Anglicans only affirm two sacraments - baptism and Eucharist, but ordination is a big deal. It involves the laying on of hands by the bishop, and the making of vows by the ordinand, and the impartation of God’s Grace to carry out the calling.
I’d really love to see you bring Stephen Boyce on to talk about this topic. He focuses on early church teaching and I think he has a sort of “reasoned complimentarian” approach.
It’s channels like this why I’m reminded you can concoct any conclusion, bring on anyone with any background, and push a point, regardless of how contrived, inaccurate, or illogical it is. Creator needs to be strongly rebuked for his stupidity, arrogance, and pride, along with the “deacon”
Thanks for sharing. Do you mind sharing why you came to that conclusion? It doesn’t do any of us any good for you to say this without explaining why we should believe you.
Thanks for this. I'm so surprised how much pushback in a negative sense especially from "modern" men regarding women as pastors. We have women with theology degrees teaching in universities yet they cannot be priests because of a few passages that may have had something that was going on in Ephesus.
@@m.g.7223 haha yep, thanks for sharing, looking from the outside in like you are, it is pretty wild; but when you’re in that mindset, it’s 100% true. It’s really a lesson about humility!
Basically the deacon is a "servant" within the context of the local church. There are two OFFICES...Pastor (Bishop, Overseer) and Deacon (Elder, Presbyter). I understand that sometimes the Greek seems to be confusing, but the qualifications for those OFFICES are crystal clear; only men may hold those. Function is a little different. I am a Baptist. We have no female deacons (deaconesses) in our church. That does not mean that our wonderful ladies do not render important services. When I had COVID, the Pastor's wife shopped for me and brought me groceries. She visits the sick, assists and teaches our ladies and children, prepares fellowship functions, and so on. But she does not hold the OFFICE of Deacon(ness). She is a blessing to us all as a servant in the church. PHIL. 1:1 is best understood as Bishop (office of) and Deacons (functionaries as servants to the Bishop). This is not rocket science. This is why in ROM. 16:1 Phoebe is best rendered "servant". Lord bless you....
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou you are welcome. I also should add this.... Within the church, men preach and teach the flock. However, that does not mean that a mature Christian (meaning well taught) woman can not assist a new male convert privately; for example if she has been a believer for years and her husband is newly converted. As well, women as well as men have an unction from the Lord to share the gospel message with others in their daily lives. I have a personal experience I can share with you. I wrote a one hundred page study on the resurrection narratives, reconciling the differences and "discrepancies" in the four gospel accounts. While working on this project I enlisted the help of a lady friend who was fluent in New Testament Greek. In other words, she actually instructed me regarding some key words and phrases as translated in the KJV. She was a tremendous blessing! Again, God bless...
The evidence presented is interesting, but not authoritative. It's an interesting discussion describing what happened, not a prescription for today. There is better evidence for leading women within the New Testament, along with Paul's qualifications for elders. We have to take all of it to heart and reconcile what it all means - not listening to only one side or the other, but genuinely seek to understand it.
I just read the Amazon reviews. No women priests, just female deaconess etc. Again, the Apostolic Ministry is for certain males, just as St. Paul says. Not even all males qualify.
We literally listed women that were ordained priests in the video…Also, there are no verses in any Biblical text where Paul says the Apostolic ministry is for only males.
@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou husband of one wife....translate the Koine. All the Patriarchs were male. The Prophets were male. Christ is a male. The Holy Apostles are male. St. Paul lists the requirements for the Office of the Ministry in two epistles. Only certain males qualify.
She needs to show positive evidence: - an Early Church Father who wrote of woman priests (heretical sects aside) - scripture where scripture speaks of women priests. - an early synod or council where the issue was debated and settled (as the Church did with other disputed matters) Silence to all of the above. Worse for Carolyn is she argues against the magisterium of the Church to interpret scripture. She is no authority whatsoever to say the Church is erroring in its doctrine. She thus makes Jesus out to be undependable and liar. The Church - the pillar of Truth, the Bulwark of Truth, where the manifold wisdom of God is made known, and to which Christ PROMISED to send the Holy Spirt to lead it to ALL Truth, has not _universally_ errored. Consistent too, opposing her thought, the Orthodox reject such non-sense. Heretics need to be called out whomever they be. This all stems from the source of all sin, pride.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou Because without any of the above, she's wildly speculating and making Jesus out to be a liar. Strong claims need strong proof. She doesn't have any. _“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”_ (Carl Sagan)
@@TruthHasSpoken what is she speculating about? It seems you have a very specific interpretation of a passage in the Bible on what Jesus said that not everyone holds. If she is right about what she has said, isn’t it possible that you might just need to update your interpretation?
