This method is useful when you've run short of gear and want to setup an anchor on 2 bolts with a 60cm sling/alpine draw. The hitch takes up slightly less material and can be handy for those situations. Also the ease of releasing the hitch versus untying a loaded knot is great for my arthritic fingers
Hi Jez, the main reason I'd use a clove hitch anchor is to speed up changeovers at belays. The masterpoint knot isn't too bad to untie because there are more strands in it (although even that isn't super quick for me), but the overhand that you clip either side of like a shelf - I never use that one as it'd take me five mins of swearing at every belay to untie - which really adds up over multiple belays. I'm surprised you don't find the same? I have one of the aramid slings that I use for single pitch which helps with untying knots, but I find they don't rack as nicely when I'm carrying a few for multipitch, so I tend to go for skinny dyneema which I find a b*** to untie!
That’s interesting John. Must admit I don’t normally find it a problem but I’ll definitely give that a bit of thought. One of the things I enjoy about these videos is comments like this that challenge my “norm” 👊
The larks foot can be improved by doing a sliding x before adding the carabiner. That way, even if it were to slip, the sling wont pull through. This ancor can be very useful, because it even works with an alpine quickdraw, when the bolts/protection are close together.
Haha, you literally read my mind had seen this all over insta! Most recently as an example of how to climb in a three which looked a little busy for me. It was the independence I was questioning so you covered everything I thought of. And in six minutes too 😉. One advantage of the standard overhand masterpoint I thought would be having the shelf just for a bit of separation to make things clearer. Great channel man, best advice online hands down. Thanks for the hard work!!
I have used the girth anchor for the last couple of months and must say I am a big fan. It is timely, uses minimal amount of sling, great for hanging belays where an overhand may be hard to untie, and you can easily readjust the girth for optimal distribution which can be quite handy sometimes. Also, as long as you are alternating leads you don't need an extra carabiner as you can clove directly into the mastercarabiner and attach your belay device to the same carabiner (may be a bit more messy, but never had a problem with it). In terms of redundancy I see no problem with the setup. As you mention you need at least 3kn of continuous force for slippage which you never encounter in climbing. Saying that I have started doing a sliding x before I thread the carabiner for ease of mind. Personally, I think its just overall a little bit better than for example an overhand or a girth hitch anchor. Does that warrant the amount of hype it is getting? Probably not, but it has become my go-to setup nowadays :) Great vid!
Since it Works well for winter conditions, I would recommend using it in summer as well. The reason for this is efficiency. Get to know a good system that works in as many situations as possible. Less to learn. Less to choose. faster, easier and therefore safer.
This was all over MP last month or so. Just to let you know, your videos are great! Great info and you’re really starting to build a nice library. Rival AMGA videos on RUclips.
Hi JB, Have you seen the results presented here? There was a case with a slow pull test of a brand new skinny dyneema sling slipping through as low as 1kN (although 2kN was more representative, still not very high for a belay anchor). Results vary quite a lot, but thin dyneema is super slippy. Albert Camus proposes to put a sliding-X in and then doing the girth hitch. The results were much more reassuring - 8kN. He calls it the girth-X. See from 07:20 onwards. The testing was done by Walter Siebert. ruclips.net/video/UMuCkC3jshA/видео.html
For it not be be redundant, wouldn't the sling have to break on one of the legs? Otherwise, the gear would catch in the girth hitch. If it takes the sling breaking, we're talking over 20kn or a slicing of the sling for some reason.
This video (ruclips.net/video/UMuCkC3jshA/видео.html) shows that if one leg of the sling breaks the girth hitch can pull at 1kn... Scary! They suggest an X-variant. I don't like that as you can't tell whether you've created the right or wrong hitch... Much prefer KISS principle: the simple overhand or fig-8
Hi Jess. I have to go and look on Hownottohighline. But, if I remember right, the larks foot belay is not redundant. If one strand breaks it risks to slip trough, and off you go... Edit: and then you adress itin the video. Still worth to have a look...
Hey, thanks for the comment! Those guys do good videos! I have watched the one you're talking about, Truly redundant? Possibly not due to the slip, but redundant to a point? It's a funny one!
If you are swapping leads and the carabiner is large enough, could the person building the belay tie into the master biner with a clove rather than adding another carabiner for the clove? That way you don't need any extra carabiners and because you are swapping leads, the clove can stay in until it is time to take apart the anchor. Great video, long or short, they are all so detailed. Keep it up!
