Thank you for putting my anger into words better than I could. As a Floridian, I find myself utterly horrified by how people around me that I thought were my allies were so quick to calls of celebration over this result. Thank you for continuing to be a grounding and unifying force for the community through this, and the many battles coming our way.
Thank you so much for posting this conversation. As a trans person in their early 20s living in a red state, I don't have access to these conversations, let alone from my elders. I just can't overstate the importance/impact of hearing this from people who have history in the queer community. Thank you for sharing your experience and conversation
As a queer disabled woman who’s stuck in a red state, Tuesday terrified me. I’ve been comfort watching Watts the Safeword for sanity. I’m starting to feel myself shift now, though, from despair to ‘I now identify as a huge f’ing problem” and I think that’s a better place for me, mentally. It super sucks that we’re back here AGAIN though.
Both my nephews are sucked into this MAGA environment. I'm so disgusted by those family members who raised them so I have decided they will not be my beneficiaries (I don't have children of my own). It's such a shame.
STAND UP & ACT UP!!!! Thank you guys, we do need to stand up & act up! I’m in Tulsa, and the religious control in Oklahoma is tightening and has been tightening for a longtime. Vote with our dollars, be vocal about who you support and don’t.
I love that you posted this conversation. It reminds me of conversations my friends were having in the early 90s. We got things done. We forgot to teach the ones who came after us how to maintain things. It is our lesson to learn.
I'm in Canada, and followed the election for weeks, I'm still shocked also, just Horrible..and scary, anyway, I'm still Rocking the On Guard T-Shirt, love it! and love ya all! Stay Strong!!!!
I am so glad I found you guys. You’re awesome! I’m a straight heterosexual married woman and I will always have your back. The ideas expressed here have been terrific, I’ve been so distraught over the election results . You’ve been like a breath of fresh air. Thank you,thank you.💙💙💙💙💙💙
Thanks guys. Listening in on your conversation did a good job in lifting me out of my funk after the election - I'm not completely out, but much better than I was. I left a red state (MO) in 2017 in response to the freakish MAGA wave and moved to CA where I felt safer socially and politically, and where I figured my healthcare needs would not be threatened. Recent events have me scared, irritated, and angry, but I am also tired and disillusioned with so many Americans for not only allowing this to happen, but even more, WANTING it to happen. I know there are good, clear thinking folk still out there - this salon is proof of that - yet I'm wondering how much more fight I have in me. Still in the ring, but I feel pretty beat up at this point. Keep up the good work.
Thank you gentlemen for saying what you said. It makes me feel better about what happened with the election. And it has given me a new hope about what we as a community needs to do.
He got almost exactly the same votes this time as in 2020, I don't think anything he does will ever turn his cult against him. We have community in those red states, I'm a trans man in Wyoming, and I am currently using those welfare resources to go to school so that I can escape this state.
It's a scary thing, and I don't know what to do. Thanks for this. I'm trans, pan, and very passing, and have been for years. I started my transition is 2004 when I was 18, and though today no one would know if I didn't say...I mean I'm even married. Being passing, pan, kink, poly....it's weird and scary as I can blend in if I want, and there's this terrifying balance of not knowing how to be, do I out myself and risk not just myself, but my family? My wife is fully supporting, and also bi, and female which being female is just a risk. How do I support, speak out, and be, without coming out publicly as trans? I'm really trying to figure this out. Boycott? Sure! On board. Unfriend the fascist? Absolutely! But what else? How do I support, fight, speak out, and protect? It's a struggle right now, and I just don't know.
That's tricky, Evil Angler. Being a body in a crowd though is a good way to avoid coming out. You're just a person who can plausibly deny their queerness for their wife's right to abortion, for example. But what I have found moves the needle most? Is physically ringing up friends to attend events/rallies. Talking to family who disagree about what their disention means for you. And talk to people in other minorities who don't realise what's on the line. Greta Thunberg only brought the climate to the public consciousness because she was present at a protest. Is it risky?? Absolutely. But so is living in denial.
As a Gen-Z Queer doing everything I can (studying Queer stuff academically and with a national organization for gun violence prevention), Please mobilize us, I trust and listen to yall. Our generation is too fractured to have any one voice standing out, so we’ll need a ton of smaller movements working together
It's now 1.5 months past the election: Your FIRE and perspectives through lived experiences and knowledge of history are truly appreciated here. I personally loved the format and how unfiltered everything was - watched all the way through, even rewinding several parts. Thank you for everything you all have done and continue to do. Deep condolences to all who have been lost and will be lost fighting. :(
Sending y'all all my love from NZ. I'm scared - both for my friends in the states & also for the knock-on effect on the rest of the world. Thank you for your words - it's always good to hear from the old-guard. This week a friend suggested to me that I read 'Stone Butch Blues' by Leslie Feinberg. I've now read it and I'm still processing (there's a lot to process) - but the thing that struck me was that even though things are objectively so much better now (night and day) than what ze describes in hir novel, so much is still relatable. I still see myself in hir story, even though I have never lived through a fraction of the violence ze lived through. I'll say this as a high school teacher - our kids are great and far less isolated than we were, even my time (I was a teen in the early 2000s). More sure of who they are and where they stand. But they need our love and support - shit is still hard out there for them and it's about to get harder.
the US is so polarized it’s awful. I only have ever registered Independent/non-affiliated, however I used to say there may be some unusual circumstance I could vote Republican and maybe I would but very unlikely. I’ve never voted anything but Democrat. In OR now I need to register as I have less voting options in the primary as non-affiliated. The people that vote for Trump are either blissfully ignorant or malicious and there is not much of an in between. In 2016 they had an excuse, now they have absolutely no excuse and what they do will be worse.
Rank choice voting was turned down in many areas including OR. Why? We have maybe about 2/3 Democratic votes generally. If you do rank choice sure it gives the first looser some more leverage, but when you have 2 choices that is ridiculous! Why? The dems in OR don’t want it apparently? They want the monopoly? I don’t know.
Thank you for this episode. I could only watch about one minute. I am mentally crushed after the results and have turned off all media and news. I will watch it after my mind calms down. Huge fan of your show. 62 white male from Phoenix AZ. Keep the episodes coming. I wish your show was available when I was growing up. Would it help me a lot.
