. Firstly, the use of the M2 silicon, rather than the A15 (iPhone Chip), sets a clear path that this headset will be positioned alongside the iPad Pro and Macs. Secondly, this device does not require an iPhone to function, unlike the Apple Watch; it is its own standalone device. Thirdly, it has its own operating system, the Vision OS. My conclusion is that this headset is just a Developer Kit for the future of VisionOS. I'm positive that Apple will be losing money per headset because packing two close-to-6K screens per eye, along with a front screen, eight cameras, and LiDAR, makes this machine quite expensive to build. However, it will be the spark that ignites the future content for VisionOS and Apple AR.
I had no doubt Apple would have the best hardware when it came to AR/VR headsets. Their vertical integration and supply chain pretty much ensured this. What I think matter even more is whether they are able to present/create a cohesive vision for AR/VR as a whole and sell consumers on it. That is something I've yet to see from Apple, and their presentation for the Vision Pro seems to indicate that they are either still keeping that close to the chest or, more concerningly, don't actually have one yet..
Makes me more excited for the quest 3. That means more people will buy it and I can make more friends in VR
Absolutely 👍
Simply the best summary I have seen or read - you hit it out of the park 🤩 bravo 👏🏻
What’s our last hope of a headset with built in face and eye tracking? New index might have a chance of having it? Or go for the quest pro? That’s really what I’m looking for right now but there’s so much going on I’m not sure if I should wait or not 😩
This is amazing. Games or not I can use this! Hopefully for modeling. I’ll gladly pay $3,500! We need this to succeed.
love the vids as always keep it up thrill!!!
TS, always enjoy your vids and perspective. My only gripe is still the 2 hours. Do you think in the future they will come up with an attachment that extends the battery life? For 3g that's a lotta paper. Either way I'm looking forward to your full review before I consider the purchase. Thanks for the vid.
very nice video... thank you - I've been looking for ways to make my oculus 2 more comfortable and last longer - but also looking for FOV upgrades - or anything better, and you covered everything, thank you!
I am really hoping to get a dev kit for this. If I can get one, I'll be building Godot plugins for it as soon as I can and bark will be on it. If we can, we'll be the first social XR app in this ecosystem. I would love to get there early with an Open source, user friendly, decentralized social XR app.
Honestly, though. I really don't like the first offering from Apple. It remains to be seen what is exposed through their tools and API for this headset and I hope it exposes a lot because I really want to leverage everything... on every platform.
The apple headset is the first thing to give me chills like this since the original oculus dev kit and before that the iPad. We can only go off what they've shown, so there is room for it to fall below what they've promised, but as described it seems like way more than the sum of its parts. I think the seamless integration between AR and VR is critical to the long term adoption of headsets. Eliminating that sense of isolation. Having it be an opt in thing. That is key. I'm also so amazed that it's basically a completely viable PC replacement. Or at least very nearly. If you want to use a mouse and keyboard you can easily do like 95% of regular PC tasks while having the massive benefits of being in a fully immersive VR/AR experience. Idk. I'm kinda blown away. For how stacked the software and hardware combo is 3500 seems downright cheap. Insanely excited. First time I've considered buying an apple product in a long, long time.
if you are going on say a vacation, you could bring a power cable, keyboard, and mouse, and have a fully ar and flatscreen high end gaming pc/device on the go
Thanks for a great revieuw on this, you totaly flipped my opinion on it.
Yo i love these videos, they are honestly so calming, you have a skill for speaking to a community.
thank you for saying EXACTLY what ive been thinking. its been so cringy to hear people who have no idea about this industry talking about the headset. its gonna be a huge catalyst for both sides, both vr and ar :) love your content as always
Yeah, been pretty cringe to see during the unveil so many Apple fans "aLl oTheR hEaDsEt aRe tRaSh nOw !??!" Like these people don't even understand it isn't really in the same device category. And basically isn't for gaming almost at all, at this point. Also 7 X the price lol. But anything that makes VR/AR better and cheaper is good for all of us.
This is not even in the same category as the vr3/xr3. Doesn't replace those at all, it doesnt even best them