Another grip that I learned while fighting in the SCA is to grip the handle with your thumb and index finger, and then loosely wrap the other fingers around the handle; this allows the handle to pivot at those two fingers. As you make a strike, as the sword is just about to make contact, tighten the other three fingers, giving a little bit more power to the hit.
As a regular participant in this sport, I would like to point out that many fighters are very strong, and simply powering through your guard is a common tactic. That being said, a grip like that will fairly often equal a broken thumb. The hammer grip is much safer, and is just as accurate with a little practice.
Please observe Magnus' sword hand closely in all other tutorials. He is very, very rarely using this "vertical thumb" technique. He nearly always uses the "hammer holding" technique. That's because of two things: 1) Humans grab this way to hold things securely 2) You don't get injured, parrying a hard blow
The way you advocate for holding the sword is all well and fine for infantry sabres (if they're light enough), and some of them even have a groove where you can place your thumb. The reason for this is to aid edge alignment, but you can't cut very powerfully like that, as you'll sprain your thumb. You call it the handshake grip, but the handshake grip has the thumb around the handle as well (that's how you shake hands, after all). (Cont.)...
@Gilmaris I think it might be a little helpful to point out that he is using that style for a game, not for steel on steel combat. Dagorhir is a battle game designed for safety and for fun. To better accommodate the slow and clumsy feel of a foam sword, he uses this technique to increase his control and speed.
A major thing with that is that full metal helmets that are historically accurate is kinda expensive, leather helmets are also fairly expensive too. It's just easier to broaden the base of players by having expectations that a person won't hit someone in the head. Headshots aren't all that common anyway, so helmets seem kinda overkill.
The thumb is an easy bone to shatter, and the force of punchblocking a red (two-handed sword) with your thumb like that could break it. People use a modified grip similar to your dominant hand of a golf club. You'll make a V inbetween your index and thumb fingers that is pointing towards you.
at :44, you would go opposite of a sword. you would want your hand on a swivel, and while pulled back, you would want your spear slightly tilted upward.
Please note, I didn't mean to say that his wrap around strike would be ineffective, merely that his standard straight attacks will be less definitive due to the wrist motion. He's not drawing or pushing the blade so that technique is simply for boffer fights and generally questionable.
This grip may be good for what you're doing, but anyone looking at these instructions to apply to other styles (SCA, HMB, WMA, etc) keep in mind the greater mass of the weapons you use. If you take an oncoming blow on the edge of that sword (don't start the edge-flat debate. It's completely situational) all the force will be put straight into that thumb. But multiplied due to the leverage. I've found (and keep in mind, grips are transitional, if you commit yourself to any one grip, you'll have to forgo a whole bunch of strikes) the best to be a firm grip with the fore and middle fingers and thumb (firm, no deathgrip) around where you feel you have the best compromise between control and lessened hand shock (based on experimenting with that sword by going at the pell), and a looser grip with the ring and little fingers. During whichever strike (again, experiment, some will require more than others, some, like a crosscut may be statically gripped) you reverse this. Become firm with your little and ring fingers, looser with your fore and middle fingers. It takes some practice (head start as a guitarist mwahaha) but you can fight with the German Longsword leverage style, in one hand (fore and middle fingers become the "right hand", ring and little fingers the "left"). A word of warning, though, it's far less stable than its two handed counterpart, so until you've built your forearms to be like hams, and you learn to cut "through" the opponent (like punching "through" an opponent) you do notice (when you're doing pell work) your strikes bouncing back once or twice. Just a control thing that comes with time.
You again, I hope you're aware that swords function a bit different from Rattan sticks...which function different to foam weapons. It's hilariously ironic just how arrogant and short sighted you've proven to be within this comment section. Accusing others of elitism and then spouting elitism.
