I'll just sticky it here: 1) Apparently the progression was Wildcat > Hellcat, not Wildcat > Corsair. I guess this came from me watching movies/shows made Post-war that used scrap parts and I always saw Zeroes shooting down Wildcats and Corsairs shooting down Zeroes. Also, missed opportunity to go Wildcat > Hellcat > Tomcat. Bad, bad Zoot. 1b) I was also aware that aviation was young in 1940, hence why I leapt ahead twice to the F-35 Supersonic Stealth VTOL, whose test-type came out in 2000. Even ten years before it was rolled out, nobody thought you could combine TWO of those words, let alone all three, on a single plane. Ain't innovation something?! 2) A lot of people say "Budget" is why neither side rolled out new designs. A TIE/sf, the two-seater Poe and Finn stole, costs more than a Tie Interceptor. Like a lot more. Also, the T-85 X-wing, which is also from Resistance and actually got a nice cosmetic upgrade, costs barely more than a T-70. Like a pittance. 2b) (NEW!) Also, this is more pointing out how DISNEY offered nothing new. I don't care about in-universe technological stagnation, because that isn't present in either of the other trilogies, as this video points out. The Sequel Trilogy does not get a pass because of a Thermian Argument like that. 3) On the subject of Resistance, I specifically pointed out the Baron Interceptor because it is very clearly an evolved Tie Interceptor that DISNEY themselves created ("You see? You can do it." - Ben Kenobi). A lot of people suggested they use things like E-Wings or Tie Avengers from Legends, but that's just replacing one form of nostalgia for another. I want INNOVATION. Also the E-wing is basically "We Have X-Wing at Home" 3b) I also like the Baron Interceptor because it follows the Mecha logic of power creep, where mid-series the robot gets replaced with a new model that sports more potent weaponry to counter the growing threats, something an ACTUAL XX-Wing would probably abide by. The other trilogies displayed such evolutions, why not here? Even if we started the trilogy with X-wings and Tie Fighters, we should have some cool new stuff to admire by the end. 3c) As for LEGENDS content, I would love to see the TIE Avenger used in more Thrawn content, like how they used the Defender and E-Wing. Thrawn being canon is already fanservice, just pile on an extra scoop with Legends designs in that same space. 3d) My big focus on why the Starfighters specifically should evolve is because the most iconic (and marketable) elements of Star Wars are the Lightsabers and the Starfighters (And, to a lesser extent, their wielders) thanks to how much open role-play they allow. The fact that the sequel trilogy only gets stand-out starfighters in side content is disappointing. 4) Most of you got my point that this observation applies to the series as a whole, where nothing truly new was given the room to shine because so much was smothered by nostalgia-pandering, causing the Sequel Trilogy to feel it has a lack of identity. This was a symptom that put the vibe easily into words. Also, Finn's the best new character, screw all of you.
"we have X-Wing at home" "X-Wing at home = E-Wing" i always kinda thought that, it looks stupid af to me but it seems to be a big fan favorite. and i have given up on disney im not buying any more of their shi* im just gonna go back and re read the books :) but have a good day!
Not as weird as the logic that got the N-1 in Mandalorian with a silver paint job.... Like seriously how is the Mandalorian bounty hunter getting a mid-life crisis sports car he can't take bounties in or store food/weapons, and it is both shiny and about as old as if not older than any Y wing at the beginning of the Rebellion... At least they tried something esoteric but still.
the Corsair wasn't even used by the Navy until 1944 on US Aircraft Carriers. It was considered too dangerous for carrier operations. the RN used it however on British aircraft carriers in relatively small numbers - where the RN versions had clipped wings in order to be accommodated on Royal Navy ships. Most corsairs fought from land bases in the earlier years in the war, operated by the Marines. The navy instead used Wildcats and Hellcats on their carriers, and for most of the war - the Hellcat was the main adversary the Japanese would face over the Pacific.
You miss understand the vtol and stealth systems and why they weren’t combined earlier . We have had vtol since the mid to late 50s and In production with the harrier in the 60s which was also near supersonic capability. Along with the same stealth technology we have now in the 70s with slight improvements in coating since the 90s but we were still going against sub par aa cannons and low altitude weapon with rudimentary radar capabilities. We simply didn’t have a need for such things. The state of play was completely different. Now we long range stealth capabilities and fights happen within milliseconds from miles away . Also the wings aren’t a issue at all lore wise if they have vr built into the visor like they do in any fighter or bomber/ attack helicopter has it should show all angles based on which direction you are looking . Also about the supersonic you CANT have both if the f-35 goes supersonic the coating is gone and it needs all areas to be replaced after landing . How I know any of is any of this is all my family are AFAC graduates with slots on f-22 /f-35 / grandpa was a bomber and ATOs at AFAC
I remember thinking about this before. They just slapped an additional large gun onto the tie fighter and called it a day. Whats next, a regular old star destroyer but with an additional big gun? Oh wait...
Yeah, I think George would’ve taken the aesthetic in a unique direction given how he did the OT and prequels. OT was 70s, PT was 50s, meaning he probably would’ve made the sequels with a 2000s aesthetic in mind.
@@oldylad so, he would have given jaku an Iraq esthetic? As he was inspired by that one for the plot. Anyways, even if George says that the sequels aren't new enough, he doesn't do that either himself
Yes. Vehicle evolution (or the lack of it) was the first thing that i noticed from the first TFA trailers. I was very disappointed even before the movie came out. Such a shame. Sequels could have been something great, but Mickey chose quick buck instead… The story was not that great either and whole new trilogy felt forced. Like let’s create all these characters so we have everything covered and then somehow create story around them. The story looked to be more of a afterthought. The other thing is that it seems to me that everyone in SW universe have very short memory 😅 Talking “myth” about something that happened just 30 years ago is very funny 😂. It’s like talking about Iraq war like it happened 1000 years ago 😂🤣😂 That puzzle dagger was very bad joke as well. Why would anyone create a dagger with a silhouette of a quite recent wreck that is being consumed by ocean and storms?
It's a numbers game: developing a new toy comes at a risk of fans not liking the new design. TFA had the double task of introducing SW to a new generation while reaffirming the old one. So a paintjob forces the fans to buy a new tie fighter without risking anything at all.
People like to point out that the reason the First Order didn’t have anything new was because they were a small remnant of the Empire that lacks resources and manpower. There’s just one small issue with that argument. *STARKILLER BASE.*
I guess you could compare it to how modern Russia mostly uses upgraded Soviet-era stuff but still has its cutting-edge unstoppable nuclear torpedo things. It's not a great comparison, I will admit, just playing devil's advocate.
@@drewrussell8531 modern Russia's cutting edge unstoppable superweapons are mostly vaporware or heavily over-hyped by propaganda or they have a grand total of 5 and no real manufacturing capability to make more (or spare parts) at any useful speed for a conflict. Their real "teeth" are the upgraded Soviet designs and the deep soviet-era storage of ammo and other stuff they can't easily re-maunfacture now. In a "believable" star wars Universe the First Order would be mostly using old imperial tech with incremental upgrades, and the Starkiller Base would be mostly vaporware
The irony of the last phrase being ''their only innovation, was black paint'' with a clip of Finn, probably the most exciting addition in the first sequel movie that then got made generic and undermined. The idea of an actual stormtrooper you can relate to was wild, but we cant have nice things
They kneecapped his character in the first movie by revealing halfway through that he was literally just a janitor. Why the fuck was a janitor going on kill squad missions?
i think when George Lucas said that he thought the sequels didn't innovate enough, maybe this is what they were on about. the first 6 movies where based off of older movies and media which allowed them to shape into what they became. the sequels on the other hand were just based on star wars.
this exactly, it applies to the alien designs to. you can look back to scenes like maz's castle and the casino, the artists were to busy trying to make their designs fit into the cantina from ep4 they forgot to see if their designs fit into the new settings they made for their movies. this resulted in the aliens looking mostly brown and grey, barley any color variation or cool features that ale them stand out.
@@EatYourToastSon so is this why the prequels have stale characterisation and writing? Because Lucas used old scripts that he write in the 70s to make them?
The funny thing is that they actually succeeded in creating a sequel ship design that learned from its predecessors: the Resurgence-class star destroyer. It learned from the lack of starfighter support by including an enormous hangar deck cutting through the middle of the ship, and it removed the exposed command bridge on the top that we see get destroyed multiple times in the original trilogy. I think the only reason they gave star destroyers the quality redesign it deserved was because most people only recognize the star destroyers by the dorito shape.
There is also a physical reason why the ship change so drastically: When dealing with physical models on film it really helps if they have drastically different silhouettes. This is why the U-wing and TIE Striker from Rogue One are so great, because you can tell immediately that those are new
It's even worse with Bombers. We went from fire and forget, target locking, Ion Torpedos with the Prequal Y-Wings/Original Trilogy ships, to Gravity dropped, slow ass, bombs from The Last Jedi's slow Bombers that have to fly above their target in the most dangerous and exposed way possible.
The problem is as soon as you try to come up with ways to fix it you immediately run into problems with how poorly conceptualised *everything* in the sequels is. Like, what should the First Order look like? Well that depends, are we dealing with the fringe political movement First Order or the Empire 2.0 First Order or the "wipe out every planet with a fleet of Death Star Star Destroyers" First Order? Disney has no idea what these factions really are besides "legally distinct Empire" or "legally distinct Rebels" so what chance did they ever have to create a roster of interesting, thematic and well thought out vehicles?
@@gowzahrYeah, but then George gets a cut. Can't have that. Not like you're the most profitable filmmaking company on the planet, with so much pull you can force theaters to give you a bigger cut than any of your competition when they show your movies.
@@emberfist8347 The whole point of the ST was to "burn/bury the past, and then pee on its ashes"....... by directly copying it, except worse in every possible way. A comically accurate cross section of modern hollywood; wanting replace the past with their own thing, but utterly incapable of making anything new.
@@freelancerthe2561Well, in the words of JRR Tolkien- "the Shadow that bred [the orcs] can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own." Evil corrupts what's already there, basically.
The worst part is that they do have the ability to create cool looking ships. Starfortress from TLJ for example, but they are given the most absurd functions. I understand they they were trying to portrait the painful sacrifice the space crews had to endure, but making those ships the slowest bomber in the entire history of galaxy makes the scene so laughable and hurts the overall message.
The whole scene, and its aftermath, would make more sense if it were explained that the Starfortress is a strategic _ground attack_ spacecraft, meant to drop bombs from orbit and never get anywhere near its target. It would also explain the use of bombs instead of torpedoes. Leia would have good reason to get angry at Poe, as she could reasonably believe that the bombers would be destroyed before reaching the dreadnought, wasting lives and precious assets. If I were writing the film, I'd have a scene where there's a First order base the resistance needs to attack, but they have to adjust the plan because they no longer have any strategic bombers to destroy it with.
It would've been better if they had an explanation on why the approach was so slow. Maybe the bombers are supposed to be used on much larger targets, so they had to go slow to aim properly?
It's called "creative bankruptcy". The people behind sequels are so creatively bankrupt and morally corrupt they would rather steal fan designs instead of coming up with something themselves. Imagine having this amazing opportunity to add something new into Star Wars canon and doing absolutely nothing with it.
A scene where a veteran Empire pilot points out the First Order standard TIE is crap and insists on piloting an older but better designed TIE interceptor or defender would have been great.
"Wait, is that TIE new?" "Yes, it was delivered-" "-Not what I meant, I mean is that a new construction of the same TIE I used to fly?" "Yes! The plans were-" "-No. I am not flying one of those again. Why would you even make more of them? We don't have the numbers to make up for all the faults in that kriffing disaster of a design! Do you have any Defender or Interceptor's left?" "Those would be refurbished from Imperial service-" "-They also will mean I live through the first dogfight, so I'm taking one."
Prequel trilogy: sleek ships that are also clear precursors to technology in the OT. Original trilogy: slightly battered and worn ships, but clearly still effective depsite their age. Sequel trilogy: Uhhh, how many buckets of black paint do we have?
@@LifeofSquidMannit was the 50s aesthetic, clean colorful and shiny. The OT had a 70s aesthetic, so the sequels should’ve looked like the 2000s or somewhere in between
They didn't even make them ultra-low reflectivity, like VantaBlack\etc... which would actually be useful for reducing how visible they are _in the inky black void of space._
It also raises more questions: where are The Dark Troopers? why is Phasma’s chrome armor not made of Beskar? What advancements were made to the First Order troopers compared to Stormtroopers? Why are Sith Troopers in First Order Trooper armor but painted in bright red lipstick making them an easier target? Why are they called Sith Troopers if they share little or no connection to the Sith and the Force? Why would the First Order even bother collaborating with Kylo Ren or the Knights of Ren? Why would Remnants of the Empire transfer their power from the Shadow Council and Thrawn to Snoke and Kylo Ren, the latter who have shown poor judgment and are incompetent compared to Thrawn? Why is the Galactic Republic and eventually the Resistance so incompetent? How did Lando Calrisian convince the entire galaxy to rally against Palpy in TROS? Can Lando’s rizz topple an Empire? So many mystery boxes…
@@TheCatWatches The Beskar answer I actually understand since that stuff is supposed to be rare. Also for the Sith Troopers, that was a name recycled from KOTOR (and the LEGO sets for Star Wars: The Old Republic) for the non-force using military forces of the Sith Empire.
@@emberfist8347 I also understand the forging of beskar armor is a closely guarded Mandalorian secret, so even if outsiders could get beskar, making items will be problematic.
