I’m Italian and I lived for a year in L.A. when I was 22yrs old. Me and my other Italian friends were completely blown away by the fact that every single night you would find some college students so drunk they literally lied on the floor outside the club or pub, especially a lot of girls. We had been drinking since we were 14 yrs old and by the time we were 22 we all knew our limits and we would get drunk, sure, but never so utterly wasted as to lose our balance completely.
Frightening. Any body who gets blackout drunk in public becomes an easy target for crime, 'just' theft if you're lucky, violence or abuse if you're not. (Followed up by victim blaming, as if you getting drunk would excuse opportunistic violence.) I must still be a bit naive, because I'm surprised that a club would just let people pass out drunken right outside the door. I get it that they don't want to spend money to have their own little drunk tank, but here in Germany I would (and have in the past) call either the police or an emergency vehicle if I find somebody unresponsive.
Your way is what I seen in Germany as a young Soldier. The young Germans weren't the falling down drunk types at all. Us GI's had that market cornered. Germans don't mind some drinking, but they don't tolerate total intoxication and the bad behaviors that go along with it. They call a drunk a drunk, and there was a social stigma if you were that guy. Peace.
@wyomarine6341 Falling down from windows and Tevere bridges parapets seems to be the most common cause of death among young US tourists here in Rome. Never heard or read about autopsy examinations on that poor people, but I'd bet their blood alcohol level would have been found to be VERY high.
ye here in britain i will often sit down and have i pint with my dad since i was little i would get asked if i wanted a sip of his tennents or whatever he liked at the time i would allways say it tastes awfull and prefferd to have a small glass of cider usally kopperberg or shandy (yes i know a shandy has beer in it but it was sweeter) occasionally at christmas time or when we go on holiday.
For me as german, the gap between 16 and 18 was important because we did most of our drinking excesses in that time. So when I got my driving license, I had already stopped drinking so much.
Yeah I know what you mean here in Canada the legal drinking age is 18 but I stared officially drinking at 25. That being said I am 35 now and I won't lie it does not have the same appeal it did when I was in my mid 20s. Granted I also approached it as best I could in order to avoid being an alcoholic. Like even today I am super mega hyper focused on if I cross the line and become an alcoholic also side note I still can't drive yet lol. So drinking and driving was not a big issue for me. And I hope to God it does not become a concern.
lol 😂 yeah, it the country of the Free isn't it ? there should be tiktok-compilations about how 'murricans are so much freeer than europeans, russians asians and africans & south americans... and austAliens 👽
I remember when I went to the US for the first time, I was 19 years old and my peers were obsessed with alcohol because it was taboo. it was quite obvious that the law achieved the opposite of what it intended
The main issue here, I think, is the alcohol dependency. DUI is often associated with alcoholic drivers. Starting to drink at lower ages increases the risk of becoming an alcoholic, at least from what I see around. The people that I know as alcoholics started to (constantly) drink early and they could not kick the habit later.
That is similar to my experience when I lived in the US as a 16/17 yearold. However when I visited when I was older and my Friends were Collage age, I did Not experience the Hollywood movie Style Fratparty bingedrinking. There were people who clearly did not know their Limit but that was mit the Norm. As to 'drinking habits' I feel Like that is also Dependance on your upbringing and maybe your age. I myself (as an 80s/90s Kid) drink almost never and only when I am with my Friends. I used to Drink a bit more when I was at University, as I was more often Out with Friends. And I See the Same with my Friends, even those who drank quite a bit Back in the Uni-days drink Just one Beer or a glas of wine the hole evening nowadays. ... Well we all got Family and Jobs and so on, so WE cannot be irresponsible as much as we could when we were twenty. Different topic: When I Heard the 'just say no' statement, I thought "well Why don't they 'Just say no' to gun violence?" If IT 'works' for drugs, Alkohol and premarital Sex it should work for gun violence as Well, right?😇
@nondimensional4977well...science so far is not decided on the matter. My personal experience is that the age doesn't matter, the social souroundings on the other hand do.
@nondimensional4977 Another point to consider is that young people in the US start binge drinking as soon as they are allowed to buy and consume alcoholic beverages to "make up" for the time they weren't allowed but wanted to; possibly starting the experience with hard drinks. And because they are legally adults at this point, parents can't rein in the same way like - ideally - German parents can with their 16 year old kids who start with light drinks in a more controlled environment.
@nondimensional4977 It could also be that people drinking heavily while younger, and then end up as alcoholics, had/have other reasons for drinking and becoming dependent on it. Dependency on alcohol and drugs is often correlated with mental health and other factors like home-life.
My parents had a much more European attitude towards drinking. My brother and I were allowed to have a glass of wine or a beer with Sunday dinner or a Holiday meal as young as 14/15. I think they wanted to teach us about responsible drinking in a safe environment.
Dinner and meal are the keywords here. In all the Mediterranean countries this is a common rule. Never drink with an empty stomach. Drink while eating, slowly while talking with other people,. In Greece, I have seen many parents allowing their kids to sip wine even at the age of 9 or 10 at the table and slowly as they grow up letting have a beer or a glass of wine with them.
Same here. My German born grandmother would allow us to have a glass of wine with our Christmas meal and she would put the liqueur, cream de menthe on our ice cream
@tyxeri48 In Germany or France this isn't only related to a supervised dinner and meal with your family! It has more to do with freedom and trust, so it is widely extended to peers and friends. While in Germany you got a focus on "Feierabend"/quitting time of your work, in France it is focussed on whole days like Wednesdays and Mondays. In Germany, Mondays are often times free, too, but not really celebrated like the Sunday. Wine and beer are both related to Christianity culturally, so it was common to drink after the social gathering and of a fine quality. So, the regular age limit regulated by families and individuals not the government was about 14 years. While Continental Europe remained more culturally conservative, the US had an ongoing fight against traditional and real conservativism since the 1930's. That's where this destroyed anomic (anti-christian) culture with no real trust and limit comes from. On average, it isn't because of the long witholding period. The US developed themselves towards drinking cheap booze and commercialization, also with British-American companies (later Russian oligarchs). Take a look how Mexicans consume let's say Tequila and what the imported stuff is about. In the US, it is also more related to British/Irish pubs, which had their roots in Taverns and Inns with also very cheap til unhealthy booze. The German Kneipen were historically similar, but not about unhealthy booze and more a man thing. They only later turned to be an organization for Socialists, extended to regulating or not regulating booze. On average, they remain trustworthy in regard of what to sell and the amount, while the costumer is also more aware. In the US, you don't have that awareness on average.
An average sedan has 5 seats. One driver and 4 passengers. Somebody has to give up dringing each night and enjoy getting "drunk" by sugar overdose from coke. Able drivers can rotate on voluntary base. Unreliable members don't get to drive at all even if they are sober. Those were our rules and we arrived home every time both in summer and in snowstorms. There is an alternative approach: The most drunk guy gets to drive home. He doesn't care about his license anyway. Which option is better?
Not much different from rural Germany. The clubs are in the cities, and if you plan to return late at night on a weekend using public transportation isn't an option.
Add to that, you're allowed to drive a vehicle which has te capability of harming and even killing dozens when handled carelessly, but have to wait 5 more years for a beer.
Remember reading about Vietnam veterans complaining to that, as they were allowed to get drafted & shoot people, but after returning back - they weren't allowed to have a drink with their friends. Think the one citing this also mentioned that was his argument, to his CO, about why he wanted to get back to the war. 🤔
@ll4PILLARSllplus: people are allowed to operate that vehicle without proper, thorough and extensive training and testing, both theoretical and practical, before they can obtain the licence to operate said vehicle. Just look at the extensive German process for getting a licence. And at how quickly you can lose the licence (suspension and/or revoking) if you disobey the rules, especially when drinking. For example, any new driver is on probation for two years, no matter the age. Almost any transgression of the rule will result in the revocation of your licence - and you have to do the whole process again. Months of training. Thousands of Euros. Afterwards there’s a layered system that will result in various consequences, depending on severity and frequency of the transgression. Monetary fines and accumulated strike-out points will result in license suspension for short or long periods - and even to a loss of your licence. And once it’s lost due to too many transgressions it’s even possible that the driver has to pass a medical and psychological evaluation to prove that he’s mentally fit to operate a vehicle. Drivers have quite an incentive to behave well, I guess
@UltraCasualPenguin A beer has no potential to save you live, a gun does. Drop the BS with guns because most EU Countries allow gun ownership too. Germany for example allows people 18+ to purchase / possess a gun.
As a German that now lives in Australia I found that there was a vast difference between why my Aussie friends drink to my German once. Australians seem to drink to get drunk and German get drunk because they drink (obviously a complete generalisation). For my German friends it seem to be a by product of the social side of drinking whereas for Australians its seem to be the goal.
I drink often. And my goal is never to get drunk. But that wasn't the case when I was a kid or young adult. Now, I never want to get drunk. One time, while traveling I had a layover in Atlanta, and went to the Delta Sky Club, where I drank 5 gin Martinis. When they asked if I wanted another, I said, "No thanks. Give me a beer. I don't want to get drunk."
@Bob-bs9okI’m German and me and basically all my friends wouldn’t drink any alcohol if it wouldn’t get us drunk, because it just tastes horrible or at least worse than juice alone or just a nice softdrink. I still don’t understand how someone can enjoy the taste of something this horrible when everything tastes better without it.
@zekiz774you just haven't found your drink yet, I guess... or alcohol really isn't for you. But a really good beer or wine or something stronger like cognac or whisky... that's such a pleasure...
I do think most 16-18 year olds do drink alcohol to get drunk here in germany. I do get what you mean though. Drinking alcohol together is just part of the culture at that point. And the older you get, the more you aquire a taste for alcohol and you can genuinely enjoy a freshly poured beer more than some sugary soft drink.
@arturotaratungoro It is society's reaction to a citizen not living up to the responsibility required to drive responsibly and legally in traffic. Very logical
So it seems. And as European drinking is usually beer or wine, US drinking seems to be more consuming hard liquers, like Bourbon, Cognag or rum. But the biggest difference seems to be that Americans get toxicated with medics and drugs more than Alcohol when European toxication is more alcohol based. So I'd say Americans are drug addicts and European are alcohilists, in general at least. Most Americans I have seen are Drug addicts, and I haven't even visited the new continent.
It's like teen pregnancies in the US are way more frequent despite a higher age of consent and way bigger social pressure to no sex before marriage. Teenagers are gerenally eager to get to be doing "adult stuff" and the letter of the law is the least of their concerns - and prohibition or is correlated with higher levels of risk taking.
I'm from Denmark, and I feel that learning to drink responsibly from an early age allows you to be smarter about it. I have never driven drunk, or done (incredibly) stupid things while drunk, or blacked out from drinking (stupid acts / blackouts are common stories among Danes), even when binge drinking, and I think that's because my parents taught how to appreciate drinking rather than just binging to binge, and I think that is common with a lot of people - learning to drink from trustworthy adults makes you more responsible when drinking.
With a big smile: I imagine an American watching Danes at the Danish- German border. You might think, Danish might be drown in alcohol, followed by Swedish citizens coming to Kiel or Puttgarden. Masses of beer and wine, to consume carefully when at home having a good meal.❤
@katharinamarschall5662Yea. I live in Norway and grew up in a small village outside a city. We often went to the city in the weekends to party. No public transport home, so we had 1 friend not driving.
I worked at an American summer camp in the late 90s when in the UK drink driving was very socially disapproved of by teen-agers in my rural area, when drinking at 16 was normal. I was shocked by how normal drink driving was at the summer camp. I don't know if this is still the case.
@alenliawoerner6858 I think drink in charge of a bicycle is an offence in the uk but it isn't related to a blood alcohol level, more to ability to ride.
My first duty station as active duty US military was in Germany. I was just barely 20yrs of age. I had been drinking illegally in the US on an irregular social level already. So when I found that I could legally drink in my new location - drinking got boring. Or at least, the thrill of just having alcohol was gone. Now. Germany. Awesome food. Including some great beers and wonderful wines and delicious liquors. I didn't stop drinking - I still consumed alcohol at a very moderate social pace. But I was drinking to enjoy the experience... not for the thrill of the act. It was very, very rare that I got outright drunk. I also got to watch cultures clash on alcohol. One of the awesome things about my Germany experience was the fests. Town got sacked during a medieval war? Let's blame the pigs, slaughter a bunch for roasting, and turn it in to a fest! Sun came up? Sounds like a fest! Every fest tended to have carnival games and rides. Food. And the beer and wine tents. Alcohol flowed liberally in to the crowd. And I rarely saw someone absolutely blitzed. Merry. Loud. Drinking with a lust for life. All that, yes. But keeled over in drunken sickness... almost never (almost). It seemed like it was totally uncool. And the US GIs would coach the newbies to not embarrass us all to the locals. Back in the barracks, some fresh-off-the-plane kid just out from under Mom's apron strings might be praying to the head. And some might think that kind of thing had some degree of bravado to it. But it seemed like that was newbie thinking. The real coolness was slamming down some cool German brews and knowing when to stop so you got to keep 'em and remember the experience (most of the time). Or at least, not get so blitzed that one embarrassed the team out in public in front of the locals. Talking with teen locals and GI brats - the binge culture didn't seem to be encouraged. They got drunk. Those that drank liked to drink for sure. But as best as I could tell the American party animal just wasn't in the youth culture either. Even if they thought the red solo cups were cool. Does this all pan out with others' experiences? I dunno. I hit 21 while still in Germany (no legal binge party - who cares) and had long outgrown the pearl-clutching moral panic over alcohol by the time I left Germany for points unknown. Though when I did have my own daughter hit the age of aclohol... well... I had different lessons for her. And I never once felt the need to reach for the pearls. And never have felt kinship with those that do.
I’m German and to me it felt similar. Alcohol and drinking was something to enjoy, to celebrate life, not to get wasted. Getting wasted was pretty uncool in my region and time as well, even when we just started drinking (at 14-16).
"So when I found that....I could legally drink " In Hungary, they say that you wish for what is forbidden, you want to get it. This can be true for many things..
German here - big thank you for your comment. I would actually connect the ideas in it more with Southern Europe or parts of France, but i'm happy that you found this to be part of our German culture. Especially when you mentioned your military background i thought, when a country allows young people to carry guns or to drive a tank in the military, they should also trust these young people to drink responsibly...
In mexico even though the law says alcohol drinking age is 18 quite some people drink before 18 and in some places you can even buy alcohol without an ID
As a German I had my first glass of champagne on New Year's Eve when I was 13. My first glass of beer when I was 14 with a girlfriend under the supervision of her mother. All the adults in my young life have always handled alcohol very responsibly. There were never any excesses. Nobody drove drunk. I think that's why I drink not so much (some glasses of wine with dinner) and when I do, I drink responsibly, because I was shown how to do it. Plus the fact, as you say, that my driving licence had cost €2,000 and I don't want to lose it, and I had time between the ages of 16 and 18 to learn my limit, makes it easier for me personally.
As a Mexican it’s common for some people in my country to drink since they are 14 or 15 and also small grocery stores will sell you alcohol if they know your family but bigger grocery stores like supermarkets will not sell it
You werent supervised, you were groomed into drinking. If you were supervised you wouldnt be allowed to drink, any amount of consumed alcohol is harmful for your health, aspecially as a teenager. All those excuses about not drinking too much mean nothing, you are still killing yourself slowly, just not immediately, like those who black out and fall or crash their car. You may feel like you obtained a healthy habit, but in practice you just got a wrong idea implemented in your brain, the idea that alcohol can be safe to drink. And that is a blatant lie.
@clabapcuxonabtam3072the more you forbid people to do something, the more you drive them to doing something. Not allowing something isn’t the answer. On average Europeans live longer than Americans. It’s all about moderation, and sound mental health of the individual is important.
@clabapcuxonabtam3072Did you know that oxygen kills you too? It’s toxic and accelerates cell death. Even more shocking! There is a statistic correlation between religion and alzheimers!! You should never even consider Jesus or a smidgeon of spirituality because it’s unhealthy and WILL kill you! And you should never be supplied oxygen when you’re in critical condition because natural oxygen levels in the air are already bad enough for your health!!! Calm down. Alcohol is bad for you, obviously, but a single beer or 20 spread over a year will have LITERALLY ZERO impact on your health. Now if you drink 20 beers in a single night on an empty stomach you might suffer serious acute damage to your body.
I'm British, and I think my earliest memory of drinking alcohol was when I was 9 and had a few sips of champagne on New Years 2000, and then when I was in my teens I was occasionally allowed alcohol like cider with a pub meal, or some Bailey's during Christmas. Being allowed it in a controlled way when younger than I was able to buy it myself meant I never had the urge to binge drink at parties. Whenever I see the stereotypical American college alcohol consumption it's beer bongs and really strong punch.
I'd not consider this as a general thing for brits. A British friend of mine started drinking with 11, and she's the most hyped person for heavy drinking I know, even when grown up. And I really don't see how having fun at getting insanely drunk at parties has anything to do with being introduced to alcohol by your parents in a "responsible" way (starting with 9 is too early tho, no offense)
American here, but my parents took the same approach. letting me try a sip of all sorts of different alcoholic beverages took all the mystery out of it, so I never had the urge to go out and experiment with alcohol.
I was offered a beer by my mother when I was 15 and puked as a result of drinking it. To this day, I may have a beer every six months or so but feel no need for it. The same goes with cigarettes. I smoked when I was 17, got bronchitis, and cigarettes lost their appeal. You could say I was innoculated.
@Ray25689 Starting at 9 isn't that early when it's only a small amount, considering historical consumption of low alcohol beer. It's not like they were giving me pints every day, but a half of cider that's only 4% with a meal isn't at all a big deal. Some people act like even a little bit will be damaging but in low amounts, especially not on an empty stomach, it's absolutely safe. The real issue is young teens sharing a big bottle of strong cider or vodka on a park bench rather than a small glass as a treat in the home or at a special event.
In Southern Europe, wine is always present. It is very common to drink wine with meals, since we were children we see our parents and grandparents drink wine and they gradually introduce you and teach you how to drink it and enjoy it. In Southern Europe drinking is a social act, very few people drink alone and only the very young drink to get drunk.
