Too Many Records the guy from Vinyl Safari shared this myth, people really,respect him, so I was upset he believes it. He also said clear was the worst....but clear is a lack of color, black is dyed! It’s naturally clear. so by that logic, wouldn’t black sound bad too. Couldn’t believe they even put in the documentary, one that I loved besides that. He also says records are fine stacked on top of each other..which he looks at 100k+ records a year in all conditions...so I guess he’d know? Idk
I started buying records 5 years ago and for a casual listener like me, it was all good until I found your channel. There's tons of good information and after 5 years of using a Crosley to play my records, I recently bought an Audio Technica: AT-LP120XUSB. Some might read this comment and think "Oh, you should have bought this or that" but for me who lives in Brazil this hobby is really expensive and the 120X feels like a premium turntable. The counter-weight helped a ton with the records that used to skip on my old portable Crosley. When I installed Edifier speakers the quality went from 8 to 8000. Thank you for all the info! =D
@@cynical8330 If you think $250 it's expensive you will freak out now. I paid close to U$600 for this turntable at Amazon Brazil (because I live in Brazil). :)
The big deal with “non-black” vinyl, is that it’s harder to see scratches on them. So when buying USED non-black vinyl, you’re more likely to get a damaged pressing since you can’t see the scratches easy easily. I think that’s what led to that myth.
I don't think that's the origin of it. I think it's more about one-off novelty pressings, kind of like picture discs, where the color is to get the album to sell. For example from a few years ago, a bunch of record store day releases were hastily pressed, and a bunch of them have quality control issues. It's not because they are color per se, but because less care was put into them since they were novelty items. I think that's where the reputation came from. Two of my favorite pressings of all time are on colored transluscent vinyl, and they are highly regarded (ORG Nevermind reissue, and Garbage 20th anniversary double 45rpm). That said, I have had terrible luck with vinyl that has metallic lustre or some kind of strange additive added. Anecdotal with a small sample to be sure, but they sounded bad in the same way (crackle and surface noise), from different labels and different years. I suspect there is a physical / chemical challenge to get that type of material to yield a smooth surface when it has embedded inhomogeneities. Anyway, I will not slander all colored vinyl, some of it is amazing. I think white vinyl looks especially amazing. I appreciate that non-black vinyl seems to attract less dust, too. However, I think we should be honest about the reasons why this "myth" arose, due to poor quality control and, in some instances, actual chemistry.
I have to wonder if this new generation of vinyl collectors would have be able to survive back in the 60's and 70's. The concerns we had were, make sure that it was in Stereo, pay not more the $5.00 and pray that when got home and opened it that it was not warped. Not all retailers would let you do a return. Oh yeah, I've had to make my tone arm heavier for skips just so I record it on my reel to reel. Then I wouldn't have to play the album.
Warped records are easily solved using a clamp , I buy a lot of new records and find most are slightly warped, but the clamp solves this issue, not to mention that new pressings seem to be missing the quality control at plants, the amount I have had to return because of distortion or it is full of crackle and pops , even after cleaning ....back in the 70s/80s pressing were far superior in my humble opinion
LOL ! I remember taping a coin to my tonearm in the 70's when I was a kid. I t was a quick cheap fix until I saved for a good turntable. Ahhhhh memories. You're right about the 180 gram too. I have lots of them that are great and some that sound like they're years old. It's not the weight, it's the quality of the mixing and pressing..
I have been collecting vinyl since the late 1950's. I found a very inexpensive cleaner that is magic. Take a trip to Walmart and get a can of Sprayway, use a lint free cloth. I have cleaned thousands and thousands of vinyl and shellac records. You can also remove gummed labels from the spindle area. I bought vinyl from estate sales that were in attics for decades funky, moldy, and crusty. Spray this on and wipe the grime away. One more tip, if you have some musty old jackets and sleeves, take a dryer sheet and enclose one in the album or 45 and put them in a air tight plastic case for a day or two, or three. That's it, hope you all stay safe. Rock on.
One possible cause of minor warps on current releases is the packaging, specifically gatefolds. I just received "The Saint of Lost Causes" by Justin Townes Earle from New West Records. Looking at it from the top, there is a 1/8-inch gap between the panels at the spine, while there is no gap at the other end. You can actually see how the panels are close together up to about 2 inches from the spine, where they start to slightly curve apart. With time, the record could warp to that same curve. The solution is to store the record in between the gatefolds, or to place a piece of cardboard in between the gatefolds to keep them from curving.
Back in the 70s putting a penny or a half penny on the head of the needle was common, I used to do it when I was a young kid , when you are that age you don't know about quality equipment
I think the #1 myth I see/hear repeated is just that most people assume all vintage vinyl is valuable, or that their grandpa's collection of Elton John and Neil Diamond is something like an investment. Like, if it's old it must be worth something, right? Of course back when it was the main medium of music distribution millions of copies were made, making a run of the mill used copy of most most popular music worth under $5 or $10. Sure, you can still get $30 for a Beatles record in good knick, and there are a few albums here and there with value for specific reasons (Ludwig pressing of LZII for instance) but that's the exception, not the rule.
@@TooManyRecords Right, but there are ring clamps, too. I would also be careful about putting weights on a bearing not designed to handle it, but spindle clamps can be useful.
Totally agree with all these points. 180 gram vinyl has been one of the biggest cons ever, like you said it's the quality of the press and not the thickness that matters. I've also got picture discs that sound decent, it helps if the music is of the heavier style in most cases too.
I am looking 70 years old straight in the eyes. In my younger years, I didn't care much for my records. "Revolver" and "Aja" are scratched so I got new ones of 180 grams. "Aja" sounds incredible (better than the original?) "Revolver" sounds horrible, and I'll listen to my old copy. Mastering, I think, is the key. With 180 grams, it's hit or miss...
Great tips thanks. I bought my Technics SL-QX300 Turntable new in 1985. It is Quartz Auto Direct drive with a variable pitch and can be back tracked due to the direct drive. It has always sounded great and with the TP4 cartridge design it is just plug and play with no fine tuning of the arm or cartridge at all and I bought a Audio Technica high quality new cartridge new on super sale for $10. It sounds great with my Yamaha receiver and my 1977 Pro JBL 4311 WX Control Monitor speakers I bought new in 1977 for $900 and all original in perfect condition with a 7 lb magnet on the 12" woofer. Rock and roll LPS and CDS sound awesome.
Great video Matt. I am sure you know but others may not that MOFi actually made a pink vinyl version of Beck's Sea Changes which everyone raves about. I do wonder if the audiophile companies almost exclusively use black vinyl because of the colored vinyl myth though. Vintage gear has come way up in price...i love vintage receivers and will never go new...i have listened and anything comprable to my sansui 5000x is at least $2,000. I do however want to do a modern table upgrade...either fluance or clear audio...music hall makes some grest turntables too. You are spot on about vintage gear requiring vintage repairs though.
The audiophile companies know that a well mastered record can be any color, however, I believe they do mostly black to appeal to purists/people that believe the myth.
The carbon added to vinyl to make it black strengthens the PVC mix and actually does have an effect on sound quality. They all start out clear, and clear records tend to sound the worst. Modern manufacturing has led to mostly minuscule differences in colored vinyl VS black but you are incorrect in your assertion that they are one in the same.
My Michell Orbe has a screw-down clamp, which sorts out any warping. One thing you don't mention is the whole not being exactly in the centre, which can lead to speed instability. You can bodge that with a small file, but getting it centred on the turntable can be tricky.
The major reason why there is so much warped used vinyl out there is improper record storage. The correct way to store records is vertically, in a record cabinet, in spaces of about 12" max where the records are tucked in nicely, not too loose, not too tight. So all those 'vinylafficionado's' with their record cabinets where stacks of records are sitting 'casually' under an angle....they're doing it wrong! I've seen that also on this channel! (for instance in the video "I made a second vinyl listening room". And flip bins are the worst.
I’m totally with you on the warped 180G records. I think I have one nasty standard weight warped record, an OG Purple Rain but it plays fine. All the other warped records I have are all 180G. So annoying.
Totally agree with you about picture discs. We own a few picture discs and they all sound great. I'm gonna say this myth comes from when they started making them in the 50's (I think) and how those sounded as well as playing them on a suitcase player (generally anything played on those doesn't sound the greatest) . The oldest PD's we own are Bowie's Hunky Dory & Let's Dance released in 1984 & 1983 respectively. Now while we hardly spin these due to their collectible nature. They STILL sound great. As for vintage gear, the deals are drying up but they're still there. I've found both of my kids' turntables on offerup and I see them all the time at thrift shops for no more than $20. Yes, you'll have to get a new stylus and MAYBE a belt but we're taking $8 for the belt & $20 for the common AT cartridge.