I think it’s a trend. Lots of ice anchors on instagram this winter from American guides saying “this is a euro thing” blah blah blah. who cares, no better, no worse than anything. Personally I prefer using less krabs than more
Great video - really like your stuff! I have to say I don't see any big advantage of the larks foot over the clove hitch as it can be tied one-handed in extremis. But good to know all methods I think!
hello again! Asked a question on a recent video you published about this masterpoint, and then this video showed up in my feed… and I have the same question 🤓. I don’t understand why you can’t use the masterpoint to clove in and to hold the guide plate? Then you wouldn’t need ‘an extra biner’. Would that be unadvisable for some reason? Thanks!
@@brightmatter7 you can, and I sometimes do. But in some circumstances there’s consideration such as what will you partner/s clip into, block leading vs alternating, escaping etc. For example what will your mate clip their carabiner into when they arrive at the stance? Yours that has a clove? Maybe, but what if you’re block leading?
I was thinking they could go with a biner on the opposite side of my clove and the guide plate. Then when I’m ready to go, I can just dump my clove and the guide plate from the master point, they remain behind cloved in on a biner to the master point. Then I’m the same number of biners in as if I used a masterpoint made on a bite? Thanks for the reply and all your awesome content 🙌🏻
Yeah maybe that’s sloppy but with them the furthest from the gate, it doesn’t seem like anything would go wrong - no one climbing, not moving the master point biner at all, just slipping my clove and guide plate off, and leaving theirs alone. Is that dangerous?
Does it make a difference which way up it is? The loading on the single strand is different. Like the winter idea though or use an aramid sling instead?
@@JBMountainSkills if you flip the hitch it puts more force on the single loop which goes over the two strands. I suppose it depends on the direction of the load .
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This method is useful when you've run short of gear and want to setup an anchor on 2 bolts with a 60cm sling/alpine draw. The hitch takes up slightly less material and can be handy for those situations. Also the ease of releasing the hitch versus untying a loaded knot is great for my arthritic fingers
Hi Jez, the main reason I'd use a clove hitch anchor is to speed up changeovers at belays. The masterpoint knot isn't too bad to untie because there are more strands in it (although even that isn't super quick for me), but the overhand that you clip either side of like a shelf - I never use that one as it'd take me five mins of swearing at every belay to untie - which really adds up over multiple belays. I'm surprised you don't find the same?
I have one of the aramid slings that I use for single pitch which helps with untying knots, but I find they don't rack as nicely when I'm carrying a few for multipitch, so I tend to go for skinny dyneema which I find a b*** to untie!
That’s interesting John. Must admit I don’t normally find it a problem but I’ll definitely give that a bit of thought. One of the things I enjoy about these videos is comments like this that challenge my “norm” 👊
@@JBMountainSkills thanks for the reply! Perhaps I'm just clumsy with my fingers!
The larks foot can be improved by doing a sliding x before adding the carabiner.
That way, even if it were to slip, the sling wont pull through.
This ancor can be very useful, because it even works with an alpine quickdraw, when the bolts/protection are close together.
Haha, you literally read my mind had seen this all over insta! Most recently as an example of how to climb in a three which looked a little busy for me. It was the independence I was questioning so you covered everything I thought of. And in six minutes too 😉.
One advantage of the standard overhand masterpoint I thought would be having the shelf just for a bit of separation to make things clearer.
Great channel man, best advice online hands down. Thanks for the hard work!!
to note, you do have a shelf with those anchors too (given you don't take the main carabiner off hehe)
Glad you liked it :)
As with the other comment, you do get a shelf, but lose the advantages of that shelf really.
I have used the girth anchor for the last couple of months and must say I am a big fan. It is timely, uses minimal amount of sling, great for hanging belays where an overhand may be hard to untie, and you can easily readjust the girth for optimal distribution which can be quite handy sometimes. Also, as long as you are alternating leads you don't need an extra carabiner as you can clove directly into the mastercarabiner and attach your belay device to the same carabiner (may be a bit more messy, but never had a problem with it). In terms of redundancy I see no problem with the setup. As you mention you need at least 3kn of continuous force for slippage which you never encounter in climbing. Saying that I have started doing a sliding x before I thread the carabiner for ease of mind. Personally, I think its just overall a little bit better than for example an overhand or a girth hitch anchor. Does that warrant the amount of hype it is getting? Probably not, but it has become my go-to setup nowadays :) Great vid!
Since it Works well for winter conditions, I would recommend using it in summer as well.
The reason for this is efficiency. Get to know a good system that works in as many situations as possible. Less to learn. Less to choose. faster, easier and therefore safer.
Possibly, just the more options the better but we all end up with our favourite "go to" methods.
This was all over MP last month or so. Just to let you know, your videos are great! Great info and you’re really starting to build a nice library. Rival AMGA videos on RUclips.