Doesn't happen nowadays, but kids from northeast of Portugal took for breakfeast slices of bread in a bowel of wine. It was suppose to warm up the body during winter time Some of them get drunk to school 😁
@lxportugal9343Wine soups with bread were common in all wine-producing regions. Of course it is not advisable to give a child that kind of food, but that food is better than nothing..., and it was discounted wine
The “drunk driving” argument exposes an obvious issue: In a car-dependent society (such as most of the USA) where most pubs are neither within walking distance nor reachable by public transit, DUI incidents are just bound to happen. There’s an infamous term “functioning alcoholic”, often used in the USA, where there are in fact almost *zero* functioning alcoholics, considering that “functioning alcoholism” implies DUI in the USA. DUI is *not* a “functioning” situation by any standard. Elsewhere in the world, walkable neighborhoods (or crawlable neighborhoods for certain folks) with good public transit coverage make DUI incidents way less likely.
yet another way how strong civil infrastructure and proper methods of city planning help make for a better society sadly in america the land of the late stage capitalist hellscape where car manufacturer are more influencial than breweries car culture is so mainstream that without one you are basically stuck in a city while in a more developed country even a hobo could catch a bus to a different city with minimal effort
@michaelkulakov9716 The next big city design revolution will see a switch from hard materials like concrete to more accommodating materials like cushions to make it even more accessible and safe:) No crawling necessary
Being "responsible drinker" doesn't only mean amount, it means how it harms others. If after 8 beers you still don't sit behind the wheel of a car even if you had the opportunity, you are more responsible drinker than one that sits behind one after 2.
Or take responsibility for the known factors of if you at a location only assessable by a car you have committed premeditated DUI If you had to drive to the bar -what’s your plan to get home after planning to consume alcohol in public
The Danish youth (age 15-25) are the biggest consumers of alcohol in the given age range, and alcohol is extremely common, but the thought of DUI is an insane risk, not only for other people's safety, but also the huge consequences if you get caught. I honestly don't know anybody within my friend group who have driven drunk. We are also a culture of people planning in advance, so most people have a plan on how they will get home safe before going out.
@meanmanturbo It is definitely an inflammatory factor, the distance between suburbs and bars may also play a factor. I'm Swedish but the idea of a designated driver have always just been weird to me. If we were going out drinking, nobody would bring a car. We'd just take the bus to the city and the bus back home sometime after midnight. If public transit isn't available (a result of car-centricism) and the distance from home to pub is large enough (due to zoning) I could see many taking the risk. I believe the US also have a higher blood alcohol level allowed compared to most / if not all European nations. Probably to allow an adult to enjoy a beer and still be able to drive home, which may cause some over-drinking contributing to the statistics. As a personal anecdote in the case of Fenno-Scandinavia I'd argue that we tend to preach individual responsibility more rather than babysitting by the Government in issues on a social level. A lot of our laws or in some cases lack of laws surrounding topics rely more on people not being dicks so laws or regulation don't have to be written or enforced surrounding that topic.
Unfortunately drunk driving is still quite common in Lithuania. Consequences are there, but it's almost cultural to ignore all that and do it anyway. A lot of people plan around, but still it kinda has cultural status of being almost like no big deal. Some famous people aren't even judged by society harshly for that.
15:50 key word is *report* here. In places where it isn’t illegal to drink for them, people are more likely to admit it than in places where they could get in trouble for admitting they have been (binge) drinking.
This...Absolutely this. Using a data model based on reported social norms is more a study of social philosophy and perceived morality than the subject data itself
@albertnielsen1154If you think that an anonymous questionnaire is actually anonymous you are a fool, plain and simple. Unless you’re using programmes that most regular people don’t, you will be able to be linked to the answers you have given.
I missed the strange fact that the USA has a much higher percentage of alcohol related death in traffic WHILE also having a higher limit on what is considered driving under the influence of alcohol. So probably the percentage of alcohol related incidents is even higher if you use the European standards.
Car related traffic deaths per capita are multiple times higher in the US than in Germany and similar European countries, so even if we both had the same ratio of drunk driving, you'd have way more deaths related to drunk driving in the US - just through the higher road fatality rate alone.
@faultier1158i have driven a car in various US states as well as many European countries. The fact the US has a higher death toll per capita doesn’t surprise me at all!
@faultier1158 Deaths due to drunken driving per head of population in the USA in 2021 were 12 times higher than in the UK and 14 times higher than in the USA. But then, per head of population, the rate of road fatalities in the USA in 2021 was over 5 times higher than in the USA than the UK and more than 4 times higher than in Germany (and still much higher, even if you factor in increased distances driven). US road are simply a lot more dangerous than pretty well every European country.
Well what always got me, was the story of a guy who fought from the beaches of Normandy to the heart of Germany in WW2 and when he got back to NY after the war he couldn't legally get a beer, because he was only 20 years old. The way I see it: if your country says you are old enough to die for it, you are bloody well old enough to drink.
Because the bartenders in Murika (who stayed home in Kentucky to guard their barrels of bourbon from the Nazi enemies) were also the pillars of the law-abiding community and builders of CIVILIZATIONS, so help them Bachus!
Hello from Spain! I would like to add the question of "Why do people consume alcohol in the US vs Europe?" Since at least here in Spain , we might consume a lot of beer or wine, but that's just because going out for a beer with your friends or enjoying whine in a family gathering is the most comon way of socializing .
I don't drink myself, but when my friends do get themselves dead drunk, they still have the sensibility to follow the law, like not driving. Safety is so deeply ingrained into them that being "safe" is just common sense. I'm from Denmark btw, where there's no drinking age limit, only for buying alcohol.
I am Mexican and it’s common in my country to see people as young as 14 or 15 drinking and also corner stores in my country will sell you alcohol and cigarettes
I've lived in the US and Ireland. (From US now in Ireland) I think the US really struggles with the concept of moderation. I think this is true in a lot of aspects of US culture, but definitely true of alcohol consumption. In the states you're either drinking to get drunk or you don't drink at all. Despite Europe's reputation, I don't think Ireland is much better, at least with kids. Older adults here tend to be better at drinking in moderation, but people under 30 tend to binge drink as much as yunguns in the US. For me personally, I rarely drink because of cost.
The concept of moderation is an elastic concept, like a friend of mine can drink 3 bottles of wine during the afternoon and Id say that is moderation, because it doesnt effect him anymore as much, a lot of people drink casually, at a café, order a beer, also despite being ilegal for minors to buy alchool, I am very certain the police here barely enforces it(if you dont kill anyone they dont enforce much at all) and I have seen 13 years old buying licor, when I was 10 years old I would go to the store to buy Tobacco for my grandfather.
@pedrorequio5515 "The concept of moderation is an elastic concept, like a friend of mine can drink 3 bottles of wine during the afternoon" See, the thing with moderation is not how much you are able to drink, but how much doesnt attack your health in general. If you drink 3 bottles of wine even just 2 times a week, your liver and kidneys will absolutely take damage over time no matter how drunk you feel. If you drink small amounts on a regular basis, your tolerance will go up, your organs wont be affected too much because they are designed to work with small, even regular amounts of any toxin in the system. But if you just binge drink even semiregular, your organs will absolutely take damage even if you yourself dont feel drunk, because of a higher tolerance. This is not 'elastic' this is simple biology. Alcohol is still a neuro toxin at the end of the day and it is a very effective one at that, because your overall neurologic capabilities will be affected from the very first sip, even thou you dont feel drunk due to tolerance.
Hi Ashton, I was waiting on a video about this. I grew up in Germany, visited the US when I was not yet 21, lived in the US from 2000 till recently and now in Spain. I have kids and grandkids in the US that went through that age or are in that age range of 15-18 right now and I have a clear winner for this. The EU, hands down! Here are my reasons. - My father was an alcoholic, so I actually didn't want to end up, like him, thus I didn't drink with my friends when partying. However, being together with 16-17 years old is very boring without alcohol. - When I was 18, the drivers license was the ticket to get out of my village finally, so risking it for alcohol is a NONO. I always was the designated driver when we went out and I was OK with it. - When you are 18-19 with your friends, your first love and sit in a park or along a river and have a glass of wine or a beer, makes the event so much more enjoyable then having a Coca Cola. - Now, when I was 19 in the US, I could not go into a bar or have a beer. I was left out and had to do other things. Not that I wanted to get drunk, but that I missed out on socializing with others. - Currently, seeing my grand kids growing up and not being able to go out and have fun, is really hard for me. All they do is sit at home, playing Playstation or are on their phones. There is nothing for them to say, "I meet my friends for a drink" or something. The non existing public transit, even in a big city like Las Vegas, ads another obstacle to this and getting an Uber would cost more than going out. - In August, I was at a large festival in Malaga, Spain. There was a separate area with DJ's for the teenagers. It started at 11PM and most all of them had plastic bags with them containing some sort of alcohol. Non of the thousands of teenagers were over 21. Mind you, the public transit for that festival was 24 hours and cost 2 Eur! What I am saying is NOT that you have to get drunk or become an alcoholic, but being able to have access to alcohol responsibly when you are 16-18 years old, allows you to mingle with other people and opens your horizon a lot. Seeing my grand kids growing up in a bubble, makes me very sad. I think that this bubble is creating the weirdos with a screwed mind that tend to do very, very bad things in their lives by hurting others.
This is an 11/10 response! I am a young 20-something american guy from the US, but grew up in NY and with a much more international upbringing than the average american, i.e. with wine served with dinner in my teens & having spent a fair amount of time in europe. I've thought and reflected a lot much about the cultural impacts & trickle-down effect of our drinking age are, what the 21-rule might be a symptom of in the broader american society, and can never find the right words. It's hard to form a sound case on my own since it can be so hard to quantify 'more responsible' drinking, but I really appreciate how you contextualized it with the casualty of your grankids' experiences. It is quite sad 😕 and i'm sorry. I don't know that I have much more to add here, but social education & learning to be responsible on one's own can go so far and be so much more enriching and build so much more independence. Life isn't as simple or deterministic as the question of "what laws lead to more alcoholics." I think the US misses this message of letting kids make mistakes on their own, like learning to drink young, starting with making it illegal to leave your kids unsupervised, and ending with the 21-year old drinking age. There's a whole spectrum of opportunities and personal growth in between. Thanks again for sharing xx
And those stupid [and proud] Americans which ,I hope are few, all attended the state 'education' system where they had to listen to 'educators',most of whom had never left school. * The Amish leave school at 15 which is why the US bureaucracy have always hated them. @alex-fv2mj
President Reagan used Michael Jackson [a Jehovahs Witness] to soften this outrageous authoritarian law and that MADD woman seemed to buckle at the knee in joy [though her daughter's death was a tragedy].To be fair : at least he negotiated with the Russian leader Mikhail Gorbachev in Iceland.
I can definitely support that the risk of drunk driving in Germany is seen as too high and people won’t even touch the wheel until they’re definitely sober (not to mention that technically it is illegal for a under 21 year old or a person that got the license less than 2 years ago to have any alcohol in the blood). Walking / biking home is seen as the safer alternative. I grew up in a small town in southern Germany that doesn’t have any public transport between 0:30 and 6:00 on weekends, which basically meant that you had three options: stay at McDonalds until 5 and then wait another hour at the train station, take a cab or walk/cycle 20km. Even though this was suboptimal no one ever had the idea to drive home due to the harsh consequences
My school worked with an organisation that offered cheep taxis/suttle service for students to get home after a party to reduce drinking driving. Drunk circling is better than driving, but still quite dangerous and can also be fined heavily, depending on alcohol level.
You brought up this point in the video, but from start to end, I couldn’t stop thinking “this could all be solved with public transport”. You’re much less likely to drink drive if you don’t need to drive at all.
21:10 in my opinion the question "how often are you drunk" is more important than "how often do you drink". Having a beer at home nearly every day is quite common in Germany. But you pose no danger when sitting on your couch while not even being a bit tipsy.
Doesn't that mean the question should be 'how often are you drunk in public?', since being drunk at home does not represent a danger to others? Also self reporting is very unreliable, for most things, and very much depends on outside attitude to what is being reported.
Alcohol is a neurotoxin, and getting tipsy nearly every day is definitely not healthy. And if you start feeling that you can't be without your beer and wine in the evening you have created an addiction, and this can cause you a lot of problems.
@MarcGrafZahl thank you. The "one beer a day" thing is part of the dangerous normalization of alcohol in Germany. Yes, it is not per se dangerous in many cases and as it is done at home usually doesn't impose any danger on the roads, but it helps to downplay the danger of alcohol consumption on a social level.
@patrickhanft As a German (now 63), I don't drink, not from any moral grounds but simply because I dislike how most alcoholic drinks taste, and also the consequences make me feel sick, which I also don't like. Alcohol makes me feel worse, not better. But the only times I ever got significant blood alcohol content was in my 15 months in the air force around 1980, primarily due to social pressure from my comrades - who indulged far more than I ever did. (And I never even tried smoking, though there are stories that as a small kid, I tried eating the stuff - I can't recall any such thing myself. But other people smoking is enough to make my eyes hurt, and then my whole head, for hours. I was very glad when more and more public spaces became non-smoking by law. Horrible stuff.) But, I also don't drive. I never got a driving license, primarily because I have no 3D sight and am bad at estimating speeds and distances - very much not a good thing when driving - but also, I really never needed to, there were always alternate solutions, primarily public transport.
From my experience as a German: yes, I was drinking when I was 15 or 16, and at some parties too much. But I (and most of my friends) got over that by 18 - which means that none of us drove drunk (at least no cars, my bicycle had some close contacts with hedges in that time...)
@jorgefrade8900You can drive with 17 in Germany aswell. If you drive with a parent/caretaker. But the much higher standard for driving in Germany limits underage driving significantly. Being able to kill people on the road should not be held to the same amount as having a nice evening out with friends.
this was something i wondered about as an American. Turns out i was right. Who would have thought. I feel like the attitude towards alcohol here has done far more harm than the bottle would ever have alone.
This is hands down the best comparison of drinking culture in Europe and the US I've ever seen. So extremely factual, showing it from so many angles. It still boggles my mind how you are able to do so much research every week and then put together these amazing videos. Not only that, but better videos than some I've seen where there has been an entire research team hard at work for a long time. I don't know how you do it, but I'm amazed...
You should be saying why do eastern european countries have 0.0 blood limits for driving and western ones like Uk have more american like 0.08 limits. Theres a reason the more corrupt less well run ones have the 0.00 limit
@TypeAshtonIreland’s is 18 and you become an adult at 18 in Ireland In sixth year you have graduation, debs and in my case end of year most people had a few beers, ciders or few glasses of wine and spirits. Reagan is responsible for a lot wrong in your country of birth. Public transport or lack thereof is important is a determining factor in not drink driving or drink drinking. Scandinavia apart from Denmark and Finland are the European USA when it comes to alcohol. I only have a few pints of 5 percent ale a week . I think 18 is good.
I've experienced this personally. I was born in The Netherlands, and moved to Canada with my family when I was 13 years old, back in 1981. One of the cultural differences my family and I noticed right away was the difference in drinking culture. My older brother, who is 5 years older than me, had a summer job at a local brewery here in The Netherlands when he was 15 years old, back in the 70's. We noticed that binge drinking was much more common in the population as a whole, not just in youth. So while youth on both continents indeed indulged in binge drinking likely equally as often, my guess (and it is a guess) is that those numbers change significantly when you look at older groups. My biggest issue is with one of the final statements made in this video. I figure that there is actually one great way of mitigating binge drinking behaviour, and that is one that will mitigate many of society's problems, especially in North America, and that is education. The more educated a population you have, the fewer societal issues will impinge on the health and happiness of its members. If you didn't know already what a difference education can have on a population, just go to youtube and type "stupid Americans", and you can have a laugh for an entire afternoon 🤣 European countries in general will teach its younger members how to deal with responsibility at a younger age than the US (and Canada to a lesser extent). While here in Europe parents teach their kids how to be responsible in public spaces, helicopter parenting appears to be the norm in North America (except when it comes to the military, there US kids can volunteer to get killed with impunity, but heaven forbid they drink a beer in public). Education is the key. Teach kids to be responsible from an early age, let them make their mistakes early, when the consequences of making those mistakes are more often manageable, and you will produce more responsible adults.
Funny you should mention education, because where American kids apparently were literally regularly educated in school about the dangers of alcohol (you can of course debate about the quality or efficacy of that "abstinence only" education), I can't recall my Dutch highschool ever mentioning alcohol. When I went to highschool in the 90's (legal drinking age was 16 back then), almost everyone would drink on the weekends, and lots of it. We would drink at home, at parties, bars and clubs and nobody would monitor any of this, including parents. Looking back, I wouldn't have wanted to miss it, because it was such a fun time, but it was also extremely unhealthy.
@MartijnPenningsI am German and we were indeed educated on alcohol, especially alcohol making dangerous situations like traffic aka riding bikes drunk, drunk driving, walking home drunk near roads, in bars or clubs aka being drugged by putting stuff in your drink, never leaving a drunk person on their own alone, and stuff like that. We were told about all the dangers of alcohol at around 15 years old without people saying „you shouldn’t drink“, they just made it clear that there are many dangers and drinking responsibly is important. We knew all of the dangers and could make an informed decision. And many of my friends in fact were able to make informed decisions, even at the age of 16, 17, 18… My friends didn’t drive drunk, we would never leave a drunk person alone by themselves and we would call each others parents to get picked up in case someone went overboard. So education is indeed very important, but not in a way that only deems abstinence as the only right option, but that promotes informed decisions and responsible behavior. And even teenagers have the ability to do this.
One problem with these indoctrination sessions is that a lot of kids are naturally rebellious. I was. And so were a lot of people I knew. So when some authority figure comes along and tells us not to drink, we'd drink out of spite. For some, "education" (or indoctrination in this case) can have the opposite effect of that which was intended. Especially for critical thinkers.
I am from europe and went to US 20 years ago (time flies…😢) for several months, and what I remember is being asked my passport to buy beer in supermarket, to enter some bar/club. I also did have some young people came to me to ask if I could buy them beer from the store. I was in california so also people where very scared of publicly carrying a bottle of alcohol (even unopened if I remember well) … and many other small details like that. So it left me an impression , not really about people drinking, but more an impression of some sort of general hysteria about alcool, where in Europe I believe the subject is more or less a non event.
I had similar experiences in the US. Everyone, regardless of age, needs to produce ID to purchase drink. I was told that stores are subject to agents sending people in without ID in order to test the storekeepers ability in always looking for ID. No exceptions are made in this rule. In a different slant I was amused to see cans of beer on sale in Rome in a shop that also had seating for the consumption of drinks and confectionery bought in the shop. Such informal coffee shops would never be allowed to sell beer in prudish Ireland. One must get a wine license to sell wine in restaurants and cafes. Only in theaters and museums and art galleries do you find cafes that also have wine on sale. It seems that Ireland makes a distinction between the so-called "civilised" elements in society, who enjoy a good play, historical artifact or painting but the powers that be cannot stand the thought of the lower orders and the horny handed sons of toil getting their hands on alcohol, even beer. This class distinction even goes as far as in 3rd level education where the Universities have student Bars open at licensing hours but the technical colleges do not. Our Parliament building also has a bar, subsidised by the taxpaying public, and the subject of an inquiry over some people not paying the bar bills.