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou "If she is right about what she has said" To my first point: She needs to show positive evidence: - an Early Church Father who wrote of woman priests (heretical sects aside) - scripture where scripture speaks of women priests. - an early synod or council where the issue was debated and settled (as the Church did with other disputed matters) All she has is her 21st century conjecture, trying to fit her theology back in time. "you have a very specific interpretation of a passage in the Bible" Not just one passage. Scripture is explicit: Christ is the head of his Church (Col 1: 18) Christ''s Church is the pillar of truth (1 Tim 3: 15) Christ's Church is the bulwark of truth. (1 Tim 3: 15) Christ's Church is where the manifold wisdom of God is made known. (Eph 3: 10) *Christ PROMISED to lead it to ALL Truth.* (Jn 16: 13) Christ PROMISED that he would NEVER leave it. (Mt 28: 20) Christ PROMISED that the gates of hell would not prevail (it will not teach doctrinal error) ; (Mt 16: 18) In the world of Carolyn, Christ utterly failed to lead his Church to ALL TRUTH. Either he was a horrible teacher or the disciples horrible listeners. There is no teaching tradition anywhere in the world in the first 1000+ years of women priests. To name a few, not in: - the Holy Land - North Africa - Turkey - Italy - Spain - France - England - India (just how could the Church errored so universally if the disciples taught such and the Church never met in a council or synod to debate the issue??) All of which is 100% consistent with scripture. For all the reasons above, her conjecture, a heresy, can be rejected. We should pray for her.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou The following quotations from the Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that *these women were not ordained.* The Fathers rejected women’s ordination, not because it was incompatible with Christian culture, but because it was incompatible with Christian faith. Thus, together with biblical declarations, the teaching of the Fathers on this issue formed the tradition of the Church that taught that priestly ordination was reserved to men. *This teaching has not changed.* Firmilian “[T]here suddenly arose among us a certain woman, who in a state of ecstasy announced herself as a prophetess and acted as if filled with the Holy Ghost. . . . Through the deceptions and illusions of the demon, this woman had previously set about deluding believers in a variety of ways. Among the means by which she had deluded many was daring to pretend that, through proper invocation, she consecrated bread and performed the Eucharist” (collected in Cyprian’s Letters 74:10 [A.D. 253]). Hippolytus “When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all” (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215]). Tertullian “It is not permitted for a woman to speak in the church [1 Cor 14:34-35], but neither [is it permitted her] . . . to offer, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say sacerdotal office” (The Veiling of Virgins 9 [A.D. 206]). Irenaeus Irenaeus describes the bizarre rites of the Gnostic Marcus in great detail, including a section in which women act as priests“ (Against Heresies 1:13:2 [A.D. 189]). To say that women were ordained in the early church is not only factually incorrect but it's heretical. - No adult converts were baptized in the nude. - Scrolls found at the Dead Sea were Gnostic. - The Bible is filled with female prophets (prophetess). In the New Testament Anna is described as a prophetess in Luke 2: 36-38. To say that women in the Catholic Church were oppressed is a fallacy. -The role of women in the Church could not be ordained as Priest(ess) because the Priests are given the name Father, which means teacher. The same as women were not given the title of Rabbi as Rabbi also means teacher (Father). Orthodox Jewish institutions do not accept women as the role of Rabbi, but like the Catholic Church women do have other leadership roles. - Galatians 3: 28 Paul speaks for our justification through faith, not our roles in the Church. -It's a fallacy to say women don't have leadership roles in the Catholic Church. She's parroting an argument that doesn't exist, but only popular among feminists. Only men can hold hierarchical positions, while only women can hold the apostolic titles of Sister (Reverend) and Nun (Mother, Mother Superior, Reverend Mother). However, all other positions can be held by both men and women. "Sister Raffaella Petrini, the first-ever female secretary general of the Vatican City State, responsible for the territory’s health care system, police force and main source of revenue, the Vatican Museums." In fact, in 2023 more women hold top decision-making positions than at any time in the Vatican's history.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou The following quotations from the Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that *these women were not ordained.