About the Thrawn part, I imagine they will kill off Thrawn in a movie or series some years down the line, that then directly connects to Episode 7 where Snoke will divert the funds to the First Order
@@jamesbellefeuille2926 Yeah, and I still think the backstory that the Visual Dictionary came up with was cool at least: the armor is coated in chromium salvaged from Palpatine's favorite yacht (Nubian one, so would be a similar design to the ones used by Padmé in the prequels, since he's also from Naboo). Chromium is decently blaster-resistant, and is often used for starship hull plating, lightsaber and blaster coatings, and certain droids.
in some ways it's a shame Rogue One didn't get produced and released before the sequel trilogy, as it would've done the job of hitting all those nostalgia buttons folks raved about in TFA, leaving the sequels to evolve things.
and somehow it’s rogue one that brought us cool new designs that feel authentic to the series like the U Wing and the TIE strikers… it was both hitting the nostalgia buttons and evolving things and the sequels did neither.
Yeah, they're not only bad star wars movies, but even without the star wars baggage, they're just bad movies. The acting, plot, writing, duels, etc., etc. just suck The prequel trilogy are not objectively great movies (see dialogue lmao) but their acting, overarching plot, lightsaber choreography, and a lot of other things about them are actually excellent. And not only that, but they actually tie into the original trilogy and tell a side of the story we're actually interested in hearing instead of "the original trilogy again but with Rey the Mary Sue"
@@MaydupNem well heres something, I would say the vast majority of characters from the prequels are actually well liked. Sure youve got kid Anakin and Jar Jar, but youve also got Mace Windu, Qui Gon, Count Duku, Darth Maul. Is there any character in the sequels that can come close to how well liked those prequel characters are?
VII released nearly a decade ago now, confronted with people saying that kids who were in the theater will always love it I laugh in their face and tell them I was one of those kids.
Having played Squadrons in VR, the biggest visibility issue in the TIE isn't the wings. It's the window. The FOV is so narrow you can't even _see_ the wings.
The Wildcat wasn't replaced by the Corsair, but the Hellcat. While the Navy did use both, the Corsair had a number of issues that kept it from landing on carriers for much of the war. Instead, it was mosty operated from airbases by Marine pilots, while the Navy would go on to use the Hellcat as their primary fighter.
Here’s how I’d do it: -The first order has two factions, one are just Imperial cosplayers led by Hux and the others are just oppertunists (Snoke, Kylo, etc). The former use reworked imperial designs and the latter use more advanced fighters. -The Resistance is basically working with whatever leftover trash the New Republic didn’t want, which can include some nee ships but also a ton of old ones. -The New Republic uses slightly more advanced but limited fighters because of their demilitarization. (Like how we have the E-Wings in Ahsoka). Then in episode 9: Hux stages a mutiny, not to destroy the first order, but to take it over himself. Instead of planet destroying weapons, have Palpatine’s fleet just be comparatively super capable and advanced and show his power by having him wipe out Hux’s forces with ease.
Bringing back Palpatine at all was a bad idea. If you want to see Ian McDiarmid again, I'd have Kylo stumble upon an old recording that was clearly intended for Vader, giving the location of the secret Sith world or something
To play devil's advocate, while I agree it's dumb the First Order goes back to using fighters based on the original TIE Fighter, with its obvious deign flaws, instead of something based on the later and far superior TIEs, I can't really fault the Resistance for using upgraded X-Wings (they aren't the same X-Wings we saw in the original trilogy but an upgraded model with some visual differences like differently shaped engines). Unlike the TIE Fighter, the X-Wing doesn't really have any obvious design flaws and it was the main starfigher of the Rebellion, so it does make sense for the New Republic to use an improve version of a proven design their pilots would already have been familiar with instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. A comparison between 1940s fighter planes and 1970s fighter planes doesn't really work in this context because there was a massive leap in technological development between them with the development of the jet engine. Meanwhile starfighters in Star Wars are a proven technology that hasn't really seen any revolutionary innovations in centuries, so any improvements in design would be iterative: a more powerful engine, a better hyperdrive, improved weapons, etc. A difference between 1970s fighter and modern fighters would be a more valid comparison, and modern fighter jets still have the same basic look as 70s jet fighters. They're not identical, but it's clear that one is an evolution of the other. Now if you excuse me, I'll have to go scrub myself clean. Defending some aspect of the sequel trilogy makes me feel dirty.
I have pointed that out as well. The difference between an F-18 Hornet and a F/A-18E/F Super Hornet is pretty subtle. F-16's are still flying with avionics upgrades but the same external frame that is over 40 years old. The B-52 is crewed by people who could be the grandkids of the first generation who flew them! The thing I think could sell that though in Star Wars, could be at showing that more advanced new ships were made but had limited production runs due to say cost (like our modern F-22 and F-35). Oddly enough the TV series have supported this, not the movies. Ahsoka introduced the E-Wing, and Resistance the T-85. Even the Galaxy's Edge theme park has the exclusive TIE Echelon as a new "TIE" family vehicle. All they need to say is "E-Wings are expensive" and it cements them as the F-22 of Star Wars... I don't know if it is good for Star Wars to answer these questions in secondary media, but I do appreciate at least we are seeing some of these alternate ships in external media. To be fair though, the old EU Legends continuity spoiled us with new ships. But it was comics, video games, TTRPG books, etc. that introduced the ships; not too dissimilar from the TV series and theme parks now. We just had the benefit of an equally diverse roster of new ships in the Prequels at the same time as well! The only multi-media project outside the TV series now that is regularly introducing new ships I guess are the High Republic books and comics, but those are so isolated from the rest of the timeline they need their own style like KOTOR and the Legacy comic had in the old EU.
Besides all of that, the Resistance were not taken seriously by the New Republic Senate and only ever managed to get old, outdated ships through backroom deals. The Resistance had T-70 X-Wings, whilst the New Republic’s Peacekeeping Forces used the T-85 primarily. Even the New Republic as a whole failed to innovate because their first Chancellor was a short sighted pacifist who scrapped 95% of the Rebellion’s Navy immediately following the war. They subsequently became complacent and never took the threat the First Order posed seriously until their capital was obliterated.
Another reason the resistance used X-wings was that they didn't actually have the full support of the New Republic if I'm remembering right. So they mostly had to do with outdated equipment that might have gotten some refurbishment when they got 'em.
@@TheLordofDarkness1995 that is actually something canon does have to reconcile eventually. Compare Mon Mothma in Andor, the cloak & dagger person who would willingly let her daughter enter an unhappy arrainged marriage to maintain the secrecy of her own rebel activities (funding people like Luthen and via proxy Saw Gerrera) doesn't really mesh with the Mon Mothma of the Aftermath books who went "lol, scrap the navy." It's a fault of any multimedia project with multiple writers involved, but I hope they eventually reconcile that discrepancy. 🤷♂️ IDK where and how Mon's pacifist streak will start, but it could at least make an interesting story. We know Mothma and Gerrera have a falling out over Mon's repulsion over Saw's violence. But that doesn't seem to be enough of a tipping point for her to scrap the entire navy after the war is over. Especially if Thrawn returns as the TV shows have set up, it only would make scrapping the navy seem even more short-sighted.
@@jacoblyman9441, It's stupid... It's just post-hoc rationalization why the writers of the ST redid the Evil Galactic Empire vs Hopelessly Outnumbered Rebel Alliance. This post-hoc rationalization was required since the writers of the ST never bothered figuring out how the Galaxy of Episode VI turned into the Galaxy of Episode VII. Then presented us with The First Order and their system destroying super-weapon being assaulted by the Resistance... which doesn't even have the manpower/vehicles to be even a _task group_ and yet are expected to go up against an entire freaking navy which is capable of building a super-weapon with brand new technologies which took at least the equivalent of _ONE_ Death Star's worth of material to make. There is plot armour and then there is just plot contrivances... the ST existed entirely _ON_ plot contrivances... and the writers whose job it is to fill in the gaps had an impossible task.
Someone finally put it into words. I take particular issue with the Y-Wings in the ST, because they're _not_ there in VII or VIII, but then IX was written for fanservice, and fans had been bitching about the lack of Y-Wings in VIII, so they put Y-Wings back in, even though it's a consistent pattern in the OT movies that whenever they use Y-Wings, the Y-Wings suck and the smaller ships have to do their job for them. And Legends did this too. They tried introducing the E-Wing early on, and they never really caught on. The New Republic/Galactic Alliance quickly reverts to using upgraded X-Wing variants. And then they take a step _backwards,_ and say that they gradually phased out the A-Wing because it was unreliable and the B-Wing because nobody except the Mon Calamari could fly the things, so it really does mostly become X-Wings only. The Imperial Remnant are a bit better about it, introducing a bajillion TIE variants, but the evolution of technology mostly stops at "What's the most familiar and iconic thing from the movies? Yeah that." They do have _somewhat_ more of an excuse though, since a lot of the EU was written pre-Prequels.
Yeah I was expect TIE Interceptors and B-Wings on account of them being the replacements for the TIE Fighter and Y-Wing. The lack of Y-Wings came from people complaining about the Resistance being so downgraded they lacked anything but X-Wings VII and had the stupid bombers in VIII which made no sense.
Eh, E and B-wings didn't work out in Legends for a thing that happens in the real world too: cost. For example, the F-22 is a great plane, but it's way too expensive to maintain so they scrapped it. The F-35 is similarly super freaking expensive. It's like how they've tried to replace the AR-15 a bunch of times and then scrapped it every time.
Personally I was complaining about the lack of B and A wings, but yea. X wings sticking around in some new form is pretty standard for star wars, they're basically the F-16 of the expanded universe. Best at nothing but pretty good at everything, and nimble enough. Leaves flexibility for the more specific roles.
@@Aerowind The F-35 is actually cheaper per unit now than a lot of older jets, notably including the F-14. And the M4/16 (as well as the M249) started being phased out in favor of the XM7 and XM250 back in March.
The transition from WW1 to WW2 is even more prominent: their prototype "handheld machine gun with pistol ammo" had already become the Tommy gun and further changed to the M1; tanks went from armoured vehicles to having light artillery on top; and aeroplanes went from being unarmed and telling artillery where to shoot to having bombers and dogfights just in WW1 alone.
My favourite thing about the sequel X wings are the engines. Notice the small blades in them? In the original, those were meant to be turbine blades (or modelled off that anyways.) You know what turbines do? Spin. Now disney cut them in half and somehow they still work? And the turbine blades are still there, just in a completely non-functional state
They never spun in the original designs. ...Also there's no reason for them to spin anyway, because X-Wings are SPACESHIPS. They are maneuvering in vacuum. There's nothing to intake. X-Wing engines are shaped like jet engines because it's a neat and distinctive shape. And it evokes the appearance of real-world technology, making X-Wings feel somewhat familiar to audiences despite being completely fantastical in their design and technology. Which places them in contrast with TIE Fighters, which are far more alien and foreign-feeling in their design, being a collection of geometric shapes that resembles no Earthly vehicle. Encouraging the audience to root for the people in the familiar-feeling fighter craft, over their unfamiliar enemies.
The complete lack of ship evolution is why i love the channel EC Henry. God are his ships so cool, thematic, and feel so damn good. I LOVE ship design, the entire sequel trilogy gave us NOTHING to work with.
tbf they do technically play entirely different roles lol. the V-19 is more of the grand daddy to EVERY starfighter in so much as it was the first and last multirole fighter the republic would ever field. the Headhunter, then V-wing replacing them in the fighter role, the Arc-170 acting as the first "heavy fighter"/recon bomber, and the Y-wing acting as the Republic's golden child strategic bomber throughout the war. the wing pattern on the V-19 also works a bit differently than on the B-wing, and the V-19 serves primarily as a compact "carrier based" fighter which can quickly fold and unfold on the runway, where the B-wings were really more meant to launch from a stationary platform and join the fray from long range (as a long range bomber). so visually they look similar, but practically not even remotely
@@emberfist8347 most ships in Star Wars are variable geometry my guy. The way in which the ships move and compact though are different, weapons are different, cockpit is different, they function different, and entirely different form factors, etc. the idea that the torrent inspired the b-wing is a jump at best And no, the b-wing isn’t “carrier capable”. At least not in the traditional sense. It’s like saying an irl B-25 is carrier capable. Yes, it’s possible, and has even been done. But it’s not practical for most applications and most often isn’t how they’re used. The only purpose built carrier crafts in the rebel line up are really just the A-wings. All other crafts are long range and most often launched from the ground to their target from hyperspace. Though most of their capital ships do have a detachment of X-wings on board in the early years, it’s not really how they were used by the battle of Endor.
@@uncivilized_caveman No all Rebel starfighters are designed for service aboard carriers. The B-Wing is more comparable to the A-1 Skyraider evolving from the SBD Dauntless and TBD Devastator.
@@emberfist8347 literally none of them are. An argument could be made for the Y-wing which was carrier based in the clone wars (but still way smaller than a B-wing), but even that is most often ground deployed, not fleet deployed.
It's even worse when you realize how many unique and interesting post-Empire ship designs exist in Legends. They had an entire pool of ships to use or take inspiration from, but they stuck with rehashed OG trilogy ships. We could have had E-wings and K-wings flying against Chiss Clawcraft Ties. In fact, we could say the same thing about the plot of the sequels too. We could have had a story about extragalactic invaders, or fighting the Imperial Remnant in the Unknown Regions. But instead we just got a rehashed OG trilogy.
the thing is, Disney does not fully own everything that is now legends star wars, so they would have to give money to people to use their designs or stories, and Disney is allergic to paying people.
It is even weirder when you realize they were capable of innovating and selling new toys. Look at bb-8. He is an astromech droid like R2, but he is obviously a newer model. I think bb-8 has done extremely well on the merch side. I had several bb-8 toys myself. Obviously they can design new tech.
