There is no „diesel emissions management“. VW cheapened out, their diesels now come with dual urea exhaust treatment and comply with all kinds of standards.
Projected stock price for quantum scape in the next couple years is that it will hit over $100 per share. Currently the stock is below nine dollars per share. It would be smart to put at least $1000 into it now and sit back and wait and see what happens of course that’s if you have that kind of money to possibly lose but I don’t think it’s a bad idea
Equally important: the specific (or "gravimetric") energy density (in Wh/kg) and the volumetric energy density (in Wh/liter). Apparently, QuantumScape has reached 375 Wh/kg in the lab with their hybrid SSD battery cells, "independently verified by 3rd-party" which is very good. Also good, their projected commercial goal for volumetric energy density at 1,000 Wh/l. To put things in perspective, first Tesla Model Y with Panasonic's 4680 NCA cells: ~ 271 Wh/kg and 750 Wh/l Geely's LFP "Golden" battery, which is commercially available, has a specific energy density of 255 Wh/kg, on par with common NMC batteries. Typical LFP batteries in EVs on the market today are around 150 Wh/kg only. However, the Chinese have in the lab lithium batteries offering insane numbers: 711 Wh/kg and 1653.65 Wh/liter! Not available in any EV currently of course.
Actually the first 4680's where more like 240 w/kg where the 2170's are 270 wh/kg at least that is what I have read . Generation 2 of the 4680 is around 270 w/kg only in the Cyber Truck for now. I thought the first 4680's are entirely Tesla made.
That claim about QS' cell energy density of 375 Wh/kg is totally false. QuantumScape has not released any information about their A samples' energy density nor has any "independent 3rd party" tested and "verified" their energy density. Stop spreading fabricated information. QuantumScape is at least a year away from having a cell that is production worthy. The cells VW and the rest of QuantumScape's prospective customers have are for testing and to provide feedback for their next generation of B sample cells produced using more scaled production processes.
I like your presentation and explanation. I wish you would show actual sources/publications that you draw your conclusions from. Like this it is purely speculative and we have to rely on your "opinion" without knowing where and how you obtain your knowledge (mainstream media)
Much will depend on how long it will take to bring these out of the lab and into practical use. The next challenge is mass production and delivering these at scale. If this is true, demand for these batteries will go through the roof. A solid-state battery with all of the characteristics described here would tip the balance and seal the fate of ICE vehicles. It would also put VW back into the game as of late; what they offer could be more impressive. Let's see how long it will take to see these in production vehicles.
True, but then there is even another bigger challenge: All days we have tons of news about "miracle" technologies that will change all the EV market and kill the ICE cars. It is round the clock, really. Problem is: Too many technologies, some incompatible with the next one, and nobody really knows what is the real possibilities to some of them to become real production ones. All the current battery providers have done a strong investment for the current generation battery supply chain. They'll most likely to go on for small incremental gains with same technology base, before they start to adapt factories for the next big thing. With massive transition still in the beginning with the current generation technology; I can't see any purpose for the next gen to be deployed yet to the public. Too early to say the least. Current cars can go up to an average of real autonomy driving on the ~300-500Km with a single charge depending on the car segment. More than enough for most folks. Extremely big batteries will perhaps to have a challenge nobody seems to be bearing in mind: Unused energy loss. You'll probably to pay for energy you don't consume at the day, unless you really need to do those extremely big travels daily. Things are not that easy... If possible; battery suppliers will run to the ~400-600Km average single charge real driving autonomy depending on the car segment till this decade ends out within the same technology base. I don't predict anything more significant out there commercially that soon, other than some development on the Sodium batteries that seems to be real at least for the smaller cars soon.
@@nunagoras I don't expect any great breakthroughs any time soon either. The EV sector continues to grow and once we get some decently priced vehicles with good range which charge rapidly then its game over for the ICE sector. I think the major problem at this point is pricing. EVs remain very expensive and few can afford them.
I’m excited about that idea provided it’s not just vaporware if it really happens I’ll be in early adopter but I’ve been listening to the same conversation for three years
I am having a problem with the claim of '300000 miles' on what car was it tested? Under what conditions, using what motors, what is the battery pack co figuration and capacity? What is the energy efficiency? What they should have published is dry data. X batteries tested with Y capacity wach over Z charge/discharge cycles and retained some % of capacity with some %of failures if any.
@@jamesvandamme7786 They don't exactly sound scientific when the main claim of "lasting 300,000 miles' is not only unsubstantiated by anything. but is vague and misleading. Doesn't matter how old the claim is.
@@dgurevich1 It's based on cycles. They achieved some number of charge-discharges in the lab, then some genius in the marketing department who can multiply (with a calculator) figured that with a certain size car which gets a certain amount of WH per mile, times the battery size times cycles, voila you get 300K. This is like the LED bulbs that all say "50,000 hours life" when that only refers to the LED chips at a controlled temperature and doesn't account for the electronics. So let's see how long they last with shock & vibration, temp cycling, all the rest.
I have been in on QuantumScape for a few years. It has been my bit coin play. Pure speculation, but the company impressed me with their dogged methodical style. I hope that they can make this work, really could be game changing.
QSE-5 is production of single cell batteries with a 5ah capacity, the same capacity that is in an iPhone and expects to be up and running later this year. Quantumscape is working with a potential CE customer(s) right now.
Even more impressive is capacity preservation during fast charging (10-15 min from 10% to 80%). Even with a 10 min fast charge, the QS cell is able to retain >80% capacity after >800 cycles with 100% discharge. This is a game changer for Lithium-ion battery longevity, even under extreme charging conditions. Keep in mind this is based on QS data, however keep in mind QS has consistently been proven right about their claims, for the past 3 years.
This is a press release from Quantumscape from 2022! That VW releases it now smells of a PR move. Like Toyotas solid state batteries from 20 years ago.
I trust Alex Jones more than trusting this battery will give you any of its claims. As long as its about a EV you can say whatever you want and 99% of the people will believe it.
Production starts this year from their 1GWh pilot facility at 30% of its capacity. This means they will have revenues to report this year. Next year it’s forecasted at 80% capacity. This is about 8000 vehicles. In 2026 it will be more transformative since expansion facility (20GWh) starts production at 25% capacity. All good from hereon in.
What about energy density ? What about performance in low/high temperatures? Or dose it self discharge or degrade over time even if it is not being cycled?
QuantumScape claimed energy densities of 380-500 Wh/kg and 800-1000 Wh/liter in 2021, and in 2023, they were saying as high as 500 Wh/kg, but they haven't released specific numbers. In earlier tests, they claimed 400 charging cycles with 4C charging (13.3 mA/cm2), going from 10% of capacity to full (4.2V) in 15 minutes, with C/3 charging from 0% to 10% of capacity. See AutoEvolution's article "QuantumScape Is Happy With Its SSB, But Shouldn't It Fear CATL's Condensed Cells?"
The real experiment was 95% capacity retention after 1000 charge-discharge cycles. As for 300k miles would only be valid if one charge had 300 miles range.
Who cares if the charges was for 300, 200 or even 2 miles. The point here is that after 300,000 miles it still retain 95% capacity and that's the amazing fact. No cars would ever reach that distance anyway. Get real Rashius!
@@DolipraneDude There is no after 300,000 miles, in fact.. there wasn't even a car involved. They were only testing QS batteries in a lab and it retained 95% after 1000 cycles. They only extrapolated that to if they put enough batteries of that kind in a car for 300 miles range, that car would retain 95% capacity after 300,000 miles. You get Real!
The data may not be available but what percentage failed before getting to 300,000 miles? That is also a key metric. We see EV batteries jump from 5% degradation to "won't charge / need replacement" in which case degradation is maybe the 2nd priority data point over failure.
