I’ve always seen outputs over inputs, flowing like gravity. Generally pulling all the cables should give your usual back to zero. In the case of mic lines they should be fully normalled because of phantom power potentially blowing stuff up. Keep preaching for patchbays!
Thank you for this. I especially appreciate your advice on “KNOWING YOUR NORMAL”. This is critical and should be at the top of the list of priorities. Second, while not everyone has a home studio that is used frequently by friends, band mates, etc. , I would add to your list “DO NOT TOUCH” the wiring from the back of the PB to your DI. Twice people that I did not training or thought they knew how to use the PB to route the signal through my outboard gear would get frustrated, not ask for help , and then would pull ou out I/Os from the DI and from the outboard gear. It was a disaster to have to redo the mess that they created. I even had sign on the back end of my mobile rig that said “DO NOT TOUCH” with my phone number as I let a friend use it in his professional studio. I walked into the studio quite by accident and they guys were taking the I?Os out trying to get the powered speakers to work using the PB. When you get it and set it, only you should be able to touch the business end of the wiring.Took me hours in one case to fix what took me hours to create. The patchbay is amazing--keeps my studio clean and make routing a signal in and out of your gear and into your DAW lightning fast!
Totally agree. Since installing a patch bay my decision making during mixing and recording has been so much more free. Before I was kinda set to one or two settings as I could not easily get behind the racks to re-route outboard gear. Great video and great message!
Hell yeah,Chris.I have a ton of stuff in my Studio and always struggling with connections in and out.Yes,i HAD a Patchbay before but for some reasons i never used it.Anyway,i ordered one now. Thanks Chris,your channel is always very valuable for me.Keep up the good work.
It's really hard to know and remember what's available and/or patched as 'normal' when the patch bay is not labeled. FWIW - The typical studio patch bay implementation has device outputs on top and inputs on the bottom.
Could you make a video on how, step by step you patch all the way in and out of the interfaces ad trhen ProTools inserts!! I just can´t get it when I come to the iserting - send in PT. Thx for being a great inspiration!
I'm planning my bays for a while. What I'd do regarding inserts is close the i/o loop on one section of the patches (depends how many you plan on having), since most insert cables are TRS to 2 TS plugs. Remember, outputs over inputs. So you'd plug the insert send to the top row and the return to the bottom. I use a 32x8 console to cater for mic pres and as front-end to my 8 i/o interface... the console is the heart of the studio. Its used in a split fashion, i.e., the first 16 channels are for mics, the latter for interface outs, fx returns. I send any mixer channel to the busses via toggles, patch my rack compressors etc to both channel strips, to any buss and the master buss... and do serial processing this way. I usually leave for instance a dbx 160A inserted on bus 1, where I often send kick and later bass... dbx 166 to another pair of busses... This is why I still didn't get patchbays yet, even mackie and Behringer 16x4's have crazy amounts of routing for the small studio... but this won't allow me to send e.g. from one compressor straight to another, for now, without going through EQ and buss circuitry. In another (section of the) bay I'd load my racks i/o, maybe wired in thru-mode. and my mixer aux sends to a distribution amp i have. This one I'd split into fx racks (flangers, delays, that have their dedicated mixer channels) and phone amps. One can mult signal copies in a patchbay as well. Good luck!
I would LOVE to understand this better, but unfortunately you lost me when you started saying things like "...these are normalled, 1-16, from the patchbay...". It's like you started at Gear 4, but what happened to upshifting through Gears 1, 2, 3? I WANT to do this in my studio, but this video (I suggest) should have started at a way more basic level, maybe with some block diagrams explaining the basics, what "normalled" means, what the difference is between the top row of a patchbay and the bottom row, etc -- and THEN showing how you've implemented these concepts in your home studio. Also, a question -- I always assumed that XLR was the way to go, and that converting XLR to TRS was a no-no (adds noise, or whatever) -- but you talk of "XLR-to-TRS" conversion. So then, un-XLR-ing a pathway is acceptable? Anyway, would love to see "Gears 1, 2, 3" that precede this more advanced presentation. And as I said, block diagrams or simple graphics would really be helpful, as opposed to just saying things like "...this goes from the patchbay, to the Octapad over there, and also to the audio interface...". -- it's really hard to picture what that means signal-flow-wise. Hope this is helpful feedback!!