@@graylinthornton6299Ah, this is a sad story! I grew up in San Diego and get homesick for the old bars and the fun I had there. I wonder if that owner is someone I used to know…? 🤔 Eagle used to be pretty low key, back in the early days. Anyway. F Cheeto.
More more more. I don't have a circle anymore, so you gentlemen are my outlet for hearing gay male voices speak intelligently about what's around them. I didn't have anyone to commiserate the election with, and this felt good. I hope you are never too busy to continue doing this. This salon is important.
As a transgender man from Canada, thank you. Where I live, in Alberta, the government here seems hard pressed to copt the states and I and I am so scared. I am terrified. I have yet to get my name changed. I have yet to get any surgeries. I have yet to do anything except being on hormore replacement therapy and I am scared that will be taken away as well. I am 24 years old but i fear for my siblings, my family, and this younger generation that the right i have enjoyed for my whole life will suddenly be stripped away because of a majority that I did not vote for ends up in power. So I appreciate you folks taking the time, seemingly unedited, to discuss your thoughts on the topic. Because the place I live seems to want to copy the policies and what most likely will come to pass down there. Thank you for spreading awareness. Thank you for sharing your opinions. And I apologize for any spelling errors or grammatical errors. i have yet to be completely sober since all of this 🤣
As someone who live in (upstate) New York, it doesn't even feel safe here sometimes. Looking at the counties map for the election i think the main reason we were still blue was because NYC was pulling its weight. Even out in the other cities like Albany and Buffalo they were such a pale blue it was frankly mortifying. The area where live, there are so many Trump signs that when i did see a Kamala sign it was a novelty. I think most of the men that i know in my life voted for Trump, and some of them I'm not really in a position to distance myself from. Even our ballot proposal, that we still won, that expanded protections against discrimination from gender, sexuality, religion, race, and even whether someone got an abortion or not; where i am there were far more "vote no in defense of 'girl's sports'" than to urge us to "vote yes" [i even saw one that was basically just "immigrants shouldn't have rights", like holy shit]. I was already embarrassed by my area but seeing that map i am utterly ashamed of this whole state, outside of NYC [and this one random deep blue county that i don't even remember what it was called].
Genuinely, prefer how open and honest you all were. No filters. It's okay to say something in the moment and disagree with what you said later on. I feel bad for the over apologizing. As someone with a very bad anxiety disorder who over apologizes. What was said needed to be said. Even if I don't fully agree on some things, IE moving. I'm in a deep south and deeply red state. I cannot move I'm disabled and on disability. My friends and me are all lgbtqia+ they can't help me either. My hands are tied. I'm afraid to be forgotten about, because I'm disabled.
This was very cathartic and inspiring to watch, I really do enjoy the occasional off-the-cuff style salon from you guys and I’m pleased to hear you’ll be doing more. As a mostly closeted gay trans guy in Texas whose hoping to transition soon I’m…. 😐🙃 I hate it here but I only make like $9/hr. I can’t afford to move anywhere. I can barely afford to live in an RV here with just me and my cats. I will say that I’ve never been more grateful to have managed to get a hysterectomy this summer though.
I love hearing you all talk about stuff like this. As a queer person in their 20s I always find it so enlightening to hear what your generation's perspective is on these things. That being said I have to disagree with the bit about Chappell Roan! She's not saying "it's both sides" in a centrist way. She's saying it from the perspective of the left-- correctly identifying that not even the democrats have our backs on several issues, namely their complicity on israel/palestine. (which btw, Taylor Swift is a billionaire who has also said nothing about palestine.) idk if you saw too, Kamala's wishy washy answer on trans healthcare during that interview. "we should follow the law." like... jeez. Of course voting for her was the right decision, but don't you think we should be demanding better representation than this? If we can't hold the democrats accountable to actually represent our views, the overton window is just going to keep moving rightward. Anywho, I appreciate y'all! Thanks for the great podcast!
Thank you gentlemen, I love watching On Guard. I am not involved in any leather or kink communities, just my local bear group and one in Idaho called the Cubs. That being said I have really enjoyed watching you guys because I get educated and entertained all at the same time. I live and was born in Utah, I am Atheist, gay and work in construction...need I say more about what I endure on the daily, let alone what is to come. Mr. Christopher got it right, it's all about the money. Our entire government is owned buy the rich, elite and Christians and has for well over a century, we live in the United corporations of America, an oligarchy. This was going to happen no matter how anyone voted because that was the plan. Left wing or right wing, both exist on the same bird. As you can see I am a bit opinionated, my family think I'm crazy and stupid, perhaps I am, but I've been telling them this was going to happen since I was a teenager living in the Regan regime, and here we are. When you live as a gay Atheist among LDS you learn to read between the lines and see that people are what they do, not what they say. Thanks again for being voices worth hearing, I look forward to the next.
Hi from the UK Great episode. You guys should definitely try to get some activism going there and if you need a younger person heading it up, why not Amp? I'm sure he's equally as fired up about this as you are. And regarding places like Florida and spending in LGBTQ owned businesses - could there not be a listings website started that could list these businesses in these various states? And such a website would need to be made high profile/listed all over the place, in bars, at events, across various social media channels.
17:10 One thing that really struck me about the election night victory speech, was that they played the song "Y.M.C.A." at some point. I had this pavalovian dog type of response, where I thought, the disconnect here is concerning! What do they think this song means to them and what type of cultural erasure may be coming? 20:10 Ah, I see this was mentioned!
Get into some good trouble, we all need to step up. Even if we have been fighting all our lives, now is not the time to stop. And I say this as a cis white queer European, the US is not alone in voting for populist / fascist candidates. Yes: absolutely take time to rest, grieve, rage. But then we have to keep showing up, keep voting, keep protesting, keep donating, keep calling out and keep taking care of our communities.
Graylyn, we need a grassroots organization. That type of active his work is way too large for a small group of people and we are talking about a national impossible international level. We need a grassroots organization that can help focus direct and do the labor work. And that includes all four and myself which I have already started.