@@connclissmann6514 And some 5-15 years of work for the Material Dynamics Engineering Team - among others - to collect that data and improve the solution for mass market production after all the concept proof is done. So, basically, if they only finalized concept proof today, one will only to know those details from 2029 to 2039 at best. This is why I find that information promising... But just that for now. We need to calm down on those "miracle technologies" that can to come... But that can to fail either!...
What I've read is that most of the time when a battery suddenly fails like the problem isn't even the battery cells, but some random wire or temperature sensor inside the battery pack going bad. Unless the car markers can be bothered to construct the battery so that one faulty sensor doesn't invalidate the entire pack, how many cycles the physical cells can be charged and discharged may not matter.
@@ab-tf5fl Exactly, I mean it is anecdotal but there don't seem to be loads of videos on youtube where range has gradually dropped from 300 to 150 and the person has decided to replace the battery, it seems to be far more a case of: I only had 10% degradation and then suddenly it wouldn't charge etc.
The situation with QuantumScape's battery is a bit nuanced, and it's not technically pure 100% solid-state in the strictest sense. While it offers many of the advantages of a true solid-state battery, it incorporates a hybrid approach. Non-solid-state component: Liquid catholyte: While the anode and electrolyte are solid, the cathode still uses a liquid electrolyte. This is because finding a suitable solid-state material for the cathode remains a challenge in the industry.
Cathodes in conventional Li-ion batteries are already solid. As far as we know, QuantumScape is producing a true solid state battery. In a conventional Li-ion battery, the cathode (NMC, NCA, LFP, etc.) and the anode (graphite) are solid and the electrolyte between the two is liquid. QuantumScape hasn't changed the cathode, but has replaced the liquid electrolyte with a solid ceramic electrolyte and has replaced the graphite anode with a lithium metal anode, which is much thinner. A number of companies that claim to be solid state actually have semi-liquid electrolytes, but that doesn't appear to be the case with QuantumScape.
@@amosbatto3051 QuantumScape's battery represents a significant step forward towards achieving the benefits of true solid-state batteries, it's currently a hybrid approach. Some experts prefer terms like "quasi-solid state" or "advanced lithium-ion" to more accurately describe its current stage of development. However, it's crucial to remember that even with the liquid cathode, QuantumScape's battery offers substantial improvements over conventional Li-ion batteries.
@@amosbatto3051 Search for "quantumscape liquid catholyte" This is a quote from Quantumscape website: "QuantumScape couples this solid-state ceramic separator with an organic liquid electrolyte for the cathode (catholyte)." If it's using a liquid it is not by definition "solid state".
From QS: "QuantumScape couples this solid-state ceramic separator with an organic liquid electrolyte for the cathode (catholyte). " So it's NOT solid state.
Out of all the solid state battery companies QuantumScape has the most published data and independent 3rd party test. Although I won't count Volkswagen as independent because I believe they own part of QuantumScape now. Which may in itself weigh in that this may be real. QuantumScape definitely has burned through a lot of R&D $$ and has hired a ton of the top chemical engineers. I think they are at the point they need to get something out commercially before they can access more investment. I doubt they have anything close they can scale up with cost effectively yet. So maybe your right about this showing up in a Rimac Nevera first, or something like that.
If you have the time, check out QS latest earnings call. They have been working on getting manufacturing off the ground for the last year and they should have scalable manufacturing in place in mid to late 2025, expected to be supplying a high-end Porsche or another supercar / formula1 car (they hinted at this).
I believe the prototype was tested in a Porsche car for a year or so. VW is indeed an owner of QS, as they invested $100 Million in the company during its early phases. QS has many patents in this field and is regarded as an leader for its electrolyte separator bonding technology, which allows them to double the energy density of a Li-ion battery. I think it will become readily adopted and the technology eventually licensed. Practically speaking, it would mean that VW could enter the market with a car that has 500km plus range, yet still be a Golf or some modest vehicle, a million of which they could sell a year. Disclosure: I have been long on QS for over 2 years.
@@bengt_axle I got scared and almost sold my QS. But Sandy Did an interview with the founder and I decided to hold what I have. I hope they can scale it. VW may abandon car manufacturing in preference for battery manufacturing. Which wouldn't surprise me.
@@keithwillis3761 Many who have APPL, TSLA and the likes also hold QS but don't realize that this type of up and down is NORMAL for early phase work. TLSA nearly went under too. It took them 15 years to become profitable. QS is down because the stock market is driven by people who want quick easy cash. "Wealth" managers will not buy QS because their clients will say, "Well, what did you do with my money? Lose 30% this year?" They are not in for the long haul. QS is for people who can hold it for 10 years or more and have the stomach for volatility, while understanding how important the problem they are trying to solve is.
Elasticity like ability of solid state metals are the chance to energy conversion like things !! We can accelerate the aoms internal energy and can cunvert into electron flow
From the corporation that brought us dieselgate in 2015, I want to believe, but your caveat is important. The issue will not be so much how the batteries charge, but how much they charge for the batteries...
EV batteries will be like computer technology, a better version becomes constantly available and you end up with old tech in just a couple of years. Nio seems to have the best solution with battery swapping capability.
Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries hold 80% of their capacity after 4000 cycles at 100% Depth of Discharge. That means 4000 full charge and full discharge cycles. This number can easily double if you reduce the depth of discharge to regular DoD which most users will do as it is not practical to let your battery die on you completely and have to either tow your car or bring a portable charger to get your car back home.
Quantumsape also hired some mass production engineer from Western Digital. They make hard drives. Which means they are getting ready to set up mass production factories.
Eventually solid state batteries will be standard but it will take many more years. Sam points to technical challenges. Another challenge is to move to mass production. New challenges arise when you move to mass production. Just ask Tesla. They are being challenged to mass produce a dry cathode. In a solid state, everything is dry, including the electrode and electrolyte. Having prototype is one thing. Mass producing at cost competitive levels is another. Hence, all this research is great but we are many years away of a mass produced cost competitive solid state battery.
Read the history of quantumscape carefully and maybe go and read the various quarterly reports so you will discover that they are already preparing a first production line where the machinery has already been installed and they are already starting to provide for the mass production plant.
@@pierlucapetrin9740 I am fully aware of quantumscape. There is a big difference between production and mass production. Scaling up massively brings new scientific challenges. Tesla has been able for a while to produce its dry electrode batteries but is struggling to mass produce the dry cathode. I am pulling for quantumscope but they will need to solve the same technical challenges to move to multi Gw production. And more since they will need to mass produce a dry electrolyte.
Interesting but I'm dubious......Charlie Brown - Football - Lucy. I'm jussayin...... My understanding is that VW just "dumped" QuantumScape and is looking for a different partner because QuantumScape failed to hit their commercialization commitment dates. I guess I'll believe it when I see it.
My conclusion after researching QuantumScape is that they are still at least a year away from commercial production and they will be so expensive that there is little hope for them in mainstream EVs. Maybe they will get enough economies of scale to be used in luxury car models by 2030, but they are most likely to be used in supercars, hybrid airplanes and high-end electronics like cell phones. Their production costs are simply too high. We should be far more excited about developments such as Zeekr's LFP "Golden Battery" with 255 Wh/kg energy density that can charge at 4.5 C, 800V, 500 kW than solid state, because that is tech that will actually be used in standard EVs.
"Aging" comes in two parts - cycle age (self explanatory) and calendar aging (also self explanatory but mostly ignored). If everyone put 300K miles on their cars in 10 years and then scrapped/recycled the car, no one would care about calendar aging. I'm interested in seeing projections about calendar aging.
It depends how the vehicle is being used. Cycle aging is important for vehicles that part of commercial fleets, such as taxis or delivery vans, as they are on the road all day every day and go through a lot of cycles very fast. Calendar aging is more important for cars owned by average people who drive average/below average miles per year.