A Normalled patchbay has vertical pairs of jacks (usually In and Out) where audio automatically flows between the two jacks. Usually, patchbays rear panel connections have some option for normalling. Normalled patchbays can be Full-Normalled Half-Normalled, or isolated. When you are using your patch bay at Full-Normal the rear panel connections are linked, but are broken when a front panel connection is made. Using it at Half-Normal which I believe is what he has setup I could be wrong, is one in which the rear panel connections are linked and when a connection is made to the top row of the front panel it will not break the link, but a connection to the bottom row does break the link. Non-Normal or “isolated” means the rear panel connections are not linked to each other and are routed directly to front panel connections. Which then you can use the top and bottom rows of the front panel independently.
I'm a little confused.When Graham gave a tour of his studio (2 different ones), he didn't have a patchbay; however, here on his channel he has you giving us your case for why every studio needs a patchbay.I could use some enlightenment as to why one person on the same channel doesn't, while another person on the same channel says it's a necessity.Thanks so much for the help!! Blessings, Scott
IIRC he did have a snake/breakout cable or mic patch somewhere else...? I recall Graham's bud Joe Gilder/HSC advocating for these as patchbay alternatives. Even though they don't do quite the same job. my take is that it boils down to whether you feel the need/would take advantage at your current setup. By using a mixer/console I could delay the need to some extent, but imho wiring a patchbay it's hardly justifiable for a 2i/o rig. OTOH there's a producer in Brazil who once told, as soon as you have any piece of gear you should get a patchbay.
In RUclips video titles it is common to exaggerate and generalise to get more views. Even in the video Chris makes a compelling argument as to why one needs a patchbay. Still, it does not mean that he is talking to you in your particular situation and recommending you to get one. Just a statement in a conversation from one point of view in his particular studio. Graham´s studio is a small home studio (last I saw), so he has a smaller setup, which then needs less connectivity. It´s all about what you need to connect and with what. There is no stress. You´ll figure it out. Personally I connect mic pres straight to interface and anything else through mixer. The 2 compressors are also direct to and from the interface, but the other has double connectors, so it gets a signal from the mixer as well, allowing me to record any signal present in the mixer through it. No need for a patchbay.
Hahaha my God..Not even kidding I was thinking about getting a patch bay and I came on to RUclips to view reviews on a few to buy one and why. The first video on my feed was yours great timing lol
Hi Chris On the front of the patchbay isn’t the top row suppose to be the physical out of say my pre-amp???im I getting things wrong??? Your video shows the physical outs of your pre-amps are on your bottom row of your patchbay… Is it the industry standard to do it like that???? Thx for your help!!! Have a nice day
Every patch at in bigger studios I’ve used have been bottom row comes from tracking rooms, and top row is inputs to interface/outboard gear. But there’s no wrong way to do it. Just make sure you know your normal. :)
I´m getting confused every time I watch a patchbay video and this is no exeption I am afraid. I got a "studio" inside my house and another one out in my garage. Inside the house I use an 8 channel saffire pro 10 i/o firewire soundcard and an blackmagic design atem tvs camera swithcer. Internally in the computer inside the house which is a aos hackintosh I got the Intensity pro capturecard which I use in all my three computers I run in my combined recording and livestreaming setup. So I got an 8 channel audio recording "studio" hooked up to a 6 channel video "studio" going in to the intensity pro. I can either route main audio and main video out through the atem tvs or the intensity pro. I want to hook up the inside to the garage setup. I can do that two ways either by analog cabling for the audio to route 8 channels out to the garage studio or over sdi cable and converters. In my garage I have an m-audio delta 1010 pci 8 channel soundcard and a intensity pro capturecard in another hackintosh feeding the video and audio from my atem mini switcher over to another computer with another intensity pro that encodes the stream out to the internet. To the atem mini you can hook up two unbalanced stereo audio signals which means you get pretty much unlimited audio channels and at least 4 cams, at least if you only use one atem mini (I got two, one on the shelf on standby). I got it set up at the moment so that line in 1 hooks up to a multichannel behringer mixer with unbalanced output and the output from logics output 3-4 to line in 2. The video is full HD =1080p but I livestream to only free sites so I downscale it to 720p before it hits the internet. I also got a Lenovo y720 hook up to the atem mini out in the garage over usb so I can do additional cool stuff and broadcast to two sites the same time and if I want I can hook it up over hdmi in to an input on the mini and stream the laptops desktop and audio in high quality. I wanna use my patchbay to route plugins, audio, softamps back and forth as I need without it getting to messy and so far I have not been able to figure out how to do it. The lenovo laptop is just a bonus piece of gear and will only be used for switching cams and the desktop and its audio. Help lol