(...cont.) Now, the viking sword can be used with the handshake grip as well, by letting the pommel slide along the palm, but the way you do the strongest cuts with a viking sword IS with the hammer grip (the hilts of viking swords were exactly one fist long, so your hand (and subsequently the wrist) would be effectively locked between the top hjalt and the bottom hjalt. Unless you let the pommel slide, using the wrist will cause the pommel to bite into your wrist, which is VERY painful. (Cont.)
i think it depends on why you use a shield, i am happy to fight with and without a shield, a big problem with a shield though is the fact that it can block the users sight and also hinder them if they try to attack from certain angles.
This makes much more sense. Not wrapping your tumb around the handle fully makes it much easier to knock/strip the weapon from your hand. Also: foam weapons, why avoid the one hit kill that would be the cranium?
If you're not holding it tightly, and only Parry strikes, yeah it'll get knocked out of your hand. But if you deflect his strikes instead of meet them, you can grip it looser. I think this would apply better to live blades, as foam tends to stick... But I can't imagine the difference is too much
(...cont.) With disc-pommeled swords, however, you simply don't have the choice: you HAVE to use the hammer grip, and cannot use your wrist to help power the cut. But yeah, the way the sword is held in this video was only really done with 18th/19th century infantry sabres. You could try with cavalry sabres, too, if you're strong enough. But unless it's a very light blade, or you're very, very strong, it's not going to be very comfortable.
but if you're committed to it, you can try switching your sword backwards (blade facing you) and throwing the wrap. however a good fighter will see it coming and hit you before you can even throw it.
(...cont.) Also, you can't put your thumb along the grip on any sword with a quillon, because there's no room for it. To finger the quillon with one's THUMB is unheard of, and the hand is always placed right next to the quillon. You have an EXTREMELY long grip on that foam sword, which is never seen in a single-hander. Also, the hammer grip is not a bad grip. For some swords, it is the only possible grip. Try a disc-pommeled talwar, for instance, or a viking sword. (Cont....)
That Wrap shot is what we in Aratari call, Light. and to the people using a single edge sword, it doesn't count because ur hitting with the other edge, which his non striking.
bear in mind, i dont mean this as to cheapen or attack the sport. it just makes more sense to me to wear a brain bucket to prevent as much injury as possible.
Wraps are good and all but their is way to many ways to jack up opposition who uses them. Strike at the sword arm,(High Guard) where your sword blocks your shield arm. ect. Also if you adjust your stance to shield leg back, wraps don't get through to your body but they expose your opponents shield leg.
Question turned up for me: Why do you hold the blade so far back on the pommel? It might be that I am used to longer blades (around 40 inches) where you really need to grip them further up, but maybe there is another reason behind it?
if your oponent hits your sword on the opposite side of your thumb hard enough, with a heavy weapon or something, you've got a pretty good chance of breaking your thumb, or at least hurting it
It depends on the fighting style. Magnus' is more technique than power, so he doesn't really have to worry about breaking any thumbs. I cannot fight with that grip, however because my thumb will come off right clean because of the way I swing.. So the term "to each his own" fits in here quite snug.
yeah, he's doing it wrong. For boffer fights it might work, but if he was actually fighting with any level of force he would injure himself immediately, and it stops proper weight and force tranfer as he is using far to much wrist. The wrist will give well before max force is transfered.
On re-reading my comment, it needs more explanation: If you get a hit against the "sword", which causes it to push against your thumb, you can strain a muscle or worse. A real sword would be held like the proverbial hammer. There is no other way, if you don't want to injure yourself within 5 Minutes.
Can you please tell me what the difference is between Dagorhir and Amtgard? If they are different, what are the key differences? Also, I've noticed in the class guide it says many classes can use different types of weapons. Is it legal to use two of the same type of weapon? Like two short swords? Or possibly an axe and a short sword? Thanks for your time! It's much appreciated.
Good instruction on wraps. I like to describe a wrap as throwing the sword behind the person, except that by holding on to it the centripetal force makes the sword came back around on its own. I find that if you don't tell people its a natural action they then to try to force the wrap with their bicep and forearm. p.s. I would remove useless comments made by idiots.
Have you guys done a tutorial on fighters with switched stances? I've noticed that switching your stance will really throw off sword and shield fighters.