Hey Race knowing our passion about all of this, I’m sure you were the one that really instigated this and I wanna thank you from the bottom of my heart. I remember months before the election you put something down on your page about getting out there and doing some Service work for Kamala Harris. Well I signed up for that and I did some service work. I worked hard on that I really wanted this to happen. And thank you for that inspiration that was incredible. You made a difference second thing is I am I’m so shocked to. The morning before the election, I was listening to NPR radio, and they had all of these interviews of all of these staunch right wing women that we’re voting for, Kamala iPad on my bed. Oh my goodness we have this in the bag I need the black community was going to come out and vote for her 85 to 90% dead and I knew women were going to do this too because of the whole abortion issue with a lot of them did. But Trump has something under his for sod right now if you don’t think he didn’t go after young uneducated men for no reason then I think we all need to think again. He’s out to rebuild his parties created, and he’s going to use those young men to do it. He also won after the Latinos because he knows the Latinos are diehard Catholics and how they feel about abortion he played the smart I think we both have to agree with that but what I have done is I got back online I read about project 2025. I looked at a lot of the laws and regulations that we currently have in state. And now I’m looking at what are we actually going to do OK we don’t have to presidency we don’t have a Congress we don’t have the Senate and Trump has illegally set the Supreme Court in his direction. So what we have here really is it is the government against the people we cannot allow him to divide us again as a country we have to come together. We have to learn how to look past our differences, except one another as Americans, and take care of own. The government is not on our side and they are going to go everything out of their way to destroy GLBTQ people. I was a gay activist for 35 years probably not unlike you. Fortunately, you were living in a blue Paul unfortunately, I am living in a red bubble. So as far as I’m concerned, I am now getting involved with the Missouri democratic party and I am going to be pushing some shit and then it taste great great episode thank you so much rice do you do such good work for our community? I really do appreciate it. FYI I saw a couple of my friends in the book Kink Is that was really cool. Hoping to make the conversation on the 20th I know you’re going to be there and I would be so great just to say hello and take care of yourself and thanks again for all you do😊
This is the time to go out in force with local elections. If the republicans are truly in favor of small government, then lets get involved in our state elections. Which means putting forth a LGBTQ+ leather and kink friendly candidates for local government. Even the local school board, local sheriff, local coroner if that's an elected position. Challenge the status quo. Flood the ballots locally. Flood city councils, if things come up on local ballots, dont just turn out to vote every 4 years. Turn out to vote EVERY time. If there's a recall election, turn up and turn out. If there are local town hall meetings, turn up and turn out. In FORCE. Speak up for your rights and your beliefs and everything that you hold dear. Make your noise so loud that they have no choice but to hear you. They may not LISTEN to you, but by gods be HEARD.
Indeed talk the walk! Money where your mouth is. I understand that you are tired to fight, but (just an idea) can you be the mentors, the guru's for the younger gay generation. They aren't (proper & corrected) educated. I'm learning so much from you We need gay history teachers! You are our examples. IA few months ago I started with painting (inspiration mondriaan) but I use different colours (pink). I'm bi leaning more to men. You gave me a reason to be more vocal about the 🏳🌈🏳rights. + you gave me a 🏳🌈goal & 🏳🌈vision to have. Friends indeed be angry & vocal. We as younger 🏳🌈🏳⚧generation need you(r) inspiration!
Excellent video gentlemen. Please keep these coming! Yes, we made way for a very spoiled ,vacuous younger queer community. It’s really interesting because I brought up our generation and the act up movement in regards to the fentanyl crisis. There are all these sad videos of parents who lost children online to fentanyl poisoning. Yet not one of them is angry. I explained to them that all their stories on RUclips and tears equal nothing. And that they should use the, gay act up rebellion template. To create some political action. I think this will actually be really great for the queer community the younger generation and the jaded exhausted older generation. Will actually come together and get their priorities balanced. I think these sons suite social norms are both in genuine and ineffective.so thank you for addressing that fact because my age. I always say I would rather be respected than liked.
I thoroughly appreciated the whole conversation, all the thoughts and demands and foreboding predictions from all of you. This election result forced me to recognize what we have become. Our national character is now quite clear, regrettably. More than half of us just do not care about the welfare of others as long as we are comfortable and secure, and I am flabbergasted that white women to a great extent have fallen into that mindset. My usual sign-off is Peace, but I am reminded now that one definition of peace is total dominance. So, Toodle-Ooh … ?
Thank you for this video. It's great to have your takes on the result of the election. You mentioned so much of what I've been thinking: I'm also shellshocked as Race said, and I can't help but think that those who voted for Trump are racist, anti-LGBTQ+, anti-women's rights, etc. This situation is so sad. My hope is that those who oppose the government will find ways to counter the damages they may try to cause.
Kris: "We are tired of effing fighting" @42:26 We hear you. As an under 30 year old lesbian, I agree with you and promise to fight for the freedoms your generation fought for. I live in Australia and we are getting more and more rhetorical and conservative in no small part because of Trump's success. But we aren't going down without a fight. I personally refuse. What's that Hamilton quote? If you stand for nothing, Burr. What do you fight for?
