The drinking skit really got me since that color red is almost the exact same as the grease we used in Bloodsport magmotor gearboxes lol. Magmotors served us well for years! But we have a new brushless drive I've developed, as the benefits can be pretty great once you overcome the VESC tuning pain.
One thing I wonder here is if this is the optimal fan for the job. We are looking at a fair bit of a construction in the air path, and that usually comes with a requirement for high static pressures. Would it make sense to check how a blower fan performs on cooling? They generally have much higher static pressures, but much less airflow than axial fans. Durability would also be a concern, though I can't readily think of anything even remotely approximating the conditions inside a Bot, and the fan or airduct failure is obviously a concern!
I was always genuinely curious what drive motors the larger bots use! It was awesome that you showed us more about the motors and the new cooling method, I am now curious if I could apply this method on a smaller scale for a 3lb or even 1lb🤔
When I was in school I was part of a programme where we endurance raced small electric cars powered by spec 24V motors. We did exactly the same thing you're doing here, but because the motors were sealed we had to put the motor on the mill and very carefully machine holes in the caps while someone held a vacuum cleaner next to the endmill to suck the chips out. It actually worked, but resulted in a whole new line in the rulebook making it clear that just because you didn't remove the anti-tamper stickers, you still tampered with it!
@@BotvacProductions469- Ah, well... Er... Does the word 'glans' mean anything to you? It's the end of the boy-thing that can't be mentioned on RUclips and which is shaped vaguely like a bell. If you shorten the name 'Richard' to its colloquial form (like 'Rick' but beginning with a 'd'), that's what a bell-end is. RUclips makes normal conversation soooooo difficult.
@@EleanorPetersonOh, for some reason I had been under the false impression that it referred to the buttocks. (I guess maybe partially because he described the back (/rear end) of the motor with that term?) Thanks for the clarification!
A lot of great tips and tricks in this builder video. I really need me one of those pickles. I'm wondering how durable those fans will be. Might be able to mount them to a TPU case to reduce shock.
It's a rare scenario where active cooling is the preferred option for combat robotics. Usually the three-minute runtime of the bot means you're better off dumping the heat into a thermal block (a lump of copper) instead. Or just getting a motor that gives the performance required without cooking itself.
Im still using an 1984 OZO CNC drill with a DOS machine with composite green screen but I did convert the 5 inch floppy to 3.5. Found your channel today and subscribe and plan on binge watching tonight. Thank you for sharing
Most bots with a big vert or horizontal don't need it, the weapon creates so much airflow in the chassis that they are fine "passively" cooled. But bots like Skorpios where the weapon is on the end of an arm just flopping in the wind or old school bots like Vlad the Impaler without a spinner on the front could use some extra air movement inside the chassis. The ducting comes with some downsides though, any loose debris inside the bot is now going to get sucked into the brush housing of the motor so better hope there is a bit of mesh or something to keep all that contained. You can see that quite clearly with Vlads setup.
Very cool insight into the drive. One question that stood out to me. Are you not worried about dust and particulates getting sucked into the motor housing?
@6:57 - WHAT THE ACTUAL WHAT. Y'all mad. Crazy. Loco in the coco! Also, holy crap get a hard drive image off that mill controller RIGHT NOW and virtualize it. I am quivering in terror about that machine giving up the ghost (though that may be the second pot of coffee speaking).
Funniest sponsor commercial ever 😂Magmotor mugs made from motors that served in Skorpios fights could be fun merchandise. And collector's items now that no more motors will die
Good idea, but you also should take precious to flamethrower 🔥, so the flame can melt the fan and go all the way into the motor. My Idea 💡 would be a dry ice reservoir in front of the fan. Dry ice is CO2 and extinguishes the Flame and cool ❄️ the motors really good. There are more benefits like not burning the Cole, less sparks, in case of a battery fire the rest won't burn (that fast)
I have a very weird idea for a robot: a normal bit but with an 3D printer esc moving arm sticking out high above the opponent, that arm has a power switch key on it, this is how the robot will work: first the robot pins the opponent then censors on the arm scan the opponent for an power switch, then after its found the arm will lower the key into the power switch, then the key turns turning the opponent off
@@cheese.161 interesting idea but just about impossible to successfully implement even for an experienced and well resourced team. Your weapon relies on getting extremely fine timed control to successfully access the failsafe mechanism and use it to physically deactivate the opponent. It's unlikely you'd succeed because robot combat is an extremely fast moving, dynamic and unpredictable situation and you'd probably get smashed up before you could put it into use.