This way of holding the sword would really injure the thumb, if you hold the sword the way he recommends. Also: in plate gloves, you really can't hold the sword like this. The plate doesn't allow this
but the guy with the kilt has his shield too near from him, that's why his attack allways hit him...i prefer improvisation, that's a better way to get out of a mess quickly =D
Personally, I get around the blatant lack of realism by thinking of it as chopping their head open, which would use a similar downward strike but is otherwise forbidden in most foam fighting.
i have a metal blunt and i realize soon after training with others that only real warriors of the Knightsgaurd practice with those (i have the bruises and scars to prove it)
I guess the idea is to hit them before they have time to do that. There's a good number of clips on youtube of people getting away with this in the SCA...I guess it would depend on the speed and skill level of you and your opponent...and a bit of luck. I guess their guard would also have an impact on how effective the technique is...and shield type could also make a dramatic difference. I guess however that demonstrations are often quite static.
I guess the idea is to hit them before they have time to do that. There's a good number of clips on youtube of people getting away with this in the SCA...I guess it would depend on the speed and skill level of you and your opponent...and a bit of luck. I guess their guard would also have an impact on how effective the technique is...and shield type could also make a dramatic difference. I guess however that demonstrations are often quite static.
Then why not enforce a rule where everyone has to wear head protection in a sport where it's pretty much gonna happen? For instance, paintballers HAVE to wear a facemask and airsofters HAVE to wear at least a pair of shooting glasses. Why would you take the field without proper safety equipment in a full-contact sport?
Then you come around with your second shot.. It's not like we all just hit each other once and hope to kill the other guy. Also, understand that the fighters in these videos have been fighting for close to a decade if not over, so I am quite sure they are aware of their capabilities as far as gripping the sword goes.
nice instructions. But (there is always a but) Your "fast" attack is way to fast, if you!d fight with a real sword. And your instrucions ar only for onehanded sworws, becaus you can`t hold a 1 1/2 handed sword like this ;) 5 stars
I better stop watching this videos before i learn more useless ways of fighting...pommel grip...whip sword attack..LARP...Live Action ROLE PLAYING..Keyword Roleplaying. If you fight like those guys you arent roleplaying !
Heavier combat, such as SCA employs a whip like motion. Just gotta make sure you land it with the COP. And there's so many grips, including the pommel. Different grips for different things. An offside pendulum strike to the ribs or armpit, for example, can pick up a whole lot more centrifugal force if you change your grip to be closer to the pommel. And before you say you don't need to hit hard - keep in mind HEMA twats sound like the ultimate scrublords. Sword fights can only be won if their rules apply. If not, it's not "real" sword fighting, so it doesn't matter that you lost.
Respectfully, all combat sports, may they be fencing, judo, boxing, Dag, SCA, Historical medieval tournaments, or anything else, begin as simulations for war, using techniques from war but with rules in place to protect people, but become over time, techniques develop to get around the rules. The wrap shot is a great example, as is exposing your back in judo, or pulling guard in Brazilian jiu Jitsu (I'm assuming you know these terms, I'll explain if necessary) Anyway, there is no real way to get around this fact, but if you dislike the sport of it, don't play and only do martial arts. The flaw with this is that you can't ever practice what you know, short of ... Well in this case, short of going to medieval war. Yes you can "anything goes" spar, but, this isn't true because you don't want to actually injure your training partner. These rules are in place, so you can compete, without having anyone get hurt.
+SerAlgernop BlitzKrieger It really is true though, you don't need to "hit hard" ...especially if it's to the detriment of proper edge-alignment or a good cutting motion. Furthermore it's faster to merely strike the target from the guard than to draw your weapon back for a 'hard' blow.... What you don't seem to understand is a lot of these striking forms...just aren't suitable for an actual sword but then again in these sporting activites (LARP, SCA.) you're not using a sword...or even trying to simulate the use of a sword, therefore it is understandable that there you would employ different techniques. That's the way it is for all things, each new set of rules brings with it a set of work around. Actually in HEMA (which is a gigantically varied and wide group of different activities, rules and competition.) a lot of competitions offer almost no rules....but each will often employ their own set of guidelines. In absolute full contact/knockdown...general rule is not thrusting with a few certain other kinds of blows restricted but it's almost completely open...where as thrusting is permitted often in lighter contact because of the emphasis on landing blows rather than knockdown. The reality is that in lighter contact competitions there's really no need to impair yourself by trying to intentionally hit really hard....and in full contact bashing people on the breastplate or the arms is for the most part a waste of time....