Your advice not only applies for music production but to any professional setup where you have to connect multiple electronic devices in changing pattern. Benefits as you said: 1) Easy reset to standard settings 2) hustle free experimenting without thinking about technical stuff 3) minimal wear and tear of expensive equipment (easy replacement of just one single overused mediator part, the patchbay in your case)
Great information! Awesome! Although, there are lots of beginners that watch these videos to learn. This is for more advanced producers/ home studio owners. Great video 🤝🏼
Hi Chris. Great video. When using the xlr to trs snake, how do you get phantom power to your mics, especially the ones in the booth? I have been recording for a long while and was unaware that phantom power could travel trough anything but a xlr-xlr cable. Could you please explain? Cheers
This is a great video however I am still in denial. I do not wanna have even patch cables showing I just wanna show my gear and speakers and have all the cables hidden
Thanks Chris for sharing your expertise. Maybe off subject but do you have an issue with reflection coming off your mac monitor when using the mic? thanks in advance.
i guess you don't need to convince guys who come from computer networks. they like neat cable management, too. that's my problem with the cable mess of modular synths :-)
I’ve always seen outputs over inputs, flowing like gravity. Generally pulling all the cables should give your usual back to zero. In the case of mic lines they should be fully normalled because of phantom power potentially blowing stuff up. Keep preaching for patchbays!
Thank you for this. I especially appreciate your advice on “KNOWING YOUR NORMAL”. This is critical and should be at the top of the list of priorities. Second, while not everyone has a home studio that is used frequently by friends, band mates, etc. , I would add to your list “DO NOT TOUCH” the wiring from the back of the PB to your DI. Twice people that I did not training or thought they knew how to use the PB to route the signal through my outboard gear would get frustrated, not ask for help , and then would pull ou out I/Os from the DI and from the outboard gear. It was a disaster to have to redo the mess that they created. I even had sign on the back end of my mobile rig that said “DO NOT TOUCH” with my phone number as I let a friend use it in his professional studio. I walked into the studio quite by accident and they guys were taking the I?Os out trying to get the powered speakers to work using the PB. When you get it and set it, only you should be able to touch the business end of the wiring.Took me hours in one case to fix what took me hours to create. The patchbay is amazing--keeps my studio clean and make routing a signal in and out of your gear and into your DAW lightning fast!
Totally agree. Since installing a patch bay my decision making during mixing and recording has been so much more free. Before I was kinda set to one or two settings as I could not easily get behind the racks to re-route outboard gear. Great video and great message!
This video of yours has been the most impactful, Chris.
Thank you.
Hell yeah,Chris.I have a ton of stuff in my Studio and always struggling with connections in and out.Yes,i HAD a Patchbay before but for some reasons i never used it.Anyway,i ordered one now. Thanks Chris,your channel is always very valuable for me.Keep up the good work.
It's really hard to know and remember what's available and/or patched as 'normal' when the patch bay is not labeled. FWIW - The typical studio patch bay implementation has device outputs on top and inputs on the bottom.
Could you make a video on how, step by step you patch all the way in and out of the interfaces ad trhen ProTools inserts!! I just can´t get it when I come to the iserting - send in PT. Thx for being a great inspiration!
I second that. That would be great to see
I'm planning my bays for a while. What I'd do regarding inserts is close the i/o loop on one section of the patches (depends how many you plan on having), since most insert cables are TRS to 2 TS plugs. Remember, outputs over inputs. So you'd plug the insert send to the top row and the return to the bottom.
I use a 32x8 console to cater for mic pres and as front-end to my 8 i/o interface... the console is the heart of the studio. Its used in a split fashion, i.e., the first 16 channels are for mics, the latter for interface outs, fx returns. I send any mixer channel to the busses via toggles, patch my rack compressors etc to both channel strips, to any buss and the master buss... and do serial processing this way.