No RGB on the fan? :C Jokes aside, do you have a plan for like speed vents to get "fresh" (not pre-skorpios heated) air through the motors more reliably, or is the passive internal air intake good enough to remain efficient in a match?
Thank you Mr. Zach, That made me feel extra old and losery. I'm older than you and haven't done anything CLOSE to what you've accomplished. LMAO Miss Diana singing at the end was hilarious.
Found it interesting you decided to blow air from the fan into the motor instead of pulling air through the motor to the fan. Any reason you chose that path?
@Skorpios Battlebot, Hey Zack would it be possible to use a liquid cooling system on a BattelBot (like the onse on a PC)? "Long screws go into this gap" yea that's what she said...lol
A lot of things on Battlebots get crushed and crumpled and keeping a watertight system from not leaking into our electronics as it flies through the air did not seem like a good idea. However, I have heard of people stuffing dry ice around their motors and letting it burn off during the match. If this is not enough, that was the next approach we were going to take.
@@SkorpiosBattlebot yeah Ripperoni is who you're thinking of with the dry ice. Their team captain Anna Zolnikov mentioned it in one of those end of show segments where Kenny and Chris bring out a team member to explain what happened in a fight during season 7. Maybe there's other teams doing this as well but that's the only example I can recall of the top of my head. Whyachi have the water in a sealed off compartment if I recall correctly and if anyone knows how to build a robot it's those guys (and you as well haha).
@@eighty2018 @eighty2018 well Fusion is brushless plus 3 separate electrical systems so 6 motors/speed controllers one for each weapon & one each for both sides of the drive so they've got a huge amount of complexity to deal with, more than most and that unfortunately creates major problems but i think they should be able to find a way around it. They're more than experienced and competent enough.
If you really think about it, the mag plus the whyachi gearboxes looks kind of like a very large n20 motor with a bronze gearbox. Ironic right? The smallest combat robot motor looks like the biggest combat robot motor.
Ouf stock cooling of that motor looks bad. Tesla motors are oil bath cooled for the coils and outrunners are open. Running a closed motor in todays enviroment is so oldschool.
Brushed DC motors are still great for things like drive since you basically get infinite torque at 0 rpm and the speed controllers are a lot (well, 1/3rds) simpler so you can have a more heavy duty (= more power) speed controller for the same size. The only reason to move your drive to brushless is if you want to save a bunch of weight in the motors and build a smaller bot, but for a bot like Skorpios they work fine and reliable. The Whyachi gearboxes have had a long history of excellent performance and durability, as long as you have the money for it and have the space a lot of builders wouldn't want anything else.
Hey, this is Mike. I met you and your lovely wife at Robogames 2 years ago and I was there with Gage this last year. If you need some questions on that since I helped maintain that system, let me know. I can let you know anything that I might remember. It’s been some time. Good luck.
The drinking skit was halarious, did not expect the liquid lmao
Only thing I would suggest it adding a wire grille (or a CNC'd one) over the fan to make sure nothing gets sucked into it.
The drinking skit really got me since that color red is almost the exact same as the grease we used in Bloodsport magmotor gearboxes lol. Magmotors served us well for years! But we have a new brushless drive I've developed, as the benefits can be pretty great once you overcome the VESC tuning pain.
One thing I wonder here is if this is the optimal fan for the job. We are looking at a fair bit of a construction in the air path, and that usually comes with a requirement for high static pressures.
Would it make sense to check how a blower fan performs on cooling? They generally have much higher static pressures, but much less airflow than axial fans. Durability would also be a concern, though I can't readily think of anything even remotely approximating the conditions inside a Bot, and the fan or airduct failure is obviously a concern!
I have a late 90s desktop build in that exact same case, running Windows 95.
Even Pinkie Pie is eyeing up your Mag-Motors - And that shot of the inside of Vlad is amazing, I'm glad its still around!
I was always genuinely curious what drive motors the larger bots use! It was awesome that you showed us more about the motors and the new cooling method, I am now curious if I could apply this method on a smaller scale for a 3lb or even 1lb🤔
Can't believe battlebots faceoffs is finally here!!!!!
I’m excited
So I take it you've drunk the Kool-Aid on Magmotor.
When I was in school I was part of a programme where we endurance raced small electric cars powered by spec 24V motors. We did exactly the same thing you're doing here, but because the motors were sealed we had to put the motor on the mill and very carefully machine holes in the caps while someone held a vacuum cleaner next to the endmill to suck the chips out. It actually worked, but resulted in a whole new line in the rulebook making it clear that just because you didn't remove the anti-tamper stickers, you still tampered with it!