Another grip that I learned while fighting in the SCA is to grip the handle with your thumb and index finger, and then loosely wrap the other fingers around the handle; this allows the handle to pivot at those two fingers. As you make a strike, as the sword is just about to make contact, tighten the other three fingers, giving a little bit more power to the hit.
This video helped so much. Thanks for breaking down the wrap shots in particular
As a regular participant in this sport, I would like to point out that many fighters are very strong, and simply powering through your guard is a common tactic. That being said, a grip like that will fairly often equal a broken thumb. The hammer grip is much safer, and is just as accurate with a little practice.
Please observe Magnus' sword hand closely in all other tutorials.
He is very, very rarely using this "vertical thumb" technique.
He nearly always uses the "hammer holding" technique.
That's because of two things:
1) Humans grab this way to hold things securely
2) You don't get injured, parrying a hard blow
The way you advocate for holding the sword is all well and fine for infantry sabres (if they're light enough), and some of them even have a groove where you can place your thumb. The reason for this is to aid edge alignment, but you can't cut very powerfully like that, as you'll sprain your thumb. You call it the handshake grip, but the handshake grip has the thumb around the handle as well (that's how you shake hands, after all). (Cont.)...
If you block a strike with your thumb on the handle like that, and it slips out of your hand it can snap your thumb back.
@Gilmaris I think it might be a little helpful to point out that he is using that style for a game, not for steel on steel combat. Dagorhir is a battle game designed for safety and for fun. To better accommodate the slow and clumsy feel of a foam sword, he uses this technique to increase his control and speed.
A major thing with that is that full metal helmets that are historically accurate is kinda expensive, leather helmets are also fairly expensive too. It's just easier to broaden the base of players by having expectations that a person won't hit someone in the head. Headshots aren't all that common anyway, so helmets seem kinda overkill.
Consequences will never be the same...shhhh...no tears...only dreams now.
The thumb is an easy bone to shatter, and the force of punchblocking a red (two-handed sword) with your thumb like that could break it. People use a modified grip similar to your dominant hand of a golf club. You'll make a V inbetween your index and thumb fingers that is pointing towards you.
at :44, you would go opposite of a sword. you would want your hand on a swivel, and while pulled back, you would want your spear slightly tilted upward.
not everyone finds a firm grip the best for sword work, but i do agree that having your thumb like that can damage it
Please note, I didn't mean to say that his wrap around strike would be ineffective, merely that his standard straight attacks will be less definitive due to the wrist motion. He's not drawing or pushing the blade so that technique is simply for boffer fights and generally questionable.
good video man, thanks. I cant wait for my first larp event
This grip may be good for what you're doing, but anyone looking at these instructions to apply to other styles (SCA, HMB, WMA, etc) keep in mind the greater mass of the weapons you use. If you take an oncoming blow on the edge of that sword (don't start the edge-flat debate. It's completely situational) all the force will be put straight into that thumb. But multiplied due to the leverage.
I've found (and keep in mind, grips are transitional, if you commit yourself to any one grip, you'll have to forgo a whole bunch of strikes) the best to be a firm grip with the fore and middle fingers and thumb (firm, no deathgrip) around where you feel you have the best compromise between control and lessened hand shock (based on experimenting with that sword by going at the pell), and a looser grip with the ring and little fingers. During whichever strike (again, experiment, some will require more than others, some, like a crosscut may be statically gripped) you reverse this. Become firm with your little and ring fingers, looser with your fore and middle fingers. It takes some practice (head start as a guitarist mwahaha) but you can fight with the German Longsword leverage style, in one hand (fore and middle fingers become the "right hand", ring and little fingers the "left"). A word of warning, though, it's far less stable than its two handed counterpart, so until you've built your forearms to be like hams, and you learn to cut "through" the opponent (like punching "through" an opponent) you do notice (when you're doing pell work) your strikes bouncing back once or twice. Just a control thing that comes with time.