I generally think as those Vogue Picture Records from the 1946 as the beginning, I sold a few over the years, mostly Big Band etc. There are earlier examples, anti-piracy techniques, propaganda, soviet x-ray (I think those were later) cereal boxes, postcards and other novelties etc. When it comes to modern picture disc it was actually 1970 or 71 with the second "Psychedelic Underground" compilation followed by the first band to release one, Curved Air - Air Conditioning (I got one, I love the that band)
If you are playing a warped record, ensure subsonic filtering is in place to prevent unnecessary/extreme woofer excursions. Such excursions steal amplifier power and may also cause amplifier clipping when listening at loud levels.
I have never heard a good picture disc. Tried many of them on a pretty revealing systems all with bad results: Schitt Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Music Hall CC 2.0, Simaudio Moon LP310. I would love to learn of what pictures discs sound as good as a normal pressing.
One detail you missed on the black vs. color vinyl dilemma: it might not make any difference for the casual listener at home, but if you plan to take out your records and DJ with them at bars and clubs color vinyl is often harder to use because you can't see the grooves clearly in the gloomy DJ booth setting, so finding the right spot to drop the needle can become quite a challenge, and when you're trying to make smooth mixes you only have a few seconds to find that spot, so yeah... black vinyl all the way.
Great video, right on the money for all these myths! I want to debunk another for lucky #7 because I've seen this myth too frequently in the community... And this one hurts me a bit. Myth: Vinyl sounds better than digital. It can in some cases, but it depends. Most modern pressings are sourced from the already available digital masters with additional mastering that degrades the sound in order for it to translate well on vinyl. Those are not worth playing on a turntable in my opinion, and unfortunately this trend is becoming increasingly common. The modern pressings that sound the best are the ones mastered specifically for vinyl from the mix itself by a capable mastering engineer. That gives the mastering engineer more room to work with and the potential to outshine the digital master when it translates to vinyl. It can be hard to determine which albums have a proper master because the "remastered for vinyl" labeling can be misleading as it usually doesn't specify a source, but in general aim for albums that are mastered for vinyl, or are sourced from tape.
Absolutely! This this this. I will say, transfer of a digitized signal to the analog domain of cutting-groove-stylus-amplification does have some smoothing effect on the signal, kind of like dithering a redbook CD 16bit/44.1kHz in a higher resolution digital domain. I find this has a pleasing effect on the sound compared to the digital source. I have downloaded hi-res files presumably from a master subsequently used to cut a record, and I usually prefer the smoothness of the record (hopefully the vinyl mastering engineer didn't do too much damage). Maybe I need a better DAC, but I don't think it's the limiting factor. Sometimes the vinyl does retain some of the sound of the digital master, in which case it just sounds like a slightly impure or degraded hi-res file. I think this is especially true when significant digital filtering has been done and left a lot of high-frequency content, which sounds unnatural if not bright. Some modern electronic music falls into this category, but I have no problem listening to it in a natively digital environment. But, yes, I hate when I get a record that is well-pressed on quality vinyl, but from a crappy low-res master. What is the point of that? So annoying. It's really so sad that so many re-issues of classics are from "remastered" versions, which no doubt is digital unless otherwise stated. I have compared these to original pressings, and guess which I like more? It's so sad that this just adds more fuel to the flames of fervor for old / original pressings, when newer pressings can potentially sound even better if sourced from tapes in good shape. This just increases the price of pressings with quality masters, and lowers the standard while making it seem like people are being ridiculous for lusting and obsessing over high-price collectible records that admittedly command often-ludicrous prices. I know digital masters can sound great, but I would appreciate some transparency about the process. Whenever I see "remastered" without any additional information about how, it just makes me sad.
Thanks for this video dude, I just got Porter Robinson's "Nurture" as a gift from my mom and both records are warped and it constantly changes pitch on track 5 so I have to look for a new copy
I would still recommend vintage gear, especially with the prices now, and its a pretty easy fix. however for turntables i9 recommend KISS, the pro-ject rpm carbon series is perfect for beginners and mid level, and maybe even mid to top experienced players. i changed a few things in mine, but now only if i go around the price of a car i would maybe get the same sound
Thanks for the information. I'm pretty new with vinyl collection. What's up with 45 RPMs vs 33s? Is it better sounding record if the pressing is 45? Thanks in advance.
@Nicholas Exactly. Lower information density means that more information per second is able to be encoded above the noise threshold. Same idea with faster tape speeds. This is in addition to having more physical space for the grooves, as was previously mentioned.
@Nicholas I get it. I just don't like criticizing people who buy the cheap ones because they can't afford better ones. My point was that the stylus is upgradable.
I love that more and more people are getting into vinyl, but I wish that people wouldn't pick up those cheap ass Crosley suitcase turntables. There's so many better options for entry-level turntables that won't destroy their records, and I want them to get a turntable that'll allow them to appreciate their vinyl and encourage them to build their collection rather than tossing out their Crosley and moving on to a different hobby after they find out their Crosley sucks.
Oh, boy. I bought a Goodbye Yellow Brick Road Ltd. ed. 2 picture discs and a Sign o the Times RSD picture discs, And I don't have my system running yet until I buy the speakers . I was so enthusiastic about them. Should I re-sell them? Sigh!
Check Discogs to see what people have to say about those. My brother in law has the Prince pic disc like you and never has complained about the sound quality on that pressing :)
There is a grain of truth to this. Back in the day, inner sleeves for higher end records sometimes had a plastic liner. This plastic was not the polyethylene that is used in modern archival sleeves, but usually pvc or some other unstable compound. Over time this plastic releases a gas that reacts with the PVC in the vinyl record, permanently damaging it and potentially causing audible degradation. Leaving the record in the shrink wrap sealed these gasses in, and makes the situation worse. For old records that were sealed and never opened, this can really ruin those records if they have those problematic inner sleeves (which were popular in the 60s especially). That said, the shrink wrap is also usually a low-grade plastic, but shouldn't really pose any problems to modern records in modern sleeves, since there is little if any offgassing, and the record isn't right up against it anyway. I wouldn't worry about it unless you have unopened vintage records, which would probably be toast at this point anyway.
ok i used a coin played two records before taking the coin off would that have ruined them, i have now fixed the problem but im nervous that i might have wrecked some records
I have a question. I am considering the crosley c62 (the newest version). It has anti skate, a counterweight and relatively good needle I think. (The anti skate is only in de newest versions some pictures are from the older version :/ ) I am a student and on a low budget and have not very much place. I am just coming in to the hobby. But because there are some people that crosley is al bad. I wanted a second opinion🤷🏼♀️ But would you recommend it? I
I have never ever heard any not bad sound picture discs. About the coloured vinyls, your are partly right according to my experience. Coloured Vinyls sound the some as black but splatted sound worse but better then picture discs according to my experience.
I’m debating rather I should buy the audio-technica LP-60x or the 120 as my first record player. I like that the 60x is automatic but it doesn’t have the counterweight. Is the counterweight worth it, or would the 60x be fine for a casual listener like me?
The LP-60X has a counterweight, it’s just not adjustable. It’s a fine turntable. The Heyday at target is about the same price but isn’t automatic. The heyday has Bluetooth which is cool
@@RoastBeefSandwich Bluetooth defeats the point of listening to vinyl. It digitizes the sound. The non adjustable counterweight is a dealbreaker because the QC of those tables is spotty at best and some will cause skipping issues that you can't fix.
@@TooManyRecords I disagree that Bluetooth defeats the purpose. Bluetooth has more bandwidth than a vinyl record so provided the Bluetooth ADC is done well there should be no loss of quality. Besides, a lot of people nowadays have very good bluetooth headphones and speakers so it's silly that they have to buy wired speakers or headphones just for their turntable. I hear of very few problems with the AT-LP60X. But as I said the Heyday is basically the same price and it has a traditional adjustable counterweight but it's fully manual and bigger so there are trade-offs. I do amateur transfers of vinyl records to digital and know a little bit about this stuff, maybe just enough to be dangerous sometimes but I've owned turntables for 30 years and have been transferring records to tape or digital for at least 15 of those years.
@@RoastBeefSandwich Not to extend this debate too much, but Bluetooth just does not have the same bandwidth as a high-resolution digital signal or a high-quality analog signal. This is not really something which is contested amongst audio engineers. Even the latest Bluetooth technology is not capable of that bandwidth. However, Bluetooth can sound very good. With an entry-level turntable setup, you probably aren't able to get the highest-resolution analog signal possible, so it's mostly a question of which is the limiting factor -- the Bluetooth technology or the turntable fidelity. With even a decently good system, I'm pretty sure the turntable has more information than the Bluetooth can faithfully transfer, but it doesn't mean Bluetooth can't sound good. There is also the amplifier and the speaker / headphone to consider, and since these could also be limiting factors, these are also quality bottlenecks that might render it a wash. I personally don't really get the point of a turntable with Bluetooth, convenience aside. Might as well just stream something direct to the Bluetooth device instead of going through all that hassle, at least from an audio quality perspective. Of course I won't deny the cache and cool factor of playing a record. As for the fixed counterweight, it should be fine, really, as long as everything is working as it should. However, quality control can indeed be an issue. Moreover, over time, there may need to be some microadjustments that simply can't be made. Springs wear out, bearings wear out, things go slightly out of spec. I know multiple people who have experienced issues with their LP60 after a few years and had to upgrade simply because there were no adjustments possible or user-serviceable parts to modify.
