There's this "they don't do it like they used to" in the vintage worship. But actually today most guitars are probably made arguably much better on factories than they were then.
No doubt about it. The Japanese Gretsches are far superior in comparison. The Brooklyn made stuff is barely a notch above the guitars from the old Chicago factories that made all the same guitars under the various names Kay, Harmony, Silvertone, etc. etc. that I grew up on from store Christmas catalogs. . But, that being said, there's still magic in old gals like these even when they do need the rotten binding replaced and neck resets.
If the repair needs to be done, then it has to be done. Who really wants a £27,500 wall hanger? You are making it playable again, Ben! Wonderful content, and I can't wait to see the conclusion.
This is like watching Neurosurgery performed by an expert Luthier...as Ben eased the dovetail joint gently up until it popped it made me jump! Love seeing this sort of work.
Its like renovating an old cottage, forget using a level or datums as the eye is the level just like when painting ,the shade is the light if you get my drift sir😂 well done ben , you've come long way but your journey has only just begun ❤
What a horror story, lovely looking instrument that concealed shoddy workmanship/construction! Great to see you back Ben and it will, as ever, be fascinating, entertaining and informative to see you correct this expensive piece! 🥰🍷🍷🎸🎸
It's not shoddy. It's the techniques employed on this instrument. It remains playable after 70 years. As Ben notes, there's something to be said for their production techniques and *not* being overly-obsessed with perfect joinery.
I have to wonder, wouldn't making a shorter bridge saddle be less destructive? There's quite a lot of room there to come down. You can always keep the original in the case.
Do you know the status of the other 13 original production units? People like you make me wish I had taken on this trade 100 years ago when I was young. I do enjoy what you are able to accomplish with all of this six string madness. Having already seen the finished product, my opinion of the "original mojo" - you definitely improved the value of this instrument and I think the improved playability was well worth the effort. Who cares if it looks good if it isn't functional.
Welcome back, yo! (LOL) It really is amazing how imprecise guitars can be, and still sound amazing. (one thing I've learned from watching your Luthier Teardown videos) Centerlines?! Those are more of a rough guide.
I suspect a lot of people would have shaved down the bridge as an easy way out and never even contemplated doing it the correct way, bearing in mind what this instrument is and its value. Can't wait for Part 2.
The creaking sounds as it was coming loose gave me very real anxiety. Sounded like an old wooden sailing ship creaking with the tides. But of course, it was in the safest of hands all along.
I think it's really helpful to see that a vintage instrument is not necessarily well made. The vintage market (and prices) has been out of control for a long time, when ironically there is not much doubt that almost any modern instrument will have been more professionally made and put together. That means you are spending tens of thousands more on 'mojo' rather than any actual reality.
Fully agreed.....just because it's 'vintage' does not mean it's better. There must have been quite a few guitars that the likes of Hendrix must have said "no thanks" when trying them in a guitar shop.....and now those very 'rejected' guitars are fetching a fortune purely based on their age.
Some that I've come across are, at least to me, absolutely unplayable... However "original condition". Just like anything else that's made for profit, corners are very noticeably cut. Most, if not all, of the vintage market is an absolute tone chase. Agreed that modern guitars are much better made with each discovery of new manufacturing techniques.