* The Fathers rejected women’s ordination, not because it was incompatible with Christian culture, but because it was incompatible with Christian faith. Thus, together with biblical declarations, the teaching of the Fathers on this issue formed the tradition of the Church that taught that priestly ordination was reserved to men. *This teaching has not changed.* Firmilian “[T]here suddenly arose among us a certain woman, who in a state of ecstasy announced herself as a prophetess and acted as if filled with the Holy Ghost. . . . Through the deceptions and illusions of the demon, this woman had previously set about deluding believers in a variety of ways. Among the means by which she had deluded many was daring to pretend that, through proper invocation, she consecrated bread and performed the Eucharist” (collected in Cyprian’s Letters 74:10 [A.D. 253]). Hippolytus “When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all” (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215]). Tertullian “It is not permitted for a woman to speak in the church [1 Cor 14:34-35], but neither [is it permitted her] . . . to offer, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say sacerdotal office” (The Veiling of Virgins 9 [A.D. 206]). Irenaeus Irenaeus describes the bizarre rites of the Gnostic Marcus in great detail, including a section in which women act as priests“ (Against Heresies 1:13:2 [A.D. 189]). To say that women were ordained in the early church is not only factually incorrect but it's heretical. - No adult converts were baptized in the nude. - Scrolls found at the Dead Sea were Gnostic. - The Bible is filled with female prophets (prophetess). In the New Testament Anna is described as a prophetess in Luke 2: 36-38. To say that women in the Catholic Church were oppressed is a fallacy. -The role of women in the Church could not be ordained as Priest(ess) because the Priests are given the name Father, which means teacher. The same as women were not given the title of Rabbi as Rabbi also means teacher (Father). Orthodox Jewish institutions do not accept women as the role of Rabbi, but like the Catholic Church women do have other leadership roles. - Galatians 3: 28 Paul speaks for our justification through faith, not our roles in the Church. -It's a fallacy to say women don't have leadership roles in the Catholic Church. She's parroting an argument that doesn't exist, but only popular among feminists. Only men can hold hierarchical positions, while only women can hold the apostolic titles of Sister (Reverend) and Nun (Mother, Mother Superior, Reverend Mother). However, all other positions can be held by both men and women. "Sister Raffaella Petrini, the first-ever female secretary general of the Vatican City State, responsible for the territory’s health care system, police force and main source of revenue, the Vatican Museums." In fact, in 2023 more women hold top decision-making positions than at any time in the Vatican's history.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou The following quotations from the Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that *these women were not ordained.* The Fathers rejected women’s ordination, not because it was incompatible with Christian culture, but because it was incompatible with Christian faith. Thus, together with biblical declarations, the teaching of the Fathers on this issue formed the tradition of the Church that taught that priestly ordination was reserved to men. *This teaching has not changed.* Firmilian “[T]here suddenly arose among us a certain woman, who in a state of ecstasy announced herself as a prophetess and acted as if filled with the Holy Ghost. . . . Through the deceptions and illusions of the demon, this woman had previously set about deluding believers in a variety of ways. Among the means by which she had deluded many was daring to pretend that, through proper invocation, she consecrated bread and performed the Eucharist” (collected in Cyprian’s Letters 74:10 [A.D. 253]). Hippolytus “When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all” (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215]). Tertullian “It is not permitted for a woman to speak in the church [1 Cor 14:34-35], but neither [is it permitted her] . . . to offer, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say sacerdotal office” (The Veiling of Virgins 9 [A.D. 206]). Irenaeus Irenaeus describes the bizarre rites of the Gnostic Marcus in great detail, including a section in which women act as priests“ (Against Heresies 1:13:2 [A.D. 189]).
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Anglicans only affirm two sacraments - baptism and Eucharist, but ordination is a big deal. It involves the laying on of hands by the bishop, and the making of vows by the ordinand, and the impartation of God’s Grace to carry out the calling.
Interesting! Thanks
While Anglican doctrine affirms only 2 sacraments. Many within the Anglo-Catholic tradition hold to 7
If we're talking 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th century... we're not talking about the early church
95% of discussion was about the 5th century or earlier
I’d really love to see you bring Stephen Boyce on to talk about this topic. He focuses on early church teaching and I think he has a sort of “reasoned complimentarian” approach.
