I've used xtract for large flat areas, ONLY. It is a massive time saver, which as far as I can recall, isn't mentioned anywhere . & cheap paper, everywhere else to avoid destroying the xtract. this system works well for me, for Lazy Susans & Cutting Boards. Today, I discovered that xtract works well for me, sanding pen tubes down to their desired diameter. Which is for me easier than using a chisel.
So it sounds like use the mesh backed for flat wide surfaces where the entire disk sits on it, and the paper backed for thin flat or curved surfaces? Best of both worlds?
Yours is not the first video I've seen mentioning the mesh discs breaking down on anything besides flat surfaces. That steers me away from it, as rarely am I sanding only flat surfaces. I've been happy with festool's granat discs; they're readily available, not overly expensive and last long enough for me.
Thanks for the input -- as I said in the video, I do like the longevity of the Xtract -- nothing comes close to its lifespan, but only when sanding large flat areas. Thanks for watching!
My experience is different from yours although I haven't done a bunch of side-by-side experiments using both types of sandpaper on the same project. Yes, mesh backed breaks down but so does paper backed. Is it more or less? I *believe* it's at least not more but I don't have quantifiable data - just that I think I'm switching sandpaper less often. Maybe that's confirmation bias. I also believe I get better & faster sanding results using less sandpaper with the cubitron mesh paper. I know I get less clogging when sanding stuff like epoxy pours because I've had to swap between cubitron mesh and paper sandpaper grits in doing a couple of recent projects. I also get much better dust collection with the mesh & a 3M Xtract sander. That sander really takes advantage of the mesh because the pad has so many (36?) holes for the air to flow. A standard random orbital sander with their half-dozen holes might not be able to take advantage of the open flow of the mesh paper. I also use a sandpaper eraser when I'm doing a project if I see any build-up on the paper (any type) so if you're not doing that, you'll get less use out of the paper than you might otherwise. I notice too that you seem to show a bit of center oriented buildup on your paper - I used to get that when I would lean into the sander. When I got the 3M Xtract sander I changed my behavior and let the sander do the work with just enough pressure to keep the sander on the material and under control as I move it around. But, I don't do a lot of curved surface sanding with a normal 6" random orbital sander. For curves and tight places, I either hand sand or use a Milwaukee cordless detail orbital sander. That only has paper backed sanding paper available (unless I want to cut out pieces from cubitron mesh paper discs) and I know that those don't get the life I get out of the cubitron mesh discs. Again, not scientific because I haven't measured the area of comparable sanded parts so it's anecdotal at best (but then your review seems pretty anecdotal as well). At the end of the day, I appreciate the better dust collection and the easier sanding (I let the sander do the work without leaning into the work) that I get out of cubitron. I still use paper backed discs on my 5" sander but when I'm doing most projects I use my 6" 3M sander with cubitron mesh and I'm happy with the results. Am I optimized for cost per sheet? I don't know. But the price of my sandpaper is a fraction of the cost of the wood, my time, my lungs and the finishes I use. I'm too old to spend a lot of life minutes agonizing over whether I'm overpaying for sandpaper 😀
Thanks Jim - excellent observations. I do prefer the mesh sanding paper for epoxy - the dust collection is far superior. And I totally, I switch paper much less with the Xtract over any other paper I've used, as long as I stick to sanding flat surfaces. Just yesterday I sanded one 8x13x2 board and the Xtract was completely devoid of cubitron in the center - I have no idea why since the board had large chamfers vs round overs. Maybe I'll get a cordless sander for the round overs and edges. Thanks for watching!
There is no "perfect' sandpaper. However in most woodworking, large flat areas are the norm, and thus Xtract will likely outperform most papers. There are other variables at play, besides the paper, when sanding non-flat surfaces. For example, how flexible/soft is the sanding pad. A pad that doesn't conform to the surface at all, will create a pressure point that will cause paper to tear; and can also cause uneven wear due to high and low spots on the pad that may lead to failure. The advantage that good backed papers have, is that they are more tear resistant and more heat resistant. When sanding with mesh, the surface area that is actually in contact with the workpiece is significantly reduced (50% or more on most mesh papers). Therefore, all other things being equal, the mesh paper is experiencing at least double the friction at any given point... this can lead to higher heat, and much more structural damage when doing non-flat pieces or when not applying even pressure in a flat area. If you use mesh to sand board edges, or non-flat surfaces, you need to be very careful to reduce the pressure applied accordingly. For example, on the edge of a 3/4 board, the absolute maximum area you can be in contact with is approximately 5" x 3/4" = 3.75 sqin which is less than 20% off the ~20sqin when sanding a flat surface. This means you should be reducing the pressure applied by almost 80% when sanding an edge (assuming pressure and friction are linear relationships). Failure to do this will make any paper wear faster, but may be more damaging to a mesh paper due to the much smaller contact area.
I’ve followed your channel for several years now, and have always enjoyed your content. I never comment on videos. But I have to tell you that I found this content to be unusually aggressive to a fellow content creator. You may ultimately be correct and JKM did his testing on flat surfaces only and there are limitations to that data set. But IMO you could have called that out in a less direct way. This needlessly tries to tie your brand to his. Why do you need to put his photo on your video? content creators work their tails off so that lazy folks like myself can sit on a couch. No need to effectively beat each other up. Be better.
Hi Tom - thank you for the thoughtful comment. I think I made it clear in the video I was not blaming Jonathan or beating him up -- I praised is testing and the method. However, I did point out the limitations of the product and his testing strategy. I did consider emailing him in advance to make sure he was OK with a little ribbing, but I ran out of time. I will certainly consider your input moving forward!