Some of the worst guitars I’ve ever played were vintage. I had a 1958 Gibson ES-175 that was completely unplayable. It was in fine condition as well. So what do you? Well I’m not a collector. I like to play my instruments on stage. Also I’m not going to have the instrument set up to be a player and ruin the value. So I sold it to a collector in Canada. Win win
If it was originally somewhat off but played and sounded great, I am of the opinion to restore to the same spec/dimensions etc. If it can be significantly improved, then yes. I guess it all depends on the instrument
An Interesting dilemma, Ben. I watch Baumgartner Restorations, a Fine Art restorations channel, where they clean and restore paintings. Everything there, then is to: a) do as minimal intervention as possible to allow the artist's work and technique to be see as they created it b) Where possible to reversible repairs, using reversible materials and adhesives. To leave no trace behind of your work, except to clean the dirt away, as a restorer takes a kind of self-effacement, if not humility, but that's Baumgartner's goal. Watching him do that process is informative, and a technical tour de force, but therapeutic too Now, I also watch furniture restoration channels too, and Thomas Johnson, is like you, a journeyman worth his hire. He's worked on 18th century to mid 20th century furniture, since he was a kid working with his dad. He's healthy user of hide glue on period pieces, but will use modern glues and epoxy. Again, it's getting the job done to have a working piece of furniture, that looks like it hasn't been repaired. But a musical instrument is nearer to voodoo, than furniture or painting, because there is so much subjectivity around the sound an instrument makes. I mean, the amount of different instruments professional session guitarists seem to accumulate is shocking. But each one is loved because the variety of tone and feel that can be extracted out of each instrument by these artists is amazing. So, there is something to be held sacred there. As for the Gretsch, I would where possible make the repair reversible. If a real musician buys it, they'll appreciate the enhanced playability, and probably know how to squeeze out the best performance out of the guitar. If it's going to be acquired as an investment, or as a wall hanger, then it only what matters most is condition and looks.
Vintage Gretsch guitars were always out of my budget (even in the 1980s before they got ridiculous) and I knew a couple repair techs that told me every single instrument that came through their shop needed a neck reset. BTW, vintage Hofners came in and you could see that they didn't bother to drill pilot holes for hardware. That is unthinkable for the modern guitar builder.
Ben. I purchased (about $30) an inspection camera that plugs into my phone. It has led lighting a 1 metre cable and you can even record. Its perfect for doing guitar internal inspections and at the price. there is no excuse for not owning one. Plus, it will make for entertaining content.
You drilling down with the long bit made me think that you are using a much too powerful and heavy drill with too much torque. Maybe a little cordless screwdriver with a drill bit might be easier to control?
Would you still pay 25k knowing how badly it's been constructed. Is the owner shouting NOOOOOO at the screen when you showed the far off centre.....centre line.
I did 1935 Gretsch Artist model 150 neck set and it had excatly same neck mortise and dovetail. Undercutting on neck to body and gaps. Probably the same cutter set up for 20 years.
You should've called, Ben. I could've had that neck off in 3 seconds flat. Seriously though, that's when you know you're a master at your craft. Nice work.
15:43 onwards. Yeah, not all that in quality, being vintage. I know he acknowledges this at the end but, still. Ever since I've learned how to build my own from all these videos and more, I lust even less for vintage/aged/relict instruments.
Your video popped up & I'm clicking immediately if not sooner, no matter what the topic might be. Is that a factory compensated aluminum nut or was that done later?
This might be a silly question, but why did you not take off the entire fretboard before drilling? I would assume it would be hideglued on, and relatively easy to get off?
The neck joint is not supposed to be full contact . It should make full contact at the outer edges,, so their are no gas to the body join, the rest is only a percentage
Welcome back, Ben. You know what? You do you, we'll provide the eyeballs. And I would have been paralyzed in fear trying that... What can I say? Titanium testicles.
One of the first neck resets i ever did was on a vintage Gibson Hummingbird. Gibson acoustic were bad enough for me at that point, with their tight dovetail neck joints. Doing it and waiting for that "CRACK" on an expensive vintage one was terrifying.
We "get" you Ben - but I think "cool beans" just suits you better. Back to the guitar - well said - aiming for perfection can sometimes get in the way of actually creating something that someone will love and never know that there is a cover-up or imperfection (as far as you are concerned) somewhere in the piece. Maybe it is those imperfections that give an instrument its mojo. They pretty much say that about vintage pickups - where the winding machines and the humans running them were much less precise in the number of winds and how they were wound onto the bobbin. So long as you do the best job you can, and it is functional - the rest can sort itself out.
whilst we do try for the perfection of today it is really encouraging to see hand made adjustments on the classics. They do and have played for years and years - no CNC in sight.