I still couldn’t get past his issue he would have with stars compared to R2 who we saw could use stairs. I expected more modern Astromeches would be slimmer, but still keep the same basic shape.
bb-8 is such bs low effort design that ignores what that robot is actually for in-universe. Yeah let's take a R2 head and stick it on a rolling ball. Done. Nobody cared to think why a ball is bad for an astromech, it can't do stairs and it's much more complicated to use magnetic plates to "walk" on the ship's hull to do repairs (which is kind of its job)
Honestly I'd argue that the real reason TLJ failed to leap the series forward was that 1.) it was arguably still interested in courting the old imagery and ideas, and 2.) every single time it introduced a new kind of vehicle not seen before, it's ALWAYS shown to suck and ends up losing to the old nostalgia bait stuff (Honestly this dicotemy embodies my feelings on TLJ as a whole but I'm not interested in any discoursing that stupid movie ever again so I'll leave it at this)
That Paige Tico-driven bomber ship that everyone was “oooh it’s based on a ww2 bomber plane, George Lucas would do that!” was one of the most forgotten ships in a battle, mostly because of how ugly it was, how junky it was, the gravity thing, and as much as it being redundant since Y-wings already existed. I feel like Shin Hati’s plane-ship got more praise than that thing ever did
Insane that TLJ is what you have an issue with when it comes to this topic. Despite it being the only one of the movies to actually hold and overall original theme and idea. Kylo deciding that he doesn't want to serve the Jedi or Sith, Light or Dark and would rather burn it all away was far more original than what...? Lost child on desert planet gets the chance to escape using an old dusty smugglers ship that's seen as garbage, only to join a rag tag group to destroy planet killing battles station.
@@DioBrandoZaWarudoMudaMudaMuda Insane that TLJ is what you defend when it comes to this topic, eh? All that movie was doing was "burning the past," as it called it. Yoda's message says it clearest: "We are what they grow beyond." It wasn't really doing the part where it moves forward at all, just, well... trying to set the stage for something else after it to move forward. That's why the last scene was some random nameless kid looking out towards the future. Destroy the past like TLJ, revere the past like TFA, how can you truly say one is more original than the other when neither is actually creating anything? No wonder TROS was a mess that had no idea where to go with its story, it was the third movie in a trilogy, and yet all it got from the last movie was just "make something new." Can't believe it took us two whole movies to get to where our Episode VII should have started in the first place, y'know, a new story that grows beyond the 6 movies we got before.
5:31 the f 15 eagle entered service in 1974. FIFTY YEARS LATER, the us revealed the F 15 EX. its a radically different airframe, redesigned from the ground up. but it looks exactly the same. sometimes a successful design doesnt need to be replaced
Just talking about the starfighters, they could have taken inspiration from Legends, using the E-Wing for the Resistance and the TIE Avenger for the First Order. They're familiar enough to be recognized as evolutions of the X-Wing and TIE fighter. For the Avenger, you can even see the design similarities with Vader's X1 from ANH. To see an entire fighter wing of Darth Vaders would scare anyone.
I disagree. The Avenger would make more sense in a Thrawn-themed work, maybe, like how they used the Defender. I said the Baron Interceptor specifically because it's something NEW.
Imagine how much cooler seeing X-wings and tie fighters in Rogue One would’ve been (as cool as it was) if we hadn’t already seen them in Force Awakens. They’d already planned to have Rogue One capitalize on nostalgia. There was no reason to do it so heavily with the sequels. Surely they knew they could only ride that train for so long.
I'm not going to give the Last Jedi any credit for moving the needle forward. This is the same movie that features "new" AT-AT and AT-ST walkers that look almost exactly like old AT-AT and AT-ST walkers but black. And that's on top of that movie making multiple scenes that are almost canon copies of better scenes in the Original Trilogy (Hoth and The Emperor's Throne Room).
I always was bugged by the TIE Interceptor not being standard in the ST. It was always the Empire’s plan so I expected something. Or maybe at least have them switch to non-TIE craft to show their irregular nature as they aren’t supplied by the Empire.
In Legends, the Empire used Clone Wars Wars era ships in its early years (Venator SD, V-Wing, Arc-170) but moved away due to the regime change and to focus on quality over quantity. Also used non-TIE Starfighters but in very limited use like Thrawn Missile Boat.
@@youwayo The actually issue was quantity over quality as the TIE Fighter was an example of that. Also I know all this. I’ve been a lifelong Star Wars fan. My suggestion of using non-TIE Starfighters for the First Order was also inspired by Legends ships such as the Howlrunner from Dark Empire and the Preybird from Hand of Thrawn.
The ships were half assed like everything in the sequels. The worst part about that is they actually bring up the manufacturing aspect in the last Jedi but don’t actually show anything new that they’re trying to sell
because the f-16 is good, and doesnt have two large hexagons on either side. additionally, the resistance still hasn't innovated as the US military obviously has, especially with the B2, F-22, and F-35.
It bothers me the only "innovation" were those sad parodies of B-17. Like if you want ship with turrets, you already have Millenium Falcon, which is by itself a mass produced ship, that did proved itself in combat. Modifying the type or similar Correlian ship to a bomber would have been both logical and satisfying.
Yeah but B-2 and F-22 are very limited in numbers due to the end of the Cold War and the F-35 is started to get up in numbers but the Navy hasn’t procured that many preferring the Superhornet which could’ve lost to a F-14 derivative if money wasn’t as much of a concern.
This is mildly funny to think about considering every other type of ship, weapon, and vehicle had updated in some form or another over those 30 years but the key things that determined multiple battles and was known as a major aspect of the war by some like thrawn with him and his tie Defender program was what never updated at all. Imagine loosing a war mostly due to the enemy having better planes and your lesson learned was to just make better tanks, ships, and infantry equipment. Or as the rebels imagine winning a war with said planes and then never innovating to keep that edge.
The sequels as a whole felt like they had no real continuity with the original trilogy, and the technology is only one instance of that. Another thing that frustrated me is how the First Order basically spontaneously generated from nothing. One day the Empire falls and the galaxy is in chaos, then emo boy has a tantrum and somehow now there's another Empire with lots of ships, soldiers, and a giant superweapon 10 times bigger than the Death Star. I guess some of it was created from the remains of the Empire, but that's a half-baked explanation. How did emo boy and Snoke unify these fragments of the Empire and lead them? What do they have to offer to their subjects? Where did the giant superweapon come from? The original Empire answered all of these questions. It was created from the remains of the Republic, the emperor himself was a politician in that Republic who rose to power from it, and he was a competent emperor who was actually liked and supported by a lot of the people they ruled. And he was planning the construction of the Death Star before the Republic even fell. But there is no meaningful context for the sequels. It is just nostalgia vomit. Even if they can elaborate on it and explain some of these things in spin-off stories and lore, it does not feel logical.
ive been working on a sequel rewrite in my rewrite the first order has such a huge military and its a mystery how they got it and later it's revealed that the first order has been travelling to another galaxy that is in a state of chaos and basically promising species that live there to save their home if they fight for them
Yup, this is a great representation of everything that was wrong with the sequels. Vehicle designs are always changing as the environment changes. There is no perfect design only tradeoffs, and not all tradeoffs work in every scenario. So your designs have to change and adapt based on how the environment changes and adapts. That doesn't mean we can't still see older designs still in service, but they are likely to be few and far between, or reserved for specific scenarios where their design is simply better. As the war goes on and the tactics change to take advantage of the tradeoffs from each side's design, you will always have an evolution of design to counter those tactics.
Hey, don’t diss the new tie fighter so hard! They added a second seat to it, so their air crew can suffer double the casualties for half the airframe losses.
If it's anything like the Rogue Squadron games, they should have little 3D radars to know enemies are on the side. THEN AGAIN if they use stealth like the Normandy you'd need visuals to know they're there. But if Disney didn't care to think about internal consistency then neither will I.
Most ships in SW had too high of a power requirement to utilize stealth generators. It wasn't until the New Jedi Order era that they compacted them enough to fit in X-wings.
2:00 - better example, the F4F Wildcat was replaced by the F6F Hellcat. It ties in better with the F-14 Tomcat example, all built by Incom Corp - I mean Grumman.
It's funny, because (visually) small, iterative improvements between the F4F, F6F, and the F8F Bearcat echo pretty closely with the iterations of the T-65, T-70, and T-85 X-wings. Especially given Star Wars is very much going for a 'WWII in space' aesthetic...
I personally think that the Resurgent-class Star Destroyer gets a pass in this situation. It improves on previous destroyers by making the bridge less exposed while the enclosed hangar at the front is a callback to the Venator. When it comes to the Resistance, I've seen it pointed out before that it was mainly using outdated ships donated by various planetary defence forces. This somewhat justifies there being little innovation from the OT designs, but in that case the ships should be much less uniform and sleek.
Yeah the Resurgent is fine (if a bit over-the-top considering the resources the First Order should have), but then the Xyston-class is *literally* just the ISD model scaled up by 50% and with an added paint stripe and superlaser.
In a meta-contextual sense, the reason there's no forward-thinking technology design is because Disney is in fact itself, longing to return to a mythologized history of the Star Wars franchise. It bleeds into every single aspect of the Sequel trilogy.
Yes. Finally someone said this. I honestly would enjoy the sequels MUCH more if they had NEW tech, vehicles, armies and all that instead of just repainted original trilogy stuff
@@AmandaLeeHarrington Exactly. The sequals just straight up re-used everything, especially the plot. We wanted 5 star michelin dining, we got yesterdays re-heated takeaway.
Really great editing on this! Also, I like how you took an objective look at the art direction rather blaming the writing decisions as the sole fault of the entire Trilogy lol.
4:20 the E-Wing and K-Wing from BFC were some of the very best Original EU craft. I know other authors kept developing new X-Wing variants for the main characters, but the E and K became the new gold standard of the New Republic Defense Fleet, relegating Y-Wings and Rebellion-Era X-Wings to local sector defense craft.
The sequels have a LOT of problems, but this is certainly one big issue. I'm also of the camp that vehicles (and troopers) introduced in the spinoff movies (TIE Striker, TIE Brute (TIE-RB), U-Wing, the TX-225 GAVw Imperial Tank, the AT-DT, the Shoretroopers, Imperial Patrol Trooper, the Range Trooper (the ones with the magnetic boots who attack Solo and the gang on the train), etc...) were great and should have been items of the Sequel era rather than injected in the middle of Prequels and OT. Aside from all that, though; there's just a LOT of convoluted crap in the sequels, poor writing, mistreatment/management of 'legacy' characters, no real motivations for anything anyone's doing, "WTF?" moments ("Somehow Palpatine returned..." and "I'm the spy!"). Not to mention everything looks TOO futuristic and shiny; exceedingly few things have that Star Wars aesthetic to them in the sequels (when not piggybacking off of the existing material; like the X-Wings, and Resistance trooper helmets that just look like repurposed Y-Wing pilot helmets). Take the AT-M6 (ew, that name...). It's just "AT-AT, but bigger, and monke." Not to mention that it doesn't even perform its function as a proclaimed "Artillery walker" (per the gigantic cannon on its back/shoulders), sitting right up on the front line alongside standard AT-ATs at the battle of Crait, but its Big Boy™cannon seems to only REALLY have the same firepower as any other walker blaster. Allegedly that big cannon is capable of piercing planetary shields and breaking installments, but it barely makes a dent in the dirt/salt like any other blaster during the barrage they do against Luke('s fake AI image). And then there's the Resistance bomber.... oh god that bomber. Good design, aesthetically, horrible function and execution.
In my eyes AT-M6 was clearly meant to be the original thing to blast that huge gate. Until somebody noticed, that for dramturgical reasons or so, they needed something different, but the AT-M6 was still kept. The really not Star Wars walker ist that weir grabby war of the world like thing we shortly see in the background during Rise of Skywalker.
I honestly don’t like the Patrol Troopers. They feel like poor man’s Scout Troopers that don’t need to exist since Regular Scout Troopers, an intermediate between the Prequel Clone Scout Trooper Armor and the Original Scout Troopers or Imperial Army Troopers, or CorSec would have been better choices.
@@TheWampamI would take the AT-M6 over *towed artillery* speaking of the AT-HH is more non-Star Wars looks like it stepped out of StarCraft or Warhammer 40k.
Guess if you consider that the message of the sequels is, as Churchill said, "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it", then it makes sense that nothing changed. Still, would have been nice to see some new vehicles.
The resistance X-wings are not supposed to be cutting edge. They are a design that was developed shortly after Return of the Jedi, that the New Republic had phased out. The Resistance was using obsolete technology because that’s what they could get their hands on.
And yet an Imperial splinter can be better equipped. If the Resistance was armed by the New Republic why do they need hand me downs? And why not E-Wings which were also made shortly after Endor?
That's just a post-hoc explanation for why we got what was in the movies. Disney didn't HAVE to make it that way-- they made it that way to justify their decision to mirror the original trilogy, even though doing so made the series less imaginative and fun.
Oh I was very aware of this. After I saw TFA for the first time, I was completely underwhelmed and bored. It was a movie clearly built around brand recognition, rather than any attempt to tell a compelling, well thought out story. I went to the film to see new and exciting things, and what I got instead was my father's old toy box, hauled out of the closet. I have the same complaints with my true SF love, Star Trek. Modern Trek is either wildly departing from the themes and stories which made it popular to begin with, to the point of it not even feeling like Star Trek--or else they're dragging out the same old toy box with Kirk and Spock for the umpteenth time, cashing in on lazy nostalgia bait. I'm getting more excitement and enjoyment out of Chinese-made science fiction, these days, rather than with the American classics.
