I got addicted to this channel since the day I discovered it. Art literally makes me feel happy. I just wanted to thank you for making such great videos.
I was immediately impressed by how well this has been preserved over the years! That's incredible. I just finished a training on disabilities at work, so the treatment of dwarfs as special in certain societies made me think of the distinction between the medical and social model of disability that I just learned about. What some hold as a limitation needing to be fixed can be esteemed elsewhere... Still can't get behind ear flares (lol), but I dig the pectoral! Also a fan of the obsidian mosaic mirror objects. I wonder what kind of otherworldly experiences were had with them.
Besides the popular myth native americans could grow beard normaly, theres a lot of exemples from the mayan and toltec art of mexico/guatemala/honduras and from the moche and chavin statues in peru, also among pure blood natives in amazon and central america
Why return it? Put it in a museum in Guatemala where it would have an even more limited viewing and probably even less so by the indigenous people whose ancestors made the object? The Yucatan peninsula and Guatemala were heavily populated in ancient times and for a very long period. Albeit an extremely rare object, there is a plethora of artifacts from the area and more waiting to be discovered.
@@oltedders Your arguments are biased and ethnocentric. Are you saying that the children and people of Guatemala need to travel to the USA or to London to learn their own history and past? Are you saying that greek children need to travel to the British Museum to see the sculptures of the Parthenon that the english plundered from Athens? Do you know that cultural tourism is Egypt's first source of income because people from every corner of the world want to see Tutankhamun treasure and then other remains of its past? Or are you saying that great museums like the British Museum, the Louvre some german museums, a.s.o. would have a more limited viewing if they returned what they have plundered?
I have a question. With very little in terms of Maya skeletal remains, why are small depictions of people considered dwarfism and not hierarchical scale like much of the prehistorical art of ...everywhere else?
It's a good question, because in general the Maya were and continue to be fairly short in stature, with the average height of Mayan men during this time being around 5'1. We do however, have a fair amount of Maya skeletal remains thanks to the cenotes, ritual burials, sacrificial offerings and other sources. We can tell that the artwork depicts dwarfism because of the proportions of the figures. Throughout the Maya region of influence (and other mesoamerican cultures of that time and afterwards) would depict people with dwarfism very differently in terms of body proportions than they would say, a prisoner, which was depicted smaller than their captor, much in the style of the hierarchical scale you referenced. The Maya made use of hierarchical scale depiction of low status individuals like prisoners, but their bodies are more "proportionate" than the Maya depictions of dwarfism. Really interesting stuff!
Despite the deterioration to the face, he appears to have a beard and mustache! The mustache is obviously not a nose ornament as the shape is nothing like what you would expect to see. Is it possibly facial tattooing? That would certainly merit further investigation and comparison with similar depictions. The work is incredibly fine! The level of expertise is astonishing.
Maya art is reminiscent of far eastern and Indochinese art. There has to have been an exchange of ideas between the 2 civilizations. From the feathered serpent/dragon worship or reverence to Khmer architecture and irrigation techniques. I look at the chinese paper dragons used in celebration and see a Maya glyph. Indus valley civilizations as well bear resemblance
The Met knows exactly how they acquired the work. It was loaned to them by Nelson A. Rockefeller, then the Vice President of the United States and former governor of New York, until 1978 when it was given to them. Rockefeller bought it in 1962 from a prominant dealer in Maya art, John Stokes. It is entirely possible that it was removed from its find spot by looters earlier in the 20th century or perhaps at an even earlier date. It is clear that important scientific knowledge was lost forever but this was before today's legal safeguards had been adopted.
I got addicted to this channel since the day I discovered it. Art literally makes me feel happy. I just wanted to thank you for making such great videos.
This is pretty amazing! Thanks for the videos.
I was immediately impressed by how well this has been preserved over the years! That's incredible.
I just finished a training on disabilities at work, so the treatment of dwarfs as special in certain societies made me think of the distinction between the medical and social model of disability that I just learned about. What some hold as a limitation needing to be fixed can be esteemed elsewhere...