You make a valid point about how things were less "perfect" back in them days, and that there's a kind of magic that is lost when things are too perfected. I reckon that someone who clearly loves the craft will put enough magic back into it. All will be well! Looking forward to seeing more of this. I doubt anyone will be disappointed that there will be more episodes!
I can only imagine the pucker factor while drilling into and removing the neck of that guitar and those very valuable ones like it. It only takes one mistake or the failure of the wood itself to ruin the guitars entire value. My cheeks would have been squeezed tight while trying to pull that neck.
Neck reset on a very rare instrument is always good to watch. Ted Woodford seems to get a lot of Gibson and Martin resets to do, but I have not seen him attack one of these. The 6120T is my holy grail guitar, that I will probably never own, and that one is just drop dead gorgeous!
There's this "they don't do it like they used to" in the vintage worship. But actually today most guitars are probably made arguably much better on factories than they were then.
Modern playing has moved the bar a bit as well. The days of playing cowboy chords people didn't have as many options, but also expectations.
No doubt about it. The Japanese Gretsches are far superior in comparison. The Brooklyn made stuff is barely a notch above the guitars from the old Chicago factories that made all the same guitars under the various names Kay, Harmony, Silvertone, etc. etc. that I grew up on from store Christmas catalogs. . But, that being said, there's still magic in old gals like these even when they do need the rotten binding replaced and neck resets.
I love Gretsch guitars but they say of old Gretsch's that every guitar was a prototype. 😅
Welcome back Ben. Home workshop, no distractions, this is your happy place and best work. Love it!
Thanks so much!
My toes tensed up when the wood started to make sounds, glad that part's over. 😳👍
Making an old guitar play great does not take away any mojo, it only adds it.
If the repair needs to be done, then it has to be done. Who really wants a £27,500 wall hanger? You are making it playable again, Ben! Wonderful content, and I can't wait to see the conclusion.
This is like watching Neurosurgery performed by an expert Luthier...as Ben eased the dovetail joint gently up until it popped it made me jump! Love seeing this sort of work.
Ben, thank you so much for your work here!
Thank you for your video's Ben.
My pleasure!
Great to see you back in the home workshop again Ben. Your early home workshop videos helped make me believe I could build guitars too. Thanks fella !
Great to hear!
I love this stuff! Welcome back! hope you are going to live your best life now!
gonna try!
Oh Ben, a repair in what looks to be a Rolex?! Hells teeth!
Thanks for sharing.
Welcome back Yo!
Ian snickering devishely, I'm sure. Well, roasted maple is nice in any case.
I kid, I kid... great job as per usual!
Its like renovating an old cottage, forget using a level or datums as the eye is the level just like when painting ,the shade is the light if you get my drift sir😂 well done ben , you've come long way but your journey has only just begun ❤
Great point!
What a horror story, lovely looking instrument that concealed shoddy workmanship/construction!
Great to see you back Ben and it will, as ever, be fascinating, entertaining and informative to see you correct this expensive piece! 🥰🍷🍷🎸🎸
Many thanks!
It's not shoddy. It's the techniques employed on this instrument. It remains playable after 70 years. As Ben notes, there's something to be said for their production techniques and *not* being overly-obsessed with perfect joinery.
@@mattfinleylive …and you are most welcome to pay thirty grand for it……….!
Wow. Great job Ben.
Welcome back, Ben. Great video, as always.
thank you. Glad to be here.
Fascinating stuff. Welcome back Ben - more like this please👍
Welcome back Ben, take your time, we'll watch no matter what
Great to have you back yo
Before i watched the whole video i was wondering if it has the massive wood screw that Gretsch used at the heel then plugged and sprayed over!