- "they had 30 years and their only innovation was black paint" Instantly show a scene with Finn; Ends video; I know it was wrong, but I buffed a little
Its not even like the tie interseptor isnt just as recognisable. If they're going for the energy of that 14 year old who thinks the tiger was the best tank ever made, they could have gone for the empires tiger, instead they used the empires Stug III
That's the least of the Sequel's issues. Technically they may simply have added a Helmet Mounted Display that provides a 360° see through capability, along the better tech... Disney wanted the "classic" to appeal to the fans, while corrupting the story, the canon and nearly every established law. 😢
They could have shown that in a brief scene how advanced the new TIE Fighters. Apparently even the basic First Order TIEs have hyperdrives. They could've had a scene where the Falcon escapes into another system and think they lost the squad, but now suddenly the TIEs too follow them from hyperspace. Also, there'd been another scene where the Falcon is attempting to exploit the obvious blind spot from the sides or back, but suddenly the TIE Fighter is able to shoot to the back, because the cockpit has a 360° holographic view of the outside and a rear gunner in the back. It'd be even more impressive for the obsolete Falcon to take this "meagre" TIE Fighter down.
When you think about the symbolism of the new 1stOrder TIE, you realize they can't have salvaged old models and repainted them, because theirs includes a rear facing second occupant (gunner), making the whole thing maybe 2.5x the size--and going with your symbolism, they are now lacking vision and having blindspots BOTH for where they are going, but also for where they have been. (And a 'much larger mistake all around.') 😮😂😅
There’s actually two versions of the First Order TIE - one that’s an exact copy of the Imperial one (repainted and supposedly with performance improvements) and the so-called “special forces” TIE which is the one with a rear gunner.
Oh boy, time to throw in on the TLJ discourse again! The "TLJ tried to move forward" argument always fell flat to me because even in that same film, nothing really changes. Kylo adopts the title of Supreme Leader instantly, so the First Order is still here. Rey took the old Jedi texts with her, so the Jedi are still here. Everything is the same as it ever was. It's just such a weird film - "Let the past die" but the past survives, "failure is the greatest teacher" But Rey never learns anything from failure so that's inconsistent. I'm honestly not sure the Last Jedi even knew what it wanted to say itself.
@Tobol5 I go back and forth on that. On the one hand, he's the obvious antagonist we're probably not supposed to agree with. On the other, everything else in and around the film seems to imply that's the correct takeaway. DJ the Splicer makes his argument for why we shouldn't support the mythologized past of the Republic. Yoda blows up the book tree because he says the ancient texts (that I assume he didn't know were removed, but that's anyone's guess) are less important than learning from experience. The director himself said he set out from the beginning to make TLJ controversial and forward thinking. So the movie seems to want us to agree that the past should die, but also...doesn't?
@@IndeedYaBoi I agree. The film is immensely schizophrenic on what it's message and theme is supposed to be (probably because Rian was interested only in making a film that would generate controversy). To further add to this, the entire film is also nothing but call backs and references to other films too. Snoke's Throne room (Episode 6) Crait (Episode 5, fuck they literally included the "Salt" line to draw attention) Canto Bite (Cloud City plus Jabba's palace) Even the slow speed chase is basically the ending of 5 in reverse. In fact, the entire film is just Episode 5 backwards mixed with Episode 6. So you have this weird situation where the film both seems to hate and love the previous films. And just as you pointed out, were apparently not supposed to take Kylo or Luke's view as right, but Rey and the others never really prove them wrong in the film. If I had to be generous, I'm assuming the message was not to blindly cling to the past to the expense of the future, but it's so poorly told that I honestly can't tell, especially when scenes that I can point to for the message (Meeting Luke, DJ, Yoda, etc) are clearly there not because they add to the story but to facilitate some sort of subversion, further harming the movies story telling ability.
@@IndeedYaBoi 1. Like Kylo, DJ is meant to be bad 2. Yoda's point isn't "the past is bad". You guys seriously can't think the movie would EXPLICITLY show the books being saved while triumphant music plays, while assuming the movie hates the past. Yoda's point was that apprentices are supposed to surpass their masters instead of merely living in their shadow. 3. I'm 90% he just said he wanted to subvert expectations, nothing about controversy or being "forward thinking"
I love that I just watched a whole video in which it started around black paint, went on for a while, and ended still at black paint, and I can’t complain one bit cuz I was entertained the whole time. This is peak cinema👌👌
You can see in the concept art for TFA that the designers and artists were really excited to make new ship designs and came up with tons of amazing designs, but Disney and JJ Abram’s kept reining them back to X-wings and TIE fighters. There were even attempts to push those designs as far as they could and make very altered versions of those ships that looked new and different while being similar enough that you could recognize where they evolved from, but they just kept getting pushback from the higher-ups who were more concerned about selling toys to nostalgic adults and not even to the kids that the toys should be made for. So what we ended up with was something so similar to the OT designs that most causal fans could honestly mistake them for being from the original movies, and that’s exactly what Disney wanted so they could tap into that nostalgia and earn tons of money from their new IP.
Thank you for very distinctly summarizing my biggest issue with the sequels. And I would just like to add that when you look at the movies in a wider sense, you realize that "the old thing but with a new layer of paint" is a good description of a vast majority of those movies.
No really because for example they don’t realize it should be called the T-65G or something as that is the X-Wing model name. T-70 would be the name for a completely unrelated craft.
I'll say it now, there was nothing wrong with having x-wings and tie fighters. But for the love of god introduce some new ships. Like it was literally a carbon copy, and even the new ships we did get were awful, looking at you resistance bomber. Heck didn't even have to be new, I would have taken fleet-wide adoption of tie defenders over the shitty black paint jobs.
I do like the Resurgent Star Destroyer. That is a good design. It's recognizably a Star Destroyer, but it has radically different elements with the negative space and visually shows the First Order learning from the Empire's mistakes by squishing the traditional Star Destroyer bridge structure down into the hull. The AT-M6 from The Last Jedi is a similarly fun new look for a familiar design, as it took the concept of the AT-AT and both improved on its strengths while eliminating its flaws. The AT-AT was used in the films as essentially a mobile artillery piece, and the AT-M6 carries that legacy forward by adding that deadly back-mounted gun. The big, gorilla-eque front legs are a great design element, not only acting as a way to deal with the recoil of that big-ass gun, but also strengthening the legs to avoid the issues seen at Hoth and feeding into this beastly image that magnifies the vehicle's fear factor. Now if only the rest of the new generation vehicles had gotten the same treatment as these two instead of the ctrl+c --> ctrl+v job.
No, that was just the prequels and it was stupid. There is nothing in the original trilogy to suggest that they can cut through anything. And don't feed me some stupid shit from some book someone wrote in the 80s, those are stupid too.
Given we humans went from no aircraft until 1903 to placing that same aircraft on the moon in 1969, a 66 year difference to the sequels 66 years in universe (If we go from Ep 1 to Ep9), there's a huge problem. Literally the same time span, we went from thinking flying was impossible, to exploring space, the starwars people discovered black paint. It would've been cool if the resistance had old TIE designs, because of restrictions, or budget, or something, which meant the only ship they could get in bulk were the bad Empire ships. Then the first order could have the next evolution of the X-Wing, showing they had huge financial backing. Or even a merger of the Separatist capital ships and the Empire capital ships, taking the best from each design.
I especially loked how the ruling galactic military is an underground resistance movement against the tiny insurgency of the neo-empire. It's kind of if a fraction of Nazis who escaped Germany at the end of WW2 tried to take over the UN and the UN formed a "resistance" to deal with that cell. 😂
The truth of the matter is that some designs of the new movies are rejected concepts of the old trilogy. Designs that for some reason back then were deemed inferior. And I claim they visually are. Like the halved engines of the pseudo X-wing or the gorilla-like pseudo AT ATs. Feels simply lazy. Even though they'll probably have sold it as easter eggs. Nice for the guys who initially did the design, I guess.
I'll just sticky it here:
1) Apparently the progression was Wildcat > Hellcat, not Wildcat > Corsair. I guess this came from me watching movies/shows made Post-war that used scrap parts and I always saw Zeroes shooting down Wildcats and Corsairs shooting down Zeroes. Also, missed opportunity to go Wildcat > Hellcat > Tomcat. Bad, bad Zoot.
1b) I was also aware that aviation was young in 1940, hence why I leapt ahead twice to the F-35 Supersonic Stealth VTOL, whose test-type came out in 2000. Even ten years before it was rolled out, nobody thought you could combine TWO of those words, let alone all three, on a single plane. Ain't innovation something?!
2) A lot of people say "Budget" is why neither side rolled out new designs. A TIE/sf, the two-seater Poe and Finn stole, costs more than a Tie Interceptor. Like a lot more. Also, the T-85 X-wing, which is also from Resistance and actually got a nice cosmetic upgrade, costs barely more than a T-70. Like a pittance.
2b) (NEW!) Also, this is more pointing out how DISNEY offered nothing new. I don't care about in-universe technological stagnation, because that isn't present in either of the other trilogies, as this video points out. The Sequel Trilogy does not get a pass because of a Thermian Argument like that.
3) On the subject of Resistance, I specifically pointed out the Baron Interceptor because it is very clearly an evolved Tie Interceptor that DISNEY themselves created ("You see? You can do it." - Ben Kenobi). A lot of people suggested they use things like E-Wings or Tie Avengers from Legends, but that's just replacing one form of nostalgia for another. I want INNOVATION. Also the E-wing is basically "We Have X-Wing at Home"
3b) I also like the Baron Interceptor because it follows the Mecha logic of power creep, where mid-series the robot gets replaced with a new model that sports more potent weaponry to counter the growing threats, something an ACTUAL XX-Wing would probably abide by. The other trilogies displayed such evolutions, why not here? Even if we started the trilogy with X-wings and Tie Fighters, we should have some cool new stuff to admire by the end.
3c) As for LEGENDS content, I would love to see the TIE Avenger used in more Thrawn content, like how they used the Defender and E-Wing. Thrawn being canon is already fanservice, just pile on an extra scoop with Legends designs in that same space.
3d) My big focus on why the Starfighters specifically should evolve is because the most iconic (and marketable) elements of Star Wars are the Lightsabers and the Starfighters (And, to a lesser extent, their wielders) thanks to how much open role-play they allow. The fact that the sequel trilogy only gets stand-out starfighters in side content is disappointing.
4) Most of you got my point that this observation applies to the series as a whole, where nothing truly new was given the room to shine because so much was smothered by nostalgia-pandering, causing the Sequel Trilogy to feel it has a lack of identity. This was a symptom that put the vibe easily into words.
Also, Finn's the best new character, screw all of you.
"we have X-Wing at home" "X-Wing at home = E-Wing" i always kinda thought that, it looks stupid af to me but it seems to be a big fan favorite. and i have given up on disney im not buying any more of their shi* im just gonna go back and re read the books :) but have a good day!
*Thank you for bringing this topic that points back at the vacuum describing Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy.*
Not as weird as the logic that got the N-1 in Mandalorian with a silver paint job.... Like seriously how is the Mandalorian bounty hunter getting a mid-life crisis sports car he can't take bounties in or store food/weapons, and it is both shiny and about as old as if not older than any Y wing at the beginning of the Rebellion...
At least they tried something esoteric but still.
the Corsair wasn't even used by the Navy until 1944 on US Aircraft Carriers.
It was considered too dangerous for carrier operations. the RN used it however on British aircraft carriers in relatively small numbers - where the RN versions had clipped wings in order to be accommodated on Royal Navy ships.
Most corsairs fought from land bases in the earlier years in the war, operated by the Marines.
The navy instead used Wildcats and Hellcats on their carriers, and for most of the war - the Hellcat was the main adversary the Japanese would face over the Pacific.
You miss understand the vtol and stealth systems and why they weren’t combined earlier . We have had vtol since the mid to late 50s and In production with the harrier in the 60s which was also near supersonic capability. Along with the same stealth technology we have now in the 70s with slight improvements in coating since the 90s but we were still going against sub par aa cannons and low altitude weapon with rudimentary radar capabilities. We simply didn’t have a need for such things. The state of play was completely different. Now we long range stealth capabilities and fights happen within milliseconds from miles away . Also the wings aren’t a issue at all lore wise if they have vr built into the visor like they do in any fighter or bomber/ attack helicopter has it should show all angles based on which direction you are looking . Also about the supersonic you CANT have both if the f-35 goes supersonic the coating is gone and it needs all areas to be replaced after landing . How I know any of is any of this is all my family are AFAC graduates with slots on f-22 /f-35 / grandpa was a bomber and ATOs at AFAC
I remember thinking about this before. They just slapped an additional large gun onto the tie fighter and called it a day. Whats next, a regular old star destroyer but with an additional big gun? Oh wait...
it gets even less original when you remember that the Battle of Corascant features an AT-TE firing from the bottom hanger of a Venator
Guys, hear me out. What if we take the Death Star... and give it a bigger gun?
@@14thdoctor37 It was SPHA-T, this big laser gun walkers from battle of geonosis(ones that destroyed core ship)
@@14thdoctor37 I think that was an attachment welded into that hangar door, not just an upside down walker.
They are space fascists, it makes sense why they don't really evolve it that much, or make stuff that's way too over engineered
This was literally the first thing George Lucas pointed out that he didnt like "Theres nothing new" as he put it
Yeah, I think George would’ve taken the aesthetic in a unique direction given how he did the OT and prequels. OT was 70s, PT was 50s, meaning he probably would’ve made the sequels with a 2000s aesthetic in mind.