You should check out what some of the old NASCAR teams did to get around rules like this ;-) Even the 'You still tampered with it!' part!
@@TheBlackEventorizonthe good ole basketball in the gas tank
@@americankiwi I was thinking more acid dipping the body or having a 6in diameter fuel line running to the tank 😆
At 2:38 Zach be careful you don't know what a bell end means to us brits 🤐🤣🤣
I was assuming he said it deliberately :)
what does it mean? im not from britain
@@BotvacProductions469- Ah, well... Er... Does the word 'glans' mean anything to you? It's the end of the boy-thing that can't be mentioned on RUclips and which is shaped vaguely like a bell.
If you shorten the name 'Richard' to its colloquial form (like 'Rick' but beginning with a 'd'), that's what a bell-end is.
RUclips makes normal conversation soooooo difficult.
@@EleanorPetersonOh, for some reason I had been under the false impression that it referred to the buttocks.
(I guess maybe partially because he described the back (/rear end) of the motor with that term?)
Thanks for the clarification!
@@EleanorPeterson i dont get it :|
Those holes could weaken the motor?
Zach mate you had the perfect opportunity to call it your MAGsterpiece!
The hammer on the bot goes smash smash smash...
Using a floppy got my subscription
A lot of great tips and tricks in this builder video. I really need me one of those pickles. I'm wondering how durable those fans will be. Might be able to mount them to a TPU case to reduce shock.
Did you measure motor temps before and after the cooling vents were machined?
It's a rare scenario where active cooling is the preferred option for combat robotics. Usually the three-minute runtime of the bot means you're better off dumping the heat into a thermal block (a lump of copper) instead. Or just getting a motor that gives the performance required without cooking itself.
Huh, neat. Thanks for teaching us the secrets of Skorpios, Zach! I'm definitely not opening a new tab to shop for Magmotors right now
Im still using an 1984 OZO CNC drill with a DOS machine with composite green screen but I did convert the 5 inch floppy to 3.5. Found your channel today and subscribe and plan on binge watching tonight. Thank you for sharing
This will definitely turn the tables from preventing the batteries to catch on fire. Oldie but Goodie 👍👍👌👌
Congrats on getting (literally) Skorpios' biggest fan
i bet this has been a long time comming, now watch next season half the fieled will be running "ducted motor"
Most bots with a big vert or horizontal don't need it, the weapon creates so much airflow in the chassis that they are fine "passively" cooled. But bots like Skorpios where the weapon is on the end of an arm just flopping in the wind or old school bots like Vlad the Impaler without a spinner on the front could use some extra air movement inside the chassis.
The ducting comes with some downsides though, any loose debris inside the bot is now going to get sucked into the brush housing of the motor so better hope there is a bit of mesh or something to keep all that contained. You can see that quite clearly with Vlads setup.
The wheels on the bot go round and round… all through the fight!
17:33 I do believe the magmotor driven Tombstone is what will be at its Faceoffs bracket in December
Very cool insight into the drive. One question that stood out to me. Are you not worried about dust and particulates getting sucked into the motor housing?
I will admit that is a concern
Put some air cleaner filter foam over fan intake. Better safe than dirty...😮
@6:57 - WHAT THE ACTUAL WHAT. Y'all mad. Crazy. Loco in the coco!
Also, holy crap get a hard drive image off that mill controller RIGHT NOW and virtualize it. I am quivering in terror about that machine giving up the ghost (though that may be the second pot of coffee speaking).
Funniest sponsor commercial ever 😂Magmotor mugs made from motors that served in Skorpios fights could be fun merchandise. And collector's items now that no more motors will die
Is there a difference between magmotors and ampflow motors? They look almost identical except for the shape of the brush housing
Good idea, but you also should take precious to flamethrower 🔥, so the flame can melt the fan and go all the way into the motor.
My Idea 💡 would be a dry ice reservoir in front of the fan. Dry ice is CO2 and extinguishes the Flame and cool ❄️ the motors really good.
There are more benefits like not burning the Cole, less sparks, in case of a battery fire the rest won't burn (that fast)
You probably can clean up the collectors on a lathe as well, so it runs great again with new brushes.
Awesome! Once again this was such a cool look under the hood!
Thank you!!
Could the fan blow dust or debris into the motor? Would some filtering be wise?
It probably could but long-term reliability is less of a concern than max performance
This is a concern
I’m first going to see if this fixes the overheat issue .