The 21th Amendment exists, but the 18th is still quite present in a lot of heads. (The 18th was Prohibition, the 21st repealed it. I'm pretty sure the 18th is the only Amendment that was ever repealed)
And I always thought that the Irish Republic was founded on the idea of a classless society but I suppose one should look at the example of that in France-where that cult came from.What surprises me is how authoritarian the country has become ,though to be fair, it presents itself with a smiling feminine face [both sexes] unlike Nazi Germany or the USSR. ' The Government is your friend and wants to help you'... @jgdooley2003
i got over my “alcohol is so cool” phase much earlier than americans. i’m canadian in a province where the drinking age is 18 (or 16 if you’re at home and with parents/guardians), and there’s nowhere near the same party culture up here. especially in university.
As a German, I got my first portion of alcohol from my mom at age 14. She said she'd rather be around when I try it out so she can have some sort of control, rather than me trying it in secret and going over board. I did drink semi-regularly with my fans a few years later. But now that I am an adult I don't even wanna drink much. Idk if that's to do with me having it tried out wo early, or if it is a personality thing.
it all comes down to "responsible drinking". here a short personal story about one of my kids (i have it done with both). young teens are for sure courious about everything and of course about alcohol too. and me and my wife decided to have their first drinking experience in a save and controlled enviroment. so we allowed her to have a party with her friends at her 14 birthday with alcohol involved. we got the permisson from other parents to serve their kids alcohol at that party. its was a really fun party (for both, the parents and the kids) the kids gone through all stages that alcohol bring to you. and the next morning was the greatest for us as parents ^^. well, since this day we had no worries about our kids that they would drink behind our knowledge. they had now known what alcohol can do to you. none of them is a alcohlic or is drinking until they pass out at a party. they drink now "responsible". and i personally think i would be more glad to have a drunk child as one that is dead by shooting in a school or at the street ....... greetings
@NormaJean951 i am just glad that i dont live in the USA and was refering to it. feel free to interpret my last sentence in every way you want to do so.
@NormaJean951well...the fact that the lead cause of death for children in the US is guns...and everywhere else it isn't. Might be a reason, that the thought has occured. 😏🤷♂️
I think what you said towards the end is key in understanding the attitude difference between Europe and America: If drunk driving by young adults is a problem, Europeans would attack the problem by restricting driving and not drinking. It actually never occurred to me as a European that this was such an important factor for the high legal drinking age in the US. I learned this only from your video.
My father in law was a Portuguese Air Force officer and was stationed in the Azores at some point of his career. As he uses to tell, it was common for the PoAF commander at the base to offer a party to promote mutual friendship between the Portuguese and American garrisons. Usually, the Portuguese officers arrived earlier, helped themselves with a drink and started chatting while slowly enjoying the drink. At some point, they were joined by the US officers, arriving as a whole group. These then started binge drinking, almost with no interactions with their PoAF counterparts. This went on for a small period, until the American CO could no longer hold himself straight, at which point the remainder US officers carried him away. After this, the party went on, with the Portuguese officers continuing to chat while moderately drinking, until everyone thought it was getting late. As it seems, this was a recurrent situation, which is just one more example of the different drinking cultures between the US and Europe.
I have seen Americans, and also people from countries where alcohol is completely banned, binge drink and completely lose morals while temporarily living in another country with normal alcohol laws. Some never even recovered...
My dad was in the Canadian Army and we were posted to Northern Germany when I was 16, it was an interesting phenomenon yo observe who newly arrived kids reacted to the availability of alcohol, mostly beer. Initially there was excessive drinking but after a short time the drinking became more moderate. I believe it was a function of the knowledge of availability. Most kids came from parts of Canada where the drinking age was 21 so having the ability to go to a gasthof was new and novel. After time passed, being able to go for a couple of beer was “normal” so excessive drinking was less commonplace. A fee three years in Germany, coming back to Canada and bo longer able to enjoy a beverage legally was a strain to say the least.
The age was 18 when Pierre lowered the age of majority to 18 from 21 to get the young voters. But in provinces with high school with 12 grades it had intoxicated 18 year olds coming back to school after lunch. They raised the legal age to 19 to keep it out of high schools.
in the Czech Republic we drink a lot. But we also have 0% tolerance, so nobody really gets into o car even after he drank 1 beer. Because you would immediately loose your license for 2 years and pay huge fine as well. And i think this is a good solution.. I feel safe on our roads.
We are also very good drunken drivers, the amount of people regularly or occasionally breaking the 0% is really high, but I do think that the laws are good at preventing "the majority". The drunks that drive even now can be split into 2 cattegories, those who would drive smashed at any situation, regardless of the laws and those who would be legal with just a "just one beer" policy.
Yeah my, dad rode for like 2km drunk from a concert of his band, got pulled over. Lost his drivers license and for a year he had to cycle to work. He also had to attend multiple psychological evaluations to get his license back.
I live in Scotland, which is a country with a high amount of alcohol abuse. At least in my generation, so many people started heavily drinking when they were under 18. Because of this, whenever I have my teenage brother around for dinner, since the age of 14 or so, I make sure to responsibly introduce him to alcohol. Letting him have a low alcohol content drink for special occasions, and offering him a sip whenever I have a new kind of alcohol he hasn't encountered before. I've been open with him from day one that the purpose of this is to avoid making alcohol this exciting unknown thing, and hopefully trying to combat the binge drinking "seshes" that so many newly minted 18 year olds fall into.
In the UK it is legal to drink alcohol from the age of 5, you can drink alcohol (beer, cider or wine) in a pub from 16 but only if consumed with a meal (& someone over 18 must purchase it). At 18 you can buy alcohol. However, there is no age limit to purchase yeast, plastic bucket, malt extract and a hydrometer - allowing you to brew your own beer (as I did from age ~13, was a tradition to make scrumpy from fallen apples in my family, my beer was pretty tame by comparison).
In Sweden there is no age limit at all on drinking, but there is an age limit (I think) of 18 in bars and an age limit of 20 to buy in an alcohol store.
This is a common misconception. The legal age to have a drink with a meal is 5, a pub or restaurant doesn't have a different legal age, they tend to impose different policy ages.
I think the biggest difference in learning responsible drinking is actually not the age limit, it is the attitude of adults towards drinking alcohol around children. I remember going to family meetups and all the adults except the designated drivers having some wine and beer. I remember my parents coming home quite drunk with a taxi, and my dad having to get the car the next day by foot. (I thought it was stolen.) When we are teens and going out alone, our parents tell us to not get into a car with a drunk person and to call them to pick us up, or they give us taxi money. They also tell us where the "Night Taxi" (a rideshare service after the buses stop) are and to call them. It is not some hidden thing you have to do in secret by getting an older person to buy you alcohol. We even stopped a reckless friend here and a drunk stranger trying to get into a car there and took the car keys off them and called them a taxi. If a policeperson sees a very drunk teenager (or adult), and deems them unfit to go home, they either bring you home or, if you live alone, put you in a holding cell and bring you water and food. Having alcohol is very normalized, for better or worse, and so is dealing with the consequences.
I do think it's also the age limit. People start partying and wanting to do adult things like drinking by age 16, so I think it makes sense to allow a little bit of it to teach them to do so responsibly. I think a legal drinking age that is unrealistically high, like 21 conflicts with responsible learning, because it doesn't take away the teenagers' desire to try this thing that adults seem to enjoy. They'll do it anyway but now are forced to do so secretly in places where there are no adults or older youths around to provide some oversight and intervention if needed, plus if a minor does have a problem with drinking, they can't seek out help without incriminating themselves if underage drinking is handled as a punishable offense. Also I believe having a lower drinking age for weaker alcoholic beverages than for strong alcohol, like Germany does (15 for beer, wine and similar stuff below 15% and 18 for anything with 15% or more) is a good way to teach children that alcohol percentage matters and not to overestimate how many shots they can take, because it takes a while for the alcohol to develop it's the full effect. Whereas banning everything outright may suggest that it's all the same.
I'm 58 and French. I really saw a decline in drinking in France during my life time. When I started to work in the 80s, must of my older colleagues had either a beer or a glass of wine with their meal at lunch time. Today, not so much. If you go to a restaurant at lunch time, you'll see that most people do not drink anymore around, while when I was in my twenties, most tables would have a bottle of wine. I'm not sure whether it is a conscious choice or not, but in my case I can't remember the last time I took some alcool in a restaurant at lunch time during a working day. Of course this is my own experience and it might not reflect what other people think, but I really saw a deep transformation of the French society, in the last 20 years. I should also note that there is a strange correlation with smoking that is not longer as prevalent in French society as it was before, as if drinking and smoking had become private habits that you don't show up in public anymore.
Same in Austria. We meet from a club a bit outside so anyone drives by car. Only a few people drink alcohol and then mostly only one beer. Or there are the couples where he asks his partner if she drives today and then orders a second beer or otherwise stays with juice.
@reinhard8053 This is quite interesting. It seems to match the statistics she showed up in which European countries seem to evolve in the same direction in terms of drinking. I wonder if there is a social pressure that people feel unconsciously. Something that would tell other people that you don't live a healthy life, that you might not be a good employee. I really have no idea.
@lesfreresdelaquote1176 The biggest pressure is your driving licence ! The other might be that alcohol is drunk because of taste not only to get drunk (at least from a certain age on).
Since drunk driving is used as the explanation for the higher drinking age, I would like to see some data on the average age of drunk drivers. In Belgium most people that get caught drunk driving are the older generation (above 60). I can see that in my own family. On family gatherings, it's always the older men that get behind the wheel after 10+ beers, while people of my age (44) and younger usually make sure they have a designated driver before the party starts.
I’m from Mexico but was raised in the US. In Mexico, the drinking culture is similar to Europe in the sense that it’s not taboo for teenagers to have access to alcohol. When I was in high school and would go to a party in Mexico, people didn’t really think twice when alcohol was present. It just wasn’t a big deal and was somewhat expected. Sure, you’d always have a couple of people who overdid it, but all in all I found people generally had a few drinks and knew their limits despite being young. In the US on the other hand, it was completely different. When I was in high school and would end up at a party that had alcohol, people would react in one of two ways: completely freak out and leave, or, get overly excited and black out. This attitude remained prevalent into university. I went to university in the US and it was shocking how many ambulances were called to the freshmen dorms the first month of school. People simply didn’t know their limits and had their first experiences with alcohol in an unsupervised setting.
After moving to Europe I definitely drink more than I did in the USA. I think you cannot understate the effect that good transit has on the limit of drunk driving rates. I also think that the under drinking age in Austria and German allow kids to experiment when they are still at home and "get it out of their system" before they head to university. The amount of binge drinking at Uni here is much less than in the USA. Also a staged approach where beer/wine is available first is good because with low ABV beers it is hard to really endanger yourself, there is just too much volume of liquid.
My dad told me once upon a time "in an ideal world, the drinking age and driving age are flipped". Sucks that US suburbia is so car dependent that any motion lower the drinking age or raise the driving age won't get anywhere.
I was trying alcohol with my parents from about 11 or 12. My mum taught me how to drink responsibly. I’ve never been hungover, and never binge drunk. Teach your kids and you’ll avoid a lot of problems.
@@CatVision-jx6he I’m not German….. and it’s not like I was getting drunk, I was just learning what alcohol was and about how to treat alcohol. Thats why I said I was trying alcohol, not drinking. I come from a country where binge drinking is a serious problem and yet I’ve never participated. I thank my parents and their education for that.
It's funny, as someone that went to high school in the 90's, in Wisconsin, I had teachers that used to talk about going out for a beer during their lunch time while they were in high school. And we got to just sit there and go "WTF!!"
Common in the UK. At my school formal (prom) we do shots with our teachers, it's tradition. Even if we're not 18, no one cares. You even get tickets for free drinks. My soft spoken female English teacher bought me this gross spicy shot and slapped me on the back and said 'get that down ya, ya cunt' 😂 not even joking btw. Had a beer with the dean of discipline at my school because he was in the same pub my dad brought me to when I was 16 😅
In Romania, many of us are served alcohol by our families since very, very young ages. Many fellow Romanian will recall being in a family gathering and hearing some random uncle go "just a sip of wine, it's homemade, it's good". The first drink I ever had was actually a 40-50% strong homemade moonshine called "ţuică", similar to serbian rakia or hungarian palinka. Sounds extreme at first, but actually is a lifesaver for us. We spent most of our highschool days drinking in bars (yeah some would serve you alcohol between 14 and 18 despite the legal age being 18). By the time we reach the age to drive (also 18), we are very aware of our drinking limits and drinking itself doesn't seem so exciting and cool anymore. Also, you can get public transportation pretty much everywhere (though the buses can be crappy at times), so you don't have the necessity to use a car.
yes! me and my brother always had a small coffee cup of alcohol at family gatherings/holidays. wine, beer, sparkling wine, palinca. i remember it started from first grade.
Not all of us did that as teenagers, drinking in the bars, and certainly NOT in the Communist and post-Communism years, that is mostly a post-2005 trend. Like now, in the early 20's, there is a trend among teenagers to consume drugs.
Yo, that part about the uncle is SO relatable. I’m Hungarian and 19, and every single time my uncle keeps asking me “But WHY don’t you want any alcohol??” and like, shut up. I’m allowed to not like it man.
Another important factor for DUI deaths in the US is the size of the cars: pedestrians are always more likely to die when hit by cars in the US compared to in Europe, regardless of how drunk the driver might have been.
I can never find again, but many years ago I read a report about binge drinking in UK and US universities. They were confused why the US numbers were much higher than the UK. Then they compared the definition, the US was five drinks in a session and the UK was 3 days of heavy drinking
I'm from the UK, and the English are famously annoying drunks. A problem across Europe. Accedote, I was on a work trip in the US with a group. We were invited out for a drink after work. We were utterly surprised when almost everyone left after A drink. That's almost unheard of here
@scollybWe are famously annoying drunks at home, too. I like a drink with the best of them, but if I have too many, not often nowadays, I tend to just smile at people. I take my dog out for a walk last thing at weekend and have a special route that avoids pubs.
@scollyb I live in Amsterdam and reading your comment I was wondering if this ad campaign is still running in the UK? ruclips.net/video/X-q7V_0OkcI/video.htmlsi=LXe8pMQIKx5fb8qJ
@jal051 they are similar at home but generally more spread out, only Friday and Saturday are bad and only in a few locations. So it's worse in tourist areas
A friend of mine ended up in a relationship with a fella from Rhode Island while at uni. Eventually she ended up going over to the USA for a friends and family visit. One night she was thrilled when someone finally said "Do you want to go for a beer?" and she couldn't get her coat on quickly enough. They got to some dive in the middle of nowhere and she settled in for a decent session. However, after a beer, just the one, the other folk got ready to leave. She was mortified. "A beer" apparently meant just one. Needless to say that on her return to Humberside she terminated the relationship. The thing is if you treat adults like children the you will get what you deserve in the terms of grim statistics.
@brettbuck7362 nah man, its as if you go over to your girlfriend "for sex", but when you finally get to it, you find out she's 20 and meant kissing a bit. This is so immature, i'd back up instantly. There are a few things like that. Morality is one thing like that (Kohlbergs stair model i.e), if a person expresses a moral development level that is not matching up to where they should be, i am out before i can even explain why i think all of this is childish.
Im from Iceland. You're analysis is correct. Having a buzz going "at home" doesn't only save money but allows for intimate activity with friends before a more general socializing with strangers.
When I started college in Scotland in 1979, it was easy to tell which students had been forbidden alcohol by their parents as they were the ones developing a drink problem! Those of us who had tried it before found it easier to keep the levels down. The other think that helped was that, in those days, we were mostly on student grants. This made us have less money to spend. In fact, almost the only time I spent near a bar was at the OTC mess (it was cheaper there).
A major difference in Europe is the attitude to being drunk. When I left the UK about 10yrs ago it was common to see crowds of drunk people going Bar to bar in cities and being very loud and drunk. Going out drinking was seen as adult and even something to boast about. In France by contrast it seemed that such behaviour would be seen as a sign of immaturity and being drunk in public was very found upon. This did seem to have a significant impact on drinking behavior especially among young adults.
A very long time ago, 1969, we went on a school trip to a youth hostel in southern Germany for a week (maybe 2 weeks), every night the teachers in charge allowed us to go down to the local bar and drink beer. It wasn't a problem then. But even back in the UK, when we went on school field trips, we were allowed to go to local pubs. It wasn't an issue then.
We went to Munich in 10th grade... and of course, a day trip to the Andechs beer garden (I think it was hiking?` I remember the Deutsches Museum MUCH better...) was included.
In the 80ies we were on school trips in Austria and Italy (age ~14-17) and it was a planned activity to visit a vine cellar and be allowed to drink alcohol. There were some who drank too much and one teacher was only driving these back to our hostel. There was only a problem for some when they bought their own alcohol and drank far too much one evening at the hostel. But even that didn't have much consequences for anyone.
@annenelson5656 I remember that at a school trip to Belgium (I am Dutch) where we were there was also a lager vending machine outside. That must have been in 2007 or 08. in The Netherlands that was not a thing anymore. Way to easy to get drunk.
My wife and I made the decision to leave our life of beaches and palm trees here in south Florida for rolling hills and vineyards of south western Germany. Your posts have helped set expectations about culture and reaffirmed our choice for ourselves and our children. I am looking forward to the new adventure that awaits us in November. Thank you
The last part about how often do you drink is key. A lot of Americans don't drink ever. Probably around a 1/3rd or so. As somebody who drinks with supper every night, I'm in the top tier of drinkers in the United States. If the alcohol industry had to rely on people like me, it would still collapse economically. That's kind of scary.
In England we finish high school at 16, on the very last day of school all the kids from the other schools in the area came to meet in my town at the beach and everyone was drinking. When the police got there they didn’t take drinks off of anyone and told us to go into a field across the road to stay out of the public eye 😂
Thank you so much for pointing out the complexities of the issue! All those legal restrictions are fairly blunt tools, aren't they? Nobody turns into a responsible person all of a sudden simply because the calendar says it's their birthday. No particular blood alcohol content indicates whether a specific person is able to drive a car safely. In an ideal world, young people would be allowed to experiment with intoxicating substances at minimum risk. There would be ways to get home safely without having to work heavy machinery. There would be societal support for people with early indications of addiction problems. Yeah, I'm dreaming...