Given the brittle nature of their ceramic separator, I would only trust the test results if they did the discharge cycle tests while simulating driving conditions. The separator lifespan might be great in a quiet lab but it might exhibit cracking under real driving conditions where vibration, bumps, starting/stopping can put serious mechanical stress on the batteries. QS does not reveal the chemistry or mechanical properties of their magic ceramic separator and probably never will, so discharge testing under worst-case driving conditions would be the only way to know how reliable they might be.
The news is much welcome because QS proved that it is possible to make a Solid State Battery that works - they just do not know how to manufacture it, and whether they can be cost effective, safety testing and also real world testing. In those regard, its still a very long road ahead.
Its good progress, but the press release is incredibly lacking in detail so I would be cautious. I don't think there is actually any "new" information here, per-say.
I would like to see either a swappable battery or a battery in which the electrolyte can be changed, like an oil change, on a regular basis. The electrolyte change idea would be best because it would be easier to recycle the electrolyte than the entire battery. The electrolyte would probably have to be added under high pressure to distribute it throughout the electrode pairs.
There's a company trying to sell a flow battery car. It has long range, rechargeability, and you can swap out the electrolytes in a couple minutes besides. You'd have to swap two different tanks of electrolyte. It might have promise, who knows.
There is no battery currently in use in EV's that can "change out the electrolyte". The electrolyte is part of the battery and cannot be changed. The only batteries capable of this are flow batteries or high pressure hydrogen/nickel and these batteries take up a lot of space, are heavier, lower energy density, low peak output and just aren't practical for EV's. As far as swapping the batteries this would be problematic at scale for a huge number of reasons but standardization is a big one. As charging speeds keep increasing, and they do keep increasing, there will be less incentive for such technologies. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see this but in all practicality it will not be a thing. For most EV user's charging speeds really aren't a problem as they are usually charge at home while they sleep and rarely need to use a super charger, usually only on trips. This sort of technology isn't important for most EV users.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Yeah, I saw that too, the company is called nanoFlowcell. It would be cool if they could get it to work but the only real article I can find on them is by Tina Casey who doesn't have the best record for predictions and the article is very light on details or timelines.
We need SS batteries, but also made from only clean materials, and I think that will be the holy grail, this is a step forward, but more work must follow
I see more benefit for grid stabilization given the high discharge and recharge cycle times and durability over hundreds of cycles. For vehicles there would be more use for short range commuter vehicles and delivery trucks.
Good news from the pouch pack tester from VW. However, this pouch pack tester was not produced using auto - scaled manufacturing techniques. It was created in a lab and custom built in a lab. Once they can scale it and mass produce it, the scaled battery pack will probably show a decrease in performance compared to the lab battery that was tested which is a common challenge amongst all battery startups. QS has to prove they can maintain this performance from a scaled battery pack. Stock is going to drop back down to $6.00 over next few months.
This was a 24-layer commercial intent cell design. Far from a “pouch pack.” They do need to move production to high capacity equipment. That part of your comment is accurate.
Do what I did - snag yourself a 1,000 shares of QS and let it ride up or down in price but don't sell. Follow it, if it seems like it's close to mass manuf. for EV's, snag a bunch more. How many stocks can you get for less than 10 bucks that could make you a whole lotta payola?
I don't care about the miles... I care about cycle life. So at about 1 minute in, I had to back-calculate. If they don't have 5000 charges to 80%, they are worth very little. Other batteries are getting 3500 charges. They are expensive enough that they need to last longer for people to want them. Assumed cycle life: * If it began as a 300 mile battery pack and ended at 285 mile pack. * If they counted a cycle from 10% to 90%. ( If energy loss is linear with cycles. The average of 80% of 292.5 (average of the old and new amount held) is 230 miles per cycle. 300,000 miles translates into 1,282 cycles to 95% About 5000 cycles if the drop is linear. That is in the ballpark. Cool.
Should have emphasized the biggest , most significant statistic: the claim of TRIPLE the energy density per volume! That, if true, will open the floodgates for universal adoption of battery storage.
I'm not sure this is much if any improvement over the theoretical ''Million Mile Battery'' from Jeff Dahn's lab who have recently discovered adding a compound would increase the cycle life to above 1200 before reaching 90% capacity.This was covered in detail on ''The limmiting factor''.While this is still research,Tesla(who contract out Dahn's lab) have filed for a patent for this technology so it would seem that they intend on squeezing a lot more potential from Lithium Iron technology at the moment.
Show me this million mile battery, Tesla work with his research lab? Tesla use still use 18650 cell in the model s and x because anything else would be a downgrade
@@robbieb8274 Here is a link to the latest ''Limitting factor'' video.The graph shows you the potential for this new patent. All this comes from Jeff Dahn's lab which esentially works for Tesla so any IP belongs to Tesla. ruclips.net/video/fNpTPmbYOUI/видео.htmlsi=_uKrX43BFTnLhgJx&t=279
And in any case Tesla is anxiously waiting for Quantumscape's batteries, the CEO of Redwood is on the board of directors of Tesla and Quantumscape... does that mean something no? Then if we think that Audi, Wolksvagen Porche have adopted the same charging system as Tesla? Are two tests enough for you?
If the SS Batteries can hold 95% capacity after 300k miles that's a game changer! I was under the impression VW was going to possibly be first mover to release SS battery based cars. I'm not surprised if Toyota beats them since Toyata is very advanced and forward thinking. I just wish VW stock wasn't such a dud! I was expecting this technology to be a big catalyst for their stock. The stock is basically terrible! If quantum scape has "cracked the code" and if VW is the sole benefactor of this it might actually drive the stock up massively. The SS batteries are revolutionary.
I didn't quite understand. They have a battery of 1000 recharges with 95% retention, but the goal is still 800 recharges with 80% retention? And how is it possible to travel 300,000 miles with 1000 recharges?
I noticed that oddity about the 800 cycles. My guess is that he meant to say 8,000. Getting 300,000 miles from 1,000 recharges is clearly based on a 300 mile range. That is fairly typical for a decent EV. Remember that solid state batteries will be smaller and lighter than conventional batteries with a paste as an electrolyte, so larger capacity batteries are likely.
Thanks for your response. But I think even a decent EV has just over 300 miles of range, and you won't go to the limit to recharge, so more charges would be needed. Are two half charges equivalent to a full charge for the battery's useful life?@@briancampbell179
Hmm that makes me want a car like that , even if I have to not stay at a charger after work or something, because I think about all the hassle I'm like nope.
Does anyone know why Diesel Submarines still use Lead Acid Batteries? I have heard answers ranging from Ballast, Fire Hazard, Cost ..... but nothing really convincing.
Who knows but common sense tells you that if they can safety contain fission reactors in submarines, they can certainly safely package lithium batteries too.
@@cbcdesign001 the issue is more than 80% of the Subs still in use are Diesel Subs. I know some subs used in Japan and Norway have converted them to electric ones. The other thing is, I was told that Diesel Subs are much more quieter than Nuclear ones. Not sure why.
I'll believe it when I SEE IT at MASS PRODUCTION SCALE and a reasonable price. The lab is NOT the mass produced market, effectively making a solid profit and getting repeat customers.