@@oldylad so, he would have given jaku an Iraq esthetic? As he was inspired by that one for the plot.
Anyways, even if George says that the sequels aren't new enough, he doesn't do that either himself
Yes. Vehicle evolution (or the lack of it) was the first thing that i noticed from the first TFA trailers. I was very disappointed even before the movie came out. Such a shame. Sequels could have been something great, but Mickey chose quick buck instead… The story was not that great either and whole new trilogy felt forced. Like let’s create all these characters so we have everything covered and then somehow create story around them. The story looked to be more of a afterthought.
The other thing is that it seems to me that everyone in SW universe have very short memory 😅 Talking “myth” about something that happened just 30 years ago is very funny 😂. It’s like talking about Iraq war like it happened 1000 years ago 😂🤣😂 That puzzle dagger was very bad joke as well. Why would anyone create a dagger with a silhouette of a quite recent wreck that is being consumed by ocean and storms?
@@FlyByWireYT47 rise of Skywalker doesn't count
@@oldylad Or they could've gone back to the 30s for aesthetic. Art deco style star wars would be pretty cool tbh
It weird to not have tried to innovate the vehicles, even if only for the sake of having cool toys that would be forever tied to those movies
I think they tried to appeal to nostalgia.
@@arturvitor9705 Congratulations Sherlock, you figured it out. :]
It's a numbers game: developing a new toy comes at a risk of fans not liking the new design. TFA had the double task of introducing SW to a new generation while reaffirming the old one. So a paintjob forces the fans to buy a new tie fighter without risking anything at all.
@@lasercraft32if its that obvious why is this a comment thread?
But that would mean creating something new! And we don't want to trigger 40 year olds' Prequel PTSD now do we?
People like to point out that the reason the First Order didn’t have anything new was because they were a small remnant of the Empire that lacks resources and manpower.
There’s just one small issue with that argument. *STARKILLER BASE.*
They spent all their time and resources building it and figured ehh those new old stock things will work?
I guess you could compare it to how modern Russia mostly uses upgraded Soviet-era stuff but still has its cutting-edge unstoppable nuclear torpedo things. It's not a great comparison, I will admit, just playing devil's advocate.
This is actually a good point because they seen to have really inconsistent resources in comparison with the empire
@@drewrussell8531 modern Russia's cutting edge unstoppable superweapons are mostly vaporware or heavily over-hyped by propaganda or they have a grand total of 5 and no real manufacturing capability to make more (or spare parts) at any useful speed for a conflict. Their real "teeth" are the upgraded Soviet designs and the deep soviet-era storage of ammo and other stuff they can't easily re-maunfacture now.
In a "believable" star wars Universe the First Order would be mostly using old imperial tech with incremental upgrades, and the Starkiller Base would be mostly vaporware
An Snoke ship being 3 times bigger than Darth Vader Superdestroyer.
The irony of the last phrase being ''their only innovation, was black paint'' with a clip of Finn, probably the most exciting addition in the first sequel movie that then got made generic and undermined.
The idea of an actual stormtrooper you can relate to was wild, but we cant have nice things
"Where th' *REEEYYYYYYY* at?"
They kneecapped his character in the first movie by revealing halfway through that he was literally just a janitor. Why the fuck was a janitor going on kill squad missions?
What’s worse is the art books had several fresh new starfighter designs and they just decided not to use any of them at all
i think when George Lucas said that he thought the sequels didn't innovate enough, maybe this is what they were on about. the first 6 movies where based off of older movies and media which allowed them to shape into what they became. the sequels on the other hand were just based on star wars.
That's a great point. If you're an artist and you're trying to find inspiration in your old art, your new work will get stale and repetitive.
it's basically the movie equivalent to in-breeding, and with similar results to actual in-breeding
this exactly, it applies to the alien designs to. you can look back to scenes like maz's castle and the casino, the artists were to busy trying to make their designs fit into the cantina from ep4 they forgot to see if their designs fit into the new settings they made for their movies. this resulted in the aliens looking mostly brown and grey, barley any color variation or cool features that ale them stand out.
The first movie was basically a 1 to 1 of a new hope.
@@EatYourToastSon so is this why the prequels have stale characterisation and writing? Because Lucas used old scripts that he write in the 70s to make them?
The funny thing is that they actually succeeded in creating a sequel ship design that learned from its predecessors: the Resurgence-class star destroyer. It learned from the lack of starfighter support by including an enormous hangar deck cutting through the middle of the ship, and it removed the exposed command bridge on the top that we see get destroyed multiple times in the original trilogy. I think the only reason they gave star destroyers the quality redesign it deserved was because most people only recognize the star destroyers by the dorito shape.
...and then they revert back to good ol' Imperial I but scaled up.
@@AlbonitumGbut with a big laser!
New republic/rezistance also gets new cool ships.... In scene where is shitload of random ships, so you can't focus on any
This Resurgence ship looks amazing, holy sheet.
@@AlbonitumG rise of Skywalker doesn't count
There is also a physical reason why the ship change so drastically:
When dealing with physical models on film it really helps if they have drastically different silhouettes.
This is why the U-wing and TIE Striker from Rogue One are so great, because you can tell immediately that those are new
"Ya but umm the troopers...they fly now." First Order Engineer
Mandalorians and Clone Troopers must be shaking their heads in disgust.
They fly now?
It's even worse with Bombers. We went from fire and forget, target locking, Ion Torpedos with the Prequal Y-Wings/Original Trilogy ships, to Gravity dropped, slow ass, bombs from The Last Jedi's slow Bombers that have to fly above their target in the most dangerous and exposed way possible.
Yeah, you can't have a plot about poe uselessly sacrificing bombers without the bombers all dying
@@minestar2247you can have all bombers die and still not have the bombers just suck by design....
So glad that these gravity dropped bombs work in space/s
Sequels were so shit
@@trazyntheinfinite9895 Ok, could you propose a way, cause that would be interesting to listen to a creative
And the bombers are slower than Star Destroyers. Somehow
The problem is as soon as you try to come up with ways to fix it you immediately run into problems with how poorly conceptualised *everything* in the sequels is. Like, what should the First Order look like? Well that depends, are we dealing with the fringe political movement First Order or the Empire 2.0 First Order or the "wipe out every planet with a fleet of Death Star Star Destroyers" First Order? Disney has no idea what these factions really are besides "legally distinct Empire" or "legally distinct Rebels" so what chance did they ever have to create a roster of interesting, thematic and well thought out vehicles?
To make matters worse, they own the rights to the Empire and the Rebels, so they didn't even have to be legally distinct.
@@gowzahrYeah, but then George gets a cut. Can't have that. Not like you're the most profitable filmmaking company on the planet, with so much pull you can force theaters to give you a bigger cut than any of your competition when they show your movies.
@@doomsdayrabbit4398He sold the franchise lock stock and barrel they own it all.
@@emberfist8347 The whole point of the ST was to "burn/bury the past, and then pee on its ashes"....... by directly copying it, except worse in every possible way. A comically accurate cross section of modern hollywood; wanting replace the past with their own thing, but utterly incapable of making anything new.
@@freelancerthe2561Well, in the words of JRR Tolkien- "the Shadow that bred [the orcs] can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own."
Evil corrupts what's already there, basically.
The worst part is that they do have the ability to create cool looking ships. Starfortress from TLJ for example, but they are given the most absurd functions. I understand they they were trying to portrait the painful sacrifice the space crews had to endure, but making those ships the slowest bomber in the entire history of galaxy makes the scene so laughable and hurts the overall message.
The whole scene, and its aftermath, would make more sense if it were explained that the Starfortress is a strategic _ground attack_ spacecraft, meant to drop bombs from orbit and never get anywhere near its target. It would also explain the use of bombs instead of torpedoes.
Leia would have good reason to get angry at Poe, as she could reasonably believe that the bombers would be destroyed before reaching the dreadnought, wasting lives and precious assets.
If I were writing the film, I'd have a scene where there's a First order base the resistance needs to attack, but they have to adjust the plan because they no longer have any strategic bombers to destroy it with.
@@ReddwarfIV if I was Disney, I would take JJ Abram and Rian Johnson life.
It would've been better if they had an explanation on why the approach was so slow. Maybe the bombers are supposed to be used on much larger targets, so they had to go slow to aim properly?
@@ReddwarfIV that rewriting would probably take too much time from the main characters
@@JetTheBaron why would you need that to be explained to You? You just explained it yourself
It's called "creative bankruptcy". The people behind sequels are so creatively bankrupt and morally corrupt they would rather steal fan designs instead of coming up with something themselves.
Imagine having this amazing opportunity to add something new into Star Wars canon and doing absolutely nothing with it.
I 100% read the thumbnail as “BACK PAIN”
A scene where a veteran Empire pilot points out the First Order standard TIE is crap and insists on piloting an older but better designed TIE interceptor or defender would have been great.
"Wait, is that TIE new?"
"Yes, it was delivered-"
"-Not what I meant, I mean is that a new construction of the same TIE I used to fly?"
"Yes! The plans were-"
"-No. I am not flying one of those again. Why would you even make more of them? We don't have the numbers to make up for all the faults in that kriffing disaster of a design! Do you have any Defender or Interceptor's left?"
"Those would be refurbished from Imperial service-"
"-They also will mean I live through the first dogfight, so I'm taking one."
@@Sorain1 Is “kriffing” a canonical cuss word in Star Wars? If so, that’s amazing. If not, I still find the term intriguing.
@@felwalkr_94 maybe a scrambling of "frigging" or "fricking"?
Are we sure that J.J. even knew there was more than one design of TIE fighter?
But that also humanizes the First Order and we can’t have that outside of Finn
Just be glad we didn't get a black Millenium Falcon
Han: Tf did they do to my ship?!
Funny thing is, in Legends Han literally painted the Falcon black at one point.
That would've made more sense, as that is a very specific ship that has changed overtime. They also said in "The Force Awakens" that it was old.
Lego :
Tbf, we got a black Millenium Falcon back in the Expanded Universe.
Check Solo concept art lol.
Prequel trilogy: sleek ships that are also clear precursors to technology in the OT.
Original trilogy: slightly battered and worn ships, but clearly still effective depsite their age.
Sequel trilogy: Uhhh, how many buckets of black paint do we have?
Always loved how the Prequels' aesthetics made them look like the "more civilized age" Obi-Wan describes in ANH
@@LifeofSquidMannit was the 50s aesthetic, clean colorful and shiny. The OT had a 70s aesthetic, so the sequels should’ve looked like the 2000s or somewhere in between
@@oldylad well, if you consider the ot to be 70's, then the aesthetic is 90's to 2000's
They didn't even make them ultra-low reflectivity, like VantaBlack\etc... which would actually be useful for reducing how visible they are _in the inky black void of space._
@@prophetzarquon1922 y'know, that honestly would be pretty neat. Some sorta stealth coming into the fray
3:56 You just described Disney Star Wars in general.
It also raises more questions: where are The Dark Troopers? why is Phasma’s chrome armor not made of Beskar? What advancements were made to the First Order troopers compared to Stormtroopers? Why are Sith Troopers in First Order Trooper armor but painted in bright red lipstick making them an easier target? Why are they called Sith Troopers if they share little or no connection to the Sith and the Force?
Why would the First Order even bother collaborating with Kylo Ren or the Knights of Ren? Why would Remnants of the Empire transfer their power from the Shadow Council and Thrawn to Snoke and Kylo Ren, the latter who have shown poor judgment and are incompetent compared to Thrawn?
Why is the Galactic Republic and eventually the Resistance so incompetent?
How did Lando Calrisian convince the entire galaxy to rally against Palpy in TROS? Can Lando’s rizz topple an Empire?
So many mystery boxes…
@@TheCatWatches The Beskar answer I actually understand since that stuff is supposed to be rare. Also for the Sith Troopers, that was a name recycled from KOTOR (and the LEGO sets for Star Wars: The Old Republic) for the non-force using military forces of the Sith Empire.
@@emberfist8347 I also understand the forging of beskar armor is a closely guarded Mandalorian secret, so even if outsiders could get beskar, making items will be problematic.
"Mystery box" is a euphemism for "I did not think this all the way through."
About the Thrawn part, I imagine they will kill off Thrawn in a movie or series some years down the line, that then directly connects to Episode 7 where Snoke will divert the funds to the First Order
@@jamesbellefeuille2926 Yeah, and I still think the backstory that the Visual Dictionary came up with was cool at least: the armor is coated in chromium salvaged from Palpatine's favorite yacht (Nubian one, so would be a similar design to the ones used by Padmé in the prequels, since he's also from Naboo).
Chromium is decently blaster-resistant, and is often used for starship hull plating, lightsaber and blaster coatings, and certain droids.
"It was always about the money Spiderman."
- Kingpin, CEO of Disney
Nah, it's about the Mets.
Nah, it's about his W E I G H T
in some ways it's a shame Rogue One didn't get produced and released before the sequel trilogy, as it would've done the job of hitting all those nostalgia buttons folks raved about in TFA, leaving the sequels to evolve things.
and somehow it’s rogue one that brought us cool new designs that feel authentic to the series like the U Wing and the TIE strikers… it was both hitting the nostalgia buttons and evolving things and the sequels did neither.
thats 1 of the reasons when i scoff when i hear people say "just like the prequels people will love the Disney movies in the years to come"
Yeah, they're not only bad star wars movies, but even without the star wars baggage, they're just bad movies. The acting, plot, writing, duels, etc., etc. just suck
The prequel trilogy are not objectively great movies (see dialogue lmao) but their acting, overarching plot, lightsaber choreography, and a lot of other things about them are actually excellent.