The UK is kind of relaxed outside of legally mandated establishments. I was having wine with dinner and shandy (beer mixed with lemonade) very young. My parents made sure to monitor our consumption and when I was old enough to go out to a pub on my own at 18 it wasn't that big a deal. I've been drunk a few times, but not often. I can also remember being 15 or so and having a friend round and drinking a few cans of beer as we played D&D. My parents weren't home and didn't mind as long as we didn't drink too much. Parental guidance rather than judgement goes a long way towards responsibility. America is kind of weird at times, calling themselves the land of the free but restricting stuff most other countries don't have a problem with.
Hello Ashton! Thank you for this video. Comparing Germany there are some factors that have also an influence about young people drink and not driving: - The cost of a driving license and the amount of effort in training to get one. A German driving license costs about € 2.000,- and it takes 12+ training lessons in a driving school plus 12+ practical driving trainings. It can take half a year to get a license on a busy schedule. That is a major effect. - Teens can start driving already at an age of 17 under adult (parental) guidance. So the first year the teens get their expierence on driving a car under control of a parent. - the amount of effort to get a license back can be complicated. If it is not the first act of being caught driving drunk, a license can be kept until the driver is certified in a hard psychological test. The rate of failure is incredible high, so absolutely noone (except some silly lunatics) risks to loose their license forever because nowadays a car driving license is an absolutely dependency for geting a job. - getting a license includes a trial period of two years. In this two years any minor misuse of driving (too fast, red lights, even wrong parking and of course driving drunk) can delete the license of the youngster. Ig you loose it, you start at zero which means you pay the high rate for training another. And after passing the tests, the trial period starts again. by the way: getting caught drunk on a bicycle can take your license away as well.
You brought up a very important difference between US and Europe. Available public transportation, and driving. I have met a lot of people in various parts of Europe, and they don't drive, or don't have a vehicle. I am old enough that I remember a 19 y/o drinking age when I graduated high school. Strangely enough, not as many 19 y/o drunk drivers as compared to adults. I feel it is more a responsibility issue and not as much an age issue. We, as a culture, tent to focus on what we can't have and obsess in trying to achieve it. I have seen other, more relaxed cultures where things are not as desired if they are not "taboo" and pose less of a problem. And you also mentioned penalties. We can be a little too forgiving for breaking the laws when it comes to DUI. Losing a license is not as big a deal as losing a vehicle. You can drive without a license, even though it is illegal. It is much harder to drive without a car.
I'm 52 y/o guy from Madrid, a city with 3.5 million people, in the center of the 4th biggest metropolitan area in Europe. 12 subway lines, 300 subway stations, 225 bus lines, 2200 buses running every day, 25 nocturnal (00:30 - 06:00) bus lines with about 100 buses available every 20 minutes... never *EVER* felt the urge to get a driving license. On the other side, our city has only 30 km (18 miles) of diameter, so there's a whole country out there where you need to drive to get around. There's almost no public transportation outside of the bigger 10 cities, but there have been big campaigns about alcohol consumption at TV in the last 40 years. Accidents have decreased, 18000 km of highways have been built, roads are safer, but we still have another 250.000 kilometres of local roads and too many stupid youngsters.
Anti-drunk driving ads in NYC frequently feature the subway because it is the most extensive public transportation system in the United States. When I moved to the Bay Area, it was just a rather kill joy message that buzzed driving is drunk driving. Nothing about taking BART into SF and home, etc.
I mean the issue is that if you take away the car you essentially take away a person’s ability to sustain themselves monetarily. You are essentially making people destitute if you enforce such an aggressive policy which realistically won’t move the needle a ton with the DUI’s bc it’s not usually a rational decision
@badart3204 Why do you think you need to take away cars to have public transportation? People in Europe/East Asia are not taken away their car. Some of them choose to not own a car because they don't need it. Most Americans HAVE NO CHOICE BUT to own a car. Isn't that ridiculus? I would much rather only drvie my car for fun, not to have myself stuck in traffic every day.
I taught my sons (I have only a daughter-in-law) to drink beer responsibly when they were about 16. So far the results have been good. The older one drinks only a couple times per year, he's busy with a family. The younger son does drink a little more often, usually only with his friends. He spends his money to his computer gaming system and other nice little things rather than alcohol.
I definitely agree think that the biggest issue in the us with drunk driving is that you HAVE to drive to get around. if you are at your house or a friend's house and want to or need to go somewhere else, you have to drive (in the past few years, delivery services and taxi apps like uber have been a very good alternative); while in most of Europe, you can walk or take public transit. being able to drink before being able to drive is definitely another huge thing. it doesn't really matter if you are getting hammered in your house when you can't drive and therefore can't drunk drive
I'm from Manitoba and Alberta in Canada. Our legal drinking age is 18. I can't even imagine the criminal record I would have racked up between 18 and 21 for "underage drinking" if I lived in the states. The very idea and absurdity that you're not allowed to buy or consume alcohol until the ripe old age of 21 still blows my mind.
I think, Germany does it pretty well. There is a difference between "hard liquor" and low level alcohol types (beer and most wines). The limits are 16 years for low, 18 years for higher levels. If I should guess it has to do with the driving culture too: From 16 on you can have a small motor cycle / "mofa/moped" licence, from 18 on you can drive real cars. There are discussions around that but people are allowed to vote on "lower" levels (more regional once) from 16 on, country wide elections ("higher once") are for 18 years and up. You can mary with 18 years and above. You are fully legally responsible with 18, before that there is "youth right" meaning, your parents are more involved in any legal stuff you do. All the limits are pretty much connected to each other. Are the teens who get hard liquor? Yes there are, but most just dring beer. Is it because of punishment? Not really, it is about not being able to easily get harder liquor, because most often the stores are going to be punished for selling not the minors are going to be punished as hard. If you allow certain kinds of "harmful" substances, it is a good idea to let people learn to cope with it especially if they are allowed to handle firearms or deadly tools like cars. Being drunk and driving a car for the "first" time? (meaning less experience) => bad idea.
Mid European here. As a former 15yro, yes. We do drink, a lot. But I don't remember a single person (w/wo) driving license that would go back while behind the wheel. We walked back. Or called a cab. Or that one sober friend. Generally speaking.
I've never even tried alcohol. Just never interested me and I had alcoholic parents. That said, I usually shy away from videos on the topic, but your presentation, being a LOT more academic, wins all the prizes!!
I took a few sips in high school and on a few occassions. I realised that alcohol tastes like shit to me so I started wondering why are people into that 😂
@andreydoronin6995It's an acquired taste - you get more and more out of it the more you try it. It's also mixed in with the positive aspects of social outings and the relaxation of nerves
Even though the US has a lower average alcohol consumption per capita the rates of alcoholism are much higher than in most European countries (13,9% in the US vs 6,9% in Germany).
True. However, it is a well recognised fact in the medical (and mental health) community that when diagnosing alcoholism cultural norms do play a role. So, when this is accounted for, the numbers might be closer together. (Although it is my personal belief that the number for the US would be higher still, I attribute this belief to my personal bias against how the US handles certain things in general... in this case, the attitude towards alcohol consumption and related matters.)
@artforz That's exactly what I was alluding to. I live in Austria (which is not that different in that regard - in fact, it might be even more common here).
Really love all the work you put in and your essay style. My short time living and working overseas I definitely saw a difference in binge drinking, and specifically alcohol abuse, when compared to the US. The culture as a whole seemed more responsible, even though I did a considerable amount of drinking while there. I remember listening to a teenager say during dinner "no more for me, I'm feeling a bit buzzed already" they had already learned their limits from drinking with their families
Coming from a EU country with 0.2‰ limit, it was very easy for us especially at young age to decide if you want to drive or not :) 1 regular beer gets you above the allowed limit (or borderline if you wait long enough) so you don't dive, and plan to have alternative way home if you had ANY. There are no semi-drunk guys trying to decide if they are fit to drive after already drunk 3-4 beers. You make that decision upfront since the first one makes decision for you. It's practical in a way, from perspective of small town person with no local public transport or taxis/uber around: you organise your logistics back home while you order your first beer if you don't have one already e.g. while still being sober. If you had already a few lets be honest, ability to make good decisions goes down pretty quick, so simple math like helps here :)
As a Canadian, I sometimes feel that we fall between the USA and Europe with regards to drinking. Like the USA, we are a car culture as well and with poor public transit so I'm not surprised that we have as many, if not more, DUI and accidents as the USA. We also issue driving licenses at 16 with drinking at 18. Like many have said, young Americans like to drink before 21 and Hollywood shows that all the time. This makes sense. You're an adult. You can vote. You can be in the military. You are finished high school and might be working in some permanent job. Yet you can't drink? I would be tempted to drink long before I turned 21. In Canada you find that temptation in the 17 year old cohort primarily. Less so with 16 year olds as they are often still under parental "control" at that age. They're just entering high school so are just evolving from being elementary school kids. On another note, considering the easy access to firearms in the USA, then it might be a good thing that drinking doesn't kick in until age 21.
One important thing you miss about Europe/Germany is, that we have the idea that parents should teach children how to deal with all things in life and this also includes the use of alcohol. Why shoud kids or young adults get drunk with strangers first and not be tought by their parents how to drink resposibly..
Yup. Pretty common to be allowed to drink as much beer as you want by your parents for your 14th birthday or so. And you get to clean up the next morning.
That 21 year old drinking age and the aggressive populist campaigns must be that „freedom“ thing Americans like to boast about so much. Greetings from unfree Europe (where we actually have much more freedom in most areas of living)
But they can freedom drive with 16 (I just imagine a 16 year old on the outskirt of Brescia in a Cosworth) and then that other thin with guns too, they are so responsible
Maybe a more appropriate consideration would be the individualism in the US vs the European sense of communal identity. The US tends to have this delusional idea of “individualism” and “self-made”, neither of which are really true. Europeans, from what I understand stand, have more of a collective sense of identity and thus aren’t as repulsed by social safety nets, etc., as Americans. Could it be at least partially that this sense of responsibility to one’s community at least subconsciously helps dissuade people from putting others at risk by engaging in risky behavior? After all, we do not make decisions in a vacuum, we make them within the framework of our personal worldviews.
@texaszag8748 the main difference is the definition of freedom. Of course these are all generalizations but there’s some truth to it: Americans tend to define freedom - as you said - through individualism. It is correct that you can choose not to pay for health care and that works as long as you are healthy. Europeans on the other hand gladly pay for compulsory health care because it takes away uncertainty. In our case freedom comes through not having to worry about the „what ifs“ in life since our societies agreed on creating systems that make almost everyone pay but also almost everyone being taken care of when in need of such services regardless of being wealthy or poor. And there are a lot of other examples like that, gun rights for example. Americans define freedom through being allowed to own and sometimes carry guns. Europeans define freedom through generally not having to be afraid of random people walking around with guns, not having to think about shooters entering schools, in Europe we’ve never been taught about those scenarios at school because they simply almost never happened. I fully agree with your comment, the American individualism comes with a lot of downsides for the general society and reduces the overall freedom while European conformism - if you want to call it like that - creates a common freedom in your everyday life, as in not having to worry about many things a lot of Americans have to worry about.
@tarant315 I mean since in many European countries driving with 17 has been a thing for more than 15 years now it’s not much of a difference anymore. In Germany you can drive with 17 as long as a parent (or someone who’s registered to drive with you) is on the passenger seat and in case you for example have to drive to work or vocational school there are exceptions that can allow you driving alone with 17 on a predefined route (which you mustn’t leave otherwise you’re not allowed to drive alone). So I don’t see much of a difference anymore. The main difference is that a German drivers license requires much more theory lessons and practical lessons and costs more than 3000€ these days
When we were at dinner in Tuscany with several families the teens asked if they could drink wine at dinner. I replied certainly, but one of. Y physician friends would pour. They had a glass of wine with dinner. So did the adults. I told them that’s how one is to drink-as a complement to a dinner. “You didn’t see any of your parents over drinking or getting drunk. That is how adults act.” I hope you can grow up to be such wonderful people as your parents.”
I grew up in Switzerland and from age 16-20 frequently went out with friends in the city. It would probably be considered "binge-drinking" but always felt quite safe: Low crime rate and easy walks/transit home through the night. Most parents were cool with it too, so we could safely have gatherings/parties at our homes. Of course I never had to think about driving a single time and didn't get my drivers licence until I was 21. Licences here also have a strict probationary period of 3 years, discouraging drunk driving.
Kudos on your cross-cultural observations!! I think there is a distinction to be made about family rituals in each culture and how they may shape our understanding about drinking culture. I grew up in two cultures: one French-speaking, the other English-speaking. In the French environment, the European convention of offering younger teens wine or beer at special family dinners and formal occasions is common; this reality is sometimes a bit of a culture shock for an English-speaking teen from the US or another province of Canada. What I find fascinating is the cultural dynamic at play when this happens. It’s not so much which cultural group is the bigger binge-drinker so much as the importance that drinking has on the ritual of eating with friends and family. My observation: English-speaking North Americans, Britons, Australians and New Zealanders may have a greater tendency to drink for the sake of drinking; Europeans (including French-speaking Canadians) grow up learning that drinking helps to balance, complement or even enhance the dining experience. Think how the French have an alcoholic pairing for almost any dish. In that way, perhaps, young Europeans learn early on how to manage their alcoholic consumption because it’s so closely tied to family rituals, social acceptance and food culture, whereas in more English-speaking environments, drinking is both historically and culturally associated with a negative frame of reference, such as temperance laws, alcoholism, addiction and that drunk relative that has once again fallen off the wagon.
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I’m Italian and I lived for a year in L.A. when I was 22yrs old. Me and my other Italian friends were completely blown away by the fact that every single night you would find some college students so drunk they literally lied on the floor outside the club or pub, especially a lot of girls. We had been drinking since we were 14 yrs old and by the time we were 22 we all knew our limits and we would get drunk, sure, but never so utterly wasted as to lose our balance completely.
Frightening. Any body who gets blackout drunk in public becomes an easy target for crime, 'just' theft if you're lucky, violence or abuse if you're not. (Followed up by victim blaming, as if you getting drunk would excuse opportunistic violence.)
I must still be a bit naive, because I'm surprised that a club would just let people pass out drunken right outside the door. I get it that they don't want to spend money to have their own little drunk tank, but here in Germany I would (and have in the past) call either the police or an emergency vehicle if I find somebody unresponsive.
Your way is what I seen in Germany as a young Soldier. The young Germans weren't the falling down drunk types at all. Us GI's had that market cornered. Germans don't mind some drinking, but they don't tolerate total intoxication and the bad behaviors that go along with it. They call a drunk a drunk, and there was a social stigma if you were that guy. Peace.
Well said! Totally agree.
@wyomarine6341 Falling down from windows and Tevere bridges parapets seems to be the most common cause of death among young US tourists here in Rome. Never heard or read about autopsy examinations on that poor people, but I'd bet their blood alcohol level would have been found to be VERY high.
ye here in britain i will often sit down and have i pint with my dad since i was little i would get asked if i wanted a sip of his tennents or whatever he liked at the time i would allways say it tastes awfull and prefferd to have a small glass of cider usally kopperberg or shandy (yes i know a shandy has beer in it but it was sweeter) occasionally at christmas time or when we go on holiday.
For me as german, the gap between 16 and 18 was important because we did most of our drinking excesses in that time. So when I got my driving license, I had already stopped drinking so much.
yeah in Slavic countries we often joke that by the time Americans are allowed to drink at 21 most of slavs give up excessive drinking :)
@nicktankard1244 that isnt even a joke in my case, like i just stopped drinking in excess when somewhere around 18-19
Yeah I know what you mean here in Canada the legal drinking age is 18 but I stared officially drinking at 25. That being said I am 35 now and I won't lie it does not have the same appeal it did when I was in my mid 20s. Granted I also approached it as best I could in order to avoid being an alcoholic. Like even today I am super mega hyper focused on if I cross the line and become an alcoholic also side note I still can't drive yet lol. So drinking and driving was not a big issue for me. And I hope to God it does not become a concern.
that time period is also a great time to kill brain cells by drinking
@mimi078-f3p Yup, I stopped smoking and drinking by the time I was 18. Now I drink 4 beers per year or something like that.
The question isn't "Why do Europeans let minors drink?" it's "Why do Americans prohibit adults from drinking?"
lol 😂 yeah, it the country of the Free isn't it ?
there should be tiktok-compilations about how 'murricans are so much freeer than europeans, russians asians and africans & south americans... and austAliens 👽
Yeah, they can go to war, drive, do porn but can't have a beer. That doesen't ad up
@berndb3141 You left out buying guns.
Stopp saying European. There exist no such thing german laws are not laws fir qll of Europe. There is no European as American.
@Rikard_Adon't say American. There is no such thing as American. Not everyone has us law
American logic:
Drinking at 18❌
Going to a battlefield✅✅✅
I remember when I went to the US for the first time, I was 19 years old and my peers were obsessed with alcohol because it was taboo.
it was quite obvious that the law achieved the opposite of what it intended
The main issue here, I think, is the alcohol dependency. DUI is often associated with alcoholic drivers. Starting to drink at lower ages increases the risk of becoming an alcoholic, at least from what I see around. The people that I know as alcoholics started to (constantly) drink early and they could not kick the habit later.
That is similar to my experience when I lived in the US as a 16/17 yearold. However when I visited when I was older and my Friends were Collage age, I did Not experience the Hollywood movie Style Fratparty bingedrinking.
There were people who clearly did not know their Limit but that was mit the Norm.
As to 'drinking habits' I feel Like that is also Dependance on your upbringing and maybe your age.
I myself (as an 80s/90s Kid) drink almost never and only when I am with my Friends. I used to Drink a bit more when I was at University, as I was more often Out with Friends.
And I See the Same with my Friends, even those who drank quite a bit Back in the Uni-days drink Just one Beer or a glas of wine the hole evening nowadays. ... Well we all got Family and Jobs and so on, so WE cannot be irresponsible as much as we could when we were twenty.
Different topic: When I Heard the 'just say no' statement, I thought "well Why don't they 'Just say no' to gun violence?" If IT 'works' for drugs, Alkohol and premarital Sex it should work for gun violence as Well, right?😇
@nondimensional4977well...science so far is not decided on the matter.
My personal experience is that the age doesn't matter, the social souroundings on the other hand do.
@nondimensional4977 Another point to consider is that young people in the US start binge drinking as soon as they are allowed to buy and consume alcoholic beverages to "make up" for the time they weren't allowed but wanted to; possibly starting the experience with hard drinks.
And because they are legally adults at this point, parents can't rein in the same way like - ideally - German parents can with their 16 year old kids who start with light drinks in a more controlled environment.
@nondimensional4977 It could also be that people drinking heavily while younger, and then end up as alcoholics, had/have other reasons for drinking and becoming dependent on it. Dependency on alcohol and drugs is often correlated with mental health and other factors like home-life.