It’s channels like this why I’m reminded you can concoct any conclusion, bring on anyone with any background, and push a point, regardless of how contrived, inaccurate, or illogical it is.
Creator needs to be strongly rebuked for his stupidity, arrogance, and pride, along with the “deacon”
Thanks for sharing. Do you mind sharing why you came to that conclusion? It doesn’t do any of us any good for you to say this without explaining why we should believe you.
Thanks for this. I'm so surprised how much pushback in a negative sense especially from "modern" men regarding women as pastors. We have women with theology degrees teaching in universities yet they cannot be priests because of a few passages that may have had something that was going on in Ephesus.
@@m.g.7223 haha yep, thanks for sharing, looking from the outside in like you are, it is pretty wild; but when you’re in that mindset, it’s 100% true. It’s really a lesson about humility!
Please add the title of her book to the notes.
Done thanks
Basically the deacon is a "servant" within the context of the local church. There are two OFFICES...Pastor (Bishop, Overseer) and Deacon (Elder, Presbyter). I understand that
sometimes the Greek seems to be confusing, but the qualifications for those OFFICES are crystal clear; only men may hold those.
Function is a little different. I am a Baptist. We have no female deacons (deaconesses) in our church. That does not mean that our wonderful ladies do not render
important services. When I had COVID, the Pastor's wife shopped for me and brought me groceries. She visits the sick, assists and teaches our ladies and children,
prepares fellowship functions, and so on. But she does not hold the OFFICE of Deacon(ness). She is a blessing to us all as a servant in the church.
PHIL. 1:1 is best understood as Bishop (office of) and Deacons (functionaries as servants to the Bishop). This is not rocket science.
This is why in ROM. 16:1 Phoebe is best rendered "servant".
Lord bless you....
Thanks for sharing!
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou you are welcome. I also should add this....
Within the church, men preach and teach the flock. However, that does not mean that a mature Christian (meaning well taught) woman can not
assist a new male convert privately; for example if she has been a believer for years and her husband is newly converted.
As well, women as well as men have an unction from the Lord to share the gospel message with others in their daily lives.
I have a personal experience I can share with you. I wrote a one hundred page study on the resurrection narratives, reconciling the differences
and "discrepancies" in the four gospel accounts. While working on this project I enlisted the help of a lady friend who was fluent in
New Testament Greek.
In other words, she actually instructed me regarding some key words and phrases as translated in the KJV. She was a tremendous blessing!
Again, God bless...
The evidence presented is interesting, but not authoritative. It's an interesting discussion describing what happened, not a prescription for today. There is better evidence for leading women within the New Testament, along with Paul's qualifications for elders. We have to take all of it to heart and reconcile what it all means - not listening to only one side or the other, but genuinely seek to understand it.
@@TimBunch agreed! Well said
I just read the Amazon reviews. No women priests, just female deaconess etc. Again, the Apostolic Ministry is for certain males, just as St. Paul says. Not even all males qualify.
We literally listed women that were ordained priests in the video…Also, there are no verses in any Biblical text where Paul says the Apostolic ministry is for only males.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYousorry but his epistles to Timothy do denote the qualifications and it speaks them about men.
@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou husband of one wife....translate the Koine. All the Patriarchs were male. The Prophets were male. Christ is a male. The Holy Apostles are male. St. Paul lists the requirements for the Office of the Ministry in two epistles. Only certain males qualify.
She needs to show positive evidence:
- an Early Church Father who wrote of woman priests (heretical sects aside)
- scripture where scripture speaks of women priests.
- an early synod or council where the issue was debated and settled (as the Church did with other disputed matters)
Silence to all of the above.
Worse for Carolyn is she argues against the magisterium of the Church to interpret scripture. She is no authority whatsoever to say the Church is erroring in its doctrine. She thus makes Jesus out to be undependable and liar. The Church - the pillar of Truth, the Bulwark of Truth, where the manifold wisdom of God is made known, and to which Christ PROMISED to send the Holy Spirt to lead it to ALL Truth, has not _universally_ errored. Consistent too, opposing her thought, the Orthodox reject such non-sense. Heretics need to be called out whomever they be. This all stems from the source of all sin, pride.
Why would she need to show evidence of any of that?
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou Because without any of the above, she's wildly speculating and making Jesus out to be a liar. Strong claims need strong proof. She doesn't have any.
_“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”_ (Carl Sagan)
@@TruthHasSpoken what is she speculating about?