And if it does, I will then figure out the best way to seal it
I have a very weird idea for a robot: a normal bit but with an 3D printer esc moving arm sticking out high above the opponent, that arm has a power switch key on it, this is how the robot will work: first the robot pins the opponent then censors on the arm scan the opponent for an power switch, then after its found the arm will lower the key into the power switch, then the key turns turning the opponent off
@@cheese.161 interesting idea but just about impossible to successfully implement even for an experienced and well resourced team. Your weapon relies on getting extremely fine timed control to successfully access the failsafe mechanism and use it to physically deactivate the opponent. It's unlikely you'd succeed because robot combat is an extremely fast moving, dynamic and unpredictable situation and you'd probably get smashed up before you could put it into use.
love the disk 💾
brushless motor: "I simply don't exist"
No RGB on the fan? :C
Jokes aside, do you have a plan for like speed vents to get "fresh" (not pre-skorpios heated) air through the motors more reliably, or is the passive internal air intake good enough to remain efficient in a match?
Thank you Mr. Zach, That made me feel extra old and losery. I'm older than you and haven't done anything CLOSE to what you've accomplished.
LMAO Miss Diana singing at the end was hilarious.
i hope youre doing okay after the whole cafionated lemonade fiasco
I am doing better I actually recorded this before the incident. I was waiting for the mag motor to approve it. I have been trying to take it easy.
@@SkorpiosBattlebot happy to hear! :)
Now on inlet side of fan cannot you mill a chiller manifold and run cold fuil through it?
I love me some floppy disks. Idea for a new bot?
That is brilliant. 😊
Found it interesting you decided to blow air from the fan into the motor instead of pulling air through the motor to the fan. Any reason you chose that path?
I was the airflow pattern from Vlad the Impaler. That was how he was doing it and I didn’t give it much thought.
@Skorpios Battlebot, Hey Zack would it be possible to use a liquid cooling system on a BattelBot (like the onse on a PC)? "Long screws go into this gap" yea that's what she said...lol
Both Hydra and Fusion use water based active cooling for their speed controllers but they're the only example of a team doing this that I'm aware of.
@@TheInvertedFollicle507Fusion lol, it's obvious that cooling system is working wonders for them
A lot of things on Battlebots get crushed and crumpled and keeping a watertight system from not leaking into our electronics as it flies through the air did not seem like a good idea.
However, I have heard of people stuffing dry ice around their motors and letting it burn off during the match. If this is not enough, that was the next approach we were going to take.
@@SkorpiosBattlebot yeah Ripperoni is who you're thinking of with the dry ice. Their team captain Anna Zolnikov mentioned it in one of those end of show segments where Kenny and Chris bring out a team member to explain what happened in a fight during season 7.
Maybe there's other teams doing this as well but that's the only example I can recall of the top of my head.
Whyachi have the water in a sealed off compartment if I recall correctly and if anyone knows how to build a robot it's those guys (and you as well haha).
@@eighty2018 @eighty2018 well Fusion is brushless plus 3 separate electrical systems so 6 motors/speed controllers one for each weapon & one each for both sides of the drive so they've got a huge amount of complexity to deal with, more than most and that unfortunately creates major problems but i think they should be able to find a way around it. They're more than experienced and competent enough.
If you really think about it, the mag plus the whyachi gearboxes looks kind of like a very large n20 motor with a bronze gearbox. Ironic right? The smallest combat robot motor looks like the biggest combat robot motor.
The really long mag
imagine you can put an intel stock cooler on the motor
11:55 like tombstone?
All through the town? That seems dangerous.
Ouf stock cooling of that motor looks bad. Tesla motors are oil bath cooled for the coils and outrunners are open. Running a closed motor in todays enviroment is so oldschool.
hi pinkie
Wow... A floppy disk. Haven't seen one of those since the US war of independence.
Imagine using mag motors and whyachi gearboxes in 2024 😂
I know almost nothing about heavyweight electronics
Brushed DC motors are still great for things like drive since you basically get infinite torque at 0 rpm and the speed controllers are a lot (well, 1/3rds) simpler so you can have a more heavy duty (= more power) speed controller for the same size. The only reason to move your drive to brushless is if you want to save a bunch of weight in the motors and build a smaller bot, but for a bot like Skorpios they work fine and reliable.
The Whyachi gearboxes have had a long history of excellent performance and durability, as long as you have the money for it and have the space a lot of builders wouldn't want anything else.
Hey, this is Mike. I met you and your lovely wife at Robogames 2 years ago and I was there with Gage this last year. If you need some questions on that since I helped maintain that system, let me know. I can let you know anything that I might remember. It’s been some time. Good luck.