Thank you for this special episode♡ I'd take it easy on the third party voters personally, I know a lot of Palestinian siblings who couldn't stomach it and still came out to vote anyway OR swapped their votes if they lived in a swing state. Also, those who have ranked choice and chose a 3rd party for first choice and dems for second choice I don't believe are complicit. In any case, it's nice to be in community w everyone - virtually or otherwise♡ This tragedy is a nice reminder that *we* are all we've got♡
As a trans man from Italy a lot of people also lgbtq+ voted for far right reasoning "they wouldn't take away rights" and now that's happening and ia too late to say oops was wrong. I also struggle to understand why Kamala and not 3° party. Biden was supposed to help after Trump and things went really shit for the trans community and women. If they couldn't do anything when in power why vote them again? I'm curious about it because Italy is the same boat😢
@OnGuardCigarSalon absolutely not. I'm really worried about that. As a non US citizen just trying to understand a bigger picture because the whole situation doesn't look good 😢 things went worst because of Biden party or is the power system at fault and in this case a 3° party vote makes no sense. It is a devastating results also for us here
@diegomaco4245 sometimes things implemented take years. Trump set things up for the overturning of Roe v Wade, but it happened during Bidens presidency. So yes, things got worse under Biden, but mostly because of shit Trump set up. Don't get me wrong, Biden was also shitty, it's just that Trump is much, much worse. Unfortunately in the US they have two right wing parties to chose from, it's just that the republicans are far right. They also don't have preferential voting, so there is no point voting third party. This is an outsiders perspective, i am Australian but my son is autistic and has a special interest in world politics, especially in English speaking countries. (Just because politics in English speaking countries is easier to follow. He also has an interest in non English speaking countries, but he has access to less info)
This is going to be long, but worthwhile, I trust … I stumbled upon a passage that eerily applies to our current state of affairs, in a very hopeful way. The character is mulling over his own version of American society, what he calls “this sad game of think-alike” taking hold in 1965. “But the other vitality is still there, that rancorous, sardonic, wonderful insistence on the right to dissent, to question, to object, to raise holy hell and, in direst extremity, to laugh the self-appointed squad leaders off the face of the earth with great whoops of dirty disdainful glee. … Suppress friction, and a society runs down.” This is from a novel, A Deadly Shade of Gold, by John D. MacDonald, Chapter 16. (I am really late to the party in discovering him, but, criminy, what a writer!) Anyway, seems we’ve been here before, so bring on the friction with as much vitality as we can muster. Peace …
Someone needs to tell Cigar Pig Black folks are the reason rock n roll exists along with country. And what he said just after that Snow Tha Product been rapping bout for years. Haha
I really appreciated your thoughts on responding to Trump’s reelection, especially the idea of boycotting companies that support him. I’m curious about your perspective on platforms like Twitter, which many LGBTQ+ folks, especially those in the sex work industry, rely on for community and income. For some, it’s essential for promoting their fan services, which might be their main source of income, while others value it as a platform to amplify their voices. At the end of the day, by using Twitter, we’re supporting Elon Musk, and by extension, Trump. I’d love to hear any thoughts on navigating these kinds of decisions, understanding that we all have to make choices that support our survival.
The group discussion is a good example of the arrogance many voters attribute to the Democratic Party. The very first place your discussion went was to what's wrong with voters. If one truly believes in democracy the question ought to be what's wrong with the product we're offering that the voters didn't want to buy it? Harris was a candidate who never garnered a single primary vote. She offered few substantive policy proposals. She made remarkably little effort to sell her vision to anyone who didn't already share it. She ran against an unbelievably bad opponent but didn't make her own case. No amount of hating him was able to make her qualified. Democrats should be winning elections hands down, but they can't resist lecturing the voters on who they ought to vote for rather than listening to what the voters, you know the PEOPLE in this democracy, have in mind.
Hi guys how can you disown a family member or a close friend if they voted for him isn’t the right to have privacy when you vote and did she ever include gays or transgender people in her speeches ,I don’t like either of them .please don’t separate your country again we don’t need another war between the north and south,put your guys in to his parliament and work from the inside.
@@ampdarts850you’re definitely part of the problem Palestinian Americans have the right not to vote for the administration that has been sending money over to isreal that has been slaughtering their families. humble yourself. They morally could not bring themselves to vote for her. So if they decided to not vote or fore independent they had every right and the democrats ran a bad campaign try reflecting on why it was such a landslide victory majority of Americans were not happy with how things were going
@ congrats on pushing the voters away with a bad economy sending billions to other countries and social issues that turned off the majority of Americans where they felt that trump was the better choice
No you and others like you contributed to allowing Trump to win I have to worry about my possible death and those of my trans friends simply for us being trans
I really appreciated your thoughts on responding to Trump’s reelection, especially the idea of boycotting companies that support him. I’m curious about your perspective on platforms like Twitter, which many LGBTQ+ folks, especially those in the sex work industry, rely on for community and income. For some, it’s essential for promoting their fan services, which might be their main source of income, while others value it as a platform to amplify their voices. At the end of the day, by using Twitter, we’re supporting Elon Musk, and by extension, Trump. I’d love to hear any thoughts on navigating these kinds of decisions, understanding that we all have to make choices that support our survival.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for putting my anger into words better than I could. As a Floridian, I find myself utterly horrified by how people around me that I thought were my allies were so quick to calls of celebration over this result. Thank you for continuing to be a grounding and unifying force for the community through this, and the many battles coming our way.
Thank you so much for posting this conversation. As a trans person in their early 20s living in a red state, I don't have access to these conversations, let alone from my elders. I just can't overstate the importance/impact of hearing this from people who have history in the queer community. Thank you for sharing your experience and conversation
Thank You. That’s why we do it. You are not alone. ❤
this
Thank you so much for jumping on this right away, gentlemen. Much love to all of you and everyone in our communities.
As a queer disabled woman who’s stuck in a red state, Tuesday terrified me. I’ve been comfort watching Watts the Safeword for sanity. I’m starting to feel myself shift now, though, from despair to ‘I now identify as a huge f’ing problem” and I think that’s a better place for me, mentally. It super sucks that we’re back here AGAIN though.
Hang in there! 💙🔵🙏
Both my nephews are sucked into this MAGA environment. I'm so disgusted by those family members who raised them so I have decided they will not be my beneficiaries (I don't have children of my own). It's such a shame.
Same here, both nephews live in Idaho and sadly seem to go along with the crowd.
Thank you for this. Please do more.
OH HELL YES MY BROTHERS!! #BE_THE_RESISTANCE! #WE_ARE_THE_RESISTANCE! This man is already fighting.
STAND UP & ACT UP!!!!
Thank you guys, we do need to stand up & act up!
I’m in Tulsa, and the religious control in Oklahoma is tightening and has been tightening for a longtime. Vote with our dollars, be vocal about who you support and don’t.
i just wish i knew how to look for organizations i can put my energy into that will actually make a difference! i don't even know where to start
I love that you posted this conversation. It reminds me of conversations my friends were having in the early 90s. We got things done. We forgot to teach the ones who came after us how to maintain things. It is our lesson to learn.
I'm in Canada, and followed the election for weeks, I'm still shocked also, just Horrible..and scary, anyway, I'm still Rocking the On Guard T-Shirt, love it! and love ya all! Stay Strong!!!!