Has significant for a battery to not degrade it need to retain its shape before and after being used and it needs to do this consistently for 10 to 15 years to be able to compete with an lfp battery. This is not an easy feat
I'm on the fence about this. On the one hand, solid state have been coming soon just like nuclear fusion (yes, I'm poking fun at Sam's frequently misunderstood claims of 150% energy efficiency of a recent experiment). 1,000 recharge cycles is not a lot. IIRC, a conventional LFP battery is good for 3,000 cycles albeit with a greater loss of capacity. When they test solid state batteries at 3,000 cycles and we can have an apples with apples comparison, then we'll talk. There's no reason to believe that the cycles to capacity graph is linear. On the other hand, I was listening to a science podcast some years ago where they were discussing the actual problems holding up solid state batteries. As I understand it, while the solid state electrolyte was supposed to block dendrite formation which is a major killer for Li-Ion batteries, they were having problems preventing microscopic cracks forming in the electrolyte during the manufacturing process. This allowed dendrites to form drastically reducing their life. I suspect that this is why the reporting about QuantumScape focusses on this issue. The science report noted that a solution had been found involving (again IIRC) the use of CO2 during manufacture. The actual solution doesn't matter in that this is the sort of problem that exists until it doesn't. This is not something that is going to incrementally improve. If fixed, the problem will go away and solid state batteries will live up to their potential. This means that we can expect a jump in performance rather than slow improvement. An announcement of significant improvement would not be a surprise. Of course, even if fixed, they can still be improved from here. There is a lot happening in the world of batteries. True, many investigations will come to nothing, but those that do will push things forward. What I am interested in seeing is which ones can be combined. Will we have sodium batteries with pure silicon anodes and a solid state electrolyte that will provide cheap and energy dense batteries capable of really fast charging?
Why do I think we may hear VW offering to sell their Quantum battery stake in the near future? This information on QS's battery tech is old news but was recently sited by VW as if it were new news. Either QS needs to go to market with this groundbreaking tech soon or they are going to run out of money. I'm not sure if VW can afford to invest more. Let's hope VW doesn't somehow sell their stake in QS to a Chinese battery firm or all is lost!
Great job as usual. I wonder if manufacturers are considering battery swap outs? Not a gas station battery swap but with the whole car battery. That is when a new battery tech comes out, can’t we just swap battery with the same form factor.
@@jamesvandamme7786 I think @brokejohnnylive1530 meant for maintenance reasons rather than alternative for charging but more options are always welcome
Tesla tried this and quickly concluded that it was too expensive and that people did not want to pay the pretty hefty swap charge as opposed to the minimal charge for supercharging. Doubtful that somebody else can do it for money comparable to supercharging because of course you've got to charge the battery packs you're taking in, you've got to have a big pile of spare batteries which is super expensive, and you assume massive risk at the same time so in combination all that spells that this is a no-fly zone
This kind of news will be the norm for another 10 years. Only in the last few years has money began to seriously flow into battery research, because there is now money to be made. Eventually the automotive industry will settle on a battery design/chemistry that offers perfromance and value. Sure there will still be several different chemistries around, but one will eventually become a common standard for mass market vehicles. Everyone (the media, the haters) need to just calm down and be patient. And probably Ford, GM, VW and Toyota need to focus on making EVs that people actually want.
@@richardt6980 , I know LFP is susceptible to thermal runway, under certain conditions, but not to the same extent as other lithium chemistry. So are you saying that 'solid state' lithium batteries can't experience thermal runaway? That's a big. plus if true.
People compare electric vehicles with gas powered vehicles-obviously. A gas fuel tank will hold the same amount of energy from new to forever.It’s expected ( no demanded). What the mass market is waiting for is 3 things. 1.Price parity. 2.Range parity 3.Charge time parity. They are not demanding’more’ just what they’ve got already- very reasonable I’d say. Liquid electrolyte batteries will never offer these 3 simple demands. So we wait…
Hey y’all, this is Toyota CEO calling to let y’all know that we got a solid state battery using the latest greatest hydrogen nano technology coupled with quantum di- lithium cyber crystal meth cold fusion. After 1 million miles or 1 million years which ever comes first, our super duper battery retains 99.99% of charge. Buy our stocks now before it’s too late.
Suggestion to focus on the graph and cut out the marketing stuff. A 24-layer, single cell was tested, not a multi-cell battery, and certainly not a battery to power an EV. Cell footprint was about 7x8cm, thickness not stated. About 3mAh/cm2 or 170mAh x 24 = 4Ah (cathode-limited) total cell capacity. Charge rate was C/3, so full charge in about 3.5 hours assuming non-linear CCCV process and full charge. Discharge rate was C/2, so 2h (complete) discharge. Interestingly, external pressure was 3-4atm, presumably to hold the 24 layers together. IMO it will take a massive effort to (a) mass-produce this, and (b) integrate the cell into a 1000s-of-cells battery that can power an EV ... while meeting the 800 cycle/80% remaining capacity target.
If this technology works, there's no way it takes "10-15" years to become the industry standard. Current EV owners both private and commercial will drive demand and China will reverse engineer the technology yesterday. It will all happen very quickly.
I read this was after 1000 charging cycles. I do a 70 mile daily commute. An EV will cope with that. That is about 3 years of charging cycles, or 70,000 miles, not the 300,000 miles. I am not persuaded by this report. Could well be typical car manufacturer's exaggeration.
You don't need to charge every day, you can run a battery down to about 20% then recharge it so in your case a battery with a 300 mile range to 20% would only need to recharged every 4 days which is less than 92 cycles a year. Even if you did charge every day, its a partial cycle, not a full one.
VW guarantees 70% battery retention after 160 Mm, which in my opinion is rubbish on such an expensive car, would incur heavy depreciation, over 90% battery retention is a better number.
I knew nearly 20-years ago, that solid-state batteries would replace liquid electricity batts as soon as chemists could figure out how to increase their cycle life and lower pricing as solid-state batteries are smaller, lighter, impermeable to extreme temperatures and charge much faster.
Thanks for your videos. Not longwinded, as so many on youtube tend to become. Thanks!
Hope that the data were not made up by the VW Diesel emission management.. 😅
You think they would risk that again?
There is no „diesel emissions management“. VW cheapened out, their diesels now come with dual urea exhaust treatment and comply with all kinds of standards.
Projected stock price for quantum scape in the next couple years is that it will hit over $100 per share. Currently the stock is below nine dollars per share. It would be smart to put at least $1000 into it now and sit back and wait and see what happens of course that’s if you have that kind of money to possibly lose but I don’t think it’s a bad idea
Equally important: the specific (or "gravimetric") energy density (in Wh/kg) and the volumetric energy density (in Wh/liter). Apparently, QuantumScape has reached 375 Wh/kg in the lab with their hybrid SSD battery cells, "independently verified by 3rd-party" which is very good. Also good, their projected commercial goal for volumetric energy density at 1,000 Wh/l.
To put things in perspective, first Tesla Model Y with Panasonic's 4680 NCA cells: ~ 271 Wh/kg and 750 Wh/l
Geely's LFP "Golden" battery, which is commercially available, has a specific energy density of 255 Wh/kg, on par with common NMC batteries.
Typical LFP batteries in EVs on the market today are around 150 Wh/kg only.
However, the Chinese have in the lab lithium batteries offering insane numbers: 711 Wh/kg and 1653.65 Wh/liter! Not available in any EV currently of course.
Actually the first 4680's where more like 240 w/kg where the 2170's are 270 wh/kg at least that is what I have read .
Generation 2 of the 4680 is around 270 w/kg only in the Cyber Truck for now. I thought the first 4680's are entirely
Tesla made.
The Chinese will be ahead at the time this Quantum is scaled up
Those are Silicon enriched ones, which aren't very stable and actually dangerous in hot environments.
@@protagonist9716 Far as I know, none of them are. Many still struggling just keeping up with what they have. More research into LMFP or Na type.
That claim about QS' cell energy density of 375 Wh/kg is totally false. QuantumScape has not released any information about their A samples' energy density nor has any "independent 3rd party" tested and "verified" their energy density. Stop spreading fabricated information. QuantumScape is at least a year away from having a cell that is production worthy. The cells VW and the rest of QuantumScape's prospective customers have are for testing and to provide feedback for their next generation of B sample cells produced using more scaled production processes.