My parents had a much more European attitude towards drinking. My brother and I were allowed to have a glass of wine or a beer with Sunday dinner or a Holiday meal as young as 14/15. I think they wanted to teach us about responsible drinking in a safe environment.
Amen
Dinner and meal are the keywords here. In all the Mediterranean countries this is a common rule. Never drink with an empty stomach. Drink while eating, slowly while talking with other people,. In Greece, I have seen many parents allowing their kids to sip wine even at the age of 9 or 10 at the table and slowly as they grow up letting have a beer or a glass of wine with them.
Same here. My German born grandmother would allow us to have a glass of wine with our Christmas meal and she would put the liqueur, cream de menthe on our ice cream
@tyxeri48 In Germany or France this isn't only related to a supervised dinner and meal with your family! It has more to do with freedom and trust, so it is widely extended to peers and friends. While in Germany you got a focus on "Feierabend"/quitting time of your work, in France it is focussed on whole days like Wednesdays and Mondays. In Germany, Mondays are often times free, too, but not really celebrated like the Sunday. Wine and beer are both related to Christianity culturally, so it was common to drink after the social gathering and of a fine quality. So, the regular age limit regulated by families and individuals not the government was about 14 years. While Continental Europe remained more culturally conservative, the US had an ongoing fight against traditional and real conservativism since the 1930's. That's where this destroyed anomic (anti-christian) culture with no real trust and limit comes from. On average, it isn't because of the long witholding period. The US developed themselves towards drinking cheap booze and commercialization, also with British-American companies (later Russian oligarchs). Take a look how Mexicans consume let's say Tequila and what the imported stuff is about. In the US, it is also more related to British/Irish pubs, which had their roots in Taverns and Inns with also very cheap til unhealthy booze. The German Kneipen were historically similar, but not about unhealthy booze and more a man thing. They only later turned to be an organization for Socialists, extended to regulating or not regulating booze. On average, they remain trustworthy in regard of what to sell and the amount, while the costumer is also more aware. In the US, you don't have that awareness on average.
My parents were like that too. I remember sitting at the kitchen table at 14 with relatives over, I was asked if I wanted a beer which I accepted.
The problem with drinking in America is you need a car to get literally anywhere
Excellent point.
Well... In UK and France and some other, you're allowed to drive if you drank less than a certain amount. Problem solved 🤣
An average sedan has 5 seats. One driver and 4 passengers. Somebody has to give up dringing each night and enjoy getting "drunk" by sugar overdose from coke. Able drivers can rotate on voluntary base. Unreliable members don't get to drive at all even if they are sober. Those were our rules and we arrived home every time both in summer and in snowstorms.
There is an alternative approach: The most drunk guy gets to drive home. He doesn't care about his license anyway.
Which option is better?
@filippopotame3579 That's why so many adults drive under the influence of alcohol.
Not much different from rural Germany. The clubs are in the cities, and if you plan to return late at night on a weekend using public transportation isn't an option.
old enough to die in war, but not old enough to drink... ok
Yeah, those two things are completely different things.
POV : when you're a war veteran but still cannot drink a beer...
And you can legally own gun but you can't legally buy beer. Assuming you pass background check if there is one of course.
Add to that, you're allowed to drive a vehicle which has te capability of harming and even killing dozens when handled carelessly, but have to wait 5 more years for a beer.
Remember reading about Vietnam veterans complaining to that, as they were allowed to get drafted & shoot people, but after returning back - they weren't allowed to have a drink with their friends.
Think the one citing this also mentioned that was his argument, to his CO, about why he wanted to get back to the war. 🤔
@ll4PILLARSllplus: people are allowed to operate that vehicle without proper, thorough and extensive training and testing, both theoretical and practical, before they can obtain the licence to operate said vehicle.
Just look at the extensive German process for getting a licence. And at how quickly you can lose the licence (suspension and/or revoking) if you disobey the rules, especially when drinking.
For example, any new driver is on probation for two years, no matter the age. Almost any transgression of the rule will result in the revocation of your licence - and you have to do the whole process again. Months of training. Thousands of Euros.
Afterwards there’s a layered system that will result in various consequences, depending on severity and frequency of the transgression. Monetary fines and accumulated strike-out points will result in license suspension for short or long periods - and even to a loss of your licence. And once it’s lost due to too many transgressions it’s even possible that the driver has to pass a medical and psychological evaluation to prove that he’s mentally fit to operate a vehicle.
Drivers have quite an incentive to behave well, I guess
@UltraCasualPenguin A beer has no potential to save you live, a gun does. Drop the BS with guns because most EU Countries allow gun ownership too. Germany for example allows people 18+ to purchase / possess a gun.
As a German that now lives in Australia I found that there was a vast difference between why my Aussie friends drink to my German once. Australians seem to drink to get drunk and German get drunk because they drink (obviously a complete generalisation). For my German friends it seem to be a by product of the social side of drinking whereas for Australians its seem to be the goal.
I drink often. And my goal is never to get drunk. But that wasn't the case when I was a kid or young adult. Now, I never want to get drunk. One time, while traveling I had a layover in Atlanta, and went to the Delta Sky Club, where I drank 5 gin Martinis. When they asked if I wanted another, I said, "No thanks. Give me a beer. I don't want to get drunk."
@Bobthebuild5 IDK since maybe you're American where shit light beers are prominent but a good alchohol is amazing.
@Bob-bs9okI’m German and me and basically all my friends wouldn’t drink any alcohol if it wouldn’t get us drunk, because it just tastes horrible or at least worse than juice alone or just a nice softdrink.
I still don’t understand how someone can enjoy the taste of something this horrible when everything tastes better without it.
@zekiz774you just haven't found your drink yet, I guess... or alcohol really isn't for you. But a really good beer or wine or something stronger like cognac or whisky... that's such a pleasure...
I do think most 16-18 year olds do drink alcohol to get drunk here in germany. I do get what you mean though. Drinking alcohol together is just part of the culture at that point.
And the older you get, the more you aquire a taste for alcohol and you can genuinely enjoy a freshly poured beer more than some sugary soft drink.
In Denmark, we do not punish people for drinking. We just take the car and driving license when you drive home drunk afterwards.
Sounds very logical to me.
Is that not a form of punishment? 🤔
@arturotaratungoro not for drinking, but for driving drunk.
@arturotaratungoro not for drinking. only for driving when drunk.
@arturotaratungoro It is society's reaction to a citizen not living up to the responsibility required to drive responsibly and legally in traffic. Very logical
a 18 year old european is often more responsible around alcohol than a 21 year old american is.
So it seems. And as European drinking is usually beer or wine, US drinking seems to be more consuming hard liquers, like Bourbon, Cognag or rum. But the biggest difference seems to be that Americans get toxicated with medics and drugs more than Alcohol when European toxication is more alcohol based. So I'd say Americans are drug addicts and European are alcohilists, in general at least. Most Americans I have seen are Drug addicts, and I haven't even visited the new continent.
@mikkorenvall428 US doesnt consume more hard liqour lol . Young Americans mostly drink to get drunk and take it too far compared to the rest .
European kids aren't any smarter. They just learn their limis slower and earlier.
It's like teen pregnancies in the US are way more frequent despite a higher age of consent and way bigger social pressure to no sex before marriage. Teenagers are gerenally eager to get to be doing "adult stuff" and the letter of the law is the least of their concerns - and prohibition or is correlated with higher levels of risk taking.
@mikkorenvall428u forgot about slavic countries and balkans, seeing teenagers drinking excessive amounts of vodka/rakia is totally normal
I'm from Denmark, and I feel that learning to drink responsibly from an early age allows you to be smarter about it. I have never driven drunk, or done (incredibly) stupid things while drunk, or blacked out from drinking (stupid acts / blackouts are common stories among Danes), even when binge drinking, and I think that's because my parents taught how to appreciate drinking rather than just binging to binge, and I think that is common with a lot of people - learning to drink from trustworthy adults makes you more responsible when drinking.
You have (insanely high) taxes to prevent you from binge-drinking.
We don't.
@bluerisk True, but we have equally high wages, so it balances out somewhat.
With a big smile: I imagine an American watching Danes at the Danish- German border.
You might think, Danish might be drown in alcohol, followed by Swedish citizens coming to Kiel or Puttgarden.
Masses of beer and wine, to consume carefully when at home having a good meal.❤
@bluerisk
We got higher wages, even as kids, to be able to buy our alcohol.
@kasperkjrsgaard1447 You have child labour to finance your alcohol consumption?! It's worse than I thought...
Ha i never thought about that if you are drunk in America somewhere in the wild you are basicly screwed because the lack of public transportation.
That’s why one person, the driver, doesn’t drink and the rest can. I also don‘t have public transportation after 11 PM
@katharinamarschall5662Yea. I live in Norway and grew up in a small village outside a city. We often went to the city in the weekends to party. No public transport home, so we had 1 friend not driving.
I worked at an American summer camp in the late 90s when in the UK drink driving was very socially disapproved of by teen-agers in my rural area, when drinking at 16 was normal.
I was shocked by how normal drink driving was at the summer camp.
I don't know if this is still the case.
Cycling Under the Influence is also illegal in the states, so bicycling drunk can get you arrested.
@alenliawoerner6858 I think drink in charge of a bicycle is an offence in the uk but it isn't related to a blood alcohol level, more to ability to ride.
My first duty station as active duty US military was in Germany. I was just barely 20yrs of age. I had been drinking illegally in the US on an irregular social level already. So when I found that I could legally drink in my new location - drinking got boring. Or at least, the thrill of just having alcohol was gone. Now. Germany. Awesome food. Including some great beers and wonderful wines and delicious liquors. I didn't stop drinking - I still consumed alcohol at a very moderate social pace. But I was drinking to enjoy the experience... not for the thrill of the act. It was very, very rare that I got outright drunk.
I also got to watch cultures clash on alcohol. One of the awesome things about my Germany experience was the fests. Town got sacked during a medieval war? Let's blame the pigs, slaughter a bunch for roasting, and turn it in to a fest! Sun came up? Sounds like a fest! Every fest tended to have carnival games and rides. Food. And the beer and wine tents. Alcohol flowed liberally in to the crowd. And I rarely saw someone absolutely blitzed. Merry. Loud. Drinking with a lust for life. All that, yes. But keeled over in drunken sickness... almost never (almost). It seemed like it was totally uncool. And the US GIs would coach the newbies to not embarrass us all to the locals.
Back in the barracks, some fresh-off-the-plane kid just out from under Mom's apron strings might be praying to the head. And some might think that kind of thing had some degree of bravado to it. But it seemed like that was newbie thinking. The real coolness was slamming down some cool German brews and knowing when to stop so you got to keep 'em and remember the experience (most of the time). Or at least, not get so blitzed that one embarrassed the team out in public in front of the locals.
Talking with teen locals and GI brats - the binge culture didn't seem to be encouraged. They got drunk. Those that drank liked to drink for sure. But as best as I could tell the American party animal just wasn't in the youth culture either. Even if they thought the red solo cups were cool.
Does this all pan out with others' experiences? I dunno. I hit 21 while still in Germany (no legal binge party - who cares) and had long outgrown the pearl-clutching moral panic over alcohol by the time I left Germany for points unknown. Though when I did have my own daughter hit the age of aclohol... well... I had different lessons for her. And I never once felt the need to reach for the pearls. And never have felt kinship with those that do.
I’m German and to me it felt similar. Alcohol and drinking was something to enjoy, to celebrate life, not to get wasted. Getting wasted was pretty uncool in my region and time as well, even when we just started drinking (at 14-16).
"So when I found that....I could legally drink " In Hungary, they say that you wish for what is forbidden, you want to get it.
This can be true for many things..
YESS finally someone acknowledging our cuisine
Decent comment, love it
German here - big thank you for your comment. I would actually connect the ideas in it more with Southern Europe or parts of France, but i'm happy that you found this to be part of our German culture.
Especially when you mentioned your military background i thought, when a country allows young people to carry guns or to drive a tank in the military, they should also trust these young people to drink responsibly...
1:01 - its only 14 if you are guided by a parent. Otherwise its 16 for beer and wine and everything else is 18+
In mexico even though the law says alcohol drinking age is 18 quite some people drink before 18 and in some places you can even buy alcohol without an ID
In the US the prohibition is for purchasing alcohol, mainly, I'm not sure how it would be in a family.
True, that was also why I got confused.
As a German I had my first glass of champagne on New Year's Eve when I was 13. My first glass of beer when I was 14 with a girlfriend under the supervision of her mother. All the adults in my young life have always handled alcohol very responsibly. There were never any excesses. Nobody drove drunk. I think that's why I drink not so much (some glasses of wine with dinner) and when I do, I drink responsibly, because I was shown how to do it. Plus the fact, as you say, that my driving licence had cost €2,000 and I don't want to lose it, and I had time between the ages of 16 and 18 to learn my limit, makes it easier for me personally.
As a Mexican it’s common for some people in my country to drink since they are 14 or 15 and also small grocery stores will sell you alcohol if they know your family but bigger grocery stores like supermarkets will not sell it
You werent supervised, you were groomed into drinking. If you were supervised you wouldnt be allowed to drink, any amount of consumed alcohol is harmful for your health, aspecially as a teenager. All those excuses about not drinking too much mean nothing, you are still killing yourself slowly, just not immediately, like those who black out and fall or crash their car. You may feel like you obtained a healthy habit, but in practice you just got a wrong idea implemented in your brain, the idea that alcohol can be safe to drink. And that is a blatant lie.
@clabapcuxonabtam3072the more you forbid people to do something, the more you drive them to doing something. Not allowing something isn’t the answer.
On average Europeans live longer than Americans. It’s all about moderation, and sound mental health of the individual is important.
@clabapcuxonabtam3072Did you know that oxygen kills you too? It’s toxic and accelerates cell death.
Even more shocking! There is a statistic correlation between religion and alzheimers!!
You should never even consider Jesus or a smidgeon of spirituality because it’s unhealthy and WILL kill you! And you should never be supplied oxygen when you’re in critical condition because natural oxygen levels in the air are already bad enough for your health!!!
Calm down.
Alcohol is bad for you, obviously, but a single beer or 20 spread over a year will have LITERALLY ZERO impact on your health. Now if you drink 20 beers in a single night on an empty stomach you might suffer serious acute damage to your body.
I have pictures of a 4 year old me having a sip of beer. Maybe the reason I never liked it.
I'm British, and I think my earliest memory of drinking alcohol was when I was 9 and had a few sips of champagne on New Years 2000, and then when I was in my teens I was occasionally allowed alcohol like cider with a pub meal, or some Bailey's during Christmas.
Being allowed it in a controlled way when younger than I was able to buy it myself meant I never had the urge to binge drink at parties. Whenever I see the stereotypical American college alcohol consumption it's beer bongs and really strong punch.
I'd not consider this as a general thing for brits. A British friend of mine started drinking with 11, and she's the most hyped person for heavy drinking I know, even when grown up.
And I really don't see how having fun at getting insanely drunk at parties has anything to do with being introduced to alcohol by your parents in a "responsible" way (starting with 9 is too early tho, no offense)
American here, but my parents took the same approach. letting me try a sip of all sorts of different alcoholic beverages took all the mystery out of it, so I never had the urge to go out and experiment with alcohol.
I was offered a beer by my mother when I was 15 and puked as a result of drinking it. To this day, I may have a beer every six months or so but feel no need for it. The same goes with cigarettes. I smoked when I was 17, got bronchitis, and cigarettes lost their appeal. You could say I was innoculated.
@Ray25689 Starting at 9 isn't that early when it's only a small amount, considering historical consumption of low alcohol beer.
It's not like they were giving me pints every day, but a half of cider that's only 4% with a meal isn't at all a big deal.
Some people act like even a little bit will be damaging but in low amounts, especially not on an empty stomach, it's absolutely safe. The real issue is young teens sharing a big bottle of strong cider or vodka on a park bench rather than a small glass as a treat in the home or at a special event.
@G1NZOU bruh. 9 is insanely early, that's elementary school
In Southern Europe, wine is always present. It is very common to drink wine with meals, since we were children we see our parents and grandparents drink wine and they gradually introduce you and teach you how to drink it and enjoy it. In Southern Europe drinking is a social act, very few people drink alone and only the very young drink to get drunk.
It’s one of the few types of alcohol to have some health benefits as it has antioxidants like resveratrol that can promote cardiovascular health.
Oh well. Good that you stated that, I don’t want to misinform people. I guess I should have researched better.
Doesn't happen nowadays, but kids from northeast of Portugal took for breakfeast slices of bread in a bowel of wine.
It was suppose to warm up the body during winter time
Some of them get drunk to school 😁
@lxportugal9343Wine soups with bread were common in all wine-producing regions. Of course it is not advisable to give a child that kind of food, but that food is better than nothing..., and it was discounted wine
@allergy5634 Take those studies and shove them where the sun don't shine. Nobody takes away our Alcohol, not even the Universe itself.
14:00 They forgot no guns on their slogan.
Ouch 😂
The “drunk driving” argument exposes an obvious issue: In a car-dependent society (such as most of the USA) where most pubs are neither within walking distance nor reachable by public transit, DUI incidents are just bound to happen. There’s an infamous term “functioning alcoholic”, often used in the USA, where there are in fact almost *zero* functioning alcoholics, considering that “functioning alcoholism” implies DUI in the USA. DUI is *not* a “functioning” situation by any standard. Elsewhere in the world, walkable neighborhoods (or crawlable neighborhoods for certain folks) with good public transit coverage make DUI incidents way less likely.
yet another way how strong civil infrastructure and proper methods of city planning help make for a better society
sadly in america the land of the late stage capitalist hellscape where car manufacturer are more influencial than breweries car culture is so mainstream that without one you are basically stuck in a city while in a more developed country even a hobo could catch a bus to a different city with minimal effort
Crawlable neighborhoods, had a good laugh, been there
@michaelkulakov9716 The next big city design revolution will see a switch from hard materials like concrete to more accommodating materials like cushions to make it even more accessible and safe:) No crawling necessary
Being "responsible drinker" doesn't only mean amount, it means how it harms others. If after 8 beers you still don't sit behind the wheel of a car even if you had the opportunity, you are more responsible drinker than one that sits behind one after 2.
Or take responsibility for the known factors of if you at a location only assessable by a car you have committed premeditated DUI
If you had to drive to the bar -what’s your plan to get home after planning to consume alcohol in public
I'd rather see a 16 yo with beer in the hand, than a 16 yo with a steering wheel...
The Danish youth (age 15-25) are the biggest consumers of alcohol in the given age range, and alcohol is extremely common, but the thought of DUI is an insane risk, not only for other people's safety, but also the huge consequences if you get caught. I honestly don't know anybody within my friend group who have driven drunk. We are also a culture of people planning in advance, so most people have a plan on how they will get home safe before going out.