And not only that, but they actually tie into the original trilogy and tell a side of the story we're actually interested in hearing instead of "the original trilogy again but with Rey the Mary Sue"
@@MaydupNem well heres something, I would say the vast majority of characters from the prequels are actually well liked.
Sure youve got kid Anakin and Jar Jar, but youve also got Mace Windu, Qui Gon, Count Duku, Darth Maul.
Is there any character in the sequels that can come close to how well liked those prequel characters are?
The sequels contradict themselves, that does not bode well for aging.
VII released nearly a decade ago now, confronted with people saying that kids who were in the theater will always love it I laugh in their face and tell them I was one of those kids.
@@knightofarnor2552 . . .
suddenly I feel extremely old
Having played Squadrons in VR, the biggest visibility issue in the TIE isn't the wings. It's the window. The FOV is so narrow you can't even _see_ the wings.
The Wildcat wasn't replaced by the Corsair, but the Hellcat. While the Navy did use both, the Corsair had a number of issues that kept it from landing on carriers for much of the war. Instead, it was mosty operated from airbases by Marine pilots, while the Navy would go on to use the Hellcat as their primary fighter.
Here’s how I’d do it:
-The first order has two factions, one are just Imperial cosplayers led by Hux and the others are just oppertunists (Snoke, Kylo, etc). The former use reworked imperial designs and the latter use more advanced fighters.
-The Resistance is basically working with whatever leftover trash the New Republic didn’t want, which can include some nee ships but also a ton of old ones.
-The New Republic uses slightly more advanced but limited fighters because of their demilitarization. (Like how we have the E-Wings in Ahsoka).
Then in episode 9:
Hux stages a mutiny, not to destroy the first order, but to take it over himself.
Instead of planet destroying weapons, have Palpatine’s fleet just be comparatively super capable and advanced and show his power by having him wipe out Hux’s forces with ease.
Sounds like way too much worldbuilding for JJ Abrams
Bringing back Palpatine at all was a bad idea. If you want to see Ian McDiarmid again, I'd have Kylo stumble upon an old recording that was clearly intended for Vader, giving the location of the secret Sith world or something
To play devil's advocate, while I agree it's dumb the First Order goes back to using fighters based on the original TIE Fighter, with its obvious deign flaws, instead of something based on the later and far superior TIEs, I can't really fault the Resistance for using upgraded X-Wings (they aren't the same X-Wings we saw in the original trilogy but an upgraded model with some visual differences like differently shaped engines). Unlike the TIE Fighter, the X-Wing doesn't really have any obvious design flaws and it was the main starfigher of the Rebellion, so it does make sense for the New Republic to use an improve version of a proven design their pilots would already have been familiar with instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.
A comparison between 1940s fighter planes and 1970s fighter planes doesn't really work in this context because there was a massive leap in technological development between them with the development of the jet engine. Meanwhile starfighters in Star Wars are a proven technology that hasn't really seen any revolutionary innovations in centuries, so any improvements in design would be iterative: a more powerful engine, a better hyperdrive, improved weapons, etc. A difference between 1970s fighter and modern fighters would be a more valid comparison, and modern fighter jets still have the same basic look as 70s jet fighters. They're not identical, but it's clear that one is an evolution of the other.
Now if you excuse me, I'll have to go scrub myself clean. Defending some aspect of the sequel trilogy makes me feel dirty.
I have pointed that out as well. The difference between an F-18 Hornet and a F/A-18E/F Super Hornet is pretty subtle. F-16's are still flying with avionics upgrades but the same external frame that is over 40 years old. The B-52 is crewed by people who could be the grandkids of the first generation who flew them!
The thing I think could sell that though in Star Wars, could be at showing that more advanced new ships were made but had limited production runs due to say cost (like our modern F-22 and F-35). Oddly enough the TV series have supported this, not the movies. Ahsoka introduced the E-Wing, and Resistance the T-85. Even the Galaxy's Edge theme park has the exclusive TIE Echelon as a new "TIE" family vehicle. All they need to say is "E-Wings are expensive" and it cements them as the F-22 of Star Wars... I don't know if it is good for Star Wars to answer these questions in secondary media, but I do appreciate at least we are seeing some of these alternate ships in external media.
To be fair though, the old EU Legends continuity spoiled us with new ships. But it was comics, video games, TTRPG books, etc. that introduced the ships; not too dissimilar from the TV series and theme parks now. We just had the benefit of an equally diverse roster of new ships in the Prequels at the same time as well! The only multi-media project outside the TV series now that is regularly introducing new ships I guess are the High Republic books and comics, but those are so isolated from the rest of the timeline they need their own style like KOTOR and the Legacy comic had in the old EU.
Besides all of that, the Resistance were not taken seriously by the New Republic Senate and only ever managed to get old, outdated ships through backroom deals. The Resistance had T-70 X-Wings, whilst the New Republic’s Peacekeeping Forces used the T-85 primarily.
Even the New Republic as a whole failed to innovate because their first Chancellor was a short sighted pacifist who scrapped 95% of the Rebellion’s Navy immediately following the war. They subsequently became complacent and never took the threat the First Order posed seriously until their capital was obliterated.
Another reason the resistance used X-wings was that they didn't actually have the full support of the New Republic if I'm remembering right. So they mostly had to do with outdated equipment that might have gotten some refurbishment when they got 'em.
@@TheLordofDarkness1995 that is actually something canon does have to reconcile eventually. Compare Mon Mothma in Andor, the cloak & dagger person who would willingly let her daughter enter an unhappy arrainged marriage to maintain the secrecy of her own rebel activities (funding people like Luthen and via proxy Saw Gerrera) doesn't really mesh with the Mon Mothma of the Aftermath books who went "lol, scrap the navy." It's a fault of any multimedia project with multiple writers involved, but I hope they eventually reconcile that discrepancy. 🤷♂️ IDK where and how Mon's pacifist streak will start, but it could at least make an interesting story.
We know Mothma and Gerrera have a falling out over Mon's repulsion over Saw's violence. But that doesn't seem to be enough of a tipping point for her to scrap the entire navy after the war is over. Especially if Thrawn returns as the TV shows have set up, it only would make scrapping the navy seem even more short-sighted.
@@jacoblyman9441,
It's stupid... It's just post-hoc rationalization why the writers of the ST redid the Evil Galactic Empire vs Hopelessly Outnumbered Rebel Alliance. This post-hoc rationalization was required since the writers of the ST never bothered figuring out how the Galaxy of Episode VI turned into the Galaxy of Episode VII. Then presented us with The First Order and their system destroying super-weapon being assaulted by the Resistance... which doesn't even have the manpower/vehicles to be even a _task group_ and yet are expected to go up against an entire freaking navy which is capable of building a super-weapon with brand new technologies which took at least the equivalent of _ONE_ Death Star's worth of material to make.
There is plot armour and then there is just plot contrivances... the ST existed entirely _ON_ plot contrivances... and the writers whose job it is to fill in the gaps had an impossible task.
Someone finally put it into words.
I take particular issue with the Y-Wings in the ST, because they're _not_ there in VII or VIII, but then IX was written for fanservice, and fans had been bitching about the lack of Y-Wings in VIII, so they put Y-Wings back in, even though it's a consistent pattern in the OT movies that whenever they use Y-Wings, the Y-Wings suck and the smaller ships have to do their job for them.
And Legends did this too. They tried introducing the E-Wing early on, and they never really caught on. The New Republic/Galactic Alliance quickly reverts to using upgraded X-Wing variants. And then they take a step _backwards,_ and say that they gradually phased out the A-Wing because it was unreliable and the B-Wing because nobody except the Mon Calamari could fly the things, so it really does mostly become X-Wings only. The Imperial Remnant are a bit better about it, introducing a bajillion TIE variants, but the evolution of technology mostly stops at "What's the most familiar and iconic thing from the movies? Yeah that."
They do have _somewhat_ more of an excuse though, since a lot of the EU was written pre-Prequels.
Yeah I was expect TIE Interceptors and B-Wings on account of them being the replacements for the TIE Fighter and Y-Wing. The lack of Y-Wings came from people complaining about the Resistance being so downgraded they lacked anything but X-Wings VII and had the stupid bombers in VIII which made no sense.
Eh, E and B-wings didn't work out in Legends for a thing that happens in the real world too: cost. For example, the F-22 is a great plane, but it's way too expensive to maintain so they scrapped it. The F-35 is similarly super freaking expensive. It's like how they've tried to replace the AR-15 a bunch of times and then scrapped it every time.
Personally I was complaining about the lack of B and A wings, but yea. X wings sticking around in some new form is pretty standard for star wars, they're basically the F-16 of the expanded universe. Best at nothing but pretty good at everything, and nimble enough. Leaves flexibility for the more specific roles.
@@Aerowind The F-35 is actually cheaper per unit now than a lot of older jets, notably including the F-14. And the M4/16 (as well as the M249) started being phased out in favor of the XM7 and XM250 back in March.
the worst bullshit was the old ass star destroyers with death star guns hidden in the ice but with full crews somehow lmao
And the full crews, construction, materials, food and engineering personnel all made it Exegol via a single Sith holocron, erm, wayfinder.
The transition from WW1 to WW2 is even more prominent: their prototype "handheld machine gun with pistol ammo" had already become the Tommy gun and further changed to the M1; tanks went from armoured vehicles to having light artillery on top; and aeroplanes went from being unarmed and telling artillery where to shoot to having bombers and dogfights just in WW1 alone.
My favourite thing about the sequel X wings are the engines.
Notice the small blades in them? In the original, those were meant to be turbine blades (or modelled off that anyways.) You know what turbines do? Spin.
Now disney cut them in half and somehow they still work? And the turbine blades are still there, just in a completely non-functional state
Are you talking about the magnetic vanes that vector their thrust?
Hm.
@@stevenschnepp576No those are in the rear. He is talking about the intakes for the compressor.
They're based on the original concept art tho
They never spun in the original designs.
...Also there's no reason for them to spin anyway, because X-Wings are SPACESHIPS. They are maneuvering in vacuum. There's nothing to intake. X-Wing engines are shaped like jet engines because it's a neat and distinctive shape. And it evokes the appearance of real-world technology, making X-Wings feel somewhat familiar to audiences despite being completely fantastical in their design and technology. Which places them in contrast with TIE Fighters, which are far more alien and foreign-feeling in their design, being a collection of geometric shapes that resembles no Earthly vehicle. Encouraging the audience to root for the people in the familiar-feeling fighter craft, over their unfamiliar enemies.
The complete lack of ship evolution is why i love the channel EC Henry. God are his ships so cool, thematic, and feel so damn good. I LOVE ship design, the entire sequel trilogy gave us NOTHING to work with.
EC Henry is top-knotch. Highly recommend his content to any Star Wars fan.
If I were Disney I'd have hired him, they were certainly happy enough to steal his art for comics nobody read.
lol I never made the V-19 / B-Wing connection until you pointed it out.
tbf they do technically play entirely different roles lol. the V-19 is more of the grand daddy to EVERY starfighter in so much as it was the first and last multirole fighter the republic would ever field. the Headhunter, then V-wing replacing them in the fighter role, the Arc-170 acting as the first "heavy fighter"/recon bomber, and the Y-wing acting as the Republic's golden child strategic bomber throughout the war. the wing pattern on the V-19 also works a bit differently than on the B-wing, and the V-19 serves primarily as a compact "carrier based" fighter which can quickly fold and unfold on the runway, where the B-wings were really more meant to launch from a stationary platform and join the fray from long range (as a long range bomber). so visually they look similar, but practically not even remotely
@@uncivilized_cavemanNo they are still quite similar being variable geometry spacecraft made by the Verpine. The B-Wing was also carrier capable too.
@@emberfist8347 most ships in Star Wars are variable geometry my guy. The way in which the ships move and compact though are different, weapons are different, cockpit is different, they function different, and entirely different form factors, etc. the idea that the torrent inspired the b-wing is a jump at best
And no, the b-wing isn’t “carrier capable”. At least not in the traditional sense. It’s like saying an irl B-25 is carrier capable. Yes, it’s possible, and has even been done. But it’s not practical for most applications and most often isn’t how they’re used. The only purpose built carrier crafts in the rebel line up are really just the A-wings. All other crafts are long range and most often launched from the ground to their target from hyperspace. Though most of their capital ships do have a detachment of X-wings on board in the early years, it’s not really how they were used by the battle of Endor.
@@uncivilized_caveman No all Rebel starfighters are designed for service aboard carriers. The B-Wing is more comparable to the A-1 Skyraider evolving from the SBD Dauntless and TBD Devastator.
@@emberfist8347 literally none of them are. An argument could be made for the Y-wing which was carrier based in the clone wars (but still way smaller than a B-wing), but even that is most often ground deployed, not fleet deployed.
You can’t forget the extra red stripe some have to designate them as “elite” fighters.
It’s like every day, these movies just get worse and worse, the more the clear lack of any effort is pointed out.
It's even worse when you realize how many unique and interesting post-Empire ship designs exist in Legends. They had an entire pool of ships to use or take inspiration from, but they stuck with rehashed OG trilogy ships. We could have had E-wings and K-wings flying against Chiss Clawcraft Ties. In fact, we could say the same thing about the plot of the sequels too. We could have had a story about extragalactic invaders, or fighting the Imperial Remnant in the Unknown Regions. But instead we just got a rehashed OG trilogy.
the thing is, Disney does not fully own everything that is now legends star wars, so they would have to give money to people to use their designs or stories, and Disney is allergic to paying people.