I didn't know there are people who think colored vinyl sounds bad compared to black. I have always said picture discs sound horrible. Though I haven't purchased any in several years.
Black vinyl is harder and glossy as a result of using black carbon in the mix to create them . Coloured vinyl lacks this. There is also great variances depending on the colouring used.
With splatter or multi color vinyl there most definitely is a quality difference...not huge, but in silent parts you can hear different noise as it goes over the different colors.
Comment 1: Crosleys are terrible. If you are in possession of such equipment please use it as target practice. Comment 2: 180g thing - absolutely right. I have some new records which are 180g and they are a little disappointing. First thing I do with a new record before playing it is run it through the record cleaner. Removes crap left over from manufacturing process, and kills static. But still they have cracks and pops. Being thick and chunky does not make up for otherwise bad quality.
I have the old Abbey Road picture disc from the late 70s and it sounds horrendous. But the backside of the cover already warns you: Sound quality may not be comparable to conventional edition.
I have a pioneer pl-570 that I got at good will for $10 and all it needed was a new stylus which set me back $25. I’ve used that for the last 4-5 years. I’m upgrading to a lp120 as I’m getting more serious about vinyl listening again.
I have a question ...I have a collection of albums that have been stored away in record shelves for about 10 years. they were clean when they were put there and were not touched after that. They were in their covers with inner sleeves.Can I just take them out and play them or do I need to do anything first?
They should be good to go. I'd run a carbon fibre brush (I like the Audioquest Gold on amazon, you get what you pay for, you can see it linked in my description) over each side as it spins before dropping the needle to get any surface level dust off before play.
I would say (IME) that picture discs generally don't sound as good as colored vinyl. I'm sure good one's exist, but the vast majority of picture discs I have sound like crap. If I had the choice I'd 100% go with a non-picture version of a record. If picture disc is the only option, then maybe go for it.
Okay cool, I was told to stay away from picture discs, that the sound wasn't great. I'm glad to hear they improved. I did fall into the idea 180 gram etc is better sound quality. Now I won't repeat that and sound like a asshole.
The vintage gear comments are well said--and may not go far enough. Gear gets OLD. The capacitors in vintage gear have aged and they go bad. If you're not willing or able to restore and repair vintage gear, then think it over carefully. Yes, the Harmon Kardon Citation 12 power amp is a GREAT sounding amp. BUT it was introduced in 1976! The earliest ones made will be 50 years old in 3 years!! What are the chances that the amp still meets its' specifications? Probably about ZERO. Caveat emptor.
Nope. Discogs comments for your pressing say it sounds great outside of surface noise in some quieter sections. Distortion is because of your individual copy (less likely) or an issue with your turntable or setup (more likely)
@@TooManyRecords Hate to admit I use a retro all in one record player. I have the Walmart metallica limited editions and they sound fine. Although it would be harder to hear if metal is distorted I would imagine. I also have queen greatest hits 2 and it sounds fine, so maybe it's the player, I'm not sure
That you should keep records sealed because one day it will be worth a gazillion dollars. Records are made to be played and enjoyed. Nobody can predict future market value. Sure there are obviously rare records. However keeping records sealed may actually cause them to warp, and gatefolds may stick together. It's a risk. A good reason not to buy 30 yr old sealed records, it might end up being expensive junk. Open your records and play them.
I have a LP60 in the bedroom and a Technics in the living room... I bought the LP60 second. I just needed a decent cheap player to plug into some speakers. LP60 is actually okay. Sometimes (very few) it plays some records better thanmy technics lol 😂
Not so much a myth more of a mystery. What causes clear vinyl records to go brown or 'tea stained', especially picture discs or uncut picture discs. Some say it's the PVC sleeve. Others suggest it's lack of light or even too much light. Do you have a theory on this my friend? Would love to know your take on it. Cheers, Col.
UV and offgassing from the PVC sleeve these usually come in will degrade vinyl. If you have white vinyl furniture that has been exposed to the sun, you'll notice how it permanently yellows because of photodegradation. The reaction with the gasses from the sleeve is different, but results in a similar chemical degradation that can cause discoloration. So yes, protect from the sun and get them out of those PVC sleeves. You can get Mobile Fidelity archival sleeves that have a transparent front if you want to still see the disc while in storage. Can put that in a clear sleeve cover and you can still see the thing, just protect it from UV by getting it away from the sun, fluorescent lamps, and halide bulbs.
I didn't get an LP120 but I did get an AT LP60 to replace one of those suitcase players and the audio difference through the same speakers was immediately noticeable. Skip those suitcase players. Start with a LP60 if you can't afford a 120. Just my opinion.
LP60 is almost no different from a suitcase player, honestly. Similar hardware. If you thought that was a big jump, wait until you get a 120. The funny thing is, if you skipped the 60 and the Suitcase and started with the 120 you'd be paying almost the same amount, haha.
I've heard this "180gr is just a buzz word" thing before - but isn't this a myth itself? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it so that when you buy a 180gr record you don't buy certainty of better sound, but you buy the potential of better sound? (of course given the grade of vinyl used is ok). Just like when you buy 45rpm you don't buy certainty of better sound, but merely the potential of better sound?
I think that it doesn’t matter as much as the mastering, if it’s virgin vinyl, and how it was cut. The same album on 180 gram and 150 gram can sound identical if all the other factors are equivalent.
Question! years ago i picked up a Dual 1229 for 10 dollars at a estate sale. it looked like it was never really played. Do you think i got a good deal on that, i ask because i don't know much about Dual
You basically robbed someone with out a weapon. Growing up Dual was the top tier of turntables. If it needs any repairs make sure you find some place can trust. What ever you pay in repairs if needed you will still come out ahead. Just go get the best cartridge you can and you will be good forever.
1, not a myth. The stylus that will come with something like a Crosley or Victrola suitcase player is a sapphire stylus and is only good for about 50 hrs of use and should be replaced with a diamond stylus. Also yes, the cartridge on those can be replaced and there's even an upgrade by banpa. 2 You contradict your points in myth 1. 3 Thicker vinyl allows for deeper grooves and allows for hotter masters and the ability to load more low end into the groove without the needle jumping out. While I agree that 180gram is often used for marketing, there's still a reason for them to exist. 4 Warps cause excess wow and flutter regardless of playability and should be avoided. Most warps are caused by incorrectly storing records but you never bothered to mention this. 5 There has been no actual improvement in 'picture disk technology'. You also contradict yourself here as well. Maybe you aren't the guy to be dispelling myths.
Tell me how the Crosley C200 is inferior to the ATP 120 table. The retail price point is usually 100 to 200 dollars less. BTW, it's the exact freaking table. But I'll listen....
I'll give you quartz lock. Tell me which and how the tonearm is different as it appears to be the same. The plinth is the same. The Crosley doesn't muck things up with USB conversion, etc. Rule of thumb in electronics for retail....the more bells and whistles you add is where you usually where you subtract somewhere else. What are your thoughts on the Crosley C10?
@@burdturglar I think you make a good point, which is to look at the quality and the specs more than the brand. A lot of nostalgia for vintage, for example, ignores that in many instances the performance is simply poorer. Build quality might have been better in certain cases, but the actual specs and performance may not measure up. The ridiculous prices from some vintage gear is simply astounding. In this case, the Crosley models you mentioned vs the Audio Technica, they do look to be remarkably similar. The issue is that the Crosley brand has been weakened because they offer systems that are much worse than the ones you mention, for example with built-in speakers, which are universally a compromise (at best). I think these Crosleys are what they are known for, but it seems they are venturing up the food chain, which I didn't know! Thanks for sharing.
@@burdturglar By the way, looking more closely at the C200, the plinth and tonearm base simply look like a cheaper plastic to me, but I haven't seen one in person. Also, the AT120 has adjustable vertical tracking angle (VTA), which the C200 does not. Most turntables in this price range or even higher don't have VTA adjustable on the fly like this, which is significant. Some cartridges are much more sensitive than others to this. C10 looks pretty good, though. It seems Crosley realizes people are wising up and looking at better turntables, so they are having to compete. These models you mentioned look like direct competitors to the AT120 and offerings from U-Turn and the like. I am not sure if their quality control standards and build quality are comparable, would be curious to check one out.