It seems you have a very specific interpretation of a passage in the Bible on what Jesus said that not everyone holds. If she is right about what she has said, isn’t it possible that you might just need to update your interpretation?
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou "If she is right about what she has said"
To my first point: She needs to show positive evidence:
- an Early Church Father who wrote of woman priests (heretical sects aside)
- scripture where scripture speaks of women priests.
- an early synod or council where the issue was debated and settled (as the Church did with other disputed matters)
All she has is her 21st century conjecture, trying to fit her theology back in time.
"you have a very specific interpretation of a passage in the Bible"
Not just one passage. Scripture is explicit:
Christ is the head of his Church (Col 1: 18)
Christ''s Church is the pillar of truth (1 Tim 3: 15)
Christ's Church is the bulwark of truth. (1 Tim 3: 15)
Christ's Church is where the manifold wisdom of God is made known. (Eph 3: 10)
*Christ PROMISED to lead it to ALL Truth.* (Jn 16: 13)
Christ PROMISED that he would NEVER leave it. (Mt 28: 20)
Christ PROMISED that the gates of hell would not prevail (it will not teach doctrinal error) ; (Mt 16: 18)
In the world of Carolyn, Christ utterly failed to lead his Church to ALL TRUTH. Either he was a horrible teacher or the disciples horrible listeners.
There is no teaching tradition anywhere in the world in the first 1000+ years of women priests. To name a few, not in:
- the Holy Land
- North Africa
- Turkey
- Italy
- Spain
- France
- England
- India
(just how could the Church errored so universally if the disciples taught such and the Church never met in a council or synod to debate the issue??)
All of which is 100% consistent with scripture.
For all the reasons above, her conjecture, a heresy, can be rejected. We should pray for her.
@TruthHasSpoken freaking cheers dude. Well said.
So just a giant argument from silence then... 🙄
We mentioned a number of explicit statements of women’s ordination. What argument from silence are you referring to?
There are many distinctive deacons in the Anglican church
The Bible doesnt change... people can practice heresy
Amen!
Do what thou wilt, this is the entirety of the law! Great interview! The servants of hell thank you!
Ordained as deacons, not priests
As deacon and priest
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYoubut... Whatever that meant and whereever It has happened
@@magnobraga4619 huh?
🤦♂
Thanks for sharing. Mind explaining further what you are face palming about?
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou The following quotations from the Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that *these women were not ordained.*
The Fathers rejected women’s ordination, not because it was incompatible with Christian culture, but because it was incompatible with Christian faith. Thus, together with biblical declarations, the teaching of the Fathers on this issue formed the tradition of the Church that taught that priestly ordination was reserved to men. *This teaching has not changed.*
Firmilian
“[T]here suddenly arose among us a certain woman, who in a state of ecstasy announced herself as a prophetess and acted as if filled with the Holy Ghost. . . . Through the deceptions and illusions of the demon, this woman had previously set about deluding believers in a variety of ways. Among the means by which she had deluded many was daring to pretend that, through proper invocation, she consecrated bread and performed the Eucharist” (collected in Cyprian’s Letters 74:10 [A.D. 253]).
Hippolytus
“When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all” (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215]).
Tertullian
“It is not permitted for a woman to speak in the church [1 Cor 14:34-35], but neither [is it permitted her] . . . to offer, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say sacerdotal office” (The Veiling of Virgins 9 [A.D. 206]).
Irenaeus
Irenaeus describes the bizarre rites of the Gnostic Marcus in great detail, including a section in which women act as priests“ (Against Heresies 1:13:2 [A.D. 189]).
To say that women were ordained in the early church is not only factually incorrect but it's heretical.
- No adult converts were baptized in the nude.
- Scrolls found at the Dead Sea were Gnostic.
- The Bible is filled with female prophets (prophetess). In the New Testament Anna is described as a prophetess in Luke 2: 36-38. To say that women in the Catholic Church were oppressed is a fallacy.
-The role of women in the Church could not be ordained as Priest(ess) because the Priests are given the name Father, which means teacher. The same as women were not given the title of Rabbi as Rabbi also means teacher (Father). Orthodox Jewish institutions do not accept women as the role of Rabbi, but like the Catholic Church women do have other leadership roles.
- Galatians 3: 28 Paul speaks for our justification through faith, not our roles in the Church.