I usually leave for instance a dbx 160A inserted on bus 1, where I often send kick and later bass... dbx 166 to another pair of busses... This is why I still didn't get patchbays yet, even mackie and Behringer 16x4's have crazy amounts of routing for the small studio... but this won't allow me to send e.g. from one compressor straight to another, for now, without going through EQ and buss circuitry.
In another (section of the) bay I'd load my racks i/o, maybe wired in thru-mode. and my mixer aux sends to a distribution amp i have. This one I'd split into fx racks (flangers, delays, that have their dedicated mixer channels) and phone amps. One can mult signal copies in a patchbay as well. Good luck!
I would LOVE to understand this better, but unfortunately you lost me when you started saying things like "...these are normalled, 1-16, from the patchbay...". It's like you started at Gear 4, but what happened to upshifting through Gears 1, 2, 3? I WANT to do this in my studio, but this video (I suggest) should have started at a way more basic level, maybe with some block diagrams explaining the basics, what "normalled" means, what the difference is between the top row of a patchbay and the bottom row, etc -- and THEN showing how you've implemented these concepts in your home studio. Also, a question -- I always assumed that XLR was the way to go, and that converting XLR to TRS was a no-no (adds noise, or whatever) -- but you talk of "XLR-to-TRS" conversion. So then, un-XLR-ing a pathway is acceptable? Anyway, would love to see "Gears 1, 2, 3" that precede this more advanced presentation. And as I said, block diagrams or simple graphics would really be helpful, as opposed to just saying things like "...this goes from the patchbay, to the Octapad over there, and also to the audio interface...". -- it's really hard to picture what that means signal-flow-wise. Hope this is helpful feedback!!
A Normalled patchbay has vertical pairs of jacks (usually In and Out) where audio automatically flows between the two jacks. Usually, patchbays rear panel connections have some option for normalling.
Normalled patchbays can be Full-Normalled Half-Normalled, or isolated.
When you are using your patch bay at Full-Normal the rear panel connections are linked, but are broken when a front panel connection is made.
Using it at Half-Normal which I believe is what he has setup I could be wrong, is one in which the rear panel connections are linked and when a connection is made to the top row of the front panel it will not break the link, but a connection to the bottom row does break the link. Non-Normal or “isolated” means the rear panel connections are not linked to each other and are routed directly to front panel connections. Which then you can use the top and bottom rows of the front panel independently.
I'm a little confused.When Graham gave a tour of his studio (2 different ones), he didn't have a patchbay; however, here on his channel he has you giving us your case for why every studio needs a patchbay.I could use some enlightenment as to why one person on the same channel doesn't, while another person on the same channel says it's a necessity.Thanks so much for the help!!
Blessings, Scott
IIRC he did have a snake/breakout cable or mic patch somewhere else...? I recall Graham's bud Joe Gilder/HSC advocating for these as patchbay alternatives. Even though they don't do quite the same job.
my take is that it boils down to whether you feel the need/would take advantage at your current setup. By using a mixer/console I could delay the need to some extent, but imho wiring a patchbay it's hardly justifiable for a 2i/o rig. OTOH there's a producer in Brazil who once told, as soon as you have any piece of gear you should get a patchbay.
In RUclips video titles it is common to exaggerate and generalise to get more views. Even in the video Chris makes a compelling argument as to why one needs a patchbay. Still, it does not mean that he is talking to you in your particular situation and recommending you to get one. Just a statement in a conversation from one point of view in his particular studio. Graham´s studio is a small home studio (last I saw), so he has a smaller setup, which then needs less connectivity. It´s all about what you need to connect and with what. There is no stress. You´ll figure it out.
Personally I connect mic pres straight to interface and anything else through mixer. The 2 compressors are also direct to and from the interface, but the other has double connectors, so it gets a signal from the mixer as well, allowing me to record any signal present in the mixer through it. No need for a patchbay.
@@joaoantoniovione484 Thanks so much! You response is very helpful:) I appreciate your help and time!!
@@meomarte Thanks for your help and time!! I do appreciate it! You reply is very helpful as well:)
Hahaha my God..Not even kidding I was thinking about getting a patch bay and I came on to RUclips to view reviews on a few to buy one and why. The first video on my feed was yours great timing lol
Hi Chris
On the front of the patchbay isn’t the top row suppose to be the physical out of say my pre-amp???im I getting things wrong???