George Lucas also already had a vision for the sequel triology, they could have just used it and printed money
It is even weirder when you realize they were capable of innovating and selling new toys. Look at bb-8. He is an astromech droid like R2, but he is obviously a newer model. I think bb-8 has done extremely well on the merch side. I had several bb-8 toys myself. Obviously they can design new tech.
I still couldn’t get past his issue he would have with stars compared to R2 who we saw could use stairs. I expected more modern Astromeches would be slimmer, but still keep the same basic shape.
@@emberfist8347 At least they tried, which is better than the ships.
I used to have one that connected to an iPhone app and actually rolled around, but I broke the antenna and it stopped working :(
@@SkullpunkArt I think I had one of thsoe too.
bb-8 is such bs low effort design that ignores what that robot is actually for in-universe. Yeah let's take a R2 head and stick it on a rolling ball. Done. Nobody cared to think why a ball is bad for an astromech, it can't do stairs and it's much more complicated to use magnetic plates to "walk" on the ship's hull to do repairs (which is kind of its job)
Honestly I'd argue that the real reason TLJ failed to leap the series forward was that 1.) it was arguably still interested in courting the old imagery and ideas, and 2.) every single time it introduced a new kind of vehicle not seen before, it's ALWAYS shown to suck and ends up losing to the old nostalgia bait stuff
(Honestly this dicotemy embodies my feelings on TLJ as a whole but I'm not interested in any discoursing that stupid movie ever again so I'll leave it at this)
That Paige Tico-driven bomber ship that everyone was “oooh it’s based on a ww2 bomber plane, George Lucas would do that!” was one of the most forgotten ships in a battle, mostly because of how ugly it was, how junky it was, the gravity thing, and as much as it being redundant since Y-wings already existed.
I feel like Shin Hati’s plane-ship got more praise than that thing ever did
Insane that TLJ is what you have an issue with when it comes to this topic. Despite it being the only one of the movies to actually hold and overall original theme and idea. Kylo deciding that he doesn't want to serve the Jedi or Sith, Light or Dark and would rather burn it all away was far more original than what...? Lost child on desert planet gets the chance to escape using an old dusty smugglers ship that's seen as garbage, only to join a rag tag group to destroy planet killing battles station.
@@DioBrandoZaWarudoMudaMudaMuda Insane that TLJ is what you defend when it comes to this topic, eh? All that movie was doing was "burning the past," as it called it. Yoda's message says it clearest: "We are what they grow beyond." It wasn't really doing the part where it moves forward at all, just, well... trying to set the stage for something else after it to move forward. That's why the last scene was some random nameless kid looking out towards the future. Destroy the past like TLJ, revere the past like TFA, how can you truly say one is more original than the other when neither is actually creating anything? No wonder TROS was a mess that had no idea where to go with its story, it was the third movie in a trilogy, and yet all it got from the last movie was just "make something new." Can't believe it took us two whole movies to get to where our Episode VII should have started in the first place, y'know, a new story that grows beyond the 6 movies we got before.
Of course it did. You cannot relentlessly misrepresent the past without bringing it up.
@@DioBrandoZaWarudoMudaMudaMudathat was like 2 minutes of dialogue near the end of the movie
5:31 the f 15 eagle entered service in 1974. FIFTY YEARS LATER, the us revealed the F 15 EX. its a radically different airframe, redesigned from the ground up. but it looks exactly the same. sometimes a successful design doesnt need to be replaced
I never thought about the tie fighters' blind spots, but I would hope that they had cameras covering every angle.
Just talking about the starfighters, they could have taken inspiration from Legends, using the E-Wing for the Resistance and the TIE Avenger for the First Order. They're familiar enough to be recognized as evolutions of the X-Wing and TIE fighter. For the Avenger, you can even see the design similarities with Vader's X1 from ANH. To see an entire fighter wing of Darth Vaders would scare anyone.
I disagree. The Avenger would make more sense in a Thrawn-themed work, maybe, like how they used the Defender. I said the Baron Interceptor specifically because it's something NEW.
And it's not like they simply couldn't for whatever reason, hell, the E-Wing was even featured in the Ahsoka Series!
@@foxxojones4757 In that case, I feel it's because the E-Wing has big "We have X-Wing at home" energy.
That tie avenger model is just sleek and deadly looking.
They _did_ go the Legends route, because they were still using X-Wings by 30+ years after Endor there too.
Imagine how much cooler seeing X-wings and tie fighters in Rogue One would’ve been (as cool as it was) if we hadn’t already seen them in Force Awakens. They’d already planned to have Rogue One capitalize on nostalgia. There was no reason to do it so heavily with the sequels. Surely they knew they could only ride that train for so long.
It was actually cooler to see them in that movie because they understood this was their time.
I'm not going to give the Last Jedi any credit for moving the needle forward. This is the same movie that features "new" AT-AT and AT-ST walkers that look almost exactly like old AT-AT and AT-ST walkers but black. And that's on top of that movie making multiple scenes that are almost canon copies of better scenes in the Original Trilogy (Hoth and The Emperor's Throne Room).
I always was bugged by the TIE Interceptor not being standard in the ST. It was always the Empire’s plan so I expected something. Or maybe at least have them switch to non-TIE craft to show their irregular nature as they aren’t supplied by the Empire.
In Legends, the Empire used Clone Wars Wars era ships in its early years (Venator SD, V-Wing, Arc-170) but moved away due to the regime change and to focus on quality over quantity. Also used non-TIE Starfighters but in very limited use like Thrawn Missile Boat.
@@youwayo The actually issue was quantity over quality as the TIE Fighter was an example of that. Also I know all this. I’ve been a lifelong Star Wars fan. My suggestion of using non-TIE Starfighters for the First Order was also inspired by Legends ships such as the Howlrunner from Dark Empire and the Preybird from Hand of Thrawn.
The ships were half assed like everything in the sequels. The worst part about that is they actually bring up the manufacturing aspect in the last Jedi but don’t actually show anything new that they’re trying to sell
What makes that dumber is that all designs were from three rival manufacturers so nobody could selling them all.
It took around 40 years from the P-26 peashooter to the F-16 Fighting Falcon. 50 years later, the F-16 is still in service.
because the f-16 is good, and doesnt have two large hexagons on either side.
additionally, the resistance still hasn't innovated as the US military obviously has, especially with the B2, F-22, and F-35.
It bothers me the only "innovation" were those sad parodies of B-17. Like if you want ship with turrets, you already have Millenium Falcon, which is by itself a mass produced ship, that did proved itself in combat. Modifying the type or similar Correlian ship to a bomber would have been both logical and satisfying.
and in star wars the hammerhead was in service for like 20,000 years
Yeah but B-2 and F-22 are very limited in numbers due to the end of the Cold War and the F-35 is started to get up in numbers but the Navy hasn’t procured that many preferring the Superhornet which could’ve lost to a F-14 derivative if money wasn’t as much of a concern.
The components INSIDE the F-16 have changed a lot over those 50 years, though.
Seriously, why didn’t we get more new vehicles?! And why did the new vehicles we did get, such as the Starfortress bomber, Suck Ass?!
because Jar Jar Abrams and Cryin’ Rian Johnson have no creativity
Not to mention that black color is the most unsuitable option for spacecraft being irradiated by sun all the time
This is mildly funny to think about considering every other type of ship, weapon, and vehicle had updated in some form or another over those 30 years but the key things that determined multiple battles and was known as a major aspect of the war by some like thrawn with him and his tie Defender program was what never updated at all.
Imagine loosing a war mostly due to the enemy having better planes and your lesson learned was to just make better tanks, ships, and infantry equipment. Or as the rebels imagine winning a war with said planes and then never innovating to keep that edge.
The sequels as a whole felt like they had no real continuity with the original trilogy, and the technology is only one instance of that. Another thing that frustrated me is how the First Order basically spontaneously generated from nothing. One day the Empire falls and the galaxy is in chaos, then emo boy has a tantrum and somehow now there's another Empire with lots of ships, soldiers, and a giant superweapon 10 times bigger than the Death Star. I guess some of it was created from the remains of the Empire, but that's a half-baked explanation. How did emo boy and Snoke unify these fragments of the Empire and lead them? What do they have to offer to their subjects? Where did the giant superweapon come from? The original Empire answered all of these questions. It was created from the remains of the Republic, the emperor himself was a politician in that Republic who rose to power from it, and he was a competent emperor who was actually liked and supported by a lot of the people they ruled. And he was planning the construction of the Death Star before the Republic even fell. But there is no meaningful context for the sequels. It is just nostalgia vomit. Even if they can elaborate on it and explain some of these things in spin-off stories and lore, it does not feel logical.
ive been working on a sequel rewrite in my rewrite the first order has such a huge military and its a mystery how they got it and later it's revealed that the first order has been travelling to another galaxy that is in a state of chaos and basically promising species that live there to save their home if they fight for them
It kinda feelsl ike they intentionally left a gap to capitlize on it in spin offs lmao
@@donutstudios6353 That raises far more questions. Particularly since you can’t travel to another galaxy.
@@donutstudios6353 That raises far more questions. Particularly since you can’t travel to another galaxy.
@@emberfist8347 in ahsoka they literally travel to another galaxy its established in canon that you can go to other galaxies
Black paint is just magic, what can I say.
Except in days of high heat 😅
@@valthenvega2434 It just makes them more powerful.
Yup, this is a great representation of everything that was wrong with the sequels. Vehicle designs are always changing as the environment changes. There is no perfect design only tradeoffs, and not all tradeoffs work in every scenario. So your designs have to change and adapt based on how the environment changes and adapts. That doesn't mean we can't still see older designs still in service, but they are likely to be few and far between, or reserved for specific scenarios where their design is simply better. As the war goes on and the tactics change to take advantage of the tradeoffs from each side's design, you will always have an evolution of design to counter those tactics.
@@evancombs5159 And they make so-called perfect designs for the bad guys to railroad the plot while ignoring obvious issues.
Hey, don’t diss the new tie fighter so hard! They added a second seat to it, so their air crew can suffer double the casualties for half the airframe losses.
You know what else is frustrating? There ALREADY ARE updated ships from Legends, including the E Wing that they put in the fucking disney+ shows
What if, here me out, the resistance all had updated craft EXCEPT Poe because haha Topgun reference. Idk man feels in character.
If it's anything like the Rogue Squadron games, they should have little 3D radars to know enemies are on the side. THEN AGAIN if they use stealth like the Normandy you'd need visuals to know they're there. But if Disney didn't care to think about internal consistency then neither will I.
Most ships in SW had too high of a power requirement to utilize stealth generators. It wasn't until the New Jedi Order era that they compacted them enough to fit in X-wings.
2:00 - better example, the F4F Wildcat was replaced by the F6F Hellcat. It ties in better with the F-14 Tomcat example, all built by Incom Corp - I mean Grumman.
It's funny, because (visually) small, iterative improvements between the F4F, F6F, and the F8F Bearcat echo pretty closely with the iterations of the T-65, T-70, and T-85 X-wings. Especially given Star Wars is very much going for a 'WWII in space' aesthetic...
Okay, I see that reference and appreciate that you dropped it.
Always fun to see a quality video from an up-and-comer like this.
I like how any original ships these movies introduced are literal toasters with wings.
Yeah, the Resistance transport Leia arrives in for TFA was BUTT UGLY!
@@AustroidI keep seeing the toys for it in the clearance section and there are always so many left.
I personally think that the Resurgent-class Star Destroyer gets a pass in this situation. It improves on previous destroyers by making the bridge less exposed while the enclosed hangar at the front is a callback to the Venator.
When it comes to the Resistance, I've seen it pointed out before that it was mainly using outdated ships donated by various planetary defence forces. This somewhat justifies there being little innovation from the OT designs, but in that case the ships should be much less uniform and sleek.
Yeah the Resurgent is fine (if a bit over-the-top considering the resources the First Order should have), but then the Xyston-class is *literally* just the ISD model scaled up by 50% and with an added paint stripe and superlaser.
For my head canon; I always thought of their helmets similar to the f-35 helmets that have a virtual visor HUD that can see targets all around.
The best part is that both the old EU AND NEW DISNEY SHOWS had innovative NEW REPUBLIC SHIPS! E-Wings and K-Wings were RIGHT THERE
In a meta-contextual sense, the reason there's no forward-thinking technology design is because Disney is in fact itself, longing to return to a mythologized history of the Star Wars franchise. It bleeds into every single aspect of the Sequel trilogy.
Yes. Finally someone said this. I honestly would enjoy the sequels MUCH more if they had NEW tech, vehicles, armies and all that instead of just repainted original trilogy stuff
While a problem, this is the least of the Sequels' problems.
It's emblematic of the big problem with the sequels.
@@AmandaLeeHarrington Exactly. The sequals just straight up re-used everything, especially the plot. We wanted 5 star michelin dining, we got yesterdays re-heated takeaway.
A lack of identity is a pretty big problem but you're right
You might call it a microcosm
@@Stubbino not fair to reheated takeaway but yes
Really great editing on this!
Also, I like how you took an objective look at the art direction rather blaming the writing decisions as the sole fault of the entire Trilogy lol.
4:20 the E-Wing and K-Wing from BFC were some of the very best Original EU craft. I know other authors kept developing new X-Wing variants for the main characters, but the E and K became the new gold standard of the New Republic Defense Fleet, relegating Y-Wings and Rebellion-Era X-Wings to local sector defense craft.
The sequels are basically just the original trilogy, but spray painted a different color
I can’t lie the x-wing’s do look pretty damn good in black
That Gundam pun really got me lol. Great vid.