You again, I hope you're aware that swords function a bit different from Rattan sticks...which function different to foam weapons. It's hilariously ironic just how arrogant and short sighted you've proven to be within this comment section. Accusing others of elitism and then spouting elitism.
(...cont.) Now, the viking sword can be used with the handshake grip as well, by letting the pommel slide along the palm, but the way you do the strongest cuts with a viking sword IS with the hammer grip (the hilts of viking swords were exactly one fist long, so your hand (and subsequently the wrist) would be effectively locked between the top hjalt and the bottom hjalt. Unless you let the pommel slide, using the wrist will cause the pommel to bite into your wrist, which is VERY painful. (Cont.)
A golfer's grip is the one i use. I've tried those grips and it is tough on the index and thumb, especially the thumb.
Cool I'm ALWAYS!!! getting into stick fights with out shields Thanks!!!!!!!!!
thanks for the info, it will definitely come in handy :)
i think it depends on why you use a shield, i am happy to fight with and without a shield, a big problem with a shield though is the fact that it can block the users sight and also hinder them if they try to attack from certain angles.
puting your thumb along the top is a good way to break your thumb other then that its spot on
and you can use any weapon you want. if you can pick it up, you can use it.
This makes much more sense. Not wrapping your tumb around the handle fully makes it much easier to knock/strip the weapon from your hand. Also: foam weapons, why avoid the one hit kill that would be the cranium?
@mattyzdog that's why modified saber grips exist....do the following as above, but angle the thumb slightly
if your thumb isnt around the handle the sword can be easily knocked out of your hand
If you're not holding it tightly, and only Parry strikes, yeah it'll get knocked out of your hand. But if you deflect his strikes instead of meet them, you can grip it looser.
I think this would apply better to live blades, as foam tends to stick... But I can't imagine the difference is too much
(...cont.) With disc-pommeled swords, however, you simply don't have the choice: you HAVE to use the hammer grip, and cannot use your wrist to help power the cut.
But yeah, the way the sword is held in this video was only really done with 18th/19th century infantry sabres. You could try with cavalry sabres, too, if you're strong enough. But unless it's a very light blade, or you're very, very strong, it's not going to be very comfortable.
@IrNaLann Well, that would certainly explain it, thank you!
but if you're committed to it, you can try switching your sword backwards (blade facing you) and throwing the wrap. however a good fighter will see it coming and hit you before you can even throw it.
@mattyzdog and also makes it easier to disarm,which would be extremly easy with a steel sword
Holding the sword like that can break your thumb.
(...cont.) Also, you can't put your thumb along the grip on any sword with a quillon, because there's no room for it. To finger the quillon with one's THUMB is unheard of, and the hand is always placed right next to the quillon. You have an EXTREMELY long grip on that foam sword, which is never seen in a single-hander.
Also, the hammer grip is not a bad grip. For some swords, it is the only possible grip. Try a disc-pommeled talwar, for instance, or a viking sword. (Cont....)
i do have to mention that after his talk about proper grip he uses the "hammer grip" through almost the entire rest of the video
That Wrap shot is what we in Aratari call, Light. and to the people using a single edge sword, it doesn't count because ur hitting with the other edge, which his non striking.
bear in mind, i dont mean this as to cheapen or attack the sport. it just makes more sense to me to wear a brain bucket to prevent as much injury as possible.
Because hitting someone in the head can seriously injure them. Dagorhir puts safety and playability above realism.
if you are doing an underhand thrust, of course.
Wraps are good and all but their is way to many ways to jack up opposition who uses them. Strike at the sword arm,(High Guard) where your sword blocks your shield arm. ect. Also if you adjust your stance to shield leg back, wraps don't get through to your body but they expose your opponents shield leg.