I am so glad I found you guys. You’re awesome! I’m a straight heterosexual married woman and I will always have your back. The ideas expressed here have been terrific, I’ve been so distraught over the election results . You’ve been like a breath of fresh air. Thank you,thank you.💙💙💙💙💙💙
Great conversation! This episode should’ve been a documentary and I would’ve paid to see it at a theatre.
Please do more of these casual ones!! But also I will fight you on Chappel💜💜
I definitely want to see more of these!
As a " DIEHARD NEW ENGLANDER " Born & Raised in Connecticut & Retired to Maine," SPOT ON," Gentlemen!
Thanks guys. Listening in on your conversation did a good job in lifting me out of my funk after the election - I'm not completely out, but much better than I was. I left a red state (MO) in 2017 in response to the freakish MAGA wave and moved to CA where I felt safer socially and politically, and where I figured my healthcare needs would not be threatened. Recent events have me scared, irritated, and angry, but I am also tired and disillusioned with so many Americans for not only allowing this to happen, but even more, WANTING it to happen. I know there are good, clear thinking folk still out there - this salon is proof of that - yet I'm wondering how much more fight I have in me. Still in the ring, but I feel pretty beat up at this point. Keep up the good work.
We understand. We are all tired of fighting. ❤
Thank you gentlemen for saying what you said. It makes me feel better about what happened with the election. And it has given me a new hope about what we as a community needs to do.
thank you guys, this is just what I needed, some tipsy daddies talking shit about that orange buffoon!
😂
He got almost exactly the same votes this time as in 2020, I don't think anything he does will ever turn his cult against him. We have community in those red states, I'm a trans man in Wyoming, and I am currently using those welfare resources to go to school so that I can escape this state.
21:45 THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING!!!! How dare people not stand up for the cultures they borrow from?? It’s fucking disgusting.
It's a scary thing, and I don't know what to do. Thanks for this. I'm trans, pan, and very passing, and have been for years. I started my transition is 2004 when I was 18, and though today no one would know if I didn't say...I mean I'm even married. Being passing, pan, kink, poly....it's weird and scary as I can blend in if I want, and there's this terrifying balance of not knowing how to be, do I out myself and risk not just myself, but my family? My wife is fully supporting, and also bi, and female which being female is just a risk. How do I support, speak out, and be, without coming out publicly as trans? I'm really trying to figure this out. Boycott? Sure! On board. Unfriend the fascist? Absolutely! But what else? How do I support, fight, speak out, and protect? It's a struggle right now, and I just don't know.
That's tricky, Evil Angler. Being a body in a crowd though is a good way to avoid coming out. You're just a person who can plausibly deny their queerness for their wife's right to abortion, for example.
But what I have found moves the needle most? Is physically ringing up friends to attend events/rallies. Talking to family who disagree about what their disention means for you. And talk to people in other minorities who don't realise what's on the line.
Greta Thunberg only brought the climate to the public consciousness because she was present at a protest. Is it risky?? Absolutely. But so is living in denial.
As a Gen-Z Queer doing everything I can (studying Queer stuff academically and with a national organization for gun violence prevention), Please mobilize us, I trust and listen to yall. Our generation is too fractured to have any one voice standing out, so we’ll need a ton of smaller movements working together
Thanks for the big hug to the brain, heart and soul.
It's now 1.5 months past the election: Your FIRE and perspectives through lived experiences and knowledge of history are truly appreciated here. I personally loved the format and how unfiltered everything was - watched all the way through, even rewinding several parts. Thank you for everything you all have done and continue to do. Deep condolences to all who have been lost and will be lost fighting. :(
We continue to fight! To lay down in defeat is to risk never getting back up again, and so we fight to live!
Sending y'all all my love from NZ. I'm scared - both for my friends in the states & also for the knock-on effect on the rest of the world. Thank you for your words - it's always good to hear from the old-guard.
This week a friend suggested to me that I read 'Stone Butch Blues' by Leslie Feinberg. I've now read it and I'm still processing (there's a lot to process) - but the thing that struck me was that even though things are objectively so much better now (night and day) than what ze describes in hir novel, so much is still relatable. I still see myself in hir story, even though I have never lived through a fraction of the violence ze lived through.
I'll say this as a high school teacher - our kids are great and far less isolated than we were, even my time (I was a teen in the early 2000s). More sure of who they are and where they stand. But they need our love and support - shit is still hard out there for them and it's about to get harder.
Gents, this is exactly what I needed today. Thank you so much!!
Happy to help!
the US is so polarized it’s awful. I only have ever registered Independent/non-affiliated, however I used to say there may be some unusual circumstance I could vote Republican and maybe I would but very unlikely. I’ve never voted anything but Democrat. In OR now I need to register as I have less voting options in the primary as non-affiliated. The people that vote for Trump are either blissfully ignorant or malicious and there is not much of an in between. In 2016 they had an excuse, now they have absolutely no excuse and what they do will be worse.
Rank choice voting was turned down in many areas including OR. Why? We have maybe about 2/3 Democratic votes generally. If you do rank choice sure it gives the first looser some more leverage, but when you have 2 choices that is ridiculous! Why? The dems in OR don’t want it apparently? They want the monopoly? I don’t know.
Great discussion! Yes, what do we do....keep those ideas coming...track the money, see where it leads you...
Absolutely spot-on. More please!
Thank you for this episode. I could only watch about one minute. I am mentally crushed after the results and have turned off all media and news. I will watch it after my mind calms down. Huge fan of your show. 62 white male from Phoenix AZ.
Keep the episodes coming. I wish your show was available when I was growing up. Would it help me a lot.
You guys are so right 👍 my God. You took every word out of my mouth. Thank you
You are so welcome
I so needed this .. thank you!!!
You are so welcome!
Yes. San Diego's bar is that way. And most folks I know absolutely do not go. But too many still do.
I feel like we need a list of places not to go to for outsiders….
Any idea which bar it is? Haven't heard of many leather bars in SD and was gonna try and find some so I want to avoid it at all costs 👍🏽
@@bennygotacookie8036Eagje
@@graylinthornton6299Ah, this is a sad story! I grew up in San Diego and get homesick for the old bars and the fun I had there. I wonder if that owner is someone I used to know…? 🤔 Eagle used to be pretty low key, back in the early days.