Hmm, wonder if it is the US car centric stuff that makes it such a big problem. Drunk bicycling only risk your own life after all.
@meanmanturbo It is definitely an inflammatory factor, the distance between suburbs and bars may also play a factor. I'm Swedish but the idea of a designated driver have always just been weird to me. If we were going out drinking, nobody would bring a car. We'd just take the bus to the city and the bus back home sometime after midnight. If public transit isn't available (a result of car-centricism) and the distance from home to pub is large enough (due to zoning) I could see many taking the risk. I believe the US also have a higher blood alcohol level allowed compared to most / if not all European nations. Probably to allow an adult to enjoy a beer and still be able to drive home, which may cause some over-drinking contributing to the statistics.
As a personal anecdote in the case of Fenno-Scandinavia I'd argue that we tend to preach individual responsibility more rather than babysitting by the Government in issues on a social level. A lot of our laws or in some cases lack of laws surrounding topics rely more on people not being dicks so laws or regulation don't have to be written or enforced surrounding that topic.
A bicycle can work as a walker for the trip home from a party….
Unfortunately drunk driving is still quite common in Lithuania. Consequences are there, but it's almost cultural to ignore all that and do it anyway. A lot of people plan around, but still it kinda has cultural status of being almost like no big deal. Some famous people aren't even judged by society harshly for that.
@meanmanturboIndirectly, a drunk cyclist might cause an accident--perhaps even a fatality.
I've never heard of that,though....
15:50 key word is *report* here. In places where it isn’t illegal to drink for them, people are more likely to admit it than in places where they could get in trouble for admitting they have been (binge) drinking.
Was about to comment the same thing myself. You are absolutely right on that.
This...Absolutely this. Using a data model based on reported social norms is more a study of social philosophy and perceived morality than the subject data itself
What? an *anonymous* piece of paper or internet questinnaire would scare you from writing that you have been (binge) drinking?
@albertnielsen1154If you think that an anonymous questionnaire is actually anonymous you are a fool, plain and simple. Unless you’re using programmes that most regular people don’t, you will be able to be linked to the answers you have given.
I missed the strange fact that the USA has a much higher percentage of alcohol related death in traffic WHILE also having a higher limit on what is considered driving under the influence of alcohol. So probably the percentage of alcohol related incidents is even higher if you use the European standards.
Car related traffic deaths per capita are multiple times higher in the US than in Germany and similar European countries, so even if we both had the same ratio of drunk driving, you'd have way more deaths related to drunk driving in the US - just through the higher road fatality rate alone.
@faultier1158i have driven a car in various US states as well as many European countries. The fact the US has a higher death toll per capita doesn’t surprise me at all!
@faultier1158 Deaths due to drunken driving per head of population in the USA in 2021 were 12 times higher than in the UK and 14 times higher than in the USA. But then, per head of population, the rate of road fatalities in the USA in 2021 was over 5 times higher than in the USA than the UK and more than 4 times higher than in Germany (and still much higher, even if you factor in increased distances driven). US road are simply a lot more dangerous than pretty well every European country.
@faultier1158 That is what I said!
Keep in mind they start driving at 16 and their driving tests are a formality.
Well what always got me, was the story of a guy who fought from the beaches of Normandy to the heart of Germany in WW2 and when he got back to NY after the war he couldn't legally get a beer, because he was only 20 years old. The way I see it: if your country says you are old enough to die for it, you are bloody well old enough to drink.
Because the bartenders in Murika (who stayed home in Kentucky to guard their barrels of bourbon from the Nazi enemies) were also the pillars of the law-abiding community and builders of CIVILIZATIONS, so help them Bachus!
That’s not true. The drinking age in NY was always 18 until the 80’s
This is dumb. Look up when the laws changed, four decades after WWII.
@khutchinsoncpa1 still if you are old and responsible enough to hold a gun (and fight for your country), you are old and responsible enough to drink.
@cnlscj8270 It wasn't NY then, who cares?
Hello from Spain! I would like to add the question of "Why do people consume alcohol in the US vs Europe?" Since at least here in Spain , we might consume a lot of beer or wine, but that's just because going out for a beer with your friends or enjoying whine in a family gathering is the most comon way of socializing .
We Americans drink to forget about the consumer and medical debt we have. 😅
@cockatooinsunglasses7492 Peak murica.
I don't drink myself, but when my friends do get themselves dead drunk, they still have the sensibility to follow the law, like not driving. Safety is so deeply ingrained into them that being "safe" is just common sense. I'm from Denmark btw, where there's no drinking age limit, only for buying alcohol.
I am Mexican and it’s common in my country to see people as young as 14 or 15 drinking and also corner stores in my country will sell you alcohol and cigarettes
I've lived in the US and Ireland. (From US now in Ireland) I think the US really struggles with the concept of moderation. I think this is true in a lot of aspects of US culture, but definitely true of alcohol consumption. In the states you're either drinking to get drunk or you don't drink at all. Despite Europe's reputation, I don't think Ireland is much better, at least with kids. Older adults here tend to be better at drinking in moderation, but people under 30 tend to binge drink as much as yunguns in the US.
For me personally, I rarely drink because of cost.
Of course much of that excess came from the idea that we were a super rich economy-look at the hard drug trade..
The concept of moderation is an elastic concept, like a friend of mine can drink 3 bottles of wine during the afternoon and Id say that is moderation, because it doesnt effect him anymore as much, a lot of people drink casually, at a café, order a beer, also despite being ilegal for minors to buy alchool, I am very certain the police here barely enforces it(if you dont kill anyone they dont enforce much at all) and I have seen 13 years old buying licor, when I was 10 years old I would go to the store to buy Tobacco for my grandfather.
@pedrorequio5515 "The concept of moderation is an elastic concept, like a friend of mine can drink 3 bottles of wine during the afternoon"
See, the thing with moderation is not how much you are able to drink, but how much doesnt attack your health in general. If you drink 3 bottles of wine even just 2 times a week, your liver and kidneys will absolutely take damage over time no matter how drunk you feel. If you drink small amounts on a regular basis, your tolerance will go up, your organs wont be affected too much because they are designed to work with small, even regular amounts of any toxin in the system. But if you just binge drink even semiregular, your organs will absolutely take damage even if you yourself dont feel drunk, because of a higher tolerance.
This is not 'elastic' this is simple biology. Alcohol is still a neuro toxin at the end of the day and it is a very effective one at that, because your overall neurologic capabilities will be affected from the very first sip, even thou you dont feel drunk due to tolerance.
@RandlerayIt's also a solvent.
The things "they" don"t tell us about these "illicits.... "
Hi Ashton, I was waiting on a video about this. I grew up in Germany, visited the US when I was not yet 21, lived in the US from 2000 till recently and now in Spain. I have kids and grandkids in the US that went through that age or are in that age range of 15-18 right now and I have a clear winner for this. The EU, hands down! Here are my reasons.
- My father was an alcoholic, so I actually didn't want to end up, like him, thus I didn't drink with my friends when partying. However, being together with 16-17 years old is very boring without alcohol.
- When I was 18, the drivers license was the ticket to get out of my village finally, so risking it for alcohol is a NONO. I always was the designated driver when we went out and I was OK with it.
- When you are 18-19 with your friends, your first love and sit in a park or along a river and have a glass of wine or a beer, makes the event so much more enjoyable then having a Coca Cola.
- Now, when I was 19 in the US, I could not go into a bar or have a beer. I was left out and had to do other things. Not that I wanted to get drunk, but that I missed out on socializing with others.
- Currently, seeing my grand kids growing up and not being able to go out and have fun, is really hard for me. All they do is sit at home, playing Playstation or are on their phones. There is nothing for them to say, "I meet my friends for a drink" or something. The non existing public transit, even in a big city like Las Vegas, ads another obstacle to this and getting an Uber would cost more than going out.
- In August, I was at a large festival in Malaga, Spain. There was a separate area with DJ's for the teenagers. It started at 11PM and most all of them had plastic bags with them containing some sort of alcohol. Non of the thousands of teenagers were over 21. Mind you, the public transit for that festival was 24 hours and cost 2 Eur!
What I am saying is NOT that you have to get drunk or become an alcoholic, but being able to have access to alcohol responsibly when you are 16-18 years old, allows you to mingle with other people and opens your horizon a lot. Seeing my grand kids growing up in a bubble, makes me very sad. I think that this bubble is creating the weirdos with a screwed mind that tend to do very, very bad things in their lives by hurting others.
This is an 11/10 response! I am a young 20-something american guy from the US, but grew up in NY and with a much more international upbringing than the average american, i.e. with wine served with dinner in my teens & having spent a fair amount of time in europe.
I've thought and reflected a lot much about the cultural impacts & trickle-down effect of our drinking age are, what the 21-rule might be a symptom of in the broader american society, and can never find the right words. It's hard to form a sound case on my own since it can be so hard to quantify 'more responsible' drinking, but I really appreciate how you contextualized it with the casualty of your grankids' experiences. It is quite sad 😕 and i'm sorry.
I don't know that I have much more to add here, but social education & learning to be responsible on one's own can go so far and be so much more enriching and build so much more independence. Life isn't as simple or deterministic as the question of "what laws lead to more alcoholics." I think the US misses this message of letting kids make mistakes on their own, like learning to drink young, starting with making it illegal to leave your kids unsupervised, and ending with the 21-year old drinking age. There's a whole spectrum of opportunities and personal growth in between. Thanks again for sharing xx
And those stupid [and proud] Americans which ,I hope are few, all attended the state 'education' system where they had to listen to 'educators',most of whom had never left school. * The Amish leave school at 15 which is why the US bureaucracy have always hated them. @alex-fv2mj
President Reagan used Michael Jackson [a Jehovahs Witness] to soften this outrageous authoritarian law and that MADD woman seemed to buckle at the knee in joy [though her daughter's death was a tragedy].To be fair : at least he negotiated with the Russian leader Mikhail Gorbachev in Iceland.
I can definitely support that the risk of drunk driving in Germany is seen as too high and people won’t even touch the wheel until they’re definitely sober (not to mention that technically it is illegal for a under 21 year old or a person that got the license less than 2 years ago to have any alcohol in the blood). Walking / biking home is seen as the safer alternative.
I grew up in a small town in southern Germany that doesn’t have any public transport between 0:30 and 6:00 on weekends, which basically meant that you had three options: stay at McDonalds until 5 and then wait another hour at the train station, take a cab or walk/cycle 20km. Even though this was suboptimal no one ever had the idea to drive home due to the harsh consequences
My school worked with an organisation that offered cheep taxis/suttle service for students to get home after a party to reduce drinking driving.
Drunk circling is better than driving, but still quite dangerous and can also be fined heavily, depending on alcohol level.
Walking home 3 hours at 2 in the morning is an experience I can recommend. It gives you a new sense of how far apart everything is.
Dedicated driver. We always had at least one.
@eljanrimsa5843And as a side effect, you may be quite sober again
@rey6708 They will do it anyways, so offering an option to not endanger themselves or others is still better than the alternative.
You brought up this point in the video, but from start to end, I couldn’t stop thinking “this could all be solved with public transport”. You’re much less likely to drink drive if you don’t need to drive at all.
MAN, I wish MADD had pushed for exceptional public transit as a solution.
It's Murica. There would be something like Mothers Against Drunk Train Riding that would pop up in the Bible Belt 😂
Abstinence never actually 'solved' a problem..
@ManaWeindel85 Nobody mentioned it.
21:10 in my opinion the question "how often are you drunk" is more important than "how often do you drink". Having a beer at home nearly every day is quite common in Germany. But you pose no danger when sitting on your couch while not even being a bit tipsy.
Doesn't that mean the question should be 'how often are you drunk in public?', since being drunk at home does not represent a danger to others?
Also self reporting is very unreliable, for most things, and very much depends on outside attitude to what is being reported.
Alcohol is a neurotoxin, and getting tipsy nearly every day is definitely not healthy.
And if you start feeling that you can't be without your beer and wine in the evening you have created an addiction, and this can cause you a lot of problems.
I don't know a single person personally that would drink alcohol on a daily basis.
@MarcGrafZahl thank you. The "one beer a day" thing is part of the dangerous normalization of alcohol in Germany. Yes, it is not per se dangerous in many cases and as it is done at home usually doesn't impose any danger on the roads, but it helps to downplay the danger of alcohol consumption on a social level.
@patrickhanft As a German (now 63), I don't drink, not from any moral grounds but simply because I dislike how most alcoholic drinks taste, and also the consequences make me feel sick, which I also don't like. Alcohol makes me feel worse, not better. But the only times I ever got significant blood alcohol content was in my 15 months in the air force around 1980, primarily due to social pressure from my comrades - who indulged far more than I ever did. (And I never even tried smoking, though there are stories that as a small kid, I tried eating the stuff - I can't recall any such thing myself. But other people smoking is enough to make my eyes hurt, and then my whole head, for hours. I was very glad when more and more public spaces became non-smoking by law. Horrible stuff.)
But, I also don't drive. I never got a driving license, primarily because I have no 3D sight and am bad at estimating speeds and distances - very much not a good thing when driving - but also, I really never needed to, there were always alternate solutions, primarily public transport.
From my experience as a German: yes, I was drinking when I was 15 or 16, and at some parties too much. But I (and most of my friends) got over that by 18 - which means that none of us drove drunk (at least no cars, my bicycle had some close contacts with hedges in that time...)
Nicht nur dein Drahtesel 😂
They drive at 16 there
@jorgefrade8900You can drive with 17 in Germany aswell. If you drive with a parent/caretaker.
But the much higher standard for driving in Germany limits underage driving significantly.
Being able to kill people on the road should not be held to the same amount as having a nice evening out with friends.
Same in most of Central Europe.
Unfortunately not in the UK and Ireland…
this was something i wondered about as an American. Turns out i was right. Who would have thought.
I feel like the attitude towards alcohol here has done far more harm than the bottle would ever have alone.
This is hands down the best comparison of drinking culture in Europe and the US I've ever seen. So extremely factual, showing it from so many angles. It still boggles my mind how you are able to do so much research every week and then put together these amazing videos. Not only that, but better videos than some I've seen where there has been an entire research team hard at work for a long time. I don't know how you do it, but I'm amazed...
Thank you ❤
@TypeAshtonjust discovered your channel. interesting topics, well researched & presented. Looking forward to seeing more videos
You should be saying why do eastern european countries have 0.0 blood limits for driving and western ones like Uk have more american like 0.08 limits. Theres a reason the more corrupt less well run ones have the 0.00 limit
@TypeAshtonIreland’s is 18 and you become an adult at 18 in Ireland
In sixth year you have graduation, debs and in my case end of year most people had a few beers, ciders or few glasses of wine and spirits.
Reagan is responsible for a lot wrong in your country of birth.
Public transport or lack thereof is important is a determining factor in not drink driving or drink drinking.
Scandinavia apart from Denmark and Finland are the European USA when it comes to alcohol.
I only have a few pints of 5 percent ale a week . I think 18 is good.
@TypeAshtonDrunk driving is a misnomer drink driving is a better term
I've experienced this personally. I was born in The Netherlands, and moved to Canada with my family when I was 13 years old, back in 1981. One of the cultural differences my family and I noticed right away was the difference in drinking culture. My older brother, who is 5 years older than me, had a summer job at a local brewery here in The Netherlands when he was 15 years old, back in the 70's.
We noticed that binge drinking was much more common in the population as a whole, not just in youth. So while youth on both continents indeed indulged in binge drinking likely equally as often, my guess (and it is a guess) is that those numbers change significantly when you look at older groups.
My biggest issue is with one of the final statements made in this video. I figure that there is actually one great way of mitigating binge drinking behaviour, and that is one that will mitigate many of society's problems, especially in North America, and that is education. The more educated a population you have, the fewer societal issues will impinge on the health and happiness of its members. If you didn't know already what a difference education can have on a population, just go to youtube and type "stupid Americans", and you can have a laugh for an entire afternoon 🤣
European countries in general will teach its younger members how to deal with responsibility at a younger age than the US (and Canada to a lesser extent). While here in Europe parents teach their kids how to be responsible in public spaces, helicopter parenting appears to be the norm in North America (except when it comes to the military, there US kids can volunteer to get killed with impunity, but heaven forbid they drink a beer in public).
Education is the key. Teach kids to be responsible from an early age, let them make their mistakes early, when the consequences of making those mistakes are more often manageable, and you will produce more responsible adults.
Funny you should mention education, because where American kids apparently were literally regularly educated in school about the dangers of alcohol (you can of course debate about the quality or efficacy of that "abstinence only" education), I can't recall my Dutch highschool ever mentioning alcohol. When I went to highschool in the 90's (legal drinking age was 16 back then), almost everyone would drink on the weekends, and lots of it. We would drink at home, at parties, bars and clubs and nobody would monitor any of this, including parents. Looking back, I wouldn't have wanted to miss it, because it was such a fun time, but it was also extremely unhealthy.
@MartijnPenningsI am German and we were indeed educated on alcohol, especially alcohol making dangerous situations like traffic aka riding bikes drunk, drunk driving, walking home drunk near roads, in bars or clubs aka being drugged by putting stuff in your drink, never leaving a drunk person on their own alone, and stuff like that. We were told about all the dangers of alcohol at around 15 years old without people saying „you shouldn’t drink“, they just made it clear that there are many dangers and drinking responsibly is important. We knew all of the dangers and could make an informed decision. And many of my friends in fact were able to make informed decisions, even at the age of 16, 17, 18… My friends didn’t drive drunk, we would never leave a drunk person alone by themselves and we would call each others parents to get picked up in case someone went overboard. So education is indeed very important, but not in a way that only deems abstinence as the only right option, but that promotes informed decisions and responsible behavior. And even teenagers have the ability to do this.
Experience is the greatest teacher.
One problem with these indoctrination sessions is that a lot of kids are naturally rebellious. I was. And so were a lot of people I knew. So when some authority figure comes along and tells us not to drink, we'd drink out of spite. For some, "education" (or indoctrination in this case) can have the opposite effect of that which was intended. Especially for critical thinkers.
@RoguePhysicistThat's because they tell you not to drink, they don't teach you how to be responsable when you do drink. Big difference.
I am from europe and went to US 20 years ago (time flies…😢) for several months, and what I remember is being asked my passport to buy beer in supermarket, to enter some bar/club. I also did have some young people came to me to ask if I could buy them beer from the store. I was in california so also people where very scared of publicly carrying a bottle of alcohol (even unopened if I remember well) … and many other small details like that. So it left me an impression , not really about people drinking, but more an impression of some sort of general hysteria about alcool, where in Europe I believe the subject is more or less a non event.