That's very kind, thanks you!
6 minute Tuesday, Who knew:). Like the idea for girth hitch for winter , going to have to practice that one.
Hi JB, Have you seen the results presented here? There was a case with a slow pull test of a brand new skinny dyneema sling slipping through as low as 1kN (although 2kN was more representative, still not very high for a belay anchor). Results vary quite a lot, but thin dyneema is super slippy.
Albert Camus proposes to put a sliding-X in and then doing the girth hitch. The results were much more reassuring - 8kN. He calls it the girth-X. See from 07:20 onwards. The testing was done by Walter Siebert.
ruclips.net/video/UMuCkC3jshA/видео.html
For it not be be redundant, wouldn't the sling have to break on one of the legs? Otherwise, the gear would catch in the girth hitch. If it takes the sling breaking, we're talking over 20kn or a slicing of the sling for some reason.
This video (ruclips.net/video/UMuCkC3jshA/видео.html) shows that if one leg of the sling breaks the girth hitch can pull at 1kn... Scary! They suggest an X-variant. I don't like that as you can't tell whether you've created the right or wrong hitch... Much prefer KISS principle: the simple overhand or fig-8
Answered my question right at the end there. What if it blows? Cheers Jez, there's a coffee on me.
Very kind!
Hi Jess.
I have to go and look on Hownottohighline. But, if I remember right, the larks foot belay is not redundant. If one strand breaks it risks to slip trough, and off you go...
Edit: and then you adress itin the video. Still worth to have a look...
Hey, thanks for the comment! Those guys do good videos! I have watched the one you're talking about, Truly redundant? Possibly not due to the slip, but redundant to a point? It's a funny one!
If you are swapping leads and the carabiner is large enough, could the person building the belay tie into the master biner with a clove rather than adding another carabiner for the clove? That way you don't need any extra carabiners and because you are swapping leads, the clove can stay in until it is time to take apart the anchor. Great video, long or short, they are all so detailed. Keep it up!
Yes, definitely! Only downside is it's a fraction less escapable easily. I'd rather keep everything separated if possible.
@@JBMountainSkills that makes sense
I think it’s a trend. Lots of ice anchors on instagram this winter from American guides saying “this is a euro thing” blah blah blah. who cares, no better, no worse than anything. Personally I prefer using less krabs than more
Great video - really like your stuff!
I have to say I don't see any big advantage of the larks foot over the clove hitch as it can be tied one-handed in extremis. But good to know all methods I think!
Glad you liked it!
hello again! Asked a question on a recent video you published about this masterpoint, and then this video showed up in my feed… and I have the same question 🤓. I don’t understand why you can’t use the masterpoint to clove in and to hold the guide plate? Then you wouldn’t need ‘an extra biner’. Would that be unadvisable for some reason? Thanks!
@@brightmatter7 you can, and I sometimes do. But in some circumstances there’s consideration such as what will you partner/s clip into, block leading vs alternating, escaping etc.
For example what will your mate clip their carabiner into when they arrive at the stance? Yours that has a clove? Maybe, but what if you’re block leading?
I was thinking they could go with a biner on the opposite side of my clove and the guide plate. Then when I’m ready to go, I can just dump my clove and the guide plate from the master point, they remain behind cloved in on a biner to the master point. Then I’m the same number of biners in as if I used a masterpoint made on a bite? Thanks for the reply and all your awesome content 🙌🏻
@@brightmatter7 but you’d be opening a carabiner that at least one person is relying on in your explanation? Sorry if I’ve misunderstood.
Yeah maybe that’s sloppy but with them the furthest from the gate, it doesn’t seem like anything would go wrong - no one climbing, not moving the master point biner at all, just slipping my clove and guide plate off, and leaving theirs alone. Is that dangerous?
@@brightmatter7 up to you! Requires judgement and sometimes may be ok, others not.
Personally I don’t see much point…
Not sure if it's a fashion thing, may be, but pretty sure this had been a thing with Dolomite guides for quite a while.
Yeah it's definitely been used a lot for a long time, just "fashionable" in the sense that it's all over insta etc!
Lark's Head is the correct term for this hitch...
igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5206.0
Cheers
Does it make a difference which way up it is? The loading on the single strand is different. Like the winter idea though or use an aramid sling instead?
Which way up what is?
In winter I may still do this even with an aramid sling :)
@@JBMountainSkills if you flip the hitch it puts more force on the single loop which goes over the two strands. I suppose it depends on the direction of the load .
Girth hitch x sliding X = girth X
Love your videos! Maybe get a clip-on mic so we can hear what you have to say a bit better?
Had no problem hearing. My maybe crank the volume on your device? Cheers