Anyway. F Cheeto.
More more more. I don't have a circle anymore, so you gentlemen are my outlet for hearing gay male voices speak intelligently about what's around them. I didn't have anyone to commiserate the election with, and this felt good. I hope you are never too busy to continue doing this. This salon is important.
As a transgender man from Canada, thank you. Where I live, in Alberta, the government here seems hard pressed to copt the states and I and I am so scared. I am terrified.
I have yet to get my name changed. I have yet to get any surgeries. I have yet to do anything except being on hormore replacement therapy and I am scared that will be taken away as well.
I am 24 years old but i fear for my siblings, my family, and this younger generation that the right i have enjoyed for my whole life will suddenly be stripped away because of a majority that I did not vote for ends up in power.
So I appreciate you folks taking the time, seemingly unedited, to discuss your thoughts on the topic. Because the place I live seems to want to copy the policies and what most likely will come to pass down there.
Thank you for spreading awareness.
Thank you for sharing your opinions.
And I apologize for any spelling errors or grammatical errors. i have yet to be completely sober since all of this 🤣
As someone who live in (upstate) New York, it doesn't even feel safe here sometimes. Looking at the counties map for the election i think the main reason we were still blue was because NYC was pulling its weight. Even out in the other cities like Albany and Buffalo they were such a pale blue it was frankly mortifying. The area where live, there are so many Trump signs that when i did see a Kamala sign it was a novelty. I think most of the men that i know in my life voted for Trump, and some of them I'm not really in a position to distance myself from. Even our ballot proposal, that we still won, that expanded protections against discrimination from gender, sexuality, religion, race, and even whether someone got an abortion or not; where i am there were far more "vote no in defense of 'girl's sports'" than to urge us to "vote yes" [i even saw one that was basically just "immigrants shouldn't have rights", like holy shit]. I was already embarrassed by my area but seeing that map i am utterly ashamed of this whole state, outside of NYC [and this one random deep blue county that i don't even remember what it was called].
Thank you! I was feeling really down about everything. Your video just restored my hope in other people.
Genuinely, prefer how open and honest you all were. No filters. It's okay to say something in the moment and disagree with what you said later on. I feel bad for the over apologizing. As someone with a very bad anxiety disorder who over apologizes. What was said needed to be said. Even if I don't fully agree on some things, IE moving. I'm in a deep south and deeply red state. I cannot move I'm disabled and on disability. My friends and me are all lgbtqia+ they can't help me either. My hands are tied. I'm afraid to be forgotten about, because I'm disabled.
Thank You for your candor
Watching this from the european/german view, thank you for letting us participate in your feelings.
This was very cathartic and inspiring to watch, I really do enjoy the occasional off-the-cuff style salon from you guys and I’m pleased to hear you’ll be doing more.
As a mostly closeted gay trans guy in Texas whose hoping to transition soon I’m…. 😐🙃 I hate it here but I only make like $9/hr. I can’t afford to move anywhere. I can barely afford to live in an RV here with just me and my cats.
I will say that I’ve never been more grateful to have managed to get a hysterectomy this summer though.
Gay leadership needs to come out against political prisoners.
I love hearing you all talk about stuff like this. As a queer person in their 20s I always find it so enlightening to hear what your generation's perspective is on these things. That being said I have to disagree with the bit about Chappell Roan! She's not saying "it's both sides" in a centrist way. She's saying it from the perspective of the left-- correctly identifying that not even the democrats have our backs on several issues, namely their complicity on israel/palestine. (which btw, Taylor Swift is a billionaire who has also said nothing about palestine.) idk if you saw too, Kamala's wishy washy answer on trans healthcare during that interview. "we should follow the law." like... jeez. Of course voting for her was the right decision, but don't you think we should be demanding better representation than this? If we can't hold the democrats accountable to actually represent our views, the overton window is just going to keep moving rightward.
Anywho, I appreciate y'all! Thanks for the great podcast!
Thank you gentlemen, I love watching On Guard. I am not involved in any leather or kink communities, just my local bear group and one in Idaho called the Cubs. That being said I have really enjoyed watching you guys because I get educated and entertained all at the same time. I live and was born in Utah, I am Atheist, gay and work in construction...need I say more about what I endure on the daily, let alone what is to come. Mr. Christopher got it right, it's all about the money. Our entire government is owned buy the rich, elite and Christians and has for well over a century, we live in the United corporations of America, an oligarchy. This was going to happen no matter how anyone voted because that was the plan. Left wing or right wing, both exist on the same bird. As you can see I am a bit opinionated, my family think I'm crazy and stupid, perhaps I am, but I've been telling them this was going to happen since I was a teenager living in the Regan regime, and here we are. When you live as a gay Atheist among LDS you learn to read between the lines and see that people are what they do, not what they say. Thanks again for being voices worth hearing, I look forward to the next.
Thank you
It not just the us the world is feeling this as well.
I love you guys so much! I was excited to see this video notification. It’s like my therapy to just listen to you guys
Hi from the UK
Great episode.
You guys should definitely try to get some activism going there and if you need a younger person heading it up, why not Amp? I'm sure he's equally as fired up about this as you are.
And regarding places like Florida and spending in LGBTQ owned businesses - could there not be a listings website started that could list these businesses in these various states? And such a website would need to be made high profile/listed all over the place, in bars, at events, across various social media channels.
17:10 One thing that really struck me about the election night victory speech, was that they played the song "Y.M.C.A." at some point. I had this pavalovian dog type of response, where I thought, the disconnect here is concerning! What do they think this song means to them and what type of cultural erasure may be coming? 20:10 Ah, I see this was mentioned!
Weird isn’t it!?! Nothing makes sense anymore
How could they not see the hate? I believe they did but when one shares the same prejudices, what could you expect?
Get into some good trouble, we all need to step up. Even if we have been fighting all our lives, now is not the time to stop. And I say this as a cis white queer European, the US is not alone in voting for populist / fascist candidates. Yes: absolutely take time to rest, grieve, rage. But then we have to keep showing up, keep voting, keep protesting, keep donating, keep calling out and keep taking care of our communities.