The sequels have a LOT of problems, but this is certainly one big issue. I'm also of the camp that vehicles (and troopers) introduced in the spinoff movies (TIE Striker, TIE Brute (TIE-RB), U-Wing, the TX-225 GAVw Imperial Tank, the AT-DT, the Shoretroopers, Imperial Patrol Trooper, the Range Trooper (the ones with the magnetic boots who attack Solo and the gang on the train), etc...) were great and should have been items of the Sequel era rather than injected in the middle of Prequels and OT.
Aside from all that, though; there's just a LOT of convoluted crap in the sequels, poor writing, mistreatment/management of 'legacy' characters, no real motivations for anything anyone's doing, "WTF?" moments ("Somehow Palpatine returned..." and "I'm the spy!"). Not to mention everything looks TOO futuristic and shiny; exceedingly few things have that Star Wars aesthetic to them in the sequels (when not piggybacking off of the existing material; like the X-Wings, and Resistance trooper helmets that just look like repurposed Y-Wing pilot helmets). Take the AT-M6 (ew, that name...). It's just "AT-AT, but bigger, and monke." Not to mention that it doesn't even perform its function as a proclaimed "Artillery walker" (per the gigantic cannon on its back/shoulders), sitting right up on the front line alongside standard AT-ATs at the battle of Crait, but its Big Boy™cannon seems to only REALLY have the same firepower as any other walker blaster. Allegedly that big cannon is capable of piercing planetary shields and breaking installments, but it barely makes a dent in the dirt/salt like any other blaster during the barrage they do against Luke('s fake AI image). And then there's the Resistance bomber.... oh god that bomber. Good design, aesthetically, horrible function and execution.
In my eyes AT-M6 was clearly meant to be the original thing to blast that huge gate.
Until somebody noticed, that for dramturgical reasons or so, they needed something different, but the AT-M6 was still kept.
The really not Star Wars walker ist that weir grabby war of the world like thing we shortly see in the background during Rise of Skywalker.
I honestly don’t like the Patrol Troopers. They feel like poor man’s Scout Troopers that don’t need to exist since Regular Scout Troopers, an intermediate between the Prequel Clone Scout Trooper Armor and the Original Scout Troopers or Imperial Army Troopers, or CorSec would have been better choices.
@@TheWampamI would take the AT-M6 over *towed artillery* speaking of the AT-HH is more non-Star Wars looks like it stepped out of StarCraft or Warhammer 40k.
@@ilovemonkeyos What environment are Range Troopers intended for?
The R2 astromech droids were still being used 20 years after they came out before episode 1
1:06 not to mention the hige profile there, which is a little helped in the advanced too
Guess if you consider that the message of the sequels is, as Churchill said, "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it", then it makes sense that nothing changed. Still, would have been nice to see some new vehicles.
The resistance X-wings are not supposed to be cutting edge. They are a design that was developed shortly after Return of the Jedi, that the New Republic had phased out. The Resistance was using obsolete technology because that’s what they could get their hands on.
And yet an Imperial splinter can be better equipped. If the Resistance was armed by the New Republic why do they need hand me downs? And why not E-Wings which were also made shortly after Endor?
That's just a post-hoc explanation for why we got what was in the movies. Disney didn't HAVE to make it that way-- they made it that way to justify their decision to mirror the original trilogy, even though doing so made the series less imaginative and fun.
Oh I was very aware of this. After I saw TFA for the first time, I was completely underwhelmed and bored. It was a movie clearly built around brand recognition, rather than any attempt to tell a compelling, well thought out story. I went to the film to see new and exciting things, and what I got instead was my father's old toy box, hauled out of the closet.
I have the same complaints with my true SF love, Star Trek. Modern Trek is either wildly departing from the themes and stories which made it popular to begin with, to the point of it not even feeling like Star Trek--or else they're dragging out the same old toy box with Kirk and Spock for the umpteenth time, cashing in on lazy nostalgia bait.
I'm getting more excitement and enjoyment out of Chinese-made science fiction, these days, rather than with the American classics.
Just a silly note: The WWII Corsair saw its last combat AFTER the F-14 was flying. Over Haiti, IIRC.
- "they had 30 years and their only innovation was black paint"
Instantly show a scene with Finn;
Ends video;
I know it was wrong, but I buffed a little
Of course black paint is an innovation! It makes it so they blend into space easier!
Its not even like the tie interseptor isnt just as recognisable.
If they're going for the energy of that 14 year old who thinks the tiger was the best tank ever made, they could have gone for the empires tiger, instead they used the empires Stug III
Now that isn’t fair as the StuG was a better design than a TIE more like going for Empire Panzer IIs.
the double X-wing actually looks wicked
The front end of it is the Vic Viper from Gradius, one of the coolest fictional space fighter designs ever imo.
That's the least of the Sequel's issues. Technically they may simply have added a Helmet Mounted Display that provides a 360° see through capability, along the better tech... Disney wanted the "classic" to appeal to the fans, while corrupting the story, the canon and nearly every established law. 😢
They could have shown that in a brief scene how advanced the new TIE Fighters. Apparently even the basic First Order TIEs have hyperdrives.
They could've had a scene where the Falcon escapes into another system and think they lost the squad, but now suddenly the TIEs too follow them from hyperspace.
Also, there'd been another scene where the Falcon is attempting to exploit the obvious blind spot from the sides or back, but suddenly the TIE Fighter is able to shoot to the back, because the cockpit has a 360° holographic view of the outside and a rear gunner in the back. It'd be even more impressive for the obsolete Falcon to take this "meagre" TIE Fighter down.
5:03 "The Last Jedi tried..." and failed even more miserably than in spaceship design.
When you think about the symbolism of the new 1stOrder TIE, you realize they can't have salvaged old models and repainted them, because theirs includes a rear facing second occupant (gunner), making the whole thing maybe 2.5x the size--and going with your symbolism, they are now lacking vision and having blindspots BOTH for where they are going, but also for where they have been. (And a 'much larger mistake all around.') 😮😂😅
There’s actually two versions of the First Order TIE - one that’s an exact copy of the Imperial one (repainted and supposedly with performance improvements) and the so-called “special forces” TIE which is the one with a rear gunner.
Oh boy, time to throw in on the TLJ discourse again!
The "TLJ tried to move forward" argument always fell flat to me because even in that same film, nothing really changes. Kylo adopts the title of Supreme Leader instantly, so the First Order is still here. Rey took the old Jedi texts with her, so the Jedi are still here. Everything is the same as it ever was. It's just such a weird film - "Let the past die" but the past survives, "failure is the greatest teacher" But Rey never learns anything from failure so that's inconsistent. I'm honestly not sure the Last Jedi even knew what it wanted to say itself.
It's almost as if Kylo's let the past die was supposed to be wrong...
@Tobol5 I go back and forth on that. On the one hand, he's the obvious antagonist we're probably not supposed to agree with. On the other, everything else in and around the film seems to imply that's the correct takeaway. DJ the Splicer makes his argument for why we shouldn't support the mythologized past of the Republic. Yoda blows up the book tree because he says the ancient texts (that I assume he didn't know were removed, but that's anyone's guess) are less important than learning from experience. The director himself said he set out from the beginning to make TLJ controversial and forward thinking. So the movie seems to want us to agree that the past should die, but also...doesn't?
@@IndeedYaBoi I agree. The film is immensely schizophrenic on what it's message and theme is supposed to be (probably because Rian was interested only in making a film that would generate controversy).
To further add to this, the entire film is also nothing but call backs and references to other films too. Snoke's Throne room (Episode 6) Crait (Episode 5, fuck they literally included the "Salt" line to draw attention) Canto Bite (Cloud City plus Jabba's palace) Even the slow speed chase is basically the ending of 5 in reverse. In fact, the entire film is just Episode 5 backwards mixed with Episode 6.
So you have this weird situation where the film both seems to hate and love the previous films. And just as you pointed out, were apparently not supposed to take Kylo or Luke's view as right, but Rey and the others never really prove them wrong in the film.
If I had to be generous, I'm assuming the message was not to blindly cling to the past to the expense of the future, but it's so poorly told that I honestly can't tell, especially when scenes that I can point to for the message (Meeting Luke, DJ, Yoda, etc) are clearly there not because they add to the story but to facilitate some sort of subversion, further harming the movies story telling ability.
@@IndeedYaBoi 1. Like Kylo, DJ is meant to be bad
2. Yoda's point isn't "the past is bad". You guys seriously can't think the movie would EXPLICITLY show the books being saved while triumphant music plays, while assuming the movie hates the past. Yoda's point was that apprentices are supposed to surpass their masters instead of merely living in their shadow.
3. I'm 90% he just said he wanted to subvert expectations, nothing about controversy or being "forward thinking"
@@invidatauro8922 Again, it's almost as if the callbacks are there because the past ISN'T supposed to be bad.
I love that I just watched a whole video in which it started around black paint, went on for a while, and ended still at black paint, and I can’t complain one bit cuz I was entertained the whole time. This is peak cinema👌👌
You can see in the concept art for TFA that the designers and artists were really excited to make new ship designs and came up with tons of amazing designs, but Disney and JJ Abram’s kept reining them back to X-wings and TIE fighters. There were even attempts to push those designs as far as they could and make very altered versions of those ships that looked new and different while being similar enough that you could recognize where they evolved from, but they just kept getting pushback from the higher-ups who were more concerned about selling toys to nostalgic adults and not even to the kids that the toys should be made for. So what we ended up with was something so similar to the OT designs that most causal fans could honestly mistake them for being from the original movies, and that’s exactly what Disney wanted so they could tap into that nostalgia and earn tons of money from their new IP.
Thank you for very distinctly summarizing my biggest issue with the sequels. And I would just like to add that when you look at the movies in a wider sense, you realize that "the old thing but with a new layer of paint" is a good description of a vast majority of those movies.
“A TIE-Interceptor with cancer” Fax, that thing sounded and looked really unstable 💀💀💀
Cool looking cancer
To be fair to the T-70 X-Wing at least its an evolution of the T-65. It improves the overall design, isntead of regressing ilke the FO Tie
No really because for example they don’t realize it should be called the T-65G or something as that is the X-Wing model name. T-70 would be the name for a completely unrelated craft.
@@emberfist8347
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_F-86_Sabre
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_F-100_Super_Sabre
It's a regression to the Z-95 EU design based on prototype design for X-wing from A New Hope.
I'll say it now, there was nothing wrong with having x-wings and tie fighters. But for the love of god introduce some new ships. Like it was literally a carbon copy, and even the new ships we did get were awful, looking at you resistance bomber. Heck didn't even have to be new, I would have taken fleet-wide adoption of tie defenders over the shitty black paint jobs.
The footage of the TIE interceptor at 1:38 in the video. What’s that from? It looks awesome.
Star Wars Squadrons: Hunted
I do like the Resurgent Star Destroyer. That is a good design. It's recognizably a Star Destroyer, but it has radically different elements with the negative space and visually shows the First Order learning from the Empire's mistakes by squishing the traditional Star Destroyer bridge structure down into the hull.
The AT-M6 from The Last Jedi is a similarly fun new look for a familiar design, as it took the concept of the AT-AT and both improved on its strengths while eliminating its flaws. The AT-AT was used in the films as essentially a mobile artillery piece, and the AT-M6 carries that legacy forward by adding that deadly back-mounted gun. The big, gorilla-eque front legs are a great design element, not only acting as a way to deal with the recoil of that big-ass gun, but also strengthening the legs to avoid the issues seen at Hoth and feeding into this beastly image that magnifies the vehicle's fear factor.
Now if only the rest of the new generation vehicles had gotten the same treatment as these two instead of the ctrl+c --> ctrl+v job.
Prequels and og movie lightsabers: can cut through anyone and anything.
Sequel lightsabers: can only give people a bad scar and cut through trees😂😂
No, that was just the prequels and it was stupid. There is nothing in the original trilogy to suggest that they can cut through anything. And don't feed me some stupid shit from some book someone wrote in the 80s, those are stupid too.
Given we humans went from no aircraft until 1903 to placing that same aircraft on the moon in 1969, a 66 year difference to the sequels 66 years in universe (If we go from Ep 1 to Ep9), there's a huge problem.
Literally the same time span, we went from thinking flying was impossible, to exploring space, the starwars people discovered black paint.
It would've been cool if the resistance had old TIE designs, because of restrictions, or budget, or something, which meant the only ship they could get in bulk were the bad Empire ships. Then the first order could have the next evolution of the X-Wing, showing they had huge financial backing.
Or even a merger of the Separatist capital ships and the Empire capital ships, taking the best from each design.
The Separatists were already using proto-Rebel designs with some Imperial elements thrown in.
I always felt like the sequels have been made by people who have seen the OT like once out of courtesy. They never even considered stuff like this.
And probably only liked TESB and believed ANH was "saved in the edit"
@@LifeofSquidMann,
And thought Return of the Jedi was stupid... (Except for all the scenes they copied from the previous movies).
And you can just see and hear the older rebel laughing because he just out fly everybody.
I especially loked how the ruling galactic military is an underground resistance movement against the tiny insurgency of the neo-empire. It's kind of if a fraction of Nazis who escaped Germany at the end of WW2 tried to take over the UN and the UN formed a "resistance" to deal with that cell. 😂
The truth of the matter is that some designs of the new movies are rejected concepts of the old trilogy. Designs that for some reason back then were deemed inferior. And I claim they visually are. Like the halved engines of the pseudo X-wing or the gorilla-like pseudo AT ATs.
Feels simply lazy. Even though they'll probably have sold it as easter eggs. Nice for the guys who initially did the design, I guess.