Your video shows the physical outs of your pre-amps are on your bottom row of your patchbay…
Is it the industry standard to do it like that????
Thx for your help!!!
Have a nice day
Every patch at in bigger studios I’ve used have been bottom row comes from tracking rooms, and top row is inputs to interface/outboard gear. But there’s no wrong way to do it. Just make sure you know your normal. :)
Thank you Chris for your answer….
Nice studio!!!!
Good tutorial!!!!
I´m getting confused every time I watch a patchbay video and this is no exeption I am afraid.
I got a "studio" inside my house and another one out in my garage. Inside the house I use an 8 channel saffire pro 10 i/o firewire soundcard and an blackmagic design atem tvs camera swithcer. Internally in the computer inside the house which is a aos hackintosh I got the Intensity pro capturecard which I use in all my three computers I run in my combined recording and livestreaming setup.
So I got an 8 channel audio recording "studio" hooked up to a 6 channel video "studio" going in to the intensity pro. I can either route main audio and main video out through the atem tvs or the intensity pro. I want to hook up the inside to the garage setup. I can do that two ways either by analog cabling for the audio to route 8 channels out to the garage studio or over sdi cable and converters.
In my garage I have an m-audio delta 1010 pci 8 channel soundcard and a intensity pro capturecard in another hackintosh feeding the video and audio from my atem mini switcher over to another computer with another intensity pro that encodes the stream out to the internet.
To the atem mini you can hook up two unbalanced stereo audio signals which means you get pretty much unlimited audio channels and at least 4 cams, at least if you only use one atem mini (I got two, one on the shelf on standby). I got it set up at the moment so that line in 1 hooks up to a multichannel behringer mixer with unbalanced output and the output from logics output 3-4 to line in 2.
The video is full HD =1080p but I livestream to only free sites so I downscale it to 720p before it hits the internet.
I also got a Lenovo y720 hook up to the atem mini out in the garage over usb so I can do additional cool stuff and broadcast to two sites the same time and if I want I can hook it up over hdmi in to an input on the mini and stream the laptops desktop and audio in high quality.
I wanna use my patchbay to route plugins, audio, softamps back and forth as I need without it getting to messy and so far I have not been able to figure out how to do it.
The lenovo laptop is just a bonus piece of gear and will only be used for switching cams and the desktop and its audio.
Help lol
Nice! 👍🏼 Do the quality/price of a patch bay influences the quality of the sound coming through it?
It affects it as much as the quality of your cables affect it.
Your advice not only applies for music production but to any professional setup where you have to connect multiple electronic devices in changing pattern. Benefits as you said:
1) Easy reset to standard settings
2) hustle free experimenting without thinking about technical stuff
3) minimal wear and tear of expensive equipment (easy replacement of just one single overused mediator part, the patchbay in your case)
Sweet advice to watch during sunrise :)
Great information! Awesome! Although, there are lots of beginners that watch these videos to learn. This is for more advanced producers/ home studio owners. Great video 🤝🏼
Thank you, Chris! I am a believer in cable management and organization. Can you recommend any patch bay brands and approximate price points?
Hi Chris. Great video. When using the xlr to trs snake, how do you get phantom power to your mics, especially the ones in the booth? I have been recording for a long while and was unaware that phantom power could travel trough anything but a xlr-xlr cable. Could you please explain? Cheers
My question as well….. and also how to prevent 48VDC to get into equipment where it does not supposed to go into….
Phantom power will travel through a trs patch bay just fine!
@@chrisliepe wow, you learn something new every day!thanks Chris
This is a great video however I am still in denial. I do not wanna have even patch cables showing I just wanna show my gear and speakers and have all the cables hidden
Thanks Chris for sharing your expertise. Maybe off subject but do you have an issue with reflection coming off your mac monitor when using the mic? thanks in advance.
Thanks! Reflection off the computer hasn’t been an issue for me
Don’t get me wrong. Everything Chis is saying is relevant, but connector possibly breaking on the interface might be the best point. That would suck.
Hi great info...I'm the first to view... ❤️😊
i guess you don't need to convince guys who come from computer networks. they like neat cable management, too.
that's my problem with the cable mess of modular synths :-)
5s for home :-)