Graylyn, we need a grassroots organization. That type of active his work is way too large for a small group of people and we are talking about a national impossible international level. We need a grassroots organization that can help focus direct and do the labor work. And that includes all four and myself which I have already started.
Lots of good discussion from everybody as ever
Hey Race knowing our passion about all of this, I’m sure you were the one that really instigated this and I wanna thank you from the bottom of my heart. I remember months before the election you put something down on your page about getting out there and doing some Service work for Kamala Harris. Well I signed up for that and I did some service work. I worked hard on that I really wanted this to happen. And thank you for that inspiration that was incredible. You made a difference second thing is I am I’m so shocked to. The morning before the election, I was listening to NPR radio, and they had all of these interviews of all of these staunch right wing women that we’re voting for, Kamala iPad on my bed. Oh my goodness we have this in the bag I need the black community was going to come out and vote for her 85 to 90% dead and I knew women were going to do this too because of the whole abortion issue with a lot of them did. But Trump has something under his for sod right now if you don’t think he didn’t go after young uneducated men for no reason then I think we all need to think again. He’s out to rebuild his parties created, and he’s going to use those young men to do it. He also won after the Latinos because he knows the Latinos are diehard Catholics and how they feel about abortion he played the smart I think we both have to agree with that but what I have done is I got back online I read about project 2025. I looked at a lot of the laws and regulations that we currently have in state. And now I’m looking at what are we actually going to do OK we don’t have to presidency we don’t have a Congress we don’t have the Senate and Trump has illegally set the Supreme Court in his direction. So what we have here really is it is the government against the people we cannot allow him to divide us again as a country we have to come together. We have to learn how to look past our differences, except one another as Americans, and take care of own. The government is not on our side and they are going to go everything out of their way to destroy GLBTQ people. I was a gay activist for 35 years probably not unlike you. Fortunately, you were living in a blue Paul unfortunately, I am living in a red bubble. So as far as I’m concerned, I am now getting involved with the Missouri democratic party and I am going to be pushing some shit and then it taste great great episode thank you so much rice do you do such good work for our community? I really do appreciate it. FYI I saw a couple of my friends in the book Kink Is that was really cool. Hoping to make the conversation on the 20th I know you’re going to be there and I would be so great just to say hello and take care of yourself and thanks again for all you do😊
This is the time to go out in force with local elections. If the republicans are truly in favor of small government, then lets get involved in our state elections. Which means putting forth a LGBTQ+ leather and kink friendly candidates for local government. Even the local school board, local sheriff, local coroner if that's an elected position. Challenge the status quo. Flood the ballots locally. Flood city councils, if things come up on local ballots, dont just turn out to vote every 4 years. Turn out to vote EVERY time. If there's a recall election, turn up and turn out. If there are local town hall meetings, turn up and turn out. In FORCE. Speak up for your rights and your beliefs and everything that you hold dear. Make your noise so loud that they have no choice but to hear you. They may not LISTEN to you, but by gods be HEARD.
Indeed talk the walk! Money where your mouth is. I understand that you are tired to fight, but (just an idea) can you be the mentors, the guru's for the younger gay generation. They aren't (proper & corrected) educated. I'm learning so much from you We need gay history teachers! You are our examples. IA few months ago I started with painting (inspiration mondriaan) but I use different colours (pink). I'm bi leaning more to men. You gave me a reason to be more vocal about the 🏳🌈🏳rights. + you gave me a 🏳🌈goal & 🏳🌈vision to have. Friends indeed be angry & vocal. We as younger 🏳🌈🏳⚧generation need you(r) inspiration!
We will try.
Excellent video gentlemen. Please keep these coming! Yes, we made way for a very spoiled ,vacuous younger queer community. It’s really interesting because I brought up our generation and the act up movement in regards to the fentanyl crisis. There are all these sad videos of parents who lost children online to fentanyl poisoning. Yet not one of them is angry. I explained to them that all their stories on RUclips and tears equal nothing. And that they should use the, gay act up rebellion template. To create some political action. I think this will actually be really great for the queer community the younger generation and the jaded exhausted older generation. Will actually come together and get their priorities balanced. I think these sons suite social norms are both in genuine and ineffective.so thank you for addressing that fact because my age. I always say I would rather be respected than liked.
I thoroughly appreciated the whole conversation, all the thoughts and demands and foreboding predictions from all of you. This election result forced me to recognize what we have become. Our national character is now quite clear, regrettably. More than half of us just do not care about the welfare of others as long as we are comfortable and secure, and I am flabbergasted that white women to a great extent have fallen into that mindset. My usual sign-off is Peace, but I am reminded now that one definition of peace is total dominance. So, Toodle-Ooh … ?
Dem in Kern County one of the first things I did was to look for countries offering political asylum.
You guys are so lucky to have each other. Sure is hard to transcend the come.
Thank you for this. Resist!
Please link the red state vs blue state article.
For your information: I' m European and I can only speak for myself: I am not "terrified", I am disgusted.
Which leather bar in San Diego is owned by a Trump supporter? I didn't know that and do not want to give it my dollars.
Education and intelligence are two different things. And one must always allow an open mind, must always know there are things they don’t know.
New subby here! Enjoyed the vid guys.
Thank you for this video. It's great to have your takes on the result of the election. You mentioned so much of what I've been thinking: I'm also shellshocked as Race said, and I can't help but think that those who voted for Trump are racist, anti-LGBTQ+, anti-women's rights, etc. This situation is so sad. My hope is that those who oppose the government will find ways to counter the damages they may try to cause.
More Please - Needed this
52:38 It’s such an unpopular opinion, but I don’t disagree.
CA also takes in out of state homeless.
Kris: "We are tired of effing fighting" @42:26
We hear you. As an under 30 year old lesbian, I agree with you and promise to fight for the freedoms your generation fought for. I live in Australia and we are getting more and more rhetorical and conservative in no small part because of Trump's success. But we aren't going down without a fight. I personally refuse. What's that Hamilton quote? If you stand for nothing, Burr. What do you fight for?
I’m getting Matachine vibes from you guys.