I've used xtract for large flat areas, ONLY. It is a massive time saver, which as far as I can recall, isn't mentioned anywhere . & cheap paper, everywhere else to avoid destroying the xtract. this system works well for me, for Lazy Susans & Cutting Boards. Today, I discovered that xtract works well for me, sanding pen tubes down to their desired diameter. Which is for me easier than using a chisel.
Totally agree - I'm headed that way. Thanks for watching!
So it sounds like use the mesh backed for flat wide surfaces where the entire disk sits on it, and the paper backed for thin flat or curved surfaces? Best of both worlds?
That's what I'm thinking!
Yours is not the first video I've seen mentioning the mesh discs breaking down on anything besides flat surfaces. That steers me away from it, as rarely am I sanding only flat surfaces. I've been happy with festool's granat discs; they're readily available, not overly expensive and last long enough for me.
Thanks for the input -- as I said in the video, I do like the longevity of the Xtract -- nothing comes close to its lifespan, but only when sanding large flat areas. Thanks for watching!
My experience is different from yours although I haven't done a bunch of side-by-side experiments using both types of sandpaper on the same project. Yes, mesh backed breaks down but so does paper backed. Is it more or less? I *believe* it's at least not more but I don't have quantifiable data - just that I think I'm switching sandpaper less often. Maybe that's confirmation bias. I also believe I get better & faster sanding results using less sandpaper with the cubitron mesh paper. I know I get less clogging when sanding stuff like epoxy pours because I've had to swap between cubitron mesh and paper sandpaper grits in doing a couple of recent projects. I also get much better dust collection with the mesh & a 3M Xtract sander. That sander really takes advantage of the mesh because the pad has so many (36?) holes for the air to flow. A standard random orbital sander with their half-dozen holes might not be able to take advantage of the open flow of the mesh paper. I also use a sandpaper eraser when I'm doing a project if I see any build-up on the paper (any type) so if you're not doing that, you'll get less use out of the paper than you might otherwise. I notice too that you seem to show a bit of center oriented buildup on your paper - I used to get that when I would lean into the sander. When I got the 3M Xtract sander I changed my behavior and let the sander do the work with just enough pressure to keep the sander on the material and under control as I move it around.
But, I don't do a lot of curved surface sanding with a normal 6" random orbital sander. For curves and tight places, I either hand sand or use a Milwaukee cordless detail orbital sander. That only has paper backed sanding paper available (unless I want to cut out pieces from cubitron mesh paper discs) and I know that those don't get the life I get out of the cubitron mesh discs. Again, not scientific because I haven't measured the area of comparable sanded parts so it's anecdotal at best (but then your review seems pretty anecdotal as well).
At the end of the day, I appreciate the better dust collection and the easier sanding (I let the sander do the work without leaning into the work) that I get out of cubitron. I still use paper backed discs on my 5" sander but when I'm doing most projects I use my 6" 3M sander with cubitron mesh and I'm happy with the results. Am I optimized for cost per sheet? I don't know. But the price of my sandpaper is a fraction of the cost of the wood, my time, my lungs and the finishes I use. I'm too old to spend a lot of life minutes agonizing over whether I'm overpaying for sandpaper 😀
Thanks Jim - excellent observations. I do prefer the mesh sanding paper for epoxy - the dust collection is far superior. And I totally, I switch paper much less with the Xtract over any other paper I've used, as long as I stick to sanding flat surfaces. Just yesterday I sanded one 8x13x2 board and the Xtract was completely devoid of cubitron in the center - I have no idea why since the board had large chamfers vs round overs. Maybe I'll get a cordless sander for the round overs and edges. Thanks for watching!
There is no "perfect' sandpaper. However in most woodworking, large flat areas are the norm, and thus Xtract will likely outperform most papers.
There are other variables at play, besides the paper, when sanding non-flat surfaces. For example, how flexible/soft is the sanding pad. A pad that doesn't conform to the surface at all, will create a pressure point that will cause paper to tear; and can also cause uneven wear due to high and low spots on the pad that may lead to failure.
The advantage that good backed papers have, is that they are more tear resistant and more heat resistant. When sanding with mesh, the surface area that is actually in contact with the workpiece is significantly reduced (50% or more on most mesh papers). Therefore, all other things being equal, the mesh paper is experiencing at least double the friction at any given point... this can lead to higher heat, and much more structural damage when doing non-flat pieces or when not applying even pressure in a flat area.
If you use mesh to sand board edges, or non-flat surfaces, you need to be very careful to reduce the pressure applied accordingly. For example, on the edge of a 3/4 board, the absolute maximum area you can be in contact with is approximately 5" x 3/4" = 3.75 sqin which is less than 20% off the ~20sqin when sanding a flat surface. This means you should be reducing the pressure applied by almost 80% when sanding an edge (assuming pressure and friction are linear relationships). Failure to do this will make any paper wear faster, but may be more damaging to a mesh paper due to the much smaller contact area.
Thanks Joseph - great suggestions!
I’ve followed your channel for several years now, and have always enjoyed your content. I never comment on videos. But I have to tell you that I found this content to be unusually aggressive to a fellow content creator. You may ultimately be correct and JKM did his testing on flat surfaces only and there are limitations to that data set. But IMO you could have called that out in a less direct way. This needlessly tries to tie your brand to his. Why do you need to put his photo on your video? content creators work their tails off so that lazy folks like myself can sit on a couch. No need to effectively beat each other up. Be better.
Hi Tom - thank you for the thoughtful comment. I think I made it clear in the video I was not blaming Jonathan or beating him up -- I praised is testing and the method. However, I did point out the limitations of the product and his testing strategy. I did consider emailing him in advance to make sure he was OK with a little ribbing, but I ran out of time. I will certainly consider your input moving forward!