Chet Atkins often despaired of Gretsch’s build quality
When the neck finally came off, I nearly had a heart attack. Mother of all jump-scares.😅
Welcome back, yo!
I have to wonder, wouldn't making a shorter bridge saddle be less destructive? There's quite a lot of room there to come down. You can always keep the original in the case.
Good to see you back doing what you do best, great video😀
Welcome back, yo!
Ben I'm surprised you can walk mate. You've got huge balls of steel.
I would have sh@ my pants if someone had asked me to work on a £27k guitar.
Do you know the status of the other 13 original production units?
People like you make me wish I had taken on this trade 100 years ago when I was young. I do enjoy what you are able to accomplish with all of this six string madness.
Having already seen the finished product, my opinion of the "original mojo" - you definitely improved the value of this instrument and I think the improved playability was well worth the effort. Who cares if it looks good if it isn't functional.
Nerve-wrecking repair job!
Welcome back, yo! (LOL)
It really is amazing how imprecise guitars can be, and still sound amazing. (one thing I've learned from watching your Luthier Teardown videos)
Centerlines?! Those are more of a rough guide.
I suspect a lot of people would have shaved down the bridge as an easy way out and never even contemplated doing it the correct way, bearing in mind what this instrument is and its value. Can't wait for Part 2.
Always tune in to your vids Ben, so informative. Just try to not help Amazon take over the entire retail market???
the moment the neck popped off was frightening! Good job on this precious guitar, Ben
A true pant crapping moment for sure. Yo
The creaking sounds as it was coming loose gave me very real anxiety. Sounded like an old wooden sailing ship creaking with the tides.
But of course, it was in the safest of hands all along.
Looking at that revealed neck joint is a bit like looking into Tutankhamen’s tomb for the first time, I imagine...
Excellent! ❤ What a beauty of a guitar. Doing good stuff here. Can't wait until part 2. Thanks!
Cannot wait for ‘Part Two’ with this Gretsch! Hoping it won’t be TOO long though, Ben. 👍🏼
I think it's really helpful to see that a vintage instrument is not necessarily well made. The vintage market (and prices) has been out of control for a long time, when ironically there is not much doubt that almost any modern instrument will have been more professionally made and put together. That means you are spending tens of thousands more on 'mojo' rather than any actual reality.
I do t think there’s an ho eat person on the planet that thinks old Gretsch’s were better built that any that came out of Japan.
Fully agreed.....just because it's 'vintage' does not mean it's better. There must have been quite a few guitars that the likes of Hendrix must have said "no thanks" when trying them in a guitar shop.....and now those very 'rejected' guitars are fetching a fortune purely based on their age.
Some that I've come across are, at least to me, absolutely unplayable... However "original condition". Just like anything else that's made for profit, corners are very noticeably cut. Most, if not all, of the vintage market is an absolute tone chase. Agreed that modern guitars are much better made with each discovery of new manufacturing techniques.
Modern instruments are not well made because they keep on replicating vintages ones.
These prices are here to stay wether we like it or not…
Some of the worst guitars I’ve ever played were vintage. I had a 1958 Gibson ES-175 that was completely unplayable. It was in fine condition as well. So what do you? Well I’m not a collector. I like to play my instruments on stage. Also I’m not going to have the instrument set up to be a player and ruin the value. So I sold it to a collector in Canada. Win win
Fantastic video. Looking forward to the next one. Never been brave enough to try a glued neck removal yet.
If it was originally somewhat off but played and sounded great, I am of the opinion to restore to the same spec/dimensions etc. If it can be significantly improved, then yes. I guess it all depends on the instrument
Ben, it's great to see you back giving inspiration to people. Loved your tour of the Bell Foundry.
Glad you enjoyed it!
A Benultimate(?) episode! NOW we're back baby!
When that thing popped loose, I jumped a foot.
And I thought stripping fretboard from a neck was scary, I was literally on the edge of my seat on this one.