@@cesarcaro6767 I give you props for responding at length. I'm really freaking old and have done vinyl forever. As well as turntables.. I actually deal in Crosley at the moment. I wouldn't if I didn't trust them. What I tell people on the portable speaker embedded models is they do what they're supposed to. Nothing more or less. Now, moving up to the C200 and C300, these are essentially audio technica tables. The plinth is the same. Feet, etc. They a heavy duty workhorse. I may be wet but vta is adjustable. The ATP throws in 78 rpm which is essentially a waste, plus you can dj with the table (play backwards and forward). Wtf. Who wants to rip their vinyl up like that? Lol. I know so very few people who use a USB out on their tables. Both have on board preamps. The needles are essentially the same. Audio technica also makes lower end entry level fully auto tables that feel like a paper weight....just like Crosley. In regards to the C10, you mention Uturn which I've used but not sold on as the belt runs on the outside of the platter. So easy to pull it off when changing vinyl. Solid tables but just a design I didn't like. Another table brand that is awesome is Project. A little secret....project makes the Crosley C10. Top to bottom. Carbon graphite tonearm, ortofon cartridge that you can easily upgrade to your liking, manual belt drive. Solid plinth. Crosley also sells a separate inline preamp for 60 bucks that is really nice. BTW, also made by project 😊. The OP makes some good but obvious points to old guys like me. I get a bit riled when the uppity guys and gals jump on Crosley as crap but will hail the genius of audio technica and project in the same sentence. Yes, they have a rep for just portables, but they also upped their game. BTW, their portables will beat any victrola or other similar with a one year warranty, no questions. 😊🤘 rock on
Not a myth but too any new starters, if you see a record you want, just take it. You will most likely regret waiting on it and never being able to find it again
I would add a caveat to this, depending on the record in question. If a collector just wants any old copy of, say, the white album, or something else that can be found at any record store on earth in the $20-40 range, they shouldn't overpay for the first one they see. If it's one of those records that you've been shopping for for a year and it's $25 then sure, go for it, but a bit of patience can be a good thing if you want to avoid spending $50 on every record you want, which can turn you off the hobby if it starts hitting your finances. I only say this because I have made this mistake myself, or more specifically I bought an overpriced stereo version of records that I have since realized are better in mono (mid-60s stuff), etc. just because I was so excited to see it at all.
Don't know if I agree with this. It really depends on how "rare" the record is. I've spent hundreds (yes hundreds, with an S) on a single record because it was so "rare" that I just knew no record company would be repressing it. Then 2 years later I'm shopping and see the "rare" record that I spent $350 on with 3 new copies at a record store for $30. I honestly don't think there are any hard rules when it comes to record buying except that you're probably going to find the record for cheaper elsewhere at some point.
You missed the biggest myth of all. "Eh, I've been looking for this record for years....I'll think about it tonight and maybe come back and grab it tomorrow...It will still be here"!!!!!!!
it will if you stash it in a totally unreleated music section. Used to do this in record/cd and book stores. It was there maybe 80% of the time. I guess depends on how diligent they are on keeping order in the store.
@@djC653 Yeah, I work at two record stores now and I tend to find that quite a bit. ...and sorry to say I love being the spoiler and putting stuff back where it goes or on the wall lol.
I've been collecting records for close to 30 years, and I think I've only ever had one record that was unplayable due to warping. It's just not nearly as big a deal as people make it seem.
I received a record a few months ago that was so warped that it bumped the tonearm every rotation and would jump through the whole side in about 10 seconds. The band were really helpful and sent another one which was perfect. Seems like it might become more of an issue these days with more and more records being shipped in the mail.
Depends on where you are in my experience, any hotter climate (Israel, for instance) buying used vinyl is a crap shoot, especially because many warm places didn't get mass air conditioning until the 80s or 90s, so anything older has been layiing around on hot summer nights. This happened to all my dad's old records that were in the attic storage of a garage in the US south.
I have been collecting records for over 50 years, some of them are from 1948 when Columbia introduced 33 1/3. I have never had a warped record that was unable to play.
If my record is repeating the same grove line i spin it at 78 or 45 if playing a 33 album and 78 if playing a 45 to kind of make the stylus move to the next line
Purchased Physical Graffiti 40th on 180g (reissue’s only weight) unopened. Side 3 is unlistenable due to snaps/crackle straight from lead in to out. Surface looks flawless. Manufactured by Warner in California but printed in the EU? Please let Plant and Page know. Overall I steer clear of 180g if there’s a choice.
Most of the warping is due to shipping during the summer months , a box truck or any type of shipping container can get excessively hot during the summer months .
@@onearmleroy2696 Heavy pops are an obvious manufacturing quality control issue that's fairly easy to see if the pressing company actually checks for quality issues. They look like little bumps , I'd complain and demand a new record or refund . I always keep my receipts .
honestly tho? i never knew “colored vinyl sounds bad” was even talked about as a popular viewpoint until now. my personal experience with colored vinyl has always been poor, probably bc of the quality of the press, and they tend to be a selling point and “aesthetic”. i’ve personally never had a colored vinyl that has been indistinguishable from normal black wax as far as sound goes. although i only own like 4-5 colored vinyls, they all have inferior sound to them. like the bitcrushed or distorted. wish i could find higher quality colored presses.
Vinyl is naturally clear with a yellowish tint . Black is technically colored vinyl so any color you buy doesn't effect anything . I worked in Plastic manufacturing about 25 years ago lol.
well i find old equipment far more reliable than the latest one.I got a pioneer preciver which sounds just the bees knees and despite beeing nearkly 50 years old never needed any repair
Great video! Only caveat I would add to the colored vinyl vs black vinyl myth is I have found there is still one 'color' to stay away from and that's glow in the dark vinyl. Every one of those I have sounds terrible, I'd suggest staying away from GITD pressings.
Myth: Playing a record fresh out of the freezer or the oven will fix scratches, skips or loops. There is a ton of misinformation on LPs! Some will ruin your record! 😩😩😩
Myth: Colored vinyl tastes better than black vinyl.
This is false; they both taste exactly the same.
This is vital.
I heard Van Halen picked out all the brown vinyl from their collections.
You just spared me the struggle to try, thank you!
hogwash, green vinyl is the best
Too Many Records the guy from Vinyl Safari shared this myth, people really,respect him, so I was upset he believes it. He also said clear was the worst....but clear is a lack of color, black is dyed! It’s naturally clear. so by that logic, wouldn’t black sound bad too. Couldn’t believe they even put in the documentary, one that I loved besides that.
He also says records are fine stacked on top of each other..which he looks at 100k+ records a year in all conditions...so I guess he’d know? Idk
I started buying records 5 years ago and for a casual listener like me, it was all good until I found your channel. There's tons of good information and after 5 years of using a Crosley to play my records, I recently bought an Audio Technica: AT-LP120XUSB. Some might read this comment and think "Oh, you should have bought this or that" but for me who lives in Brazil this hobby is really expensive and the 120X feels like a premium turntable. The counter-weight helped a ton with the records that used to skip on my old portable Crosley. When I installed Edifier speakers the quality went from 8 to 8000. Thank you for all the info! =D
The LP120 is a great starting table. You made a solid choice my friend.
Edifier speakers are pretty decent cost-effective options. Enjoy!
I have the same, its a great turntable.
Where did you buy the audio technica turntable and how much did it set you back? I haven't seen it available for $250 since the pandemic hit.
@@cynical8330 If you think $250 it's expensive you will freak out now. I paid close to U$600 for this turntable at Amazon Brazil (because I live in Brazil). :)
The big deal with “non-black” vinyl, is that it’s harder to see scratches on them. So when buying USED non-black vinyl, you’re more likely to get a damaged pressing since you can’t see the scratches easy easily. I think that’s what led to that myth.
That could be a contributing factor but I wish people would elaborate on that when slandering colored vinyl.
You nailed it!
true, but almost all my colored vinyl is new
Some coloured vinyl you can see scratches and dust, trust me white LPs you can see anything on that disc 😂
I don't think that's the origin of it. I think it's more about one-off novelty pressings, kind of like picture discs, where the color is to get the album to sell. For example from a few years ago, a bunch of record store day releases were hastily pressed, and a bunch of them have quality control issues. It's not because they are color per se, but because less care was put into them since they were novelty items. I think that's where the reputation came from. Two of my favorite pressings of all time are on colored transluscent vinyl, and they are highly regarded (ORG Nevermind reissue, and Garbage 20th anniversary double 45rpm). That said, I have had terrible luck with vinyl that has metallic lustre or some kind of strange additive added. Anecdotal with a small sample to be sure, but they sounded bad in the same way (crackle and surface noise), from different labels and different years. I suspect there is a physical / chemical challenge to get that type of material to yield a smooth surface when it has embedded inhomogeneities.
Anyway, I will not slander all colored vinyl, some of it is amazing. I think white vinyl looks especially amazing. I appreciate that non-black vinyl seems to attract less dust, too. However, I think we should be honest about the reasons why this "myth" arose, due to poor quality control and, in some instances, actual chemistry.
I have to wonder if this new generation of vinyl collectors would have be able to survive back in the 60's and 70's. The concerns we had were, make sure that it was in Stereo, pay not more the $5.00 and pray that when got home and opened it that it was not warped. Not all retailers would let you do a return. Oh yeah, I've had to make my tone arm heavier for skips just so I record it on my reel to reel. Then I wouldn't have to play the album.