Thank you for this special episode♡ I'd take it easy on the third party voters personally, I know a lot of Palestinian siblings who couldn't stomach it and still came out to vote anyway OR swapped their votes if they lived in a swing state. Also, those who have ranked choice and chose a 3rd party for first choice and dems for second choice I don't believe are complicit. In any case, it's nice to be in community w everyone - virtually or otherwise♡ This tragedy is a nice reminder that *we* are all we've got♡
As a trans man from Italy a lot of people also lgbtq+ voted for far right reasoning "they wouldn't take away rights" and now that's happening and ia too late to say oops was wrong. I also struggle to understand why Kamala and not 3° party. Biden was supposed to help after Trump and things went really shit for the trans community and women. If they couldn't do anything when in power why vote them again? I'm curious about it because Italy is the same boat😢
And You believe republicans will be better for the trans community? 😮
@OnGuardCigarSalon absolutely not. I'm really worried about that. As a non US citizen just trying to understand a bigger picture because the whole situation doesn't look good 😢 things went worst because of Biden party or is the power system at fault and in this case a 3° party vote makes no sense. It is a devastating results also for us here
@diegomaco4245 sometimes things implemented take years. Trump set things up for the overturning of Roe v Wade, but it happened during Bidens presidency. So yes, things got worse under Biden, but mostly because of shit Trump set up. Don't get me wrong, Biden was also shitty, it's just that Trump is much, much worse. Unfortunately in the US they have two right wing parties to chose from, it's just that the republicans are far right. They also don't have preferential voting, so there is no point voting third party. This is an outsiders perspective, i am Australian but my son is autistic and has a special interest in world politics, especially in English speaking countries. (Just because politics in English speaking countries is easier to follow. He also has an interest in non English speaking countries, but he has access to less info)
This is going to be long, but worthwhile, I trust … I stumbled upon a passage that eerily applies to our current state of affairs, in a very hopeful way. The character is mulling over his own version of American society, what he calls “this sad game of think-alike” taking hold in 1965. “But the other vitality is still there, that rancorous, sardonic, wonderful insistence on the right to dissent, to question, to object, to raise holy hell and, in direst extremity, to laugh the self-appointed squad leaders off the face of the earth with great whoops of dirty disdainful glee. … Suppress friction, and a society runs down.” This is from a novel, A Deadly Shade of Gold, by John D. MacDonald, Chapter 16. (I am really late to the party in discovering him, but, criminy, what a writer!) Anyway, seems we’ve been here before, so bring on the friction with as much vitality as we can muster. Peace …
Thanks you
Which leather bar in San Diego is owned by a Trumper?
Someone needs to tell Cigar Pig Black folks are the reason rock n roll exists along with country. And what he said just after that Snow Tha Product been rapping bout for years. Haha
shared this at Wonkette
Thank You
I really appreciated your thoughts on responding to Trump’s reelection, especially the idea of boycotting companies that support him. I’m curious about your perspective on platforms like Twitter, which many LGBTQ+ folks, especially those in the sex work industry, rely on for community and income. For some, it’s essential for promoting their fan services, which might be their main source of income, while others value it as a platform to amplify their voices. At the end of the day, by using Twitter, we’re supporting Elon Musk, and by extension, Trump. I’d love to hear any thoughts on navigating these kinds of decisions, understanding that we all have to make choices that support our survival.
I'd love to entertain you and distract you from your frustration gladly....
I disown my son.
Comment to engagement
comment for the algorithm from europe! very thoughtprovoking discussion, it's always a pleasure listening in on you gents
The group discussion is a good example of the arrogance many voters attribute to the Democratic Party. The very first place your discussion went was to what's wrong with voters. If one truly believes in democracy the question ought to be what's wrong with the product we're offering that the voters didn't want to buy it? Harris was a candidate who never garnered a single primary vote. She offered few substantive policy proposals. She made remarkably little effort to sell her vision to anyone who didn't already share it. She ran against an unbelievably bad opponent but didn't make her own case. No amount of hating him was able to make her qualified. Democrats should be winning elections hands down, but they can't resist lecturing the voters on who they ought to vote for rather than listening to what the voters, you know the PEOPLE in this democracy, have in mind.
Wish you had your T-shirts off xx
Hi guys how can you disown a family member or a close friend if they voted for him isn’t the right to have privacy when you vote and did she ever include gays or transgender people in her speeches ,I don’t like either of them .please don’t separate your country again we don’t need another war between the north and south,put your guys in to his parliament and work from the inside.
Boy you are seriously off kilter. Both sides are NOT the same, wake up as you're part of the reason trump is now your supreme and stupid leader.
Apparently You didn’t watch because we explained this pretty clear.
No pride in genocide!! Both candidates were equally shitty.
booo youre part of the problem
@@ampdarts850you’re definitely part of the problem Palestinian Americans have the right not to vote for the administration that has been sending money over to isreal that has been slaughtering their families. humble yourself. They morally could not bring themselves to vote for her. So if they decided to not vote or fore independent they had every right and the democrats ran a bad campaign try reflecting on why it was such a landslide victory majority of Americans were not happy with how things were going
@@Brandon-el4bzexcept the democrats despite no being anti genocide were still pro humanitarian aid
Trump doesn't give a fuck
Congratz champs yall got trump that doesn't give a sh1t, good job...
@ congrats on pushing the voters away with a bad economy sending billions to other countries and social issues that turned off the majority of Americans where they felt that trump was the better choice
Choosing third party was choosing humanity.
boooooo you voted for trump!!
@@ampdarts850you’re an idiot
You have missed the point completely.
@@Gendergoblin123 I understand what you’re saying. Some people get it some people don’t.
No you and others like you contributed to allowing Trump to win
I have to worry about my possible death and those of my trans friends simply for us being trans
I really appreciated your thoughts on responding to Trump’s reelection, especially the idea of boycotting companies that support him. I’m curious about your perspective on platforms like Twitter, which many LGBTQ+ folks, especially those in the sex work industry, rely on for community and income. For some, it’s essential for promoting their fan services, which might be their main source of income, while others value it as a platform to amplify their voices. At the end of the day, by using Twitter, we’re supporting Elon Musk, and by extension, Trump. I’d love to hear any thoughts on navigating these kinds of decisions, understanding that we all have to make choices that support our survival.