I like your presentation and explanation. I wish you would show actual sources/publications that you draw your conclusions from. Like this it is purely speculative and we have to rely on your "opinion" without knowing where and how you obtain your knowledge (mainstream media)
Much will depend on how long it will take to bring these out of the lab and into practical use. The next challenge is mass production and delivering these at scale. If this is true, demand for these batteries will go through the roof. A solid-state battery with all of the characteristics described here would tip the balance and seal the fate of ICE vehicles. It would also put VW back into the game as of late; what they offer could be more impressive. Let's see how long it will take to see these in production vehicles.
True, but then there is even another bigger challenge: All days we have tons of news about "miracle" technologies that will change all the EV market and kill the ICE cars. It is round the clock, really. Problem is: Too many technologies, some incompatible with the next one, and nobody really knows what is the real possibilities to some of them to become real production ones. All the current battery providers have done a strong investment for the current generation battery supply chain. They'll most likely to go on for small incremental gains with same technology base, before they start to adapt factories for the next big thing. With massive transition still in the beginning with the current generation technology; I can't see any purpose for the next gen to be deployed yet to the public. Too early to say the least. Current cars can go up to an average of real autonomy driving on the ~300-500Km with a single charge depending on the car segment. More than enough for most folks. Extremely big batteries will perhaps to have a challenge nobody seems to be bearing in mind: Unused energy loss. You'll probably to pay for energy you don't consume at the day, unless you really need to do those extremely big travels daily. Things are not that easy... If possible; battery suppliers will run to the ~400-600Km average single charge real driving autonomy depending on the car segment till this decade ends out within the same technology base. I don't predict anything more significant out there commercially that soon, other than some development on the Sodium batteries that seems to be real at least for the smaller cars soon.
We need them yesterday
@@nunagoras
I don't expect any great breakthroughs any time soon either. The EV sector continues to grow and once we get some decently priced vehicles with good range which charge rapidly then its game over for the ICE sector. I think the major problem at this point is pricing. EVs remain very expensive and few can afford them.
I’m excited about that idea provided it’s not just vaporware if it really happens I’ll be in early adopter but I’ve been listening to the same conversation for three years
I am having a problem with the claim of '300000 miles' on what car was it tested? Under what conditions, using what motors, what is the battery pack co figuration and capacity? What is the energy efficiency?
What they should have published is dry data. X batteries tested with Y capacity wach over Z charge/discharge cycles and retained some % of capacity with some %of failures if any.
Calm down. This was old data from the lab test.
@@jamesvandamme7786 They don't exactly sound scientific when the main claim of "lasting 300,000 miles' is not only unsubstantiated by anything. but is vague and misleading. Doesn't matter how old the claim is.
@@dgurevich1 It's based on cycles. They achieved some number of charge-discharges in the lab, then some genius in the marketing department who can multiply (with a calculator) figured that with a certain size car which gets a certain amount of WH per mile, times the battery size times cycles, voila you get 300K. This is like the LED bulbs that all say "50,000 hours life" when that only refers to the LED chips at a controlled temperature and doesn't account for the electronics.
So let's see how long they last with shock & vibration, temp cycling, all the rest.
I have been in on QuantumScape for a few years. It has been my bit coin play. Pure speculation, but the company impressed me with their dogged methodical style. I hope that they can make this work, really could be game changing.
QSE-5 is production of single cell batteries with a 5ah capacity, the same capacity that is in an iPhone and expects to be up and running later this year. Quantumscape is working with a potential CE customer(s) right now.
These batteries can go in small devices like phones too. Just bought the stock Monday feeling good.
Even more impressive is capacity preservation during fast charging (10-15 min from 10% to 80%). Even with a 10 min fast charge, the QS cell is able to retain >80% capacity after >800 cycles with 100% discharge. This is a game changer for Lithium-ion battery longevity, even under extreme charging conditions. Keep in mind this is based on QS data, however keep in mind QS has consistently been proven right about their claims, for the past 3 years.
This is a press release from Quantumscape from 2022! That VW releases it now smells of a PR move. Like Toyotas solid state batteries from 20 years ago.
I trust Alex Jones more than trusting this battery will give you any of its claims. As long as its about a EV you can say whatever you want and 99% of the people will believe it.
Production starts this year from their 1GWh pilot facility at 30% of its capacity. This means they will have revenues to report this year. Next year it’s forecasted at 80% capacity. This is about 8000 vehicles. In 2026 it will be more transformative since expansion facility (20GWh) starts production at 25% capacity. All good from hereon in.
What about energy density ? What about performance in low/high temperatures? Or dose it self discharge or degrade over time even if it is not being cycled?
QuantumScape claimed energy densities of 380-500 Wh/kg and 800-1000 Wh/liter in 2021, and in 2023, they were saying as high as 500 Wh/kg, but they haven't released specific numbers. In earlier tests, they claimed 400 charging cycles with 4C charging (13.3 mA/cm2), going from 10% of capacity to full (4.2V) in 15 minutes, with C/3 charging from 0% to 10% of capacity. See AutoEvolution's article "QuantumScape Is Happy With Its SSB, But Shouldn't It Fear CATL's Condensed Cells?"
@@amosbatto3051 dude didn't want an answer he just wanted to complain.
@@Picklemedia no, I did want an answer , thank you.
@@patdbean oh okay. My bad I'm sorry
The real experiment was 95% capacity retention after 1000 charge-discharge cycles. As for 300k miles would only be valid if one charge had 300 miles range.
Ok how about 95% at 200k miles? Even then it's amazing.
Who cares if the charges was for 300, 200 or even 2 miles. The point here is that after 300,000 miles it still retain 95% capacity and that's the amazing fact. No cars would ever reach that distance anyway. Get real Rashius!
@@DolipraneDude There is no after 300,000 miles, in fact.. there wasn't even a car involved. They were only testing QS batteries in a lab and it retained 95% after 1000 cycles. They only extrapolated that to if they put enough batteries of that kind in a car for 300 miles range, that car would retain 95% capacity after 300,000 miles. You get Real!
The data may not be available but what percentage failed before getting to 300,000 miles? That is also a key metric. We see EV batteries jump from 5% degradation to "won't charge / need replacement" in which case degradation is maybe the 2nd priority data point over failure.
Hard to get that data while at prototype stage.
At least they have shown data and prototypes, while Toyota continue to sell us smoke and mirrors.
@@connclissmann6514 And some 5-15 years of work for the Material Dynamics Engineering Team - among others - to collect that data and improve the solution for mass market production after all the concept proof is done. So, basically, if they only finalized concept proof today, one will only to know those details from 2029 to 2039 at best. This is why I find that information promising... But just that for now. We need to calm down on those "miracle technologies" that can to come... But that can to fail either!...
What I've read is that most of the time when a battery suddenly fails like the problem isn't even the battery cells, but some random wire or temperature sensor inside the battery pack going bad. Unless the car markers can be bothered to construct the battery so that one faulty sensor doesn't invalidate the entire pack, how many cycles the physical cells can be charged and discharged may not matter.
@@ab-tf5fl Exactly, I mean it is anecdotal but there don't seem to be loads of videos on youtube where range has gradually dropped from 300 to 150 and the person has decided to replace the battery, it seems to be far more a case of: I only had 10% degradation and then suddenly it wouldn't charge etc.
The situation with QuantumScape's battery is a bit nuanced, and it's not technically pure 100% solid-state in the strictest sense. While it offers many of the advantages of a true solid-state battery, it incorporates a hybrid approach.
Non-solid-state component:
Liquid catholyte: While the anode and electrolyte are solid, the cathode still uses a liquid electrolyte. This is because finding a suitable solid-state material for the cathode remains a challenge in the industry.