And what the Aratari call "Light" shots, those with good honor still take.
Also, most of the shots are wrap shots so the thumb is experience no strain.
Question turned up for me: Why do you hold the blade so far back on the pommel? It might be that I am used to longer blades (around 40 inches) where you really need to grip them further up, but maybe there is another reason behind it?
if your oponent hits your sword on the opposite side of your thumb hard enough, with a heavy weapon or something, you've got a pretty good chance of breaking your thumb, or at least hurting it
Ah, I see. This is very helpful, thanks :)
it also depends on where the balance point is
It depends on the fighting style. Magnus' is more technique than power, so he doesn't really have to worry about breaking any thumbs. I cannot fight with that grip, however because my thumb will come off right clean because of the way I swing.. So the term "to each his own" fits in here quite snug.
yeah, he's doing it wrong. For boffer fights it might work, but if he was actually fighting with any level of force he would injure himself immediately, and it stops proper weight and force tranfer as he is using far to much wrist. The wrist will give well before max force is transfered.
On re-reading my comment, it needs more explanation:
If you get a hit against the "sword", which causes it to push against your thumb, you can strain a muscle or worse.
A real sword would be held like the proverbial hammer. There is no other way, if you don't want to injure yourself within 5 Minutes.
Can you please tell me what the difference is between Dagorhir and Amtgard? If they are different, what are the key differences? Also, I've noticed in the class guide it says many classes can use different types of weapons. Is it legal to use two of the same type of weapon? Like two short swords? Or possibly an axe and a short sword? Thanks for your time! It's much appreciated.
Do these foam swords hit off each other well or would wooden swords be better for realism
Good instruction on wraps. I like to describe a wrap as throwing the sword behind the person, except that by holding on to it the centripetal force makes the sword came back around on its own. I find that if you don't tell people its a natural action they then to try to force the wrap with their bicep and forearm.
p.s. I would remove useless comments made by idiots.
Have you guys done a tutorial on fighters with switched stances? I've noticed that switching your stance will really throw off sword and shield fighters.
Dagorhir doesn't have magic, allows grappling, and you can swing as hard as you can. Also, you can shield kick in dag.
This way of holding the sword would really injure the thumb, if you hold the sword the way he recommends.
Also: in plate gloves, you really can't hold the sword like this. The plate doesn't allow this
Or use metal blunt swords. If you get hit with a metal sword, you'll quickly learn how to not get hit.
but the guy with the kilt has his shield too near from him, that's why his attack allways hit him...i prefer improvisation, that's a better way to get out of a mess quickly =D
@TechnoSwordsmen Dummies are for technique and body mecahnics.
Personally, I get around the blatant lack of realism by thinking of it as chopping their head open, which would use a similar downward strike but is otherwise forbidden in most foam fighting.
I am wondering what he will do with a real sword... there are things that it is difficult to do with a heavy thing in the hands...
@EXIEtheMONSTER You've never taken Bushido have you?
@mattyzdog tighen your other digits?
I never knew the real way to hold a sword, but for some reason I naturally held my wooden sword I made like your supposed to... weird huh?
if your doing an underhand thrust
If you hold it properly, you won't break your thumb.
i have a metal blunt and i realize soon after training with others that only real warriors of the Knightsgaurd practice with those (i have the bruises and scars to prove it)
This does not make any sense, who would just stand there and not move his shield to deflect hits?
A good drill partner.
I guess the idea is to hit them before they have time to do that. There's a good number of clips on youtube of people getting away with this in the SCA...I guess it would depend on the speed and skill level of you and your opponent...and a bit of luck. I guess their guard would also have an impact on how effective the technique is...and shield type could also make a dramatic difference. I guess however that demonstrations are often quite static.
I guess the idea is to hit them before they have time to do that. There's a good number of clips on youtube of people getting away with this in the SCA...I guess it would depend on the speed and skill level of you and your opponent...and a bit of luck. I guess their guard would also have an impact on how effective the technique is...and shield type could also make a dramatic difference. I guess however that demonstrations are often quite static.