I had similar experiences in the US. Everyone, regardless of age, needs to produce ID to purchase drink. I was told that stores are subject to agents sending people in without ID in order to test the storekeepers ability in always looking for ID. No exceptions are made in this rule.
In a different slant I was amused to see cans of beer on sale in Rome in a shop that also had seating for the consumption of drinks and confectionery bought in the shop.
Such informal coffee shops would never be allowed to sell beer in prudish Ireland. One must get a wine license to sell wine in restaurants and cafes. Only in theaters and museums and art galleries do you find cafes that also have wine on sale. It seems that Ireland makes a distinction between the so-called "civilised" elements in society, who enjoy a good play, historical artifact or painting but the powers that be cannot stand the thought of the lower orders and the horny handed sons of toil getting their hands on alcohol, even beer.
This class distinction even goes as far as in 3rd level education where the Universities have student Bars open at licensing hours but the technical colleges do not.
Our Parliament building also has a bar, subsidised by the taxpaying public, and the subject of an inquiry over some people not paying the bar bills.
The 21th Amendment exists, but the 18th is still quite present in a lot of heads. (The 18th was Prohibition, the 21st repealed it. I'm pretty sure the 18th is the only Amendment that was ever repealed)
@jgdooley2003 I'm pretty sure stores here in Germany are also tested for adherence to the Youth Protection Act.
And I always thought that the Irish Republic was founded on the idea of a classless society but I suppose one should look at the example of that in France-where that cult came from.What surprises me is how authoritarian the country has become ,though to be fair, it presents itself with a smiling feminine face [both sexes] unlike Nazi Germany or the USSR. ' The Government is your friend and wants to help you'... @jgdooley2003
i got over my “alcohol is so cool” phase much earlier than americans. i’m canadian in a province where the drinking age is 18 (or 16 if you’re at home and with parents/guardians), and there’s nowhere near the same party culture up here. especially in university.
As a German, I got my first portion of alcohol from my mom at age 14. She said she'd rather be around when I try it out so she can have some sort of control, rather than me trying it in secret and going over board.
I did drink semi-regularly with my fans a few years later. But now that I am an adult I don't even wanna drink much. Idk if that's to do with me having it tried out wo early, or if it is a personality thing.
it all comes down to "responsible drinking". here a short personal story about one of my kids (i have it done with both). young teens are for sure courious about everything and of course about alcohol too. and me and my wife decided to have their first drinking experience in a save and controlled enviroment. so we allowed her to have a party with her friends at her 14 birthday with alcohol involved. we got the permisson from other parents to serve their kids alcohol at that party. its was a really fun party (for both, the parents and the kids) the kids gone through all stages that alcohol bring to you. and the next morning was the greatest for us as parents ^^.
well, since this day we had no worries about our kids that they would drink behind our knowledge. they had now known what alcohol can do to you. none of them is a alcohlic or is drinking until they pass out at a party. they drink now "responsible".
and i personally think i would be more glad to have a drunk child as one that is dead by shooting in a school or at the street .......
greetings
That’s a pretty huge leap. Why are you thinking about your kids getting shot? What kind of life are you leading?
@NormaJean951 i am just glad that i dont live in the USA and was refering to it. feel free to interpret my last sentence in every way you want to do so.
@NormaJean951Its United States. The country with most deaths from shootings on the whole planet.
@NormaJean951well...the fact that the lead cause of death for children in the US is guns...and everywhere else it isn't.
Might be a reason, that the thought has occured. 😏🤷♂️
I'd say 14 is a bit young for it (I would have waited until the 16th birthday), but the method is known to work wonders.
I think what you said towards the end is key in understanding the attitude difference between Europe and America: If drunk driving by young adults is a problem, Europeans would attack the problem by restricting driving and not drinking. It actually never occurred to me as a European that this was such an important factor for the high legal drinking age in the US. I learned this only from your video.
My father in law was a Portuguese Air Force officer and was stationed in the Azores at some point of his career.
As he uses to tell, it was common for the PoAF commander at the base to offer a party to promote mutual friendship between the Portuguese and American garrisons. Usually, the Portuguese officers arrived earlier, helped themselves with a drink and started chatting while slowly enjoying the drink. At some point, they were joined by the US officers, arriving as a whole group. These then started binge drinking, almost with no interactions with their PoAF counterparts. This went on for a small period, until the American CO could no longer hold himself straight, at which point the remainder US officers carried him away. After this, the party went on, with the Portuguese officers continuing to chat while moderately drinking, until everyone thought it was getting late.
As it seems, this was a recurrent situation, which is just one more example of the different drinking cultures between the US and Europe.
I have seen Americans, and also people from countries where alcohol is completely banned, binge drink and completely lose morals while temporarily living in another country with normal alcohol laws. Some never even recovered...
sure-fire way to get teenagers to do something is to tell them they're not allowed to do it :D
Ooh remember when alcohol was banned in the 20's (in america) and stuff got WILD for a sec? 😭
So wild they had to unban alcohol
@Shrawneysheepexactly. Almost like taking away all legal regulations of something people will use no matter what just makes it worse, who knew?
"lose morals"..whose morals?
@alwest4472 What about fentanyl?
My dad was in the Canadian Army and we were posted to Northern Germany when I was 16, it was an interesting phenomenon yo observe who newly arrived kids reacted to the availability of alcohol, mostly beer. Initially there was excessive drinking but after a short time the drinking became more moderate. I believe it was a function of the knowledge of availability. Most kids came from parts of Canada where the drinking age was 21 so having the ability to go to a gasthof was new and novel. After time passed, being able to go for a couple of beer was “normal” so excessive drinking was less commonplace. A fee three years in Germany, coming back to Canada and bo longer able to enjoy a beverage legally was a strain to say the least.
As a Canadian, I can't think of any place where the legal drinking age is 21. Was this a super long time ago?
Yes we went to Germany in January 1967. Back then the drinking laws in Vanada were archaic.
@SpiritoftheDragonfly It was lowered in early 1970s. It is 19 in all provinces except Quebec, Manitoba and Alberta where it is 18.
The age was 18 when Pierre lowered the age of majority to 18 from 21 to get the young voters. But in provinces with high school with 12 grades it had intoxicated 18 year olds coming back to school after lunch. They raised the legal age to 19 to keep it out of high schools.
@barryhaley7430 They never raised the drinking age from 18 to 19 in Quebec, Alberta, Manitoba.
in the Czech Republic we drink a lot. But we also have 0% tolerance, so nobody really gets into o car even after he drank 1 beer. Because you would immediately loose your license for 2 years and pay huge fine as well. And i think this is a good solution.. I feel safe on our roads.
We are also very good drunken drivers, the amount of people regularly or occasionally breaking the 0% is really high, but I do think that the laws are good at preventing "the majority". The drunks that drive even now can be split into 2 cattegories, those who would drive smashed at any situation, regardless of the laws and those who would be legal with just a "just one beer" policy.
In Germany we have 0,0 the first 2 years after that the limit is 0,3
Not having licence doesnt stop you from driving. Especially when you are drunk
Yeah my, dad rode for like 2km drunk from a concert of his band, got pulled over. Lost his drivers license and for a year he had to cycle to work. He also had to attend multiple psychological evaluations to get his license back.
Wow... I'd love to see your Czech Republic because it sure as hell ain't the one I live in.
been sleeping in the snow 2 times, with love from finland.
In USA when you turn 18 you can join the army to kill or get killed, but you can’t buy a beer. This is ridiculous
Conclusion: a robust public transit system prevents car accidents and lowers mortality rate.
Drinking aside, this held pretty well
I live in Scotland, which is a country with a high amount of alcohol abuse. At least in my generation, so many people started heavily drinking when they were under 18. Because of this, whenever I have my teenage brother around for dinner, since the age of 14 or so, I make sure to responsibly introduce him to alcohol. Letting him have a low alcohol content drink for special occasions, and offering him a sip whenever I have a new kind of alcohol he hasn't encountered before. I've been open with him from day one that the purpose of this is to avoid making alcohol this exciting unknown thing, and hopefully trying to combat the binge drinking "seshes" that so many newly minted 18 year olds fall into.
Austria: "you guys have a drinking age"
In the UK it is legal to drink alcohol from the age of 5, you can drink alcohol (beer, cider or wine) in a pub from 16 but only if consumed with a meal (& someone over 18 must purchase it). At 18 you can buy alcohol. However, there is no age limit to purchase yeast, plastic bucket, malt extract and a hydrometer - allowing you to brew your own beer (as I did from age ~13, was a tradition to make scrumpy from fallen apples in my family, my beer was pretty tame by comparison).
In Sweden there is no age limit at all on drinking, but there is an age limit (I think) of 18 in bars and an age limit of 20 to buy in an alcohol store.
@francisdec1615 yep, the same in Norway and Denmark (just that in Denmark the purchasing age is 16).
This is a common misconception. The legal age to have a drink with a meal is 5, a pub or restaurant doesn't have a different legal age, they tend to impose different policy ages.
I think the biggest difference in learning responsible drinking is actually not the age limit, it is the attitude of adults towards drinking alcohol around children.
I remember going to family meetups and all the adults except the designated drivers having some wine and beer. I remember my parents coming home quite drunk with a taxi, and my dad having to get the car the next day by foot. (I thought it was stolen.) When we are teens and going out alone, our parents tell us to not get into a car with a drunk person and to call them to pick us up, or they give us taxi money. They also tell us where the "Night Taxi" (a rideshare service after the buses stop) are and to call them. It is not some hidden thing you have to do in secret by getting an older person to buy you alcohol. We even stopped a reckless friend here and a drunk stranger trying to get into a car there and took the car keys off them and called them a taxi. If a policeperson sees a very drunk teenager (or adult), and deems them unfit to go home, they either bring you home or, if you live alone, put you in a holding cell and bring you water and food.
Having alcohol is very normalized, for better or worse, and so is dealing with the consequences.
I do think it's also the age limit. People start partying and wanting to do adult things like drinking by age 16, so I think it makes sense to allow a little bit of it to teach them to do so responsibly. I think a legal drinking age that is unrealistically high, like 21 conflicts with responsible learning, because it doesn't take away the teenagers' desire to try this thing that adults seem to enjoy. They'll do it anyway but now are forced to do so secretly in places where there are no adults or older youths around to provide some oversight and intervention if needed, plus if a minor does have a problem with drinking, they can't seek out help without incriminating themselves if underage drinking is handled as a punishable offense. Also I believe having a lower drinking age for weaker alcoholic beverages than for strong alcohol, like Germany does (15 for beer, wine and similar stuff below 15% and 18 for anything with 15% or more) is a good way to teach children that alcohol percentage matters and not to overestimate how many shots they can take, because it takes a while for the alcohol to develop it's the full effect. Whereas banning everything outright may suggest that it's all the same.
I'm 58 and French. I really saw a decline in drinking in France during my life time. When I started to work in the 80s, must of my older colleagues had either a beer or a glass of wine with their meal at lunch time. Today, not so much. If you go to a restaurant at lunch time, you'll see that most people do not drink anymore around, while when I was in my twenties, most tables would have a bottle of wine. I'm not sure whether it is a conscious choice or not, but in my case I can't remember the last time I took some alcool in a restaurant at lunch time during a working day.
Of course this is my own experience and it might not reflect what other people think, but I really saw a deep transformation of the French society, in the last 20 years. I should also note that there is a strange correlation with smoking that is not longer as prevalent in French society as it was before, as if drinking and smoking had become private habits that you don't show up in public anymore.
I have observed the same in Germany at the same time.
This is definitely true in the UK too. In the 80's work lunches regularly involved alcohol. Now it's very rare to see.
Same in Austria. We meet from a club a bit outside so anyone drives by car. Only a few people drink alcohol and then mostly only one beer. Or there are the couples where he asks his partner if she drives today and then orders a second beer or otherwise stays with juice.
@reinhard8053 This is quite interesting. It seems to match the statistics she showed up in which European countries seem to evolve in the same direction in terms of drinking. I wonder if there is a social pressure that people feel unconsciously. Something that would tell other people that you don't live a healthy life, that you might not be a good employee. I really have no idea.
@lesfreresdelaquote1176 The biggest pressure is your driving licence !
The other might be that alcohol is drunk because of taste not only to get drunk (at least from a certain age on).
So you can carry a handgun at 18y but not drink until 21y .. what a world we live in
Since drunk driving is used as the explanation for the higher drinking age, I would like to see some data on the average age of drunk drivers. In Belgium most people that get caught drunk driving are the older generation (above 60). I can see that in my own family. On family gatherings, it's always the older men that get behind the wheel after 10+ beers, while people of my age (44) and younger usually make sure they have a designated driver before the party starts.
I’m from Mexico but was raised in the US. In Mexico, the drinking culture is similar to Europe in the sense that it’s not taboo for teenagers to have access to alcohol.
When I was in high school and would go to a party in Mexico, people didn’t really think twice when alcohol was present. It just wasn’t a big deal and was somewhat expected. Sure, you’d always have a couple of people who overdid it, but all in all I found people generally had a few drinks and knew their limits despite being young.
In the US on the other hand, it was completely different. When I was in high school and would end up at a party that had alcohol, people would react in one of two ways: completely freak out and leave, or, get overly excited and black out. This attitude remained prevalent into university. I went to university in the US and it was shocking how many ambulances were called to the freshmen dorms the first month of school. People simply didn’t know their limits and had their first experiences with alcohol in an unsupervised setting.
After moving to Europe I definitely drink more than I did in the USA. I think you cannot understate the effect that good transit has on the limit of drunk driving rates. I also think that the under drinking age in Austria and German allow kids to experiment when they are still at home and "get it out of their system" before they head to university. The amount of binge drinking at Uni here is much less than in the USA. Also a staged approach where beer/wine is available first is good because with low ABV beers it is hard to really endanger yourself, there is just too much volume of liquid.
My dad told me once upon a time "in an ideal world, the drinking age and driving age are flipped". Sucks that US suburbia is so car dependent that any motion lower the drinking age or raise the driving age won't get anywhere.
I was trying alcohol with my parents from about 11 or 12. My mum taught me how to drink responsibly. I’ve never been hungover, and never binge drunk. Teach your kids and you’ll avoid a lot of problems.
@@CatVision-jx6he I’m not German….. and it’s not like I was getting drunk, I was just learning what alcohol was and about how to treat alcohol. Thats why I said I was trying alcohol, not drinking. I come from a country where binge drinking is a serious problem and yet I’ve never participated. I thank my parents and their education for that.
It's funny, as someone that went to high school in the 90's, in Wisconsin, I had teachers that used to talk about going out for a beer during their lunch time while they were in high school. And we got to just sit there and go "WTF!!"
not surprising if it's Wisconsin 😂
Common in the UK. At my school formal (prom) we do shots with our teachers, it's tradition. Even if we're not 18, no one cares. You even get tickets for free drinks. My soft spoken female English teacher bought me this gross spicy shot and slapped me on the back and said 'get that down ya, ya cunt' 😂 not even joking btw. Had a beer with the dean of discipline at my school because he was in the same pub my dad brought me to when I was 16 😅
In Romania, many of us are served alcohol by our families since very, very young ages. Many fellow Romanian will recall being in a family gathering and hearing some random uncle go "just a sip of wine, it's homemade, it's good". The first drink I ever had was actually a 40-50% strong homemade moonshine called "ţuică", similar to serbian rakia or hungarian palinka. Sounds extreme at first, but actually is a lifesaver for us. We spent most of our highschool days drinking in bars (yeah some would serve you alcohol between 14 and 18 despite the legal age being 18). By the time we reach the age to drive (also 18), we are very aware of our drinking limits and drinking itself doesn't seem so exciting and cool anymore. Also, you can get public transportation pretty much everywhere (though the buses can be crappy at times), so you don't have the necessity to use a car.
yes! me and my brother always had a small coffee cup of alcohol at family gatherings/holidays. wine, beer, sparkling wine, palinca. i remember it started from first grade.
Not all of us did that as teenagers, drinking in the bars, and certainly NOT in the Communist and post-Communism years, that is mostly a post-2005 trend. Like now, in the early 20's, there is a trend among teenagers to consume drugs.
Yo, that part about the uncle is SO relatable. I’m Hungarian and 19, and every single time my uncle keeps asking me “But WHY don’t you want any alcohol??” and like, shut up. I’m allowed to not like it man.
@boglarkarebay 💯😂😂
That's why I see Romanians as "southern Europeans" rather than Eastern Europeans.
Perhaps the border lies on the Dniestr 😂
Another important factor for DUI deaths in the US is the size of the cars: pedestrians are always more likely to die when hit by cars in the US compared to in Europe, regardless of how drunk the driver might have been.
I can never find again, but many years ago I read a report about binge drinking in UK and US universities. They were confused why the US numbers were much higher than the UK. Then they compared the definition, the US was five drinks in a session and the UK was 3 days of heavy drinking
I'm from the UK, and the English are famously annoying drunks. A problem across Europe.
Accedote, I was on a work trip in the US with a group. We were invited out for a drink after work. We were utterly surprised when almost everyone left after A drink. That's almost unheard of here
@scollybWe are famously annoying drunks at home, too. I like a drink with the best of them, but if I have too many, not often nowadays, I tend to just smile at people. I take my dog out for a walk last thing at weekend and have a special route that avoids pubs.
@scollyb I don't know how they are at home, but when they come to Spain they can't control themselves ^_^'
@scollyb I live in Amsterdam and reading your comment I was wondering if this ad campaign is still running in the UK?
ruclips.net/video/X-q7V_0OkcI/video.htmlsi=LXe8pMQIKx5fb8qJ
@jal051 they are similar at home but generally more spread out, only Friday and Saturday are bad and only in a few locations. So it's worse in tourist areas
A friend of mine ended up in a relationship with a fella from Rhode Island while at uni. Eventually she ended up going over to the USA for a friends and family visit. One night she was thrilled when someone finally said "Do you want to go for a beer?" and she couldn't get her coat on quickly enough. They got to some dive in the middle of nowhere and she settled in for a decent session. However, after a beer, just the one, the other folk got ready to leave. She was mortified. "A beer" apparently meant just one. Needless to say that on her return to Humberside she terminated the relationship.
The thing is if you treat adults like children the you will get what you deserve in the terms of grim statistics.
Asking a Brit to have "one" is a self defeating move. It's a three drink minimum and it may turn into a long weekend if it's going well....
So the relation was based on the amount of alcohol consumed. I think that fella dodged a bullet there.
Thank goodness this guy dodged an obvious lush.
@brettbuck7362 hahaha Americans are so lightweight. You think wanting more than 1 drink makes you a lush? Pathetic.