Warped records are easily solved using a clamp , I buy a lot of new records and find most are slightly warped, but the clamp solves this issue, not to mention that new pressings seem to be missing the quality control at plants, the amount I have had to return because of distortion or it is full of crackle and pops , even after cleaning ....back in the 70s/80s pressing were far superior in my humble opinion
LOL ! I remember taping a coin to my tonearm in the 70's when I was a kid. I t was a quick cheap fix until I saved for a good turntable. Ahhhhh memories. You're right about the 180 gram too. I have lots of them that are great and some that sound like they're years old. It's not the weight, it's the quality of the mixing and pressing..
I have been collecting vinyl since the late 1950's. I found a very inexpensive cleaner that is magic.
Take a trip to Walmart and get a can of Sprayway, use a lint free cloth. I have cleaned thousands and
thousands of vinyl and shellac records. You can also remove gummed labels from the spindle area.
I bought vinyl from estate sales that were in attics for decades funky, moldy, and crusty. Spray this on and wipe the grime away. One more tip, if you have some musty old jackets and sleeves, take a dryer sheet and enclose one in the album or 45 and put them in a air tight plastic case for a day or two, or three. That's it, hope you all stay safe. Rock on.
WOW...! Collecting from the "late 1950's"...me too! We're only a couple of the very few. Thanks for you comments.
One possible cause of minor warps on current releases is the packaging, specifically gatefolds. I just received "The Saint of Lost Causes" by Justin Townes Earle from New West Records. Looking at it from the top, there is a 1/8-inch gap between the panels at the spine, while there is no gap at the other end. You can actually see how the panels are close together up to about 2 inches from the spine, where they start to slightly curve apart. With time, the record could warp to that same curve. The solution is to store the record in between the gatefolds, or to place a piece of cardboard in between the gatefolds to keep them from curving.
Great advice to avoid edge warps! Thank You.
Back in the 70s putting a penny or a half penny on the head of the needle was common, I used to do it when I was a young kid , when you are that age you don't know about quality equipment
I think the #1 myth I see/hear repeated is just that most people assume all vintage vinyl is valuable, or that their grandpa's collection of Elton John and Neil Diamond is something like an investment. Like, if it's old it must be worth something, right? Of course back when it was the main medium of music distribution millions of copies were made, making a run of the mill used copy of most most popular music worth under $5 or $10. Sure, you can still get $30 for a Beatles record in good knick, and there are a few albums here and there with value for specific reasons (Ludwig pressing of LZII for instance) but that's the exception, not the rule.
Nothing to add, just leaving a comment to thank you for the awesome content as always my friend
For most cupped or warped records I use a turntable clamp that works great at pressing the record flat against the platter.
Definitely works for some but it depends on the kind of warp. Doesn’t do much for lip warps.
@@TooManyRecords Right, but there are ring clamps, too. I would also be careful about putting weights on a bearing not designed to handle it, but spindle clamps can be useful.
Totally agree with all these points. 180 gram vinyl has been one of the biggest cons ever, like you said it's the quality of the press and not the thickness that matters. I've also got picture discs that sound decent, it helps if the music is of the heavier style in most cases too.
I like the feel of a heavy record , I've personally have had very little if any issues .
I am looking 70 years old straight in the eyes. In my younger years, I didn't care much for my records. "Revolver" and "Aja" are scratched so I got new ones of 180 grams. "Aja" sounds incredible (better than the original?) "Revolver" sounds horrible, and I'll listen to my old copy. Mastering, I think, is the key. With 180 grams, it's hit or miss...
Great tips thanks. I bought my Technics SL-QX300 Turntable new in 1985. It is Quartz Auto Direct drive with a variable pitch and can be back tracked due to the direct drive. It has always sounded great and with the TP4 cartridge design it is just plug and play with no fine tuning of the arm or cartridge at all and I bought a Audio Technica high quality new cartridge new on super sale for $10. It sounds great with my Yamaha receiver and my 1977 Pro JBL 4311 WX Control Monitor speakers I bought new in 1977 for $900 and all original in perfect condition with a 7 lb magnet on the 12" woofer. Rock and roll LPS and CDS sound awesome.
Great video Matt. I am sure you know but others may not that MOFi actually made a pink vinyl version of Beck's Sea Changes which everyone raves about. I do wonder if the audiophile companies almost exclusively use black vinyl because of the colored vinyl myth though. Vintage gear has come way up in price...i love vintage receivers and will never go new...i have listened and anything comprable to my sansui 5000x is at least $2,000. I do however want to do a modern table upgrade...either fluance or clear audio...music hall makes some grest turntables too. You are spot on about vintage gear requiring vintage repairs though.
The audiophile companies know that a well mastered record can be any color, however, I believe they do mostly black to appeal to purists/people that believe the myth.
Nice tutorial - My recent RSD of Bloodflowers on picture disc by The Cure sounds awesome !
i have that record too! still sealed from RSD
I like listening to this really worn 45 of the Jackson 5 on 33rpm and it sounds like a metal band with the pops and scratches adding ambience
The carbon added to vinyl to make it black strengthens the PVC mix and actually does have an effect on sound quality. They all start out clear, and clear records tend to sound the worst. Modern manufacturing has led to mostly minuscule differences in colored vinyl VS black but you are incorrect in your assertion that they are one in the same.
My Michell Orbe has a screw-down clamp, which sorts out any warping. One thing you don't mention is the whole not being exactly in the centre, which can lead to speed instability. You can bodge that with a small file, but getting it centred on the turntable can be tricky.
The major reason why there is so much warped used vinyl out there is improper record storage.
The correct way to store records is vertically, in a record cabinet, in spaces of about 12" max where the records are tucked in nicely, not too loose, not too tight.
So all those 'vinylafficionado's' with their record cabinets where stacks of records are sitting 'casually' under an angle....they're doing it wrong!
I've seen that also on this channel! (for instance in the video "I made a second vinyl listening room".
And flip bins are the worst.
The correct way to store records is in the garbage can. Then, go buy CDs to replace them 😂😂😂
I’m totally with you on the warped 180G records. I think I have one nasty standard weight warped record, an OG Purple Rain but it plays fine. All the other warped records I have are all 180G. So annoying.
I've had horrible luck with picture discs lmaoooo. They're used for decoration, literally all of them are horribly off center.
Totally agree with you about picture discs. We own a few picture discs and they all sound great. I'm gonna say this myth comes from when they started making them in the 50's (I think) and how those sounded as well as playing them on a suitcase player (generally anything played on those doesn't sound the greatest) . The oldest PD's we own are Bowie's Hunky Dory & Let's Dance released in 1984 & 1983 respectively. Now while we hardly spin these due to their collectible nature. They STILL sound great.
As for vintage gear, the deals are drying up but they're still there. I've found both of my kids' turntables on offerup and I see them all the time at thrift shops for no more than $20. Yes, you'll have to get a new stylus and MAYBE a belt but we're taking $8 for the belt & $20 for the common AT cartridge.
I generally think as those Vogue Picture Records from the 1946 as the beginning, I sold a few over the years, mostly Big Band etc. There are earlier examples, anti-piracy techniques, propaganda, soviet x-ray (I think those were later) cereal boxes, postcards and other novelties etc. When it comes to modern picture disc it was actually 1970 or 71 with the second "Psychedelic Underground" compilation followed by the first band to release one, Curved Air - Air Conditioning (I got one, I love the that band)
New to vinyls and new to the channel! Thanks for this!
Sorry to be this guy, but it’ll help you later: the plural of vinyl is vinyl.
@@christinec5142 thanks for being that guy lol... I am now a smarter idiot
If you are playing a warped record, ensure subsonic filtering is in place to prevent unnecessary/extreme woofer excursions.
Such excursions steal amplifier power and may also cause amplifier clipping when listening at loud levels.
Wow! The old coin on the needle thing. I hadn't heard about that since the 1960s.
I have never heard a good picture disc. Tried many of them on a pretty revealing systems all with bad results: Schitt Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Music Hall CC 2.0, Simaudio Moon LP310. I would love to learn of what pictures discs sound as good as a normal pressing.
A controversial one, but myth or fact, records can be toxic to own and to play to the listener due to off-gassing.
One detail you missed on the black vs. color vinyl dilemma: it might not make any difference for the casual listener at home, but if you plan to take out your records and DJ with them at bars and clubs color vinyl is often harder to use because you can't see the grooves clearly in the gloomy DJ booth setting, so finding the right spot to drop the needle can become quite a challenge, and when you're trying to make smooth mixes you only have a few seconds to find that spot, so yeah... black vinyl all the way.
Great video, right on the money for all these myths! I want to debunk another for lucky #7 because I've seen this myth too frequently in the community... And this one hurts me a bit.
Myth: Vinyl sounds better than digital.