Cathodes in conventional Li-ion batteries are already solid. As far as we know, QuantumScape is producing a true solid state battery. In a conventional Li-ion battery, the cathode (NMC, NCA, LFP, etc.) and the anode (graphite) are solid and the electrolyte between the two is liquid. QuantumScape hasn't changed the cathode, but has replaced the liquid electrolyte with a solid ceramic electrolyte and has replaced the graphite anode with a lithium metal anode, which is much thinner. A number of companies that claim to be solid state actually have semi-liquid electrolytes, but that doesn't appear to be the case with QuantumScape.
@@amosbatto3051 QuantumScape's battery represents a significant step forward towards achieving the benefits of true solid-state batteries, it's currently a hybrid approach. Some experts prefer terms like "quasi-solid state" or "advanced lithium-ion" to more accurately describe its current stage of development.
However, it's crucial to remember that even with the liquid cathode, QuantumScape's battery offers substantial improvements over conventional Li-ion batteries.
@@amosbatto3051 Search for "quantumscape liquid catholyte"
This is a quote from Quantumscape website: "QuantumScape couples this solid-state ceramic separator with an organic liquid electrolyte for the cathode (catholyte)." If it's using a liquid it is not by definition "solid state".
BS😊
From QS: "QuantumScape couples this solid-state ceramic separator with an organic liquid electrolyte for the cathode (catholyte). " So it's NOT solid state.
Out of all the solid state battery companies QuantumScape has the most published data and independent 3rd party test. Although I won't count Volkswagen as independent because I believe they own part of QuantumScape now. Which may in itself weigh in that this may be real. QuantumScape definitely has burned through a lot of R&D $$ and has hired a ton of the top chemical engineers. I think they are at the point they need to get something out commercially before they can access more investment. I doubt they have anything close they can scale up with cost effectively yet. So maybe your right about this showing up in a Rimac Nevera first, or something like that.
If you have the time, check out QS latest earnings call. They have been working on getting manufacturing off the ground for the last year and they should have scalable manufacturing in place in mid to late 2025, expected to be supplying a high-end Porsche or another supercar / formula1 car (they hinted at this).
@@Timanda103 Good reference . Thanks.
I believe the prototype was tested in a Porsche car for a year or so. VW is indeed an owner of QS, as they invested $100 Million in the company during its early phases. QS has many patents in this field and is regarded as an leader for its electrolyte separator bonding technology, which allows them to double the energy density of a Li-ion battery. I think it will become readily adopted and the technology eventually licensed. Practically speaking, it would mean that VW could enter the market with a car that has 500km plus range, yet still be a Golf or some modest vehicle, a million of which they could sell a year. Disclosure: I have been long on QS for over 2 years.
@@bengt_axle I got scared and almost sold my QS. But Sandy Did an interview with the founder and I decided to hold what I have. I hope they can scale it. VW may abandon car manufacturing in preference for battery manufacturing. Which wouldn't surprise me.
@@keithwillis3761 Many who have APPL, TSLA and the likes also hold QS but don't realize that this type of up and down is NORMAL for early phase work. TLSA nearly went under too. It took them 15 years to become profitable. QS is down because the stock market is driven by people who want quick easy cash. "Wealth" managers will not buy QS because their clients will say, "Well, what did you do with my money? Lose 30% this year?" They are not in for the long haul. QS is for people who can hold it for 10 years or more and have the stomach for volatility, while understanding how important the problem they are trying to solve is.
Elasticity like ability of solid state metals are the chance to energy conversion like things !!
We can accelerate the aoms internal energy and can cunvert into electron flow
YES! That's the one.
just one question, how much does one car cost with QuantumScapes battery ? 200 000 USD ?
Yup, but good news, you’ll get a $3750 rebate from Biden….all is well 😂
From the corporation that brought us dieselgate in 2015, I want to believe, but your caveat is important. The issue will not be so much how the batteries charge, but how much they charge for the batteries...
EV batteries will be like computer technology, a better version becomes constantly available and you end up with old tech in just a couple of years. Nio seems to have the best solution with battery swapping capability.
Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries hold 80% of their capacity after 4000 cycles at 100% Depth of Discharge.
That means 4000 full charge and full discharge cycles.
This number can easily double if you reduce the depth of discharge to regular DoD which most users will do as it is not practical to let your battery die on you completely and have to either tow your car or bring a portable charger to get your car back home.
Quantumsape also hired some mass production engineer from Western Digital. They make hard drives.
Which means they are getting ready to set up mass production factories.
We'll have batteries that store energy as angular momentum, lol
Dr. Siva Sivaram from Western Digital and SanDisk. It’s a huge hire for CEO of production. He know about mass producing precision products.
Only any good if the price is right! No good if the battery costs too much and outlasts the car.
Get them into busses and other commercial vehicles. That's the key to bringing the price to LiFo parity.
How many $ per kWh?
What happens after 1000 cycles? The fact they limit the chart to 1000 cycles is a red flag to me. 🚩
LiFePo batteries are typically rated 3000+ cycles.
It takes time to charge and discharge a battery 1000 cycles. On to the next test at that point.
1000 cycles is 500,000 km in the car. You plan on keeping a car that long? Even then you will only see 5-10% degradation.
Super cars and airplanes. Let's go!
hope this 3.6Ah tested battery can be larger without performance decay, for CTP system ,it should reach 100+ Ah
Eventually solid state batteries will be standard but it will take many more years. Sam points to technical challenges. Another challenge is to move to mass production. New challenges arise when you move to mass production. Just ask Tesla. They are being challenged to mass produce a dry cathode. In a solid state, everything is dry, including the electrode and electrolyte. Having prototype is one thing. Mass producing at cost competitive levels is another. Hence, all this research is great but we are many years away of a mass produced cost competitive solid state battery.
Read the history of quantumscape carefully and maybe go and read the various quarterly reports so you will discover that they are already preparing a first production line where the machinery has already been installed and they are already starting to provide for the mass production plant.
@@pierlucapetrin9740 I am fully aware of quantumscape. There is a big difference between production and mass production. Scaling up massively brings new scientific challenges. Tesla has been able for a while to produce its dry electrode batteries but is struggling to mass produce the dry cathode. I am pulling for quantumscope but they will need to solve the same technical challenges to move to multi Gw production. And more since they will need to mass produce a dry electrolyte.
Interesting but I'm dubious......Charlie Brown - Football - Lucy. I'm jussayin...... My understanding is that VW just "dumped" QuantumScape and is looking for a different partner because QuantumScape failed to hit their commercialization commitment dates. I guess I'll believe it when I see it.
My conclusion after researching QuantumScape is that they are still at least a year away from commercial production and they will be so expensive that there is little hope for them in mainstream EVs. Maybe they will get enough economies of scale to be used in luxury car models by 2030, but they are most likely to be used in supercars, hybrid airplanes and high-end electronics like cell phones. Their production costs are simply too high. We should be far more excited about developments such as Zeekr's LFP "Golden Battery" with 255 Wh/kg energy density that can charge at 4.5 C, 800V, 500 kW than solid state, because that is tech that will actually be used in standard EVs.
Moore's Law
@@Picklemedia And Moore just died (RIP).
I believe there's still room to improve the energy density in QuantumScape's cell design!
Thanks so much Sam
You are so welcome!
Afternoon mate
Capacitors Exploded when in failure mode!
Be it electrolyte or film or ceramic or thin film failure is explosive POP!
"Aging" comes in two parts - cycle age (self explanatory) and calendar aging (also self explanatory but mostly ignored). If everyone put 300K miles on their cars in 10 years and then scrapped/recycled the car, no one would care about calendar aging. I'm interested in seeing projections about calendar aging.
It depends how the vehicle is being used. Cycle aging is important for vehicles that part of commercial fleets, such as taxis or delivery vans, as they are on the road all day every day and go through a lot of cycles very fast. Calendar aging is more important for cars owned by average people who drive average/below average miles per year.