Still can't get behind ear flares (lol), but I dig the pectoral! Also a fan of the obsidian mosaic mirror objects. I wonder what kind of otherworldly experiences were had with them.
What an exquisite piece.
Wonderful! Thank you for the detailed explanation!
Great video! Thanks
Love this. I want more! More! More!.. also, what about the 'mirror-bearer's' gnarly (rad) mustache and beard?
Besides the popular myth native americans could grow beard normaly, theres a lot of exemples from the mayan and toltec art of mexico/guatemala/honduras and from the moche and chavin statues in peru, also among pure blood natives in amazon and central america
Very cool, thanks
Hope they find out where it's from and return it.
And you don't mention his facial hair???? Am i the only one who notices his handle bar moustache and lush goatee????
Maybe you should return this object to Guatemala where it came from???
Why return it? Put it in a museum in Guatemala where it would have an even more limited viewing and probably even less so by the indigenous people whose ancestors made the object? The Yucatan peninsula and Guatemala were heavily populated in ancient times and for a very long period.
Albeit an extremely rare object, there is a plethora of artifacts from the area and more waiting to be discovered.
@@oltedders Your arguments are biased and ethnocentric. Are you saying that the children and people of Guatemala need to travel to the USA or to London to learn their own history and past? Are you saying that greek children need to travel to the British Museum to see the sculptures of the Parthenon that the english plundered from Athens?
Do you know that cultural tourism is Egypt's first source of income because people from every corner of the world want to see Tutankhamun treasure and then other remains of its past?
Or are you saying that great museums like the British Museum, the Louvre some german museums, a.s.o. would have a more limited viewing if they returned what they have plundered?
I agree, it should be returned. The Met is notorious for many of their objects having origins of looting.
I have a question. With very little in terms of Maya skeletal remains, why are small depictions of people considered dwarfism and not hierarchical scale like much of the prehistorical art of ...everywhere else?
It's a good question, because in general the Maya were and continue to be fairly short in stature, with the average height of Mayan men during this time being around 5'1. We do however, have a fair amount of Maya skeletal remains thanks to the cenotes, ritual burials, sacrificial offerings and other sources. We can tell that the artwork depicts dwarfism because of the proportions of the figures. Throughout the Maya region of influence (and other mesoamerican cultures of that time and afterwards) would depict people with dwarfism very differently in terms of body proportions than they would say, a prisoner, which was depicted smaller than their captor, much in the style of the hierarchical scale you referenced. The Maya made use of hierarchical scale depiction of low status individuals like prisoners, but their bodies are more "proportionate" than the Maya depictions of dwarfism. Really interesting stuff!
Despite the deterioration to the face, he appears to have a beard and mustache! The mustache is obviously not a nose ornament as the shape is nothing like what you would expect to see. Is it possibly facial tattooing? That would certainly merit further investigation and comparison with similar depictions.
The work is incredibly fine! The level of expertise is astonishing.
Facial hair in mesoamerican art was rare but not unheard of - see the olmec statue known as "the wrestler" for another example.
@@juanjuri6127 I have also seen a column figure with an under beard. I think it was in Copan.
🙂🙂🙂🙂
Maya art is reminiscent of far eastern and Indochinese art. There has to have been an exchange of ideas between the 2 civilizations. From the feathered serpent/dragon worship or reverence to Khmer architecture and irrigation techniques. I look at the chinese paper dragons used in celebration and see a Maya glyph. Indus valley civilizations as well bear resemblance
When The Met says it doesn't know how it acquired the object, the odds are that it was stolen.
The Met knows exactly how they acquired the work. It was loaned to them by Nelson A. Rockefeller, then the Vice President of the United States and former governor of New York, until 1978 when it was given to them. Rockefeller bought it in 1962 from a prominant dealer in Maya art, John Stokes. It is entirely possible that it was removed from its find spot by looters earlier in the 20th century or perhaps at an even earlier date. It is clear that important scientific knowledge was lost forever but this was before today's legal safeguards had been adopted.
@@smarthistory-art-history I'm happy to be corrected on this. The treatment of the object's provenance in the video is a little circumspect.
@@smarthistory-art-history or it’s fake
this is often the case with works from the Met