It can in some cases, but it depends. Most modern pressings are sourced from the already available digital masters with additional mastering that degrades the sound in order for it to translate well on vinyl. Those are not worth playing on a turntable in my opinion, and unfortunately this trend is becoming increasingly common. The modern pressings that sound the best are the ones mastered specifically for vinyl from the mix itself by a capable mastering engineer. That gives the mastering engineer more room to work with and the potential to outshine the digital master when it translates to vinyl. It can be hard to determine which albums have a proper master because the "remastered for vinyl" labeling can be misleading as it usually doesn't specify a source, but in general aim for albums that are mastered for vinyl, or are sourced from tape.
Absolutely! This this this. I will say, transfer of a digitized signal to the analog domain of cutting-groove-stylus-amplification does have some smoothing effect on the signal, kind of like dithering a redbook CD 16bit/44.1kHz in a higher resolution digital domain. I find this has a pleasing effect on the sound compared to the digital source. I have downloaded hi-res files presumably from a master subsequently used to cut a record, and I usually prefer the smoothness of the record (hopefully the vinyl mastering engineer didn't do too much damage). Maybe I need a better DAC, but I don't think it's the limiting factor. Sometimes the vinyl does retain some of the sound of the digital master, in which case it just sounds like a slightly impure or degraded hi-res file. I think this is especially true when significant digital filtering has been done and left a lot of high-frequency content, which sounds unnatural if not bright. Some modern electronic music falls into this category, but I have no problem listening to it in a natively digital environment.
But, yes, I hate when I get a record that is well-pressed on quality vinyl, but from a crappy low-res master. What is the point of that? So annoying. It's really so sad that so many re-issues of classics are from "remastered" versions, which no doubt is digital unless otherwise stated. I have compared these to original pressings, and guess which I like more? It's so sad that this just adds more fuel to the flames of fervor for old / original pressings, when newer pressings can potentially sound even better if sourced from tapes in good shape. This just increases the price of pressings with quality masters, and lowers the standard while making it seem like people are being ridiculous for lusting and obsessing over high-price collectible records that admittedly command often-ludicrous prices. I know digital masters can sound great, but I would appreciate some transparency about the process. Whenever I see "remastered" without any additional information about how, it just makes me sad.
I've got a warped vinyl that works great, but I'm afraid it would affect the tonearm... could this happen?
I’m glad you mentioned the record weight . Many 180 gr records sound horrible
Thanks for this video dude, I just got Porter Robinson's "Nurture" as a gift from my mom and both records are warped and it constantly changes pitch on track 5 so I have to look for a new copy
I would still recommend vintage gear, especially with the prices now, and its a pretty easy fix. however for turntables i9 recommend KISS, the pro-ject rpm carbon series is perfect for beginners and mid level, and maybe even mid to top experienced players. i changed a few things in mine, but now only if i go around the price of a car i would maybe get the same sound
Thanks for the information. I'm pretty new with vinyl collection. What's up with 45 RPMs vs 33s? Is it better sounding record if the pressing is 45? Thanks in advance.
45RPM sounds better, usually. Less music crammed onto one side leads to higher fidelity.
@Nicholas Exactly. Lower information density means that more information per second is able to be encoded above the noise threshold. Same idea with faster tape speeds. This is in addition to having more physical space for the grooves, as was previously mentioned.
You can upgrade the stylus on those cheap record players, but not the cartridge.
The stylus only goes so far up on those low quality carts.
@@TooManyRecords Oh definitely, but they can be slightly improved.
@Nicholas I get it. I just don't like criticizing people who buy the cheap ones because they can't afford better ones. My point was that the stylus is upgradable.
I love that more and more people are getting into vinyl, but I wish that people wouldn't pick up those cheap ass Crosley suitcase turntables. There's so many better options for entry-level turntables that won't destroy their records, and I want them to get a turntable that'll allow them to appreciate their vinyl and encourage them to build their collection rather than tossing out their Crosley and moving on to a different hobby after they find out their Crosley sucks.
Oh, boy.
I bought a Goodbye Yellow Brick Road Ltd. ed. 2 picture discs and a Sign o the Times RSD picture discs, And I don't have my system running yet until I buy the speakers . I was so enthusiastic about them.
Should I re-sell them?
Sigh!
Check Discogs to see what people have to say about those. My brother in law has the Prince pic disc like you and never has complained about the sound quality on that pressing :)
I’ve heard it’s bad to leave your record sleeves in the shrink wrap, any truth to that?
Good question. I always leave mine in the shrink wrap where possible, it never occurred to me there "could" be a downside.
There is a grain of truth to this. Back in the day, inner sleeves for higher end records sometimes had a plastic liner. This plastic was not the polyethylene that is used in modern archival sleeves, but usually pvc or some other unstable compound. Over time this plastic releases a gas that reacts with the PVC in the vinyl record, permanently damaging it and potentially causing audible degradation. Leaving the record in the shrink wrap sealed these gasses in, and makes the situation worse. For old records that were sealed and never opened, this can really ruin those records if they have those problematic inner sleeves (which were popular in the 60s especially).
That said, the shrink wrap is also usually a low-grade plastic, but shouldn't really pose any problems to modern records in modern sleeves, since there is little if any offgassing, and the record isn't right up against it anyway. I wouldn't worry about it unless you have unopened vintage records, which would probably be toast at this point anyway.
where can I find more info about myth 3 ??
Great video can congrats on your new record store 👍🏽
ok i used a coin played two records before taking the coin off would that have ruined them, i have now fixed the problem but im nervous that i might have wrecked some records
I have a Sony PS-LX2. At some point I will need to upgrade but for now it plays okay.
I have a question. I am considering the crosley c62 (the newest version). It has anti skate, a counterweight and relatively good needle I think. (The anti skate is only in de newest versions some pictures are from the older version :/ )
I am a student and on a low budget and have not very much place. I am just coming in to the hobby. But because there are some people that crosley is al bad. I wanted a second opinion🤷🏼♀️
But would you recommend it? I
I have never ever heard any not bad sound picture discs. About the coloured vinyls, your are partly right according to my experience. Coloured Vinyls sound the some as black but splatted sound worse but better then picture discs according to my experience.
I’m debating rather I should buy the audio-technica LP-60x or the 120 as my first record player.
I like that the 60x is automatic but it doesn’t have the counterweight.
Is the counterweight worth it, or would the 60x be fine for a casual listener like me?
Counterweight is 100% necessary, not just "worth it" -- it's the bare minimum to ensure proper playback.
The LP-60X has a counterweight, it’s just not adjustable. It’s a fine turntable. The Heyday at target is about the same price but isn’t automatic. The heyday has Bluetooth which is cool
@@RoastBeefSandwich Bluetooth defeats the point of listening to vinyl. It digitizes the sound. The non adjustable counterweight is a dealbreaker because the QC of those tables is spotty at best and some will cause skipping issues that you can't fix.
@@TooManyRecords I disagree that Bluetooth defeats the purpose. Bluetooth has more bandwidth than a vinyl record so provided the Bluetooth ADC is done well there should be no loss of quality. Besides, a lot of people nowadays have very good bluetooth headphones and speakers so it's silly that they have to buy wired speakers or headphones just for their turntable. I hear of very few problems with the AT-LP60X. But as I said the Heyday is basically the same price and it has a traditional adjustable counterweight but it's fully manual and bigger so there are trade-offs. I do amateur transfers of vinyl records to digital and know a little bit about this stuff, maybe just enough to be dangerous sometimes but I've owned turntables for 30 years and have been transferring records to tape or digital for at least 15 of those years.
@@RoastBeefSandwich Not to extend this debate too much, but Bluetooth just does not have the same bandwidth as a high-resolution digital signal or a high-quality analog signal. This is not really something which is contested amongst audio engineers. Even the latest Bluetooth technology is not capable of that bandwidth. However, Bluetooth can sound very good. With an entry-level turntable setup, you probably aren't able to get the highest-resolution analog signal possible, so it's mostly a question of which is the limiting factor -- the Bluetooth technology or the turntable fidelity. With even a decently good system, I'm pretty sure the turntable has more information than the Bluetooth can faithfully transfer, but it doesn't mean Bluetooth can't sound good. There is also the amplifier and the speaker / headphone to consider, and since these could also be limiting factors, these are also quality bottlenecks that might render it a wash. I personally don't really get the point of a turntable with Bluetooth, convenience aside. Might as well just stream something direct to the Bluetooth device instead of going through all that hassle, at least from an audio quality perspective. Of course I won't deny the cache and cool factor of playing a record.
As for the fixed counterweight, it should be fine, really, as long as everything is working as it should. However, quality control can indeed be an issue. Moreover, over time, there may need to be some microadjustments that simply can't be made. Springs wear out, bearings wear out, things go slightly out of spec. I know multiple people who have experienced issues with their LP60 after a few years and had to upgrade simply because there were no adjustments possible or user-serviceable parts to modify.
I didn't know there are people who think colored vinyl sounds bad compared to black. I have always said picture discs sound horrible. Though I haven't purchased any in several years.