Given the brittle nature of their ceramic separator, I would only trust the test results if they did the discharge cycle tests while simulating driving conditions. The separator lifespan might be great in a quiet lab but it might exhibit cracking under real driving conditions where vibration, bumps, starting/stopping can put serious mechanical stress on the batteries. QS does not reveal the chemistry or mechanical properties of their magic ceramic separator and probably never will, so discharge testing under worst-case driving conditions would be the only way to know how reliable they might be.
Temp cycling might be the real killer. Start out at -20C, then warm it up to fast charge, then drive like a bat outta hell, and see how long it lasts.
So its the electrolite "solid" that is special on this battery, or are the cat/anode also different from lion?
The news is much welcome because QS proved that it is possible to make a Solid State Battery that works - they just do not know how to manufacture it, and whether they can be cost effective, safety testing and also real world testing. In those regard, its still a very long road ahead.
Its good progress, but the press release is incredibly lacking in detail so I would be cautious. I don't think there is actually any "new" information here, per-say.
This sounds great, but can they scale up to production, that is the question? A'Bhliadhna sona Ur du it!
I would like to see either a swappable battery or a battery in which the electrolyte can be changed, like an oil change, on a regular basis. The electrolyte change idea would be best because it would be easier to recycle the electrolyte than the entire battery. The electrolyte would probably have to be added under high pressure to distribute it throughout the electrode pairs.
There's a company trying to sell a flow battery car. It has long range, rechargeability, and you can swap out the electrolytes in a couple minutes besides. You'd have to swap two different tanks of electrolyte. It might have promise, who knows.
There is no battery currently in use in EV's that can "change out the electrolyte". The electrolyte is part of the battery and cannot be changed. The only batteries capable of this are flow batteries or high pressure hydrogen/nickel and these batteries take up a lot of space, are heavier, lower energy density, low peak output and just aren't practical for EV's. As far as swapping the batteries this would be problematic at scale for a huge number of reasons but standardization is a big one. As charging speeds keep increasing, and they do keep increasing, there will be less incentive for such technologies. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see this but in all practicality it will not be a thing. For most EV user's charging speeds really aren't a problem as they are usually charge at home while they sleep and rarely need to use a super charger, usually only on trips. This sort of technology isn't important for most EV users.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Yeah, I saw that too, the company is called nanoFlowcell. It would be cool if they could get it to work but the only real article I can find on them is by Tina Casey who doesn't have the best record for predictions and the article is very light on details or timelines.
hey, review the Holcomb system!
We need SS batteries, but also made from only clean materials, and I think that will be the holy grail, this is a step forward, but more work must follow
I wonder if solid state batteries also get damaged by staying a long time at 100% or 0% charge states.
I see more benefit for grid stabilization given the high discharge and recharge cycle times and durability over hundreds of cycles.
For vehicles there would be more use for short range commuter vehicles and delivery trucks.
Good news from the pouch pack tester from VW. However, this pouch pack tester was not produced using auto - scaled manufacturing techniques. It was created in a lab and custom built in a lab. Once they can scale it and mass produce it, the scaled battery pack will probably show a decrease in performance compared to the lab battery that was tested which is a common challenge amongst all battery startups. QS has to prove they can maintain this performance from a scaled battery pack. Stock is going to drop back down to $6.00 over next few months.
This was a 24-layer commercial intent cell design. Far from a “pouch pack.” They do need to move production to high capacity equipment. That part of your comment is accurate.
Is this a LFP or NMC cell?
Do what I did - snag yourself a 1,000 shares of QS and let it ride up or down in price but don't sell. Follow it, if it seems like it's close to mass manuf. for EV's, snag a bunch more. How many stocks can you get for less than 10 bucks that could make you a whole lotta payola?
Prototypes are easy, production is hard! Get it into production and then we have a game changer. Fingers crossed.
I don't care about the miles...
I care about cycle life. So at about 1 minute in, I had to back-calculate.
If they don't have 5000 charges to 80%, they are worth very little. Other batteries are getting 3500 charges. They are expensive enough that they need to last longer for people to want them.
Assumed cycle life:
* If it began as a 300 mile battery pack and ended at 285 mile pack.
* If they counted a cycle from 10% to 90%.
( If energy loss is linear with cycles.
The average of 80% of 292.5 (average of the old and new amount held) is 230 miles per cycle.
300,000 miles translates into 1,282 cycles to 95%
About 5000 cycles if the drop is linear.
That is in the ballpark. Cool.
Sounds great, but I can’t help but wonder how VW will screw it up.
Haha
Should have emphasized the biggest , most significant statistic: the claim of TRIPLE the energy density per volume! That, if true, will open the floodgates for universal adoption of battery storage.
How much does it cost?
I'm not sure this is much if any improvement over the theoretical ''Million Mile Battery'' from Jeff Dahn's lab who have recently discovered adding a compound would increase the cycle life to above 1200 before reaching 90% capacity.This was covered in detail on ''The limmiting factor''.While this is still research,Tesla(who contract out Dahn's lab) have filed for a patent for this technology so it would seem that they intend on squeezing a lot more potential from Lithium Iron technology at the moment.
Show me this million mile battery, Tesla work with his research lab? Tesla use still use 18650 cell in the model s and x because anything else would be a downgrade
@@robbieb8274 Here is a link to the latest ''Limitting factor'' video.The graph shows you the potential for this new patent.
All this comes from Jeff Dahn's lab which esentially works for Tesla so any IP belongs to Tesla.
ruclips.net/video/fNpTPmbYOUI/видео.htmlsi=_uKrX43BFTnLhgJx&t=279
And in any case Tesla is anxiously waiting for Quantumscape's batteries, the CEO of Redwood is on the board of directors of Tesla and Quantumscape... does that mean something no? Then if we think that Audi, Wolksvagen Porche have adopted the same charging system as Tesla? Are two tests enough for you?
This battery is patent and will be used in consumer appliances as well. Don’t sleep on QS.
I hope this is a Hail Mary savior for VW because it needs it...
If the SS Batteries can hold 95% capacity after 300k miles that's a game changer! I was under the impression VW was going to possibly be first mover to release SS battery based cars. I'm not surprised if Toyota beats them since Toyata is very advanced and forward thinking. I just wish VW stock wasn't such a dud! I was expecting this technology to be a big catalyst for their stock. The stock is basically terrible! If quantum scape has "cracked the code" and if VW is the sole benefactor of this it might actually drive the stock up massively. The SS batteries are revolutionary.
I didn't quite understand. They have a battery of 1000 recharges with 95% retention, but the goal is still 800 recharges with 80% retention? And how is it possible to travel 300,000 miles with 1000 recharges?
I noticed that oddity about the 800 cycles. My guess is that he meant to say 8,000.
Getting 300,000 miles from 1,000 recharges is clearly based on a 300 mile range. That is fairly typical for a decent EV. Remember that solid state batteries will be smaller and lighter than conventional batteries with a paste as an electrolyte, so larger capacity batteries are likely.
Thanks for your response. But I think even a decent EV has just over 300 miles of range, and you won't go to the limit to recharge, so more charges would be needed. Are two half charges equivalent to a full charge for the battery's useful life?@@briancampbell179
the initial goal was 800 cycles with 80% charge maintenance, they went further with 1000 cycles and 95% charge maintenance.
Hmm that makes me want a car like that , even if I have to not stay at a charger after work or something, because I think about all the hassle I'm like nope.
Does anyone know why Diesel Submarines still use Lead Acid Batteries? I have heard answers ranging from Ballast, Fire Hazard, Cost ..... but nothing really convincing.
Who knows but common sense tells you that if they can safety contain fission reactors in submarines, they can certainly safely package lithium batteries too.
@@cbcdesign001 the issue is more than 80% of the Subs still in use are Diesel Subs. I know some subs used in Japan and Norway have converted them to electric ones. The other thing is, I was told that Diesel Subs are much more quieter than Nuclear ones. Not sure why.