An Interesting dilemma, Ben. I watch Baumgartner Restorations, a Fine Art restorations channel, where they clean and restore paintings. Everything there, then is to:
a) do as minimal intervention as possible to allow the artist's work and technique to be see as they created it
b) Where possible to reversible repairs, using reversible materials and adhesives.
To leave no trace behind of your work, except to clean the dirt away, as a restorer takes a kind of self-effacement, if not humility, but that's Baumgartner's goal. Watching him do that process is informative, and a technical tour de force, but therapeutic too
Now, I also watch furniture restoration channels too, and Thomas Johnson, is like you, a journeyman worth his hire. He's worked on 18th century to mid 20th century furniture, since he was a kid working with his dad. He's healthy user of hide glue on period pieces, but will use modern glues and epoxy. Again, it's getting the job done to have a working piece of furniture, that looks like it hasn't been repaired.
But a musical instrument is nearer to voodoo, than furniture or painting, because there is so much subjectivity around the sound an instrument makes. I mean, the amount of different instruments professional session guitarists seem to accumulate is shocking. But each one is loved because the variety of tone and feel that can be extracted out of each instrument by these artists is amazing. So, there is something to be held sacred there.
As for the Gretsch, I would where possible make the repair reversible. If a real musician buys it, they'll appreciate the enhanced playability, and probably know how to squeeze out the best performance out of the guitar. If it's going to be acquired as an investment, or as a wall hanger, then it only what matters most is condition and looks.
Vintage Gretsch guitars were always out of my budget (even in the 1980s before they got ridiculous) and I knew a couple repair techs that told me every single instrument that came through their shop needed a neck reset. BTW, vintage Hofners came in and you could see that they didn't bother to drill pilot holes for hardware. That is unthinkable for the modern guitar builder.
Twoodfrd is your friend.
Ben. I purchased (about $30) an inspection camera that plugs into my phone. It has led lighting a 1 metre cable and you can even record. Its perfect for doing guitar internal inspections and at the price. there is no excuse for not owning one. Plus, it will make for entertaining content.
Perfectly imperfect like you Ben , yo.😊❤
Nice to see you back doing what you love.
You drilling down with the long bit made me think that you are using a much too powerful and heavy drill with too much torque. Maybe a little cordless screwdriver with a drill bit might be easier to control?
Would you still pay 25k knowing how badly it's been constructed. Is the owner shouting NOOOOOO at the screen when you showed the far off centre.....centre line.
Welcome back, yo, indeed! And what a guitar to come back on!
If my G6120 1954 Prototype ever needs serious work, I'll be heading across the Atlantic in the hope of getting your help.
I did 1935 Gretsch Artist model 150 neck set and it had excatly same neck mortise and dovetail. Undercutting on neck to body and gaps. Probably the same cutter set up for 20 years.
Mark Knopfler is selling 120 of his guitars at Christies......
Is that the original bigsby? Looks like the original one had smaller screws that were actually on the centre line?
You should've called, Ben. I could've had that neck off in 3 seconds flat.
Seriously though, that's when you know you're a master at your craft. Nice work.
What a fabulous guitar. At £27,500 I would be scared just holding that beast, let alone ripping its neck off.
15:43 onwards. Yeah, not all that in quality, being vintage. I know he acknowledges this at the end but, still. Ever since I've learned how to build my own from all these videos and more, I lust even less for vintage/aged/relict instruments.
didn't Rickenbacker make a "Frying Pan" guitar way way back in the day. Made of Aluminium?
It’s all about the tools and materials used originally versus the tools and materials used by modern Luther’s .
Your video popped up & I'm clicking immediately if not sooner, no matter what the topic might be. Is that a factory compensated aluminum nut or was that done later?
Yo, welcome back dude. Or something....
This might be a silly question, but why did you not take off the entire fretboard before drilling? I would assume it would be hideglued on, and relatively easy to get off?