Then why not enforce a rule where everyone has to wear head protection in a sport where it's pretty much gonna happen?
For instance, paintballers HAVE to wear a facemask and airsofters HAVE to wear at least a pair of shooting glasses. Why would you take the field without proper safety equipment in a full-contact sport?
Then you come around with your second shot.. It's not like we all just hit each other once and hope to kill the other guy. Also, understand that the fighters in these videos have been fighting for close to a decade if not over, so I am quite sure they are aware of their capabilities as far as gripping the sword goes.
It's not LARP It's Dagorhir.
interesting... explain...
Also, it wouldn't even HURT the guy if a regular strike was thrown. So stop complaining.
And he could get disarmed by anyone who has studied long sword.
Ban the pommel grip...its just stupid !
if you say so
The guy had a shield. He would've blocked the attack. I said "THE GUY." Some people need to pay attention. Also, stop complaining.
then you don't do a wrap. and don't use a single sided sword. you're just limiting yourself.
nice instructions.
But (there is always a but) Your "fast" attack is way to fast, if you!d fight with a real sword.
And your instrucions ar only for onehanded sworws, becaus you can`t hold a 1 1/2 handed sword like this ;)
5 stars
This is why i hate fighting live action role play
3:15 that is the most retarded attack that would hardly even leave a scratch in real life.
those swords look crappy
I better stop watching this videos before i learn more useless ways of fighting...pommel grip...whip sword attack..LARP...Live Action ROLE PLAYING..Keyword Roleplaying. If you fight like those guys you arent roleplaying !
Heavier combat, such as SCA employs a whip like motion. Just gotta make sure you land it with the COP.
And there's so many grips, including the pommel. Different grips for different things. An offside pendulum strike to the ribs or armpit, for example, can pick up a whole lot more centrifugal force if you change your grip to be closer to the pommel.
And before you say you don't need to hit hard - keep in mind HEMA twats sound like the ultimate scrublords. Sword fights can only be won if their rules apply. If not, it's not "real" sword fighting, so it doesn't matter that you lost.
Respectfully, all combat sports, may they be fencing, judo, boxing, Dag, SCA, Historical medieval tournaments, or anything else, begin as simulations for war, using techniques from war but with rules in place to protect people, but become over time, techniques develop to get around the rules. The wrap shot is a great example, as is exposing your back in judo, or pulling guard in Brazilian jiu Jitsu (I'm assuming you know these terms, I'll explain if necessary)
Anyway, there is no real way to get around this fact, but if you dislike the sport of it, don't play and only do martial arts. The flaw with this is that you can't ever practice what you know, short of ... Well in this case, short of going to medieval war. Yes you can "anything goes" spar, but, this isn't true because you don't want to actually injure your training partner. These rules are in place, so you can compete, without having anyone get hurt.
+SerAlgernop BlitzKrieger It really is true though, you don't need to "hit hard" ...especially if it's to the detriment of proper edge-alignment or a good cutting motion. Furthermore it's faster to merely strike the target from the guard than to draw your weapon back for a 'hard' blow....
What you don't seem to understand is a lot of these striking forms...just aren't suitable for an actual sword but then again in these sporting activites (LARP, SCA.) you're not using a sword...or even trying to simulate the use of a sword, therefore it is understandable that there you would employ different techniques. That's the way it is for all things, each new set of rules brings with it a set of work around.
Actually in HEMA (which is a gigantically varied and wide group of different activities, rules and competition.) a lot of competitions offer almost no rules....but each will often employ their own set of guidelines. In absolute full contact/knockdown...general rule is not thrusting with a few certain other kinds of blows restricted but it's almost completely open...where as thrusting is permitted often in lighter contact because of the emphasis on landing blows rather than knockdown.
The reality is that in lighter contact competitions there's really no need to impair yourself by trying to intentionally hit really hard....and in full contact bashing people on the breastplate or the arms is for the most part a waste of time....
What the hell are you doing? Not one of your techniques is an accurate historical combat techniques! That is only ridiculous!
Stop complaining
if your doing an underhand thrust