@brettbuck7362 nah man, its as if you go over to your girlfriend "for sex", but when you finally get to it, you find out she's 20 and meant kissing a bit. This is so immature, i'd back up instantly. There are a few things like that.
Morality is one thing like that (Kohlbergs stair model i.e), if a person expresses a moral development level that is not matching up to where they should be, i am out before i can even explain why i think all of this is childish.
I'm Polish, when I was five years old my father use to give me a little bi of beer to, how he said, get rid of parasites. USA alcohol law is insane.
Im from Iceland. You're analysis is correct. Having a buzz going "at home" doesn't only save money but allows for intimate activity with friends before a more general socializing with strangers.
When I started college in Scotland in 1979, it was easy to tell which students had been forbidden alcohol by their parents as they were the ones developing a drink problem!
Those of us who had tried it before found it easier to keep the levels down. The other think that helped was that, in those days, we were mostly on student grants. This made us have less money to spend. In fact, almost the only time I spent near a bar was at the OTC mess (it was cheaper there).
A major difference in Europe is the attitude to being drunk. When I left the UK about 10yrs ago it was common to see crowds of drunk people going Bar to bar in cities and being very loud and drunk. Going out drinking was seen as adult and even something to boast about. In France by contrast it seemed that such behaviour would be seen as a sign of immaturity and being drunk in public was very found upon. This did seem to have a significant impact on drinking behavior especially among young adults.
A very long time ago, 1969, we went on a school trip to a youth hostel in southern Germany for a week (maybe 2 weeks), every night the teachers in charge allowed us to go down to the local bar and drink beer. It wasn't a problem then.
But even back in the UK, when we went on school field trips, we were allowed to go to local pubs. It wasn't an issue then.
We went to Munich in 10th grade... and of course, a day trip to the Andechs beer garden (I think it was hiking?` I remember the Deutsches Museum MUCH better...) was included.
In the 80ies we were on school trips in Austria and Italy (age ~14-17) and it was a planned activity to visit a vine cellar and be allowed to drink alcohol. There were some who drank too much and one teacher was only driving these back to our hostel. There was only a problem for some when they bought their own alcohol and drank far too much one evening at the hostel. But even that didn't have much consequences for anyone.
I remember in the 1970s being able to buy lime and lager in vending machines in the UK.
@annenelson5656 I remember that at a school trip to Belgium (I am Dutch) where we were there was also a lager vending machine outside. That must have been in 2007 or 08. in The Netherlands that was not a thing anymore. Way to easy to get drunk.
If you’re old enough to get drafted, you’re old enough to get drunk
My wife and I made the decision to leave our life of beaches and palm trees here in south Florida for rolling hills and vineyards of south western Germany. Your posts have helped set expectations about culture and reaffirmed our choice for ourselves and our children. I am looking forward to the new adventure that awaits us in November. Thank you
Wow, that's a big leap. Welcome and all the best wishes from Denmark.
@yottaforce Welcome to our country from Germany!
if you need someone to show you around, im fairly familiar with that region.
willkommen in deutschland! :)
Welcome I hope you and your family enjoy your time in Germany :)
WEINLAND BW/VINOLANDIA BadenWuttenbergiana/ VIVAN las WEINCOSTs
The last part about how often do you drink is key. A lot of Americans don't drink ever. Probably around a 1/3rd or so. As somebody who drinks with supper every night, I'm in the top tier of drinkers in the United States. If the alcohol industry had to rely on people like me, it would still collapse economically. That's kind of scary.
13:12 Abstinence is not a word the world associates with Americans. At all.
In England we finish high school at 16, on the very last day of school all the kids from the other schools in the area came to meet in my town at the beach and everyone was drinking. When the police got there they didn’t take drinks off of anyone and told us to go into a field across the road to stay out of the public eye 😂
Thank you so much for pointing out the complexities of the issue! All those legal restrictions are fairly blunt tools, aren't they? Nobody turns into a responsible person all of a sudden simply because the calendar says it's their birthday. No particular blood alcohol content indicates whether a specific person is able to drive a car safely. In an ideal world, young people would be allowed to experiment with intoxicating substances at minimum risk. There would be ways to get home safely without having to work heavy machinery. There would be societal support for people with early indications of addiction problems. Yeah, I'm dreaming...
The UK is kind of relaxed outside of legally mandated establishments. I was having wine with dinner and shandy (beer mixed with lemonade) very young. My parents made sure to monitor our consumption and when I was old enough to go out to a pub on my own at 18 it wasn't that big a deal. I've been drunk a few times, but not often. I can also remember being 15 or so and having a friend round and drinking a few cans of beer as we played D&D. My parents weren't home and didn't mind as long as we didn't drink too much. Parental guidance rather than judgement goes a long way towards responsibility. America is kind of weird at times, calling themselves the land of the free but restricting stuff most other countries don't have a problem with.
Liberty. Not freedom. There is a difference.
Plus "Liberty" and "freedom" are words that can be interpreted very differently in different cultures.
@italia689 I find that for the most part I have both.
Hello Ashton! Thank you for this video.
Comparing Germany there are some factors that have also an influence about young people drink and not driving:
- The cost of a driving license and the amount of effort in training to get one. A German driving license costs about € 2.000,- and it takes 12+ training lessons in a driving school plus 12+ practical driving trainings. It can take half a year to get a license on a busy schedule. That is a major effect.
- Teens can start driving already at an age of 17 under adult (parental) guidance. So the first year the teens get their expierence on driving a car under control of a parent.
- the amount of effort to get a license back can be complicated. If it is not the first act of being caught driving drunk, a license can be kept until the driver is certified in a hard psychological test. The rate of failure is incredible high, so absolutely noone (except some silly lunatics) risks to loose their license forever because nowadays a car driving license is an absolutely dependency for geting a job.
- getting a license includes a trial period of two years. In this two years any minor misuse of driving (too fast, red lights, even wrong parking and of course driving drunk) can delete the license of the youngster. Ig you loose it, you start at zero which means you pay the high rate for training another. And after passing the tests, the trial period starts again.
by the way: getting caught drunk on a bicycle can take your license away as well.
Even in the Netherlands where it's technically 18+ people start drinking at 14
You brought up a very important difference between US and Europe. Available public transportation, and driving. I have met a lot of people in various parts of Europe, and they don't drive, or don't have a vehicle. I am old enough that I remember a 19 y/o drinking age when I graduated high school. Strangely enough, not as many 19 y/o drunk drivers as compared to adults. I feel it is more a responsibility issue and not as much an age issue. We, as a culture, tent to focus on what we can't have and obsess in trying to achieve it. I have seen other, more relaxed cultures where things are not as desired if they are not "taboo" and pose less of a problem. And you also mentioned penalties. We can be a little too forgiving for breaking the laws when it comes to DUI. Losing a license is not as big a deal as losing a vehicle. You can drive without a license, even though it is illegal. It is much harder to drive without a car.
I'm 52 y/o guy from Madrid, a city with 3.5 million people, in the center of the 4th biggest metropolitan area in Europe. 12 subway lines, 300 subway stations, 225 bus lines, 2200 buses running every day, 25 nocturnal (00:30 - 06:00) bus lines with about 100 buses available every 20 minutes... never *EVER* felt the urge to get a driving license. On the other side, our city has only 30 km (18 miles) of diameter, so there's a whole country out there where you need to drive to get around. There's almost no public transportation outside of the bigger 10 cities, but there have been big campaigns about alcohol consumption at TV in the last 40 years. Accidents have decreased, 18000 km of highways have been built, roads are safer, but we still have another 250.000 kilometres of local roads and too many stupid youngsters.
Anti-drunk driving ads in NYC frequently feature the subway because it is the most extensive public transportation system in the United States. When I moved to the Bay Area, it was just a rather kill joy message that buzzed driving is drunk driving. Nothing about taking BART into SF and home, etc.
I mean the issue is that if you take away the car you essentially take away a person’s ability to sustain themselves monetarily. You are essentially making people destitute if you enforce such an aggressive policy which realistically won’t move the needle a ton with the DUI’s bc it’s not usually a rational decision
im a 36 year old german and have NEVER owned a car in my life and i dont plan to ever do..
@badart3204 Why do you think you need to take away cars to have public transportation? People in Europe/East Asia are not taken away their car. Some of them choose to not own a car because they don't need it. Most Americans HAVE NO CHOICE BUT to own a car. Isn't that ridiculus? I would much rather only drvie my car for fun, not to have myself stuck in traffic every day.
I taught my sons (I have only a daughter-in-law) to drink beer responsibly when they were about 16. So far the results have been good. The older one drinks only a couple times per year, he's busy with a family. The younger son does drink a little more often, usually only with his friends. He spends his money to his computer gaming system and other nice little things rather than alcohol.
I definitely agree think that the biggest issue in the us with drunk driving is that you HAVE to drive to get around. if you are at your house or a friend's house and want to or need to go somewhere else, you have to drive (in the past few years, delivery services and taxi apps like uber have been a very good alternative); while in most of Europe, you can walk or take public transit.
being able to drink before being able to drive is definitely another huge thing. it doesn't really matter if you are getting hammered in your house when you can't drive and therefore can't drunk drive
I'm from Manitoba and Alberta in Canada. Our legal drinking age is 18. I can't even imagine the criminal record I would have racked up between 18 and 21 for "underage drinking" if I lived in the states. The very idea and absurdity that you're not allowed to buy or consume alcohol until the ripe old age of 21 still blows my mind.
I think, Germany does it pretty well. There is a difference between "hard liquor" and low level alcohol types (beer and most wines). The limits are 16 years for low, 18 years for higher levels.
If I should guess it has to do with the driving culture too: From 16 on you can have a small motor cycle / "mofa/moped" licence, from 18 on you can drive real cars.
There are discussions around that but people are allowed to vote on "lower" levels (more regional once) from 16 on, country wide elections ("higher once") are for 18 years and up.
You can mary with 18 years and above. You are fully legally responsible with 18, before that there is "youth right" meaning, your parents are more involved in any legal stuff you do.
All the limits are pretty much connected to each other.
Are the teens who get hard liquor? Yes there are, but most just dring beer.
Is it because of punishment? Not really, it is about not being able to easily get harder liquor, because most often the stores are going to be punished for selling not the minors are going to be punished as hard.
If you allow certain kinds of "harmful" substances, it is a good idea to let people learn to cope with it especially if they are allowed to handle firearms or deadly tools like cars.
Being drunk and driving a car for the "first" time? (meaning less experience) => bad idea.
Mid European here. As a former 15yro, yes. We do drink, a lot. But I don't remember a single person (w/wo) driving license that would go back while behind the wheel. We walked back. Or called a cab. Or that one sober friend. Generally speaking.
I've never even tried alcohol. Just never interested me and I had alcoholic parents. That said, I usually shy away from videos on the topic, but your presentation, being a LOT more academic, wins all the prizes!!
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy the videos.
I took a few sips in high school and on a few occassions. I realised that alcohol tastes like shit to me so I started wondering why are people into that 😂
@andreydoronin6995It's an acquired taste - you get more and more out of it the more you try it. It's also mixed in with the positive aspects of social outings and the relaxation of nerves
I think 18 drink, 18 to drive, and 0 tolerance on dui
Even though the US has a lower average alcohol consumption per capita the rates of alcoholism are much higher than in most European countries (13,9% in the US vs 6,9% in Germany).
True. However, it is a well recognised fact in the medical (and mental health) community that when diagnosing alcoholism cultural norms do play a role. So, when this is accounted for, the numbers might be closer together. (Although it is my personal belief that the number for the US would be higher still, I attribute this belief to my personal bias against how the US handles certain things in general... in this case, the attitude towards alcohol consumption and related matters.)
@BogdanMicic Germany has a *much* higher rate of "social drinking." A glass of wine, beer, hard cider, ... for dinner is quite normal.
@artforz That's exactly what I was alluding to. I live in Austria (which is not that different in that regard - in fact, it might be even more common here).
@artforzyou also just tried to tell me that it's safe to eat meat that's been sitting out for days.
@m6a1u57 You realize what "hanging" meat is, right? Oh wait, you are stupid.
Really love all the work you put in and your essay style. My short time living and working overseas I definitely saw a difference in binge drinking, and specifically alcohol abuse, when compared to the US. The culture as a whole seemed more responsible, even though I did a considerable amount of drinking while there. I remember listening to a teenager say during dinner "no more for me, I'm feeling a bit buzzed already" they had already learned their limits from drinking with their families
Coming from a EU country with 0.2‰ limit, it was very easy for us especially at young age to decide if you want to drive or not :) 1 regular beer gets you above the allowed limit (or borderline if you wait long enough) so you don't dive, and plan to have alternative way home if you had ANY. There are no semi-drunk guys trying to decide if they are fit to drive after already drunk 3-4 beers. You make that decision upfront since the first one makes decision for you. It's practical in a way, from perspective of small town person with no local public transport or taxis/uber around: you organise your logistics back home while you order your first beer if you don't have one already e.g. while still being sober. If you had already a few lets be honest, ability to make good decisions goes down pretty quick, so simple math like helps here :)
As a Canadian, I sometimes feel that we fall between the USA and Europe with regards to drinking. Like the USA, we are a car culture as well and with poor public transit so I'm not surprised that we have as many, if not more, DUI and accidents as the USA. We also issue driving licenses at 16 with drinking at 18. Like many have said, young Americans like to drink before 21 and Hollywood shows that all the time. This makes sense. You're an adult. You can vote. You can be in the military. You are finished high school and might be working in some permanent job. Yet you can't drink? I would be tempted to drink long before I turned 21. In Canada you find that temptation in the 17 year old cohort primarily. Less so with 16 year olds as they are often still under parental "control" at that age. They're just entering high school so are just evolving from being elementary school kids. On another note, considering the easy access to firearms in the USA, then it might be a good thing that drinking doesn't kick in until age 21.
One important thing you miss about Europe/Germany is, that we have the idea that parents should teach children how to deal with all things in life and this also includes the use of alcohol. Why shoud kids or young adults get drunk with strangers first and not be tought by their parents how to drink resposibly..
Yup. Pretty common to be allowed to drink as much beer as you want by your parents for your 14th birthday or so.
And you get to clean up the next morning.
That 21 year old drinking age and the aggressive populist campaigns must be that „freedom“ thing Americans like to boast about so much.
Greetings from unfree Europe (where we actually have much more freedom in most areas of living)
The land of the free and the home of the dumb.
But they can freedom drive with 16 (I just imagine a 16 year old on the outskirt of Brescia in a Cosworth) and then that other thin with guns too, they are so responsible
Maybe a more appropriate consideration would be the individualism in the US vs the European sense of communal identity. The US tends to have this delusional idea of “individualism” and “self-made”, neither of which are really true. Europeans, from what I understand stand, have more of a collective sense of identity and thus aren’t as repulsed by social safety nets, etc., as Americans. Could it be at least partially that this sense of responsibility to one’s community at least subconsciously helps dissuade people from putting others at risk by engaging in risky behavior? After all, we do not make decisions in a vacuum, we make them within the framework of our personal worldviews.
@texaszag8748 the main difference is the definition of freedom.
Of course these are all generalizations but there’s some truth to it:
Americans tend to define freedom - as you said - through individualism.
It is correct that you can choose not to pay for health care and that works as long as you are healthy. Europeans on the other hand gladly pay for compulsory health care because it takes away uncertainty. In our case freedom comes through not having to worry about the „what ifs“ in life since our societies agreed on creating systems that make almost everyone pay but also almost everyone being taken care of when in need of such services regardless of being wealthy or poor.
And there are a lot of other examples like that, gun rights for example. Americans define freedom through being allowed to own and sometimes carry guns. Europeans define freedom through generally not having to be afraid of random people walking around with guns, not having to think about shooters entering schools, in Europe we’ve never been taught about those scenarios at school because they simply almost never happened.
I fully agree with your comment, the American individualism comes with a lot of downsides for the general society and reduces the overall freedom while European conformism - if you want to call it like that - creates a common freedom in your everyday life, as in not having to worry about many things a lot of Americans have to worry about.
@tarant315 I mean since in many European countries driving with 17 has been a thing for more than 15 years now it’s not much of a difference anymore.
In Germany you can drive with 17 as long as a parent (or someone who’s registered to drive with you) is on the passenger seat and in case you for example have to drive to work or vocational school there are exceptions that can allow you driving alone with 17 on a predefined route (which you mustn’t leave otherwise you’re not allowed to drive alone).
So I don’t see much of a difference anymore.
The main difference is that a German drivers license requires much more theory lessons and practical lessons and costs more than 3000€ these days
When we were at dinner in Tuscany with several families the teens asked if they could drink wine at dinner. I replied certainly, but one of. Y physician friends would pour. They had a glass of wine with dinner. So did the adults. I told them that’s how one is to drink-as a complement to a dinner. “You didn’t see any of your parents over drinking or getting drunk. That is how adults act.” I hope you can grow up to be such wonderful people as your parents.”
9:29 I find it so funny to always see my house (on the map) when you show a graph
I grew up in Switzerland and from age 16-20 frequently went out with friends in the city. It would probably be considered "binge-drinking" but always felt quite safe: Low crime rate and easy walks/transit home through the night. Most parents were cool with it too, so we could safely have gatherings/parties at our homes. Of course I never had to think about driving a single time and didn't get my drivers licence until I was 21. Licences here also have a strict probationary period of 3 years, discouraging drunk driving.
Kudos on your cross-cultural observations!! I think there is a distinction to be made about family rituals in each culture and how they may shape our understanding about drinking culture. I grew up in two cultures: one French-speaking, the other English-speaking. In the French environment, the European convention of offering younger teens wine or beer at special family dinners and formal occasions is common; this reality is sometimes a bit of a culture shock for an English-speaking teen from the US or another province of Canada. What I find fascinating is the cultural dynamic at play when this happens. It’s not so much which cultural group is the bigger binge-drinker so much as the importance that drinking has on the ritual of eating with friends and family. My observation: English-speaking North Americans, Britons, Australians and New Zealanders may have a greater tendency to drink for the sake of drinking; Europeans (including French-speaking Canadians) grow up learning that drinking helps to balance, complement or even enhance the dining experience. Think how the French have an alcoholic pairing for almost any dish. In that way, perhaps, young Europeans learn early on how to manage their alcoholic consumption because it’s so closely tied to family rituals, social acceptance and food culture, whereas in more English-speaking environments, drinking is both historically and culturally associated with a negative frame of reference, such as temperance laws, alcoholism, addiction and that drunk relative that has once again fallen off the wagon.
You do the most research and work for your videos, you definitely deserve the most credit for it. Thank you.
Thank you!
Feel like us in the United Kingdom are drastically upping that binge drinking statistic....