-It's a fallacy to say women don't have leadership roles in the Catholic Church. She's parroting an argument that doesn't exist, but only popular among feminists. Only men can hold hierarchical positions, while only women can hold the apostolic titles of Sister (Reverend) and Nun (Mother, Mother Superior, Reverend Mother). However, all other positions can be held by both men and women.
"Sister Raffaella Petrini, the first-ever female secretary general of the Vatican City State, responsible for the territory’s health care system, police force and main source of revenue, the Vatican Museums."
In fact, in 2023 more women hold top decision-making positions than at any time in the Vatican's history.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou The following quotations from the Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that *these women were not ordained.*
The Fathers rejected women’s ordination, not because it was incompatible with Christian culture, but because it was incompatible with Christian faith. Thus, together with biblical declarations, the teaching of the Fathers on this issue formed the tradition of the Church that taught that priestly ordination was reserved to men. *This teaching has not changed.*
Firmilian
“[T]here suddenly arose among us a certain woman, who in a state of ecstasy announced herself as a prophetess and acted as if filled with the Holy Ghost. . . . Through the deceptions and illusions of the demon, this woman had previously set about deluding believers in a variety of ways. Among the means by which she had deluded many was daring to pretend that, through proper invocation, she consecrated bread and performed the Eucharist” (collected in Cyprian’s Letters 74:10 [A.D. 253]).
Hippolytus
“When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all” (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215]).
Tertullian
“It is not permitted for a woman to speak in the church [1 Cor 14:34-35], but neither [is it permitted her] . . . to offer, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say sacerdotal office” (The Veiling of Virgins 9 [A.D. 206]).
Irenaeus
Irenaeus describes the bizarre rites of the Gnostic Marcus in great detail, including a section in which women act as priests“ (Against Heresies 1:13:2 [A.D. 189]).
To say that women were ordained in the early church is not only factually incorrect but it's heretical.
- No adult converts were baptized in the nude.
- Scrolls found at the Dead Sea were Gnostic.
- The Bible is filled with female prophets (prophetess). In the New Testament Anna is described as a prophetess in Luke 2: 36-38. To say that women in the Catholic Church were oppressed is a fallacy.
-The role of women in the Church could not be ordained as Priest(ess) because the Priests are given the name Father, which means teacher. The same as women were not given the title of Rabbi as Rabbi also means teacher (Father). Orthodox Jewish institutions do not accept women as the role of Rabbi, but like the Catholic Church women do have other leadership roles.
- Galatians 3: 28 Paul speaks for our justification through faith, not our roles in the Church.
-It's a fallacy to say women don't have leadership roles in the Catholic Church. She's parroting an argument that doesn't exist, but only popular among feminists. Only men can hold hierarchical positions, while only women can hold the apostolic titles of Sister (Reverend) and Nun (Mother, Mother Superior, Reverend Mother). However, all other positions can be held by both men and women.
"Sister Raffaella Petrini, the first-ever female secretary general of the Vatican City State, responsible for the territory’s health care system, police force and main source of revenue, the Vatican Museums."
In fact, in 2023 more women hold top decision-making positions than at any time in the Vatican's history.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou The following quotations from the Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that *these women were not ordained.*
The Fathers rejected women’s ordination, not because it was incompatible with Christian culture, but because it was incompatible with Christian faith. Thus, together with biblical declarations, the teaching of the Fathers on this issue formed the tradition of the Church that taught that priestly ordination was reserved to men. *This teaching has not changed.*
Firmilian
“[T]here suddenly arose among us a certain woman, who in a state of ecstasy announced herself as a prophetess and acted as if filled with the Holy Ghost. . . . Through the deceptions and illusions of the demon, this woman had previously set about deluding believers in a variety of ways. Among the means by which she had deluded many was daring to pretend that, through proper invocation, she consecrated bread and performed the Eucharist” (collected in Cyprian’s Letters 74:10 [A.D. 253]).
Hippolytus
“When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all” (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215]).
Tertullian
“It is not permitted for a woman to speak in the church [1 Cor 14:34-35], but neither [is it permitted her] . . . to offer, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say sacerdotal office” (The Veiling of Virgins 9 [A.D. 206]).
Irenaeus
Irenaeus describes the bizarre rites of the Gnostic Marcus in great detail, including a section in which women act as priests“ (Against Heresies 1:13:2 [A.D. 189]).