Installed around 40 to 45 receptacles today. I used my Klein #1 square and the Wera #2 Philips. I firmly believe the square has less came out. And no need of downward pressure. The Philips requires measurable downward force in comparison to the square driver. The Wera #1 square simply has a smaller handle than my preference. I find the laser etching good out of the package but seems to get clogged with drywall dust and brass/metals pretty quick and still requires downward pressure. Not a big deal for one or two devices. But I do notice it when you install hundreds of devices. When I come across a deformed screw or one that doesn’t accept my #1 square and cams out the Philips the 1/4” flat to the rescue. At the end of the day I carry all of them in my MP2X at the moment. Between devices, fixtures and all the other stuff you come across, you need them all!
I'll throw in three cents here -- I think your note with the handles is valid. Some people's hands and how they move are going to fit the Wiha/Wera/Klein better, and Wera *definitely* has a slightly different 'style' to how it falls into the hand. So my suggestion there is to find somebody who has each of them and put your hands on them. Some people swear by ball-handle tools (ie, Vessel, Wera has a funky set too) Ask if you can use trade drivers for an hour so you can get a feel for it. Go buy a backup of a tip you 'can always use another one of,' or whatever. However, handles are *always* going to be very subjective, so I don't think they're a good evaluation criterion unless there's something objectively *wrong* with them. I will say that I think Wiha's anti-roll is better than Wera, but Klein has basically no anti-roll so eh. I think what really wows people with the Wiha is the laser-etched tip, and I don't think a cam-out test is where it shines. The point of the laser-etched tip is for fastener retention -- ie, how well does it hold on to a fastener in open-air. Tip fitment and how much downward force you can apply are the major factors in cam-out, and what really matters is how long into the tool's life you can consistently get fasteners to 'tight enough', as tip wear is going to directly affect fitment. Value is a *huge* factor, and I think that's really what Klein knocks out of the park. You're absolutely right that you can get six insulated drivers and a quality handle that will get *more* jobs done for half the price. However, counter-point to that would be my observation that many professionals appear to prefer to have dedicated drivers for their most-used sizes (P1, P2, S1, S2, whatever), so the Klein's value is perhaps more for someone starting out whose priorities might be more focused on maximizing the capabilities of their toolkit for the least amount of money, or someone who isn't necessarily using this all day every day for their job. One thing I will note as a flaw in your test here (at least from what I was able to tell) is that you compared the Klein's S1 to the Wiha/Wera P1 and Wera #1 combo. I think that's objectively not an accurate comparison. My understanding is that square drives *fundamentally* have *far* higher cam-out loads than Phillips, slotted, or even many combo drives. So, the real lesson of this video is two-fold, imo: "Use square drive" "Quality tools are worth the money -- you define what qualities those are. Don't 'buy into' the hype -- evaluate the hype and determine if it's justified for your needs." I've found that Wiha handles fit my hands/fingers and how they move best, and that's the most important factor to me. But if you handed me any of these drivers, I wouldn't think 'wow, this is cheap and doesn't feel like it can get the job done'.
Always appreciate the transparency. You are correct, certainly don't need all the fancy drivers. Most of the time I see something new and just want to try it out 🤷🏻♂️ I've had good results using the Wera slotted/phillips combo #2. I still feel like I'm cheating on Klein by using other drivers 🤦🏻♂️
I have found many Wera drivers for the same price as Kleins. I'm not sure "Fancy" is how I'd describe Wera. They are made in Czech Republic or Germany and are great drivers. Klein makes good stuff but their fit and finish is sometimes sloppy. I own both.
I think a sq/ flat combo is better but anything is better than PH2 or slotted by itself. I only see the klein double sided with a single double sided bit for $22 or the full 8pc kit for $50. They do sell the 3 pack of just bits for $20, but no handle I've had the red handle version of those klein cutters for a while now. I actually have 2 set's because I forgot i had already purchased a set🤦♂ They're pretty cool. I think knipex and maybe others make something similar but have an odd cutting curve as well as a nibbler on the tip. Can't remember what they are called exactly, but supposed to work better🤷♂ I'll have to get the model number for you so you can check them out they are called stepcut cabe shears. they have a 6-1/4" which would be similar in size to the kleins or a 9" version which has the nibbler thing
Yeah I've seen those. I liked to compactness of these. The wiha with the power button are cool too I think your right. The 3rd bit I must have bought separate
Wiha also makes the plus minus drivers, they call them Xeno drivers. Also Klein has their own version of the ECX driver but it’s not insulated, and I wasn’t impressed with the number 2 on EMT couplings.
Lets be honest... any screw driver from a reputable company is gunna do the job just fine... that said my favorites are the klein insulated flip and a ratcheting vessel quick change screwdriver. For my bits it's square/robertson whenever I can use it... but the real game changer is for Ph #2, instead I use a reduced ph 2, Typically named pr2. Man those bits fit so well... they bottom all the way out and just fit perfectly. They're typically used for drywall. Milwaukee makes one i like and same with vessel... but yeah milwaukee pr2 if u wanna try it... vessel bit is a little harder to find... but those were the first reduced bits I used...I began using them like 2 or 3 yrs ago and man, they r the best.