I'll believe it when I SEE IT at MASS PRODUCTION SCALE and a reasonable price.
The lab is NOT the mass produced market, effectively making a solid profit and getting repeat customers.
So many hurdles to make it viable so I’m not depending on this. I’ll gladly accept the good news when they deliver product.
Has significant for a battery to not degrade it need to retain its shape before and after being used and it needs to do this consistently for 10 to 15 years to be able to compete with an lfp battery. This is not an easy feat
Do you own QS?
It’s not just the electrolyte that burns in a lithium battery lithium burns as well if it comes in contact with water…..
I'm on the fence about this. On the one hand, solid state have been coming soon just like nuclear fusion (yes, I'm poking fun at Sam's frequently misunderstood claims of 150% energy efficiency of a recent experiment). 1,000 recharge cycles is not a lot. IIRC, a conventional LFP battery is good for 3,000 cycles albeit with a greater loss of capacity. When they test solid state batteries at 3,000 cycles and we can have an apples with apples comparison, then we'll talk. There's no reason to believe that the cycles to capacity graph is linear.
On the other hand, I was listening to a science podcast some years ago where they were discussing the actual problems holding up solid state batteries. As I understand it, while the solid state electrolyte was supposed to block dendrite formation which is a major killer for Li-Ion batteries, they were having problems preventing microscopic cracks forming in the electrolyte during the manufacturing process. This allowed dendrites to form drastically reducing their life. I suspect that this is why the reporting about QuantumScape focusses on this issue. The science report noted that a solution had been found involving (again IIRC) the use of CO2 during manufacture. The actual solution doesn't matter in that this is the sort of problem that exists until it doesn't. This is not something that is going to incrementally improve. If fixed, the problem will go away and solid state batteries will live up to their potential. This means that we can expect a jump in performance rather than slow improvement. An announcement of significant improvement would not be a surprise. Of course, even if fixed, they can still be improved from here.
There is a lot happening in the world of batteries. True, many investigations will come to nothing, but those that do will push things forward. What I am interested in seeing is which ones can be combined. Will we have sodium batteries with pure silicon anodes and a solid state electrolyte that will provide cheap and energy dense batteries capable of really fast charging?
How long it charges tho?
Why do I think we may hear VW offering to sell their Quantum battery stake in the near future?
This information on QS's battery tech is old news but was recently sited by VW as if it were new news.
Either QS needs to go to market with this groundbreaking tech soon or they are going to run out of money. I'm not sure if VW can afford to invest more. Let's hope VW doesn't somehow sell their stake in QS to a Chinese battery firm or all is lost!
Cheers mate
Great job as usual. I wonder if manufacturers are considering battery swap outs? Not a gas station battery swap but with the whole car battery. That is when a new battery tech comes out, can’t we just swap battery with the same form factor.
Nio has hundreds of swap stations in China.
@@jamesvandamme7786 I think @brokejohnnylive1530 meant for maintenance reasons rather than alternative for charging but more options are always welcome
Tesla tried this and quickly concluded that it was too expensive and that people did not want to pay the pretty hefty swap charge as opposed to the minimal charge for supercharging. Doubtful that somebody else can do it for money comparable to supercharging because of course you've got to charge the battery packs you're taking in, you've got to have a big pile of spare batteries which is super expensive, and you assume massive risk at the same time so in combination all that spells that this is a no-fly zone
This kind of news will be the norm for another 10 years. Only in the last few years has money began to seriously flow into battery research, because there is now money to be made. Eventually the automotive industry will settle on a battery design/chemistry that offers perfromance and value. Sure there will still be several different chemistries around, but one will eventually become a common standard for mass market vehicles. Everyone (the media, the haters) need to just calm down and be patient. And probably Ford, GM, VW and Toyota need to focus on making EVs that people actually want.
Would like to know how safe from a thermal runaway standpoint. Better than LFP?
They don't have thermal runaway. Do your dd
@@richardt6980 , I know LFP is susceptible to thermal runway, under certain conditions, but not to the same extent as other lithium chemistry.
So are you saying that 'solid state' lithium batteries can't experience thermal runaway? That's a big. plus if true.
How about Teslas 1M miles battery?
300,000 miles is only 1000 charge cycles. Most LiPO batteries would retain 95% of charge capacity after 1000 cycles.
People compare electric vehicles with gas powered vehicles-obviously.
A gas fuel tank will hold the same amount of energy from new to forever.It’s expected ( no demanded).
What the mass market is waiting for is 3 things.
1.Price parity.
2.Range parity
3.Charge time parity.
They are not demanding’more’ just what they’ve got already- very reasonable I’d say.
Liquid electrolyte batteries will never offer these 3 simple demands. So we wait…
Hey y’all, this is Toyota CEO calling to let y’all know that we got a solid state battery using the latest greatest hydrogen nano technology coupled with quantum di- lithium cyber crystal meth cold fusion. After 1 million miles or 1 million years which ever comes first, our super duper battery retains 99.99% of charge. Buy our stocks now before it’s too late.
Suggestion to focus on the graph and cut out the marketing stuff.
A 24-layer, single cell was tested, not a multi-cell battery, and certainly not a battery to power an EV.
Cell footprint was about 7x8cm, thickness not stated.
About 3mAh/cm2 or 170mAh x 24 = 4Ah (cathode-limited) total cell capacity.
Charge rate was C/3, so full charge in about 3.5 hours assuming non-linear CCCV process and full charge.
Discharge rate was C/2, so 2h (complete) discharge.
Interestingly, external pressure was 3-4atm, presumably to hold the 24 layers together.
IMO it will take a massive effort to (a) mass-produce this, and (b) integrate the cell into a 1000s-of-cells battery that can power an EV ... while meeting the 800 cycle/80% remaining capacity target.
Yes, but does it “Change Everything?” 😂
SIVA WITH THE NEWS TODAY 🔋
Quantum scape stock is absolutely surging. Up 50% on the day
VW . . great story tellers.
If this is true……if it takes them 10 more years to bring it to market it will not matter because they will be out of business
If this technology works, there's no way it takes "10-15" years to become the industry standard. Current EV owners both private and commercial will drive demand and China will reverse engineer the technology yesterday. It will all happen very quickly.
I read this was after 1000 charging cycles. I do a 70 mile daily commute. An EV will cope with that. That is about 3 years of charging cycles, or 70,000 miles, not the 300,000 miles. I am not persuaded by this report. Could well be typical car manufacturer's exaggeration.
You don't need to charge every day, you can run a battery down to about 20% then recharge it so in your case a battery with a 300 mile range to 20% would only need to recharged every 4 days which is less than 92 cycles a year. Even if you did charge every day, its a partial cycle, not a full one.
this was a prototyp test in a Lab !!! btw. I still believe QS is a fraud
If this is true, then we just need to ramp up renewables to power them 👍
You're eating your hat w/ grace bro! QS is the way.
VW guarantees 70% battery retention after 160 Mm, which in my opinion is rubbish on such an expensive car, would incur heavy depreciation, over 90% battery retention is a better number.
wow VW could be coming back
So they put a battery in a car and drove it 300k miles?
Just a few weeks ago, this dude flatly accused Quantumscape management of paying for a positive article. LMAO.
hey sam GM is paying the 7500 tax until they get this changed
The Viking says ---> 25K flying cars next week. 🙄😂
I knew nearly 20-years ago, that solid-state batteries would replace liquid electricity batts as soon as chemists could figure out how to increase their cycle life and lower pricing as solid-state batteries are smaller, lighter, impermeable to extreme temperatures and charge much faster.
You knew that 20 years ago? Back then, we all "knew" that. Today, most engineers don't think SS batteries will ever be viable.
Must be true stock up 50%
Brawndo’s got Electrolytes … hehe