Yo! Best to see you back tinkering. I think making that neck joint as stable as possible isn't going to mess with any mojos. Chur!
How do you walk so elegantly with those massive steel balls swinging around Ben?
takes practice!
Mate... top respect I know you're an expert but took some balls .. hats off to you !!!
Honestly surprised that you don’t have something covering the top of the guitar to keep from marring it if you drop a tool.
you go and do your magic and I will happily come back later to see your work. Cheers !
I'd guess the mojo isnt in the toan gaps and whichever way you approach the repair wont rob it of that.
The neck joint is not supposed to be full contact . It should make full contact at the outer edges,, so their are no gas to the body join, the rest is only a percentage
I think you should credit Doc of fretted revival for the foam cutter technique
Great video! And btw you have a pretty epic watch collection ;)
Good to see you're getting on top of it all Ben, have missed your helpful nature, take care!
thank you
Steaming dumps on the bedspread - lol!!
Your work is cut out for you. Oh. Not quite! You'll have to do the cutting.
Never been so nervous watching a youtube video…. 😮
My wife uses the same alarm tone on her phone. I thought she’d sneaked up on me.
Anyone else notice at 6:30 that they were holding their breath without realising it?
the center line was more of a suggestion back then
Set of clamps and brass balls to pull that neck off!
Ben you adding you're to mojo To It !!!!!!!
Nope ... making it better for sure!
Loved watching this. Perhaps you'll be adding some mojo by rebuilding the neck joint...
Enjoyed this one and Ben seems to be in better shape.
Welcome back, Ben. You know what? You do you, we'll provide the eyeballs. And I would have been paralyzed in fear trying that... What can I say? Titanium testicles.
It was scary......
One of the first neck resets i ever did was on a vintage Gibson Hummingbird. Gibson acoustic were bad enough for me at that point, with their tight dovetail neck joints. Doing it and waiting for that "CRACK" on an expensive vintage one was terrifying.
Love this. Technical knowledge and experience shining through. So what if its 2 parts or even 3....we'll be watching
We "get" you Ben - but I think "cool beans" just suits you better.
Back to the guitar - well said - aiming for perfection can sometimes get in the way of actually creating something that someone will love and never know that there is a cover-up or imperfection (as far as you are concerned) somewhere in the piece.
Maybe it is those imperfections that give an instrument its mojo. They pretty much say that about vintage pickups - where the winding machines and the humans running them were much less precise in the number of winds and how they were wound onto the bobbin.
So long as you do the best job you can, and it is functional - the rest can sort itself out.
perhaps a metal detector for screws?
Looks like you've studied Ted Woodford a little bit!
whilst we do try for the perfection of today it is really encouraging to see hand made adjustments on the classics. They do and have played for years and years - no CNC in sight.
You make a valid point about how things were less "perfect" back in them days, and that there's a kind of magic that is lost when things are too perfected.
I reckon that someone who clearly loves the craft will put enough magic back into it. All will be well! Looking forward to seeing more of this. I doubt anyone will be disappointed that there will be more episodes!
I can only imagine the pucker factor while drilling into and removing the neck of that guitar and those very valuable ones like it. It only takes one mistake or the failure of the wood itself to ruin the guitars entire value. My cheeks would have been squeezed tight while trying to pull that neck.
It did take a while to work it all out - the videos are well edited!
Thanks for sharing your genius, and your personal plight. Glad you're back. Peace and love from Minnesota.
Neck reset on a very rare instrument is always good to watch. Ted Woodford seems to get a lot of Gibson and Martin resets to do, but I have not seen him attack one of these. The 6120T is my holy grail guitar, that I will probably never own, and that one is just drop dead gorgeous!
Welcome back……. I would be terrified to work on an instrument of that value!
Balls of fucking steel.
At the first creak, I’d have put it back in the case and told the owner to take it somewhere else.
steel balls - yeah! And well hidden panicking.......
11:42 Who are you and what have you done with Ben?