Installed around 40 to 45 receptacles today. I used my Klein #1 square and the Wera #2 Philips. I firmly believe the square has less came out. And no need of downward pressure. The Philips requires measurable downward force in comparison to the square driver. The Wera #1 square simply has a smaller handle than my preference. I find the laser etching good out of the package but seems to get clogged with drywall dust and brass/metals pretty quick and still requires downward pressure. Not a big deal for one or two devices. But I do notice it when you install hundreds of devices. When I come across a deformed screw or one that doesn’t accept my #1 square and cams out the Philips the 1/4” flat to the rescue. At the end of the day I carry all of them in my MP2X at the moment. Between devices, fixtures and all the other stuff you come across, you need them all!
do you use a driver to install the devices in the wall? i like using the offset wobble screwdrivers
I use square 1 usually or the phillips slotted combo my favorite is the #2 witte ph/sl slim vde
I'll throw in three cents here --
I think your note with the handles is valid. Some people's hands and how they move are going to fit the Wiha/Wera/Klein better, and Wera *definitely* has a slightly different 'style' to how it falls into the hand. So my suggestion there is to find somebody who has each of them and put your hands on them. Some people swear by ball-handle tools (ie, Vessel, Wera has a funky set too) Ask if you can use trade drivers for an hour so you can get a feel for it. Go buy a backup of a tip you 'can always use another one of,' or whatever. However, handles are *always* going to be very subjective, so I don't think they're a good evaluation criterion unless there's something objectively *wrong* with them. I will say that I think Wiha's anti-roll is better than Wera, but Klein has basically no anti-roll so eh.
I think what really wows people with the Wiha is the laser-etched tip, and I don't think a cam-out test is where it shines. The point of the laser-etched tip is for fastener retention -- ie, how well does it hold on to a fastener in open-air. Tip fitment and how much downward force you can apply are the major factors in cam-out, and what really matters is how long into the tool's life you can consistently get fasteners to 'tight enough', as tip wear is going to directly affect fitment.
Value is a *huge* factor, and I think that's really what Klein knocks out of the park. You're absolutely right that you can get six insulated drivers and a quality handle that will get *more* jobs done for half the price. However, counter-point to that would be my observation that many professionals appear to prefer to have dedicated drivers for their most-used sizes (P1, P2, S1, S2, whatever), so the Klein's value is perhaps more for someone starting out whose priorities might be more focused on maximizing the capabilities of their toolkit for the least amount of money, or someone who isn't necessarily using this all day every day for their job.
One thing I will note as a flaw in your test here (at least from what I was able to tell) is that you compared the Klein's S1 to the Wiha/Wera P1 and Wera #1 combo. I think that's objectively not an accurate comparison. My understanding is that square drives *fundamentally* have *far* higher cam-out loads than Phillips, slotted, or even many combo drives.
So, the real lesson of this video is two-fold, imo:
"Use square drive"
"Quality tools are worth the money -- you define what qualities those are. Don't 'buy into' the hype -- evaluate the hype and determine if it's justified for your needs."
I've found that Wiha handles fit my hands/fingers and how they move best, and that's the most important factor to me. But if you handed me any of these drivers, I wouldn't think 'wow, this is cheap and doesn't feel like it can get the job done'.
I really appreciate your detailed thoughts, and you are right - handles are subjective and cam-out isn't the only factor to consider!
Always appreciate the transparency. You are correct, certainly don't need all the fancy drivers. Most of the time I see something new and just want to try it out 🤷🏻♂️ I've had good results using the Wera slotted/phillips combo #2. I still feel like I'm cheating on Klein by using other drivers 🤦🏻♂️
Me too haha
I have found many Wera drivers for the same price as Kleins. I'm not sure "Fancy" is how I'd describe Wera. They are made in Czech Republic or Germany and are great drivers. Klein makes good stuff but their fit and finish is sometimes sloppy. I own both.
@plsreleasethekraken klein's quality seems to be diminishing with a few things
Had me looking for something different brands these aren't it
Good evening all!
Good evening! Hope you are having a good night.
I think a sq/ flat combo is better but anything is better than PH2 or slotted by itself.
I only see the klein double sided with a single double sided bit for $22 or the full 8pc kit for $50. They do sell the 3 pack of just bits for $20, but no handle
I've had the red handle version of those klein cutters for a while now. I actually have 2 set's because I forgot i had already purchased a set🤦♂ They're pretty cool.
I think knipex and maybe others make something similar but have an odd cutting curve as well as a nibbler on the tip. Can't remember what they are called exactly, but supposed to work better🤷♂
I'll have to get the model number for you so you can check them out
they are called stepcut cabe shears. they have a 6-1/4" which would be similar in size to the kleins or a 9" version which has the nibbler thing
Yeah I've seen those. I liked to compactness of these. The wiha with the power button are cool too
I think your right. The 3rd bit I must have bought separate
Wiha also makes the plus minus drivers, they call them Xeno drivers. Also Klein has their own version of the ECX driver but it’s not insulated, and I wasn’t impressed with the number 2 on EMT couplings.
@sparkydstoolboxtalk1024 the xeno drivers weren't going to ship until Friday so I held off.
Lets be honest... any screw driver from a reputable company is gunna do the job just fine... that said my favorites are the klein insulated flip and a ratcheting vessel quick change screwdriver. For my bits it's square/robertson whenever I can use it... but the real game changer is for Ph #2, instead I use a reduced ph 2, Typically named pr2. Man those bits fit so well... they bottom all the way out and just fit perfectly. They're typically used for drywall. Milwaukee makes one i like and same with vessel... but yeah milwaukee pr2 if u wanna try it... vessel bit is a little harder to find... but those were the first reduced bits I used...I began using them like 2 or 3 yrs ago and man, they r the best.
Sooo...your a fan of Klein tools...
Yeah lol but not for everything