Black vinyl is harder and glossy as a result of using black carbon in the mix to create them . Coloured vinyl lacks this. There is also great variances depending on the colouring used.
With splatter or multi color vinyl there most definitely is a quality difference...not huge, but in silent parts you can hear different noise as it goes over the different colors.
I'm thinking about getting a concept. What amp and set up do you have.?
check out my room tour video from this year!
great video, made a few of these mistakes when i started with the hobby last year, but now im on the good track xD
Is a Crosley C6 a good starter? I had a suitcase one and this was the only upgrade I could afford
Much better than a suitcase but I'd rather get a Fluance RT81 or AT-LP120 over that, they're significantly better overall.
Comment 1: Crosleys are terrible. If you are in possession of such equipment please use it as target practice.
Comment 2: 180g thing - absolutely right. I have some new records which are 180g and they are a little disappointing. First thing I do with a new record before playing it is run it through the record cleaner. Removes crap left over from manufacturing process, and kills static. But still they have cracks and pops. Being thick and chunky does not make up for otherwise bad quality.
I ordered a vinyl disk made of recycled vinyl the other day and I'm worried if it sounds worse than a "virgin" one. Is that true?
Great video btw)
I have the old Abbey Road picture disc from the late 70s and it sounds horrendous. But the backside of the cover already warns you: Sound quality may not be comparable to conventional edition.
Guys if you want a good Turntable then what about a REVOX B975 or a MARANTZ TT143 turntable once you listen to them you won't want anything else.
I have a pioneer pl-570 that I got at good will for $10 and all it needed was a new stylus which set me back $25. I’ve used that for the last 4-5 years. I’m upgrading to a lp120 as I’m getting more serious about vinyl listening again.
I would be happy to take your pl-570 off your hands for a fair price.
Nice video! Keep up the good work:)
is it okay to play picture discs i always thought they shall not be played (i dont have a turntable but i do have three records)
Yes of course. They don't often have the BEST fidelity though.
@@TooManyRecords dope
Great Vinyl
Myth Debunker
I have a question ...I have a collection of albums that have been stored away in record shelves for about 10 years. they were clean when they were put there and were not touched after that. They were in their covers with inner sleeves.Can I just take them out and play them or do I need to do anything first?
They should be good to go. I'd run a carbon fibre brush (I like the Audioquest Gold on amazon, you get what you pay for, you can see it linked in my description) over each side as it spins before dropping the needle to get any surface level dust off before play.
@@TooManyRecords That was a great help to me,many thanks!
Those modern ones dont have 78RPM thats why i have a Suitcase One due to college budget
I would say (IME) that picture discs generally don't sound as good as colored vinyl. I'm sure good one's exist, but the vast majority of picture discs I have sound like crap. If I had the choice I'd 100% go with a non-picture version of a record. If picture disc is the only option, then maybe go for it.
All my 180 grams are warped. They all play perfectly
Nice idea for video. Thanks.
mr. Finglish (Bäd English Recs)
Okay cool, I was told to stay away from picture discs, that the sound wasn't great. I'm glad to hear they improved.
I did fall into the idea 180 gram etc is better sound quality. Now I won't repeat that and sound like a asshole.
Here to help!
Not necessarily a myth, but cleaning your records is a necessity. At the least a spin clean is needed, if not a vacuum based cleaner or by cavitation.
The vintage gear comments are well said--and may not go far enough. Gear gets OLD. The capacitors in vintage gear have aged and they go bad. If you're not willing or able to restore and repair vintage gear, then think it over carefully. Yes, the Harmon Kardon Citation 12 power amp is a GREAT sounding amp. BUT it was introduced in 1976! The earliest ones made will be 50 years old in 3 years!! What are the chances that the amp still meets its' specifications? Probably about ZERO. Caveat emptor.
I have the weeknd after hours vinyl with the red and gold splatters from Target and it sounds distorted. Pretty sure it's the color and the gold it.
Nope. Discogs comments for your pressing say it sounds great outside of surface noise in some quieter sections. Distortion is because of your individual copy (less likely) or an issue with your turntable or setup (more likely)
@@TooManyRecords Hate to admit I use a retro all in one record player. I have the Walmart metallica limited editions and they sound fine. Although it would be harder to hear if metal is distorted I would imagine. I also have queen greatest hits 2 and it sounds fine, so maybe it's the player, I'm not sure
That you should keep records sealed because one day it will be worth a gazillion dollars.
Records are made to be played and enjoyed.
Nobody can predict future market value. Sure there are obviously rare records. However keeping records sealed may actually cause them to warp, and gatefolds may stick together. It's a risk. A good reason not to buy 30 yr old sealed records, it might end up being expensive junk.
Open your records and play them.
I have a LP60 in the bedroom and a Technics in the living room... I bought the LP60 second. I just needed a decent cheap player to plug into some speakers. LP60 is actually okay. Sometimes (very few) it plays some records better thanmy technics lol 😂
It's true. i've had 180G records that were NOTHING special.
Not so much a myth more of a mystery. What causes clear vinyl records to go brown or 'tea stained', especially picture discs or uncut picture discs. Some say it's the PVC sleeve. Others suggest it's lack of light or even too much light. Do you have a theory on this my friend? Would love to know your take on it. Cheers, Col.
That's a good question, I'm not sure! Maybe the same reason old video game consoles brown with age.
UV and offgassing from the PVC sleeve these usually come in will degrade vinyl. If you have white vinyl furniture that has been exposed to the sun, you'll notice how it permanently yellows because of photodegradation. The reaction with the gasses from the sleeve is different, but results in a similar chemical degradation that can cause discoloration. So yes, protect from the sun and get them out of those PVC sleeves. You can get Mobile Fidelity archival sleeves that have a transparent front if you want to still see the disc while in storage. Can put that in a clear sleeve cover and you can still see the thing, just protect it from UV by getting it away from the sun, fluorescent lamps, and halide bulbs.
I didn't get an LP120 but I did get an AT LP60 to replace one of those suitcase players and the audio difference through the same speakers was immediately noticeable. Skip those suitcase players. Start with a LP60 if you can't afford a 120. Just my opinion.
LP60 is almost no different from a suitcase player, honestly. Similar hardware. If you thought that was a big jump, wait until you get a 120. The funny thing is, if you skipped the 60 and the Suitcase and started with the 120 you'd be paying almost the same amount, haha.
Fun fact, audiophiles use music to listen to their equipment. They don't really care about the music itself
I've heard this "180gr is just a buzz word" thing before - but isn't this a myth itself? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it so that when you buy a 180gr record you don't buy certainty of better sound, but you buy the potential of better sound? (of course given the grade of vinyl used is ok). Just like when you buy 45rpm you don't buy certainty of better sound, but merely the potential of better sound?
I think that it doesn’t matter as much as the mastering, if it’s virgin vinyl, and how it was cut. The same album on 180 gram and 150 gram can sound identical if all the other factors are equivalent.
I think the weight has more to do with the durability of the record than its sound.
No there is no more sound potential in a heavier record.
@Nicholas I think this is especially true for the bass response.
Question! years ago i picked up a Dual 1229 for 10 dollars at a estate sale. it looked like it was never really played. Do you think i got a good deal on that, i ask because i don't know much about Dual
You basically robbed someone with out a weapon. Growing up Dual was the top tier of turntables. If it needs any repairs make sure you find some place can trust. What ever you pay in repairs if needed you will still come out ahead. Just go get the best cartridge you can and you will be good forever.
Yes! Amazing table.
I don't even know you're talking about I'm just here for music reccs to be honest
Great advice from an audiofile of 50 years.
There is so much bs in this video I don’t even know where to start
1, not a myth. The stylus that will come with something like a Crosley or Victrola suitcase player is a sapphire stylus and is only good for about 50 hrs of use and should be replaced with a diamond stylus. Also yes, the cartridge on those can be replaced and there's even an upgrade by banpa.
2 You contradict your points in myth 1.
3 Thicker vinyl allows for deeper grooves and allows for hotter masters and the ability to load more low end into the groove without the needle jumping out. While I agree that 180gram is often used for marketing, there's still a reason for them to exist.
4 Warps cause excess wow and flutter regardless of playability and should be avoided. Most warps are caused by incorrectly storing records but you never bothered to mention this.
5 There has been no actual improvement in 'picture disk technology'. You also contradict yourself here as well.
Maybe you aren't the guy to be dispelling myths.
for da riddim
Myth(?): Vinyls have better sound quality because vinyl can contain more information than even the best digital audio files
maybe report back on how that good sounding picture disk sounds over time.
Any true audiophile will not use the term "NEEDLE"! It's a stylus. "Needles" are on cheap record players.
hey i’m curious what’s your opinion on other music formats like Cds or cassettes?
Tell me how the Crosley C200 is inferior to the ATP 120 table. The retail price point is usually 100 to 200 dollars less. BTW, it's the exact freaking table. But I'll listen....
The LP120 is a step up from the C200 with a better tonearm, plinth and a quartz lock controlled speed.
I'll give you quartz lock. Tell me which and how the tonearm is different as it appears to be the same. The plinth is the same. The Crosley doesn't muck things up with USB conversion, etc. Rule of thumb in electronics for retail....the more bells and whistles you add is where you usually where you subtract somewhere else. What are your thoughts on the Crosley C10?
@@burdturglar I think you make a good point, which is to look at the quality and the specs more than the brand. A lot of nostalgia for vintage, for example, ignores that in many instances the performance is simply poorer. Build quality might have been better in certain cases, but the actual specs and performance may not measure up. The ridiculous prices from some vintage gear is simply astounding. In this case, the Crosley models you mentioned vs the Audio Technica, they do look to be remarkably similar. The issue is that the Crosley brand has been weakened because they offer systems that are much worse than the ones you mention, for example with built-in speakers, which are universally a compromise (at best). I think these Crosleys are what they are known for, but it seems they are venturing up the food chain, which I didn't know! Thanks for sharing.
@@burdturglar By the way, looking more closely at the C200, the plinth and tonearm base simply look like a cheaper plastic to me, but I haven't seen one in person. Also, the AT120 has adjustable vertical tracking angle (VTA), which the C200 does not. Most turntables in this price range or even higher don't have VTA adjustable on the fly like this, which is significant. Some cartridges are much more sensitive than others to this. C10 looks pretty good, though. It seems Crosley realizes people are wising up and looking at better turntables, so they are having to compete. These models you mentioned look like direct competitors to the AT120 and offerings from U-Turn and the like. I am not sure if their quality control standards and build quality are comparable, would be curious to check one out.
@@cesarcaro6767 I give you props for responding at length. I'm really freaking old and have done vinyl forever. As well as turntables..
I actually deal in Crosley at the moment. I wouldn't if I didn't trust them. What I tell people on the portable speaker embedded models is they do what they're supposed to. Nothing more or less. Now, moving up to the C200 and C300, these are essentially audio technica tables. The plinth is the same. Feet, etc. They a heavy duty workhorse. I may be wet but vta is adjustable. The ATP throws in 78 rpm which is essentially a waste, plus you can dj with the table (play backwards and forward). Wtf. Who wants to rip their vinyl up like that? Lol. I know so very few people who use a USB out on their tables. Both have on board preamps. The needles are essentially the same. Audio technica also makes lower end entry level fully auto tables that feel like a paper weight....just like Crosley. In regards to the C10, you mention Uturn which I've used but not sold on as the belt runs on the outside of the platter. So easy to pull it off when changing vinyl. Solid tables but just a design I didn't like. Another table brand that is awesome is Project. A little secret....project makes the Crosley C10. Top to bottom. Carbon graphite tonearm, ortofon cartridge that you can easily upgrade to your liking, manual belt drive. Solid plinth. Crosley also sells a separate inline preamp for 60 bucks that is really nice. BTW, also made by project 😊. The OP makes some good but obvious points to old guys like me. I get a bit riled when the uppity guys and gals jump on Crosley as crap but will hail the genius of audio technica and project in the same sentence. Yes, they have a rep for just portables, but they also upped their game. BTW, their portables will beat any victrola or other similar with a one year warranty, no questions. 😊🤘 rock on
Not a myth but too any new starters, if you see a record you want, just take it. You will most likely regret waiting on it and never being able to find it again
I would add a caveat to this, depending on the record in question. If a collector just wants any old copy of, say, the white album, or something else that can be found at any record store on earth in the $20-40 range, they shouldn't overpay for the first one they see. If it's one of those records that you've been shopping for for a year and it's $25 then sure, go for it, but a bit of patience can be a good thing if you want to avoid spending $50 on every record you want, which can turn you off the hobby if it starts hitting your finances. I only say this because I have made this mistake myself, or more specifically I bought an overpriced stereo version of records that I have since realized are better in mono (mid-60s stuff), etc. just because I was so excited to see it at all.
Should actually pay for it.
@@jon4139 Mono analog is almost always better
Steal records. Got it!
Don't know if I agree with this. It really depends on how "rare" the record is. I've spent hundreds (yes hundreds, with an S) on a single record because it was so "rare" that I just knew no record company would be repressing it. Then 2 years later I'm shopping and see the "rare" record that I spent $350 on with 3 new copies at a record store for $30. I honestly don't think there are any hard rules when it comes to record buying except that you're probably going to find the record for cheaper elsewhere at some point.
You missed the biggest myth of all. "Eh, I've been looking for this record for years....I'll think about it tonight and maybe come back and grab it tomorrow...It will still be here"!!!!!!!
I’ve been burned...
@@TooManyRecords gotta pin that one!
it will if you stash it in a totally unreleated music section. Used to do this in record/cd and book stores. It was there maybe 80% of the time. I guess depends on how diligent they are on keeping order in the store.
@@josephshelton4599 so it's you ! ! !
@@djC653 Yeah, I work at two record stores now and I tend to find that quite a bit. ...and sorry to say I love being the spoiler and putting stuff back where it goes or on the wall lol.
I wonder if anyone has ever really put an ortifon red on a crosley 🤣 that sounds like a great idea for your next video 😝
How To Waste Money By Too Many Records
Can you even do that?
Is it posible?
Nothing a bit of superglue can’t do...
I have a clearaudio cart on my Vitrola
I've been collecting records for close to 30 years, and I think I've only ever had one record that was unplayable due to warping. It's just not nearly as big a deal as people make it seem.
Its just annoying
I received a record a few months ago that was so warped that it bumped the tonearm every rotation and would jump through the whole side in about 10 seconds. The band were really helpful and sent another one which was perfect. Seems like it might become more of an issue these days with more and more records being shipped in the mail.
Depends on where you are in my experience, any hotter climate (Israel, for instance) buying used vinyl is a crap shoot, especially because many warm places didn't get mass air conditioning until the 80s or 90s, so anything older has been layiing around on hot summer nights. This happened to all my dad's old records that were in the attic storage of a garage in the US south.
Right on, Frank; I agree. I bit of warping is not a big deal that's going to destroy the sound of the music.
I have been collecting records for over 50 years, some of them are from 1948 when Columbia introduced 33 1/3. I have never had a warped record that was unable to play.
Excellent video Matt! The myth about 180 gram vinyl is especially important to mention. Take care.
I agree, Melinda! Sometimes it can be great, but it's never the reason why!
I got "Revolver" 180 gram for my birthday. I've got to say that something is missing. Stay safe.
if you have a turntable that plays 78 RPM, use that for your warped records - they will sound better at warp speed ;)
If my record is repeating the same grove line i spin it at 78 or 45 if playing a 33 album and 78 if playing a 45 to kind of make the stylus move to the next line
Thicker vinyl takes longer to cure so when a pressing plant doesn't let them cure long enough they can still warp in storage.
That makes perfect sense to me.
Purchased Physical Graffiti 40th on 180g (reissue’s only weight) unopened. Side 3 is unlistenable due to snaps/crackle straight from lead in to out. Surface looks flawless. Manufactured by Warner in California but printed in the EU? Please let Plant and Page know. Overall I steer clear of 180g if there’s a choice.
Most of the warping is due to shipping during the summer months , a box truck or any type of shipping container can get excessively hot during the summer months .
@@onearmleroy2696 Heavy pops are an obvious manufacturing quality control issue that's fairly easy to see if the pressing company actually checks for quality issues. They look like little bumps , I'd complain and demand a new record or refund . I always keep my receipts .
I think the myth of colored vinyl might come from that dust and dirt sometimes is harder to see on ”colored” vinyl than it is on black.
honestly tho? i never knew “colored vinyl sounds bad” was even talked about as a popular viewpoint until now. my personal experience with colored vinyl has always been poor, probably bc of the quality of the press, and they tend to be a selling point and “aesthetic”.
i’ve personally never had a colored vinyl that has been indistinguishable from normal black wax as far as sound goes.
although i only own like 4-5 colored vinyls, they all have inferior sound to them. like the bitcrushed or distorted. wish i could find higher quality colored presses.
Vinyl is naturally clear with a yellowish tint . Black is technically colored vinyl so any color you buy doesn't effect anything . I worked in Plastic manufacturing about 25 years ago lol.
I have Demon Days by Gorillaz and they're picture disks and it sounds great
well i find old equipment far more reliable than the latest one.I got a pioneer preciver which sounds just the bees knees and despite beeing nearkly 50 years old never needed any repair
Great video! Only caveat I would add to the colored vinyl vs black vinyl myth is I have found there is still one 'color' to stay away from and that's glow in the dark vinyl. Every one of those I have sounds terrible, I'd suggest staying away from GITD pressings.
Yep! I outline that in the full video I linked to.
Well shit LMAO
Myth: Playing a record fresh out of the freezer or the oven will fix scratches, skips or loops. There is a ton of misinformation on LPs! Some will ruin your record! 😩😩😩
Myth: vinyls is a word.
The plural of vinyl is vinyl.
Just say records